Jun 24, 2023 City Council on 2023-06-24 8:30 AM (City Council Retreat Continued - Day 2)

SO GOOD MORNING. IT IS SATURDAY, JUNE 24TH, 2023 AT 8:33 A.M.

[00:00:07]

[1. ITEM FOR DISCUSSION]

SO ID TWO, THREE.

ONE, TWO, TWO, THREE.

RECEIVE TRAINING AND HOLD DISCUSSION REGARDING CITY OF DENTON CODE OF ORDINANCES.

CHAPTER TWO, ARTICLE 11 ETHICS AND THEN ALSO ID 2356202 RETREAT WORKSHOP AND DISCUSSION FACILITATED BY STRATEGIC GOVERNMENT RESOURCES, AKA SGR INC AND GIVE STAFF DIRECTION AND PRIORITIES REGARDING GOVERNANCE, CHALLENGES, POLICY DEVELOPMENT AND SPECIFIC GOALS FOR 2023, 2024 FISCAL YEAR CONCERNING ANY AND ALL OPERATION OF CITY OF DENTON CITY GOVERNMENT.

YES. YES.

SO THIS IS THE CITY'S ETHICS ORDINANCE TRAINING, WHICH YOU'RE ALL REQUIRED TO TAKE, EXCEPT FOR RYAN AND AMY.

SO AND THEN ANNUAL.

SO THIS IS A REDESIGN TRAINING.

YOU PROBABLY HAVE TAKEN THE TWO HOUR ONE IN THE PAST, BUT THIS ONE IS GOING TO BE ABOUT 15 MINUTES.

SO TODAY WE'LL BE COVERING THE ETHICAL EXPECTATIONS LAID OUT BY THE CITY'S ETHICS ORDINANCE, THE ORDINANCES, MANDATES AND PROHIBITIONS, HOW CITY OFFICIALS SUBJECT TO THE ORDINANCE CAN REQUEST CLARIFICATION ON ITS APPLICATION AND A QUICK OVERVIEW OF WHAT HAPPENS IF AN ETHICS COMPLAINT IS SUBMITTED AGAINST YOU AS A CITY OFFICIAL. SO DIVE RIGHT IN.

TO BEGIN. THE CITY'S CITY'S ETHICS ORDINANCE WAS ADOPTED IN 2018 AND IS EXPECTED TO BE AMENDED IN JULY OF 2023.

SO BASED ON THAT DIRECTION, I'LL INCLUDE THAT SOME OF THAT WILL BE INCLUDED IN THIS.

THE ETHICS CODE IS INTENDED TO FOSTER AN ENVIRONMENT OF INTEGRITY FOR THOSE THAT SERVE THE CITY OF DENTON AND ITS RESIDENTS BY ENSURING THAT DECISION MAKERS PROVIDE RESPONSIBLE STEWARDSHIP OF CITY RESOURCES AND ASSETS AND PROVIDING BEHAVIORAL GUIDELINES AND REQUIREMENTS.

A KEY GOAL OF THE ETHICS ORDINANCE IS TO FURTHER THE PUBLIC'S TRUST IN THOSE WHO GOVERN THEM.

MORE SPECIFICALLY, THE ETHICS ORDINANCE OUTLINES SIX ASPIRATIONAL EXPECTATIONS.

THESE EXPECTATIONS CANNOT BE USED AS THE BASIS OF AN ETHICS COMPLAINT, BUT THEY ARE INTENDED TO GUIDE CITY OFFICIALS IN CARRYING OUT THEIR DUTIES, AND THEY INCLUDE CONDUCTING YOURSELF IN A MANNER THAT FOSTERS PUBLIC TRUST, PERFORMING YOUR PUBLIC DUTIES WITH PERSONAL AND ORGANIZATIONAL INTEGRITY, AVOIDING BEHAVIOR THAT MIGHT CALL YOUR MOTIVES INTO QUESTION AND ERODE PUBLIC CONFIDENCE.

PLACING THE INTERESTS AND CONCERNS OF DENTON'S RESIDENTS ABOVE YOUR OWN VALUING HONESTY, TRUSTWORTHINESS, DILIGENCE, OBJECTIVITY, FAIRNESS, DUE PROCESS, EFFICIENCY AND PRUDENCE. AND BALANCING TRANSPARENCY WITH THE DUTY TO PROTECT PERSONAL PRIVACY AND PRESERVE ANY CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION YOU'VE ENTRUSTED WITH.

SO WHILE THE REST OF THIS TRAINING WILL FOCUS ON SPECIFIC BEHAVIORS THAT CITY OFFICIALS MUST COMPLY WITH, THE EXPECTATIONS ARE PERHAPS THE MOST IMPORTANT SECTION OF THE ETHICS ORDINANCE. IF YOU EVER FIND YOURSELF QUESTIONING IF A SPECIFIC ACTION OR INACTION MIGHT BE ETHICAL, FIRST ASK YOURSELF IF IT WOULD ALIGN WITH THE EXPECTATIONS.

IT IS IMPORTANT TO REALIZE THAT THESE EXPECTATIONS ARE NOT ONLY FOCUSED ON THE WAY THINGS ARE, BUT ALSO ON THE WAY THEY APPEAR.

SO THE OFFICIAL HAS THE POSITION OF PRIVILEGE WITHIN THEIR COMMUNITY THAT THEY MUST RESPECT.

SERVING YOUR COMMUNITY AS A CITY OFFICIAL IS AN HONOR THAT REQUIRES INTEGRITY AND DEDICATION IN GENERAL.

YOU CAN THINK ABOUT THE CITY'S ETHICS CODE AS A STOPLIGHT IN SOME INSTANCES.

THE CODE CLEARLY PROHIBITS SPECIFIC BEHAVIORS OR CREATES A RED LIGHT.

HOWEVER, IN OTHER AREAS, THE CODE CREATES BROADER PROHIBITIONS OR YELLOW LIGHTS.

NO LIGHTS MAY INDICATE THAT A CITY OFFICIAL SHOULD THOUGHTFULLY AND CAUTIOUSLY CONSIDER IF THE ACTION OR INACTION IS ETHICAL BASED ON THE CITY'S EXPECTATIONS AS THEY PROCEED.

THROUGHOUT THIS PRESENTATION, I'LL BE CALLING OUT WHICH PARTS OF THE CODE ARE RED LIGHTS VERSUS YELLOW LIGHTS TO HELP PROVIDE GUIDANCE.

NOW THAT WE'VE COVERED THE BASICS OF THE ETHICS, ETHICAL EXPECTATIONS AND GENERAL GUIDANCE, I'LL GET INTO MORE SPECIFICS.

SO THE ETHICS ORDINANCE INCLUDES THREE MANDATES AND NINE PROHIBITIONS THAT COVER DIFFERENT ACTIONS OR BEHAVIORS THAT THE CITY CITY OFFICIAL MAY TAKE.

WE'LL BRIEFLY COVER THEM OVER THE NEXT COUPLE OF SLIDES.

BEGINNING WITH MANDATES.

THIS ORDINANCE REQUIRES THAT CITY OFFICIALS DISCLOSE CERTAIN BUSINESS RELATIONSHIPS IF THEY ARE RELEVANT TO A PENDING MATTER.

SPECIFICALLY, IF A BUSINESS ENTITY WITH A PENDING MATTER IS OWNED BY A CITY OFFICIAL PARTNER, THE CITY OFFICIAL MUST DISCLOSE THIS RELATIONSHIP TO EITHER THE CITY OR THE CITY SECRETARY AND THE CITY AUDITOR.

AT LEAST ONE BUSINESS DAY BEFORE THE MEETING WHERE THE PENDING MATTER WILL BE DELIBERATED.

ALL DISCLOSURES WILL BE PROVIDED TO THE RELEVANT BODY BEFORE THE DELIBERATIONS OCCUR.

THIS DISCLOSURE IS A YELLOW LIGHT IN THE ETHICS CODE.

AS SO EVEN THOUGH CITY OFFICIALS ARE ALLOWED TO DELIBERATE ON THESE MATTERS FOR THE ETHICS ORDINANCE, IT CALLS OUT THAT THERE MIGHT BE A RISK THAT THIS TYPE OF BUSINESS INTERESTS MAY RECEIVE UNFAIR TREATMENT FROM THE CITY OFFICIAL.

IN ADDITION, IT REQUIRES THAT CITY OFFICIALS COMPLY WITH ANY FINANCIAL DISCLOSURES REQUIRED BY TEXAS STATE LAW AND THAT CITY OFFICIALS REPORT ANY PERSON THAT THEY KNOW HAS VIOLATED THE ETHICS ORDINANCE.

THESE MANDATES ARE HEADLIGHTS AND ARE NOT AS NOT REPORTING KNOWN VIOLATIONS IS ITSELF CONSIDERED TO BE A VIOLATION OF THE ORDINANCE.

SO NOW I'M GOING TO MOVE ON TO PROHIBITIONS OR THE POTENTIAL BEHAVIORS THAT ARE SPECIFICALLY CONSIDERED VIOLATIONS OF THE ORDINANCE.

BEGINNING WITH CONFLICTS OF INTEREST.

ETHICAL BEST PRACTICES SUGGEST THAT A CITY OFFICIAL RECUSE FROM DELIBERATING ON A PENDING MATTER IF THEY OR THEIR RELATIVE HAVE A PERSONAL OR ECONOMIC INTEREST IN A

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THIS GENERAL GUIDANCE IS A YELLOW LIGHT AS IT'S INTENDED TO DRAW ATTENTION TO THE RISK OF CONFLICT OF INTEREST.

HOWEVER, I SHOULD NOTE THAT WHILE THIS IS GOOD GUIDANCE FOR CITY OFFICIALS, THIS GENERAL PROHIBITION IS NOT ACTUALLY IN THE CITY'S ETHICS ORDINANCE.

UH, DENTON'S ORDINANCE DOES INCLUDE SOME RED LIGHTS AND SPECIFICALLY DEFINES THE FOLLOWING AS CONFLICTS OF INTEREST.

OWNING 5% OR MORE OF A BUSINESS, ENTITIES, VOTING SHARES OR STOCK.

OWNING $600 OR MORE OF A BUSINESS ENTITIES.

FAIR MARKET VALUE.

OWNING $600 OR MORE OF THE FAIR MARKET VALUE OF REAL PROPERTY.

RECEIVING $600 OR MORE IN INCOME FROM A BUSINESS ENTITY SERVING ON THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS OR AN OFFICER OF A BUSINESS ENTITY OR NONPROFIT.

AND THEN THE NEW ONE IN JULY THAT WILL WILL BE BROUGHT BEFORE YOU WOULD BE HAVING SOLICITED, RECEIVED OR ACCEPTED AN OFFER OF EMPLOYMENT FROM A BUSINESS ENTITY OR PERSON IN THE LAST 12 MONTHS.

SO IF YOU HAVE A CONFLICT OF INTEREST AS DEFINED ON THE SLIDE WITH THE PENDING MATTER ON AN AGENDA, YOU ARE REQUIRED TO RECUSE YOURSELF FROM THE DISCUSSION AND SUBMIT AN AFFIDAVIT OF ABSTENTION TO THE CITY AUDITOR, WHICH CAN ALSO BE DONE THROUGH THE CITY SECRETARY'S OFFICE.

A PENDING MATTER INCLUDES AN APPLICATION SEEKING APPROVAL, APPROVAL OR AUTHORIZATION FOR A PROPOSAL TO ENTER INTO A CONTRACT OR A CASE INVOLVING INVOLVING THE CITY THAT IS OR MAY BE BEFORE A CIVIL, CRIMINAL OR ADMINISTRATIVE TRIBUNAL.

FURTHER, IT IS A VIOLATION OF THE ORDINANCE FOR A CURRENT CITY OFFICIALS TO REPRESENT A PERSON, GROUP OR ENTITY BEFORE A CITY BOARD OR COMMISSION FOR COMPENSATION.

THIS PROHIBITION ALSO APPLIES TO FORMER CITY OFFICIALS FOR ONE YEAR AFTER TERMINATION OF THEIR OFFICIAL DUTIES.

SIMILARLY, FOR FORMER SORRY, FORMER CITY OFFICIALS ARE PROHIBITED FROM PERFORMING COMPENSATED WORK ON A CITY CONTRACT OR ARRANGEMENT IF THEY SUBSTANTIALLY PARTICIPATED IN THE NEGOTIATION, AWARD OR ADMINISTRATION OF THE CONTRACT, UNLESS THAT PARTICIPATION WAS LIMITED TO DELIBERATIONS.

SO NEXT, THE ETHICS ORDINANCE PROHIBITS A CITY OFFICIAL OR THEIR RELATIVE FROM ACCEPTING ANY GIFT THAT MIGHT REASONABLY INFLUENCE A CITY OFFICIAL IN DISCHARGING THEIR OFFICIAL DUTIES. THIS IS A GENERAL PROHIBITION THAT ACTS AS A YELLOW LIGHT FOR CITY OFFICIALS.

THE ORDINANCE DOES ALSO INCLUDE GIFT RELATED RED LIGHTS.

SO SPECIFICALLY, CITY OFFICIAL CANNOT ACCEPT A SINGLE GIFT VALUED MORE THAN $50 OR MULTIPLE GIFTS WITH A TOTAL VALUE OF MORE THAN $200.

IN GENERAL, A GIFT IS CONSIDERED TO BE ANYTHING OF MONETARY VALUE, SUCH AS CASH, PROPERTY SERVICES, MEALS, ENTERTAINMENT OR TRAVEL RELATED EXPENSES.

IF A GIFT IS ACCEPTED, THE CITY OFFICIAL MAY REMEDY THE VIOLATION BY PROMPTLY DONATING IT OR REIMBURSING THE GIFT GIVER.

THE ACTUAL OR FAIR MARKET VALUE OF THE GIFT IF GIFT IS ACCEPTED.

THE CITY OFFICIAL MUST DISCLOSE THE ACCEPTANCE AND THE REMEDY BY FILING A DISCLOSURE WITH THE CITY AUDITOR.

THE ORDINANCE DOES ALLOW CERTAIN EXCEPTIONS TO THE GIFT PROHIBITION, SO THAT WOULD MEAN THAT THOSE ARE ACTUALLY GREEN LIGHTS AND THEY INCLUDE LAWFUL CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS, EXPENSES RELATED TO A CITY'S CITY.

OFFICIALS TRAVEL TO A CONFERENCE OR OTHER TRAINING EVENT THAT'S CONNECTED TO THE CITY, EXPENSES RELATED TO APPEARANCES AT NONPROFIT OR COMMUNITY EVENTS RELATED TO CITY BUSINESS, COMPLIMENTARY ATTENDANCE AT FUNDRAISING EVENTS OR HOSPITALITY FUNCTIONS, COMPLIMENTARY OR PROMOTIONAL COPIES OF TRADE PUBLICATIONS OR CLOTHING ITEMS, OR GIFTS THAT ARE GIVEN DUE TO A PERSONAL, FAMILIAL OR PROFESSIONAL RELATIONSHIP THAT THAT'S REGARDLESS OF THE CITY OFFICIAL CITY RELATED DUTIES.

ANY ITEMS RECEIVED THAT FALL UNDER ONE OF THOSE EXCEPTIONS DOES NOT NEED TO BE DISCLOSED.

HOWEVER, CITY OFFICIAL MAY CHOOSE TO DISCLOSE IT IF THEY WOULD LIKE TO.

NEXT, IT'S A VIOLATION OF THE ORDINANCE FOR A CITY OFFICIAL TO MISUSE THE INFLUENCE OR INFORMATION GAINED DUE TO THEIR OFFICIAL CITY POSITION.

SPECIFICALLY, A CITY OFFICIAL MAY NOT USE THEIR INFLUENCE TO SECURE SPECIAL PRIVILEGES OR TREATMENT FOR A PERSON, GROUP OR BUSINESS ORGANIZATION BEYOND WHAT IS NORMALLY AVAILABLE, OR TO IMPLY THAT THEY CAN DO SUCH THINGS.

WHILE THIS IS A SPECIFIC PROHIBITION, IT IS A YELLOW LIGHT, AS IT'S NOT MEANT TO PROHIBIT A CITY OFFICIAL FROM PROVIDING INDIVIDUALS, GROUPS OR BUSINESSES WITH INFORMATION ON HOW THE CITY CITY PROCESSES WORK SO THEY MAY MORE EASILY ACCESS NORMALLY AVAILABLE SERVICES.

FOR THAT REASON, CITY OFFICIALS SHOULD PROCEED CAUTIOUSLY AND THOUGHTFULLY WHEN TRYING TO HELP THE PUBLIC WITH SPECIFIC CONCERNS.

SPECIFICALLY, CITY OFFICIALS SHOULD BE CAUTIOUS WHEN STATING THAT THEY CAN'T.

WHAT THEY CAN DO TO ENSURE A CONCERN IS ADDRESSED.

FURTHER, A CITY OFFICIAL MAY NOT STATE OR IMPLY THAT THEY ARE ACTING AS A REPRESENTATIVE OF THE CITY UNLESS THEY HAVE BEEN AUTHORIZED TO DO SO BY THE CITY COUNCIL.

AND IT IS A VIOLATION OF THE ORDINANCE FOR A CITY OFFICIAL, EITHER CURRENT OR FORMER, TO USE CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION GAINED THROUGH THEIR OFFICIAL CAPACITY TO ADVANCE THE PERSONAL OR PRIVATE FINANCIAL INTERESTS OF THEMSELVES OR ANYONE ELSE.

THESE ARE RED LIGHTS, AS THERE ARE NO INSTANCES WHERE MISREPRESENTING YOURSELF AS AN AUTHORIZED CITY REPRESENTATIVE OR USING CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION FOR PERSONAL OR PRIVATE INTEREST WOULD BE ETHICAL.

PER THE ORDINANCE LAST, IT'S A VIOLATION OF THE ORDINANCE FOR A CITY OFFICIAL TO ABUSE THE CITY'S RESOURCES OR THE POWER OR PRIVILEGES GRANTED BY THEIR OFFICIAL POSITION. SPECIFICALLY, A CITY OFFICIAL SHOULD NOT USE REQUEST OR ALLOW THE USE OF CITY RESOURCES SUCH AS FACILITIES, PERSONNEL, EQUIPMENT, SOFTWARE OR STAFF TIME FOR PRIVATE

[00:10:07]

WELL, WHILE THIS IS A SPECIFIC PROHIBITION, IT'S ALSO A YELLOW LIGHT, AS IT DOES NOT CLEARLY HAVE CLEARLY DEFINED THRESHOLDS.

AND THERE ARE INSTANCES WHERE A CITY OFFICIAL CAN ETHICALLY USE CITY RESOURCES SUCH AS RENTING A CITY FACILITY, THE PUBLICLY AVAILABLE PRICE.

ON THE OTHER HAND, IT IS A VIOLATION OF THE ORDINANCE FOR A CITY OFFICIAL TO HARASS OR DISCRIMINATE AGAINST A PERSON BASED ON THEIR ETHNICITY, RACE, GENDER, GENDER IDENTITY, SEXUAL ORIENTATION, MARITAL OR PARENTAL STATUS OR RELIGION.

IT'S ALSO A VIOLATION TO INTERFERE WITH ANY CITY RELATED CRIMINAL OR ADMINISTRATIVE INVESTIGATION, INCLUDING PERSUADING OR COERCING SOMEONE ELSE TO WITHHOLD THEIR COOPERATION. THESE ARE RED LIGHTS, AS THERE IS NO INSTANCE WHERE HARASSMENT, DISCRIMINATION OR INTERFERING WITH AN INVESTIGATION WOULD BE CONSIDERED ETHICAL FOR THE ORDINANCE. ALL RIGHT.

NOW THAT WE HAVE A BRIEF UNDERSTANDING OF THE EXPECTATIONS, MANDATES AND PROHIBITIONS OUTLINED IN THE ORDINANCE, IF YOU EVER COME UPON A SITUATION WHERE YOU NEED ADDITIONAL GUIDANCE, YOU HAVE A FEW OPTIONS.

FIRST OFF, YOU JUST NEED HELP FINDING A SECTION OF THE ORDINANCE RELATED TO A PARTICULAR SITUATION OR AN ANSWER ABOUT HOW TO SUBMIT A DISCLOSURE OR A COMPLAINT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. YOU CAN REACH OUT TO ME.

SECOND, IF YOU HAVE A PERSONAL ATTORNEY, THEY MIGHT BE ABLE TO PROVIDE YOU WITH AN INTERPRETATION OF THE ETHICS ORDINANCE TO HELP YOU DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT TO RECUSE YOURSELF IN A GIVEN SITUATION.

AND THEN FINALLY, YOU CAN ALSO REQUEST THAT THE BOARD OF ETHICS ISSUE AN ADVISORY OPINION WHICH IS INTENDED TO ANSWER A QUESTION ABOUT COMPLIANCE WITH THE ETHICS ORDINANCE IN A PARTICULAR SITUATION.

THE BIGGEST ADVANTAGE OF AN ADVISORY OPINION IS THAT A CITY OFFICIAL MAY USE IT AS AN AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE TO A SUBMITTED ETHICS COMPLAINT IF THEY RELIED UPON IT IN GOOD FAITH.

TO RECEIVE AN ADVISORY OPINION, A CITY OFFICIAL MUST SUBMIT THE REQUEST IN WRITING TO THE CITY AUDITOR, INCLUDING RELEVANT DETAILS OF THE SITUATION IN QUESTION.

THE CITY AUDITOR WILL THEN COMMUNICATE THE REQUEST TO THE BOARD OF ETHICS CHAIR, WHO ASSIGNS IT TO A PANEL OF THREE BOARD OF ETHICS MEMBERS FOR REVIEW PANEL HAS 30 DAYS TO ISSUE THE ADVISORY OPINION ONCE THE REQUEST IS RECEIVED.

HOWEVER, WE CURRENTLY TRY TO ISSUE THOSE IN ABOUT TEN BUSINESS DAYS.

FINALLY. THE BOARD OF ETHICS IS PRIMARY FUNCTION IS TO PROCESS ETHICS COMPLAINTS.

THERE ARE FOUR PHASES OF THE ETHICS COMPLAINT PROCESS THAT I'LL BRIEFLY RUN THROUGH.

ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ABOUT THE ETHICS COMPLAINT PROCESS IS AVAILABLE ON THE CITY'S BOARD OF ETHICS WEB PAGE OR CAN BE REQUESTED FROM ME.

SO FIRST INITIATION.

DURING THIS PERIOD, AN INDIVIDUAL SUBMITS AN ETHICS COMPLAINT USING THE PRESCRIBED FORM TO THE CITY AUDITOR.

THIS COMPLAINT FORM SHOULD BE ACCOMPANIED BY ANY EVIDENCE SUCH AS IMAGES, VIDEOS OR DOCUMENTATION THAT THE COMPLAINANT HAS TO SUBMIT THEIR ALLEGATIONS TO SUPPORT THEIR ALLEGATIONS AND MUST BE SWORN IN FRONT OF A NOTARY.

THE CITY AUDITOR THEN THEN DETERMINES IF THE ETHICS COMPLAINT IS ADMINISTRATIVELY COMPLETE, BUT DOES NOT MAKE ANY JUDGMENT ON THE COMPLAINTS MERITS.

IF A COMPLAINT IS ACCEPTED, A COPY IS FORWARDED TO THE COMPLAINANT, THE RESPONDENT, WHICH WOULD BE THE CITY OFFICIAL AND THE BOARD OF ETHICS CHAIR WHO ASSIGNS IT TO A PRELIMINARY ASSESSMENT PANEL. DURING THE PRELIMINARY ASSESSMENT PHASE, A PANEL OF THREE BOARD OF ETHICS MEMBERS REVIEWS THE SUBMITTED ETHICS COMPLAINT AND DETERMINES IF IT IS ACTIONABLE OR BASELESS. A COMPLAINT IS ACTIONABLE IF, ON ITS FACE, THE BEHAVIORS ALLEGED IN THE COMPLAINT WOULD CONSTITUTE A VIOLATION OF THE ORDINANCE.

THE PANEL MAY ALSO RECOMMEND THAT A HEARING BE HELD TO DETERMINE IF A COMPLAINT IS FRIVOLOUS INSTEAD OF DETERMINING IF IT IS ACTIONABLE OR BASELESS.

THE OUTCOME OF THE PRELIMINARY ASSESSMENT IS COMMUNICATED TO THE COMPLAINANT AND RESPONDENT BY THE CITY AUDITOR.

IF THE COMPLAINT IS DETERMINED TO BE BASELESS, THE PROCESS STOPS.

THOUGH THE COMPLAINANT MAY SUBMIT A WRITTEN APPEAL WITHIN TEN BUSINESS DAYS, WHICH WOULD THEN INITIATE THE HEARING PHASE.

DURING THE HEARING PHASE, THE BOARD OF ETHICS SCHEDULES AN EVIDENTIARY HEARING AND MAY REQUEST ADDITIONAL DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE OR ISSUE SUBPOENAS TO REQUIRE INDIVIDUALS TO TESTIFY. THE COMPLAINANT MUST ATTEND AND TESTIFY AT THIS HEARING AND MAY ALSO PRESENT ANY ADDITIONAL EVIDENCE THEY HAVE GATHERED.

IN ADDITION, THE RESPONDENT OR THE CITY OFFICIAL MAY PROVIDE TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE FOR THE BOARD'S CONSIDERATION.

BOTH THE COMPLAINANT AND RESPONDENT HAVE A RIGHT TO BE REPRESENTED BY LEGAL COUNSEL AT THE EVIDENTIARY HEARING, AND THEN BASED ON THAT HEARING, THE BOARD WILL DETERMINE IF A VIOLATION OF THE ORDINANCE HAS OCCURRED.

AND IF THEY DO SO, THEY MAY ISSUE A SANCTION.

ONCE THE BOARD HAS DECIDED ON THE ETHICS COMPLAINT, THE COMPLAINANT AND RESPONDENT BOTH HAVE FIVE BUSINESS DAYS TO SUBMIT ANY NEW EVIDENCE AND REQUEST A RECONSIDERATION IN WRITING WITH THE CITY AUDITOR.

THE BOARD OF ETHICS CHAIR WILL REVIEW THIS RECONSIDERATION REQUEST AND THEN IS ABLE TO UNILATERALLY DETERMINE IF A NEW HEARING IS WARRANTED BASED ON THE NEW EVIDENCE.

IF, DURING THE EVIDENTIARY HEARING, THE BOARD OF ETHICS FINDS THAT A VIOLATION OF THE ETHICS ORDINANCE HAS OCCURRED, THEY MAY ISSUE ONE OF FOUR SANCTIONS TO CITY OFFICIALS BASED ON THEIR PERCEIVED INTENT AND THE SUCCESS OR THE SERIOUSNESS OF THE VIOLATION.

THIS DECISION PROCESS IS GENERALLY ILLUSTRATED IN THE DECISION MATRIX MATRIX ON THE SLIDE.

IF THE BOARD DECIDES TO IMPOSE A SANCTION, THE OFFICIAL WILL BE NOTIFIED WITHIN TEN DAYS BY THE CITY AUDITOR.

AND THAT'S THE END. SO YOU DID IT.

[00:15:03]

AND SO IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS, I CAN ANSWER THEM PROBABLY.

SO ANY QUESTIONS FOR MADISON? SEEING NONE. AWESOME.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MAYOR.

COUNCIL MEMBER. MCGEE SAID HE WOULD BE.

SO WE GET STARTED AT NOON.

ROLL RIGHT INTO WE CAN.

I'M READY FOR Y'ALL.

WHAT? HOWEVER YOU WANT TO PROCEED, LET'S DO IT.

OKAY. AND EVERYBODY YOU SIGN IN, YOU ARE REQUIRED TO.

YES, I THINK SO.

SO WE'RE GOING TO LEARN HOW TO BE MORE LIKE KILLEEN.

NO, WE'RE GOING TO LEARN GOOD LESSONS USING THEM AS AN EXAMPLE OF, IN SOME CASES, WHAT NOT TO DO.

OKAY. SO LET'S GET THROUGH ALL OF THIS.

WELL, THE FIRST THING WE'RE GOING TO DO IS JUST KIND OF TOUCH.

WELL, OKAY, LET ME BACK UP.

RON WOKE UP WITH VERTIGO, SO HE WILL NOT BE HERE TODAY.

SO. ALL. YES.

SO I ASKED HIM, CAN I CAN I TAKE ANYTHING? CAN I BRING ANYTHING? AND HE SAYS HE'S GOING TO CONTINUE TO TRY, BUT HE'S GOT VERTIGO.

MAY CALL IN A PRESCRIPTION.

SO IT'S PROBABLY JUST GOING TO BE ME TODAY.

BUT WHAT I WANTED TO DO IS START WITH LET'S TALK ABOUT IT.

I'M JUST KIDDING. LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT HE SAID LAST NIGHT AND IF THERE WAS ANYTHING YOU WALKED AWAY WITH WITH MORE QUESTIONS ABOUT OR THAT PARTICULARLY RESONATED WITH YOU OR THAT BROUGHT UP ANY THOUGHTS, ISSUES, EMOTIONS THAT WE WANT TO GET THROUGH TODAY BEFORE WE REALLY START DIVING INTO THE SPECIFIC ITEMS THAT YOU ALL REVEALED TO ME IN YOUR PRE INTERVIEWS, IS THERE ANYTHING TAKEAWAYS, THOUGHTS, QUESTIONS, DISAGREEMENTS? NOTHING. I HAVE SOMETHING.

THANK YOU. WHEN I WAS A KID, I.

IN THE THIRD GRADE, I WAS LEARNING MY.

THAT'S WHERE YOUR MORAL COMPASS COMES IN WHEN YOU'RE RIGHT AROUND TEN YEARS OLD.

AND AT THAT TIME, YOU USED TO HAVE TO DO YOUR SPELLING WORDS EVERY FRIDAY.

I REMEMBER YOU HAD SPELLING TESTS EVERY FRIDAY.

AND SO THE TEACHER WOULD KIND OF MOVE AROUND THE ROOM BASED ON WHAT SHE WAS GETTING FROM THE KIDS.

SO I WAS IN GROUP ONE.

EVERYBODY KNOWS WHAT GROUP ONE IS.

IT'S GROUP A, THAT'S THE 80S.

IS THAT THE SMART KID? THAT'S NOT.

WE DON'T SAY IT LIKE THAT.

SEE, I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THAT WAS.

THE TEACHERS CALL IT HI, BABIES.

NOW IN THOSE DAYS. BUT SO ANYWAY, SO WE WE WERE HAVING A SPELLING TEST, AND I GOT MY SPELLING WORD RIGHT.

AND ANOTHER GIRL IN THE CLASSROOM WHO'S ALSO IN THE GROUP ONE, SHE GOT HER WORD WRONG.

AND BECAUSE I ALWAYS THOUGHT SHE THOUGHT SHE WAS SMARTER THAN EVERYBODY, I KIND OF LAUGHED AT HER.

I MEAN, IT WAS KIND OF LIKE A GIGGLE.

AND I POINTED AT HER AND EVERYTHING BEING ALL RUDE OR SNICKER.

YEAH. AND SHE GOT UP OUT OF HER SEAT AND SHE SLAPPED ME.

AND I MEAN, IT WAS LIKE, POW! LIKE THIS? PRETTY MUCH.

BUT I WAS SO SHOCKED.

AND MY TEACHER, SHE DIDN'T SAY A WORD, AND THAT GIRL WENT BACK AND SAT DOWN.

BUT IT LEFT ME THINKING.

SO, OF COURSE, MY MOTHER WAS CALLED AND THE TEACHER SAID, YOU'RE GOING TO TELL YOUR MOM WHAT YOU DID BECAUSE I'M TELLING HER ANYWAY.

SO IF YOU KNEW MY MOTHER, YOU WOULD NOT WANT TO HAVE HER NOTICED.

SO BY THE TIME I GOT AROUND TO TELLING MY MOTHER AND WHEN I DID TELL HER, SHE SAID, YOU KNOW WHAT? THAT'S WHAT YOU GET. THAT IS WHAT YOU GET.

BECAUSE YOU'RE THINKING THAT YOU'RE BETTER THAN OTHER PEOPLE AND THAT'S NOT A RIGHT THE RIGHT WAY TO THINK.

AND NOW YOU'RE GOING TO APOLOGIZE TO HER AND YOU'RE GOING TO YOU'RE GOING TO BE IN A CERTAIN POSITION.

AND SHE WOULD TELL ME, EVERYBODY'S NOT LIKE YOU.

AND SHE AND I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THAT MEANT.

BUT APPARENTLY IT WAS SOMETHING SHE SAW IN ME AND SHE MADE SURE THAT YOU'RE ALWAYS VERY HUMBLE WITH EVERYONE.

AND SO KEEPING THAT.

KEEPING THAT INSIDE OF ME HELPS ME TO BE EXACTLY WHAT I AM.

THAT SAME GIRL THAT I SLEPT, SHE JUST HAPPENED TO BE MY COUSIN.

AND SHE ENDED UP BEING OUR CLASS VALEDICTORIAN IN HIGH SCHOOL AND ENDED UP OVER HERE AT UNIVERSITY OF NORTH TEXAS DOING VERY WELL.

AND I MET HER IN THE CITY BECAUSE I CAME UP HERE TO GO TO TEXAS WOMAN'S UNIVERSITY.

AND IT WAS KIND OF LIKE, THERE SHE IS, YOU KNOW.

[00:20:01]

AND SHE AND I NEVER TALKED ABOUT IT, BUT IT WAS SOMETHING THAT HELPED GUIDE ME TO, YOU KNOW, SAY WHAT I SAY BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO BE AROUND PEOPLE THAT ARE HIGH AND MIGHTY LIKE THAT.

STAY HUMBLE. STAY IN THE IN THE MIDST OF WHAT'S HAPPENING AROUND YOU AND BE THOUGHTFUL.

YOU KNOW, SO SITTING IN THIS ON THIS DAY IS FOR ME GIVES ME A CHANCE TO KIND OF RESONATE THAT.

AND I'M GOING TO BE HERE FOR YOU.

IF I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER, I'M GOING TO CALL IT CMO.

THAT'S WHAT I DO. SO, YOU KNOW, JUST WANT TO PUT THAT OUT THERE AND HOPEFULLY THAT'LL BE A PART OF THE CONVERSATION TODAY.

SO NOT WHERE I THOUGHT THAT STORY WAS GOING.

I THOUGHT YOU SAW 50 YEARS LATER AND YOU SMACKED HER BACK.

SO OUR HIGH SCHOOL REUNION IS THIS YEAR, 40 YEARS.

NOW WE'LL GET HER. YEAH, YEAH, YEAH, I'LL SHOW UP.

ANYWAY, IT WAS A GREAT LET THE AIR OUT OF THE TIRES.

SO, YEAH, SHE'LL NEVER KNOW.

BUT IT KIND OF GOES BACK TO THE SYSTEMS TALK THAT RON GAVE LAST NIGHT WITH THE PREDICTABLE INPUTS AND PREDICTABLE OUTPUTS.

AND SO THINKING ABOUT HOW DO WE CREATE A SYSTEM THAT GIVES US THE MOST PREDICTABILITY SO THAT THOSE INSTANCES OF EMOTION DON'T TAKE OVER AND CREATE OUTPUTS THAT WEREN'T INTENDED NECESSARILY.

BUT IT'S ALSO SO WE ALL UNDERSTAND KIND OF THE SAME PLAYING FIELD.

WE'RE ALL PLAYING BY THE SAME RULES.

WE'RE ALL PLAYING ABOVE BOARD AND REALLY TRYING TO TO HONOR THE POSITION OF THE OTHERS IN THE ROOM.

EVEN WHEN YOU DISAGREE, YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE DISAGREEABLE.

AND SO ALL OF THAT SORT OF SETS THE STAGE FOR A LOT OF WHAT WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT TODAY.

IT IS NOT MY INTENTION TO KEEP YOU HERE ANY LONGER THAN WE HAVE TO BE HERE.

SO DON'T THINK THAT I'M JUST GOING TO DRAG THIS OUT IF WE GET THROUGH IT FASTER OR IF WE NEED TO TAKE MORE TIME.

BUT REALLY, THE GOAL TODAY IS TO GO THROUGH A BIT MORE KIND OF THEORY TALK, BUT THEN TO REALLY DRILL DOWN INTO THE SPECIFIC ISSUES THAT YOU IDENTIFIED AND SOME POTENTIAL SOLUTIONS FOR THOSE.

AND THE OUTCOME ON THE OTHER END OF THAT IS GOING TO BE TO GIVE STAFF SOME DIRECTION AND OR COUNCIL MEMBERS OR WHOMEVER IS THE APPROPRIATE IN YOUR ORGANIZATION SOME DIRECTION ABOUT HOW WE WANT TO PROCEED.

DO WE WANT TO LOOK AT STRENGTHENING OUR GOVERNANCE STANDARDS? DO WE WANT TO LOOK AT ADJUSTING SOME OF OUR PROCESSES AND PROCEDURES? AND DO WE WANT TO SPECIFICALLY ADDRESS SOME OF THE ISSUES THAT HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED? SO WE'VE GOT AN EXERCISE, WE'VE GOT SOME LECTURE, BUT THEN REALLY IT'S GOING TO BE HEARING FROM YOU AND HAVING YOU ALL KIND OF GIVE ME YOUR FEEDBACK SO THAT WE CAN WORK THROUGH SOME POTENTIAL SOLUTIONS.

BECAUSE LIKE I TOLD YOU LAST NIGHT, I WENT THROUGH THIS PROCESS IN KILLEEN AND WITH A BUNCH OF OTHER CITIES THAT I'VE WORKED WITH.

AND EVEN IN THAT CIRCUMSTANCE, WHICH WAS VERY, VERY DIFFICULT BECAUSE THEY IN KILLEEN AT THE TIME, THEY WERE PRETTY PROUD OF BEING DYSFUNCTIONAL.

THEY THOUGHT THAT THAT LOOKED LIKE ACTION.

THEY HAD A KIND OF A BURN IT DOWN MENTALITY WHERE, YOU KNOW, THE MORE THE MORE FIRES YOU START, THE MORE EFFECTIVE YOU LOOK AS A MEMBER.

IF WE WERE GOING THROUGH SOME SOME CHANGE, ALL ELECTION, ALL SORTS OF STUFF HAPPENS.

BUT BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE GOT TO A PLACE WHERE THERE WAS SOME SENSE OF AGREEMENT ON WHAT THE RULES OF ENGAGEMENT SHOULD BE.

DOESN'T MEAN PEOPLE DIDN'T TRY TO USE THEM AS WEAPONS, BUT IT AT LEAST KIND OF BUILT IN SOME TRANSPARENCY AND SOME ACCOUNTABILITY INTO THE SYSTEM.

AND SO ULTIMATELY, THAT'S WHAT ALL OF THIS IS ABOUT.

BUT IT HAS TO SUIT YOU AND IT HAS TO SUIT YOUR PURPOSES.

SO SO IN MY PRE INTERVIEWS, I GATHERED AS MUCH INFORMATION AS I COULD ABOUT THOSE SPECIFIC ISSUES.

BUT OTHERS MAY BE KIND OF BREWING IN THE BACK OF YOUR MIND.

AND WE WANT TO TALK THROUGH THOSE SO THAT WE CAN COME TO SOME AGREEMENT AS A BODY ABOUT HOW WE WANT TO MAKE OURSELVES THE MOST EFFECTIVE DENTON CITY COUNCIL WE CAN BE.

SO ANYTHING BUT YES, PLEASE.

I HAVE ONE QUICK QUESTION.

DID YOU OR RON REFLECT AT ALL ON THE.

I STRUGGLED.

I LOOKED AND I HAVE A DEFINITION IN MY MIND, BUT JUST ASSUMING THE WORD POLITICS IS I WAS GOING TO SAY IF I WAS GOING TO IS THERE A FOLLOW UP OR FINDING AND JUST BECAUSE I DON'T, I FIND THAT TO BE JUST FULL DISCLOSURE.

IT'S AGAIN, I DON'T LIKE IT.

AND IT TRADITIONALLY LENDS ITSELF TO NATIONAL POLITICS WHERE YOU HAVE A BODY THAT HAS AN EXPECTATION THAT THEN PUTS PRESSURE ON YOU VERSUS, HEY, I MADE A BAD DECISION, OR I'M BEING INFLUENCED BY A INDIVIDUAL OR A GROUP, AND THAT'S POLITICS, QUOTE UNQUOTE, AT THIS LEVEL.

RIGHT. RIGHT. SO WHEN YOU SAID IT LAST AND THEN THE OTHER THING THAT I AND I'LL GET OUT OF YOUR WAY IS I'D LOVE TO HEAR YOUR THOUGHTS ON UNDERSTANDING WE'RE GOING TO HAVE AN AGREEMENT.

RULES. ET CETERA. SO THEN I NEED TO UNDERSTAND FURTHER, IF THAT'S IF THERE'S A CONFLICT.

YOU'RE NOT HERE FOUR MONTHS FROM NOW, AND IT'S LIKE, HEY, I DON'T THINK THAT'S IN LINE WITH WHAT WE AGREED TO, THEN HOW DO WE ADDRESS THAT? RIGHT. WHAT'S THE WHAT'S THAT? WHO'S THE WHO'S THE REFEREE OF THAT OR WHO'S THE ARBITER OF THAT THOSE FACTS TO THEN HAVE IT.

BECAUSE THAT'S THAT'S TRADITIONALLY EVERY TIME IT'S.

YOU'RE GONE FOUR MONTHS FROM NOW.

[00:25:02]

AND SO I'M NOT GOING TO ABIDE BY THAT POTENTIALLY.

RIGHT? EVERY DAY IS A NEW DAY.

EVERY YEAR IS A NEW YEAR.

BUT I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE AN AGREEMENT AMONG OR AT LEAST WE'RE ON THE RECORD AS SAYING WE DON'T CARE WHAT HAPPENS TODAY.

WE'RE GOING TO DO WHATEVER WE WANT TO DO.

RIGHT. EITHER WAY, I JUST I JUST I JUST WANT TO LEAVE WITH SOME ACTIONABLE THINGS THAT HAVE TEETH THAT ARE GOING TO HOLD US ACCOUNTABLE AND SO THAT IT JUST ADDS VALUE TO THE TIME.

BECAUSE IF WE'RE GOING TO IF WE'RE GOING TO BE HERE ALL SATURDAY, I'M ON, I'M ON.

WE WE NEED TO IT NEEDS TO BE PRODUCTIVE.

AND IF WE'RE GOING TO IGNORE IT, THEN LET'S JUST SAY THAT AND THEN PEOPLE CAN MAKE THEIR DECISIONS AFTER THAT.

SO THOSE TWO THINGS.

NO, I'M RIGHT IN LINE WITH YOU.

AND ACTUALLY, AS YOU WERE SITTING THERE LAST NIGHT, I WAS IN MY HEAD WHEN YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE WORD POLITICS.

AND YOU'LL SEE IT IN ONE OF MY UPCOMING SLIDES.

IT'S REALLY GAMESMANSHIP.

IT'S FEELING LIKE SOMEONE IS USING OR ABUSING THE SYSTEM TO THEIR OWN ADVANTAGE AND NOT NECESSARILY BEING ABOVEBOARD ABOUT IT.

SO IT'S SORT OF PLAYING THE SYSTEM IN A WAY.

AND SO YOU'RE NOT SURE IF YOU'RE PLAYING BY THE SAME RULES, IF THEY'RE BEING UPFRONT, IF THEY'RE JUST TRYING TO GAIN ADVANTAGE.

AND SO I DON'T USE POLITICS AS MUCH IN MY SPEAKING.

IT'S MORE THIS THE INTENT BEHIND GAINING THE ADVANTAGE.

AND TO ME, THAT'S GAMESMANSHIP.

BUT YOU'LL SEE IT UP HERE BECAUSE IT CAME UP IN SOME OF OUR CONVERSATIONS.

AND THEN I INTEND FOR YOU.

I HAVE THIS IS A BASICALLY A GENERIC DOCUMENT THAT HAS ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT TYPES OF PROVISIONS THAT COULD BE CONSIDERED. NOW, OF COURSE, THIS IS GOING TO BE TO YOU, TO THE BODY, TO THE ATTORNEY, TO TO THE AUDITOR OR WHOMEVER TO DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT SOME OF THE THINGS IN HERE ARE RELEVANT AND ARE APPLICABLE TO WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO ACHIEVE.

BUT I HAVE SOME OF THOSE SPECIFIC SECTIONS THAT WE CAN DISCUSS RELATED TO TO THE ISSUES THAT YOU ALL IDENTIFIED.

SO I COME FROM A PRACTICAL SPOT.

I DON'T WANT YOU TO SIT HERE AND FEEL LIKE YOU'VE WASTED YOUR DAY.

I WANT YOU TO TO WALK AWAY WITH AT LEAST THE CLARITY THAT WE INTEND TO MOVE FORWARD WITH SOMETHING OR WE'RE WASHING OUR HANDS AND WE'RE FINE WITH THE WAY THAT IT IS.

SO AS WE GO THROUGH TODAY, WE'LL DO THE NEXT THING WE'RE GOING TO DO IS AN EXERCISE.

ACTUALLY, I'M GOING TO TALK TO YOU A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE SYSTEM OF GOVERNANCE, AND THEN WE'LL DO A QUICK EXERCISE, HAVE SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT THAT, AND THEN WE'RE GOING TO DIVE RIGHT INTO THE SPECIFIC ISSUES THAT THAT SEEM TO BE PLAGUING THE SYSTEM THAT'S HERE IN DENTON.

SO FIRST OF ALL, OKAY, SO WE HAD SOME TALK LAST NIGHT ABOUT SYSTEMS THEORY.

SO YOU HAVE PREDICTABLE INPUTS, PREDICTABLE OUTCOMES, BUT IT ALSO CREATES CLARITY.

IT CREATES A CYCLE, IT CREATES ACCOUNTABILITY WHEN WE'RE ALL WORKING THROUGH THE SAME STEPS, THROUGH THE SAME PROCESS OVER AND OVER.

AND IN CITY GOVERNMENT, OBVIOUSLY THINGS CHANGE ALL THE TIME.

SO IT'S NOT LIKE YOU CAN SAY TODAY WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THIS MUCH MONEY FOR THIS THING AND THEN NEXT YEAR IT'S GOING TO BE THE EXACT SAME.

IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY.

SO WHETHER IT'S EMPLOYEE RAISES, WHETHER IT IS A CUSTOMER DEMANDS OF THE WATER DEPARTMENT, WHETHER IT IS A ROAD PROJECT THAT WE WEREN'T ANTICIPATING, BUT IT NOW HAS TO BE MOVED UP BECAUSE THERE WAS SOME SORT OF FAILURE.

THINGS CHANGE.

BUT WHAT WE WANT TO DO IS CREATE A SYSTEM THAT HAS PREDICTABILITY AND GOOD GOVERNANCE FOLLOWS KIND OF THIS TYPE OF PROCESS.

SO OFTENTIMES AN ISSUE ARISES OR GETS TO THE CITY COUNCIL LEVEL FROM CITIZEN INPUT.

YOU'VE BEEN OUT AT YOUR GOING TO USE RON'S DAIRY QUEEN AND SOMEONE HAS SAID TO YOU, YOU KNOW, THIS PART OF TOWN IS FALLING APART AND THE INFRASTRUCTURE IS NOT WORKING WELL, YOU'VE GATHERED SOME INPUT FROM THE CITY.

IT COULD BE A PUBLIC HEARING.

CITIZENS STAND UP AND SAY, THIS IS WHAT WE WANT.

IT COULD BE A CITIZEN SURVEY.

THIS IS WHAT WE THINK IS MOST IMPORTANT.

THERE ARE ANY NUMBER OF WAYS, BUT ULTIMATELY THIS WHOLE SYSTEM IS SET UP TO SERVE THE CITIZEN.

AND SO THEIR INPUT IS CRUCIAL IN ALL OF THIS AND TYPICALLY IS GOING TO INFORM WHAT IS BROUGHT FORWARD FROM YOU, THE REPRESENTATIVE.

IT CAN ALSO COME FROM STAFF INPUT.

SO LET'S SAY THAT TODAY YOU HAD ETHICS TRAINING, STATE STATE OF TEXAS CHANGES A LAW AND NOW THEY'RE REQUIRING SOMETHING DIFFERENT ETHICALLY OR CHANGE SOME PROVISION IN YOUR ETHICS POLICY.

STAFF HAS THE RESPONSIBILITY TO BRING THAT TO COUNCIL AND SAY WE HAVE TO CHANGE THIS, WE HAVE TO UPDATE THIS.

WE NEED TO TO TO BRING THIS TO YOUR ATTENTION OR WE NEED TO UPDATE A POLICY OR PROCEDURE RELATED TO THIS.

SO YOU'RE GETTING ALL OF THIS, BUT ULTIMATELY, THOSE TYPES OF THINGS FEED INTO COUNCIL IN YOUR VISIONING THAT IS YOUR POWER.

IT'S THE LONG TERM THINKING.

IT'S THE BIG PICTURE THINKING.

IT'S THE SAYING, WE WANT DENTON TO BE THIS IN THIS MANY YEARS.

IT IS. WE WANT OUR STAFF TO BE THIS.

IT IS. WE WANT OUR FACILITIES TO BE THIS.

IT'S THE HIGHER LEVEL, BIGGER PICTURE THINKING.

THAT'S WHERE YOUR POWER LIES.

YES. YEAH. YOU CAN FIX THE POTHOLE ALL DAY LONG, BUT YOU SHOULD BE LOOKING AT HOW DO WE BUILD A ROAD THAT NEVER HAS A POTHOLE? ELEVATED. WE SHOULD BE LOOKING AT ALL OF THE SYMPTOMS IN ORDER TO TREAT THE ACTUAL DISEASE RATHER THAN TREATING JUST THE SYMPTOMS, BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT HONORING YOUR

[00:30:09]

THAT'S GOING TO MAKE DENTON AS SUCCESSFUL AS IT CAN BE.

SO WHEN IT COMES TO YOU, IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO GO, WHAT DO I THINK ABOUT ROADS? DO I THINK THEY'RE FINE TO BE DIRT ROADS OR DO I THINK THEY SHOULD BE THE HIGHEST GRADE AND MOST THE SUBBASE SHOULD BE THE MOST SOPHISTICATED THING OUT THERE THAT WE SHOULD, YOU KNOW, OVERLAY THEM EVERY SINGLE YEAR.

MAKING THINGS UP HERE.

BUT, YOU KNOW, IT'S UP TO YOU TO KIND OF SET THE STANDARD.

WHAT IS THE STANDARD THAT YOU WANT TO ACHIEVE? WHAT IS IT THAT YOU WANT FOR DENTON BASED ON THE INPUT THAT YOU'RE RECEIVING? AND ULTIMATELY, ONCE YOU ARE ABLE TO COMMUNICATE A VISION, WHICH PART OF THE PROCESS THAT YOU'LL GO THROUGH HERE? I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE DATE IS, BUT AFTER THIS IS TO SAY THIS IS THIS IS WHO WE WANT TO BE, THIS IS WHERE WE'RE HEADED.

AND THEN YOU HAND IT OFF TO STAFF TO SAY, OKAY, WELL, WE'VE GOT THIS MANY DOLLARS.

WE CAN COMMIT THIS MUCH TO THIS AND GET THIS FAR WITHIN THIS PERIOD OF TIME.

COUNCIL DECIDES THAT'S NOT FAR ENOUGH.

THAT'S TOO FAR. WE HAVE THIS OTHER PRIORITY, BUT IT'S UP TO STAFF TO BRING YOU BACK THOSE PLANS OF WHAT IS REQUIRED THERE.

THE DETAILS, PEOPLE, THEY'RE GETTING DOWN IN THE WEEDS AND TRYING TO EXPLAIN TO YOU, IF WE WANT TO DO THIS ROAD, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE THIS MUCH ASPHALT.

WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE THIS MUCH SUBBASE.

WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE A CONTRACT THAT'S OVER THIS MANY DOLLARS AND YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH A BID PROCESS, ALL OF THE NITTY GRITTY DETAILS THAT THEY BRING BACK TO YOU, TRYING TO ACHIEVE THE VISION THAT YOU HAVE SET FOR THEM, WHICH MAKES IT VERY IMPORTANT THAT THIS VISION BE PRETTY CLEAR, BECAUSE IF YOU SAY WE WANT THE BEST ROADS AND THEY'RE LOOKING AT CONCRETE AND YOU MEAN ASPHALT.

THERE'S A THERE'S A DIVIDE THERE.

WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IT IS THAT YOU ARE ACTUALLY COMMUNICATING.

IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU'RE GOING TO SAY, I WANT THIS MANY GRAMS OF WHAT? I DON'T KNOW STREET TERMS, BUT I WANT THIS TYPE OF ASPHALT MIX.

I WANT IT TO BE THIS PROPORTION.

IT'S TO SAY I WANT ASPHALT.

THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

UNLESS THERE'S SOME COMPELLING REASON THAT IT SHOULD BE CONCRETE, I DON'T KNOW.

BUT WHEN STAFF BRINGS YOU BACK THE PLAN, THEY YOU AFFIRM.

SO THIS IS WHERE YOU APPROVE YOUR THE STRATEGIC VISION FOR THE YEAR, THE STRATEGIC PLAN FOR THE YEAR, THE BUDGET, FOR INSTANCE.

YOU HAVE NOW AFFIRMED THAT WHAT YOU'VE HEARD, WHAT YOU HAVE ENVISIONED, WHAT YOU SAID YOU WANT TO ACHIEVE, WHAT STAFF HAS PLANNED TOWARD THAT IN IS NOW GOING TO BE PUT INTO MOTION. SO BY ALLOCATING THE FUNDS, BY APPROVING THE PLAN, BY ADOPTING THE ORDINANCE, YOU HAVE NOW SAID THIS IS WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO, STAFF TAKE THE BALL AND RUN.

SO IT GOES TO STAFF.

STAFF EXECUTES.

THEY GO THROUGH THE PROCESS OF SECURING OR ISSUING THE BIDS.

THEY BRING YOU THE CONTRACT TO TO SIGN OFF ON.

THEY LOOK AT THE SCHEDULING, THEY DO THE PUBLIC NOTICES.

THEY DO ALL THE THINGS THAT ARE THAT ARE NECESSARY IN ALL OF THAT.

BUT ALSO IT IS THEIR RESPONSIBILITY THEN TO BUILD INTO THAT SYSTEM A REPORTING STRUCTURE.

IF YOU HAVE AN EXPECTATION THAT YOU WANT TO HEAR ABOUT THIS PROJECT EVERY SINGLE MONTH, YOU NEED TO SAY THAT IF YOU HAVE AN EXPECTATION THAT YOU JUST WANT TO HEAR ABOUT IT WHEN IT'S DONE, YOU NEED TO SAY THAT SO THAT STAFF CAN APPROPRIATELY BRING YOU BACK THE RESULTS OF THEIR WORK SO THAT YOU CAN EVALUATE IT, BECAUSE THAT'S YOUR SECONDARY LAYER OF POWER.

AND IT IS THAT YOU ARE THE ONES WHO WHO ARE TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

YOU HOLD STAFF ACCOUNTABLE TO WHAT IT IS YOU SET IN MOTION IN THE FIRST PLACE BECAUSE ULTIMATELY YOU'RE ACCOUNTABLE TO THE CITIZENS.

AND SO ONCE COUNCIL EVALUATES, THEY MAY SAY, YEAH, MISS THE MARK DIDN'T LIKE IT, THOUGHT THAT WAS GOING TO WORK, DIDN'T WORK.

SO WE WANT TO GO BACK AND THINK ABOUT THIS AGAIN OR THEY GET CITIZEN INPUT THROUGH EITHER ACTION AND ACTION COMPLAINTS, WHATEVER THAT SAYS.

THIS IS TERRIBLE. I HATE IT.

YOU SHOULD NEVER HAVE DONE THIS.

THEY BRING THAT BACK AS PART OF THE EVALUATION PROCESS AND YOU SAY, WELL, THEN WE NEED TO STOP DOING IT OR WE NEED TO DO IT DIFFERENTLY.

SO AS YOU CAN SEE, IT'S KIND OF CYCLICAL.

IT'S NOT IT'S NOT THAT YOU'RE GOING TO SET A PLAN IN PLACE AND SAY THIS IS ALL IT WILL EVER BE, OR HERE IS MY VISION.

YOU ALL FIGURE IT OUT.

THERE ARE ALL THESE STEPS THAT GO INTO A GOOD GOVERNANCE SYSTEM THAT BUILD IN THE ACCOUNTABILITY, BUILD IN THE DIALOG, BUILD IN THE REPORTING, BUILD IN THE KNOWING WHETHER OR NOT YOU'VE SUCCEEDED.

BUT ULTIMATELY IT'S SETTING THAT SORT OF LONGER TERM VIEW SO THAT WE CAN WE CAN ALL MOVE IN THE SAME DIRECTION, BECAUSE AS SOON AS THESE THINGS START TO GET OUT OF OUT OF OUT OF SYNC, STAFF IS IN CHAOS.

SO IF ONE COUNCIL MEMBER COMES AND SAYS, YEAH, WELL I KNOW WE SAID THAT, BUT I REALLY THINK WE SHOULD GO THIS DIRECTION, WE'RE GETTING OUT OF SYNC WITH THE SYSTEM.

AND SO ULTIMATELY WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS HONOR THAT THERE ARE ALL OF THESE STEPS INVOLVED IN THE PROCESS SO THAT WE CAN CONTINUE TO MOVE IN A WAY THAT IS MANAGEABLE, THAT'S

[00:35:03]

ANY THOUGHTS ABOUT THAT AS A THEORY? AS A SYSTEM? OKAY.

SO THIS THIS COMES FROM THE PEW RESEARCH CENTER.

AND I JUST THINK IT'S REALLY INTERESTING AND IT SETS KIND OF A CONTEXT OR A FRAME OF MIND FOR TODAY.

BUT I THINK IT'S VERY INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT THE PUBLIC IN GENERAL IS.

PEW RESEARCH SURVEYS THINK ABOUT GOVERNMENT IN GENERAL.

AND SO IF YOU LOOK AT FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, THIS WAS DONE JUST LAST YEAR IN MAY.

SO IT'S VERY RECENT DATA, BUT 32% OF THE GENERAL PUBLIC.

I HAVE A FAVORABLE FEELING ABOUT FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, WHICH MEANS THAT 66% HAVE AN UNFAVORABLE FEELING ABOUT THEIR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. YOU MOVE OVER HERE TO THE STATE NOW, WE HAVE JUST BEEN THROUGH A LEGISLATIVE SESSION, SO THESE NUMBERS MAY HAVE CHANGED IN TEXAS, BUT SLIGHTLY FAVORABLE, 54% TO 45% FAVORABLE VERSUS UNFAVORABLE.

BUT THEN YOU MOVE OVER TO LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND YOU SEE FAVORABLE IS AT 66%, UNFAVORABLE AT 33%, WHICH IS BASICALLY THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF FEDERAL. WHY DO WE THINK THAT IS? BECAUSE WE'RE BETTER.

WELL, I MEAN, WE SHOULD ALL HAVE SELF CONFIDENCE.

YES, LET'S ALL BE. LET'S ALL BE CONFIDENT.

BUT. BUT HONESTLY, WHY WHY DO WE THINK THAT IS? COULD THAT BE? BECAUSE IN LOCAL GOVERNMENT PEOPLE ARE MORE LIKELY TO TO LITERALLY KNOW THAT OFFICIAL THAN.

THE RATIO OF PEOPLE I KNOW IN DENTON IS PROBABLY GREATER THAN THE RATIO OF PEOPLE MY CONGRESSMAN KNOWS.

IN IN THE SAME HE'S GOT A BIGGER AREA.

I'VE GOT A SMALLER AREA.

RIGHT. YEAH.

SO THAT'S EXACT RELATIONSHIPS.

SO I KNOW SOMEONE WHO SITS ON THAT BOARD.

I KNOW SOMEONE WHO WORKS FOR THAT ORGANIZATION.

I KNOW SOMEONE WHO WORKS OR IS ON THAT CITY COUNCIL.

AND ALSO OFFER ACCESS.

LIKE HOW MUCH ACCESS DO YOU TRULY HAVE TO A FEDERAL OFFICIAL? WHETHER IT IS I'M GOING TO CALL THE HEAD OF THE EPA OR I'M GOING TO CALL THE CITY MANAGER, RIGHT.

THERE'S MORE ACCESS THAT PEOPLE HAVE TO GET TO THE PROVIDERS OF THEIR SERVICES, BUT THEY ALSO HAVE ACCESS TO YOUR MEETINGS.

SO YEAH, OKAY.

YOU CAN WATCH ON CNN OR WHATEVER CHANNEL STREAMS THE I DON'T THINK IT'S CNN SOMETHING C-SPAN.

THERE IT IS. THANK YOU.

STREAMS THE THE THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES MEETINGS AND OR SENATE HEARINGS.

AND YOU CAN WATCH THAT, BUT YOU CAN'T ACTUALLY PHYSICALLY GO AND BE PART OF THAT.

YOU CAN'T SERVE ON A BOARD OR COMMISSION.

SO THERE'S MORE ACCESS TO TO LOCAL GOVERNMENT, WHICH IF YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT PEOPLE THINK ABOUT WASHINGTON, HOW MUCH OF THAT IS BASED IN REALITY AND HOW MUCH OF IT IS BASED IN ASSUMPTION? BECAUSE YOU CAN'T GET CLOSE TO IT.

SO YOU FILL IN YOUR GAPS WITH THESE ASSUMPTIONS THAT, OH, YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO DRAIN THE SWAMP OR WE NEED TO, YOU KNOW, GET RID OF WHATEVER LAW OR THIS THAT OR THE OTHER THINGS THAT ARE NOT AS THEY'RE NOT AS CLOSE TO HOME.

BUT YOU ALSO DON'T HAVE AS MUCH INFLUENCE OVER.

SO PEOPLE FEEL A LITTLE HELPLESS WHEN THEY GET HERE.

THEY FEEL LIKE THEY HAVE MORE ACCESS AND MORE CONTROL AND MORE DETERMINATION OF WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THEIR OWN COMMUNITIES.

THEY ALSO FEEL A VERY STRONG SENSE OF OF OWNERSHIP IN THEIR COMMUNITY.

USUALLY PEOPLE FEEL PROUD OF THEIR HOMETOWN OR THEY FEEL AN AFFINITY FOR IT.

I'M NOT SURE. I MEAN, TEXANS WERE PRETTY PROUD OF OUR STATE, DON'T GET ME WRONG.

BUT BUT BUT IS IT DIFFERENT WHEN IT'S YOUR OWN LOCAL COMMUNITY AND IT'S YOU KNOW, YOUR KIDS ARE IN SCHOOL THERE, THERE'S MORE ACCESS.

AND SO I WOULD I WOULD POSIT THAT THAT BOTH OF THOSE THINGS, BOTH KNOWING THE PEOPLE HAVING THOSE RELATIONSHIPS, BUT ALSO HAVING THAT CLOSER ACCESS TO THE GOVERNMENT GOVERNMENT THAT IS IS DETERMINING YOUR COMMUNITY'S FUTURE.

BOTH ADD TO THAT.

YEAH PLEASE. AND I THINK ALL THOSE THINGS ARE IMPORTANT, BUT ONE OF THE MAJOR DIFFERENCES IS WHAT WE'RE CHARGED WITH DOING.

IT'S OUR SPHERE OF INFLUENCE AND IT'S BECAUSE MOST OF THE ISSUES FACING CITIES, THOSE CORE SERVICES, THEY'RE NOT POLARIZING.

RIGHT? AND SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT THOSE OTHER LEVELS, THOSE ISSUES CAN BE VERY POLARIZING.

THEY GET VERY THEORETICAL.

WHEREAS HERE WE'RE JUST TRYING TO MAKE SURE PEOPLE HAVE A GOOD LIFE, YOU KNOW, THAT OF THIS OF THE ISSUES THAT WE CAN CONTROL.

SO IF I MEAN, YOU CAN HAVE ALL THE RELATIONSHIPS AND ALL THAT, BUT IF YOU DON'T HAVE THAT CLARITY OF MOVING FORWARD WITH WHAT CAN YOU DO?

[00:40:05]

I MEAN, I THINK WE'VE SEEN WHERE WE'VE HAD ISSUES THAT WERE VERY POLARIZING.

AND AND THEN IT BEGINS TO IT BEGINS TO AFFECT HOW PEOPLE SEE.

SO I THINK IT'S JUST THE ISSUES ARE VERY DIFFERENT.

YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. YEAH.

RON, HE DIDN'T SAY IT LAST NIGHT, BUT ALMOST ALWAYS AS PART OF HIS PRESENTATION WILL SAY POTHOLES AREN'T RED OR BLUE.

AND THAT'S JUST A VERY, VERY SIMPLE WAY TO TO KIND OF DRILL DOWN TO LOCAL ISSUES.

THERE'S A REASON THAT THAT LOCAL GOVERNMENTS WERE SET UP AS NONPARTIZAN.

IT'S BECAUSE LOCAL ISSUES AND LOCAL FOLKS, IT'S NOT, YOU KNOW, RED VERSUS BLUE OR PURPLE OR WHATEVER.

IT'S REALLY ABOUT PROVIDING THOSE COMMUNITY SERVICES AND THOSE IMMEDIATE SERVICES TO THE PEOPLE THAT YOU SERVE.

YEAH. PLEASE. JUST TO BUILD ON THE THOUGHT, SHARE A COMMENT THAT I GOT WHEN KNOCKING ON DOORS FROM A RESIDENT.

YOU DRIVE ON THE DANG ROADS EVERY DANG DAY.

THAT'S LOCAL.

YEAH. YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

AND THAT'S THE THING. I MEAN, IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE EFFECTIVENESS THAT YOU HAVE WHEN YOU CONCENTRATE ON THOSE EVERYDAY SERVICES, THE WATER THAT COMES ON OR DOES NOT, RIGHT. THE ROADS THAT THAT PERSON DRIVES OVER, THAT SAME DANG DIP IN THE ROAD EVERY SINGLE DAY, WHY CAN'T THEY JUST FIX THIS, THAT ROAD THAT'S ALWAYS FLOODED WHEN IT'S WHEN IT RAINS, THE THE PARKS NOT BEING MAINTAINED AND THEY WANT THEIR KIDS TO GO PLAY THE ANIMAL SERVICES, DOGS ROAMING, WHATEVER.

ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE.

THOSE ARE VERY, VERY, VERY CLOSE TO HOME VERSUS THESE MORE THEORETICAL THINGS THAT ARE FLOATING OUT THERE KIND OF AT THE MORE NATIONAL AND STATE LEVEL.

HOW DO I FEEL ABOUT THIS, THAT OR THE OTHER? YOU HAVE THE CHANCE TO BE SUPER EFFECTIVE ON THOSE VERY, VERY IMPACTFUL ISSUES IN A COMMUNITY.

WHAT I FIND FASCINATING IN THAT IN THIS GRAPH IS THAT WHEN YOU LOOK AT, THOUGH, PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT FROM A VOTING PERSPECTIVE WHERE YOU ACTUALLY CAN INFLUENCE THOSE DECISION MAKERS THAT QUOTE UNQUOTE REPRESENTS YOU, LOCAL GOVERNMENT HAS, YOU KNOW, AS BY FAR THE SMALLEST LEVEL OF PARTICIPATION.

SO MAYBE THAT'S AN INTERESTING CONCEPT.

IT'S LIKE, WELL, YOU KNOW, IT MEANS THAT THEY'RE MORE SATISFIED, I GUESS.

I DON'T KNOW. BUT IT JUST IT'S JUST A VERY INTERESTING OBSERVATION.

AND THAT ELECTED OFFICIAL AFFECTS YOU MUCH, MUCH MORE DIRECTLY.

YES. BUT THAT'S ALSO INTERESTING.

IF WE BUILD ON SOME OF THE DISCUSSION LAST NIGHT, THAT IN LOCAL GOVERNMENT, BECAUSE THE VOTING POPULATION CAN BE SO SMALL, AND ESPECIALLY ONCE YOU GET DOWN TO A DISTRICT, IT'S VERY DEFINED, RIGHT? LIKE YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHO'S HERE.

AND I MEAN, WE WOULD HAVE ELECTIONS.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOUR TURNOUT IS, BUT OURS WAS USUALLY ABOUT 4% IN A DISTRICT ELECTION, MAYBE SIX IF IT WAS AT LARGE.

IS THAT ABOUT A LITTLE HIGHER? BUT IT'S COMPARATIVELY WE BLAMED OURS ON WE WERE A MILITARY COMMUNITY AND SO FOLKS WERE TRANSIENT.

SO THEY WEREN'T NECESSARILY BOUGHT IN.

THEY WERE THERE FOR THREE YEARS OR FOUR YEARS AND THEN THEY MIGHT MOVE ON.

BUT BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S THAT ATYPICAL OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, WHICH IS REALLY INTERESTING BECAUSE MOST OF WHAT THEY COMPLAIN ABOUT OR WHAT THEY NEED IS FROM THAT LOCAL GOVERNMENT.

BUT THEY'RE THEY'RE LESS LIKELY TO TO ENGAGE IN ACTUALLY VOTING.

BUT IF WE GO BACK TO SOME OF WHAT RON WAS SAYING LAST NIGHT, YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE ONLY APPEALING TO AND WE'RE ONLY APPEASING AND WE'RE ONLY REPRESENTING THAT 4%, 6%, WE'RE LEAVING 94% OR HOWEVER MANY PERCENT OUT, THEY'RE NOT CONSIDERED. AND SO THAT'S WHERE WHERE THE REAL BALANCE COMES IN, WHERE YOU HAVE TO TO LOOK BIGGER AND BROADER THAN JUST THE NEXT ELECTION, WHICH WAS ONE OF THE POINTS THAT HE MADE, BECAUSE ULTIMATELY IT'S THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY THAT YOU'RE SERVING.

EVEN IF YOU'RE JUST A DISTRICT REPRESENTATIVE, YOUR VOTE MAKES A DIFFERENCE TO EVERYBODY IN THE COMMUNITY.

I THINK ANOTHER INTERESTING PIECE OF THIS IS, IS THIS MEDIA AND SOCIAL MEDIA.

I'M JUST GOING TO FAST FORWARD ALL THE WAY TO THIS SIDE.

BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE DECLINE IN IN THE TRUST BELIEVE RESULTS FROM NATIONAL MEDIA AND LOCAL MEDIA, YOU CAN SEE NATIONAL HAS TAKEN A VERY STEEP DIVE.

LOCAL MEDIA HAS TAKEN A DIVE.

NOW, OF COURSE, SOME OF THAT IS A LOT OF LOCAL NEWS ORGANIZATIONS ARE GOING UNDER.

THEY'RE SORT OF THEY'RE SORT OF DISAPPEARING.

BUT THEN THE NATIONAL YOU CAN TALK ABOUT THE FAKE NEWS MOVEMENT AND SOME OF THOSE THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN IN THE VERNACULAR AS OF LATE KIND OF DRIVING THAT DOWN.

BUT I WILL TELL YOU THIS I FIND VERY INTERESTING.

SO FROM 2016 TO 2022, THERE HAS BEEN BASICALLY NO CHANGE IN PEOPLE'S BELIEF IN SOCIAL MEDIA.

SO THIS SHOULD BE INTERESTING AND LET ME TELL YOU WHY.

SO YOU'RE WATCHING, SAY, YOUR LOCAL NEWS DROP IN, HOW MUCH PEOPLE ARE PAYING ATTENTION TO IT, USING IT, TRUSTING AND BELIEVING IT.

[00:45:06]

WE THINK, OH, WELL, BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE GETTING IT FROM SOCIAL MEDIA, THAT'S WHERE EVERYBODY IS.

THAT'S THE FLAT LINE.

PEOPLE ARE BECOMING MAYBE A LITTLE DISILLUSIONED, MAYBE A LITTLE MORE DISCERNING ABOUT THE INFORMATION THEY'RE GETTING.

SO WHERE ARE THEY GETTING IT? AND WHAT I'LL TELL YOU IS, HAVING BEEN A FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, THE CHANGE IS WE HAVE DIRECT CONTACT WITH FOLKS NOW.

CITY GOVERNMENTS OF THEIR OWN NEWSROOMS. THEY CAN PUT THE INFORMATION OUT IN WAYS THAT THAT LOCAL AND NATIONAL MEDIA AND SOCIAL MEDIA NEVER WILL.

SO, YES, THEY'RE ENGAGED IN SOCIAL MEDIA.

THEY'RE ENGAGED IN MEDIA RELATIONS AND ALL OF THE THINGS THAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE.

BUT IF YOU'VE EVER TRIED TO DO A DEEP DIVE ON YOUR WEBSITE, I DON'T EVEN KNOW.

WE HAD 600 AND SOME PAGES OF INFORMATION FOR FOLKS, PLUS ALL OF THESE ADD ON THINGS WHERE YOU COULD DIVE DOWN INTO THE LINE ITEM DETAIL OF THE BUDGET IF YOU WANTED TO. BUT THERE'S MORE AND MORE ACCESS FOR FOLKS TO GET TO INFORMATION, BUT IT'S TO US TO TEACH THEM HOW TO FIND IT BECAUSE IF NOT, WE'RE ALLOWING THIS GAP TO EITHER EXIST OR TO BE FILLED BY ONE OR THE OTHER.

AND I WILL TELL YOU THAT BOTH MEDIA AND SOCIAL MEDIA HAVE THEIR OWN AGENDAS.

AND IT IS NOT TO BE COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY SPECIFICALLY TRANSPARENT AND FAIR AND HONEST ABOUT EVERY SINGLE ISSUE IN CITY GOVERNMENT.

SO IT IS SO IMPORTANT THAT THAT WE ARE NOT FEEDING INTO THIS VOID.

AND RATHER, WE'RE TRYING TO GET PEOPLE TO THE INFORMATION THAT THEY NEED AND GIVE THEM THE OPPORTUNITIES TO ENGAGE WITH US SO THAT WE KNOW EXACTLY WHAT IT IS THEY EXPECT.

AND YOU ASKED A QUESTION LAST NIGHT ABOUT HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT PEOPLE WANT? RIGHT? AND SO WHEREVER YOU GO, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO HAVE THEIR OPINIONS.

YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE YOUR LITTLE GROUPS, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE YOUR LITTLE SPECIAL INTERESTS ALL OVER THE CITY.

AND SO IN OUR COMMUNITY, WE HAVE PLENTY OF THAT.

BUT WE ALSO WOULD COMMIT ANNUAL SURVEYS.

IT WAS BIANNUAL, BUT THINGS LIKE THAT THAT GIVE YOU A BROADER PERSPECTIVE, A MORE STATISTICALLY RELIABLE SOURCE TO SAY THE REASON WE ARE PUTTING ALL OF OUR MONEY HERE AND NOT HERE IS BECAUSE 90% OF PEOPLE SAID STREETS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO THEM AND ONLY 12% SAID THEY WANTED TO SEE ANIMAL SERVICES GET MORE MONEY, WHATEVER IT IS.

BUT THAT GIVES YOU A TOOL AND A RESOURCE TO SAY, WELL, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE BASING THE DATA ON.

DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THAT BROAD.

IT CAN BE OTHER WAYS. IT COULD BE A TOWN HALL MEETING, IT COULD BE A SPECIFIC SURVEY, IT COULD BE A NEIGHBORHOOD SURVEY.

THOSE KINDS OF THINGS GIVE YOU THOSE TOOLS IN YOUR TOOL BAG TO MAKE THOSE DECISIONS THAT ARE BROADER IN NATURE AND LONGER TERM THINKING IN NATURE AND REPRESENT THE COMMUNITY MORE BROADLY AND MORE WHOLLY.

SO I JUST I ALWAYS LIKE TO THROW THIS IN BECAUSE I JUST THINK IT'S INTERESTING AND I THINK IT REALLY KIND OF SHINES A LIGHT ON THE FACT THAT THIS IS WORTH PROTECTING.

THAT TRUST IN LOCAL GOVERNMENT IS SO IMPORTANT.

AND LET'S NOT WATCH THAT NUMBER SLIDE BECAUSE ALL THESE OTHER NUMBERS ARE SLIDING AND INFLUENCING LOCAL ISSUES.

YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO BUILD A SYSTEM THAT HAS SUCH INTEGRITY AND SUCH SURETY AND SUCH CLARITY THAT FOLKS CAN HAVE THAT TRUST IN LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND WE CAN MAINTAIN THAT MOVING FORWARD. OKAY, SO WE'RE GOING TO DO AN EXERCISE TO START US OFF ON OUR CONVERSATION ABOUT.

YEAH, PLEASE. I JUST WANT TO CHIP IN A THOUGHT ABOUT THIS QUESTION FOR THE COMMITTEE AND GET A BROADER READ.

AND WE MENTIONED SOMETHING THAT'S OUT OF DATE, LABOR INTENSIVE, BUT MAYBE WORTH ANOTHER THOUGHT.

AND ANYBODY HERE WHO IS RUNNING FOR OFFICE, WHICH IS A LOT OF US, KNOWS THAT WHEN YOU GO DOOR TO DOOR, YOU TALK TO PEOPLE WHO AREN'T ALWAYS THE SAME LOUD VOICES AND YOU'LL QUICKLY GAIN SOME PERSPECTIVE AND, YOU KNOW, BACK, BACK BEFORE MY TIME THERE WAS SUCH A THING AS DOOR TO DOOR POLLSTERS.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU ENGAGED CITIZEN VOLUNTEERS OR WHATEVER, BUT, YOU KNOW, MOST THINGS YOU MENTIONED WILL WILL INVOLVE HEARING FROM PEOPLE WHO FEEL LIKE TALKING. YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

SO HOW DO YOU GET BEYOND THAT? BECAUSE TOWN HALL NEAR THE ONLINE POLLS, YOU CAN HEAR FROM PEOPLE ENGAGE ONLINE.

HOW DO YOU PENETRATE BEYOND.

IT USED TO BE SELF MOTIVATED. WHEN I STARTED, IT WAS WE WERE DOING PHONE.

NO ONE ANSWERS THE PHONE ANYMORE. WELL, NO ONE HAS A HOME PHONE.

WELL, THERE YOU GO. YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? SO, LIKE, HOW DO YOU HOW DO YOU REACH THOSE PEOPLE? HOW DO YOU GET TO THOSE PEOPLE? AND SO MUCH OF IT IS IS KNOWING THOSE AUDIENCES AND THE SPECIFIC ISSUES AND REALLY KIND OF HONING IN ON PARTICULAR STRATEGIES OF ENGAGEMENT.

AND THAT'S A NEW THING, IS THAT THERE'S SO MUCH NOISE EVERYWHERE ALL THE TIME FOR PEOPLE.

IT'S NOT JUST THE PRESSURES OF JUST REGULAR LIFE.

IT'S THAT THEY'RE JUST CONSTANTLY INUNDATED WITH NOISE.

[00:50:03]

IT'S CONSTANT. IT'S EVERYWHERE.

AND SO HOW DO YOU BECOME THE CLEAR BELL THAT THAT RESONATES AND THAT THAT PEOPLE HAVE TO BELIEVE THAT WHAT THEY SAY TO YOU HAS INFLUENCE AND THAT YOU'RE GOING TO USE THAT IN A WAY THAT'S GOING TO BENEFIT THEM.

SO OFTEN IT IS TARGETING KIND OF THOSE SPECIFIC QUESTIONS.

SO, FOR INSTANCE, LET'S SAY YOU'RE YOU'RE WORKING ON PUBLIC SAFETY.

WE DID THIS IN ONE OF OUR SURVEYS.

WE HAD WE NEEDED A NEW POLICE STATION.

IT WAS GOING TO REQUIRE A TAX INCREASE.

WE NEEDED TO ADJUST POLICE PAY.

IT WAS GOING TO REQUIRE A TAX INCREASE.

AND THERE WAS SOME OTHER THING ABOUT POLICE.

AND THEY SAID, OH, THE PUBLIC'S NEVER GOING TO GO FOR IT.

THEY HATE TAX INCREASES.

WELL, WE DID A CERTIFIABLE SURVEY AND IT WAS LIKE 84% OF PEOPLE SAID, YES, YOU CAN RAISE MY TAXES FOR THAT SPECIFIC PURPOSE BECAUSE THEY KNEW WHERE THE MONEY WAS GOING.

AND THAT'S THAT TRANSPARENCY PIECE.

IF WE'RE MORE HONEST AND UP FRONT AND OPEN ABOUT THE FACT THAT WE ARE GOING TO RAISE YOUR TAXES, BUT THIS IS SPECIFICALLY WHERE IT'S GOING TO GO.

WE WENT THROUGH STREET MAINTENANCE FEE AND PEOPLE SAID, OUR STREETS ARE THAT BAD.

WE ARE WILLING TO PAY THAT FEE EVERY MONTH BECAUSE IF YOU TELL ME THAT THAT'S EXACTLY WHERE THE MONEY IS GOING, I'M OKAY WITH THAT.

BUT SO OFTEN WE JUST ASSUME, OH, WELL, THE LOUD PEOPLE ARE SAYING, YOU CAN'T RAISE MY TAXES, MY TAXES ARE TOO HIGH.

RIGHT? SO IT'S GETTING REALLY STRATEGIC ABOUT SOME OF THOSE ISSUES AND GETTING THE CLARITY AND THE VISION ON THIS BODY AND BUILDING INTO THE PROCESS THOSE ENGAGEMENT OPPORTUNITIES OR THOSE STRATEGIES SO THAT YOU CAN GET THAT RELIABLE DATA ON THE OTHER END AND THEN YOU CAN POINT TO IT WHEN THE CRITICS COME, RIGHT? YES, PLEASE. I JUST HAVE A RULES OF ENGAGEMENT QUESTION FOR YOU, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IT'S AGAIN, COUNCILWOMAN WATTS SAYS IT REGULARLY.

IT'S ALL SCAR TISSUE.

RIGHT? AND SO TRYING TO PROCESS THROUGH THAT.

BUT MY QUESTION IS THIS NOT LEADING ONE WAY OR ANOTHER? I JUST NEED TO KNOW YOUR YOUR ANSWER WHEN YOU ASK A QUESTION, DO WE AGREE OR HOW DO WE FEEL ABOUT THAT? AND YOU HEAR SILENCE.

IS THAT. AFFIRMATIVE OR IS THAT A DISAGREEMENT? LIKE HOW DO YOU READ IT JUST SO EVERYONE KNOWS? NO ONE SAID ANYTHING AND IT WAS INTERPRETED AS RIGHT.

SO. SO SOME OF THE THEORY STUFF.

TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT. DO WHATEVER YOU WANT WITH IT.

WHEN WE GET TO THE ISSUES PIECE, I'M GOING TO BE LOOKING AT EYES AND SO YEAH.

AND IF YOU FEEL LIKE YOU HAVEN'T HEARD, PLEASE STEP IN AND SAY I NEED TO HEAR VOICES.

WELL, I'M BIASED. SO.

SO I'M SAYING SO.

YEAH. SO, SO WHAT I'M SAYING IS WHEN YOU SILENCE IS CONSENT OR NO, I WOULD NOT TAKE IT AS CONSENT.

WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO IS WALK AWAY WITH HERE IS OUR LIST AND WE ARE GOING TO GO AROUND THE ROOM AND SAY, DO WE HAVE CONSENSUS ON THIS LIST MOVING FORWARD? OKAY, YEAH. I DON'T WANT US TO WALK AWAY WITH THAT SAME KIND OF LIKE, MAYBE, MAYBE NOT, BECAUSE THAT'S NOT GOING TO BE EFFECTIVE FOR STAFF IF THE EXPECTATION IS THEY'RE GOING TO BRING SOMETHING BACK TO YOU.

SO YEAH, SO WE'LL AND THEN WE'LL WE'LL LEAD OFF ON THIS IS GOING TO LEAD TO OUR FIRST LITTLE DISCUSSION HERE TODAY AND THEN WE'LL GET INTO THE SPECIFIC ISSUES.

BUT EACH OF YOU HAS THIS EACH OF YOU HAVE THIS FROM YESTERDAY.

YES. OKAY.

SO WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO IS INDIVIDUALLY, I WANT YOU ALL TO COMPLETE THIS.

AND SO YOU GO THROUGH AND YOU RANK ON A SCALE OF 1 TO 10 THE STATEMENTS.

SO THE CLOSER YOU ARE TO THE STATEMENT ON THE LEFT, THE CLOSER THE NUMBER SHOULD BE, THE CLOSER YOU ARE TO THE STATEMENT ON THE RIGHT.

IN YOUR OPINION, YOUR PERSONAL PERSPECTIVE, THE CLOSER YOU'LL BE TO THE TEN ON THE SCALE.

SO IF YOU THINK YOU'RE AT A FIVE, YOU THINK YOU'RE AT A NINE, WHATEVER.

AND THEN YOU'RE GOING TO TALLY, EXCUSE ME, ALL OF THOSE NUMBERS ON THE LAST PAGE TO GIVE US SOME PERSPECTIVE ABOUT HOW YOU FEEL AS A GROUP ABOUT THE BODY AND ITS EFFECTIVENESS IN GOVERNANCE.

AND THEN WE'LL LOOK AT THE SPECIFIC ISSUES THAT ARE THE HIGHEST ON THE LIST AS A JUMPING OFF POINT FOR OUR DISCUSSION.

SO LET'S TAKE IT SHOULDN'T TAKE YOU MORE THAN ABOUT 10 OR 15 MINUTES.

GIVE ME THE NUMBER SCALE AGAIN.

SO YOU'RE GOING TO THE NUMBER, YOUR INTENSITY OF YOUR BELIEF.

IF YOU BELIEVE STRONGLY IN THE LEFT HAND SIDE, IT WOULD BE A ONE AND THEN IT SCALES UP TO YOU.

IF YOU BELIEVE REALLY STRONGLY IN THE RIGHT HAND SIDE, IT WOULD BE A TEN.

AND SO IT'S WHATEVER IN BETWEEN.

DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? OKAY.

ALL RIGHT. SO LET'S WE'RE DOING ALL THE PAGES OR JUST THE FIRST TWO, ALL THE PAGES AND THEN TALLY IT ON THE FINAL.

I WAS TOLD THERE WOULD BE NO MATH.

I'LL DO YOUR MATH FOR YOU IF YOU WANT ME TO.

I LIKE ONE.

AND IF YOU WANT ALL OF THE STAFF TO DO IT, BUT I DEFINITELY WANT YOU TO DO IT.

OKAY. TAKE IT CHASSIS.

TAKE THE TEST. SO SHE SHOULD HAVE GAVE US ONE PAGE AT A TIME.

OKAY. IT'S WHAT YOU FEEL PERSONALLY.

OKAY. SO THE BOARD IS THE CITY COUNCIL?

[00:55:06]

SO THAT'S.

[01:03:25]

NO, NO, HOLD ON TO THAT.

HOLD ON. HOLD ON TO.

I USE A CALCULATOR, I JUST USE MY.

THE AUDIENCE NUMBERS.

SHE'LL AUDIT OUR NUMBERS.

[01:05:28]

WAY YOU RECEIVE.

YEAH. OKAY.

OKAY. YEAH.

OKAY. GOTCHA. GOTCHA. GOTCHA. RIGHT.

OKAY. GOTCHA. GOTCHA.

OKAY. THANKS. YEAH, I KNOW, RIGHT? THIS IS HOW WE. I TAKE THIS ONE, I'LL TAKE YOURS.

I'LL USE THE. I JUST NEED THE BACK PART.

OKAY. HOW? WE THINK IT'S YOUR PERSONAL PERSPECTIVE OF HOW WE WILL PROVIDE WASTED ALL THAT TIME.

WELL. ALL RIGHT.

SO. WELL, THAT'S A MUCH.

I'M TRYING TO.

MY SCORE ADDS UP TO I NEED TO MOVE THESE TOWNS.

YOU BETTER GET ASKED TO MOVE AND LEAVE TOWN.

YOU STUCK TO. YOU RAN FOR OFFICE.

NOW YOU'VE BEEN SENTENCED TO TWO YEARS.

YOU CAN GET TIME OFF. NO TIME SERVED.

I'M SHOPPING FOR A MOBILE HOME IN THE MORNING.

NO SENTENCES.

WELL.

IS. WOULD YOU LOOK AT MY CHILD? SHE'S GROWN UP.

YOU SEE, WE DIDN'T ANSWER HER BACK.

I JUST. I JUST HAD THAT IN MY TRUNK, AND IT'S JUST EASY FOR ME.

OKAY. AND RICHARD.

YEAH. AND SHE WAS SPEAKING OF TEXAS, AND IT TURNS OUT SHE DID.

SHE APPARENTLY WAS ILL, BUT SHE WAS SPEAKING.

BUT SHE SPOKE ANYWAY.

SHE SAID SOMETHING. I WAS NOT A HUGE, HUGE I DON'T KNOW HOW TO SAY IT.

IF WE KNOW SOMEBODY, WE CAN EXAMINE THEM SO CLOSELY THAT WE MIGHT NOT SUPPORT THEM TO SUPPORT SOMEBODY.

I'M SURE WE WOULD HAVE. AND YOU MENTIONED THAT KNOWING KNOWING LOCAL RELATIONSHIPS AND AND FOR HER, HER THOUGHT WAS SOMETIMES SHE KNOWS SOMEBODY YOU KNOW SO WELL, MAYBE I'M GOING TO VOTE FOR SOMEBODY.

I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY.

I'VE ALWAYS THOUGHT THAT WAS INTERESTING.

THAT'S INTERESTING. SHE WAS SHE WAS A DEFINITELY A I THINK IT'S WORTH.

HE WAS. YOU.

AND SO YOU SAID THAT.

IT'S. YEAH, THIS IS, YOU KNOW.

AS YOU KNOW, I'M AND SOUND LIKE I COME FROM FROM THAT POSITION. I CAN'T TALK TO YOU AT ALL.

I CAN'T TALK TO YOU AT ALL.

IT WAS GREAT. IT WAS WONDERFUL.

I DIDN'T REALIZE HOW GOOD IT WAS.

[01:10:01]

WHAT'S YOUR OPINION ON CONCRETE POLICE CARS? SOLID WASTE. ALL SORTS OF THINGS.

SO I'VE BEEN INUNDATED WITH CONSTITUENTS.

I ONLY TALK TO THEM WHEN I'M WALKING MY DOG OVER IN THEIR CARS AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ISSUES.

AND IT'S ALWAYS IT'S ALWAYS COMPLAINTS.

ALWAYS, ALWAYS. I STARTED A POLICY THAT WE HAVE TO TELL ME TWO GOOD THINGS AND DISCLOSE IT. OKAY.

TELL ME TWO GOOD ESSER.

THERE'S NOTHING GOOD. OKAY.

THAT KIND OF MRS. OKAY. WHEN YOU BRUSH YOUR TEETH.

EXACTLY. EXACTLY.

NOW, WHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM? IT'S THAT ONE GROUP THAT COMES IN AND SUPERSEDES.

OH, WE JUMPED OFF THE WAGON PRETTY HARD IN THE LAST YEAR.

WE JUMPED STRAIGHT INTO THE CITY.

SHE GOES, THAT IS NOT CALLING YOU.

SHE GOES OFF. RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT.

SO SHE SAID TO ME, YEAH.

SO THAT WOULD BE HERE LONG ENOUGH TO HAVE DONE THIS.

I STARTED TO CALL HER BACK AND SAY, I'M NOT LEAVING.

IT'S A WHOLE DIFFERENT ANIMAL ON BOARD.

SHE GOES SOLO AT LAST.

THAT'S GOOD. YEAH.

SO WE DO IT TOGETHER. I MEAN, NO, IF EVERYBODY'S DOWN, THEY KEEP GOING.

I DIDN'T REALIZE I TOOK THE WRONG MACHINE.

ALL RIGHT. BRIAN'S BEEN COPYING MY WORK.

WHICH MEANS WE'RE BOTH GOING TO FAIL.

I GET THIS LAND IN WEST TEXAS, AND WE FIXED IT.

I WISH YOU COMMON PARENT STATEMENT AND THREE LETTERS.

WE'RE DEALING WITH SODIUM, ALL OF THEM.

OH, YEAH, YEAH, YEAH.

IT'S STILL EDIBLE PROTEIN. YEAH, IT'S STILL THERE.

IT IS STILL.

YEAH. ANIMAL PROTEIN.

TO GET PAST A CERTAIN POINT, LIKE YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO LISTEN TO KNOW CONSEQUENCES ACCUMULATE WITH YOU.

YEAH.

YEAH. 33.

25. AT A CERTAIN POINT, SHE GETS REALLY? YOU 19 FIND THESE DECISIONS, WHICH IS REALLY WHAT THIS IS.

THAT IS AWESOME. THAT IS AWESOME.

IF YOU JUST STICK WITH IT, IF IT'S JUST A PART OF JOINT LIFE.

SO I JUST, YOU KNOW, I'M SO SORRY.

NO, PLEASE, GO RIGHT AHEAD. I GOT.

I GOT TWO PAGES.

I APOLOGIZE TO THE GROUP.

I JUST WAS DOING THE WRONG SURVEY.

DELICIOUS. ARE THE WRONGS DELICIOUS?

[01:15:02]

IT'S INTERESTING, BUT YOU 60.

IT'S BECAUSE I'M STRESSED AND YOU HAVE YOU KNOW, I DON'T SEE THAT PODCAST JUST BECAUSE I HAD I ALBERTSONS AND THEN I ALSO SHOP AT STORES AS WELL.

THINK IT'S.

SOME. EVERYONE IS SO. THIS IS.

IF YOU'RE INTERESTED, I'LL TELL YOU THE SEASONINGS, INCLUDING THE SMOKE TASTE.

AND I USE JUSTIN'S, WHICH IS PRESIDIUM'S.

YES. YES.

TASTY BURGER AND SAUSAGE PATTIES.

DIFFERENT SEASONING. OH, I KEEP HEARING ABOUT THAT.

I'VE GOT TO GET SOME AT THE GROCERY STORE.

I GOT TO GET SOME. GOING TO BE GOOD IN A SAUSAGE.

YEAH. SO ANYTIME.

ANYTHING? YEAH, THAT'S PRETTY GOOD.

YEAH, JUST GENERALLY FOR ME.

SO STUFF I'VE LEARNED ABOUT HERBS, SPICES, SEASONINGS.

THERE'S SO MANY FLAVORS. IT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT'S LIKE.

IT'S A CRUTCH. LIKE, REALLY DELICIOUS STUFF.

AND THEN I'LL ASK MY WIFE. EVERYBODY, HATS OFF.

IT'S JUST LIKE A THING.

IT'S GOOD. IT'S GOOD.

BECAUSE THAT'S HARD.

SURE, BUT WE DON'T GET IT.

RIGHT. RIGHT. I DON'T WANT TO GO IN A WINTER MARKET.

WHERE? CENTRAL MARKET WHERE, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT NEAR.

THAT'S THE THING. IT'S IT'S NOT.

SO THAT'S A HIKE.

IT'S AN OUTING AT LEAST. YEAH.

YOU KNOW, WE'RE WE'RE THERE. WE'LL GO SHOP AROUND YOU'LL YOU THE PERCENTAGE OF WE WERE GOING TO BE GONE. YOU READY.

YEAH. ALL RIGHT.

SORRY ABOUT THAT, EVERYBODY.

SORRY, BUT THEY DON'T CALL THE STORE.

OKAY, LET'S GET OUR TALLY SHEETS OUT.

OUR SCORES, AND LET'S TALK THROUGH WHERE WE.

WHERE WE SEE OURSELVES TODAY.

SO DID ANY OF US HAVE A TOTAL SCORE OF 51 OR LOWER ANY POLLYANNAS IN THE ROOM? WELL, I'M A POLLYANNA, BUT I DIDN'T HAVE ANY.

OKAY. ANYBODY WITH 52 TO 100.

I'M SORRY. OKAY.

ANYBODY? 101 TO 200.

I GOT TWO OF THREE.

OKAY. OKAY.

OKAY, SO WE'RE GETTING ASPIRATIONAL.

JESUS. I'M JUST GETTING 301 TO 400.

WAIT, WAIT, WAIT. DO WE SKIP ONE? WE SKIPPED ONE. Y'ALL ARE GOOD.

201 TO 300.

I SKIPPED. THAT WAS MY FAULT.

OH, WE ARE. WE LOOKING AT THE ENTIRE TOTAL.

THE TOTAL NUMBER? YEAH.

OKAY. WAIT A MINUTE. START OVER.

OKAY. 51 OR LOWER.

NOBODY. 52 TO 100.

[01:20:02]

OH, OKAY.

IS THAT 3 TO 2? I GOT TO 201 TO 300.

ONE, TWO, THREE, FOUR.

OKAY. 301 TO 400.

WOO! WOO! WOO! TELL THE TRUTH. OKAY. AND THE MAYOR.

OKAY. AND THEN 400.

1 TO 500. ANYBODY OFF THE CHARTS? OKAY, SO Y'ALL ARE SOMEWHERE IN GENERAL BETWEEN THE TYPICAL GOVERNANCE OF CULTURE, MEANING THAT THERE'S DEFINITELY AN AREA FOR IMPROVEMENT AND THEN BASICALLY THAT THIS IS EXCRUCIATING AND LIKE PULLING TEETH AND IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THAT WAY.

SO JESSE IN GENERAL, I HOPE YOU LOOKED AT EACH OTHER AND SAW THAT, BUT I WANT TO HEAR ANY UNIQUE PERSPECTIVES.

HAVE YOU READ THE LITTLE WRITE UP? DOES ANYBODY WANT TO ELABORATE ON THEIR TOTAL SCORE? I'D LIKE TO ELABORATE ON MY TOTAL SCORE, WHICH WAS 200 BETWEEN THE 203.

ACTUALLY, IT WAS A 246.

OKAY. AND.

I THINK THAT WE DO YOU KNOW, WE DO A LOT OF THINGS WELL HERE IN DENTON.

WE'VE MADE A REPUTATION FOR OURSELVES AS BEING THE PLACE TO GO.

IF YOU WANT TO LISTEN TO MUSIC, HAVE CULTURE.

WE HAVE A CULTURE HERE AND THE ENTIRE CITY HAS DONE THAT.

ALL OF OUR NON-PROFITS ARE CHIPPING IN AND, YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY'S JUST KIND OF WORKING.

THERE'S JUST AN OVERALL THING.

BUT WHEN YOU COME INTO THE WHEN YOU OPEN THE DOOR, THAT LITTLE CONFLICT IS GOING ON IN THERE.

BUT WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IS IF IT'S A CONFLICT, LET'S LET IT BE GOING FORWARD, CONFLICTUAL AND THEN STUCK AND WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING WITH IT.

SO THAT'S WHERE THAT'S WHY I REALLY APPRECIATE THE THOUGHT OF YOU PROBABLY HAVE THE RIGHT SYSTEMS IN PLACE THAT HAS SOME ISSUES.

AND I THINK SOMETIMES OUR ISSUES, WE TAKE ISSUES PERSONALLY.

AND SO IF WE WOULD IF WE COULD BE MINDFUL THAT WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH ME? YOU KNOW, I'M IN THE MIND.

I'M RIGHT NOW. I PERSONALLY DO NOT OWE ANYBODY ANYTHING THAT'S IN MY HEAD.

I DON'T OWE ANYBODY ANYTHING.

SO IT'S THAT CAN'T BE THAT PERSONAL FOR ME.

BUT WE DO HAVE SOME PEOPLE ON SOME MEMBERS ON OUR BOARD WHERE IT JUST SEEMS LIKE YOU'RE JUST TAKING THIS JUST TOO PERSONAL.

IS IT GOING TO CHANGE YOUR LIFE? WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN? LET'S GIVE THESE PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT AND THEN WE CAN JUST GO AND DO WHATEVER.

SO THAT'S WHERE I AM WITH THAT.

I APPRECIATE US AND I APPRECIATE JUST DOING THE RIGHT THING AND GOING FORWARD, MAN.

YEAH, NO, IT'S MY TAKE AWAY IS WHAT YOU TOUCHED ON.

IT'S A COLLECTION OF THAT, RIGHT? YOU MENTIONED IT'S AN ISSUE TO GET INFORMATION OUT AND TO GET THE RIGHT INFORMATION OUT THAT THAT'S YOUR WORDS, RIGHT? AND THEN SO IF YOU HAVE A DYSFUNCTION, IT'S HARD TO DISMISS THAT INFORMATION OR GET THE CORRECT INFORMATION OUT.

AS YOU POINTED OUT. SO.

OUR CITY GETS A BAD REPUTATION AND THEN IT'S NOT POSSIBLE.

AND USING RON'S WORDS.

RIGHT. YOU HAVE PEOPLE THAT WANT TO GO WORK AND THEY DO A SEARCH ON DENTON AND THEY DON'T GET THE RIGHT INFORMATION.

THEY DON'T WANT TO WORK HERE.

THEY DON'T WANT TO LIVE HERE.

THEY DON'T WANT TO BRING THEIR BUSINESS HERE.

RIGHT. SO THOSE THINGS ARE CONSISTENT WITH WHAT YOU POINTED OUT.

AND THAT'S THE CONCERN.

IT IS NOT A EVERYTHING THAT WE TALK ABOUT TODAY IS NOT INTERNAL TO OUR ORGANIZATION AS A BODY.

IT'S THAT INFORMATION GETS OUT VIA NEWS STORIES THAT ARE INACCURATE, ACCURATE, WHATEVER, BUT THAT THAT GETS OUT AND THEN THERE'S NO WAY TO PUT THAT BACK OR THERE'S NO WAY TO REACH EVERYONE THAT HAS AN OPINION NOW AND TRY TO PERSUADE THEM OTHERWISE.

AND SO THAT'S THE CONCERN FOR ME.

AND AND I JUST WILL ABSOLUTELY SAY I'VE LIVED HERE ALL MY LIFE AND I AND I AND IT IS IMPORTANT TO ME THAT MY KIDS HAVE THE SAME EXPERIENCES AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE THAT I HAD SHOULD THEY CHOOSE TO LIVE HERE, SHOULD OTHER FAMILIES CHOOSE TO LIVE HERE? AND I THINK ACROSS THE NATION, SAFETY IS PARAMOUNT AND THOSE SORT OF THING.

SO I THINK THERE'S SOME TRIED AND TRUE GOALS THAT CAN BE AFFECTED BY OUR DECISIONS AND THEN THE MESSAGING AS WELL.

SO PEOPLE DO RESEARCH, RIGHT? YOU RESEARCH WHAT HOTEL YOU'RE GOING TO STAY IN, ALL THOSE THINGS, RIGHT? SO IT'S A KNOWN COMMODITY, WHETHER PEOPLE OR WHETHER WE LIKE IT OR LOVE IT.

AND HOW DO WE BEAT THAT BACK? WELL, I THINK WE CAN BEAT THAT BACK BY HOPEFULLY TURNING A PAGE AND FUNCTIONING WELL.

ERGO, THE INFORMATION OUT THERE.

AND CASE IN POINT, TAKE CITY OF DENTON.

TAKE CITY OF LOUISVILLE.

RIGHT. OUR NEIGHBORS HAVE NONE OF THE DISCUSSIONS WE HAVE.

[01:25:03]

AND SO IF YOU TAKE THAT AGAINST OUR WHAT, 56? IS THAT RIGHT? WE HAVE 56.

56. WE WERE 74.

YEAH. YEAH. SO? SO WE'RE AT 56.

THAT'S TERRIBLE. AND SO.

AND WE'RE RIGHT.

AND WE'RE RIGHT NEXT DOOR.

SO THE SAVINGS, IF WE DIDN'T HAVE SOME UNINTENDED, UNPLANNED EXPENSES TO OUR CITIZENS IS REAL MONEY.

I MEAN, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT PRICING PEOPLE OUT OF THEIR HOMES.

AND I TAKE THAT PERSONAL WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MY NEIGHBORS.

YOU KNOW, PEOPLE I'VE KNOWN THAT LIVE HERE, ELDERLY PEOPLE THAT LIVE HERE FOREVER, THAT WE HAVE TO WORK HARD.

COSTS ARE GOING TO DO WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO.

MARK'S GOING TO DO WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO.

BUT AS A CITY, WE CAN NOT SPEND INDISCRIMINATELY AND HELP GET THAT BACK IN LINE.

YOU KNOW, AND JUST TOUCHING ON ON WHAT YOU SAID IN KIND OF THE PURPOSE OF ALL OF THIS IS WHEN WE LOOKED AT THOSE STATISTICS EARLIER, I MEAN, WE'RE IN A DIVIDED COUNTRY AND OUR COMMUNITIES ARE NO DIFFERENT.

SO EVERY DECISION IS PRETTY MUCH GOING TO BE A 5050 SPLIT.

YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE 50% OF PEOPLE WHO SAY IT'S GREAT, 50% OF PEOPLE WHO MAY NOT.

SO YOU HAVE TO GET YOURSELF REALLY COMFORTABLE WITH THE FACT THAT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO PLEASE EVERYBODY, EVEN THE SPECIAL INTERESTS AND WHOEVER IS OUT THERE KNOCKING ON YOUR DOOR. BUT THE OTHER PART OF IT, THAT'S THE PURPOSE OF ALL OF THIS IS TO BUILD A SYSTEM THAT YOU ALL RESPECT AND THAT HOLDS UP IN THE FACE OF THOSE 50% WHO ARE UPSET OR NOT UPSET.

YOU CAN ALL POINT BACK, AS RON WAS TALKING ABOUT LAST NIGHT, TO THE INTEGRITY OF THE SYSTEM, NOT NECESSARILY THAT YOU WON, THAT YOUR VOTE WAS RIGHT.

BUT YOU CAN DEFEND THE FACT THAT IT WAS THOROUGHLY VETTED.

AND GUESS WHAT? WE CAME OUT ON THE LOSING SIDE OF THAT VOTE.

BUT IT'S THE SYSTEM THAT WE REALLY WANT TO IMPROVE.

AND THAT'S WHAT THIS IS INTENDED TO KIND OF DRILL DOWN INTO.

AND WE'LL GO THROUGH SOME OF THE SPECIFIC SCORES HERE IN JUST A SECOND.

BUT BUT POINT WELL TAKEN.

YES, I TOOK HEART BY THE BULK OF THE ROOM WAS WAS UNDER THE MIDPOINT.

YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE DOING IF YOU'RE DOING THE BELL CURVE DISTRIBUTION THE BULK NOW I THINK IF YOU'RE LEADING A SOCIETY YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE A POSITIVE OUTLOOK ON THE FUTURE POTENTIAL VISION OF THAT SOCIETY, WHETHER YOUR STAFF, WHETHER YOUR COUNCIL, YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE THAT YOU CAN MAKE AN IMPROVEMENT.

AND BY AND LARGE, EVERYBODY WAS UNDER HALF.

SO THAT LOOKS LIKE HOPE.

I ACTUALLY TAKE THAT AS A REALLY AWESOME SIGN THAT REGARDLESS OF HOW ELSE YOU SCORED INDIVIDUAL CATEGORIES.

THAT'S THAT'S A GOOD SIGN.

THAT MEANS WE BELIEVE IN IN THAT WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

THE WORST THING THAT COULD HAVE COME OUT OF THIS OR CAN COME OUT OF THIS IS IT'S SO BROKEN THAT WE'RE NOT EVEN GOING TO TRY TO FIX IT.

AND SO THIS TELLS ME THAT YOU ALL BELIEVE THAT THERE'S A BASELINE HERE AND THERE'S ONLY YOU CAN GO UP FROM THERE.

AND SO WHAT CAN WE DO TO MAKE OURSELVES MORE EFFECTIVE? NO ONE IN THIS ROOM HAS SAID TO ME PRIVATELY IN OUR CONVERSATIONS OR THROUGH THIS THAT IT'S SO BROKEN THAT IT'S NEVER GOING TO IT'S NEVER GOING TO BE BETTER.

IT'S HOW DO WE COME TO AN AGREEMENT AS A GROUP ABOUT THOSE SORT OF RULES OF ENGAGEMENT TO MAKE IT AS GOOD AND AS EFFECTIVE AS IT CAN BE.

BECAUSE NOW I'M GOING TO LOOK AT SARAH AND SAY, SARAH, WHAT WAS YOUR SCORE? 342. OKAY.

SO AND SORT OF SUMMARIZE WHERE YOU FEEL THE PINCH POINTS ARE.

WE'LL GO INDIVIDUALLY ON THE TENS, THE ONES IN THE SIX 2/9.

BUT JUST IN GENERAL, HOW DID YOU ARRIVE AT THAT SCORE? WHAT'S THE OVERALL.

I MEAN, I DON'T THINK THERE'S A CULTURE OF MUTUAL RESPECT.

THIS IS JUST MY OPINION. IT'S NOT THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PROFESSIONAL SIDE OF ME.

I THINK THERE'S NOT A CULTURAL MUTUAL RESPECT WHEN I SAY CULTURE IS ALL ENCOMPASSING.

I THINK SOMETIMES THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND.

I CAN'T FOCUS ON THE COMPLEX ISSUES.

THEY'RE TOO BUSY FOCUSING IN THE WEEDS.

AND THEY BEING THE COUNCIL.

OKAY. AND THIS, AGAIN, IS HOLISTIC, COMPREHENSIVE, NOT TOWARDS ANY PERSON.

I THINK THEY NEED TO SPEND MORE TIME ON LONG TERM PLANNING AND THINKING ABOUT THE FUTURE, BECAUSE I WORRY ABOUT THE FUTURE OF THE CITY, PARTICULARLY THE DOWNTOWN AREA.

AND GOVERNANCE ISSUES PARTICULARLY AND WHAT WHERE THEY SHOULD BE AT THE 100,000 FOOT LEVEL VERSUS DOWN IN THE 3000 FOOT LEVEL.

AND I THINK THERE'S NO GOOD MUTUAL TRUST THERE.

I THINK AND AND I CAN'T CHANGE THAT.

I CAN'T MAKE IT DIFFERENT.

BUT I SEE THAT AND I HATE IT BECAUSE EVERY ONE OF THE PEOPLE ON COUNCIL ARE WONDERFUL PEOPLE AND THEY ALL HAVE SUCH GREAT IDEAS AND GREAT THOUGHTS AND AND CARE SO MUCH ABOUT THIS COMMUNITY. EVERY ONE OF THEM.

THERE'S NOT ONE PERSON IN THIS ROOM THAT DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THIS COMMUNITY.

WHAT FRUSTRATES ME IS THE FACT THAT BECAUSE THEY'RE SO PASSIONATE AND THEY CARE SO MUCH, IF THEY COULD PUT ALL THAT ENERGY INTO DOING THOSE THINGS THAT MAKE THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCE FOR THIS COMMUNITY, WE WOULD BE AMAZING.

BUT THE POLARITY AND THE LACK OF TRUST WITH EACH OTHER AND THERE IS THERE'S A LACK OF TRUST AND THE LACK OF SUPPORT FOR EACH OTHER EVEN WHEN THEY DON'T AGREE.

[01:30:10]

SO IT WAS BASICALLY THAT.

I MEAN, I THINK I THINK VICKI SAID THIS, YOU KNOW, THERE'S GOOD SYSTEMS IN PLACE.

THERE'S THINGS IN PLACE. BUT WHERE I SCORED, WHERE IT RAISED MY SCORE WAS MORE ON THAT STRATEGIC FOCUS.

THEY WEREN'T LOOKING AT THE INTEGRITY OF THE GOVERNING PROCESS.

THERE WAS A LACK OF TRUST.

THERE'S A LACK OF RESPECT.

AND. AND THEY DON'T DEAL WELL WITH THAT.

THAT WHOLE ISSUE OF, OKAY, SOMEONE ISN'T BEHAVING WELL AS A GROUP, DON'T DEAL WELL WITH THAT BECAUSE IT'S LIKE, OKAY, WELL, THAT'S JUST HOW WE DEAL WITH IT.

AND I THINK.

IT MIGHT WORK BETTER IF THEY THEY HAVE THE RULES THAT SAY WHEN SOMEONE IS BEING.

AN OBSTINATE OR OUT OF CONTROL THAT THEY THEY AGREE THAT THAT'S NOT THAT'S NOT BENEFICIAL.

IT'S NOT HELPFUL. IT'S NOT GOING TO MOVE US FORWARD.

WE'RE SO LUCKY TO HAVE SO MANY PEOPLE THAT CARE.

AND I MEAN THAT I'VE WORKED IN COUNCILS, DIDN'T CARE AT ALL, DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON.

AND THIS WE'RE SO LUCKY TO HAVE THESE ALL OF THESE PEOPLE THAT CARE.

IT'S JUST A SHAME THAT THERE'S SUCH POLARITY THERE AT TIMES AND THERE'S OKAY TO BE POLARITY ON THE ISSUES, BUT IT'S NOT OKAY TO BE POLARITY ON PERSONAL ISSUES. AND AGAIN, THERE'S NO I'M NOT ATTACKING ANYONE PERSONALLY.

THIS IS MORE OF A COMPREHENSIVE VIEW AND.

I THINK WE COULD JUST DO SO MUCH MORE.

THE JOE AND I HAD A SIDEBAR WHILE WE WERE.

WHILE YOU WERE FINISHING YOUR ASSESSMENT.

THAT WAS ME. I WAS GOING TO POINT YOU OUT.

YOU'RE FINE. AND I KIND OF.

HE SAID SOMETHING TO ME THAT THAT KIND OF MADE ME THINK.

AND THIS IS ONE OF THOSE THOSE THINGS THAT'S GOING ON IN SOCIETY RIGHT NOW.

IT'S. THERE USED TO BE THE ABILITY FOR US TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT WE AGREED WITH AN ISSUE.

WE LIKED THE PERSON, DIDN'T LIKE THE PERSON, BUT WE STILL RESPECTED THE POSITION.

I MAY NOT LIKE YOU, BUT I RESPECT THAT YOU WERE ELECTED TO THAT POSITION OR YOU'RE SITTING IN THAT POSITION AND YOU HAVE THE POWER OF A VOTE IN THAT POSITION.

HOW WE HAVE ALLOWED THOSE WIRES TO GET SO CROSSED WHERE NOW IT BECOMES PERSONAL AND I PERSONALLY JUST DON'T RESPECT YOU.

I DON'T RESPECT YOUR AUTHORITY.

I DON'T RESPECT YOUR OPINION.

THAT HAS BECOME PART OF JUST OUR SOCIETY IN GENERAL.

AND SO WHAT WE AS A BODY CAN DO TO KIND OF SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT, I DON'T AGREE WITH HIM, BUT I AGREE WITH THE PROCESS.

I AGREE THAT HE WAS UP FRONT WITH ME OR THAT HE WAS HONEST WITH ME.

WE'RE STILL ON OPPOSITE SIDES, BUT HE HAS A VOTE JUST LIKE I HAVE A VOTE OR THE MAYOR HAS TO RUN A MEETING AND I'M GOING TO RESPECT THAT.

HE HAS THE AUTHORITY TO MAKE THAT DETERMINATION IN THIS ENVIRONMENT.

HOW DO WE GET BACK TO THOSE KINDS OF EXPECTATIONS AND THAT LEVEL OF RESPECT THAT TAKES THE PERSONALITIES OUT OF IT? EASIER SAID THAN DONE, BUT IT JUST SEEMS THAT IT HAS SLIPPED FURTHER AND FURTHER OR THE SCALE HAS TILTED FURTHER AND FURTHER THAT WAY, WHERE WE NOW NO LONGER REALLY HOLD RESPECT FOR THE POSITION ITSELF.

AND SO ALL OF THIS DISCUSSION IS, IS TO TRY TO GET US TO A POINT WHERE WE CAN FIGURE OUT BEST PATH FORWARD SO THAT WE CAN ALL HONOR EACH OTHER, EVEN IF WE DISAGREE WITH EACH OTHER. BUT, YOU KNOW, ANOTHER THING THAT SARA YOU TOUCHED ON AND IT'LL KIND OF BUBBLE UP IN THIS, BUT, YOU KNOW, YOU ALL AS A BODY ARE PUT IN A POSITION WHERE YOU ARE ASKED TO MAKE A DECISION THAT YOU ARE GOING TO GET EVERY BIT OF THE BLAME FOR TODAY AND ABSOLUTELY NONE OF THE CREDIT FOR TOMORROW.

THAT'S REALLY WHERE YOUR POWER LIES.

IT'S THE SAYING WE'RE GOING TO PASS THIS BOND THAT'S GOING TO BUILD OUT ROADS FOR THE NEXT 30 YEARS, WHATEVER THAT IS.

AND YOUR YOUR NAME IS NOT GOING TO BE ON THAT ROAD.

NO ONE'S GOING TO REMEMBER THAT YOU WERE THE ONE WHO PASSED WHATEVER THAT THING IS.

MAYBE A BUILDING YOU'LL GET YOUR NAME ON.

BUT BUT REALLY, THAT IS THE LITMUS TEST.

THE LITMUS TEST IS THIS DECISION.

I AM SO SURE ABOUT IT BEING THE RIGHT THING FOR THE NEXT 50 YEARS OF THIS COMMUNITY THAT I AM WILLING TO TAKE ALL OF THE BLAME TODAY AND GET NONE OF THE CREDIT TOMORROW.

BUT INSTEAD WE'RE COMPELLED BY THE ONESIE TWOSIES BECAUSE YOU GET CREDIT FOR.

WELL, I GOT THAT THAT ISSUE FIXED.

I GOT THAT THING FIXED FOR THAT PERSON.

I GOT THAT THING ON THE AGENDA FOR THE PERSON.

AND THAT'S IMPORTANT TO THE PROCESS, TOO.

BUT WE NEED TO DO IT IN A WAY THAT DOES NOT MAKE ALL 151,000 OTHER PEOPLE SUFFER BECAUSE THAT ONE PERSON GOT GOT FAVORITISM.

EVERY TIME WE PLUCK ONE OF THOSE OUT AND ELEVATE IT, THAT PERSON WHO CALLS YOU DIRECTLY AND WANTS THAT POTHOLE FIXED AND YOU MAKE THAT PHONE CALL AND THAT POTHOLE GETS FIXED.

[01:35:05]

NOT INTENTIONALLY.

THEY WERE IN THE SYSTEM JUST LIKE WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE.

THEY WERE THE ONES WHO GOT IN LINE AND FILLED OUT THE LITTLE ONLINE FORM AND SAID, I NEED WHATEVER THIS SERVICE IS.

BUT YOU JUST USURPED THAT WHOLE PROCESS FOR THIS INSTANT GRATIFICATION.

THE BEST THING YOU CAN DO AS A AS A COUNCIL PERSON IS TO TEACH THEM HOW TO USE THAT SYSTEM.

TEACH THEM HOW TO GO FILL OUT THAT THING.

TELL THEM WHERE THEY CAN GET THE RESOURCE RATHER THAN BEING THE HERO.

EASIER SAID THAN DONE, BUT THAT IS WHERE SYSTEMS GET OUT OF SYNC.

THAT'S WHERE SYSTEMS GET OUT OF WHACK BECAUSE THERE BECOMES THIS FAVORITISM OR THIS ABILITY THAT I CAN JUST CALL MY COUNCIL MEMBER AND HE'S GOING TO GET ME MOVED UP ON THE LIST. WELL, WHO IS THAT HARMING IN THE PROCESS? BECAUSE YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE LOOKING AT THE BIG PICTURE.

I'LL GET OFF THAT HIGH HORSE.

GO AHEAD, SARA. IT JUST WOULDN'T BE INTERESTING TO ME IF IF THE COUNCIL MEMBERS SOMEWHAT FEEL THE SAME WAY.

I MEAN, I'D LIKE TO KNOW HOW THEY FEEL.

THIS IS HOW I SEE IT.

AND IT'S NOTHING PERSONAL.

I JUST SEE THAT LACK OF TRUST, THAT LACK OF RESPECT, AND AND I SEE IT IN THEIR FACES SOMETIMES AND IT BREAKS MY HEART IN THEIR FACES.

THE BEAT DOWN, NOT RESPECTED FOR THEIR VIEWPOINT.

YOU KNOW, THE DYNAMICS ARE DISRESPECTFUL TO EACH OTHER SOMETIMES.

AND I YOU KNOW, IT'S TELEVISED.

HAVE YOU ALL HEARD THIS FROM STAFF BEFORE? DID YOU KNOW THIS WAS THEIR PERSPECTIVE? I'VE HEARD IT. I'VE HEARD IT.

UH, IN TERMS OF.

WE'RE REALLY WHAT WE NEED TO DO IN THIS CITY AND REALLY EVERYWHERE ELSE, BUT PARTICULARLY HERE, IS THAT WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THESE PEOPLE THAT ARE IN ADMINISTRATIVE ROLES HERE, THIS IS THEIR JOB.

THESE PEOPLE GO TO GO TO UNIVERSITIES, TO MAJOR IN URBAN PLANNING AND, YOU KNOW, AND ALL OF THESE OTHER THINGS AND POLITICAL SCIENCE AND AND LAW. YOU KNOW, THEY THEY'RE USING THEIR KNOWLEDGE AND SKILLS TO HELP US, THE PEOPLE, ALL OF US, THE HOMELESS, THE WEALTHY, THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE AIRPLANES, THE PEOPLE THAT RIDE BIKES, WHATEVER THEY I TRUST THESE PEOPLE TO DO THE VERY BEST FOR ME, MY POLICE OFFICERS, MY FIREFIGHTERS, THE PEOPLE THAT ARE JUST MAKING THESE KIND OF DECISIONS.

WE HAVE PLANNING BOARDS.

IT'S ALL HERE FOR US.

BUT SOME OF US THINK THAT WE ARE JUST ABOVE AND BEYOND ALL THIS.

AND I DON'T WANT MY CITY MANAGER, NOR MY FINANCE PERSON, NOR MY JUDGE OR ANYONE ELSE, MY POLICE CHIEF. I WANT THEM TO KNOW THAT WE APPRECIATE WE AS A COMMUNITY REALLY DO APPRECIATE THEM, AND WE'RE GLAD THAT THEY WORK HERE.

I WOULD DEFEND THIS ADMINISTRATION TO THE END, BUT I ALSO DEFEND THE COMMUNITY.

WE DO HAVE TO DO A BETTER JOB IN MAKING SURE THAT THE COMMUNITY KNOWS THAT WE ARE HERE FOR THEM.

WE'RE NOT AGAINST THE COMMUNITY, BUT WE HAVE A HIGHER INSIGHT THAN THE COMMUNITY DOES.

WE'RE THE ONES THAT HAVE TO HEAR ABOUT THE LANDFILL AND ALL OF THIS DYSFUNCTION, IF THERE IS.

AND SO AND THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND ALL OF THAT.

WE TAKE ALL OF THAT AND WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE RESPECTFUL TO THOSE PEOPLE THAT HAVE DECIDED TO WORK HERE.

THE MAYOR SAID, OH, THEY LOOK AT US AND THEY DON'T WANT TO WORK HERE AND THEY DON'T WANT IF THEY DECIDE TO WORK HERE.

LET'S BE RESPECTFUL OF THAT.

SOMEBODY TALKS ABOUT A CITY COUNCIL MEMBER TO ME, OH, WE DON'T LIKE THE WAY THEY DO THAT.

WE YOU.

THAT'S YOUR ISSUE.

THAT'S NOT MY ISSUE. HERE'S THE PHONE NUMBER.

IT IS THE PHONE NUMBER RIGHT THERE.

OKAY. SO I'M TALKING TO THE COMMUNITY NOW.

WE'RE HERE. WE'RE THE ONES THAT'S IN THE MIDDLE TO HELP YOU GET WHAT YOU NEED.

IT. DON'T BE RESPECTFUL TO THESE PEOPLE.

THEY CAN GO ANYWHERE.

ALL THE CITIES ARE GROWING.

ALL THE CITIES NEED PROFESSIONALS AND THEY WILL PAY THE PRICE.

AND FOR US TO BE DISRESPECTFUL, WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO DO, THEY COME IN FRONT OF US.

THEY SAY, OKAY, HERE'S THE ISSUE YOU BROUGHT BEFORE US.

WE DID A WORK SESSION ON IT.

NOW WE'RE COMING BACK.

WE'RE GIVING YOU THESE CHOICES.

IF WE RUSH THIS IN YOU, A, B OR NOTHING AT ALL.

WE'VE DONE THE RESEARCH.

WE HAVE LAWYERS THAT DO THE RESEARCH, PLANNING PEOPLE THAT DO THE RESEARCH, AND THEY COME BACK AND SAY, WE HAVE A, B OR NOTHING AT ALL AND THEY GIVE US THE INFORMATION.

[01:40:01]

AND WHAT DID THEY SAY AND WHAT DID YOU DO AND HOW DID YOU DO THAT? FOR ME, THAT'S DISRESPECTFUL.

THESE ARE PROFESSIONALS.

THEY'RE TELLING YOU WHAT IT IS.

AND THEN.

ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS SAY OUR PIECE.

THEN WE'RE GOING TO VOTE ON IT AND THEN WE'RE GOING TO MOVE ON TO SOMETHING ELSE.

BUT THAT HANG UP.

THAT HANG UP BACK THERE.

SOMETIMES OUR MAYOR WILL GET INTO A LITTLE DIATRIBE HERE, RESPECTFULLY SPEAKING, OF COURSE.

AND HE WILL SAY HIS PIECE AFTER THE VOTE.

AND I LOOK OVER AND HE'S STILL TALKING ABOUT WHAT WE JUST VOTED ON.

AND I DON'T KNOW WHY, AND I DON'T HAVE TO KNOW WHY, BUT I THINK THAT THAT KIND OF PUTS A LITTLE HOLE IN THERE BECAUSE THE PEOPLE THAT DID NOT VOTE WITH HIM ARE SAYING, OKAY, WELL, WE VOTED ON IT ALREADY.

AND WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT BEFORE.

THAT'S NO SECRET HERE.

BUT I LIKE FOR US TO SAY EVERYBODY HAS A CHANCE TO SPEAK.

SOMETIMES SOME PEOPLE SPEAK SO LONG AND YOU'RE SITTING THERE SAYING, OKAY, AND THEN OTHER PEOPLE, THEY GET READY TO SPEAK.

SO OTHER PEOPLE WILL, YOU KNOW, MAY WANT TO SPEAK.

AND THEN THERE'S THIS. OKAY, WELL, WE DON'T HAVE MUCH TIME.

ALL RIGHT. SO SOME OF THAT HAPPENS.

THAT'S OKAY. I STILL HAVE A VOTE EVEN IF I DO HAVE 30S TO SPEAK.

AND THAT'S OKAY BECAUSE IT BOILS DOWN TO THE VOTE.

SO I APPRECIATE ALL OF THAT.

BUT I REALLY LIKE TO SEE A LEVEL OF BALANCE THERE, SOME EQUITY.

AND IF YOU'RE GOING TO I HAD A CITIZEN TO ASK ME, WELL, WHY DO WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO SPEAK AT THE DAIS? CAN YOU ASK THEM FOR TEN MINUTES? AND I SAID, OH, HELL NO, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO GET YOU TEN MINUTES.

I JUST TRY TO GET ONE DONE.

AND I LITERALLY BROUGHT ONE MORE EXTRA MINUTE IN AND ASKED MY PEERS, CAN WE SPEAK FOR FIVE MINUTES? AND THEY SAID NO.

SO THAT WAS ENOUGH.

OKAY. SO THAT'S FOR THE PUBLIC.

AND AND I WASN'T TRIPPING ON THAT, YOU KNOW, BUT THAT'S JUST THE WAY IT WAS.

SO LET'S TAKE ALL OF OUR OUR EMOTION OUT OF THIS AND LET'S JUST DO THE THING IN A PRACTICAL WAY.

AND I THAT'S THAT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, JUST WHAT I THINK THAT WE SHOULD DO AND WE SHOULD BE RESPECTFUL WHEN WE DON'T AGREE WITH YOU AND WE DON'T VOTE WITH YOU.

IT'S OKAY.

OUR MEMORIES ARE VERY SHORT.

WE MOVE ON. YES.

NEXT. YEAH.

YOU KNOW, I'M CLEARLY THE NEW GUY HERE.

I CERTAINLY AM.

AND. BUT.

BUT I'VE BEEN. I'VE BEEN IN DENTON FOREVER.

FOREVER. AND.

AND I DON'T LIVE IN A VACUUM.

I KNOW. I HEAR THINGS.

I KNOW WHAT I KNOW THAT THERE'S THERE'S THERE'S A CONFLICTS AND PEOPLE WHO ARE UNHAPPY WITH OTHER PEOPLE.

BUT LET ME TELL YOU, MY EXPERIENCE.

I'VE BEEN HERE JUST A VERY, VERY SHORT WHILE.

SIX WEEKS OR SO.

TO A PERSON.

EVERYBODY HAS BEEN HELPFUL TO ME.

I HAVE AND I'VE ASKED.

LISTEN, PLENTY OF DUMB QUESTIONS.

PLENTY. AND THANK YOU AND AND SOME MORE THAN OTHERS.

BUT I HAVE NOT GOTTEN ANYTHING.

BUT HOW CAN I HELP? HOW? HOW CAN I HELP YOU? LET ME HELP YOU WITH THIS.

AND. AND I HAVEN'T GOTTEN AN EYE ROLL.

I HAVEN'T GOTTEN A LIKE VICKI DOES WITH HER CLASSMATE.

I HAVE GOTTEN FROM FROM FROM FROM FROM MY COLLEAGUES ON THE COUNCIL OR FROM STAFF MEMBERS.

EVERYBODY TO A PERSON HAS GONE OUT OF THEIR WAY TO BE HELPFUL TO ME.

I'D LIKE TO SEE THAT CONTINUE.

I'D LIKE TO SEE NOT NOT TO HELP THE NEW GUY, BUT TO HELP ALL OF US GUYS TO TO DO OUR JOB BETTER.

I'D REALLY, REALLY LIKE TO SEE THAT IT'S BEEN NOTHING BUT BUT BUT COMFORTING TO ME.

AND AND AND I'VE BEEN.

I'VE BEEN MADE TO FEEL WELCOME.

SO LET'S PEEL THAT ONION JUST A LITTLE BIT.

OH, JEEZ. SO LET'S PEEL THAT FIRST LAYER OFF.

AND THE CONSPIRACY THEORISTS, THOSE DAIRY QUEEN FOLKS ARE GOING, OH, THEY'RE COURTING YOU.

THEY'RE COURTING YOU TO TO BE ON THEIR SIDE AND TO VOTE THE WAY YOU WANT THEM TO OR THEY WANT YOU TO WRITE.

CAN I ASK A QUESTION? WHEN YOU'RE REFERRING, YOU'RE REFERRING BOTH TO STAFF BEING VERY HELPFUL AND ALL THAT, AND YOU'RE ALSO REFERRING TO US, YOUR COLLEAGUES, IS THAT CORRECT? ABSOLUTELY. OKAY. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT.

YES. YEAH. OKAY. SO SO SO THAT FIRST LAYER IS THE CONSPIRACY THEORISTS AND SOME OF THEM IN THIS GROUP WHO ARE A LITTLE MORE JADED THAN OTHERS MAY BE THINKING, OH, WELL, THEY'RE JUST TRYING TO COURT HIM TO THEIR SIDE.

RIGHT. WHEREAS I BET YOU'RE THINKING THEY ARE TRYING TO BE HELPFUL.

I HAVEN'T. WE DON'T HAVE ANY BEEF.

I DON'T HAVE ANY BEEF WITH ANYBODY.

[01:45:02]

AND SO WHERE DO WE BRIDGE THAT GAP? WHERE WE FIGURE OUT WHERE WE CAN LET GO OF OLD BEEFS AND GET BACK TO THIS? WE WANT TO HAVE A DECENT, GOOD, FUNCTIONAL RELATIONSHIP WHERE I DON'T FEEL LIKE YOU'RE TRYING TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF ME AND PULL ME TO YOUR SIDE OR LEAVE ME ASTRAY OR USE ME FOR YOUR PURPOSES.

AND I THINK THAT'S IT'S WHERE ALL THOSE LITTLE ASSUMPTIONS START TO CREEP IN.

AND YOU HEARD THIS FROM THIS PERSON OR THIS PERSON DID SAID THEY WERE GOING TO DO THIS AND THEN THEY DID THE OPPOSITE.

SO THEY LIED TO ME. SO NOW I'M PERSONALLY OFFENDED BY THAT.

AND IT'S HOW DO WE GET BACK TO THAT HONEYMOON STAGE? HOW DO WE FIGURE OUT HOW TO HAVE THAT MUTUAL RESPECT FOR EACH OTHER AS HUMAN BEINGS AND RESPECT EACH OTHER'S POSITIONS WITHOUT ALLOWING ALL OF THIS PERSONAL STUFF TO TO COLOR OUR ENGAGEMENTS? YES, PLEASE. SO I WANT TO SAY, YOU KNOW, OUT OF RESPECT FOR THE FACT THAT SARA WANT US TO SPEND THIS DAY DOING EXACTLY THIS, I THINK, YOU KNOW, IT WOULD BE MOST HELPFUL IF I COULD BE IF I CAN REALLY TELL IT LIKE IT IS.

AND I WOULD SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, BEING KIND TO JOE IS THE CENTRAL DYNAMIC PROBABLY IS FOR YOU, THOUGH, ALTHOUGH I'LL PIVOT OFF OF THAT, YOUR FRIENDLY FELLOW JOE, AND IT'S VERY EASY TO INTERACT WITH YOU.

I SUSPECT WE AGREE ON MANY THINGS.

I SUSPECT WE'LL WILL DISAGREE ON MANY THINGS, BUT I DON'T THINK IT WILL BE A DIFFICULT THING.

I DISAGREE WITH THAT. YOU KNOW, TELL ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT I BELIEVE THAT THE MAYOR FEELS STRONGLY THAT MOST OF US SHOULDN'T BE HERE, DO EVERYTHING HE COULD TO HAVE US NOT BE HERE.

AND AND WE HEAR FROM THE MAYOR, WE HEAR FROM COUNCIL MEMBER WATTS QUITE FREQUENTLY IN THEIR AIR TIME, KIND OF PERSONAL SHOTS, LIKE YOU'RE RACKING UP, YOU KNOW, SCORES IN A IN A PINBALL GAME.

YOU KNOW, LIKE IF I CAN MAKE ENOUGH PERSONAL SHOTS, I CAN GET SOMETHING.

THAT'S HOW THE TIME GETS USED.

I ENJOY MOST WHEN WE CAN JUST BE CONTRIBUTING IDEAS TO SOLVE PROBLEMS. YOU KNOW, I'M SAYING ALL THIS NOW, I KNOW I'LL GET THE ARROWS, BUT LIKE I SAID, IT'S OUT OF RESPECT FOR YOU.

YOU PUT US HERE TO DO THIS, SO LET'S DO IT.

I'M GLAD YOU'RE SAYING WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.

YOU KNOW, I'M ALWAYS I FEEL, OF COURSE, MY TELLING THEM I'M THE VIRTUOUS ONE IN MY STORY, YOU KNOW, BUT I FEEL I'M ALWAYS LISTENING FOR WHERE I CAN GET A BETTER IDEA IF THERE'S A CRITIQUE OF SOMETHING I PUT FORWARD, IF I DISAGREE OR DISAGREE.

BUT SOMETIMES YOU'RE RIGHT AND I WANT TO BUILD IN THE BITS THAT ADD UP TO THE BEST IDEA.

AND THAT'S THE MOST THAT'S THE MOST ENJOYABLE, IS WHEN COUNCIL REALLY DOES, WHEN EVERYBODY CONTRIBUTES.

AND TO GET TO A BETTER SOLUTION THAN YOU STARTED WITH.

SO. AS.

OKAY. FIGHT ME. FIRST ERA.

I'M CHEATING. YEAH.

I'VE GOTTEN BEATEN TWICE.

I'VE BEEN PURPOSED NOT TO PURPOSELY.

NOT TO MENTION NAMES AND BE GENERAL.

RIGHT. I'VE GOTTEN. I GOT.

I GOT CALLED OUT TWICE.

NOT GOING TO RECIPROCATE.

I'M GOING TO SAY THIS.

FACTS. NOW MAYOR PRO TEM AGAIN CAMPAIGNED AGAINST ME OPENLY.

COUNCILMAN BYRD OPENLY CAMPAIGNED AGAINST SITTING COUNCIL MEMBERS.

THIS IS MY OPPONENT FROM THE LAST RACE AND OPENLY CAMPAIGNED AGAINST ME.

OBVIOUSLY TO BE EXPECTED.

WELL-KNOWN COUNCIL OPENLY CAMPAIGNED AGAINST ME.

SO I DO KNOW. THAT'S A FACT.

THAT'S A FACT. IT'S A FACT.

LOOK IT UP. IT'S ON.

IT'S ON SOCIAL MEDIA. YOU CAN LOOK IT UP.

SO WHAT I'M SAYING IS.

IT'S ODD TO ME THAT THE PERSON THAT'S PART OF THE COLLECTIVE THAT TRIED TO NOT HAVE ME SITTING HERE IS SAYING, I DON'T WANT THEM THERE, AND THEN I CHALLENGE YOU TO DO THE SAME.

GO LOOK AT ANYTHING DOCUMENTED ON ANYTHING ANYWHERE AND FIND ME OPENLY CAMPAIGNING AGAINST ANYONE IN THE ENTIRE TIME THAT I'VE BEEN ON COUNCIL.

SO 2017 TO TODAY.

FIND ANYTHING THAT SAYS I WAS OPENLY SAYING THIS OR THAT PERSON SHOULD NOT BE AT THE DAIS.

SELECT SOMEONE ELSE.

IT JUST DOESN'T EXIST. SO I UNDERSTAND THAT.

WHAT? IT'S THE JOB, RIGHT? I UNDERSTAND THAT I'M ABOUT.

I'M. I WAS AT 356 SARA IS AT 342.

SO WE'RE NEIGHBORS.

I'LL SAY THIS.

ON THE TIME CERTAINLY WANT TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION BECAUSE I CAN'T TAKE BREAKS TO GET US OUT ON TIME SO THAT STAFF CAN COME BACK. LIKE LITERALLY WE DON'T GET TO GO TO THE BATHROOM BECAUSE PEOPLE TALK AND THEY'RE NOT CONSIDERATE OF EACH OTHER.

[01:50:02]

BUT THE FIRST SPEAKER IS NOT MINDFUL THAT OTHERS HAVE TO SPEAK.

SO I ABSOLUTELY AGREE THERE'S A TIME ISSUE AND I ABSOLUTELY AGREE WE SHOULD DISCUSS THAT.

BUT I'M JUST SAYING I TRY TO DEFER AS OFTEN AS POSSIBLE.

AND I'LL TELL YOU, IT WAS MENTIONED, SO I'M GOING TO MENTION IT.

I MENTION IT EVERY YEAR, EVERY YEAR THAT HE SPEAKS AFTER THE VOTE COMES UP EVERY YEAR, I SAY, HEY, WHEN WAS THAT? AND THE ANSWER IS TWO YEARS AGO, BECAUSE YOU CAN WATCH EVERY ONE OF OUR MEETINGS.

YOU CAN SEARCH THE TRANSCRIPTS THERE IN BOTH ENGLISH AND SPANISH.

YOU WON'T FIND ME SPEAKING AFTER A VOTE.

YOU JUST WON'T. IT WAS IT WAS NOTED THE FIRST TIME THE BEHAVIOR WAS CHANGED.

IT COMES UP EVERY YEAR AT THIS TIME BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW WHY, BUT IT'S FAIR, YOU KNOW? HEY, IT'S OCCUPATIONAL HAZARD.

SO TO ALL THAT, I SAY LOOK FORWARD TO THE DISCUSSION.

AND I DO BELIEVE AND SO AND JUST TO FURTHER IN TRANSPARENCY, THE ISSUE IS THIS.

DO YOU BELIEVE.

RIGHT. AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO ANSWER THIS RHETORICAL.

DO YOU BELIEVE THE CITY OF DENTON CITY COUNCIL SHOULD IGNORE LEGAL ADVICE, SHOULD IGNORE BEST PRACTICES, ADVICE AND TACKLE A MARIJUANA ISSUE? DO YOU BELIEVE THE CITY OF DENTON SHOULD IGNORE LEGAL ADVICE AND PROFESSIONAL ADVICE AND TACKLE A RESOLUTION ON WOMEN'S RIGHTS AND ABORTION ISSUES? DO YOU BELIEVE THE CITY OF DENTON COUNCIL SHOULD IGNORE LEGAL ADVICE AND PROFESSIONAL ADVICE AND TACKLE MEDICAID FOR ALL? RIGHT, BECAUSE THOSE ARE THE CONTENTIONS.

THOSE ARE THE FLASH POINTS.

WE WE WE SPENT THREE HOURS THIS LAST MEETING.

LOOK IT UP. TIME IT UP.

IT'S ALL DOCUMENTED.

THREE HOURS TALKING ABOUT MARIJUANA.

WE SPENT 20 MINUTES TALKING ABOUT ALMOST $200 MILLION IN BONDS.

SEEMS OUT OF WHACK.

AND IT SEEMS LIKE THAT INVITES EMOTIONAL ISSUES, THAT THERE'S A REASON THERE'S NOT EXTRA POLICE IN THE CHAMBERS WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT $200 MILLION IN BONDS.

AND THERE'S AND WE HAVE EXTRA POLICE TALKING ABOUT MARIJUANA, WOMEN'S RIGHTS, ETCETERA.

RIGHT. THOSE ARE EMOTIONAL ISSUES THAT ARE GOING TO BITE STRIPE INVITE CONFLICT ON AREAS THAT WE WE'RE TRYING TO HIRE ENOUGH PEOPLE AND FUND THAT WE'RE ABSOLUTELY NOT.

WE'RE GOING TO FALL SHORT OF OUR GOAL OF MEDICAID FOR ALL.

BUT THAT'S ON THE BOOKS, YOU KNOW, AND SO THE CITY OF DENTON IS GOING TO SOMEHOW CONTRIBUTE TO THAT CONVERSATION.

SO. WELL, A NUMBER OF THINGS.

NUMBER ONE IS THE NATURE OF THE GAME IS THAT SITTING COUNCIL PEOPLE ARE GOING TO HAVE CAMPAIGNED AGAINST YOU.

IT'S JUST THE NATURE OF THE GAME.

IT FEELS PERSONAL.

IT SUCKS. IT'S ABOUT YOU HAVE TO GET TO A POINT WHERE YOU CAN ACCEPT IT'S ABOUT THE POSITION AND NOT ABOUT THE PERSON, RIGHT? THEY WANT THEIR PERSON IN THAT SEAT.

BUT ULTIMATELY YOU WON.

ULTIMATELY YOU WON. YOU'RE SITTING IN THE SEAT.

SO BUT FOR ALL OF WHATEVER IT IS, THE GRIEVANCES THAT YOU MAY HAVE WITH THEM, YOU STILL WON BECAUSE YOU AND YOUR ESTIMATION PROBABLY RAN A GOOD CAMPAIGN.

YOU DID WHAT YOU NEEDED TO DO AND YOU'RE THERE.

AND THE PEOPLE SAW THAT IT WAS FOR THE CORRECT PURPOSE.

SO AT SOME POINT YOU HAVE TO GET TO A POINT WHERE YOU CAN JUST RELEASE IT AND SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT? NATURE OF THE GAME.

IT'S WHAT IT IS. THEY'RE DULY ELECTED.

I WON. I'M DULY ELECTED, AND WE'RE JUST GOING TO MOVE ON DOWN THE ROAD BECAUSE CHANCES ARE IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN AGAIN.

CORRECT. BUT FOR IT JUST GOT BROUGHT UP THAT I DON'T.

YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN. I WOULD NOT HAVE BROUGHT IT UP.

BUT FOR I THINK IT'S IT WAS ABSOLUTELY MISCHARACTERIZED.

RIGHT. LIKE I'M OKAY WITH IT.

I WOULDN'T HAVE BROUGHT IT UP TO SAY, HEY, THIS IS A PAIN.

THIS IS A POINT OF CONTENTION FOR ME.

BUT HE POINTS OUT THAT I DON'T WANT THEM HERE.

I'M LIKE, WELL, WAIT A MINUTE, THAT SEEMS RIGHT.

WELL, AND THAT WAS THAT WAS A PERSONAL OPINION OF HIS ON HIS PART.

BUT IF THAT'S NOT YOUR OPINION.

YEAH, WHOEVER SAY THAT.

SO, SO I MEAN, I WOULD HAVE EXPECTED THAT YOU MIGHT SAY.

I NEVER SAID THAT.

YEAH, WE'RE ON OPPOSITE SIDES OF MANY ISSUES, BUT I WOULDN'T.

YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? LIKE, HOW DO WE PEEL THAT THE PERSONAL AND NOT HEAR THAT AS A PERSONAL ATTACK OR A PERSONAL OFFENSE EVEN WHEN IT IS MAYBE INTENDED TO BE PERSONAL? I DON'T KNOW. I'M NOT GONNA PUT WORDS IN YOUR MOUTH.

WELL, THE I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANT TO CALL IT PERSONAL, BUT IT'S THE PROCESS PART.

IT'S NOT ABOUT IT'S NOT ABOUT RUNNING FOR WHO RAN? WHO DID YOU TALK WITH? EVERYONE.

IT'S MY MY PERCEPTION IS THAT YOU DON'T GENUINELY WANT TO WORK WITH THE MAJORITY OF MEMBERS AND NOW COULD BE ENTIRELY MISREADING ON MY PART.

I'M TRYING TO BE AS OPEN AS I CAN BECAUSE I THINK WOULD BE HELPFUL.

BUT THIS IS YOU LOOK AT HERE'S MY TRUE THOUGHTS AND THAT SOME OF THAT MAY SIMPLY BE MY INTERPRETATION OF THE FACT THAT, AS YOU SAID, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T WANT TO TALK TO PEOPLE.

YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE WORKING WITH PEOPLE USUALLY.

I WAS TALKING TO THEM. SO.

[01:55:01]

HOLD ON A SECOND. YEAH, GO AHEAD. I WAS BROUGHT UP IN THAT POINT AS WELL, SO I WANT TO BE ABLE TO RESPOND.

FIRST OF ALL.

AS FAR AS YOU TAKING AS FAR AS ME TAKING SHOTS AT YOU, PAUL? I'M A I'M ASSUMING YOU'RE EITHER MEETING IN THE YOU'RE NOT MEETING THIS COUNCIL SESSION EXCEPT WHEN YOU AND MAYOR PRO TEM BROUGHT UP ABOUT WHY YOU THINK YOU GOT ELECTED OR HOW YOU THINK YOU GOT ELECTED, THE INFLUENCING FORCES AND YOU ALL GAVE YOUR PERSONAL OPINION.

I JUST SIMPLY GAVE MY OWN PERSONAL OPINION.

SO IF WE'RE GOING TO SAY IT, IF YOU'RE GOING TO SAY IT LIKE IT IS, I DON'T CARE WHETHER YOU'RE HERE OR NOT, YOU GOT VOTED.

SO YOU ARE HERE AND YOU'RE AN IMPORTANT PART OF THIS.

BUT MY PROBLEM IS THIS.

YOU YOU MADE A STATEMENT.

YOU SAID WE'VE MADE A DECISION FULLY VETTED AS MUCH.

I'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR 13 YEARS.

YOU WERE ON COUNCIL WITH ME WHEN I WAS MAYOR.

SO I'VE BEEN DOING THIS A LONG TIME.

WHEN PEOPLE DISAGREE OR NOT, I DON'T.

THERE'S VOTES I'VE LOST.

THERE'S VOTES. I'VE WON. I'VE VOTED FOR TEAMS THAT PEOPLE WOULDN'T THINK I WOULD VOTE ON AND I VOTED AGAINST.

SO THIS IS THIS IS NOTHING NEW.

THE PROBLEM THAT I'M SEEING IN THIS LAST YEAR IS WE ARE DECIDING THINGS THAT ARE NOT FULLY VETTED.

FOR EXAMPLE, YOU AND MAYOR PRO TEM HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT SHOULD WE PROVIDE TRANSPORTATION FROM COOLING STATIONS TO THE SHELTER? TO ME, THAT'S A POLICY DECISION.

THAT'S NOT A COUNCIL.

THAT'S NOT TWO MEMBERS OF COUNCIL TALKING TO THE CITY MANAGER, COMING UP WITH ARITHMETIC KIND OF COMPUTATIONS.

AND THIS IS UNDER YOUR. SO THIS IS MY PROBLEM.

YOU AND I HAVE AGREED ON MANY VOTES.

YOU AND I HAVE AGREED NOT ON MANY VOTES, BUT THIS BEHIND THE SCENES, THIS BEHIND THE SCENES MANEUVERING, THIS PUTTING FORWARD ISSUES THAT GO STRAIGHT FROM A TWO MINUTE PITCH TO A VOTE WHERE WE'VE NOT VETTED ANYTHING.

I DON'T CARE IF WE DISAGREE.

BUT IF WE'RE MAKING DECISIONS THAT ARE NOT BASED UPON INFORMATION, I MEAN, WE'VE HAD AN ABORTION RESOLUTION WHICH REALLY ISN'T IN OUR PURVIEW.

GO STRAIGHT TO A VOTE.

WE HAD A MARIJUANA PROPERTY ORDINANCE COME TO A VOTE THAT WE NEVER TALKED ABOUT ON COUNCIL.

WE TALKED ABOUT IT ON THE DAIS IN FRONT OF 150 PEOPLE.

THAT WAS OUR FIRST CONVERSATION ABOUT IT.

AND SO I DON'T CARE WHAT COMES TO ME AS A VOTE.

LORD, I'M A BIG BOY. I VOTED ON A LOT OF THINGS THAT WERE PRETTY CONTROVERSIAL, BUT I WILL NOT TOLERATE AND I WILL FIGHT AGAINST IT TILL I CAN'T BREATHE. WHEN WE HAVE PEOPLE GOING BEHIND THE SCENES TRYING TO CREATE INFLUENCES.

IF IT'S THAT IMPORTANT, BRING IT TO THE COUNCIL.

I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE PERSONAL SHOTS AT YOU, PAUL.

AND I THINK IF YOU GO BACK AND EVERYBODY LOOKS AT IT, I'VE VERY RARELY PROACTIVELY WITHOUT ANY KIND OF INFLUENCE.

SO I'M JUST SAYING THAT'S YOUR OPINION.

YOU'RE ENTITLED TO YOUR OPINION.

I'M NOT GOING TO SAY ANYTHING PROBABLY EXCEPT IN RESPONSE, BUT I DO NOT ACCEPT GOING BEHIND THE SCENES BECAUSE THIS IS THE PROBLEM.

YOU CAN ASK THE CITY MANAGER THIS.

THERE'S SO MANY CONVERSATIONS, FOR INSTANCE, AND I'M GOING TO BE QUIET AFTER THIS.

WE HAD A VOTE ON A PUBLIC FACILITY CORPORATION TO HELP US WITH AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

ALL RIGHT. I AM GOING TO LEAVE NAMES OUT.

AND I HAVE IT UNDER GOOD REPORT, WHICH I DON'T CARE THAT I'VE HEARD THAT PEOPLE HAVE SAID, WELL, THAT WAS A POLITICAL DECISION IN FAVOR.

IT TIED BECAUSE WE ONLY HAD SIX MEMBERS.

I DON'T CARE IF I LOSE A VOTE.

BUT LET'S MAKE SURE.

AND I'VE HAD TO CHECK MYSELF TOO.

AM I SUPPORTING THIS OR NOT SUPPORTING IT? BECAUSE THE PERSON WHO'S MAKING IT OR BECAUSE IT'S IT'S GOOD FOR THE CITY OF DAYTON.

AND UNTIL WE DO THAT, UNTIL WE ALL CAN MAKE A COMMITMENT TO THAT, THAT IF WE HAVE A REAL BEEF OR WE HAVE SOMETHING THAT WE WANT TO BRING UP, LET'S BRING IT TO THE FULL BODY FOR AN OPEN, TRANSPARENT DISCUSSION AND TO WE ALL INDIVIDUALLY MAKE A COMMITMENT TO THAT PROCESS, NO MATTER WHETHER I DISAGREE OR NOT.

I MEAN, I DON'T. PEOPLE DISAGREE WITH ME ALL THE TIME, BUT IT'S THAT IT'S THAT BREAK IN, THAT PROCESS.

THIS TIME WE'RE SPENDING HERE WILL BE IN VAIN IF WE DON'T MAKE A COMMITMENT.

NO MATTER HOW WE FEEL ABOUT EACH OTHER PERSONALLY OR HOW WE FEEL ABOUT WHATEVER, THAT WE WILL CONSIDER THESE ISSUES AS A BODY AND NOT TRY TO.

DO THESE THINGS? WELL, WE'RE WE'RE OUR COMMUNITY IS IN TROUBLE BECAUSE WE'RE NOT GOING TO GET ANYTHING DONE.

LET'S LET'S GO BACK TO INPUT OUTPUT.

[02:00:04]

WHAT IS THE EXPECTED OUTPUT? AFTER HE GETS ELECTED.

RIGHT. SO THERE'S GOING TO BE BLOWBACK.

THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME LEVEL OF DISTRUST THAT IS CREATED BY THAT.

AND I'M NOT SAYING THAT ANYBODY SHOULD NOT EXERCISE THEIR OPINIONS AND THEIR RIGHTS, BUT WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THAT THERE WILL BE A REASON WHY THEY MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE A ONE ON ONE CONVERSATION WITH ME, BECAUSE IS THIS GOING TO BE USED TO ACTIVELY CAMPAIGN AGAINST ME? SO THAT'S JUST THE NATURAL COURSE OF BUSINESS.

IT IS TO YOU TO RISE ABOVE THAT AND FIGURE OUT HOW TO ENGAGE WITH EACH OTHER IN A WAY THAT FEELS MUTUALLY BENEFICIAL AND SAFE.

THE OTHER INPUT VERSUS OUTPUT IS I HAVE HEARD, AND IT'LL COME UP ON ONE OF THESE SLIDES.

I HAVE FOUR VOTES.

OKAY, THAT'S GREAT.

YOU DO HAVE FOUR VOTES, BUT WHEN YOU SAY I HAVE FOUR VOTES, THEREFORE IT'S JUST GOING TO GET PUSHED THROUGH.

YOU'VE SUBVERTED THE SYSTEM.

YOU HAVEN'T HONORED THE SYSTEM THAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT WHERE YOU FULLY VET SOMETHING, YOU TALK ABOUT IT, YOU RESEARCH IT, YOU WORKSHOP IT, YOU DO ALL OF THOSE THINGS. AND IF YOU HAVE YOUR FOUR VOTES, IT'S GOING TO STAND THE TEST OF TIME.

BUT LET'S DO IT IN A TRANSPARENT MANNER WHERE EVERYONE HAS HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO WEIGH IN.

THE PUBLIC HAS BEEN GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO WEIGH IN SO THAT WE CAN ALL DEFEND THE SYSTEM THAT MADE THAT DECISION, EVEN IF WE DISAGREE WITH THE DECISION THAT WAS MADE.

DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HERE FOR.

AND SO SOME OF THESE ISSUES WE'LL SEE AGAIN IN MORE CONCISE TERMS TO TALK THROUGH AND THEN SOME POTENTIAL SOLUTIONS FOR THOSE.

BUT I APPRECIATE THE DISCOURSE AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT YOU HEAR.

AND SO THOSE OF YOU WHO HAVE BEEN QUIET SO FAR AND I SAW YOUR HAND EARLIER, SO I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU THE FLOOR HERE IN A SECOND.

IT'S IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO SAY OUT LOUD THESE THINGS, BECAUSE IF YOU DIDN'T SAY IT TO ME ON THE PHONE INTERVIEW AND I DON'T HAVE IT TO PUT UP HERE, BUT IT'S STILL A FESTERING ISSUE, I'D RATHER WE GET IT OUT THERE SO THAT WE CAN POTENTIALLY MOVE FORWARD IN A MORE POSITIVE WAY TO BUILD A SYSTEM THAT SUPPORTS THE INTENDED OUTCOME OF THIS SESSION.

SO, BRICK, YOU DID YOU HAVE A WELL, I COULD TALK ALL DAY, SO I'M TRYING TO BE MINDFUL OF OUR TIME.

SURE. I MEAN, I JUST TO HIT TWO PARTICULAR POINTS ON THIS ISSUE OF RIGHTS RIGHTS FROM THE SHELTER TO THE RIGHT, FROM COOLING STATION TO SHELTER.

TIME SENSITIVE, 100 DEGREE HEAT.

PEOPLE. HUMAN BEINGS.

SUFFERING. SOMETIMES IT REQUIRES A SHORT TERM RESPONSE AND THAT'S WHY IT'S WITHIN CITY.

CITY MANAGER HAS DISCRETION.

SO, YOU KNOW, IF THE ANSWER IS NO, THE ANSWER IS NO.

BUT. THAT'S WHY SOMETIMES THINGS ARE TIME SENSITIVE.

AND THEN ALSO THE OTHER COMMENTS.

NICE TO SEE THAT I HAVE THOUGHTS IN MY IN MY BROW.

YOU KNOW, THE STORY DIDN'T START WITH.

WITH I'M GOING TO OPPOSE YOU FOR OFFICE.

WHY DID I DO THAT? I'VE BEEN WORKING TOGETHER OR.

SO I WOULD HAVE HOPED IT'S BECAUSE I DIDN'T FEEL THAT THAT THERE WAS A CONSTRUCTIVE RELATIONSHIP THAT.

YOU KNOW, THAT THAT YOU NEED TO BE WORKING TOGETHER AND THAT MIGHT.

THAT WAS MY REASON TO RUN.

SO IT DIDN'T WORK OUT.

AND I SPENT A YEAR DOING OTHER THINGS.

SO NOW I'M BACK.

BRANDON, WELCOME.

THANK YOU. I JUST WANTED TO GET SOME CLARIFICATION ON WHAT YOU SAID.

YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE PFC, BUT YOU SAID A POLITICAL DECISION AND A VERSUS OF WHAT? WHAT ARE YOU ARGUING FOR OTHER THAN THE DECISION? THAT'S ALL. OKAY.

I WANT TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND YOUR QUESTION.

SO IF I HEAR THAT IT FAILED BECAUSE IT WAS A POLITICAL DECISION, WHAT IS MY BEEF WITH THAT? IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE ASKING ME? YES. WHAT WOULD YOU PREFER? JUST MORE WELL VETTED. IS THAT YOUR POINT? NO. WHAT I'M SAYING IS, IF SOMEONE'S MAKING A DECISION ABOUT AN AFFORDABLE HOUSING PROGRAM, NOT BASED UPON THE MERITS, NOT BASED UPON THE FACTS OF THE SITUATION, BUT IT'S LIKE, WELL, FOR SOME REASON, EITHER IT GOES AGAINST THE HOUSING AUTHORITY BECAUSE WHAT'S PRESENTED IT, I'M NOT GOING TO SUPPORT IT.

IN OTHER WORDS, IT INSERTS THE CONSPIRACY THEORY.

I DON'T CARE. I MEAN, LORD KNOWS I'VE BEEN THROUGH TOO MUCH OF THIS.

NOBODY'S GOING TO HURT MY FEELINGS.

MY CONCERN IS WE'RE HURTING THE COMMUNITY.

EVERY DECISION WE MAKE OR DO NOT MAKE IMPACTS OUR COMMUNITY.

SO I RESPECT VOTES BECAUSE IN THE END, THE COMMUNITY'S GOING TO LET US KNOW, IS THIS WHAT WE NEED TO DO OR IS THIS WHAT WE NOT NEED TO DO? THROUGH THROUGH THE BALLOT BOX.

BUT I MEAN, WHEN THINGS GET WHEN DECISIONS ARE MADE FOR THAT REASON.

BRANDON THAT'S WHEN BECAUSE IT'S LIKE, OH, WELL, TOO BAD.

WELL, WE LOST AN OPPORTUNITY MAYBE TO HAVE SOME AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

NOT BECAUSE IF YOU DISAGREED THAT WE NEEDED MORE TIME OR BECAUSE YOU MENTIONED THAT, BUT IF THAT'S THE MINDSET.

[02:05:05]

IT'S SO IT'S IT'S SAD BECAUSE WE'RE NOT HURTING OURSELVES.

WE'RE HURTING THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE ELECTED US TO SERVE THEM.

SO THAT'S IT. IT'S NOT IT'S JUST IF IT'S POLITICAL, IT MEANS IT'S NOT BASED UPON ANYTHING OTHER THAN, WELL, SOMETHING THAT OTHER THAN WHAT IT REALLY IS.

SO THAT'S IT. I APPRECIATE THAT PERSPECTIVE.

AND ULTIMATELY, I MEAN, THAT IS WE KEEP GOING BACK TO SYSTEM SYSTEM SYSTEMS. AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO UPHOLD THE INTEGRITY OF THE PROCESS THAT MADE THE DECISION INSTEAD OF DEVALUING IT BY SAYING POLITICS, BECAUSE IT INSERTS THAT ASSUMPTION THAT THERE WAS SOMETHING NEFARIOUS GOING ON OR THAT IT WASN'T GENUINE.

AND SO HOW DO WE MAKE SURE THAT THE DELIBERATIVE PROCESS IS AS UP FRONT AND AS TIGHT AS IT CAN BE IN ORDER THAT EVERYBODY'S NEEDS ARE MET? AGAIN, NOT USURPING THE THE PROCESS? I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE ARE TIMELY OR TIME SENSITIVE.

THAT'S ALWAYS GOING TO BE A THING.

BUT YOU CAN BUILD INTO THE PROCESS HOW THOSE THINGS ARE HELD OR HOW THEY ARE HANDLED.

SO SO WE WERE GOING TO GO THROUGH THE SCORES OF 1 TO 10.

LET'S JUST DO THE TEN. ANYBODY HAVE TENS ON THEIR SHEET? LIKE THE WORST OF THE WORST? YOU HAD A TEN.

ALL RIGHT, LET'S HEAR IT. WHICH ONE WAS IT? TEN ONES? NO, TEN WHAT? ROSE TO THE TEN, YOU SAID.

WHICH ONE? YEAH.

WHAT? OH, YOU HAD A FEW.

LET'S DO IT. WE'RE TOO INVOLVED IN MANAGEMENT.

GIVE US THE NUMBER. THIS IS NUMBER SIX.

OKAY. NO, SIX.

ANYBODY ELSE HAVE THAT AS A TEN? OH, OKAY. YOU HAD A TEN TO VICKI I DIDN'T HAVE IT AS A TEN, BUT I CERTAINLY DO UNDERSTAND IT.

OKAY. OKAY.

AND YOU HAD IT AS A TEN.

SO STAFF AND SOME OF THE COUNCIL MEMBERS.

OKAY. WHAT'S MY NEXT TEN? THE NUMBER 15 FOCUSES ON NON-BOARD RESPONSIBILITIES.

OKAY. ANYBODY ELSE HAVE THAT AS A TEN? WHAT NUMBER WAS THAT? 15.

15. OKAY.

NEXT 17 EFFECT OF LONG TERM PLANNING.

OKAY. ANYBODY ELSE? OH, DID YOU. DID YOU.

DID YOU COPY? I'M JUST KIDDING.

OKAY. 21 BYRD CONFUSION OVER WHO THEY REPRESENT.

OKAY. 22 BOARD TOO INVOLVED IN DETAILS.

OKAY. 23 BOARD STRUGGLES TO DEVOTE NEEDED TIME.

ANYBODY ELSE? OKAY.

24 BYRD SUSPICIOUS AT EACH OTHER.

THAT SHOULD BE LIKE. I MEAN, FROM THIS WHOLE THING, WE SHOULD ALL HAVE OUR HANDS RAISED AT THIS POINT, RIGHT? I MEAN THAT CLEARLY.

EXCEPT MAYBE JOE. I THINK THAT'S I THINK THIS IS EXACTLY I MEAN, I OPENED THE DOOR.

I KIND OF CRACKED THE WINDOW THERE.

BUT THAT'S THE CRUX OF IT.

I MEAN, I'M GLAD THEY GOT ALL THIS HAPPENING BECAUSE, AGAIN, I MADE IT VERY CLEAR AND THIS IS NOT PERSONAL.

I LIKE EVERYONE IN THIS ROOM AND I RESPECT THEIR POSITION.

AND IN MANY CASES, I AGREE WITH A LOT OF THE THINGS THEY SAY.

IT'S THE DYNAMICS OF NOT BEING ABLE TO WORK TOGETHER AND THE RESPECT FOR EACH OTHER.

I DON'T FEEL LIKE I JUST FEEL SOMETIMES THEY DON'T RESPECT STAFF OR STAFF'S TIME, BUT I'VE NEVER FELT LIKE THEY MISTREATED US OR HATED US OR WERE MEAN TO US.

IT'S MORE ABOUT THE VALUE OF OUR TIME AND THE RESPECT FOR OUR KNOWLEDGE, AND THEY HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO QUESTION THINGS.

IT'S MORE THE DYNAMICS WITHIN THEMSELVES AND THEN UNDERSTANDING AND APPRECIATING OUR KNOWLEDGE, SKILLS AND ABILITIES AND RESPECTING US FOR THAT.

IT'S MORE I'M MORE CONCERNED.

IS THERE DYNAMICS AND HOW THEY WORK WELL TOGETHER? BECAUSE I THINK IF THEY WERE STORMING, FORMING, NORMING, YOU KNOW, AND GOING DOING THEIR THING, THINGS WOULD BE GREAT FOR US BETTER BECAUSE WE WOULD SEE HOW WELL THEY'RE WORKING TOGETHER. LET ME TELL YOU HOW IT FEELS TO STAFF COUNCIL WHEN YOU ALL ARE ARGUING.

IT FEELS LIKE MOM AND DAD ARE FIGHTING ALL THE TIME AND YOU KNOW THEY'RE GOING TO GET DIVORCED, BUT YOU DON'T KNOW WHICH SIDE TO TAKE.

I MEAN, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT IT'S LIKE BECAUSE IT'S SO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU DO? YOU HIDE IN YOUR ROOM.

I NEVER WENT THROUGH THAT.

I HAD FRIENDS WHO WENT THROUGH THAT.

BUT BUT IT IS THAT YOU DON'T KNOW WHICH WAY TO TURN.

AND PEOPLE ARE PITTED AGAINST EACH OTHER AND YOU DON'T WANT TO PLAY FAVORITES, BUT YOU NEED TO RESPOND TO THIS ONE.

YOU NEED TO RESPOND TO THAT ONE.

AND THEY ARE PUT IN THIS VERY DIFFICULT POSITION.

AND OFTENTIMES WHEN THE BOARD ISN'T GOVERNING ITSELF, THEY LOOK TO A CITY ATTORNEY OR A CITY MANAGER TO TO TO BE THE REFEREE.

[02:10:02]

WELL, AND I DO WANT TO SAY ONE THING, BECAUSE I THINK.

I'M HONESTLY MEAN WHEN I SAY THERE'S THINGS ABOUT ALL OF YOU I AGREE WITH ON THINGS FROM A PERSONAL PERSPECTIVE, I THINK SOME OF YOU WOULD BE SHOCKED FOR US.

BUT THE OTHER SIDE OF IT IS WHEN.

WHEN YOU FROM A CITY MANAGER POINT OF VIEW, I HAVE TO GIVE YOU ALL THE FACTS AND TRY TO MAKE SURE YOU HAVE EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION AND THEN LAY IT OUT THERE FOR YOU. AND WHEN YOU MAKE THAT DECISION, WE'RE GOING TO AS A WHOLE, WE'RE GOING TO DO IT NO MATTER WHETHER A COUPLE OF YOU DON'T LIKE IT OR NOT.

AND THE OTHER SIDE OF IT IS WHEN WE DO GET INFORMATION FROM A COUPLE OF COUNCIL MEMBERS, I HAVE TO MAKE SURE I'M ASKING MYSELF, IS THIS SOMETHING ALL THE COUNCIL MEMBERS SHOULD BE WEIGHING IN ON? BECAUSE I DON'T WANT IT TO LOOK LIKE, EVEN THOUGH I MAY AGREE WITH THEM OR DON'T AGREE WITH THEM, THAT I'M PICKING FAVORITES OR HAVING FAVORITES FROM ONE SIDE TO THE OTHER.

SO IT IS IT'S DIFFICULT.

AND THAT'S WHY I WHEN I SEE THAT SOMETHING'S GOING TO BUBBLE AND I KNOW NOW, MAX TOLD ME I'VE GOT TO BE CAREFUL BY SENDING OUT EVERYTHING TO YOUR BLIND COPYING BECAUSE I'M CREATING THE THEN YOU ALL RESPOND AND STUFF.

I'VE GOT TO BE CAREFUL. BUT LIKE ON THE ON THE COOLING CENTERS, YOU KNOW, IT STARTED WITH FRANK AND THEN I GOT INVOLVED.

AND THE TRUTH IS WE'RE DOING A LOT TO HELP PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY.

ALL OF OUR VEHICLES HAVE WATER IN THEM AND ALL OF OUR STAFF KNOW IF SOMEONE'S STRUGGLING.

WE NEED TO HELP THEM. FRANK PERSONALLY HAS GONE OUT AND OFFERED RIDES.

OUR POLICE OFFICERS, OUR HOT TEAM ARE DOING THAT.

IF IT'S A MATTER OF ME SPENDING MORE MONEY, I'M HAPPY TO DO IT.

BUT I THINK THE WHOLE COUNCIL NEEDS TO TELL ME TO DO IT.

AND I DON'T WANT TO JUST PICK ONE OFF.

BUT I ALSO KNOW SOME PEOPLE IN OUR COMMUNITY ARE STRUGGLING.

I PERSONALLY WOULD OFFER WATER TO PEOPLE.

I WILL SEE IF THEY'RE OKAY.

WE HAVE A VERY CARING GROUP OF STAFF AND THEY ALL ARE CARRYING WATER WITH THEM, NOT JUST THE OUR NONPROFIT THAT HAS THE WATER OUT IN THE DIFFERENT AREAS, BUT WE ALSO KNOW OUR HOT TEAM WILL OFFER TO TRANSPORT PEOPLE.

MANY PEOPLE WON'T DO IT.

IF WE FEEL LIKE SOMEONE'S STRUGGLING, WE WILL.

WE'LL CALL THE AMBULANCE, WE'LL CALL PARAMEDICS.

POLICE WILL TRANSPORT.

IF AND I TOLD THIS TO THE TEM, I SAID, IF THIS IS A PRIORITY FOR COUNCIL, LISTEN, Y'ALL TELL US AND WE WILL WORK HOW YOU WANT TO DO IT.

WE'LL WORK WITH DCTA TO SEE IF THEY CAN TAKE SOME OF THEIR OWN FUNDING THAT'S ALREADY BEING ALLOCATED.

$17 MILLION ARE COMING FROM THIS CITY TO FUND THAT.

AND IF THAT'S WHAT Y'ALL WANT TO DO, I WILL DO IT IN A NEW YORK MINUTE.

I'LL WORK WITH PAUL.

CHRISTINA I'M HAPPY TO DO IT BECAUSE I WANT PEOPLE TO HAVE WHAT THEY NEED.

I DON'T WANT ANYONE TO BE IN A DIRE SITUATION.

WE HAVE A FACILITY OUT THERE THAT WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE HAVE A PLACE TO SLEEP, WARM MEALS, SANDWICHES ON THE WEEKENDS, MENTAL HEALTH, MEDICAL CARE, ALL THOSE THINGS THAT WE WERE DOING FOR THEM.

WE HAVE NOT DONE A GOOD JOB.

AND I ADMIT THIS, AND THAT'S WHY I'M WORKING ON HIRING A CHIEF COMMUNICATIONS OFFICER.

WE HAVE NOT BEEN PROACTIVE IN GETTING THAT MESSAGE OUT.

AND SO WE DESERVE SOME OF THE CRITICISM WE GET.

BUT WE ARE TRYING.

AND SO I DON'T FAULT SOMEONE FOR WANTING TO DO GOOD THINGS.

I JUST DON'T WANT TO BE GET THAT CALL FROM ANOTHER COUNCIL MEMBER, WHICH HAPPENS, WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING? YOU KNOW, WE HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT THIS BECAUSE IT'S TRUE.

WE HAVE IT. AND IF ALL OF YOU CAN AGREE THAT I'M FINE, YOU ALL DIRECT ME TO DO WHATEVER YOU DO, WHETHER I LIKE IT OR NOT, WE'RE GOING TO DO IT.

AND I WILL WORK WITH STAFF TO DO IT.

WHATEVER IT IS, WE'LL GIVE YOU OUR HONEST OPINION.

AND WE MAY NOT LIKE IT, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, THAT'S WHO I REPORT TO.

SO I JUST WANT TO MAKE THAT CLEAR BECAUSE WE'RE TRYING TO DO EVERYTHING WE CAN, BUT WE ALSO HAVE SOME EXPERIENCE ON THE OTHER SIDE THAT WE'RE HAPPY TO SIT DOWN AND TALK TO YOU ABOUT THAT. NOW, MORE AND MORE PEOPLE ARE COMING HERE BECAUSE WE'RE DOING MORE AND MORE THINGS AND WE ARE EXPERIENCING OTHER CITIES DROPPING PEOPLE OFF.

THAT'S OKAY IF THAT'S WHAT YOU ALL WANT TO DO, BUT YOU ALL NEED TO TALK ABOUT THAT AND IT NEEDS TO GO THROUGH THIS CYCLE.

IF IT'S A BIG PICTURE ISSUE AND YOU'RE JUST TREATING SYMPTOMS OF TRANSPORTING PEOPLE HERE AND THERE, IS THAT PART OF THE WHOLE SOLUTION.

AND THAT'S WHERE I THINK THE STRATEGIC VISIONING PROCESS THAT YOU GO THROUGH AND STRATEGIC PLANNING AND STUFF COMES INTO PLAY.

BUT AGAIN, STAFF TAKES THEIR DIRECTION WHEN COUNCIL AFFIRMS AND AFFIRMATION IS A MAJORITY VOTE.

SO THE ONES HE CHOOSES SOME THINGS WE WILL WE WILL.

I MEAN, STOP SIGNS DOWN, NOT SAY WE'RE GOING ON TOP OF IT IMMEDIATELY.

SOMETHING ELSE HAPPENS AND WE'RE ON TOP OF IT.

SOME CITIZEN CALLS ME AND IS UPSET ABOUT SOMETHING.

WE ARE INVESTIGATING THOSE KINDS OF THINGS I HAVE.

WE'RE GOING TO JUMP ON THAT LIKE CRAZY.

BUT IF IT'S THAT MORE WE NEED TO BE LOOKING AT THIS, WE NEED TO BE DOING IT.

I MAY NOT. I MAY AGREE.

ABSOLUTELY. IT'S JUST I WANT TO MAKE SURE EVERYONE GETS GETS TO TELL ME WHAT TO DO SO THAT IT'S A COMPREHENSIVE VOICE.

NOT NOT JUST TO BUT IT'S ALSO IT'S IMPORTANT TO THE INTEGRITY OF THE BODY FOR IT TO BE A TRANSPARENT PROCESS IN WHICH IT IS DONE, BECAUSE IF NOT, THE PUBLIC GOES, OH, WELL, I GUESS THEY'RE FAVORING THIS SIDE OF TOWN OR THEY'RE FAVORING THIS GROUP OF ACTIVISTS OR WHAT ELSE IS FALLING.

[02:15:08]

IT'S PROCESSED TERRORISM.

THAT'S NOT THE THAT'S NOT THE ANSWER.

THE ANSWER IS THAT WE HAVE TO HONOR THE PROCESS IN EVERYTHING THAT WE DO, BECAUSE IF NOT ALL OF THE ASSUMPTIONS, ALL OF THE CONSPIRACY THEORIES, ALL OF THE DISRUPTIONS TO STAFF AND WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO DO, AND THEN ULTIMATELY THE WHOLE SYSTEM STARTS TO CRUMBLE OR FAIL BECAUSE WE'RE NOT HONORING THAT PROCESS AND THAT THAT SYSTEM THAT WE'VE PUT IN PLACE.

SO, AGAIN, THIS IS ALL ABOUT TIGHTENING UP THE SYSTEM, IF THAT IS YOUR WILL, SO THAT WE CAN ALLEVIATE SOME OF THAT.

AND WE CAN POINT BACK TO WE WENT THROUGH THE PUBLIC HEARING PROCESS.

WE WENT THROUGH THE WHATEVER I ADVOCATED FOR YOU, BUT WE LOST.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, RATHER THAN SAYING IT'S POLITICS TO ROUND THAT WHOLE DISCUSSION OUT.

SO ANY OTHER TENTS? GIVE ME MORE. TENS.

48. OKAY.

OH, WE MOVED IT. WE SKIPPED AN ENTIRE PAGE.

WE DID? WELL, YOU'RE WELCOME. SHORT TERM DECISION FOCUSED.

YEAH. NO ONE'S SEEMS LIKE SUCH A NICE GUY.

I KNOW. AND THEN HE JUST HAMMERS YOU WITH THE TALKING ABOUT A BAD DAY.

I THOUGHT THIS WAS AN OPEN.

IT IS. THIS IS.

YEAH, THAT'S. THAT'S IRONIC BECAUSE.

BECAUSE HE CHOSE INEFFECTIVE LONG TERM PLANNING.

SHORT TERM DECISION.

IT ONLY MAKES SENSE, RIGHT? YEAH.

YEAH. BECAUSE INSTEAD OF FOCUSING ON THE LONG TERM, WE ONLY FOCUS ON THE SHORT TERM.

SO A LOT OF THEM PLAY TOGETHER.

NOT ONLY IN THAT SENSE SACRIFICES PROCESS FOR DECISION.

WE TALKED ABOUT THAT ALREADY TODAY.

RIGHT. AND THEN THE LAST ONE BOARD TREATS HIM AS JUST AN EMPLOYEE.

WHAT WAS WHAT NUMBER WAS THAT? 50. THAT IS A TEN DIGIT NUMBER.

WAS THAT 50? NUMBER 50. YOU WANT TO HIGHLIGHT THAT ONE? I DIDN'T HAVE THAT.

ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANY OF THOSE? DID YOU? DID YOU DID.

YEAH. I HAVE ALL OF PAGE 37 IS TEN BY THE WAY, EXCEPT FOR 131 IS A FIVE EVERY EVERYTHING ON PAGE FROM 25 TO 30 7 TO 10.

25 TO 37 IS A TEN, EXCEPT FOR 31.

SO TREAT EACH OTHER WITH DISRESPECT, STAFF WITH DISRESPECT, SURPRISE EACH OTHER, PLAY GOTCHA PERSONAL AGENDAS, FOCUSING ON PARTS OF THE WHOLE ARTICULATE INCOMPETENCE, DRIVE ISSUES, INTERNAL SQUABBLES OVER SMALL STUFF, TIME WASTED ON SMALL STUFF.

COMPLEX CONFLICT DEBATE LINGERS AFTER THE VOTE, DISAGREEMENTS BECOME PERSONAL AND THE CULTURE OF LINGERING RESENTMENT.

I MEAN, THAT SHOULD BE NO SURPRISE TO ANYBODY BECAUSE THAT'S KIND OF WHAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT AND WHAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT.

AND THE INDICATOR THE INDICATOR IS 24.

RIGHT? HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE THAT AS A TEN BASED ON THE CONVERSATION WE HAD, IF YOU EXPLORE THAT, IF EVERYONE DOESN'T HAVE THAT AS A TEN, THEN WE DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THE INSTRUCTIONS. YEAH, NO, ABSOLUTELY.

AND THERE WERE A LOT OF HANDS AT TEN.

NOW, SOME PEOPLE MAY HAVE HAD I THINK JOE PROBABLY DIDN'T HAVE A TEN BECAUSE THAT HASN'T BEEN HIS EXPERIENCE YET.

BORED, SUSPICIOUS OF EACH OTHER.

24 WELL, THE GOOD NEWS IS HOPEFULLY THAT NEVER HAPPENS WITH HIM.

I MEAN, I'M NOT HOPING THAT HE DOES COME IN AND I'VE WATCHED MAYOR PRO TEM HELP HIM WITH STUFF.

HE'S ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

MY HOPE IS THAT IT CONTINUES TO BE THE WAY HE FEELS IS THAT HE'S GETTING THE HELP HE NEEDS.

HE HAS A MUTUAL RESPECT FOR ALL OF HIS COUNTERPARTS BECAUSE HE HASN'T BEEN IN THE CAGE A LONG TIME.

BUT HERE HERE'S THE DOUBLE EDGED SWORD IN THAT CAGE.

OKAY. ALL RIGHT. I HEARD THAT, TOO.

GOSH, LOOK AT THE TIME I GOT THOSE LACES GETTING ON.

YEAH. HERE'S THE DOUBLE EDGED SWORD IN THAT IF YOU'RE IF IF HE WERE TO BE I'M NOT SAYING THIS IS WHO HE'S GOING TO BE, BUT IF HE WERE TO BE JUST COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY ENAMORED WITH THE THOUGHT THAT HE'S GOING TO BE EVERYBODY'S FRIEND, THIS ENTIRE ENGAGEMENT FOR THE NEXT TWO YEARS, THAT COULD MAKE HIM FURNITURE, IF YOU WILL, WHERE IT'S NOT I'M NOT GOING TO ENGAGE IN THE PASSIONATE DEBATES OR I'M GOING TO TRY TO BE EVERYBODY'S FRIEND.

AND IS THAT GOING TO LEAD YOU TO THE MOST AUTHENTIC.

DECISION OF WHAT YOU TRULY BELIEVE.

I'M CERTAINLY NOT SAYING THAT ABOUT YOU, BUT THERE IS A THERE CAN BE A COMPULSION TO KEEP THE PEACE AND THAT CAN SHUT PEOPLE DOWN AND HAVE THEM MAKING DECISIONS THEY WOULDN'T OTHERWISE MAKE.

SO THERE'S A BALANCE.

YOU NEED THAT HEALTHY DISCOURSE, THAT HEALTHY DEBATE, BUT IT HAS TO BE BASED IN RESPECT AND A TRUST, NOT NECESSARILY THAT I WOULD TRUST YOU WITH MY LIFE, BUT I TRUST THAT YOU'RE GOING TO HONOR THE PROCESS WE'VE PUT IN PLACE.

AND I TRUST THAT YOU'RE GOING TO RESPECT THE DECISION ON THE OTHER END, WHICHEVER WAY IT GOES, I DON'T THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE A PROBLEM.

NOT TO JUMP IN, BUT JUST TO PIGGYBACK, JOE'S BEEN HERE FOR SIX WEEKS.

AND JOE, I THINK WE VOTED THE OPPOSITE THREE QUARTERS OF THE TIME, AND YET WE'RE STILL DOING COLLEAGUE AND CAMARADERIE LIKE BEHAVIORS.

[02:20:05]

THERE YOU GO. BRANDON.

YOU KNOW WHAT I SEE? I SEE A BUNCH OF FOLKS LAUGHING AND INTERACTING ABOUT THIS IN A JOVIAL WAY THAT TELLS ME WE CAN GET BETTER.

I THINK SO. AND THAT'S WHEN WE MOVE INTO OUR NEXT SECTION.

SOME OF THE TAKEAWAYS FROM WHAT I'VE READ THROUGH THE SOME OF THE MORE PARTICULAR ISSUES IS THAT THERE IS A SENSE THAT THIS CAN BE BETTER, IT SHOULD BE BETTER, WE CAN BE BETTER, AND THAT WE ALL WANT ULTIMATELY WHAT'S BEST FOR THIS COMMUNITY.

IT'S NOT TO BURN IT DOWN.

I THOUGHT I THOUGHT RON'S COMMENTS LAST NIGHT ABOUT THIS IS THE ONLY ORGANIZATION WHERE YOU WOULD BE PUT ON A BOARD OF DIRECTORS FOR TRYING TO PUBLICLY DESTROY THAT ORGANIZATION. YOU KNOW, GOING AFTER THEY'RE THE WORST AT WHATEVER.

THEY'RE THE WORST AT THIS AND THAT AND THE OTHER.

IT'S THE NATURE OF OF THE POLITICAL ARENA.

IT'S THE NATURE OF GOVERNMENT.

BUT WE DON'T HAVE ANYONE ON THIS BOARD WHO HAS SAID, LET'S JUST BURN IT DOWN.

SO ALL OF THIS IS VERY HOPEFUL AND PRODUCTIVE TO ME BECAUSE HOPEFULLY WHAT IT'S GOING TO DO IS GIVE US SOME CLARITY MOVING FORWARD ABOUT WHERE THERE IS ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT AND WHERE THERE IS AGREEMENT ON THAT IMPROVEMENT.

ANY OTHER TENANTS? WAS IT ALL OF PAGE? I MEAN, THE MAYOR JUST BASICALLY WAS LIKE, I'M NOT GOING TO MONOPOLIZE ANYBODY ELSE.

I, YOU KNOW, TENS.

OKAY. ANYBODY THINK WE'RE PERFECT AT ANYTHING ONCE? NO. KNOW YOU HAD ONE? I DID HAVE A ONE. GIVE IT TO ME.

I'M A COMPASSIONATE GUY. THE AGENDA.

PREPARATION. OH, YEAH.

OKAY. I HAVE TWO, BUT NOT A ONE.

BECAUSE YOU KNOW THE BACKGROUND STRUGGLE.

YEAH. IS THAT WHY IT'S.

IT'S VERY DIFFICULT.

YOU KNOW, WHEN WE DO ALL THAT, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT.

THESE ARE GOOD. THEY'RE GOOD.

IT'S JUST. IT'S A LONG.

IT'S A LOT OF WORK. AND THEN IT'S ALWAYS TIME CONSTRAINTS, VERY TIME CONSTRAINTS.

BUT THE STAFF DO A GREAT JOB FOR US.

SO THAT'S THAT'S MY ONE.

I WANT TO GIVE CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE.

AND SHE'S IN THE ROOM. HIGH CONFIDENCE AND SERVICE OF DELIVERY COSTS.

I MEAN, IF YOU'VE NOT VISITED OUR WEBSITE AND THE ACCOUNTABILITY AND THE AUDITING AND THAT SORT OF THING IS EXEMPLARY.

I MEAN, I THINK WE ARE I'M BIASED.

I'M A BIG FAN OF HERS. BUT BUT THEY'RE DOING GREAT WORK.

SO. AND THE BONDS, RIGHT.

IT'S LIKE, YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHERE WE ARE, WHERE THE MONEY IS.

IT MAY NOT SHAKE OUT LIKE YOU WANT, BUT YOU WOULD KNOW EXACTLY WHERE IT BROKE DOWN, THOSE SORT OF THINGS.

IT'S FANTASTIC. IT'S THAT IT'S THAT ACCOUNTABILITY PIECE THAT THAT BUILDS THE TRUST.

AND SO WE I HAD A SIDEBAR LAST NIGHT AND WE WERE TALKING ABOUT WHERE ARE YOU COMFORTABLE SAYING I CAN TRUST THAT ALL OF THIS HAS HAPPENED SO I CAN FOCUS ON JUST WHAT'S UP HERE RATHER THAN CONSTANTLY NEEDING TO GO ALL THE WAY TO THE VERY BEGINNING OF TIME TO GET YOUR INFORMATION.

AND SO SOME OF WHAT WE'LL TALK ABOUT IS ARE THERE AREAS WHERE YOU CAN SAY, WE TRUST THE CITY MANAGER TO MAKE THE RIGHT DECISIONS IN THIS AREA? AND SO WE ARE GOING TO GIVE AUTHORITY TO THE CITY MANAGER THERE.

AND THAT'S SOMETHING WE'RE JUST NOT GOING TO DEAL WITH UNLESS THERE'S A PROBLEM LIKE WHERE DO WE FIND THOSE TRUSTS IN STAFF? AND WE HAVE APPARENTLY AN AUDITING SYSTEM THAT PEOPLE FIND TRUSTWORTHY AND THAT IT IS IT'S DOING ALL OF THOSE KIND OF NITPICKY THINGS THAT YOU WOULD WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE MONEY IS EXPENDED CORRECTLY AND AND ALL OF THAT'S HAPPENING.

BUT WHERE DO WE FIND THOSE BASELINES THAT WE CAN ALLEVIATE SOME OF THE STRESSORS THAT PLAGUE US WITH, OH, DID WE DID WE DID WE CROSS THAT T IN THAT CONTRACT? THAT THAT SHOULDN'T BE SOMETHING THAT COUNCIL NEEDS TO WORRY ABOUT.

I HAD A COUPLE ONES.

NUMBER 39 EFFECTIVE FINANCIAL SYSTEMS AND NUMBER 40 EFFECTIVE MANAGEMENT SYSTEM.

AND YOU KNOW, YOU SAID IT PERFECT, BUT I TRUST THAT I MEAN WHATEVER'S GOING ON BEHIND THE SCENES, IF THEY SEE THE IMPERFECTIONS.

BUT WHEN IT'S WHEN IT'S BROUGHT TO US AND I HAVE FULL FAITH AND CONFIDENCE THAT I'M GETTING WHAT I NEED TO GET.

AND PART OF AND PART OF THAT'S DUE TO THE AUDIT PROCESS.

I MEAN, I JUST HAVE A REAL HIGH DEGREE OF TRUST IN THE FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT AND MANAGEMENT OF THE CITY FROM ADMINISTRATIVE PERSPECTIVE.

ULTIMATELY, THAT BUDGET IS THE BIGGEST THING YOU'LL EVER DO.

I MEAN, IT REALLY IS.

IT IS IT IS A MASSIVE CORPORATION.

IT IS A HUGE RESPONSIBILITY TO EXPEND THOSE FUNDS.

BUT WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO IS HAVE CONFIDENCE IN THE SYSTEM THAT IS GOING TO DO AS YOU DICTATED THROUGH YOUR POLICY DECISIONS AND THAT EVERY PENNY WILL BE ACCOUNTED FOR, THAT THERE ARE THE CHECKS AND BALANCES IN PLACE.

BUT BUT I MEAN, THAT IS SUCH A HUGE PART.

AND IF YOU HAVE CONFIDENCE IN THAT, THAT SHOULD ALLEVIATE SO MANY CONSPIRACY THEORIES THAT YOU MAY DEAL WITH JUST DAY TO DAY ON ON SMALL

[02:25:02]

THESE WERE THOSE WERE THE ONLY TWO ONES THAT I CHECKED WAS OUR 39 AND 40 THAT HE MENTIONED.

JUST A HIGH LEVEL OF TRUST THERE.

BUT AND SO GETTING THAT INFORMATION FROM THEM GIVES ME THE COURAGE AND THE KNOW HOW TO GO TO MY PEOPLE, MY NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION PEOPLE, WHOEVER THOSE PEOPLE ARE, TO EXPLAIN THAT, YOU KNOW, WE NEED EXTRA A LITTLE BIT EXTRA BECAUSE THE CITY IS GROWING AND WE NEED TO HIRE MORE PEOPLE TO TAKE CARE OF THOSE THINGS.

AND THIS IS HOW AND TO BE COMFORTABLE IN SAYING THAT THEY'RE GIVING US EVERYTHING THEY CAN.

SO YEAH, THOSE WERE THE TWO THINGS THAT I HAVE THAT THE MANAGEMENT, THE MANAGING OF EVERYTHING AND FINANCE.

IT'S EASY TO IT'S EASY TO BRAG ABOUT THAT IF YOU CAN TRUST THE SYSTEM AND YOU CAN TRUST THAT YOU GET YOUR SUMMARY BUDGET, THE OVERARCHING INFORMATION THAT YOU RECEIVE AND THEY SAY, HERE ARE THE FUND BALANCES.

HERE'S ALL THIS SORT OF STUFF.

YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE TO BE IN THE LINE ITEMS. WE HAD A COUPLE OF MEMBERS WANTED THE LINE ITEMS EVERY TIME.

REALLY. YOU NEED TO KNOW HOW MANY STAPLES WE'RE PURCHASING.

I MEAN, REALLY, THAT THAT THAT IS WHERE COUNCIL LOSES ITS PERSPECTIVE ON THE BIG PICTURE AND THE BIG FOCUS AND GETS SO FAR DOWN IN THE WEEDS.

BUT BUT IF THERE'S A REASON NOT TO TRUST WE WENT THROUGH A FORENSIC AUDIT IN MY CITY.

UM, WHICH PRODUCES ZERO ZERO MALFEASANCE, BUT SPENT $450,000 TO FIGURE THAT OUT.

BUT THERE WAS A THERE WAS A MISTRUST OR A DISTRUST IN THE SYSTEM ITSELF.

SOME OF IT WAS PERSONAL PLAYERS INVOLVED, WHATEVER.

BUT IF YOU BELIEVE AND TRUST AND IT SOUNDS LIKE AROUND THE ROOM AND I WOULD IF ANYBODY HAD LIKE A FIVE OR HAS AREAS FOR CONCERN ABSOLUTELY SHOULD BE DELIBERATED.

BUT IF YOU HAVE THAT LEVEL OF COMPETENCE, STAFF NOW CAN FOCUS ON WHAT IT NEEDS TO DO DOWN HERE AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT IT.

THE ACCOUNTABILITY COMES IN WITH THE AUDIT, WITH THE AUDITOR WHO'S ABOUT TO SPEAK.

BUT THOSE ARE THE ACCOUNTABILITY, THE CHECKS AND BALANCES THAT YOU PUT IN PLACE TO ENSURE THAT THE SYSTEM THAT YOU PUT THAT YOU ADOPTED IS HONORED.

YEAH, GO FOR IT. I JUST WANT TO SAY, I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY, I REALLY APPRECIATE THAT YOU ALL TRUST ME, I GUESS.

BUT I WOULD NOT BE EFFECTIVE AT ALL IF SARA AND I DIDN'T HAVE A GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH CHRISTINE AND CASSIE AND FRANK BECAUSE NOTHING WOULD HAPPEN BASED ON WHAT WE SAID.

SO I JUST WANTED TO POINT THAT OUT AND THROW THAT OUT THERE THAT LIKE WE HAVE TO HAVE A REALLY GOOD RELATIONSHIP.

AND THAT'S THE ONLY REASON THAT WE THAT MY JOB WORKS AT ALL.

SO AND LITTLE KNOWN FACT IS WHEN WE SEE SOMETHING THAT WE THINK IS WRONG, WE TELL HER AND WE ASK HER TO AUDIT IT.

IT'S THE STANDARD. IT'S SOMETHING I'VE DONE EVERY CITY I'VE WORKED IN, EVEN TO THE POINT THAT I HAD TO GO TESTIFY.

AGAINST MISUSE OF FUNDS BECAUSE I WORKED WITH THE CITY AUDITOR TO SAY SOMETHING IS NOT RIGHT HERE.

AND I THINK IT'S ILLEGAL BECAUSE IN MY OWN DEPARTMENT.

BUT THEN WE TOOK THE FOR COUNCIL, DISTRICT ATTORNEY, GOT A HOLD OF IT, FILED SUIT AGAINST THAT PERSON.

BUT I CARE TO ME, THE BIGGEST THING FOR ME IS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE DOING EVERYTHING WE CAN TO BE AS ETHICAL AND HAVE THE INTEGRITY AND MAKING SURE WE'RE SPENDING THE TAX DOLLARS, MONEY THE BEST WAY AND THE MOST FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE.

AND SO MANY OF THE TIMES WE'RE TELLING HER WE THINK THERE'S A PROBLEM.

AND YOU SEE IT IN A IN AN AUDIT FLEET THINGS BUT IT'S IT'S A RELATIONSHIP WE HAVE THAT THAT WE KNOW YOU WE KNOW YOU TRUST HER AND WE KNOW THAT WE'RE GOING TO SIT THERE AND SAY EVERYTHING SHE'S SAYING IS TRUE AND EVERYTHING.

WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GET VERY BUSY TO FIX IT.

BUT IT'S WHEN IT COMES BACK AND WE HAVEN'T FIXED IT, THAT THERE SHOULD BE A PROBLEM.

AND THAT SYSTEM BEING IN PLACE, A COUNCIL PERSON, I MEAN, YOU HEAR THINGS OUT IN THE COMMUNITY ALL THE TIME.

YOU HEAR, OH, I SAW.

HOURS. I SAW THE PARKS CREW MOWING PEOPLE'S PERSONAL YARDS.

RIGHT. THAT'S PROBABLY EVERY CITY GETS THAT OR THE WHATEVER TRUCK IS HANGING OUT AND WHEREVER.

AND SO FOR YOU, THOUGH, THE REACTION SHOULD BE SARA WOULD NEVER ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN.

AND SO I'M GOING TO GO AND TELL MADISON OR SARA THIS IS WHAT IS BEING SAID SO THAT PROCESSES CAN CAN TAKE PLACE RATHER THAN SAYING, I'LL GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THAT.

RIGHT. I MEAN, THAT THAT IMPLIES THAT THERE IS MALFEASANCE OR SOMETHING NEFARIOUS GOING ON AND THAT IS NOT THE INTENTION.

SO FOR YOU, HOLDING UP THE INTEGRITY OF THE PROCESS IS NOT DECIDING THAT SOMETHING WAS WRONG BEFORE YOU KNOW, WHETHER OR NOT IT'S WRONG.

I CAN GIVE YOU PLENTY OF EXAMPLES OF WHERE PEOPLE AND RON USED ONE LAST NIGHT OF WHERE PEOPLE THOUGHT SOMETHING WRONG WAS HAPPENING.

BUT BUT WHERE DID WE GET AWAY FROM ASKING THE QUESTIONS AND THEN AUTOMATICALLY FEEDING INTO THE ASSUMPTIONS? AND SO YOU AS THE CONDUIT, THE GO BETWEEN BETWEEN THE COMMUNITY AND THE ORGANIZATION, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN BE THAT VOICE OF REASON THAT SAYS, OH MY GOSH, PLEASE

[02:30:10]

YOU KNOW, WHERE DO WE GET TO UPHOLDING THE INTEGRITY OF THE SYSTEM, WHICH IT SOUNDS LIKE UNLESS THERE ARE DIFFERING OPINIONS, PLEASE VOICE THEM.

IT SOUNDS LIKE WE TRUST OUR CITY MANAGER.

IT SOUNDS LIKE WE TRUST OUR FINANCIAL SYSTEMS. IT SOUNDS LIKE WE TRUST THE AUDITING PROCESSES.

AND IF THAT'S NOT THE CASE, THOSE ARE THINGS THAT SHOULD BE DISCUSSED AND VETTED AS A BODY SO THAT YOU CAN ENSURE THAT THE RIGHT SAFEGUARDS ARE IN PLACE TO MAKE THAT AS AS STRONG AND AS CLEAR THE EXPECTATIONS AS YOU CAN.

ANY OTHER ONES OR ANY MORE DISCUSSION ON ANY OF THAT, GO FOR IT.

YEAH, I JUST I THINK IT'S NOT A NUMBER ONE, BUT I'LL JUST SUPPORT THE WELL PREPARED AGENDAS AND PACKETS OF JUST CONSISTENTLY IMPRESSED BY HOW THOROUGH AND PROFESSIONAL.

WHAT NUMBER WAS THAT? THAT'S NUMBER TWO.

TWO? YEAH. YEAH, YEAH.

AND DO WE AS A BODY APPRECIATE THE AMOUNT OF TIME AND EFFORT THAT GOES INTO THAT EVERY SINGLE CYCLE? PROBABLY NOT. PROBABLY NOT.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT WE DO? I MEAN, BECAUSE IN MY HEAD, I'M NOT.

I'LL BE BRAGGING ON THE PEOPLE, NOT ME.

I DON'T. I DON'T DO IT. I GET TO SEE THE PRODUCT.

BUT WHEN IT COMES IN, MONICA OR JENNIFER GET IT, AND THEN WE ALL READ IT TO SEE WHO ALL ARE THE RIGHT DEPARTMENTS TO BE INVOLVED.

SO MANY OF THEM ARE MULTIPLE QUESTIONS.

SO IT GOES OUT TO THOSE DEPARTMENTS.

WE GIVE THEM A DEADLINE AND MANY TIMES IT ALSO WILL GO TO THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE BECAUSE THERE'S SOME KIND OF A LEGAL PART OF IT IS TO LET THEM LOOK AT IT.

ONCE THEY PULLED THE INFORMATION.

AND MANY TIMES THE DEPARTMENT HEAD HAS A PERSON THAT LOOKS AT IT AND THEN THEY GO IT GOES OUT TO SEVERAL OF THE FRONT LINE STAFF OR PERHAPS IN THE ROADS.

ADMINISTRATIVE STAFF ARE DEALING WITH THE COMPLAINT FROM THE CITIZEN, AND THEN IT'S SENT BACK TO MONICA AND OR JENNIFER.

AND THEN WE PUT ALL THAT INFORMATION TOGETHER AND CASSIE, CHRISTINE, FRANK, MYSELF, RYAN, REVIEW IT, MAKE SURE IT'S COMPLETE, COMPREHENSIVE, AND THEN IT GOES BACK OUT IN THE FORM OF THE FRAUD REPORT OR IF IT'S SOMETHING FAIRLY NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED IMMEDIATELY, IT GOES BACK OUT.

BUT IT TAKES I DON'T KNOW.

EACH QUESTION PROBABLY TAKES WHAT DID WE SAY AN HOUR, HOUR AND A HALF JUST TO GET THE ANSWER OVER THE TIME OF.

BUT ALL WHILE YOU'RE PREPARING AGENDAS, YOU'RE PREPARING A BUDGET, YOU'RE MANAGING PROCESSES AND STAFF AND ALL OF THESE THINGS. AND SO I CAN ASSUME THAT BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT THERE EVERY DAY, SOMETIMES COUNCIL DOESN'T RECOGNIZE HOW BUSY STAFF IS AND THAT THEY BECAUSE LIKE AS RON WAS SAYING LAST NIGHT, Y'ALL ARE SOMEWHAT DIVINITIES AND STAFF BY NATURE WANTS TO PLEASE THE COUNCIL.

THEY DROP EVERYTHING TO TRY TO GET YOU THAT ANSWER AND SO IT BECOMES THIS MASSIVE TIME SUCK AWAY FROM THEM ACTUALLY DOING ALL THE PROCESSES THAT ARE NECESSARY.

SO AGAIN, AS AS COUNCIL MEMBERS REALLY UNDERSTANDING WHERE SOME OF THE INFORMATION IS AVAILABLE AND CAN BE FOUND RATHER THAN JUST FIRING OFF THE QUESTION, BUT THEN GOING, YOU KNOW WHAT, THAT JUST DOESN'T SOUND RIGHT.

SO I'M NOT GOING TO BURDEN STAFF WITH IT.

I'M GOING TO SHUT IT DOWN RIGHT NOW.

WHAT ARE THOSE THINGS THAT YOU CAN RECOGNIZE THAT WILL HELP THEM BE AS EFFECTIVE AS THEY ARE BECAUSE THERE'S ONLY SO MANY HOURS IN THE DAY.

AND THAT'S NOT TO SAY THAT THEY'RE NOT HERE TO HELP AND THEY'RE NOT HERE TO SERVE, AND THEY'RE NOT HERE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS AND GET YOU WHAT YOU NEED.

BUT BUT YOU'VE GOT TO RECOGNIZE THE BALANCE BETWEEN THE JOB THAT THEY HAVE TO DO AND AND AND THEN THE INTERRUPTIONS THAT COME BECAUSE IT'S NOT JUST COUNCIL MEMBERS THAT ARE INTERRUPTING. IT'S PUBLIC.

THE PUBLIC IS CONSTANTLY HAS THIS ISSUE OR THAT ISSUE OR WHATEVER.

AND SO, AGAIN, THERE'S ONLY SO MANY HOURS IN THE DAY.

SO WHEN SARA COMES BACK AND SAYS, I NEED ANOTHER PERSON FOR THIS, SHE'S PROBABLY RUN THE NUMBERS OF HOW MANY HOURS WERE REQUIRED AND SHE'S GOING TO BRING YOUR REAL PROPOSAL.

BUT THAT'S JUST ANOTHER PART OF OF THE PROCESS.

BUT AGAIN, IF YOU TRUST SARA AND YOU TRUST THAT SHE'S RUNNING A GOOD ORGANIZATION AND YOU TRUST THAT THE THE DEPARTMENTS ARE OPERATING IN THE WAY THAT YOU WOULD WANT THEM TO UNDER THE THE STANDARDS AND THE VISION THAT YOU'VE SET FOR THEM.

HOW MUCH OF THAT CAN YOU FILTER AS THE AS THE IN-BETWEEN PERSON BETWEEN THE PUBLIC AND THE STAFF IN ORDER TO ALLOW THEM TO FOCUS ON THE THE REAL WORK AT HAND? WELL, THE OTHER THING, TOO, IS I THINK I GET A LOT OF EMAILS FROM THE CITIZENS, WHICH I REALLY LIKE, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, BECAUSE THEY FEEL COMFORTABLE EMAILING ME.

AND I WAS JUST TELLING COUNCILMEMBER WHAT'S A COUPLE OF WOMEN EMAILED ME THE OTHER NIGHT.

I DON'T KNOW, IT'S PROBABLY 8 OR 9:00 AT NIGHT.

[02:35:01]

IT WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED THAT NIGHT, BUT WE WERE ABLE TO ADDRESS THE NEXT DAY AND THAT IS WHAT WE DO.

THAT'S OUR JOB. AND YOU KNOW, THE EMAIL I GET BACK IS, MAN, I HAD NO IDEA THAT YOU WERE GOING TO ADDRESS THIS SO QUICKLY, BUT TO ME, THAT WAS AN ISSUE TO THEM AND IT NEEDED TO BE ADDRESSED.

AND I TAKE A LOT OF PRIDE IN THAT BECAUSE TO THEM IT'S A BIG DEAL.

WELL, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, ONE OF THEM WAS THERE WAS A LEAK AND IT WAS ON THE CITY SIDE.

AND THEY'RE I'M ASSUMING THEIR WATER BILL WAS BEING IMPACTED.

AND OUR CREWS WENT OUT THE NEXT MORNING AND FOUND IT AND TOOK CARE OF IT.

BUT THOSE ARE THINGS, TOO, THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH.

AND I'M SHOOTING THOSE OUT PROBABLY EVERY NIGHT, TOO, GOING OUT TO FRANK AND OTHERS.

SO THE GOOD NEWS IS THEY FEEL COMFORTABLE EMAILING.

AND SAYING, SARA, WE GOT A PROBLEM.

I DON'T KNOW WHO THEY ARE, BUT I MAY.

I MAY HAVE MET THEM SOMEWHERE.

BUT YOU TRY TO TREAT THEM ALL THE SAME, WHICH IS THEY'RE ALL A PRIORITY.

ALL RIGHT. ANYTHING ELSE BEFORE WE HIT THE REAL ISSUES AND THEN TAKE A LUNCH BREAK? I DO. I DO WANT TO GIVE THE CITY MANAGER AN OPPORTUNITY BECAUSE I'M JUST CURIOUS.

WE'VE HAD A LOT OF PROMOTIONS FROM WITHIN.

SO ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER HAS GONE ON TO BE CITY MANAGERS AT A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT RATE.

AND SO JUST NOT NOT GIVING NAMES, BUT JUST GIVING PEER CONVERSATIONS.

YOU'RE ACTIVE AND THE CITY MANAGER ORGANIZATIONS, WE HAVE A OUTSTANDING SCHOOL HERE AT AND YOU'RE TALKING TO THEM AND YOU GO SPEAK TO THEM.

WHAT ARE YOU HEARING FROM OTHER CITY MANAGERS UNDERSTANDING THE REPUTATION WE HAVE? OH, I'M JUST CLEARING MY THROAT.

SO I GO AND HAVE DRINKS, JUST TO BE HONEST WITH YOU.

CLAIRE FROM LEWISVILLE.

AARON FROM CARROLLTON.

DAVID FROM ADDISON, WHO USED TO BE OUR DEPUTY CITY MANAGER, AND MARIO FROM PROSPER.

THEY'VE ALL MOVED ON TO OTHER JOBS.

MARIO'S NOW RECENTLY BEEN PLACED AT PROSPER.

AND INEVITABLY, THE COMMENT ALWAYS COMES TO ME IS THAT I WOULD TAKE YOUR JOB FOR $1 MILLION.

I'M JUST BEING HONEST.

AND THEN DAVID DID SHARE WITH ME AND I'LL SHARE IT WITH YOU.

HE SAID, SARA, YOU DON'T REALIZE WHAT IT'S LIKE TO WORK WITH A COUNCIL WHO RESPECTS YOU AND TRUST YOU.

AND IT ALLOWS YOU TO DO YOUR JOB UNTIL YOU GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.

NOW, IT KIND OF HURT MY FEELINGS A LITTLE BIT.

I KIND OF WAS LIKE, WHOA, MAN.

BECAUSE I TELL PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, I LOVE WORKING HERE AND I LOVE THE PEOPLE I WORK WITH AND I LOVE WORKING WITH THE CITY COUNCIL.

I WOULDN'T BE DOING IT IF I DIDN'T.

AND THERE ARE THERE'S THERE'S THERE'S THIS IS NOT AN EASY JOB FOR WHEREVER YOU GO.

YOU COULD GO TO ANY CITY IN THE COUNTRY AND IT'S GOING THERE'S GOING TO BE ISSUES.

SO I DON'T I DON'T BELIEVE THAT I COULD LEAVE HERE TODAY AND GO, OH, EVERYTHING'S JUST GOING TO BE OVER THE RAINBOW.

BUT WHEN YOU HAVE SOMEONE SAY THAT TO YOU, THAT JUST LEFT AT SIX MONTHS, IT DID TAKE ME ABACK.

SO YEAH, BUT THE OTHER THING IS THEY DON'T HAVE AS COMPLICATED OF A CITY.

THEY DON'T HAVE A UTILITY LIKE WE DO.

AND. I THINK WE FROM THE OTHER SIDE OF IT, I THINK WE WORK EXTREMELY HARD, AS YOU ALL HAVE HEARD ME SAY OVER AND OVER AGAIN, TO BE THE EMPLOYEE OF CHOICE AND TO TRY TO MAKE SURE THAT WE TREAT OUR EMPLOYEES FAIRLY AND RESPECT ALL OF OUR EMPLOYEES.

SO NOT THAT THEY DON'T, BUT SOME OF THEM ARE SMALLER, A LOT SMALLER.

SO IT JUST IT I WILL SAY IT, IT DID IMPACT.

I DON'T KNOW HOW IT MADE ME IMPACT OTHER THAN I TOOK OFFENSE TO IT A LITTLE BIT.

BUT I ALSO THEN SAID, WELL, I'VE WORKED IN A LOT OF CITIES.

I'VE WORKED IN AUSTIN AND PHENIX AND SAN JOSE AND VIRGINIA BEACH, AND THEY ALL HAD THEIR LITTLE ISSUES.

AND AT THE TIME I WASN'T THE CITY MANAGER, SO I CAN'T SPEAK FOR THAT.

BUT. THAT'S KIND OF THEIR VIEWPOINT.

AND EVERY TIME I GO HAVE A DRINK WITH THEM, INEVITABLY THEY MAKE SOME COMMENT.

UM, BUT THEN I WILL SAY BOTH CLAIRE AND AARON HAVE STARTED TO SAY.

THAT THEY HAVE A COUNCIL MEMBER THAT THEY'RE HAVING A HARD TIME WITH.

SO I THINK IT'S A CYCLICAL THING FOR CITIES AND SOMETIMES IT'S GREAT AND SOMETIMES IT'S NOT SO GREAT.

I'M GOING TO I'M THINKING POSITIVE THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE WE'RE GOING TO BE GREAT AND IT'S GOING TO BE THAT IT IS THE CITY THAT PEOPLE WANT TO WORK IN BECAUSE WE HAVE SOME GREAT EMPLOYEES LIKE AMY WHO LOVES IT HERE.

SHE'S GLAD TO BE HERE. SHE CAME FROM IRVING.

SAY WHAT? SO SHE. SO SHE SAYS.

BUT THAT'S.

YES. THANK YOU, MAYOR. THAT'S THAT'S THAT IS THE TRUTH.

OKAY. SO, YEAH, SO THAT'S THAT'S HARD TO HEAR.

BUT BUT IT ANSWERS MY QUESTION.

AND I THINK FROM YOU AS WE GO THROUGH THE DISCUSSION, I'M SURE YOU'RE GOING TO TOUCH ON IT.

IT'S WHAT I HEARD YOU SAY IS THE TRUST IN THE PROCESS AND THEN THE PEOPLE BRINGING THAT.

[02:40:06]

THAT BEGINS TO BE THE PROBLEM.

AND THAT'S YOU TRUST THAT.

BUT IT ALSO SAYS LOYALTY TO COMMUNITY, THE CONFUSION OVER LOYALTY, LOYALTY TO COMMUNITY OR ORGANIZATION.

SO YOU TOUCHED ON KIND OF THAT BEING IN BETWEEN THOSE TWO AND KIND OF PASSING THAT ALONG.

BUT HOPE WE GET INTO THE DETAILS OF HOW TO EXECUTE ON THAT, HOW WE AGREE TO DO THAT.

AND THEN THEN THAT ALSO INFORMS THAT DECISION.

BUT ANYWAY, THAT'S THAT'S KIND OF WHAT I'LL BE MADE A NOTE TO LISTEN FOR THAT BECAUSE THAT IS THE GIST OF IT.

IT'S, HEY, THIS GROUP, THIS USING HIS EXAMPLE, THE DAIRY CREAM CREW WANTED THIS.

I TRUST STAFF TO DO THIS.

WHAT ACTIONS ARE YIELDED FROM THOSE TWO, YOU KNOW, POSITIONS? ABSOLUTELY. YES.

SO WE WERE SCHEDULED FOR A BREAK, BUT DO YOU WANT TO JUST DIVE IN? RIGHT. I CAN GET THEIR LUNCH AND COME BACK AND WE CAN EAT AND DO IT.

IF YOU WANT TO DO THAT, DO THAT.

YEAH. DO YOU WANT TO DO THAT? OKAY.

YEAH. OKAY. SO.

SO WE'LL TAKE A BREAK AT 1114 AND WE'LL JUST FOR THE HONORS AND STUFF.

SHE'S GOING TO TELL YOU HOW TO. AND I'LL TELL YOU THAT, NUMBER ONE, ALL A BUNCH ON THE ROAD. WE READY? SO AT 12:00, WE'RE BACK ON THE RECORD AND OVER TO YOU.

ALL RIGHT. WE RECORDED.

WE'RE GOOD. WE'RE GOOD.

OKAY. OKAY.

SO IN MY PRE INTERVIEWS WITH EACH OF YOU, I ASKED YOU A SERIES OF QUESTIONS AND I ASKED ALL OF YOU THE SAME QUESTIONS AND KIND OF LEFT THEM OPEN ENDED SO THAT EVERYONE COULD GIVE ME GENERAL PERSPECTIVES THAT I COULD THEN CONSOLIDATE INTO.

WHAT YOU'RE ABOUT TO SEE. HERE IS OUR STARTING OFF POINT FOR SOME POTENTIAL POLICIES OR POLICY IMPROVEMENTS.

SO THE POSITIVE THAT I HEARD FROM EVERYONE IS THE REASON THAT PEOPLE RAN AND THE REASON PEOPLE ARE SERVING IS BECAUSE THEY WANT THEIR COMMUNITY TO BE BETTER.

THEY WANT IT TO BE THE BEST THAT IT CAN BE.

UNIVERSALLY, EVERYONE SAID THE SAME THING.

GOOD STARTING OFF POINT, WE'VE GOT COMMONALITY.

EVERYONE SAID THAT THEY RESPECT RESPECTED STAFF AND BELIEVE THAT THEY'RE COMPETENT AND HARD WORKING.

THERE WERE VARIATIONS WITHIN THAT OF, YOU KNOW, WELL, SOMETIMES THEY LEAN THIS WAY OR SOMETIMES THEY DO THAT.

BUT IN GENERAL AND THAT'S WHAT'S BEEN SAID IN THIS GROUP AGAIN TODAY IS THERE IS A GENERAL RESPECT FOR STAFF AND THEIR PROFESSIONALISM.

AND THEN EVERYONE SAID IN SOME WAY, SHAPE OR FORM THAT THEY FELT THAT THE INFORMATION THEY WERE PROVIDED BY STAFF HELPED THEM BE EFFECTIVE IN THEIR DECISION MAKING.

SO WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT AGENDA PACKETS OR THE FRIDAY REPORTS AND THOSE SORTS OF THINGS, RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS AND INQUIRIES.

THEY BELIEVE THAT THEY WERE GETTING THE FULL STORY MOST OF THE TIME, WITH A FEW EXCEPTIONS THAT WAS GOING TO AID THEM IN DECISION MAKING.

NOW, FOR THE NEGATIVE THAT I HEARD FROM EVERYONE, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU, WITHOUT EXCEPTION, SAID THERE WAS FRICTION ON THE COUNCIL, NO QUESTION.

AND EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU FELT THAT THE STAFF AND THE PUBLIC SAW THAT FRICTION IN SOME WAY, SHAPE OR FORM.

WE TALKED ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT EARLIER ABOUT WHAT IS BEING SAID TO SARA FROM SOME OF HER COLLEAGUES OR RECRUITING PERSONNEL AND THOSE KINDS OF THINGS.

THESE HAVE IT HAS RAMIFICATIONS WHEN IT FEELS LIKE THERE'S FRICTION ON A COUNCIL THAT'S NOT AN ENVIRONMENT THAT IS IS, YOU KNOW, GOING TO LURE PEOPLE IN FOR GOOD REASONS.

IT DOES LURE IN PEOPLE WHO HAVE SPECIAL INTERESTS BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEY CAN WORK THOSE THOSE FACTIONS OR THOSE THOSE CRACKS.

EVERYONE SAID THAT THEY FEEL THERE'S A LACK OF TRUST AND OR RESPECT FOR ONE ANOTHER ON THE BODY TO VARYING DEGREES.

AND THEY ALL EVERY ONE OF YOU SAID SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT OF THAT PERSONALITY CONFLICTS ARE INTERFERING WITH DELIBERATIONS.

PERSONALITIES ARE BEING INSERTED IN SOME WAY, SHAPE OR FORM.

EVERYONE SAID THEY FEEL SOME PARTIZANSHIP.

SOME PEOPLE WERE REALLY EXPLICIT ABOUT IT BEING LIBERAL VERSUS CONSERVATIVE.

SOME SAID IT WAS PRO-DEVELOPMENT VERSUS SLOW DEVELOPMENT.

BUT EVERY ONE OF YOU SAID THERE WAS SOME KIND OF US VERSUS THEM THING HAPPENING.

AND THERE'S YOUR WORD, MAYOR GAMESMANSHIP.

SO PEOPLE FELT THAT THERE WAS GAMESMANSHIP, WHICH COULD BE EITHER SOMETHING LIKE FAVORITISM, MEANING THAT PEOPLE GET RECOGNIZED DIFFERENTLY THAN THAN OTHERS OR SUBVERSION.

MEANING LIKE I SAID EARLIER, WE'VE GOT THE VOTES.

SO LET'S NOT NOT NECESSARILY GO THROUGH THE PROCESS.

SO GAMESMANSHIP I WOULD OFFER AS ONE OF THE DEFINITIONS FOR POLITICS.

[02:45:04]

IT'S JUST THE NATURE OF THE BEAST.

BUT REALLY, WHAT IT BOILS DOWN TO, IN MY ESTIMATION AND PLEASE JOIN IN, IS, IS THIS GAMESMANSHIP, IS IT WORKING THE SYSTEM TO OUR OWN PERSONAL ADVANTAGE VERSUS UPHOLDING THE SYSTEM SO THAT EVERYONE HAS AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY? THOUGHTS ON ANY OF THESE POSITIVE NEGATIVE PERSPECTIVES OR IF THEY FELT MISCHARACTERIZED? I'M CURIOUS ABOUT UNDER NEGATIVE.

THE SECOND ONE, EVERYONE FEELS THERE'S A LACK OF TRUST AND OR RESPECT AMONG MEMBERS.

SO YOU, JOE, SO EVERYONE HAS A LACK OF TRUST AND EVERYBODY HAS RESPECT.

IS THAT. NO, NO, NO, NO.

IT'S IT'S EITHER A LACK OF TRUST OR A LACK OF RESPECT.

SO. SO THERE'S TWO THINGS, BUT IT'S BOTH NEGATIVE, LIKE A LACK OF.

AND SO IT WASN'T NECESSARILY.

I SEE. YOU SEE WHAT I'M SAYING? OKAY, I SEE. I BEG YOUR PARDON.

AND TO VARYING DEGREES, SOME PEOPLE WERE VERY OUTRIGHT AND SAID, THIS PERSON HATES THIS PERSON'S GUTS.

I MEAN, IT WASN'T THAT EXPLICIT, BUT AND THEN SOME PEOPLE SAID, YEAH, I CAN FEEL WHERE THEY'RE TRYING TO COURT ME TO THEIR SIDE AND ISSUES AND AND SO THEIR MOTIVES WEREN'T NECESSARILY TRUSTWORTHY.

WHERE DO I FALL IN THE GRAND SCHEME OF THIS GAME THAT'S BEING PLAYED? OR THEY'RE FEELING THAT THERE WAS A GAME BEING PLAYED? UM. COMMENTS.

DISAGREEMENTS. THIS IS.

YES. TO SOME DEGREE.

I DON'T MIND THE GAMESMANSHIP WITH RESPECT TO WHAT VICKI SAID EARLIER.

IT IS IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR HIM TO RUN A MEETING AND BE COMPLETELY NONPARTISAN.

HE HAS FEELINGS. HE HAS THOUGHTS.

HE'S HUMAN. WHAT I SEE IS THAT I SEE SOMETIMES THE MAYOR ALLOWS CHRIS TO HAVE MORE LEEWAY IN LENGTH OF TIME TALKING, AND THAT'S OKAY.

THAT'S NOT A CRITICISM BECAUSE HE SERVED WITH CHRIS.

I'M SURE HE HAS AFFINITY TO CHRIS.

I GET IT. BUT THE THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT IS IT LOOKS LIKE HE MIGHT CUT BRIAN OFF QUICKLY.

BUT. IT IS BECAUSE OF THE RELATIONSHIPS AND TO SOME DEGREE WE AS COUNCIL MEMBERS, WE JUST GOT TO DEAL WITH THAT.

WE KNOW THAT THIS IS THE LANDSCAPE.

IF IT WERE SOMEBODY ELSE SITTING IN THAT SEAT.

IF PAUL HAD WON LAST YEAR, PAUL MIGHT LET ME GO ON LONGER AND PAUL MIGHT CUT JOE OFF.

I MEAN, THINGS LIKE THAT HAPPEN WHEN YOU'RE HUMAN AND YOU'RE ASKED TO DO A DIFFICULT JOB.

TO SOME DEGREE, THE GAMESMANSHIP DOES NOT NECESSARILY BOTHER ME AS MUCH AS IT MIGHT BOTHER OTHER PEOPLE, IF THAT MAKES SENSE.

STATISTICAL FACT BRIAN TALKS THE MOST OUT OF EVERYONE.

HE SUCKS ALL THE AIR OUT OF THE ROOM.

HE'S THE LUBRICANT GUY.

ANYTHING? DATA. HE HAS AN AFFINITY, KNOWS NUMBERS.

KNOWS EVERYTHING IN THE ROOM AND USES ALL THE TIME.

IT'S A FACT. WATCH THE MEETINGS.

SO THAT STATEMENT IS INCORRECT AND THAT CHRIS GETS MORE TIME.

THAT'S MY PROBLEM IS THEY'RE NOT OBJECTIVELY LOOKING AT THE ROOM.

IT IS NOT EVEN CLOSE BY A FACTOR OF DOUBLE DIGITS.

BRIAN TALKS THE MOST ON EVERYTHING AT EVERY TURN.

AND SO TO TO TO TO SUGGEST THAT HE GETS CUT OFF IS MEANING YOU'RE NOT WATCHING THE MEETINGS.

YOU'RE HE'S IN THE MEETINGS AND NOT PAYING ATTENTION.

FAIR ENOUGH. I TAKE HIS POINT.

I HAVE NOT ACTUALLY DONE THE MATH LIKE HE HAS.

IT FEELS THE PERCEPTION.

MY OPINION IS THIS WAY.

SO IF IT'S WRONG, I APOLOGIZE.

BUT OTHER PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY HAVE ALSO THOUGHT THE SAME THING.

SO AGAIN, YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF ROOM TO BE HUMAN AND HAVE OUR OWN OPINION.

THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING. AND I'M ALSO IT'S NOT A CRITICISM.

I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT BECAUSE YOU ALL HAVE A RELATIONSHIP AND YOU ALL DON'T HAVE MUCH RELATIONSHIP.

ANYBODY NATURALLY WOULD DO THAT.

I GET IT. THAT'S NOT A CRITICISM.

YOU KNOW, THE TOWN CRAZY PERSON THAT COMES TO EVERY MEETING, THAT'S MY DAD.

AND I'M AND I'M MORE THAN HAPPY TO TO CUT HIM OFF.

RIGHT. LIKE, I DON'T I DON'T I DON'T I DON'T FUNCTION IN THOSE WORLDS.

RIGHT. I'M A VERY LINEAR WORLD, AND THAT'S NOT HEALTHY EITHER.

BUT THAT'S THE WAY I LIVE.

RIGHT. IT'S IT'S BLACK AND WHITE AND AND, YOU KNOW, MY OTHER POLITICALLY CORRECT STATEMENT, SINCE WE'RE ON THE RECORD IS I DON'T SEE COLOR.

I DON'T EVEN PLAY CHECKERS.

GO AHEAD. WELL, BUT HERE'S IT'S IMPORTANT TO HEAR THAT THERE IS THAT PERCEPTION.

AND SO THAT TELLS ME THAT THERE IS REAL OR NOT, THERE IS A PERCEPTION.

THE SAME THING HAPPENS IN THE COMMUNITY WHERE SOMEONE COMES AND SAYS, EVERYONE SAYS BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, AND YOU ALL ARE DOING THIS THING WRONG.

[02:50:02]

BUT WHAT YOU ALSO HAVE TO DO IS YOU HAVE TO PLAY WITH FACTS.

AND SO HE'S JUST PRESENTED YOU WITH A FACT HE HAS AGREED THAT THAT IS PROBABLY AN ACCURATE FACT.

AND THIS IS YOUR DATA GUY.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, THE THE ASSUMPTION I'M GOING TO TAKE A SMALL CHRIS AND I ARE KNOWN FOR SAYING FACTS AND DATA.

SO TO BE FAIR TO CHRIS, THE TWO OF US AND IT WAS JESSE BEFOREHAND, THE THREE OF US, THAT'S OUR THAT'S OUR WHEELHOUSE.

SO BUT HERE'S HERE'S THE THING THAT WE WANT TO REGARDLESS OF THIS MUCH TIME, THAT MUCH TIME, THIS, THAT OR THE OTHER, THE ASSUMPTION IS THAT THERE IS FAVORITISM GOING ON.

THAT'S THE UNDERLYING CURRENT IN THIS IS WHAT I'M HEARING AS THE OBJECTIVE THIRD PARTY HERE.

AND SO WHAT CAN WE DO TO SAY THAT WE WANT TO PROTECT THE PROCESS FROM THE INFLUENCE OF FAVORITISM? AND SO IF THAT MEANS THAT THERE IS A MORE RIGOROUS STRUCTURE ABOUT THE WAY THE MAYOR IS TO INTERACT WITH EACH MEMBER OR AT THE DYESS OR WHATEVER THOSE THINGS ARE, WHAT CAN WE DO THAT GIVES THOSE PEOPLE WHO FEEL THAT THEY ARE NOT THE BENEFIT OF THE FAVORITISM, THE THE AUTHORITY AND THE ASSURANCE THAT THERE IS NOT FAVORITISM.

AND IF THERE IS FAVORITISM, THAT YOU CAN POINT TO SOMETHING SPECIFIC AND SAY, MAYOR, YOU ARE YOU ARE VIOLATING THIS THIS POLICY BASED ON WHAT WE ALL AS A GROUP HAVE AGREED TO. SO THERE'S A BALANCE AND YOU AS A GROUP HAVE TO DETERMINE WHAT THE BALANCE IS THAT MAKES THE MOST SENSE FOR DENTON.

SO WE'LL DRIVE A LITTLE DEEPER INTO SOME OF THAT.

SOME OF THE SUGGESTIONS I HAVE ON ON THE FUTURE SLIDES.

BUT TO BE CLEAR, I WAS NOT AGAIN, I WAS NOT ARGUING FOR ANY TYPE OF CHANGE BECAUSE THAT WOULD TAKE AWAY THE WHOEVER THE OCCUPANT OF THAT SEAT IS TO BE ABLE TO DO WHAT THEY WANT TO SOME DEGREE AND RUN THE MEETING.

RIGHT. THAT'S I'M NOT SAYING THAT WE NEED TO CHANGE THAT.

IF HE GETS TO DO THAT.

RIGHT, HE'S MARRIED, GETS TO DO THAT.

JUST ONE FUN FACT.

AT LEAST SINCE I'VE BEEN ON COUNCIL, I DON'T KNOW IF I'VE REALLY EVER SEEN THE MAYOR REACH FOR THE MUTE BUTTON AS I DID ONE TIME WHEN I WAS TALKING.

SO I DON'T KNOW IF THE MAYOR SHOWS ME FAVORITISM OR NOT.

WE HAVE COMMUNITY.

I'M I THINK I FINISHED TALKING.

I THINK I FINISHED TALKING, SO I THOUGHT I WAS.

OH, MAN. HE GOES, DID YOU JUST MISS ME? SO, YEAH. SO, I MEAN, IT'S JUST A FUN FACT.

THE LAST, THE LAST THING, THE LAST THING THE MAYOR NEEDS IS FOR ME TO DEFEND HIM.

BUT HE MAY HAVE FAVORITISM, BUT I HAVEN'T SEEN IT MANIFEST ITSELF AS FAR AS NUMBER OF MINUTES THAT MEMBERS ARE GIVEN TO TALK. HE SAID HE CERTAINLY MAY HAVE FAVORITISM, BUT I HAVEN'T SEEN IT.

AND IT'S OKAY TO HAVE A FAVORITE.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE MY FAVORITE.

YOU'RE MY FAVORITE. AND I DON'T LET IT SHOW EVERY.

I'LL GO BY. SEE THERE.

THAT'S RIGHT. WE'RE ALL TAKING OUR BIKES TO HIS SHOP.

ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANYTHING ON THIS LIST? OKAY, STAFF, Y'ALL.

YEAH. NO, NO. AND I GUESS IT'S MORE OF JUST TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT.

WHERE IT SAYS EVERYONE FEELS PARTIZANSHIP.

EXPLAIN A LITTLE BIT MORE WHAT YOUR IMPRESSION OF THAT WAS.

SO I'VE GOT MY OWN THOUGHTS ABOUT THAT WORD.

IT MANIFESTED IN TWO DIFFERENT WAYS.

ONE WAS CONSERVATIVE VERSUS LIBERAL.

THOSE WORDS SPECIFICALLY USED.

AND SO THERE WAS A PARTIZAN LINE THERE.

AND THEN SOME PEOPLE SAID IT WAS PRO DEVELOPMENT VERSUS SLOW DEVELOPMENT.

SO SO BEING KIND OF YOU SEE WHAT I'M SAYING? THERE'S A LINE AND PEOPLE ARE ON EITHER SIDE.

I ALSO HEARD 4 TO 3 AND 3 TO 4 A LOT.

AND SO SOME OF THAT IS WE'VE GOT OUR FACTIONS AND THAT'S KIND OF A PARTIZAN THING THAT I THINK I HAVE MY FOR MY THREE OR WHATEVER.

I THINK THAT'S GOOD.

I THINK FOUR, THREE VOTES ARE SUPPOSED TO BE GOOD BECAUSE TO YOUR POINT EARLIER, IF WE'RE REALLY VETTING STUFF, REASONABLE PEOPLE CAN DISAGREE.

DO WE REALLY WANT A CITY COUNCIL THAT'S GOING TO BE SEVEN ZERO AND EVERYTHING? YEAH, I ACTUALLY LIKE THE FOUR THREE VOTES.

THE THREE FOUR VOTES.

I THINK, THOUGH, THAT THE DISTINCTION THERE WAS THAT THE FOUR THREE VOTE IS BEING USED TO SHUT DOWN DISCUSSION, MEANING I'M JUST GOING TO BRING IT AND SHOVE IT THROUGH AND NOT GO THROUGH THE PROCESS OF DISCUSSION.

SO USING IT MORE AS A WEAPON THAN THAN JUST KIND OF THIS IS OUR OPINION AND WE'RE GOING TO GO THROUGH THE PROCESS LEGITIMATELY.

IT WAS MORE OF A, WELL, I CAN JUST SHUT IT DOWN.

WELL, AND I THINK TOWARDS THAT TO SORT OF EXPAND THAT A LITTLE.

I MEAN, I DON'T DISAGREE WITH YOU AS FAR AS, YOU KNOW, DISCOURSE IS GOOD BECAUSE IT FLUSHES OUT AND GIVES YOU THE MOST INFORMATION TO CREATE THE BEST DECISION.

I THINK PART OF WHAT THIS IS SAYING, TOO, IS THAT THERE'S PEOPLE THAT MAY THINK THAT SOME PEOPLE VOTE TOGETHER AS A BLOCK AND SOME PEOPLE VOTE TOGETHER AS A BLOCK.

[02:55:08]

IS THAT WHAT I'M HEARING? US VERSUS THEM? IT WAS LIKE THIS MENTALITY.

THAT'S WHERE IT EXISTED. AND AND I ALSO HAD SOME PEOPLE SAY, WELL, I'M A SWING VOTE AND I KNOW I'M A SWING VOTE.

SO THAT'S AN INTERESTING THING, TOO, BECAUSE THE PEOPLE WHO SAID WE'RE A SURE THREE OR WE'RE A SURE FOUR AND THERE'S A SWING IN THERE.

WELL, HOW DO HOW DOES THE MATH COMPUTE? RIGHT. AND SO, AGAIN, HONORING THE PROCESS AND ALLOWING THOSE THREES AND FOURS TO HAPPEN.

BUT THROUGH THIS VIBRANT DISCOURSE AND THE APPROPRIATE PROCESSING OF AN ISSUE IS THE RIGHT IS THE RIGHT COURSE OF ACTION. YEAH, PLEASE. VICKI ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I WOULD LIKE FOR US TO DO COLLECTIVELY IS SPEAK TO THE ISSUE RATHER THAN TO SPEAK TO EACH OTHER, WHICH CAUSES A BIT OF FRICTION.

AND I'VE SEEN THAT ON THE COUNCIL WHERE THEY'RE GOING AT EACH OTHER RATHER THAN RAISING YOUR HAND OR PUSHING THE BUTTON OR WHATEVER, AND SPEAKING TO THAT ISSUE AND THEN BEING ABLE TO VOTE ON THE ISSUE.

AND I THINK WHEN YOU'RE GOING BACK AND FORTH WITH EACH OTHER LIKE THAT, THAT'S WHERE THAT MINDSET OF THE PARTIZAN THING IS COMING IN.

SO, YOU KNOW, IF WE CAN AGREE TO DO THAT TRANSPARENTLY, WE HAD A MEETING.

I MEAN, WE WERE IN OUR WORKSHOP MEETING AND CHRIS WAS VERY PASSIONATE ABOUT SOMETHING.

AND I DON'T SPEAK WHEN I FEEL LIKE THERE'S NOTHING TO SAY.

I'M JUST NOT GOING TO JUST SAY WHATEVER.

BUT I DECIDED NOT TO SAY ANYTHING TO THAT MATTER.

AND CHRIS, YOU REMEMBER YOU SAID BYRD COUNCILWOMAN BYRD.

WHAT ARE YOU SAYING? THIS YOU KNOW, WHEN HE WAS REALLY LIKE, HE WANTED TO HEAR WHAT I HAVE TO SAY, BUT I'D ALREADY MADE UP MY MIND THAT I DON'T REALLY NEED TO SPEAK ON THIS IF IT COULD BE MORE SO.

AND I'M NOT MAD AT HIM.

HE'S MY FRIEND. IF IT COULD BE MORE.

SO LET'S JUST STAY TO THE ISSUE.

AND IF WE'RE DISAGREEING, WE'RE DISAGREEING BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT OUR ISSUE IS AND IT DOESN'T HAVE TO COME FROM HIM OR HER.

IT'S JUST WE'RE GOING TO STAY ON POINT.

I NEVER CALLED ANYBODY ELSE'S NAME UNLESS IT'S SOMETHING POSITIVE WHERE I AGREE WITH THEM.

SO I APPRECIATE IF WE DO THAT.

NOW, MACK I'M GOING TO ASK YOU BECAUSE I HAVE IT.

I JUST HAVEN'T REVIEWED IT AS AS EXPLICITLY AS THAT.

BUT IN SOME GOVERNING STANDARDS, IT SAYS THAT BASICALLY ALL COMMENTS ARE TO BE DIRECTED TO THE CHAIR.

THAT'S RIGHT. RATHER THAN TO AN INDEPENDENT PERSON.

AND I DON'T REMEMBER IF THAT'S COVERED IN YOURS, BUT I KNOW IT'S COVERED IN THE EXAMPLE THAT I HAVE.

WE DON'T HAVE IT EXPLICITLY.

IT'S BEEN THE TYPICAL PRACTICE OF OUR COUNCIL AND I THINK ROBERT'S RULES AS WELL.

YEAH. SO SOME OF THOSE PLACES ARE PLACES THAT IF YOU WANTED THAT ITEMIZED SPECIFICALLY, THAT SAYS THAT'S ONE WAY WE THINK WE CAN KEEP FOLKS FROM MAKING THINGS PERSONAL OR FEELING ATTACKED OR WE CAN JUST DO LIKE RON SUGGESTED, AND YOU COULD JUST TELL THE MAYOR WHAT YOU WANT HIM TO TELL US AND THEN TELL HIM TO SHUT UP. YES, MA'AM.

SO I HAVE A QUESTION ALONG THOSE LINES.

YOU MENTIONED EARLIER TO NOT HAVE THE CITY MANAGER OR CITY ATTORNEY CALL BALLS AND STRIKES.

THAT'S NOT FAIR. AGREED.

MY QUESTION IS THEN, HOW DO WE ARRIVE AT A PROCESS THAT WE CAN AGREE TO THAT ALLOWS THOSE LINES AND THEN ALLOWS US TO I MEAN, AGAIN, ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM IS THE MARIJUANA ORDINANCE.

THERE'S SOME THAT BELIEVE IT DOESN'T VIOLATE STATE LAW.

THERE ARE SOME THAT DON'T BELIEVE IT VIOLATES THE CITY CHARTER.

THERE ARE SOME THAT BELIEVE IT DOES VIOLATE THE CITY CHARTER.

SOME BELIEVE IT DOES VIOLATE STATE LAW.

SOME BELIEVE WE HAVE THAT AUTHORITY.

SOME BELIEVE WE DON'T. SO HOW DO YOU.

HOW DO WE ARRIVE AT A SITUATION WHERE IF WE GET A LEGAL STATUS REPORT, WHICH IS ONLY PRIVY TO US, THAT WE THEN INTERNALIZE THAT INFORMATION AND GOVERN OURSELVES ACCORDINGLY? OR WE'RE GOING TO GO BEYOND THAT AND SAY THAT THERE'S A POSSIBILITY THAT THAT'S INCORRECT.

OR WE GO. OFF WE GO.

SO SO I TAKE YOUR POINT ABOUT HOW TO WHAT ROBERT'S RULES, BUT THERE'S OBVIOUSLY ALWAYS GOING TO BE GRAY AREA.

SO IT'S A MATTER OF SOLICITING YOUR HELP TO HOW DO WE NAVIGATE THAT GRAY AND WHERE DO WE THEN DRAW THE BOUNDARIES TO SAY, IF THIS IS DONE, THEN WE PLAY WITHIN THIS THESE PARAMETERS? WELL, AND THE ANSWER IS IN TWO PARTS.

NUMBER ONE IS COUNSEL HAS THE RIGHT TO DO.

IF YOU TAKE NOTHING ELSE AWAY FROM THIS, STAFF RELEASE THE EMOTION OF IT.

[03:00:01]

HOWEVER, STAFF, IT IS ABSOLUTELY THEIR RESPONSIBILITY AND ABSOLUTELY REASONABLE OF THEM TO SAY, IF YOU DO THIS, WE WILL GET SUED OR THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY THIS THESE ARE THE RAMIFICATIONS OF THAT COUNSEL STILL HAS THE RIGHT AT THE END OF THE DAY TO DO IT.

SO IF YOUR PROCESS LACKS INTEGRITY, THAT ALLOWS THOSE DECISIONS TO BECOME, WELL, WELL STAFF, LET THEM OR SO-AND-SO DID THIS.

BUT IF YOU FULLY VETTED IT AND YOU SAT AND YOU TALKED ABOUT IT, YOU WORKED IT THROUGH YOUR WORKSHOP SYSTEM AND ALL OF THESE OTHER THINGS AND COUNCIL DECIDED TO DO DUMB.

COUNCIL DID DUMB AND IT YOU GET SUED.

YOU GET SUED. BUT AT LEAST YOU CAN SAY WE WENT THROUGH THIS PROCESS TO DO IT.

SO IT DOESN'T IT'S NEVER GOING TO FIX THAT THAT SOMETIMES THERE'S GOING TO BE A DECISION MADE THAT'S GOING TO AVAIL YOU TO SOME SORT OF THING THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO AVOID AT ALL COSTS.

NOW, I WILL SAY THE CITY ATTORNEY IN MY CITY, WHO NOW SERVES ANOTHER CITY, WOULD SAY, IT'S MY JOB TO KEEP YOU OUT OF JAIL.

LIKE THAT WAS HER LITMUS TEST.

IT WAS I'M GOING TO TELL YOU IF THIS IS GOING TO PUT YOU IN JAIL AND AT THAT POINT, SHE'S GOING TO PUT HER FOOT DOWN TO THE DEGREE POSSIBLE TO KEEP YOU OUT OF JAIL.

NOW BEING SUED.

BY THE COUNTY OR BY THE WHOEVER.

DIFFERENT STORY.

YES, THERE'S FINANCIAL IMPLICATIONS.

AND IF YOU'RE WILLING TO BEAR THAT, AND THAT'S THE DECISION YOU MAKE, THAT'S WHAT YOU GET.

BUT BACK TO HAVE WE GONE THROUGH THE PROCESS APPROPRIATELY OR DID WE RUSH TO A DECISION THAT IS GOING TO NOT PRODUCE THE BEST RESULTS, BUT YOU MAY LOSE.

SO I KNOW THAT'S NOT LIKE FINITE AND.

SURE. NO, NO, THAT'S RIGHT.

THAT'S REALITY. SO BUT I ASKED THE CITY MANAGER TO TAKE A NOTE.

I WANT THAT THAT WE TALK ABOUT LEGAL FEES AND PROJECTIONS.

I'D LIKE THAT BROKEN DOWN PER HOUSEHOLD PER 100, BECAUSE I HAVE THIS CONVERSATION.

AND WHEN I HAD THE CONVERSATION WITH THE PERSON AND I SAID, HEY, THIS AFFECTS YOUR HOUSE VALUE BY $6,000, THEN THEY'RE LIKE, OH, I DIDN'T KNOW THAT.

RIGHT? AND SO THIS AMBIGUOUS LEGAL FEES OF $100,000, THAT MATTERS, BUT IT DOESN'T HIT HOME.

AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PRICING PEOPLE OUT OF THEIR HOMES.

AND SO JUST I HAVE A LIST OF THINGS THAT THAT HAVE ALREADY KIND OF TAKEAWAYS.

BUT THAT ONE, I WANT TO GET OUT THERE STRAIGHT AWAY.

I THINK COMMUNICATING HOW IT AFFECTS EVERY HOUSE, EVERY HOMEOWNER IS IMPORTANT TO ME.

AS LONG AS WE ARE COMMUNICATING SPECIFICALLY THE ISSUE AND GIVING BOTH SIDES VERSUS TRYING TO LEAD THEM TO AN OPINION, THERE'S A VERY BIG DIFFERENCE THERE THAT STAFF HAS.

YOU KNOW, IT'S ONE THING TO FOR A SPECIFIC ACTION.

SO IF MY IF I AM PROMOTING TO THE CITY THAT WE WANT TO START A RECYCLING PROGRAM AND WE WANT EVERYONE TO RECYCLE AND THIS COULD SAVE THEM THIS MUCH IN A HOUSEHOLD AND DA DA DA DA DA DA DA, AND THERE'S NO BALLOT INITIATIVE.

THERE'S NOTHING BEING PUT FORWARD TO THE VOTERS THAT THIS IS WHAT THE CITY HAS DECIDED ON ITS VISION.

ABSOLUTELY. YOU CAN SAY THIS IS WHAT YOU RECYCLE, THIS IS HOW YOU RECYCLE.

THIS IS WHEN YOU RECYCLE THAT'S INSTRUCTIONAL.

IT TELLS THEM THIS IS THE ACTION THAT YOU NEED TO TAKE WHEN YOU ARE TRYING TO COLOR PEOPLE'S OPINIONS.

THAT'S WHERE THERE'S A GRAY AREA FOR STAFF AND THEY HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL.

IT'S REALLY CLEAR WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT BALLOT INITIATIVES, WHAT YOU CAN AND CANNOT DO AND HOW YOU CAN AND CANNOT SAY IT.

BUT I WOULD ARGUE TO YOU THAT YOU NEVER WANT TO PUT THE CITY IN THE POSITION BECAUSE IN THIS CASE, WITH THIS ISSUE IN PARTICULAR, YOU HAVE A DIVIDED COUNCIL.

AND SO THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO PICK SIDES ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.

SO HONESTLY, IT'S IF IT IS, HERE ARE THE THE POTENTIAL LAW INFRACTIONS.

HERE IS WHAT THE VOTERS SAID AND YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN, LIKE JUST THE FACTS.

THAT INCLUDES SOME FINANCIAL DATA.

OKAY. BUT THERE JUST HAS TO BE SUCH A BALANCE ON AND YOU'RE NOT THE ONLY CITY DEALING WITH THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE, CLEARLY.

AND YOU WON'T BE THE ONLY CITY.

AND THIS IS GOING TO BEAR OUT OVER THE NEXT HOWEVER MANY YEARS.

I MEAN, THE LEGISLATURE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

BUT BUT AND SO IT'S HOW COMFORTABLE ARE YOU WITH BEING IN THE LEAD AND THE ONE THAT TAKES THE FALL FIRST, IF THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS? IT COULD BE THAT YOU'RE THE LEADER AND IT TURNS OUT TO BE THAT IT CHANGES THE ENTIRE STATE, BUT IT COULD BE THE OPPOSITE.

AND SO, AGAIN, BACK TO THE INTEGRITY OF THE PROCESS AND MAKING SURE YOU'VE HEARD EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE THINGS TO GIVE THEM PLENTY OF OPPORTUNITIES FOR THE COMMUNITY TO SAY, I'M NOT WILLING TO TAKE THAT RISK OR I AM WILLING TO TAKE THAT RISK.

WELL, AND I'LL TAKE THAT.

AND I LIKE THANK YOU FOR THE FEEDBACK.

AND SO MY QUESTION WOULD BE WE GET THOSE NUMBERS ANYWAY.

SO IT SAYS THIS IS HOW MUCH IT COULD COST.

IS THAT AN ERROR TO THEN GIVE THAT A DIFFERENT UNIT BREAKDOWN? IS THAT LEADING OR NO? IT DEPENDS.

I MEAN, IN THIS CASE, I WOULD WANT TO LOOK, I WAS I WAS A COMMUNICATIONS PROFESSIONAL FOR MOST OF MY CAREER.

AND SO I WOULD WANT TO LOOK AT IT BECAUSE I WANT TO KNOW EVERYTHING AND THEN FIGURE OUT WHAT FEELS AND DOESN'T FEEL RIGHT.

[03:05:05]

PRETTY MUCH EVERYBODY WAS MILITARY CONNECTED IN SOME WAY, SHAPE OR FORM.

SO HOW DO YOU COMMUNICATE THAT THERE IS THIS DIRE BLEEDING OF OUR ABILITY TO PROVIDE SERVICES THAT IS BEING SHIFTED TO THESE OTHER TAXPAYERS? WITHOUT SAYING VETERANS, YOU'RE SUCKING THE SYSTEM DRY, RIGHT? SO IT'S A VERY DELICATE BALANCE.

AND SO I HAD A CITY MANAGER WHO WANTED TO GO DOWN TO LINE ITEM DETAIL AND SAY THEY'RE GOING TO DO THIS, THAT AND THE OTHER.

IN THAT CASE, IT WAS AN EMOTIONAL REACTION THAT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO SAY, BUT THEY GAVE EVERYTHING TO OUR COUNTRY.

YOU CAN'T COME BACK AT THAT.

SO THE MORE NITPICKY AND THE MORE DOWN IN THE WEEDS YOU GET, THE MORE IT TURNS OFF THE VERY PEOPLE YOU'RE TRYING TO ATTRACT BECAUSE THEY BECOME DEFENSIVE OF IT.

SO IF IT'S DATA THAT'S GENERALLY AVAILABLE AND YOU WANT TO JUST SAY, HEY, HERE'S OUR FAQ PAGE ABOUT THE MARIJUANA ISSUE AND HERE'S EVERYTHING THAT WE HAVE ACCESS TO.

AND SO YOU HAVE ACCESS TO IT.

AND IT'S JUST HERE'S JUST THE BLIND DATA VERSUS A MAILER THAT GOES TO EVERY HOUSEHOLD AND SAYS, THIS IS GOING TO COST YOU $6,000.

YOU KNOW, YOU SEE, YEAH, SURE, SURE, SURE, YEAH.

AND SO THAT'S WHERE I THINK SARA IS GOING WITH THIS MORE STRATEGIC.

COMMUNICATION. BECAUSE IF WE GO BACK TO THE CHART I SHOWED EARLIER, YOU'VE GOT THIS GAP NOW BETWEEN WHO'S WATCHING MEDIA AND WHO'S LISTENING TO SOCIAL MEDIA.

AND SO CITIES ARE ABLE TO FILL THAT VOID WITH ACTUALLY JUST PUTTING THE INFORMATION OUT THERE.

IT DOESN'T MEAN EVERYBODY'S GOING TO LOOK, BUT IT ALSO GIVES YOU AS COUNCIL, THE ABILITY TO SAY, HAVE YOU CHECKED OUT THAT PAGE ON THE WEBSITE WITH ALL THE DATA AND THEY CAN DO WHATEVER THEY WANT WITH IT.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO GET IN THE MIDDLE OF SAYING, OH, WELL, I'LL GIVE YOU THIS PIECE, BUT THEN I MAY NOT GIVE YOU THIS PIECE.

IS THAT. YEAH, PLEASE.

OR WERE YOU ALL GOOD? THANK YOU. YES, SURE.

IF THIS IS EXACTLY WHERE YOU'RE TRYING TO GET US TO SHIP THIS IN, TO ME, THIS IS A GREAT EXAMPLE OF WHERE THE THE BEST ULTIMATE OUTCOME WOULD NOT BE FROM JUST DEBATING YES VERSUS NO, BUT FROM HEARING THE CONTRIBUTIONS, YOU KNOW, CRAFTING A DIFFERENT PLACE TO LAND BY.

AND LET ME JUST ILLUSTRATE MY POINT IN THE DEBATE ON THAT ISSUE.

COUNCIL MEMBER WATTS, WHO VOTED OPPOSITE THE WAY I DID, SAID A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT I THOUGHT WERE BLAZINGLY TRUE.

YOU SAID THAT, YOU KNOW, I'M VERY CONFIDENT IN WHAT I SAID.

YEAH, THAT'S TRUE.

YOU SAID IT WAS AN UNVETTED PROPOSITION, ILL CRAFTED, PROBLEMATIC WORDS TO THAT EFFECT, AND YOU DISAGREE WITH IT AND THAT YOU AGREED WITH THE INTENTION OR THE ULTIMATE GOAL.

THE PROBLEM THAT WE WANT TO SOLVE, BUT THAT WE OUGHT TO BE CREATIVE AND THAT THERE MUST BE I FORGET WHAT TERM YOU USE, BUT IT MUST BE A ZILLION WAYS TO THINK ABOUT IT.

SO I WANT YOU TO GET THOSE POINTS.

YOU VOTED THE OPPOSITE WAY THAT YOU SAID IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE.

AND I HOPE TO HEAR.

YOU KNOW, SOME STARTING THOUGHTS.

YOU KNOW, I HOPE THERE'S SOME OPPORTUNITY WHEN WE GET TO PRIORITIES, YOU KNOW, POLICY PRIORITIES OF CREATIVE WAYS THAT DON'T VIOLATE STATE LAW.

DON'T ALIENATE THE POLICE OR PUT THEM IN A WEIRD POSITION, BUT SOMEHOW GO AFTER THAT OBJECTIVE THAT THE VOTERS, JUST AS PLAINLY AS YOU CAN SAY, THIS IS EXPENSIVE AND LOOK HOW SILLY IT IS BECAUSE OF HOW EXPENSIVE IT IS.

YOU CAN ALSO PLAINLY SAY THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE VOTED FOR SOMETHING.

THEY ONLY HAD ONE WAY TO VOTE THAT WAY.

SO, YOU KNOW, THE THIS IS ALL TO SAY, I THINK WE'LL GET TO AN AWESOME RESULT.

THE COMMUNITY WILL LIKE IF WE BUILD ON THOSE INSIGHTS.

HOW MUCH TIME WAS DEVOTED IN TOTAL AT THE MEETING? IN A PUBLIC MEETING TO TO THE DEBATE OR DELIBERATION? LOTS OF MEETINGS, MAYBE TWO, TWO HOURS.

AND LET ME SAY THIS, AND THIS IS A THIS IS A GREAT EXAMPLE OF WHAT I TRIED TO SAY BEFORE ABOUT I'M OKAY WITH AGREEMENT OR DISAGREEMENT.

WHAT I WANT IS TO BE ABLE TO HAVE A PROCESS THAT FEELS VETTED, FEELS CREATIVE.

AND SO, PAUL, WHAT I SAID WAS, YES, THAT THIS WASN'T THE SITUATION, SO THEREFORE I'M VOTING AGAINST IT SIMPLY BECAUSE WE WENT STRAIGHT FROM A WORK SESSION TO A VOTE.

AND IT'S THE FIRST TIME THAT THIS BODY HAD EVER HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO EVEN TALK ABOUT IT OUTSIDE OF A TWO MINUTE PITCH, WHICH IS TWO MINUTES FOR ONE PERSON, ONE MINUTE FOR THE OTHER PERSON. SO.

MY COMMENTS STILL RING TRUE.

IT'S JUST GIVEN THAT CIRCUMSTANCE, THAT ENVIRONMENT THAT WAS BROUGHT TO THE BOAT, THAT WAS WHAT THE COUNCIL DECIDED IN THE WORK SESSION.

SO MY COMMENTS STILL STAND.

BUT THAT'S A GREAT EXAMPLE OF WHEN I'M MAKING A DECISION.

OKAY. HAVE WE HAD ENOUGH TIME TO TALK ABOUT THIS?

[03:10:02]

THEN WHAT DO WE HAVE? TWO HOURS? YOU SAID ABOUT TWO HOURS OF PUBLIC COMMENT.

AND THEN WE HAD OUR COMMENT, WHICH WAS LESS THAN THAT, PROBABLY ABOUT 30 MINUTES.

40 MINUTES. THAT'S IT.

ON ONE OF THE MOST NOT, I MUST SAY, CONTROVERSIAL POTENTIAL CONTROVERSIAL VOTES AND ALL THE CRAZINESS IN THE STATE.

AND I JUST IT'S LIKE SO I WOULD HOPE MOVING FORWARD, NO MATTER HOW WE ALL PAN OUT IN THE FOURTH, IT DOESN'T MATTER AS LONG AS WE ARE HAVING DISCUSSION AT THE COUNCIL LEVEL, BECAUSE THAT'S PEOPLE ELECTED US TO DO JUST THAT.

AND THAT'S ALL I CARE ABOUT.

IF YOU IF WE DISAGREE AND WE'VE BEEN ON COUNCIL BEFORE, YOU KNOW, WE VOTED ON THE SAME THINGS TOGETHER AND WE VOTE.

I MEAN, I VOTED AGAINST A POWER PLANT.

LORD, YOU CAN'T IMAGINE HOW MUCH FLAK I CAUGHT ON THAT.

I MEAN, JUST TERRIBLE.

TERRIBLE. I DIDN'T CARE.

BUT I REALLY DON'T.

I MEAN, THE ONLY THING I CARE ABOUT IS THE PROCESS.

ANYBODY THAT KNOWS ME, MY MANTRA IS I TRUST THE PROCESS.

BUT WHEN YOU CAN'T TRUST THE PROCESS, THEN THE RESULT OF THAT PROCESS IS IS CALLED INTO QUESTION.

IN MY IN MY OPINION IS EVERYONE, LET'S JUST WE'RE NOT GOING TO DEBATE THAT PARTICULAR ISSUE.

BUT DOES EVERYONE THAT'S ON COUNCIL AND THE CITY MANAGER AGREE THAT THAT WAS NOT A AS ROBUST A PROCESS AS IT NEEDED TO BE OR SHOULD HAVE BEEN? I'M GOING TO JUMP IN. THAT COULD IT COULD.

WE'VE HAD MORE DISCUSSION WITH THIS PARTICULAR BODY, BUT OVER THE LAST THREE INCARNATIONS OF THIS BODY, IT HAS THIS SUBJECT MATTER HAS COME UP 4 OR 5, SIX TIMES WITH SOME LEVEL OF DEBATE AND INTERACTION AND WORKSHOPPING AND WORK SESSION ING AND STAFF REPORTING FOR A YEAR AND A HALF IN THE COMMUNITY.

AND SO.

IT'S ONE OF THOSE TIMES WHEN CHRIS IS RIGHT.

TO EXTEND. I DON'T THINK WE ARE VECTORS DON'T GO THE MAGNITUDES THE SAME BUT IN A SENSE OF THAT PARTICULAR SESSION COULD HAVE HAD MORE DISCUSSION OR THAT THIS PARTICULAR VOTE COULD HAVE HAD MORE DISCUSSION AND NOT OPPOSED TO THAT.

THE BUT THE, THE CONCEPTUAL FRAMEWORK HAD HAD TONS OF DISCUSSION THAT HAD EATEN UP TONS OF OXYGEN FOR A YEAR AND A HALF NOW.

SO WHERE DO YOU FALL ON THAT? YOU KNOW, DO DO DO WE NEED SO, I MEAN, IT'S WORTHWHILE TO ARGUE HOW MUCH DISCUSSION YOU HAVE ON A PARTICULAR VOTE VERSUS HOW MUCH DISCUSSION YOU HAVE OVER A FRAMEWORK OF VOTES.

AND I'M ONLY INJECTING THAT AS A LITTLE BIT OF CONTEXTUAL.

NO, I AGREE. IN I, I WAS GOING TO SAY THAT PROBABLY IN A MORE KINDERGARTEN LEVEL TYPE WAY, BUT I DO REMEMBER US JUST WE, WE WE WE WE HAD BEEN AROUND AND AROUND.

I REMEMBER SPECIFICALLY I WAS ASKING, WELL, WHAT DOES TWO OUNCES OF MARIJUANA LOOK LIKE? BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW.

YOU KNOW, AND SO THE CHIEF KIND OF LIKE, YOU KNOW, KIND OF PUT IT UP THERE FOR AN EYEBALL VIEW.

AND AND IN MY HEAD, I WAS LIKE, OH, MY GOSH, THERE'S A LOT OF MARIJUANA.

BUT I DIDN'T KNOW, YOU KNOW? SO WE HAD TO GET TO THAT POINT AND WE HAD TO GO THROUGH THESE THINGS.

AND THEN EVEN ONE OF OUR FORMER CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS, WHO'S THE DA, YOU KNOW, HERE, HE SAID, LET'S TRY IT AGAIN.

LET'S SEND IT BACK ONE MORE TIME BECAUSE WE WANTED TO JUST REALLY, REALLY WORK ON IT.

AND WE DID.

AND IT'S JUST THAT NIGHT THAT HE'S SPEAKING OF.

THAT'S WHERE I'D ALREADY HEARD IT AND HEARD IT.

IT'S TIME FOR US TO HAVE A STATEMENT ON IT NOW.

SO I APPRECIATE HIM BRINGING THAT IN.

AND ALL THE CITIZENS.

ALL THE CITIZENS.

I YOU KNOW, AND I'LL JUST LEAVE IT THERE BECAUSE I WAS GOING TO SAY SOMETHING ELSE.

BUT, YOU KNOW, IT WAS A IT WAS A GOOD CONVERSATION, BUT WE HAD TO FINALLY JUST LIKE, OKAY, WE JUST NEED TO VOTE ON THIS AND GET THIS DONE.

NOW WE CAN MOVE ON TO OTHER IMPORTANT THINGS.

BRANDON, YOU HAD YOUR HAND UP.

WE'RE GOING TO SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THIS REAL QUICK.

GO AHEAD. YOU GO FIRST. NO, I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY, AND I APPRECIATE MAYOR PRO TEM BRINGING THAT UP AND TO PUT IT IN MORE OF A TOTALITY CONTEXT, THAT WAS AND THE COUNCIL AS A WHOLE IN A WORK SESSION VOTED TO NOT BACK BEFORE I WAS ON COUNCIL TO MOVE THAT ISSUE FORWARD.

SO I'M NOT SAYING ABOUT THE SUBJECT MATTER IN GENERAL.

I'M TALKING ABOUT THE WAY IT WAS PRESENTED TO US IN THE ORDINANCE FORM THAT WAS ON THE BALLOT INITIATIVE.

IT'S NOT ABOUT THE SUBJECT SO MUCH.

YES, THAT'S BEEN TALKED ABOUT AD NAUSEAM.

IT'S ABOUT THIS ORDINANCE THAT'S ON THE BOOKS THAT HAD THESE TERMS THAT WE'VE BEEN TOLD.

SO THAT'S THE ONLY THING I'M SAYING IS I TOTALLY AGREE.

THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF DISCUSSION ON IT IN THE PAST, BUT IN VERY GENERAL FORM.

[03:15:04]

SO THAT'S MORE OF WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT.

NOT SO MUCH. OH, WHEN THEY TALKED ABOUT IT AND DIDN'T DO IT.

AND THAT'S WHAT SPURRED THE INITIATIVE PETITION.

AND THEN WE GOT THIS ORDINANCE.

SO I JUST WANTED TO MAKE THAT CLEAR.

I WASN'T SAYING THEY HADN'T TALKED ABOUT IT.

WE HADN'T TALKED ABOUT IT. THIS IS THE SOLUTION, RIGHT? HERE'S THE SOLUTION. SPECIFIC DECISION, RIGHT? YES. PIECE. THANK YOU, BRANDON.

BRANDON, TO YOUR EARLIER CONVERSATION WITH THE MAYOR, I WAS GOING TO GIVE SOME FLIERS, IF YOU DON'T MIND.

SO I'VE SAID THIS TO HIM IN PRIVATE, SO I'LL SAY IT IN PUBLIC.

SO IN MY ONE YEAR ON COUNCIL, THE ONE VOTE THAT I REGRET, THE ONE THING THAT I'M ABSOLUTELY GOING ON RECORD ABOUT SAYING I ABSOLUTELY GOT WRONG WAS THE FIREWORKS SHOW, AND I SHOULD NOT HAVE VOTED YES.

I MADE THE WRONG VOTE.

THAT'S OKAY, IN MY OPINION.

TO HIS POINT, MAYOR PRO TEM WAS A NO VOTE ON THAT AND HE'S BEEN CONSISTENT WITH THAT.

BUT WHENEVER WE HAVE BEEN IN PUBLIC TOGETHER, I'VE SEEN HIM DO IT THREE TIMES I CAN THINK OF RIGHT NOW.

MAYOR PRO TEM HAS DEFENDED WHAT THE COUNCIL VOTED FOR.

IT WAS A 6 TO 1 VOTE.

HE WAS THE ONLY ONE WHO VOTED NO.

BUT HE HAS DEFENDED WHAT ALL OF US VOTED FOR AND AUTHORIZING THE FIREWORKS SHOW LAST YEAR TO BE HELD AT THAT LOCATION CLOSE TO THE DOG PARK.

SO TO YOUR TO YOUR RESPONSE TO HIM, WHAT I WOULD SAY IS THAT WHENEVER WE HAVE A VOTE, WHETHER YOU END UP ON THE RIGHT SIDE OR THE WRONG SIDE OF IT, IT IS OUR JOB TO DEFEND WHAT THE COUNCIL HAS DONE.

WE HAVE TO ALL DEFEND WHAT THE COUNCIL HAS DONE.

EVEN IF WE WERE ON THE WRONG SIDE OF IT.

WE CAN'T GO THEN AND SAY, WELL, PEOPLE FELT LIKE THEY'RE BREAKING THE LAW.

PEOPLE FELT LIKE THIS PUTS PEOPLE AT ODDS WITH EACH OTHER.

WE ARE MEMBERS OF THE SAME BODY, SO WE HAVE TO DEFEND WHAT THE BODY HAS DONE, EVEN IF WE PASSIONATELY DISAGREE WITH IT.

I'M I HAVE NEVER BEEN MAYOR.

ONLY TWO OF YOU ALL HAVE. BUT I WOULD ASSUME THAT THAT IS THE JOB OF THE PERSON WHO IS IN THE CATBIRD SEAT TO DEFEND WHAT THE BODY HAS VOTED FOR, NO MATTER HOW WHAT SIDE OF THE ISSUE THEY CAME UP ON. I'M JUST SAYING ON THAT PARTICULAR ISSUE, YOU SEE, I'VE SEEN HIM DO THAT EVEN THOUGH HE PASSIONATELY, LITERALLY WHEN WE GOT UP FROM THE DAIS THAT NIGHT, HE SAID THE SAME THING. JOE SAID HE WAS LIKE, I HEAR YOU.

YOU'RE WRONG. AND BRIAN, DO YOU REMEMBER THAT? AND TO THAT, TO HIS POINT, I HAVE SINCE SEEN THE DATA.

I HAVE PUT MYSELF IN A POSITION WHERE I NOW KNOW MORE.

WHEN YOU KNOW BETTER, YOU DO BETTER.

AND I REALIZE NOW I WAS WRONG.

SO THANK YOU FOR THAT.

MAYOR PRO TEM. OKAY.

THESE WERE NOT UNIVERSAL OPINIONS.

THESE ARE SOME OF THE OPINIONS THAT CAME.

IT COULD HAVE BEEN ONE PERSON, COULD HAVE BEEN THREE PEOPLE, COULD HAVE BEEN FIVE PEOPLE.

BUT BUT LET'S JUST WALK THROUGH THESE AND THEN WE'RE GOING TO MOVE INTO ACTUALLY TALKING ABOUT SOME PARTICULAR POLICIES.

SOME PEOPLE FEEL THAT SOME MEMBERS HAVE ABSOLUTELY ZERO DESIRE TO BUILD BRIDGES, TO TALK TO EACH OTHER, TO AFFILIATE WITH EACH OTHER IN ANY WAY, AND THAT THEY DON'T SEE THE THE POTENTIAL IN SOME OF THESE RELATIONSHIPS FOR THEM TO BE REPAIRED.

AND SOME PEOPLE FEEL THAT COUNCIL IS GETTING TOO FAR INTO THE WEEDS, MEANING GETTING TOO FAR DOWN IN WHAT STAFF IS DOING, AND THEN OTHERS FEEL IT'S OKAY AND THAT THERE ARE CIRCUMSTANCES THAT DICTATE BEING DOWN IN THE WEEDS AND GETTING TO THE NITTY GRITTY DETAILS.

SOME PEOPLE FELT THAT THERE WERE INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS OF USING STAFF TIME.

UM, SOME PEOPLE FELT THAT THE MANAGER NEEDS THE AUTHORITY AND THE RESPECT TO BE ABLE TO SAY NO WHEN THE ANSWER IS NO AND NOT BE SORT OF PRESSURED ABOUT SAYING NO.

SOME OF THAT IS LIKE, LET'S CLEARLY DELINEATE WHAT IS IS THE EXPECTATION.

AND I HAVE A SUGGESTION FOR THAT HERE IN A SECOND.

SOMETIMES STAFF OVERSTEPS ITS ROLE.

SOMEONE SAID GETS AHEAD OF THEIR SKIS, MEANING THAT SOMETIMES THEY STEP INTO THAT LEADERSHIP AND TRIES TO LEAD THE BODY IN A DIRECTION WHEN IT'S THE BODY'S DECISION TO MAKE. COUNCIL NEEDS TO COMMIT TO AND STICK TO ITS ACTION PRIORITIES.

SO WHEN YOU ALL TALK ABOUT YOUR VISION, STRATEGIC PLAN AND ALL OF THAT STUFF IN A SUBSEQUENT MEETING SAYING, YOU KNOW WHAT, THAT IS IT.

THE BUDGET IS BASED ON THAT, AND THAT IS WHERE WE'RE GOING TO FOCUS OUR EFFORTS INSTEAD OF ON THE SPECIAL INTERESTS THAT MIGHT COME FORWARD THROUGHOUT THE YEAR.

PEOPLE SAID THAT THE MAYOR RUNS A GOOD MEETING AND ALMOST EVERYONE SAID THAT.

BUT THEN THERE WERE A FEW PEOPLE WHO SAID THAT THEY FELT THAT HE PLAYED FAVORITES AND DID SOME GRANDSTANDING, WHICH WE'VE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT ALREADY.

SO THERE IS A LACK OF RESPECT FOR THE MAYOR'S POSITION, IN SOME CASES, MEANING HIS BEING THE MAYOR AND NOT JUST ANOTHER MEMBER, THOUGH HE IS ANOTHER MEMBER. GOT IT.

BUT IN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES, HE IS HE'S HE RUNS THE MEETINGS IN ALL CIRCUMSTANCES.

COUNCIL NEEDS MORE TIME FOR DISCUSSION AND COLLABORATION.

WE JUST TOUCHED ON ONE OF THOSE ISSUES.

AND YOU NEED THE THE THE TOOL THAT SAYS WE NEED MORE DISCUSSION ON THIS.

[03:20:04]

BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE FELT THAT IT WAS INEFFECTIVE AND THAT IT RUSHED DECISION MAKING.

WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT, TOO.

WE NEED MORE STAFF DRIVEN PUBLIC EVENTS VERSUS JUST THE SORT OF COUNCIL DRIVEN PUBLIC EVENTS TO PUT MORE INFORMATION OUT TO THE PUBLIC.

HOW DO WE GET OUT IN THE COMMUNITY AND TELL OUR STORY BETTER THAT MEMBERS SOME MEMBERS ARE BEING LED BY OUTSIDE OPINIONS, BUT THEY'RE NOT BEING TRANSPARENT ABOUT IT, NOT BEING UPFRONT. THAT SAYS NO.

YEAH, THIS IS THIS IS WHAT THEY WANT.

I'M GOING TO I'M GOING TO DO IT FOR THEM.

TAKING ON ISSUES BEYOND CITY'S AUTHORITY, WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT SOME OF THOSE AND KIND OF THE BIGGER PICTURE THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING MAYBE NATIONALLY OR STATEWIDE THAT THE CITY WANTS TO HAVE SOME INPUT AND SAY AND LOCALLY.

AND THEN THERE WERE SOME ISSUES WITH THE COMMITTEE APPOINTMENT PROCESS.

OH, SORRY I CLICKED THROUGH ANY OF THIS.

ANYBODY NEEDS TO TOUCH ON.

YEAH, PLEASE. VICKI.

HOW IS THE TWO MINUTE PITCH? INEFFECTIVE. I'VE BEEN APPRECIATING THE TWO MINUTE PITCH.

EXACTLY. YEAH.

SO? SO SOME PEOPLE FELT THAT IT WAS A TOOL TO RUSH TO MAKING A DECISION WITHOUT GOING THROUGH A DELIBERATIVE PROCESS.

THE TWO MINUTE PITCH IS DESIGNED FOR US TO CONSIDER IT.

YOU KNOW, ADDITIONAL INFORMATION TO COME BACK TO US AND WE CAN SAY YES OR NO TO THAT.

WE CAN WE CAN VOTE IT DOWN OR WE CAN SAY YES.

WE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE A BIT MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THAT.

IS IT A HIGH PRIORITY, MEDIUM PRIORITY, LOW PRIORITY? AND THEN THE TWO CITIES, THE CITIES RUN, THE CITY RUNS WITH THAT AND BRINGS BACK WHAT WE WHAT WE THINK WE'RE EXPECTING.

SO I'M NOT REALLY SURE.

I THINK IT WAS THAT SOMETIMES EXPECTATIONS MAY BE.

OF HOW MUCH STAFF TIME IT'S GOING TO REQUIRE, HOW MUCH THIS, THAT OR THE OTHER.

AND AS A COURTESY, MEMBERS WILL SAY YES WITHOUT NECESSARILY RECOGNIZING WHAT AN HONEST IT'S GOING TO PUT ON ON TO STAFF.

SO THERE'S NOT AS MUCH DISCUSSION ABOUT IT.

IT DOESN'T ALLOW FOR AS MUCH DISCUSSION ABOUT DO WE REALLY INTEND TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS AND COMMIT RESOURCES OR TIME JUST KIND OF RUSHED? GO AHEAD. WELL, I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW WHO ELSE SAID THAT, BUT I'LL OWN IT.

THAT WAS ONE OF MY STATEMENTS.

BUT THERE WAS A CAVEAT TO IT.

IT'S NOT THAT THE TWO MINUTE PITCH IN ITSELF IS INEFFECTIVE.

I THINK. I THINK THAT WAS YOUR IDEA, COUNCILMEMBER MELTZER.

A FEW RETREATS BACK WHEN I STARTED.

YES. WHAT I'M SAYING IS INEFFECTIVE IS THE OPTION IN THE TWO MINUTE PITCH TO TAKE IT STRAIGHT FROM THE TWO MINUTE PITCH TO A COUNCIL VOTE.

I MEAN, WE'VE DONE THAT ON ON A COUPLE OF OCCASIONS.

AND SO I DON'T THINK THAT THE TWO MINUTE PITCH ITSELF IS INEFFECTIVE.

I THINK THAT OPTION IN THE TWO MINUTE PITCH TO SAY WE GOT A TWO MINUTE PITCH, WE GOT IF WE GOT THE VOTES FOR IF THERE'S FOUR VOTES AND WE'RE GOING TO MOVE IT STRAIGHT TO THE COUNCIL VOTE OUT ON THE DAIS.

AND THAT'S TO ME, THE INEFFECTIVE PART, BECAUSE IT'S LIKE, WAIT A MINUTE.

SO AND THAT'S THAT'S NEW.

I MEAN, THAT WASN'T THERE WHEN I WAS ON COUNCIL.

THERE WAS THE TWO MINUTE PITCH, BUT IT WAS NOT ALLOWED TO GO STRAIGHT TO A COUNCIL VOTE WITHOUT A WORK SESSION.

SO COULD I RESPOND TO THAT? WOULD YOU WOULD YOU FEEL BETTER ABOUT IT IF THERE WERE, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU MADE A TWO MINUTE PITCH AND THERE WAS A MANDATORY TWO WEEK OR TWO MEETING MINIMUM BEFORE IT COULD COME TO COUNCIL, BEFORE IT COULD COME TO A VOTE? NO, NO. I THINK IT'S I THINK THE TWO MINUTE PITCH POLICY WAS TWO MINUTE PITCH.

YOU GET FOUR PEOPLE TO SAY, LET'S MOVE IT TO A WORK SESSION.

I THINK COUNCIL MEMBER MELTZER ASKED FOR ONE THAT SAID BRING IT BACK IN A STAFF REPORT.

I'M SAYING THE ONLY THING THAT I OBJECT TO IS THE OPTION THAT SAYS IT GOES STRAIGHT TO THE COUNCIL VOTE WITHOUT A WORK SESSION.

SO IF YOU WANT TO HAVE ONE WORK SESSION, I DON'T CARE.

YOU HAVE A WORK SESSION, THEN YOU VOTE.

IT'S JUST TO HAVE AN INTERIM TIME, RIGHT? SO INSTEAD OF GOING STRAIGHT TO THE WORK SESSION FROM FROM THE TWO MINUTE PITCH.

SO YOU WOULD LIKE TO HAVE AT LEAST A WORK SESSION BETWEEN THE PITCH AND I WOULD JUST SAY TRUNCATE OFF THAT OPTION.

YOU TRUNCATE OFF THAT OPTION AND THEN IT GOES BACK TO ITS ORIGINAL INTENT AND ITS ORIGINAL FORM, WHICH WAS, YOU KNOW, BRING FORTH YOUR TWO MINUTE PITCH.

PEOPLE GET A MINUTE TO DECIDE AND IF YOU GOT FOUR VOTES, IT GOES TO A WORK SESSION.

THE THING I PARTICULARLY LIKE ABOUT THE TWO MINUTE PITCH IS IT'S TWO MINUTES.

IT'S NOT IT'S NOT 20 MINUTES, IT'S TWO MINUTES.

IT'S JUST THAT ONE OPTION AND WE GET IT OUT THERE.

AND THEN IF IT NOW I DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH WHAT WITH WHAT CHRIS IS SUGGESTING.

I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM TO FLESH IT OUT SOMEPLACE DOWN DOWNSTREAM.

[03:25:01]

I I'M HAPPY WITH THAT. WE HAD A VERSION OF THE TWO MINUTE PITCH WHERE I WAS AND SO I CAN SHOW YOU LIKE SOME ALTERNATIVE THINKING ABOUT IT THAT MIGHT ADDRESS SOME OF THIS WITHOUT REMOVING THE, THE POWER OF BEING ABLE TO BRING AN ISSUE FORWARD.

AND LET ME MAKE LET ME MAKE THIS PERFECTLY CLEAR.

NO, I'M NOT SAYING I'M 100%.

APPROVING OF THE TWO MINUTE PITCH AS IT WAS ORIGINALLY PRESENTED SOMEWHERE WHEN I WAS OFF COUNCIL, IT GOT THE POLICY, GOT AUGMENTED TO SAY, IF YOU DON'T WANT TO GO, WE DON'T HAVE TO GO TO A WORK SESSION.

WE CAN JUST TAKE IT STRAIGHT TO A VOTE WITHOUT ANY KIND OF DISCUSSION.

IF THERE'S FOUR PEOPLE WHO AGREE TO THAT, THAT HAPPENED THIS YEAR.

WHAT'S HAPPENED A COUPLE OF TIMES? NO, I'M TALKING ABOUT THAT POLICY BEING IMPLEMENTED.

IT HAS HAPPENED A COUPLE OF TIMES.

OKAY. BUT THAT'S SO I WANT TO MAKE CLEAR I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THE TWO MINUTE PITCH.

I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE TWO MINUTES.

THE ONE MINUTE. IT'S THAT ONE POLICY THAT SAYS WE CAN AVOID ALL OF THIS AND JUST GO STRAIGHT TO THE DAIS FOR A VOTE THAT WILL MAKE THAT CLEAR. CHRISTIANA YEAH, YEAH, FOR SURE.

THE ORIGINAL PURPOSE.

WHAT WERE YOU RESPONDING TO WHEN YOU CREATED THAT WAS TO ADEQUATELY RATION STAFF TIME, RIGHT? JUST MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S AT LEAST A MAJORITY INTERESTED IN THE SUBJECT BEFORE THEY BURN HOURS ON IT.

SO. SO, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW IF IT DOES THAT WELL ENOUGH, BUT THAT THAT'S WHAT IT DOES.

AND THAT'S WHY IT'S SHORT BECAUSE.

BECAUSE OTHERWISE YOU'RE BURNING WORK SESSION TIME TO DEBATE SOMETHING TO DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT YOU'RE GOING TO EVEN INVESTIGATE IT.

SO THAT'S WHY IT'S SHORT.

I VAGUELY REMEMBER THAT INNOVATION BEING INTRODUCED AS SAYING IT COULD GO STRAIGHT TO RESOLUTION.

I MEAN, I'M SYMPATHETIC TO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.

I DON'T REMEMBER WHY OR WHAT THE CASE WAS.

THE EXAMPLE WAS I WOULD SAY I'M YOU KNOW, I'M SYMPATHETIC TO WHAT YOU JUST SAID.

I'M OPEN TO HEARING LIKE, WHAT WAS THE REASON WHY WE WHAT KIND OF CIRCUMSTANCE AND MAYBE MAYBE IT NEEDS AN ASTERISK OR SOMETHING.

MAYBE IT NEEDS NOT TO BE THERE.

I'M OPEN TO THAT POSSIBILITY.

OR IS THERE SOMETHING WE'RE MISSING? THERE'S LIKE UNDER XYZ CIRCUMSTANCE, YOU CAN DO THAT, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT I UNDERSTAND.

YEAH. YEAH. ANYBODY ELSE ON THIS LIST? OH, I JUST SAW, LIKE, POINT, POINT, POINT, POINT, POINT.

YES. I THINK ABOVE THE TWO MINUTE PITCH NEEDS MORE TIME FOR DISCUSSION.

I THINK THAT WAS ONE OF MINE, AS I REMEMBER THIS BODY HAD SAID COMING OUT OF THE RETREAT LAST YEAR THAT WE WOULD DO THIS TYPE OF THING QUARTERLY AND WE HAVE NOT DONE SO.

SO I THINK THAT THAT'S CERTAINLY ONE OF MINE, YOU KNOW, SOME TYPE OF MINI RETREAT TO JUST MAKE SURE WE'RE, YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE GOING TO THERAPY.

YOU GO TO THERAPY ONCE A YEAR AND EXPECT IT TO WORK.

I THINK IT MIGHT BE MORE HELPFUL IF WE GO TO THERAPY A LITTLE MORE OFTEN AND WE DECIDED THAT WE WERE GOING TO.

SO LET'S ACTUALLY DO IT.

CONFUSED. DID WE DO SAY THAT? I THOUGHT AFTER THE LAST RETREAT WE HAD DECIDED WE WOULD MEET QUARTERLY.

AM I MAKING. I'M NOT MAKING THAT UP.

YOU PROBABLY ARE. I'M NOT SURE.

I'LL GO BACK AND LOOK, BUT THAT'S FINE.

YEAH. I WANT TO SEE YOUR PROCESS AND UNDERSTAND THAT.

AND JUST I WOULD ASK THAT YOU THEN.

HELP US TIE ALL THAT TOGETHER.

RIGHT. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, IF IF WE'RE WE'RE IN OVERTIME NOW, RIGHT? WE'RE DOING THINGS THAT WE DON'T HAVE A CAPACITY FOR STAFF TO EXECUTE ON.

SO WE'VE GOT TO GET BACK TO REGULAR TIME WHERE WE'RE EXECUTING AT 100%, NOT 150.

THEN IF WE WANT TO CREATE CAPACITY FOR OTHER THINGS, WE'VE GOT TO THEN REDUCE FURTHER.

AND SO THEY'RE A PROCESS, RIGHT? YEAH. SO OR JUST AT LEAST RECONCILE THE FACT THAT WE'RE AT 150% RIGHT NOW.

AND SO THE PROSPECT OF ADDING MORE TO THAT IS IS AND.

COMPLICATING THAT IS A WORK ENVIRONMENT THAT CITIES ARE DESPERATE FOR HELP AND HIRING AWAY FROM DIFFERENT CITIES AND TRYING TO BE COMPETITIVE THAT WAY AND THAT SORT OF THING.

SO WE'RE IN AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE WE'RE DOING OUR BEST TO HANG ON TO WHAT WE HAVE.

IN ADDITION, IT'S THIS COMPLEX ENVIRONMENT THAT WE'RE NOT GETTING GREAT RECRUITS OR NOT GETTING RECRUITS AT ALL, SO WE CAN'T FILL GAPS.

WE'RE STILL AT 100. SO IT'S JUST THAT THAT HOLISTIC APPROACH IS I'M ASKING YOU TO HELP US KIND OF AT LEAST IDENTIFY AND PULL IN.

AND HERE'S WHAT WE'VE GOT TO DO, SOME BELT TIGHTENING TO THEN ADD CAPACITY FOR THESE OTHER THINGS THAT WERE THAT ARE ASPIRATIONS TO ADD. BUT BUT ALL THAT'S KIND OF THAT STAFF CONNECTION IS IMPORTANT FOR ME TO HEAR FROM YOU BECAUSE YOU'VE TALKED TO THEM AND YOU'VE HAD THOSE CONVERSATIONS.

[03:30:04]

TO GET TO A A POSITIVE PLACE FOR BOTH OF THOSE ENTITIES.

THESE THINGS HAVE TO HAPPEN.

YEAH. YEAH.

AND SOME OF THAT IS JUST BUILDING IN.

THESE THINGS THAT SAY, OKAY, I'M NOT GOING TO BURDEN STAFF WITH THIS, BUT IT'S ALSO ALLOWING STAFF THE AUTHORITY TO SAY NO AND CREATING A WAY IN WHICH SARA CAN COME TO YOU AND SAY THIS IS THE ISSUE WITHOUT SAYING, YOU KNOW, IT COMING OFF AS A COMPLAINT OR WE JUST DON'T WANT TO DO ANY MORE WORK OR SOME OF THE THINGS THAT KIND OF WHEN YOUR ISSUE FALLS THROUGH THE CRACKS, CAN CAN SEEP IN.

BUT I THINK AND I DON'T KNOW YOU Y'ALL TELL ME AS AS THE GOVERNING BODY, DO YOU WILL YOU WALK AWAY FROM HERE TODAY THINKING, OH, MY GOSH, STAFF IS WE'RE OVERWORKING THEM? OR DO YOU FEEL THAT THEY HAVE CAPACITY? WHAT IS YOUR PERSPECTIVE THAT THAT STAFF IS CONVEYING AND DO WE NEED FURTHER CONVERSATION ABOUT THAT? WE NEED FURTHER CONVERSATION ABOUT THAT.

I DO THINK THAT WE ARE OVERWORKING THEM SOMETIMES, BUT WE'RE WE WANT TO DO WHAT THE PEOPLE WANT US TO DO.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WE'RE STUCK IN THE MIDDLE HERE.

WE WANT TO NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE OKAY AND MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE OKAY AND MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE OKAY.

BUT IF SOMEONE ASKS FOR ME, WHICH THEY EMAIL US ALL THE TIME COLLECTIVELY AS A GROUP OR PULL YOU TO THE SIDE AT CHURCH OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. YEAH, YOU WANT YOU WANT SOME ACTION, BUT IT HAS TO BE VERY REASONABLE.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, IF I CAN GIVE THE ANSWER THE BEST I KNOW, THEN I'LL JUST GO TO THEM AND ASK THEM.

I'VE EVEN, YOU KNOW, ASKED THEM TO GIVE ME THE WORDS TO SAY, TELL ME WHAT TO SAY.

AND THEY ARE VERY GOOD ABOUT DOING THAT.

SO WE HAVE TO BE INTELLIGENT ENOUGH AND MATURE ENOUGH AND CONFIDENT ENOUGH TO LET OUR CONSTITUENTS KNOW THAT IT'S GOING TO TAKE SOME TIME TO GET TO THIS. SO WE'LL CALL YOU BACK MAYBE ABOUT ANOTHER COUPLE OF MONTHS OR SO TO GIVE US SOME TIME.

AND THEY WANT ANSWERS NOW.

SO BEING CONNECTED TO YOUR PEOPLE, KNOWING THAT THEY CAN TRUST YOU TO GET IT DONE, THAT, I THINK, IS WHAT WE SHOULD ALL BE STRIVING TO DO WITHOUT OVERWHELMING OUR ADMINISTRATORS.

WE WANT THEM TO BE OKAY.

AND HOW DO YOU KNOW WHEN YOU ARE? THEY SAY, WELL, YOU KNOW, I LIKE YOU KNOW, I'M JUST KIDDING.

YOU KNOW, THEY'RE GIVING US WHAT WE NEED.

THAT'S HOW I KNOW, BECAUSE I'VE HEARD MY PEER.

THEY PUT IT ON THE ON THE BOARD TO, YOU KNOW, WORK IT OUT AND IT COMES THROUGH.

AND THE OTHER PEER, THEY MAY HAVE SOMETHING.

IT COMES THROUGH. AND HOW DO YOU KNOW WHEN STAFF IS OVERWHELMED? UM, I THINK THAT THEY DO A GREAT JOB.

USUALLY WHEN THEY PULL THAT THAT AGENDA SHEET OUT.

OKAY, WE CAN'T DO THIS UNTIL SEPTEMBER.

AND THEY LET US KNOW THAT THAT'S NOT WE CAN'T DO IT NOW, BUT WE'LL TRY TO SQUEEZE IT IN IN SEPTEMBER.

WE'LL TRY TO SQUEEZE IT IN IN NOVEMBER.

BUT HERE ARE THE OTHER THINGS THAT WE HAVE TO DO.

I RESPECT THAT.

I DON'T GO BACK AND SAY, HEY, PUT MY STUFF ON TOP.

AND I'VE DONE CITYWIDE TYPE PROJECTS FOR QUALITY OF LIFE TYPE STUFF, AND IT'S COME THROUGH, BUT NOT IN MY TIMELY MANNER.

BUT IT'S OKAY AND WE'VE GOT TO MATURE TO THAT.

YEAH, I THINK, AGAIN, TO PUT A LITTLE CONTEXT ON THINGS AND YOU THINK WE NEED TO CONTEXTUALIZE THE DIFFERENT KINDS OF REQUESTS, THERE WILL BE INFORMATIONAL REQUESTS THAT THAT TAKE OVER TWO HOURS TO GENERATE THE INFORMATION.

BUT AS A MATTER OF MANAGING EXPECTATIONS IN THE COMMUNITY AND FOR STAFF, YOU KNOW, YOU TAKE THAT TWO AND A HALF OR THREE HOURS AND BAM, THE PROBLEM GOES AWAY BECAUSE THE COMMUNITY THAT REQUESTED IT DIDN'T REALIZE WHAT WAS GOING ON OR WHAT'S UNDERWAY OR THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE DATA.

AND SOMETIMES WE EVEN, YOU KNOW, AFTER YEARS OF EXPERIENCE, STILL LACK.

OKAY. I HEARD THAT IN A FRIDAY REPORT TWO YEARS AGO.

I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT IT IS I'M SEARCHING.

I CAN'T FIND IT ON SMARTSHEET.

SO, YOU KNOW, STAFF HAS GENERALLY ONE STAFF MEMBER HAS THAT GENERALLY AT THEIR FINGERTIPS.

SO OR THE LATEST INCARNATION OF THAT.

SO I THINK THAT SORT OF LEVEL OF EXCHANGE IS, IS PROPHYLACTIC IN THE SENSE THAT IT PREVENTS FUTURE GROUSING IN THE COMMUNITY BECAUSE YOU'VE EXCHANGED INFORMATION, YOU'VE ADDED CLARITY, YOU PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THE SCOPE AND OFTEN THE PROBLEM DISSIPATES AT THAT POINT.

SOMETIMES IT COMES BACK AND YOU'RE LIKE, NO, I'M STILL THIS IS COME ON.

AND, AND SO IF THEN WE ARE AT THE SORT OF INFORMAL STAFF REPORT LEVEL WHERE, YOU KNOW, OKAY, THIS IS GOING TO TAKE ME TWO WEEKS TO PUT TOGETHER OR A WORK SESSION LEVEL, MAYBE THAT'S A MONTH OR X MONTHS TO GET ON THE SCHEDULE.

[03:35:01]

BUT SOME OF THOSE EARLY EFFORTS ARE ARE PROPHYLACTIC IN THE SENSE THAT THEY THEY PREVENT FUTURE WORK SOLVING THAT NOW IS SO I THINK WE DO NEED TO PARSE THE LEVEL OF EXPECTATIONS AND THAT THAT NOT ALL INTERPLAY BETWEEN COUNCIL AND CONSTITUENTS BETWEEN COUNCIL AND STAFF ARE THE SAME.

SO YOU'RE NOT GETTING IT GETTING YOU KNOW, WE HAVE THIS TENDENCY TO STREAMLINE AND SAY THIS IS A TWO MINUTE PITCH BOOM, AND THAT TAKES US X HOURS.

OKAY, WELL, WHAT WHAT KIND OF REMEDY ARE WE ACTUALLY ASKING FOR? AND I THINK THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO TO MAKE SURE THAT WE KEEP IN THE BACK OF OUR MIND THAT WE ARE ASKING THE APPROPRIATE LEVEL OF RESPONSE THAT THE OVER THE APPROPRIATE TIMEFRAME.

IF YOU ACTUALLY HAVE AN ACTION ITEM LIKE, OH, I WANT A NEW BRIDGE, OKAY, THAT'S A FIVE YEAR CAPITAL PROJECT WITH X MILLION DOLLARS AND AND LOTS OF PRE INVOLVEMENT. WE HAVE TO GET LOTS OF THINGS INVOLVED.

SO. THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF ME TALKING MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE, BUT THAT'S OKAY.

I OWN THAT. BUT I DO THINK BUT BUT OVERSIMPLIFYING IS JUST AS DANGEROUS AS AS GETTING INTO THE WEEDS. SO LET'S LET ME JUST BE DEVIL'S ADVOCATE HERE FOR JUST A SECOND, BECAUSE WE'RE ON THE SUBJECT.

SO IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION AND IT TAKES STAFF A COUPLE HOURS TO PULL TOGETHER THE ANSWER AND THERE ARE SEVEN OF YOU.

YOU'RE AT 14 HOURS.

AND IF EVERYBODY ASKS THE QUESTION EVERY WEEK, THAT'S 14 HOURS OF STAFF TIME.

THAT HAS GONE INTO ANSWERING A QUESTION THAT YOU'RE BASICALLY HANDING TO 1 OR 2 PEOPLE MAYBE.

SO I'M JUST I'M PUTTING THAT OUT THERE JUST TO SAY WHAT IS THE BALANCE AND IS THE SOLUTION THAT WE NEED TO MAKE MORE OF THIS INFORMATION AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC IN GENERAL SO THAT PEOPLE CAN JUST BE DIRECTED TO FIND WHAT THEY NEED? THAT'S YOUR POLICY LEVEL DECISION.

SO BUT ALSO, I AGREE WITH IT.

AND I'M I THINK THERE'S A NUMBER OF US THAT HAVE PUSHED DASHBOARDS AND WEB INTERFACE AND AND MORE SELF-SERVICE.

IN FACT, HONESTLY, PROBABLY JUST ABOUT ALL OF THIS, TO BE FRANK, BECAUSE IT HELPS US TO BE ABLE TO ADDRESS DROP AN FAQ AND A URL ON PEOPLE.

WE SEEM VERY RESPONSIVE WHEN WE COME BACK WITH AN ANSWER.

BUT THE THE THE OTHER THING IS THERE'S A PIECE OF THE EQUATION THAT WE'RE SAYING, WELL, HERE'S A CEILING AND WE ONLY HAVE THIS MUCH FINITE CAPACITY.

BUT YOU ALLUDED TO IT AND YOU'RE SORT OF COMMENTS EARLIER, YOU COULD RAISE THAT CEILING, TOO.

AND AND I THINK PART OF THAT IS STAFF SAYING AND US AS DELIBERATIVE BODY SAYING NOW IS THE TIME WHEN TO ANSWER THIS QUESTION, I NEED MORE STAFF IN THIS AREA.

SO, YOU KNOW, PUBLIC SAFETY SAID PROVE TO US WITH DATA METRICS THAT THEY NEEDED X, Y, Z, MORE FIREMEN AND TRUCKS AND LADDERS AND STUFF.

SO THAT WAS EASY FOR US TO SAY, YEAH, NO, ADD 5 OR 6 MORE OR WHATEVER BECAUSE IT'S CLEAR.

BUT IF THE THE ADMINISTRATIVELY YOU NEED TO APPLY THAT SAME THING, LIKE, OKAY, THIS IS OUR TIME COMMITMENT.

WE ARE AT A, YOU KNOW, X PERCENT OR AND THAT'S A GOOD THRESHOLD, 92% OR 82% OF OUR DAILY WEEKLY WORK THRESHOLD.

AND THAT'S THE LEVEL THAT WE WANT TO BE AT.

OH, NO, WE'RE AT 102 AND WE'RE WORKING OVERTIME ALL THE TIME.

WELL, THAT'S OR WHATEVER THE RIGHT NUMBER IS.

LET'S SAY 92 IS YOUR THRESHOLD.

THEN YOU HIRE MORE STAFF TO DO THAT OR YOU MAKE THE EXECUTIVE DECISION THAT, NO, I'M NOT GOING TO THROW THAT INTO THE BUDGET.

I'M NOT GOING TO BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, REASONS AND I DON'T WANT TO GET INTO THE POLITICAL REASONS OF OF, YOU KNOW, TAX RATE AND ALL THAT FOR FOR THIS PART OF THE DISCUSSION.

BUT THERE IS A COMPONENT THAT SAYS RAISE THE THRESHOLD, NOT JUST LIVE WITHIN YOUR THRESHOLD, BUT YOU NEED TO BE AWARE OF BOTH.

RIGHT. BUT IF WE GO BACK TO THE GOVERNANCE CYCLE AND YOU HAVE PUT A PLAN IN PLACE AND SAID STAFF MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS PLAN OVER THE NEXT YEAR. THAT CAPACITY IS BUILT OUT.

THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF WIGGLE ROOM IN THERE.

RIGHT. AND SO WE HAVE TO, AS A GOVERNING BODY, HAVE THE AWARENESS THAT EVERY TIME WE ASK MORE OF THEM, WE'VE GOTTEN OUT OF SYNC WITH THAT SYSTEM.

SO I WOULD ASK SARAH HER OPINION OF THIS, BECAUSE WHEN SHE COMES BACK TO YOU AND SAYS, I NEED MORE ADMINISTRATIVE STAFF TO HANDLE YOUR REQUESTS, BUT YOU ALSO NEED 12 MORE POLICE OFFICERS.

WHAT'S THE COMMUNITY GOING TO SAY? WE DON'T NEED MORE PEOPLE AT CITY HALL.

THIS IS YOUR J.D. ROCKEFELLER.

HAVE THE COURAGE. WELL, THERE YOU HAVE IT.

BUT BUT IT'S THAT SORT OF IT'S THAT SORT OF STUFF WHERE SHE RECOGNIZES SHE HAS THIS MUCH MONEY IN THE BUDGET AND SHE KNOWS YOU HAVE AN EXPECTATION THERE'S GOING TO BE 12 MORE

[03:40:02]

SHE'S PROBABLY NOT GOING TO BRING THIS OTHER THING FORWARD TO YOU.

THEY'RE GOING TO KEEP USING SCOTCH TAPE AND BUBBLE GUM TO FIX IT IN THE BACKGROUND.

AND THAT'S WHAT WE DID.

SO I THINK. RIGHT NOW.

WE HAVE ONE WE HAVE WE HAVE TWO ASSISTANCE TO THE CITY MANAGER AND THEIR GOAL IS TO ASSIST WITH THINGS.

SO ONE OF THEM FULL TIME IS ALL THEY DO IS DEAL WITH COUNCIL REQUESTS AND THOSE THAT ARE FORWARDED ON AND IT'S NOW GONE UP TO ONE AND ONE FOURTH STAFF AND THEN IT TAKES ABOUT 12 HOURS TO DO THE FRIDAY REPORT JUST BY ONE STAFF MEMBER.

AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, THE LAST NOT I THINK NOT THIS PAST ONE, BUT THE ONE BEFORE WAS WAS IT 21 PAGES OR WAS MORE THAN THAT 100? AND IT WAS A REALLY LONG.

THAT TAKES THOSE THOSE TAKE A FULL TIME PERSON WORKING ON THAT FOR ABOUT 24 HOURS.

NOW THAT'S IN ADDITION TO THEM DOING ALL THE COUNCIL REQUESTS AND ANSWERING ALL THE QUESTIONS.

SO THEN THEN IT ALL HAS TO BE PROOFED BY US.

WE PROOF IT ALL AND THEN WE HAVE THE BOND PROGRAM THAT WE'RE I'M NOT PERSONALLY AS MUCH, BUT I KNOW CASSIE AND CHRISTINE AND FRANK ARE WERE WE DOING, YOU KNOW, HAVING TO GO THROUGH THAT PROCESS AND WE ANSWER QUESTIONS? THIS LAST QUESTIONS WAS 40 QUESTIONS THAT WE ANSWERED THAT WENT BACK OUT TO THE GROUP.

48 OKAY.

48. THAT'S BEEN IN ADDITION TO THE FRIDAY REPORT.

THAT'S ADDITION TO THE AND NOW WE'RE IN THE HEIGHT OF BUDGET AND WE WANT TO BRING TO THEM A REALLY GOOD CAPITAL AND GENERAL FUND BUDGET AND WE'RE BEHIND TO PEOPLE.

FRANK SO AND WE'RE GETTING WE ARE GETTING AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF THREE ONE NOT THREE ONE BUT ENGAGE DENTON REQUEST, WHICH WE WANT TO ANSWER. SO YOU WILL SEE A POSITION, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, THAT IS JUST GOING TO BE DOING ENGAGE DENTON AND REQUEST BECAUSE IT'S TO THE POINT WHERE MONICA IS DOING MOST OF THIS AND IT'S IT'S SHE'S ABOUT WORN OUT.

SHE'S FRIED. YEAH, IT'S JUST A LOT.

BUT, BUT THE THING YOU HAVE TO CONSIDER IS AND THAT'S WHAT I SAY IS THAT'S OKAY BECAUSE WE'RE A GROWING CITY AND WE WANT TO BE RESPONSIVE.

IT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT GOING TO I MEAN, PUBLIC SAFETY IS I KNOW THE COUNCIL AND IT IS MY NUMBER ONE PRIORITY IS TO MAKE SURE THE CITY IS SAFE.

BUT WE ALSO HAVE TO MAKE SURE WE'RE COMMUNICATING EFFECTIVELY WITH OUR PUBLIC.

THAT SENDS IN THEIR ENGAGED DENTON REQUEST.

AND THEN WE ALSO HAVE TO MAKE SURE WE'RE ANSWERING THE COUNCIL REQUEST IN A TIMELY MANNER SO THEY CAN GET BACK TO THE CITIZENS AS WELL.

SO YOU WILL SEE A POSITION IN THERE FOR THAT VERY PURPOSE BECAUSE IT'S IT IS TAKING AWAY FROM THE TIME THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE WORKING ON THE THINGS.

WE MAKE IT WORK BECAUSE THAT'S JUST WHAT WE DO.

BUT YOU KNOW AND I'M CERTAINLY OPEN TO SUGGESTIONS FROM YOU ALL IF YOU DON'T READ THE FRIDAY REPORT, THAT'S NOT BENEFICIAL TO YOU, WHATEVER IT IS.

I KNOW. I WAS JUST GOING TO ASK THAT QUESTION.

YOU KNOW, STAFF STAFF PROVIDES ALL OF THIS STUFF AND AS IN-DEPTH AND AS MUCH AS THEY CAN AND THEY WANT TO GIVE YOU ALL OF THIS INFORMATION.

BUT IF YOU ARE, IN FACT NOT USING IT, YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT IT.

YOU OWE IT TO STAFF TO TELL THEM NOT TO TO SPEND THEIR TIME ON THESE RESOURCES.

NO SUPPORT OF THE FRIDAY REPORT.

IT'S GOOD. IT GIVES STAFF A POINT TO SAY, HEY, IT'S IN THAT ONE, GO FIND IT.

RIGHT? BUT I WILL SAY.

I WANT TO KNOW FROM THE CITY MANAGER OR FOR YOU IF YOU'VE TALKED TO STAFF TO UNDERSTAND WHAT ACTIVITIES ARE OR AN EXAMPLE OF ACTIVITIES THAT ARE THE MOST TIME CONSUMING. AND THAT'S NO DIFFERENT THAN WHAT I DO ON MY IPHONE.

I GET TO MY IPHONE AND IT SAYS, HEY, YOUR MEMORY IS FULL, YOUR CAT VIDEOS ARE TAKEN UP 98% OF THE.

YEAH, YEAH. SO THEN I GOT TO GO DELETE CAT VIDEOS, RIGHT? SO WHAT, WHAT IS, WHAT IS USING UP ALL THE BANDWIDTH, WHAT COUNCIL ACTIVITIES ARE THE MOST PROBLEMATIC FROM A BANDWIDTH CAPACITY.

BECAUSE I NEED TO KNOW THAT JUST SO I CAN IT INFORMS THE DISCUSSION TODAY.

BUT THEN ALSO IT INFORMS WHAT I WOULD ADVOCATE FOR FOR POLICY.

BECAUSE IF IT'S AS SIMPLE AS SELF CONTROL VERSUS ADDING ANOTHER FTE, SHAME ON ME IF I CAN'T AND IF I CAN'T EXECUTE MORE SELF CONTROL IN EXCHANGE FOR CREATING FTE, FOR BECAUSE WE HAVE A FIRE STATION NINE COMING ON BOARD, WE HAVE POLICE SUBSTATION THAT'S UP AND RUNNING.

WE HAVE A LOT OF THINGS GOING ON.

SO I JUST WANT TO UNDERSTAND WHAT'S WHAT'S USING UP ALL THE BANDWIDTH.

WHAT'S THE TIPPING POINT? SARA. I ME.

IT'S A. IT'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT.

IT'S JUST THE SAME AS ANY CITY THAT'S GOING THROUGH THE GROWING PAINS THAT WE'RE GOING THROUGH.

IT'S THAT IT'S OKAY.

IT IS. IT'S IT'S A CITY THAT IS PULLING 300 PERMITS.

500 PERMITS A MONTH.

3500 PERMITS PER MONTH.

IT IS THE FACT THAT WE'RE JUST CONSTANTLY, CONSTANTLY REVIEWING MATERIAL THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH COUNCIL.

THAT'S A GREAT THING THAT WE'RE BRINGING PEOPLE.

[03:45:02]

THAT'S ME. YEAH. WHAT IS GOING ON THERE? I JUST DROVE BY IT. IT IS OWNED BY TEX DOT.

AND WE ARE. AND WE ARE WORKING OUR TAILS OFF TO COME UP WITH AN AGREEMENT TO WHERE THEY PAY FOR IS GOING TO HELP US OUT OUR FRIENDS AT THE COUNTY.

BUT WE'RE GOING TO GET IT FIXED UP.

WE GOT TO PUT DOWN WE GOT TO DO THE UTILITIES FURTHER THERE LIKE THIS UNDER THE ROAD.

IT'S LIKE BAD. SO WE'VE GOT TO PUT THE UTILITIES WAY DOWN BELOW, RESURFACE IT, IT'LL BE BEAUTIFUL, BUT IT'S GOING TO TAKE SOME TIME.

WE HAVE TO DO AN AGREEMENT WITH THE COUNTY AND WITH TEXDOT.

THEN WHAT? WE'RE GOING TO OWN THEM.

WE'RE GOING TO OWN ELM AND LUCAS, AND WE'LL WE WE'LL MAKE SURE TAKEN CARE OF.

IT'S NOT A PRIORITY FOR TEX DOT.

I THINK YOU ALL KNOW THAT. AND THAT'S WHAT'S HAPPENING.

AND WE'VE BEEN OUT THERE PATCHING HOLES AND CALLING THEM AND ALL SORTS OF THINGS, BUT.

SO IT'S NOT SO BAD. WE HAVE A STANDARD CANNED ANSWER NOW THAT WE CAN JUST SEND OUT.

BUT IT'S A GROWING CITY.

SO THAT'S PART OF THE PROBLEM.

MAYOR IT'S A GROWING CITY.

A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T KNOW WHERE OUR BOUNDARIES END.

THEY WANT TO KNOW WHY SOMETHING'S HAPPENING THAT'S IN THE COUNTY.

BUT WE ARE AT A POINT WHERE.

ONE. I SAID THIS TO ALL OF YOU.

I'VE GOT TO HAVE I'VE GOT TO HAVE BETTER.

WE'VE GOT TO DO A BETTER JOB OF EXTERNAL COMMUNICATIONS.

THE FACTS, THE FAQS.

I LIKE YOUR IDEA OF THE RED BUTTON.

IF YOU WANT TO KNOW SOMETHING, HERE'S THE FACTS AND WHAT WE'RE DOING.

I THINK THAT WILL HELP COUNSEL AS WELL.

BUT I THINK THE OTHER THING IS FOR US, IT'S JUST THE MAGNITUDE OF INFORMATION THAT WE'VE GOT.

YOU KNOW, THE QUESTIONS AND I DON'T BLAME THE COUNCIL MEMBER FOR ASKING THE QUESTION.

THAT'S OUR JOB, IS TO ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS.

I THINK IT'S JUST WE MAY BE AT THE TIPPING POINT RIGHT NOW WHERE THERE'S SO MANY THINGS HAPPENING AND WE'RE SO BUSY.

I MEAN, FRANK, CASSIE NEED TO CHIME IN.

IT'S JUST THERE'S NO DOWNTIME FOR US.

WE USED TO BE THAT THE SUMMER MIGHT BE A DOWNTIME FOR US.

WE COULD PICK UP. WE ABSOLUTELY HAVE NO TIME BETWEEN US TO SIT DOWN AND STRATEGICALLY PLAN.

WE DON'T. WE'RE TOO BUSY.

WE'RE TOO BUSY ANSWERING QUESTIONS.

WE'RE TOO BUSY. OH, WE GOT A BAR MEETING.

JUST TO GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE, WE GOT THIS TODAY, YESTERDAY AND TODAY, MONDAY, WE HAVE BOND COMMITTEE THAT GOES TILL ABOUT 830 OR 9:00 TUESDAY.

WE HAVE A COUNCIL MEETING.

SO WEDNESDAY WE'RE ALL GOING TO BE DEAD.

I MEAN, I JUST BE ZOMBIES BY THE END, BUT IT'S JUST IT'S JUST RIGHT.

IT'S JUST A GRIND. AND I LOVE WHAT I DO.

I LOVE THE JOB. I MEAN, IT'S NOT THAT'S WHAT WE GET PAID FOR.

I'M NOT. I DON'T WANT ANYBODY TO LEAVE HERE THINKING, GOD, THAT'S ALL SHE DOES COMPLAIN ABOUT THAT.

I LOVE WHAT I DO. I LOVE THE JOB.

BUT I ALSO KNOW I RELY ON THEM A LOT.

AND IT IS A GRIND BECAUSE IT'S JUST A CONSTANT GRIND.

AND AND PEOPLE SAY, WELL, WHY DO YOU ANSWER YOUR PHONE ON THE WEEKEND OR WHY DO YOU ANSWER THE TEXT? I SAID, BECAUSE I GET PAID TO WORK.

THERE IT IS 24 SEVEN AND SOME OF IT'S NOT GOOD NEWS.

I HEAR IT IS BECAUSE IF IF IT'S AN EMERGENCY OR THERE'S SOMETHING HAPPENS, YOU AND I DISAGREE ON THAT.

YOU ANSWER THE PHONE WHEN IT'S NOT ON THE WORKS.

WELL, I KNOW, BUT BUT I THINK IT COULD BE THEIR CALLING ME THAT I WON A LOTTERY.

YEAH, YOU DON'T KNOW. I'LL MAKE A TWO MINUTE PITCH THAT YOU DON'T ANSWER THE PHONE.

IT'S NOT. I MEAN, I JUST.

THE BOTTOM LINE IS, WE'RE A GROWING CITY.

THERE'S PROBABLY WE'RE AT THE WE'RE AT THE TIPPING POINT RIGHT NOW WHERE WE'RE NOT ABLE TO LITERALLY TAKE OUR TIME TO PLAN AHEAD, WHICH IS REACTIVE AND NOT PROACTIVE.

AND AND THAT'S WHERE EVEN THE COUNCIL, I THINK, IS REACTIVE, NOT PROACTIVE.

AND THAT'S WHERE I WANT US TO BE, IS WHERE WE CAN ALL YOU GET THROUGH THIS, YOU KNOW, STORMING, FORMING, NORMING THAT, THEN YOU ALL DECIDE THIS IS HOW WE'RE GOING TO WORK.

THEN WE REALLY WILL HAVE THOSE MEETINGS AND HAVE THOSE PLANNING SESSIONS.

AND I WAS GOING TO SAY TO COUNCIL MEMBER MCGEE, WE HAVE HAD THOSE.

THOSE WERE QUARTERLY MEETINGS, BUT THEY WERE QUARTERLY MEETINGS WITH THE PLANNING AND ZONING ONES COMING UP AND QUARTERLY MEETINGS WITH THE SCHOOL DISTRICT.

AND WE'VE HAD BOTH OF THOSE.

WE'VE HAD ANOTHER ONE SCHEDULED COMING UP THE NEXT MONTH.

WHAT ABOUT OUR.

WELL, WE CAN DO THAT, TOO.

JUST I'M JUST GOING TO TELL YOU, THOUGH, GIVE US A BREAK TILL ABOUT.

OCTOBER BECAUSE WE'RE SO THERE'S WE GOT TO GET THROUGH THE BOND.

WE GOT TO GET THROUGH THE BUDGET AND WE GOT TO GET THROUGH THIS JOINT MEETING AND THEN WE'LL SCHEDULE ANOTHER ONE OF THESE.

ACTUALLY, I AGREE WITH RON WHEN HE SAID WE SHOULD BE DOING THIS TWO TIMES A YEAR, JUST THIS KIND OF THING, DOING PRIORITY SETTING AND LOOKING AT HOW, OKAY, THAT THAT PRIORITY DOESN'T MEAN AS MUCH ANYMORE OR WHATEVER IT MEANS, BUT IT WON'T BE AS BAD IF WE DON'T HAVE IF WE'RE NOT PULLING AROUND CHASING OUR TAILS SO MUCH.

BUT JUST SO YOU KNOW, JUST TO GET READY FOR THIS.

IT WAS CRAZY BECAUSE WE WERE TOO BUSY TRYING TO GET THE CREDIT REPORT OUT AND TRYING TO GET THE QUESTIONS ANSWERED FOR THE BOND.

AND THANK GOD FOR TRACY THIS TIME BECAUSE CHRIS WAS ON VACATION.

IT'S JUST BEEN, YOU KNOW, KIND OF CRAZY.

BUT THAT'S OUR CRAZY AND WE WE DEAL WITH IT.

SO MY TAKEAWAY FROM THAT, THANK YOU FOR THE ANSWER.

MY TAKEAWAY FROM THAT IS I BELIEVE VISIBILITY IS NEEDED, RIGHT? THAT'S WHAT I WHAT I WHAT I HEARD HER SAY.

WE HAVE AN ORG CHART BUT AND SO I ENVISIONED SOMETHING SIMILAR TO THAT AND THEN WITH THE MEASUREMENT ON IT SO IT'S HERE'S ALL THE BOARDS, COMMISSIONS, HERE'S ALL THE VARIOUS

[03:50:04]

HERE'S THE ENTITIES ON THERE.

SO THEN NOW YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT 200 ENTITIES AND YOU'RE SAYING ONE QUESTION THAT TAKES TWO MINUTES FROM ALL OF THESE ENTITIES NETS OUT, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER, A LOT OF HOURS.

RIGHT. AND SO IT GIVES A VISIBILITY, GIVES A REMINDER, GIVES US A PEEK INTO THE WORLD BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT IT'S SELF CONTROL TO SAY.

I'M NOT CALLING ON.

I DON'T CALL HER. I MEAN, I'M PROBABLY THE WORST MAYOR GOING BECAUSE MY OTHER MAYORS TALK TO THEIR CITY MANAGER ALL THE TIME AND DO ALL THESE THINGS.

I MEAN, NOW I'LL LOAD UP.

RIGHT. BUT I DON'T I DON'T NEED TO.

I MEAN, I TRUST HER, HER MANAGEMENT STYLE.

I'D RATHER HAVE HER HAVING THAT TIME INSTEAD OF TALKING TO ME ABOUT THE STATE OF THE UNION.

I'D LOVE TO HAVE HER HAVE THAT TIME TO TALK AND TRAIN OUR LATEST AND GREATEST ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER SO THEY CAN GO ON AND BE CITY MANAGERS AND AND CHANGE THE WORLD AND DO ALL THOSE GREAT THINGS. RIGHT. SO SO I THINK IT'S JUST A VISIBILITY IN THAT AND WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE, HOW THAT'S CAPTURED.

BUT I'LL ALSO SAY IT GOES BACK TO WHAT WHAT WE ALL KNOW.

AND IF WE DON'T ALL KNOW IT, THEN THEN I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE TO DO.

BUT IT'S HARD TO HIRE HERE.

SO YOU CAN'T JUST SIMPLY SAY WE'RE GOING TO BRING IN MORE PEOPLE BECAUSE THE TALENT WE'RE GETTING IS LESS THAN GREAT, BECAUSE OUR REPUTATION IS LESS THAN GREAT.

SO IT ALL AGAIN, IT'S ALL GOES TOGETHER.

SO WE CAN'T JUST SIMPLY SAY, HEY, WE'RE GOING TO GO FIND SOMEONE BECAUSE THE TALENT POOL WE HAVE IS NOT GOING TO BE AS GOOD AS IT COULD BE IF WE HAD A BETTER REPUTATION.

RIGHT. IT'S NO DIFFERENT THAN HER PEERS.

HER PEERS ARE TALKING TO THEIR EMPLOYEES.

WELL, IF YOU GO OVER THERE, YOU KNOW, AND SO THAT THAT IS OUT THERE AND WE HAVE TO BEAT THAT BACK.

AND AND AGAIN, THAT TAKES EVERYONE TO EMBRACE THAT CHALLENGE OR NOT.

IT'S THEIR PREROGATIVE.

BUT I'LL JUST CONCLUDE WITH THIS.

WHEN WE HAD A STAFFING ISSUE WITH OPEN RECORDS REQUESTS BECAUSE THOSE HAVE GONE THROUGH THE ROOF, WE AUTOMATED IT, RIGHT? SO NOW WE'RE GETTING AWAY FROM THAT PERSONAL TOUCH.

AND SO YOU'RE GOING TO GET TO A TIPPING POINT WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO SAY, HEY, I ENJOYED IT, THE PERSONAL TOUCH.

I ENJOY WHAT WE HAVE, BUT NOW IT'S GOING TO GO AWAY.

AND THAT'S THAT'S NOT THE CITY UNIQUE.

IT'S GO TO A KROGER AND FIND A PERSON CHECKING OUT SOMEONE PERSON, RIGHT? THEY ENHANCED THEIR SELF-CHECKOUT CONVEYOR BELT AND, YOU KNOW, DO ALL THIS YOURSELF, YOU KNOW, AND SO THAT'S WHERE THE AUTOMATION IS, WHERE WE'RE GOING.

AND WE'RE TRYING TO HANG ON TO THE LAST BASTIONS OF A CITY THAT'S, YOU KNOW, HEY, WALK IN AND TALK TO US.

BUT IF WE CAN'T GET IT UNDER CONTROL TO A DEGREE THAT WE CAN AND THEN SOME OF US JUST GROWTH AND YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET ANY CONTROL BUT SUCH THAT WE CAN AFFECT THAT AND DELAY THAT INEVITABILITY, THAT'D BE FANTASTIC.

WE ALSO LOVE TO SAY THIS.

I DON'T USE THAT SELF-CHECKOUT.

THEN THE LIGHT COMES ON.

YES. AND I CAN'T DO ANYTHING.

I'M SCANNING AND. WAIT A MINUTE ON SOMEBODY COME HELP US.

RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT.

WELL, THAT'S RIGHT.

AND THE PERSON BEHIND ME TO BUY THE WINE FOR ME AND THEN I WE LIVE WE LIVE IN THE WORLD.

THE GOOGLE THAT STOP WORLD.

RIGHT. AND SO THE MORE INFORMATION THAT WE AS A CITY ARE PRODUCING AND PUTTING OUT THERE, THE MORE LIKELY FOLKS ARE TO FIND IT ON THEIR OWN.

BECAUSE I CAN GUARANTEE YOU TO GET YOUR PHONE NUMBER.

THEY PROBABLY GOOGLED IT IF THEY DIDN'T ALREADY HAVE IT.

OH YEAH, RIGHT. SO IF THEY ALSO WENT IN THERE AND GOOGLED DENTON TRASH COLLECTION AND IT POPPED UP FOR THEM, GOOD INFORMATION OR A LINK TO WHERE THEY COULD REQUEST SERVICE, THAT'S CUSTOMER SERVICE TO THEM.

THAT'S A STEP THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO TAKE TO COME TO YOU.

AND THEN YOU HAD TO GO TO STAFF AND THEN STAFF HAD TO GO HERE AND STAFF HAD TO GO THERE.

SO AS A AS A COUNCIL LEVEL DECISION OR PRIORITY, I MEAN, YOU CAN SET THAT.

YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE EVERYTHING THAT YOU EVER DID PUBLIC RECORD TO THE DEGREE POSSIBLE.

AND WE DO, DON'T WE? MACK RIGHT.

BUT WE ALSO HAVE TO BE STRATEGIC ABOUT THE WAY WE PUT IT OUT THERE, BECAUSE IF NOT, IT'S JUST NOISE.

IF PEOPLE DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING FOR AND THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO FIND IT.

SO SO THERE IS THERE'S THIS BALANCE.

BUT I THINK THIS DISCUSSION ABOUT HOW MUCH STAFF TIME IS BEING USED AND AND AND WHAT THAT'S TAKING AWAY FROM IS VERY IMPORTANT BECAUSE YOU, AS THE COUNCIL MEMBER MAY SAY, THIS IS YOUR QUESTION.

WHY DID Y'ALL DO YOUR OWN TRASH COLLECTION? YEAH. OKAY, GOOD. BEFORE BEFORE I.

I FIGURED YOU. AND BUT BEFORE USING COUNCIL MEMBER SAYS, WHY DIDN'T THE TRASH GET PICKED UP ON THIS STREET? THAT'S NOT A SIMPLE ANSWER.

IF THE CITY MANAGER RECEIVES THAT, SHE'S GOING TO GO TO THE APPROPRIATE EITHER DEPARTMENT HEAD OR ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER OR DIVISION LEADER OR WHATEVER IT IS.

THAT PERSON'S GOING TO GO DO ALL KINDS OF RESEARCH TO FIGURE OUT.

THEN THEY'RE GOING TO GO ANOTHER STEP BECAUSE THEY WANT TO GIVE YOU ALL THE CONTEXT RELATED TO IT.

THAT SAID, WE HAVE THESE TRUCKS THAT WERE OUT OF SERVICE ON THIS DAY OR THIS WAS DELAYED BY THIS, OR WE HAD THIS MANY INSTANCES BECAUSE OF WHATEVER THIS GUY'S PROBLEM WAS.

THEY'RE GOING TO GO THAT FAR DOWN.

[03:55:02]

BUT THAT'S THE LEVEL OF SERVICE THAT THEY WANT TO PROVIDE TO YOU.

SO IT COULD BE AS SIMPLE QUESTION LIKE WHY DID THE TRASH GET MISSED ON THIS STREET? BUT THAT'S WHERE THE TWO HOURS COMES FROM.

THEY WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU HAVE ALL THE CONTEXT BECAUSE THEY KNOW AS SOON AS YOU GO BACK AND SAY, OH, WELL, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE TWO HOURS DELAYED, THE NEXT THING THAT COMES BACK IS THEY'RE TWO HOURS DELAYED EVERY WEEK AND THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO BE CAUGHT IN THIS SITUATION WHERE YOU CAN'T EXPLAIN WHY IT'S TWO HOURS TOO LATE EVERY WEEK.

DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? AND SO I THINK JUST HAVING A RECOGNITION OF THAT AS A COUNCIL PERSON AND USING THAT KIND OF AS A LITTLE BIT OF AN UNDERSTANDING OR LITMUS TEST AND THE TYPES OF QUESTIONS THAT YOU MIGHT ASK CAN HELP STRUCTURE YOUR QUESTIONS IN A WAY THAT'S MORE MANAGEABLE FOR STAFF.

PLEASE. BUT I WILL SAY I AM CURIOUS AND I'D LOVE TO HEAR FROM THE CITY MANAGER ON THIS.

I DON'T THINK THAT'S THOSE QUESTIONS AREN'T THE ISSUE BECAUSE THOSE ARE OKAY.

WELL, NO, NO, NO. BUT BUT I SAY FUNCTIONAL QUESTIONS.

AS A CITY FUNCTIONS, WE HAVE SYSTEMS IN PLACE.

EXAMPLE I HAD SOMEONE REACH OUT TO ME AND IT WAS NOT TRUE.

THEY SAID, HEY, MY CAR WAS TOWED, THIS, THAT OR THE OTHER.

AND AND IT TURNS OUT THE KID DIDN'T WANT TO GET IN TROUBLE IN LIFE.

OH, YEAH. AND BUT BUT IMMEDIATELY IN OUR SYSTEMS AND OUR PROGRAMS, THEY TAKE PICTURES.

SO, FOR EXAMPLE, HEY, YOU DIDN'T YOU DIDN'T DUMP MY DUMPSTER.

IT WAS READY. THE DOORS WERE OPEN.

THERE WAS NOTHING IN FRONT OF IT.

STAFF IMMEDIATELY IS ABLE TO SEND ME A PICTURE BECAUSE THEY TAKE A PICTURE ANYWAY.

RIGHT? SO THOSE FUNCTIONS OF THE CITY ARE NOT.

I COULD BE WRONG, BUT MY USER EXPERIENCE, THAT'S NOT THE ISSUE.

THE ISSUE IS STEVE ON SMITH STREET WANTS TO DO SOMETHING TRULY UNIQUE OR ADVOCATE FOR THEIR ISSUE.

NOW, THERE'S WE'RE NOT PREPARED TO TALK.

WE DON'T HAVE A PICTURE OF THAT, RIGHT? SO NOW WE'VE GOT TO GO RESEARCH AND DO A WHOLE BUNCH OF MACHINATIONS.

AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FUNCTION OF THE ENTIRE CITY OR A FUNCTION OF THE ENTIRE CITY.

IT'S A UNIQUE STEVE ISSUE, THAT IS.

AND AGAIN, I'M JUST FACING THAT.

OKAY. AND SO, I MEAN, DEPENDING ON WHAT THE ISSUE IS, I USED A SUPER SIMPLIFIED EXAMPLE, BUT I CAN TELL YOU I WAS WATCHING THE HEADS NOD IN THE ROOM ABOUT, YEAH, WE WE DO.

WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE INFORMATION WE GIVE YOU IS ACCURATE AND THAT WE'VE GIVEN YOU WHATEVER CONTEXT WE NEED.

BUT THEN IT'S ALSO THOSE ONE OFFS THAT AREN'T NECESSARILY CITY POLICIES.

BUT WHY DON'T WE DO THIS? DID WE DO THIS TEN YEARS AGO? LIKE, WHAT ARE THOSE THINGS THAT REQUIRE ALL OF THIS RESEARCH? I WOULD SAY TO COUNCIL, I MEAN, ANYTHING THAT'S AN EMERGENCY OR IS THREAT TO PUBLIC SAFETY, YOU CAN PICK UP THE PHONE AND CALL ME BECAUSE I DO NOT EVER WANT THAT TO BE A PROBLEM. THAT'S THAT IS A BIG NO FOR ME.

BUT AND I WILL SAY, MEMBER DAVIS WAS PRETTY GOOD AT THAT WHEN SOMEBODY KNOCKED A STOP SIGN DOWN AND PEOPLE WERE THERE WAS ALMOST NEAR ACCIDENTS AND IT WAS TERRIBLE.

BUT THAT'S WHERE, YOU KNOW, OUR WATER'S RUNNING.

IT'S WASTING WATER.

AND THOSE KINDS OF THINGS ARE THERE'S A BLIND SPOT IN A ROAD WHERE THE BUSHES GROWING OUT, THOSE ARE THINGS THAT WE WANT TO ADDRESS IMMEDIATELY BECAUSE OF PUBLIC SAFETY.

BUT WHEN IT'S, HEY, WE NEED A STOPLIGHT HERE OR WE NEED A FOUR WAY CROSS HERE, OR WHY DON'T WE PUT A ROUNDABOUT HERE THAT IS A BIGGER COUNCIL DISCUSSION. THAT IS NOT ME SAYING, BECKY, GO PUT A ROUNDABOUT OUT THERE.

GO PUT FOUR STOP SIGNS OUT THERE.

MAKE IT HAPPEN. WHEN IT COMES TO PUBLIC SAFETY NOW, LIKE WHAT HAPPENED? Y'ALL RIGHT HERE.

Y'ALL REMEMBER WE TOOK DOWN THE SIGNS RIGHT HERE AND THERE STARTED TO BE PROBLEMS. WE GOT RIGHT BACK OUT THERE AND PUT THOSE FLASHING STOP SIGNS.

THOSE ARE THOSE ARE PUBLIC SAFETY EMERGENCIES.

BUT WHEN IT COMES TO THOSE QUESTIONS OF WHY AREN'T YOU DOING IT THIS WHY DON'T YOU PUT A LIGHT OUT HERE? WHY DON'T YOU DO THIS HERE? WHY DON'T YOU DO THIS TRAFFIC STUDY HERE? THAT'S GREAT. BUT I BET EVERY ONE OF OUR COUNCIL MEMBERS CAN SAY THEY HAVE AN ERROR THEY'D LIKE TO HAVE A TRAFFIC STUDY IN.

SURE. AND IT REQUIRES ADDITIONAL FUNDING.

ADDITIONAL FUNDING. ADDITIONAL STAFF TIME.

YOU REMEMBER, BECKY'S RUNNING THE CAPITAL PROGRAM, BUT SHE YOU KNOW, ALL THAT OTHER STUFF FALLS UNDER HER, AT LEAST FOR NOW.

WE'RE MOVING OUT TO FORM TRANSPORTATION UNIT BECAUSE MULTIMODAL AND ALL THAT IS SO IMPORTANT TO US.

AND WE KNOW THAT'S IMPORTANT TO YOU ALL WITH SIDEWALKS, BIKE, BIKE PATHS, BIKE LANES.

BUT IT'S WE'RE HAVING TO SEPARATE SOME DUTIES JUST BECAUSE IT'S BECOMING OVERWHELMED WITH WITH STAFF.

SO WHAT I'M HEARING THE CITY MANAGER SAY IS A QUESTION THAT I PERSONALLY HAVE ON THE SUBJECT OF BULLET POINT NUMBER TWO.

WHAT I'M HEARING YOU SAY IS THAT YOU WANT US TO STAY OUT OF THE WEEDS, RIGHT? BUT YES.

YEAH. I FEEL LIKE I FEEL LIKE THERE ARE THOSE OF MY COLLEAGUES AND EVEN MYSELF ON SOME ISSUES WHO WANT TO GET IN THE WEEDS. SO WHAT'S THE BALANCE THERE? WELL, I MEAN, OKAY, SO THE BALANCE IS WHAT I WHAT I USUALLY TRY TO SAY IS Y'ALL ARE TOO FAR DOWN IN THE WEEDS.

YOU KNOW, YOU AND I HAD THIS DISCUSSION THE OTHER DAY AND I SAID, HEY, YOU GOT TO BE WAY UP HERE AT 30,000 FOOT LEVEL.

REMEMBER WHEN I SAID THAT TO YOU IN THE HALLWAY? IF YOU ALLOW ME TO SAY THAT TO YOU, I WILL.

I KNOW WE DO HAVE GOOD DISCUSSIONS, DISAGREEMENTS.

THAT'S THE WAY IT SHOULD BE AND IT SHOULD BE RESPECTFUL AND EVERYTHING.

BUT THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME TIMES THAT YOU JUST HAVE TO ASK THAT QUESTION BECAUSE IT'S IT IS JUST A QUESTION THAT NEEDS TO BE ASKED.

[04:00:04]

BUT BUT I THINK ONCE YOU GET USED TO IT AND SAYING THAT'S OPERATIONAL, YOU HAVE TO KIND OF THINK OF IT AS YOU GUYS ARE THE BOARD OF YOU'RE THE EXECUTIVE BOARD AND YOU'RE THE ONE WHO SETS THE POLICY OF WHAT WE WORK WITHIN.

MY JOB IS THE THE THE PERSON THAT RUNS THE OPERATIONAL STUFF.

SO, OKAY, THE WEEDS ARE TOO HIGH.

YEAH, THEY'RE TOO HIGH BECAUSE WE HAVE A SIGN THAT SAYS NO MOW AREA BECAUSE IT'S, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GROWING THE BLUEBONNETS AND OTHER THINGS.

THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT IT'S HELPING TO EDUCATE.

THE PROBLEM IS IT'S JUST EDUCATING AND REEDUCATING AND REEDUCATING AND REEDUCATING.

AND I THINK SOMETIMES WE FEEL LIKE IT'S LIKE IT NEVER ENDS.

IT IS, NO, I'M GOING TO PUSH BACK SUPER HARD AND BUT IN AGREEMENT AND IT'S GOING TO SOUND WEIRD.

IT NEVER ENDS.

YEAH, IT NEVER ENDS BECAUSE WE HAVE A SOCIETY AND IT'S GOING TO BE IT WAS, IT WAS WHOEVER BEFORE YOU.

IF TODD BEFORE YOU AND MARIO BEFORE THAT, IT NEVER ENDS BECAUSE WE HAVE A SOCIETY AND PEOPLE KEEP HAVING THE SAME QUESTIONS AND THEY DON'T KNOW THEY HAVE THAT QUESTION UNTIL THEY HAVE THAT QUESTION.

AND I AND I HATE TO ALWAYS BRING UP MY EXPERIENCES AS A PROFESSOR, BUT EVERY YEAR I HAD A NEW FRESHMAN CLASS IN BIOLOGY WHO DIDN'T KNOW BIOLOGY.

ALL RIGHT? AND EVERY YEAR I HAD TO RETEACH THEM.

AND AND I'M BEING VERY VOCIFEROUS RIGHT NOW BECAUSE IT IS NEVER ENDING.

AND YOU JUST HAVE TO OWN THAT.

THAT IS PART OF THE JOB.

IF YOU ARE YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE PEOPLE THAT DON'T UNDERSTAND AND YOU CAN MITIGATE THAT BY HAVING THESE FAQS AND THESE OTHER STANDING COMPONENTS THAT ALLOW YOU TO QUICKLY RESPOND TO HAVE THESE 311 SYSTEMS AND THESE OTHER SORT OF HIERARCHICAL RESPONSE CHARTS AND ALL KINDS OF THINGS THAT ALLOW YOU TO EFFICIENTLY RESPOND.

BUT KNOW THAT.

YOU JUST HAVE TO.

WE HAVE NO PROBLEM. THAT'S NOT IT'S NOT THAT I HAVE NO PROBLEM ANSWERING QUESTIONS.

I THINK I REALLY BELIEVE IT'S SOMETIMES I'M GOING TO BE HONEST.

SOMETIMES YOU ALL GET INTO THE OPERATIONAL ISSUES.

THAT'S NOT YOUR ROLE.

YOUR ROLE IS NOT TO OPERATE THE SYSTEM.

YOUR YOUR JOB IS TO CREATE THE FUTURE.

AND I'LL TELL YOU, I HAVE A CHART AS CASSIE SEEN IT.

FRANK SEEN IT. RYAN SEEN IT WHERE THE PERSON SHOULD SPEND THEIR TIME FROM AN EXECUTIVE STANDPOINT TO MIDDLE MANAGERS TO FRONTLINE AN EXECUTIVE PERSON LIKE ME.

MY FULL TIME JOB SHOULD BE TO CREATE THE FUTURE.

NOTHING ELSE. MIDDLE MANAGERS SHOULD BE HALF TIME, CREATE THE FUTURE HALF TIME.

OPERATE THE SYSTEM.

AND FRONTLINE STAFF JOB IS TO OPERATE THE SYSTEM.

THAT'S IT. YOUR JOB IS TO CREATE THE FUTURE WITH ME, NOT TO OPERATE THE SYSTEM.

WHEN YOU GET INTO OPERATIONS, THAT'S WHEN THE PROBLEMS. THAT'S WHEN THE PROBLEMS COME OUT.

SO THIS IS HARD.

AND I HAD TO SIT DOWN WITH OUR DEPARTMENT HEADS AND TALK TO THEM ABOUT THAT BECAUSE SOME OF THEM WERE DOWN INTO OPERATIONS, DRIVING THEIR STAFF CRAZY BECAUSE THEY WERE THEY WERE TELLING THEM, HOW DID YOU DO THIS? DID YOU DO THIS? DID YOU TAKE CARE OF THIS? DID YOU TAKE CARE OF THIS CREATES TWO PROBLEMS. ONE IS THEY FEEL LIKE THE SUPERVISORS NOT TRUSTING THEM.

THE OTHER ONE IS THE SUPERVISOR IS DRIVING THEM NUTS.

AND SO IT'S THE SAME KIND OF SITUATION IS IT'S A BALANCE.

AND THERE'S GOING TO BE TIMES WHEN, YES, YOU NEED TO ASK THE QUESTION.

IT DOESN'T. AND WE'RE GOING TO ANSWER THE QUESTION.

I'M NOT GOING TO SIT THERE AND SAY I'M NOT ANSWERING THAT QUESTION BECAUSE IT'S IN THE WEEDS.

I MAY SAY TO YOU, YOU'RE GOING TO GIVE US SOME TIME ON THIS ONE, BECAUSE THIS ONE IS WAY DOWN IN HERE AND WE'VE GOT ALL THESE OTHER THINGS WE'RE WORKING ON.

AND USUALLY I WILL.

DO YOU ALL REMEMBER WHAT I SAID TO YOU? WE WERE SHORT STAFFED.

BECKY WAS HAD SOME STUFF GOING IN THE HOSPITAL.

I DON'T THINK COUNCIL MEMBER MELTZER WAS ON THE COUNCIL THEN, BUT I SAID, PLEASE GIVE SOME GRACE BECAUSE WE NEED A MONTH OF GRACE, BECAUSE WE'RE VERY WE'RE VERY SHORT STAFFED.

DO YOU REMEMBER THAT? YEAH.

IT'S NOT BEEN THAT LONG AGO.

YEAH. SO, YOU KNOW, I'M GOING TO ASK YOU WHEN THAT HAPPENS.

AND WE'RE THAT WAY RIGHT NOW IN FINANCE.

THAT'S WHY WE'RE BEHIND IN THE BUDGETING AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

BUT IT'S, IT IS JUST THERE'S A LOT GOING ON THAT I DON'T I DON'T TELL YOU ABOUT BECAUSE IT'S JUST OUR JOB.

BUT THERE IS A LOT GOING ON TRYING TO HIRE RECRUIT SARA KUGLER IS OUT ON MATERNITY LEAVE.

WE LOST OUR ASSISTANT FINANCE DIRECTOR.

WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO HIRE A BUDGET MANAGER.

WE JUST ARE SHORT. WE HAVE A CITY SECRETARY VACANCY WE'RE GOING THROUGH.

OUR SIGNS ARE EVERYWHERE, ARE FINE.

SO IT'S A LOT.

TRACK A FEW ISSUES.

FIRST OF ALL, IF THERE ARE REALLY HELPFUL WAYS TO AUTOMATE.

THINGS, I'D BE ALL FOR THAT IF PEOPLE CAN GET THE ANSWERS THAT GET THEM.

YOU KNOW, I'M PERFECTLY WILLING TO WORK THE WAY HE WANTS TO WORK.

BUT IF PEOPLE COME, PEOPLE KNOW OUR NAMES.

I MEAN, WE SPEND SO MUCH TIME ADVERTISING NAMES, THEY END UP KNOWING IT.

SO THEY'RE BRINGING ISSUES.

I'LL TELL YOU, I DON'T SAY I DON'T TAKE THEM AS GOSPEL WHEN THEY BRING ISSUES.

[04:05:02]

AND USUALLY MY GENERIC QUESTION IS, HOW WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO RESPOND? AND I WILL TAKE WHATEVER YOU GIVE ME.

I REALLY WILL. AND AND AND ALSO, IF THE RESPONSE THAT I TEND TO SEE IS OVERWHELMINGLY ABOVE AND BEYOND.

AND I THINK THAT THAT MAY BE I MEAN, I, I SUPER APPRECIATE THE DESIRE TO IMPRESS AND PERFORM, YOU KNOW, BUT I DON'T ACTUALLY EXPECT THAT.

AND WHEN WHEN YOU SAY OR YOU SAY RESPONSE WILL COME TO FUTURE A REPORT, YOU NEVER HEAR ME SAY WHICH ONE. NO. RIGHT.

YOU KNOW, LIKE I GET IT.

AND WHEN IT COMES, IT COMES.

AND I'LL KEEP MY EYES OPEN AND INCIDENTALLY, REPORT INCREDIBLY GOOD PRODUCT, VERY USEFUL.

AND I'M TRAINED. I LOOK IN THE FRAMEWORK, THERE'S THE ANSWER.

THE THING I ASKED SO, WELL, HOW DO YOU PARDON ME? JUST. JUST. JUST SO YOU TELL ME YOU WANT US TO WORK IN A DIFFERENT WAY.

LET ME TRY TO DO THAT. BUT BUT BUT NOT TO SAY PEOPLE CAN'T COME TO US WITH ISSUES.

WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO? NO, AND I'M NOT I'M NOT SAYING THAT.

AND THAT'S NOT WHAT I'M SAYING.

I THINK WHEN WE GIVE YOU MORE INFORMATION, IT'S BECAUSE WE ANTICIPATE THE NEXT QUESTION.

YOU KNOW, IF WE SAY.

WE'RE GOING TO BE STRIPING THAT ROAD IN IN THE FALL.

THE NEXT QUESTION IS WHEN IN THE FALL.

AND IS IT GOING TO BE THE WHOLE ROAD OR JUST PART OF THE ROAD? IT'S GOING TO BE THE WHOLE BODY BRAY.

OR IS IT GOING TO BE. WHAT ABOUT MCKINNEY? WHEN ARE WE GOING TO PUT SIDEWALKS ON MCKINNEY? WELL, THE PROBLEM IS THERE'S NO ROOM ON MCKINNEY.

AND WE'VE GOT AN ISSUE THERE WHERE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE SOME EASEMENTS BEFORE WE CAN PUT SIDEWALKS ON THERE, BECAUSE IT'S SUCH A THIN ROAD.

IT NEEDS IT BAD. I'M WITH YOU 100%.

THERE'S THINGS LIKE THAT. WE KNOW IF THIS, THEN THIS.

WE KNOW WHAT'S COMING.

SO IT'S LIKE GIVE A COMPREHENSIVE RESPONSE BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO GET IT RIGHT BACK.

AND IT'S NOT THE COUNCIL MEMBER ASKING, IT'S THE PUBLIC ASKING.

I GET IT. WE JUST HAVE TO KEEP DOING IT.

THE MAYOR ASKED THE QUESTION, AND THE ANSWER IS WE'RE AT TIPPING POINT.

WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO ADD A PERSON TO HELP US OUT.

DO 311.

AND BECAUSE WHAT I'M TRYING TO SET UP IS FOR US TO COMMUNICATE BETTER, WE HAVE NOT WE HAVE NOT BEEN OUTWARDLY FOCUSED ON OUR COMMUNICATIONS.

IT'S JUST NOT THAT'S NOT THE CASE.

AND SO WHAT I'M TRYING TO DO IS HAVE SOMEONE IN THERE WITH THE EXPERTISE THAT WE HAVE WHERE WE DO FAQS, THEY'RE LISTED, THERE'S A PLACE YOU CLICK ON IT AND IT'S LIKE EVERYTHING WE DO THAT PROBABLY COULD BE OF ANY QUESTION IS GOING TO BE A FACT SHEET OF WHERE WE ARE, WHAT WE'RE DOING AND LOCUST LOCUST.

MCKINNEY ANYTHING LIKE THAT WOULD BE WHERE YOU CAN JUST PUSH A BUTTON AND IT'LL BE THERE, A FACT SHEET ON IT WHEN IT STARTED, WHEN IT ENDS, HOW MUCH MONEY IS BEING SPENT, WHERE ARE THE CURRENT STATUS? IS THE OTHER SIDE IS WE'RE GOING TO START PUSHING OUT MORE INFORMATION WITH THE MEDIA.

WE'RE GOING TO START BEING MORE PROACTIVE BECAUSE I BELIEVE THAT WE COULD HAVE BEEN I BELIEVE WE COULD HAVE BEEN MORE PROACTIVE DURING THE WHOLE ISSUE RELATED TO PROP B TO SAY WHAT WE WERE DOING, HOW WE WERE HANDLING IT.

SAME THING WITH ANY OF OUR UNDERSERVED POPULATION.

WHAT ARE WE DOING RIGHT NOW TO HELP PEOPLE? WHAT WE CARRY WATER AND ALL OF OUR CITY VEHICLES AND WE'LL STOP AND GIVE IT TO THEM.

WE'LL GIVE THEM A RIDE ANYWHERE THEY WANT TO GO IF THEY NEED IT.

WE'RE NOT SAYING THAT, BUT WE ARE DOING IT.

AND SO THAT'S WHY I'M SWITCHING THINGS AROUND AND CHANGING THAT.

IT'S GOING TO TAKE ME A LITTLE TIME.

BUT I RECOGNIZE THAT WE AREN'T DOING OUR JOB AS WELL AS WE SHOULD BE.

I THINK IT'S JUST WHEN YOU'RE DOING THAT AND YOU'RE TRYING TO DO THIS OTHER STUFF, WE'RE JUST A LITTLE OVERWHELMED.

IT'LL GET WE'LL WORK IT OUT, BUT IT'S JUST GOT TO YOU GOT TO STILL ASK YOUR QUESTIONS.

IT'S JUST IF YOU'LL GIVE US A LITTLE GRACE, WE'LL WE'LL PULL IT OUT AND USE, YOU KNOW, BE DISCERNING ABOUT IT I THINK IS THE IF YOU CAN REASONABLY GO FIND THE ANSWER AND YOU'RE STILL CONFUSED AND ASK THE QUESTION.

BUT BUT IF IT'S.

THIS THING THAT IS NOT THE CITY'S SERVICE AREA TO PROVIDE CITY MAY HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF INFLUENCE, BUT IS THAT REALLY SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE DIRECTED TO THE SCHOOL DISTRICT TO BE DEALT WITH, OR ARE WE GOING TO RUN IT THROUGH THE CITY BECAUSE, OH, WELL, THE CITY HAS SOME INFLUENCE WITH YOU SEE WHAT I'M SAYING? LIKE USE A LITTLE DISCERNMENT BECAUSE THE MORE YOU CAN EDUCATE THOSE PEOPLE THAT ARE ASKING THE QUESTIONS OF YOU, THE BETTER THEY'RE GOING TO BE AT FINDING THEIR OWN SERVICES OR THEIR OWN ANSWERS. BUT I'D ALSO CAUTION YOU THAT AS AS SERVICES BECOME MORE AUTOMATED, WHICH IS WHAT WE'RE KIND OF GOING THROUGH, TEACHING THOSE PEOPLE HOW TO FISH RATHER THAN GIVING THEM THE FISH IS ONLY GOING TO BENEFIT THE SYSTEMS THAT WE'RE BUILDING IF WE BUILD A SYSTEM OF WORK ORDERS.

AND, YOU KNOW, ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS CALL CHANNEL 25 AND YOU'LL GET MOVED RIGHT UP ON THE LIST OR CALL COUNCIL MEMBER BACK AND YOU'LL GET MAYOR PRO TEM.

YOU'LL GET MOVED RIGHT UP ON THE LIST.

YOU'RE NOW NOT HONORING THAT KIND OF PROCEDURE OR PROCESS.

AND I GET IT. THEY'RE GOING TO CALL YOU.

THERE'S NO QUESTION ABOUT IT.

BUT IF YOU TEACH THEM TO GO FILE THE REQUEST, DO THE SYSTEM THING, YOU HAVE SET THEM UP FOR MORE SUCCESS IN THE FUTURE THAN JUST FIXING THAT ONE

[04:10:05]

YEAH. SO I THINK YOU HEARD COUNCIL MEMBER MELTZER SAY THAT HE WOULD LIKE SOME SUGGESTIONS FROM STAFF TO HANDLE DIFFERENTLY.

SO LET'S JUST USE AN EXAMPLE SO WE CAN SEND YOU REQUEST QUESTIONS.

AND THOSE REQUESTS SHOW UP ON THE FRIDAY REPORT.

YES. OKAY. ALL RIGHT.

SO WHAT? AND SOMETIMES THERE'S AN UNUSUALLY LARGE AMOUNT OF REQUESTS.

SOMETIMES THERE'S NO AVERAGE.

SO WHAT? IF YOU NEED TO TELL US SO YOU CAN MANAGE OUR EXPECTATIONS ON WHEN YOU SEND IN A REQUEST OF A CERTAIN NATURE.

THIS IS THE TIME FRAME OR THIS IS SORT OF WHAT WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH IT.

BECAUSE I KNOW IF WE SAY, HEY, THERE'S A THERE'S A PROJECT THAT'S NOT PERMITTED, YOU'RE ON IT.

IF IT'S, HEY, THIS GENERAL INFORMATION QUESTION.

SO I THINK WHAT WOULD BE HELPFUL IS THAT WE HAVE AN EXPECTATION OR NOT AN EXPECTATION, BUT WE HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF IF WE'RE SUBMITTING A QUESTION AND IT FALLS WITHIN CERTAIN CATEGORIES AND WE KNOW WHAT TYPICALLY THE RESPONSE TIME WILL BE, IF YOU I WOULD BE I WOULD NOT SUPPORT IF I SENT YOU TEN REQUESTS NEXT WEEK THAT SHOW UP IN THE FRIDAY REPORT.

AND YOU THINK YOU HAVE TO ANSWER THOSE ALL WITHIN A WEEK, I WOULD SAY, WELL, THERE'S PART OF THE PROBLEM.

AND SO I'M ASKING MANAGEMENT FOR GIVE US THIS THAT IS WORKABLE ON CERTAIN TYPES OF REQUESTS.

AND I KNOW I SAW I SAW IT.

I KNOW THE, THE, THE, THE, THE WHAT? FRANK'S GOING TO JUMP IN. YEAH.

OKAY. YEAH. AND THEN MY LAST, MY LAST COMMENT IS YOU MENTIONED THAT THERE'S STILL POSITIONS YOU'RE TRYING TO HIRE.

I GUESS IT'S MINE IN THE FINANCE, ITS BUDGET MANAGER, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR OF FINANCE, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR OF FINANCE, CITY SECRETARY, SOME H.R.

POSITIONS. BECKY IS TRYING TO FILL SOME, I GUESS.

I GUESS MY MY MY COMMENT THIS IS MY OWN PERSONAL COMMENT IS IF THERE'S A WAY TO FILL THOSE VACANCIES TEMPORARILY WITH CONTRACT WORK THAT AT LEAST BECAUSE IF IF YOU GUYS IF WE HAVE THAT MANY VACANCIES.

AND YOU ALL ARE TRYING TO DO YOUR JOB AND TRYING TO DO THE JOB OF THE PEOPLE THAT WE DON'T HAVE.

AND I CAN SEE HOW IF I JUST SEND YOU IN THREE REQUESTS, THAT'S GOING TO BE THE STRAW THAT GOES, OH MY GOSH, BECAUSE YOU'RE JUST OVERLOADED.

SO I WOULD JUST SIMPLY SAY, I HOPE DURING THIS BUDGET PROCESS OR IF YOU NEED IT BEFORE THEN, IF YOU'RE ABLE TO FILL THOSE EVEN ON A TEMPORARY CONTRACT BASIS, TO GIVE EVERYBODY RELIEF AND TO GET THOSE THINGS DONE.

MAN, I JUST WOULD TELL YOU, I SUPPORT THAT BECAUSE WE GOT TO I MEAN, THERE'S NO SENSE IN Y'ALL WORKING.

I MEAN, YOU'RE WORKING OVERTIME ALREADY WITHOUT US.

AND OF COURSE, WE ALL HAVE TO WORK TOGETHER.

SO ANYWAY, THOSE ARE MY COMMENTS.

I JUST WANT TO COSIGN ON ALL THAT COSIGN.

I THINK THE PROBLEM THE PROBLEM IS, ESPECIALLY WITH THESE HIGH LEVEL POSITIONS AND HILARY ALREADY TALKED ABOUT IT, THERE'S A LOT OF CITIES HIRING FOR FINANCE DIRECTORS, ASSISTANT FINANCE DIRECTORS, CITY SECRETARIES RIGHT NOW.

SO THE COMPETITION OUT THERE IS ALREADY UP HERE.

JESSE WAS DOING THREE FULL TIME JOBS IN ADDITION TO TRYING TO DO THE BUDGET AND RUN THE BOND PROGRAM ALONE.

SHE WAS DOING THE CFO IN THE ACM.

SIX AND A HALF MONTHS.

BEFORE WE GET AMY OVER THERE TO HELP.

SO SOME OF THESE ARE NOT JUST SIMPLY GO OUT AND CONTRACT SOMEONE OR GET SOMEBODY IN, ESPECIALLY RIGHT NOW DURING THE BUDGET.

IF WE BROUGHT SOMEBODY IN RIGHT NOW, IT WOULD HURT US MORE THAN HELP BECAUSE THEY'RE TOO FAR ALONG IN THE BUDGET PROCESS THERE.

THERE ARE SOME INTERIM SERVICES FOR CERTAIN.

I KNOW CITY SECRETARY, I'VE SEEN INTERIM PLACEMENTS AND FOR LONGER TERM FINANCE DIRECTOR KIND OF STUFF.

BUT THE OTHER THING WE TALKED ABOUT HOW CANDIDATES DO RESEARCH ABOUT THE GOVERNING BODY.

THEY ALSO ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW MUCH TIME, HOW MUCH, HOW MANY HOURS A WEEK AND HOW MUCH IS THE WORKLOAD AND WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE BECAUSE THEY HAVE NETWORKS. I'LL TELL YOU, CITY SECRETARIES WE HAD WE WERE HIRING ONE IN KILLEEN AND OUR MEETINGS WOULD GO UNTIL MIDNIGHT.

AND I MEAN, IT WAS JUST A CRAZY STUFF.

AND WE HAD TWO PEOPLE BACK OUT AFTER ASKING THAT QUESTION BECAUSE IT'S THERE'S THIS NEW WORK LIFE BALANCE KIND OF OK OUT THERE AND AND ALL THIS STUFF. AND YOU THINK, HOW MUCH OF HOW MUCH OF MYSELF AM I WILLING TO GIVE ABOVE AND BEYOND? AND SO THOSE THINGS HAPPEN, TOO.

AND THAT'S WHY IT'S SO IMPORTANT THAT YOU LISTEN TO SARAH WHEN SHE TALKS ABOUT CAPACITY AND WHAT THE WORKLOAD IS.

IT'S NOT BECAUSE EVERYBODY WANTS TO JUST DO LESS.

[04:15:02]

AND ALL OF THE LITTLE ONES AND TWOS ASKS AND REQUESTS JUST SORT OF BRING THAT AVERAGE DOWN.

I THINK THE ONE THING THAT HELPED ME THE MOST IS WHEN WE PUSH BACK AND SAY THIS NEEDS TO BE A FULL COUNCIL DISCUSSION IS THAT YOU ALL UNDERSTAND THAT AND TAKE IT TO THE FULL COUNCIL. THE EVERYDAY QUESTIONS BRING THOSE ON.

I MEAN, THERE'S A POTHOLE AND IT'S STARTING TO GET BIGGER.

WE NEED TO DEAL WITH THAT.

THERE'S A LIGHT OUT.

THERE'S SOMETHING THAT'S, YOU KNOW, EMERGENCIES, ANYTHING RELATED TO PUBLIC SAFETY, THINGS LIKE THAT.

WE GOT WE NEED TO GET ON THAT AND WE WANT TO GET ON THAT.

I LITERALLY DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM CALLING ME, TEXTING ME, WHATEVER.

IT'S ANYTHING THAT'S GOING TO TAKE LONGER DISCUSSIONS AND MUCH WILL BE MUCH MORE BENEFICIAL BY THE FULL COUNCIL DISCUSSION.

THEN WE NEED TO GET THAT INTO A TWO MINUTE PITCH OR WE NEED TO HAVE THAT AS A FULL COUNCIL DISCUSSION.

AND THEN.

AND A LOT OF THOSE ARE THOSE ARE THINGS THAT YOU REALLY NEED TO SAY AND THEN SET POLICY AROUND THE DAY TO DAY QUESTIONS ARE NOT SO DIFFICULT FOR US.

THERE'S A LOT OF THEM BECAUSE WE ALSO TAKE IN THE PUBLIC'S QUESTIONS.

BUT I ALSO WANT TO SAY THIS BECAUSE HE'S AWFUL QUIET OVER HERE, BUT EVERYTHING THAT COMES TO ME GOES TO HIM.

SHE'S POINTING TO YOU. MACK.

YEAH. MACK. ON.

BUT I MEAN, HE WON'T SAY IT, BUT WE COMPARE NOTES.

I GO DOWN THERE AND I'M LIKE, MAN, I'M ABOUT TO LOSE MY MIND.

AND HE'S LIKE. HE GETS THE CALL.

CAN I HAVE YOUR MEDICAL OPINION? YEAH, BUT I MEAN, HE GETS IT, TOO, AND HE'S TRYING TO RESPOND AND HE'S TRYING TO ANSWER THIS AND ALL THIS.

IT IS. IT IS A LOT.

THAT'S PART OF OUR JOB.

I UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT I THINK I THINK IF YOU CAN TAKE THOSE THINGS THAT ARE THE BIGGER PICTURE ONES AND ELEVATE THOSE TO A COUNCIL DISCUSSION, THAT WILL MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE.

AND THAT'S WHAT I PREFER, BECAUSE THEN YOU GIVE US THE DIRECTION, WE'LL GO NON STOP AND THEN YOU TELL ME HOW.

IF IT'S A MEDIUM HIGH OR LOW PRIORITY, WE'LL GO ESPECIALLY I'LL HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE MATRIX AND SHOW YOU HOW BACKED UP WE ARE, BUT WE CAN PULL THINGS OFF AND MOVE THINGS AROUND. WHATEVER YOU WANT TO DO, I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT, BUT I THINK THAT WOULD HELP.

YEAH. AND I GUESS I WOULD LIKE TO FOLLOW UP THAT BRIEFLY JUST TO SAY I'D LIKE TO KNOW IF THAT'S AN EMAIL PREFERENCE OR IS I KNOW YOU SAID ENGAGE DENTON IS BUSY, BUT IS IT BETTER ESPECIALLY FOR THOSE STREET ISSUES, POTHOLES, THAT SORT OF THING? WHAT'S THE BEST MECHANISM? CMO GO STRAIGHT TO CMO BECAUSE WE ALL GET THAT AND THEN IT'S DEALT WITH THE MINUTE SOMEBODY COMES IN.

IF I GET IT OVERNIGHT AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT I THINK I MAY CALL SOMEBODY IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED RIGHT AWAY.

AND I'VE DONE THAT BEFORE WHERE WE'VE HAD TO SEND SOMEONE OUT.

BUT BUT WE TRY TO ADDRESS THAT PRETTY QUICKLY WHEN IT COMES IN THE MORE EMERGENCY RELATED CMO OR OR IF IT'S AN EMERGENCY EMERGENCY, YOU CALL ME.

YEAH. YEAH. NO, NO, NO.

BUT I WAS JUST SAYING POTHOLE STUFF, THAT SORT OF THING.

YES. CMO OKAY. BECAUSE IN OUR CREWS WE SEND ETHAN AND CREWS OUT THERE TO GO EVALUATE IT, AND MANY TIMES THEY'LL FILL THE HOLE AND THEN IT SINKS AGAIN.

THEN WE HAVE TO FILL IT AGAIN AND THAT KIND OF STUFF.

BUT THEY THEY THEN KEEP THEIR EYE ON IT AND GO BACK AND TRY TO REFILL UNTIL IT STAYS FULL, UNTIL WE CAN TEAR UP THE ROAD AND DO IT RIGHT.

AND THEN I GUESS THE OTHER THING THAT I'LL FOLLOW UP WITH, AND MAYBE IT'S A IT'S A TRAINING, BUT THE ONE THING YOU DON'T HAVE CONTROL OVER AS A STAFF AND AS A MANAGEMENT IS JUST MINDFULNESS.

I FORGET WHAT YOU CALLED IT, BUT IT'S JUST JUST AN.

JUST AN UNDERSTANDING OF THE TOTALITY OF WHAT'S RIGHT.

AND SO IT GOES BACK TO THAT.

IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION AND YOU KNOW THERE'S OTHER QUESTIONS AND JUST THE THE EFFECT IT HAS, LIKE YOU HAVE TO LEAVE CAPACITY, YOU CAN'T DO ALL THINGS IMMEDIATELY BECAUSE WHAT IF EVERYONE'S DOING ALL THE I DON'T HAVE VISIBILITY INTO THOSE OTHER QUESTIONS.

YOU KNOW, AS SHE POINTED OUT, EVERYONE'S GETTING THESE THINGS.

AND SO THAT'S A SUGGESTION.

IT'S JUST THAT MINDFULNESS OF THERE'S OTHER PEOPLE IN THIS UNIVERSE THAT ARE DOING THE EXACT SAME THING.

AND SO BUT BUT I'LL GO BACK TO THE LAST THING THAT I THINK IT'S.

I WOULD SUPPORT SOMETHING GOING FORWARD THAT SAYS YOU HAVE ACCESS TO THAT INFORMATION.

EXAMPLE THERE'S DIRT MOVING IN FRONT OF BUGGIES.

I WAS CURIOUS HOW LONG IT WAS GOING TO TAKE THEM TO FILL THAT TO FILL THOSE SPOTS, BECAUSE I THINK THOSE ARE PREMIUM SPOTS.

AND I WAS LIKE, OKAY, WHAT IS IT? I COULD HAVE JUST AS EASY CALLED WAYNE OR EMAIL WAYNE AND SAID, HEY, WHAT IS THIS? I WENT TO THE GSA GIS MAP THAT WE HAVE AND IT SAYS DEVELOPMENTS OR WHATEVER IT'S CALLED YOU.

AND YOU GO TO THAT ADDRESS AND YOU LOOK AT IT AND IT SAYS LONGHORN STEAKHOUSE.

OKAY. LONGHORN STEAKHOUSE IS GOING IN FRONT OF BUCKY'S.

RIGHT? SO THE INFORMATION IS OUT THERE.

IT'S JUST SO I WOULD ENCOURAGE STAFF TO SAY, HEY, IT'S IN THE FRIDAY REPORT ON THIS DATE.

[04:20:05]

GO FIND IT. AND SO MUCH SO I BAKED THAT INTO MY POWERPOINT PRESENTATIONS.

I EVERYONE I PRESENT TO, I GIVE THEM EMAIL THEM A COPY OF THE PRESENTATION WITH THE HYPERLINKS IN IT THAT SAY, IF YOU WANT THIS, GO HERE.

IF YOU WANT THE FRIDAY REPORT, CLICK THIS LINK.

IF YOU WANT THIS, CLICK THIS LINK.

SO IT'S REALLY ONE OF THOSE THINGS WHERE I WOULD ENCOURAGE STAFF AND IF THEY DECIDE TO DO SO, I WOULD WELCOME IT AND I WOULD CHALLENGE ANYONE TO SAY THAT BECAUSE THAT'S THE THING, RIGHT? IT'S IF I WANT THE INFORMATION TO DISSEMINATE TO PEOPLE, BUT I DON'T WANT TO DO THE WORK, THEN THAT'S A PROBLEM.

I SHOULD BE WILLING TO DO THE WORK THAT IF I'M SAYING I'M ELECTED TO DO THIS, THEN I'M GOING TO DO IT.

AND WHAT THAT WILL DO IS SOLVE A LOT OF PROBLEMS BECAUSE IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S MUCH EASIER TO TAKE THE MO OF THE THREE STOOGES APPROACH THAT SAYS HE TOLD THE OTHER TWO, HEY, I'M GOING TO FIGHT TO THE LAST DROP OF YOUR BLOOD, YOU KNOW, VERSUS I.

I'M GOING TO TAKE MY TIME TO FIND THIS AND SEND THIS LINK TO SOMEONE.

I'M GOING TO TAKE MY TIME TO SEARCH THE REPORT, FIND THE ANSWER, SEND IT.

AND IT JUST WORKS.

I MEAN, WE HAVE THE MOST CONTROVERSIAL ISSUE, NOT OF ALL, BUT RECENTLY AND RYAN AND HIS TEAM HELPED ME CRAFT AN ANSWER AND I POSTED THAT ANSWER.

AND EVERY QUESTION, EVERY QUESTION I GOT, I CUT AND PASTE A SEGMENT OF THAT ANSWER AND SENT IT TO THEM AND IT WORKED SEAMLESSLY.

ONE ONE ANSWER THAT HE EQUIPPED ME WITH THAT I COULD CUT AND PASTE AND DO AND MAKE IT MY OWN AND ANSWER EVERYONE ELSE'S QUESTIONS.

AND THAT'S JUST A RESOURCES ARE OUT THERE, RIGHT? WE JUST GOT TO USE THEM.

THAT YOU CAN HAVE IF YOU SAY TO THE PERSON WHO IS REQUESTING WHATEVER THAT SERVICE IS.

YOU GO BACK TO THEM AND YOU SAY, I'VE LET THE CITY MANAGER KNOW.

HOWEVER, IF YOU GO HERE, YOU'LL FIND WHATEVER THIS THING IS, YOU'VE GIVEN THEM THE LINK TO IT.

YOU'VE BEEN RESPONSIVE. YOU'VE GIVEN THEM THE LINK.

THAT PERSON CAN THEN GO POST THAT LINK ON NEXTDOOR, ON FACEBOOK, ON WHATEVER.

AND IT'S A POWER MOVE THAT SAYS, HEY, THE INFORMATION IS OUT THERE.

I DIDN'T REALIZE IT, BUT I'M GOING TO TELL MY NETWORK THAT IT'S THERE.

SO USING THOSE OPPORTUNITIES IS A TEACHING MOMENT TOO, SO THAT THE COMMUNITY UNDERSTANDS THAT THE INFORMATION IS THERE.

IT'S NOT HIDDEN. BUT YOU HAVE BEEN THE CONDUIT THAT SAYS THIS IS HOW YOU GET TO IT, AND THEN THEY BECOME A CONDUIT TO GIVE IT TO THE REST.

I MEAN, THAT'S REALLY HOW IT WORKS.

YOU HAVE TO PUT IT IN PEOPLE'S HANDS.

AND WE ARE MISSING AN OPPORTUNITY FIRST IF WE'RE NOT TRAINING COUNSEL ON WHERE TO FIND INFORMATION.

BUT THEN WE'RE ALSO MISSING AN OPPORTUNITY IF WE AS STAFF OR WE AS COUNSEL, AREN'T ASSISTING PEOPLE IN UNDERSTANDING THAT THE INFORMATION IS OUT THERE AND THIS IS HOW YOU BEST ACCESS, IT DOESN'T MEAN YOU'RE CUTTING YOURSELF OUT OF THE DEAL.

IT'S JUST GOOD BUSINESS.

BECAUSE IF THEY HAVE THAT ONE QUESTION, THEY MAY HAVE 30 MORE OR THEY MAY FIND SOMETHING ELSE OF INTEREST THAT'S OUT THERE IN THOSE RESOURCES THAT THEY CAN USE AND TELL THEIR NEIGHBOR SUCH AND SUCH IS GOING ON.

SO ANYWAY, I'LL GET OFF MY COMMUNICATIONS HIGH HORSE.

COULD YOU SEND OUT YOUR STATS ON.

I HAD NO IDEA THAT WHAT YOU JUST DESCRIBED ABOUT GOING INTO A GIS SYSTEM, GOING INTO A AND THEN YOU FOUND WHAT WAS GOING THERE BASED.

I MEAN, OH, IT'S FANTASTIC.

SO IF YOU COULD JUST SOMEHOW GET THAT, I'D LIKE TO BE ABLE TO KNOW HOW TO DO THAT.

I DON'T WANT TO DO THE WORK SINCE YOU ALREADY DID IT ALL.

YEAH, I JUST WANT TO POINT I WANT TO GET CLEAR ON AND THIS IS COMING FROM PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION INSTRUCTION WHEN PEOPLE HAVE A TO KIND OF COMMENTS OR CONCERNS LIKE THIS STREETLIGHTS OUT OR WHATEVER, WHAT I DO IS I SAY, HEY, COULD YOU POSSIBLY SUBMIT THIS THROUGH THE ENGAGE DENTON APP AND LET ME KNOW WHAT THE RESPONSE IS THAT YOU GET.

I USUALLY DON'T TELL ME WHAT RESPONSE TO GET.

SOMETIMES THEY DO, AND I THOUGHT THAT'S WHAT YOU WOULD PREFER.

BUT I KIND OF HEARD YOU SAYING BEFORE, NO, NO, NOT ENGAGED DENTON CMO NO.

IF YOU COULD IF YOU CAN GET THEM TO DO THAT OR YOU THINK IT'S NECESSARY.

BUT I MEAN, LIKE I WORRY IF IT'S URGENT, IT'S URGENT, COME TO CMO OTHERWISE AND JUST KNOW ENGAGE DENTON WE'RE WORKING ON 311, WHICH IS A WHOLE NEW THING WHERE EVERYTHING WILL BE, IT'LL ALL BE COMBINED AND THAT'S GOING TO TAKE US THE TIME.

YOU GOT A PRESENTATION ON THAT.

BUT I WOULD SAY ENGAGE DENTON IS A PLACE WHERE THEY SHOULD BE SENDING IT BECAUSE IT'S KIND OF A ONE STOP SHOP.

BUT IF IT'S AN EMERGENCY OR YOU THINK IT IS SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO WE NEED TO DEAL WITH, I'M GOING TO TRUST THAT YOU'RE GOING TO GIVE IT TO ME, AND ESPECIALLY IF IT'S A REALLY EMERGENCY, I WOULD WANT YOU TO CALL ME OR SEND ME A TEXT BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO MISS AN OPPORTUNITY TO FIX SOMETHING THAT COULD HAVE CAUSED SOMETHING SERIOUS.

HIGH GRASS VERSUS TRAFFIC LIGHT.

RIGHT? BRIAN, DID YOU HAVE SOMETHING? NO, I'M GOOD.

OKAY, BACK TO MIRANDA.

ME TOO. OH, OKAY.

IS THIS SOMETHING THAT COULD BE PLUGGED INTO THE.

[04:25:03]

I MEAN. I MEAN, I.

I GET A UTILITY BILL YEAH. AND IF AND IF THAT KIND OF LITTLE NEWSY THINGS LIKE THAT WERE ON THE UTILITY BILL AND YOU PUT IT IN MY HAND, WE USED THAT THING EVERY MONTH.

WELL, WE GET, WE GET STUFF THAT TALKS ABOUT A LOT OF THINGS THAT, FRANKLY, I'M NOT INTERESTED IN.

BUT BUT IF YOU PUT IF YOU PUT THINGS LIKE THIS ON THERE.

CASE IN POINT, ALL MY NEIGHBORS PUT THEIR TRASH COLLECTION OUT ON MONDAY NIGHT.

OUR TRASH DAY IS TUESDAY.

WELL, IT DIDN'T WORK.

I MEAN, IT WAS THE NEXT DAY BECAUSE JUNETEENTH.

BUT THEY DIDN'T KNOW.

I KNEW, BUT. BUT THEY DIDN'T KNOW.

ISN'T THAT ALWAYS A GREAT FEELING? LIKE THESE SUCKERS DON'T KNOW. DON'T YOU FEEL LIKE YOU'RE THE SMARTEST GUY ON THE BLOCK? THAT'S RIGHT. I'M ON THE CITY COUNCIL.

I GOT INSIDER INFORMATION.

ANYWAY, I JUST THINK THAT'D BE A HANDY.

BUT THAT'S. YOU'RE DOING IT ANYWAY.

YOU'RE ALREADY MAILING IT.

WHAT HE'S SAYING. SO WHAT I WAS SAYING EARLIER IS, YOU KNOW, THERE'S SO MUCH NOISE, HOW DO YOU PUT IT IN THEIR HANDS? AND THAT'S ONE OF THOSE ARCHAIC SYSTEMS THAT STILL EXIST AND WILL ALWAYS EXIST TO SOME DEGREE, WHETHER PAPER OR DIGITAL.

AND IT'S YOU MAY HAVE A COMBINATION.

OURS WAS MOSTLY PAPER BECAUSE WE CHARGE PEOPLE TO PAY THEM DIGITALLY.

I MEAN, A LOT OF SENSE. AND SO WE WOULD PUT PRINTED COPIES OF THESE THINGS BECAUSE IT'S DIRECT MAIL.

BUT THEN, YOU KNOW, THE CITY I LIVE IN, TEMPLE SENDS THE EMAIL COPY EVERY MONTH AND HERE'S THE STUFF.

AND SO NOT EVERYBODY'S GOING TO READ IT, BUT AT LEAST YOU'VE TRIED TO PUT IT IN THEIR HANDS.

I CALLED. I COULDN'T CALL MONDAY BECAUSE BECAUSE IT WAS CLOSED BECAUSE THE CITY WAS CLOSED.

SO I CALLED TUESDAY AND I THOUGHT, HOW MANY HOW MANY GUYS LIKE ME ARE WASTING CITY TIME ANSWERING THIS YEAH YEAH YEAHS TOMORROW.

IT'S NOT TODAY. IT'S TOMORROW.

YEAH. YEAH.

SO SOME OF IT IS.

IS DATA GENERATIONAL? I MEAN, SOME OF THE DASHBOARDS THAT WE'RE ALL GOING THROUGH ARE THINGS THAT MEMBERS OF THIS COUNCIL AND A FEW BACK ACTUALLY HAD HAD ASKED FOR AND STAFF HAD PUT IN PLACE THE ENGINEERING MAP, THE THE PLANNING DASHBOARD AND RECOGNITION SYSTEM.

THE A LOT OF WHAT AMY'S BEEN IMPLEMENTING HAD BEEN LONG STANDING REQUESTS THAT THE STAFF HAS STOOD UP.

AND AND THIS ISN'T THIS ISN'T A DENIGRATION OF WHAT JOE JUST SAID WE YOU HAVE TO MEET.

PEOPLE, WHERE THEY ARE AND HOW THEY COMMUNICATE.

SO RYAN AND HIS TEAM HAS A TOUGH JOB BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO REPLICATE EVERYTHING IN SEVEN DIFFERENT MODALITIES.

BUT IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT FOR US TO TEACH THE PEOPLE THAT WATSON AND BECK PUT THIS UP ON, YOU KNOW, YEARS AGO.

CAN YOU PLEASE USE IT? AND BECAUSE OTHERWISE WE ARE JUST ASKING FOR IT TO BE REPLICATED IN THE BILL OR TO BE PUT IN THE DRC AND OR WHATEVER, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU DON'T WANT TO EXCLUDE PEOPLE WHO USE THAT AS THEIR COMMUNICATION MODALITY, BUT WE DO NEED TO RETRAIN OUR COMMUNITY AND THAT TAKES AN ACTIVE EFFORT.

HOW LONG DID IT TAKE? I'M GOING TO PICK ON THE JUDGE HERE TO RETRAIN SORT OF MEMBERS THAT WOULD OR RESIDENTS THAT WOULD APPEAR BEFORE HIM TO GO THROUGH HIS NEW ELECTRONIC PROCESS AND NOT GO THROUGH THE OLD PROCESS.

IT SEEMS LIKE 2 OR 3 YEARS.

AND SO BUT NOW IT'S, YOU KNOW, WE'RE LEAVING THE STATE TO SOME DEGREE ON THAT.

SO THAT'S WE REALLY NEED TO DO THAT IN THE REST OF THIS.

YOU USED A NUMBER THAT I ALWAYS USE AND THAT YOU HAVE TO HIT PEOPLE SEVEN TIMES WITH THE SAME PIECE OF INFORMATION BEFORE THEY'RE GOING TO HEAR IT.

AND THAT'S EXACTLY TRUE.

AND SO WHAT IS IT THAT YOU CAN DO THAT PUTS IT OUT THERE? SO IF THEY IF THEY'RE INCLINED TO GO GET IT, THEY CAN FIND IT.

IF THEY'RE GOOGLERS, GOOGLE PULLS IT UP FOR THEM.

IF THEY GET A PAPER WATER BILL, THEY GET SOMETHING THERE.

IF THEY'RE ON SOCIAL MEDIA, THEY GET.

BUT BASICALLY, I MEAN, WE'RE SO SEGMENTED AS AUDIENCES TODAY THAT TRYING TO CUT THROUGH THE NOISE AND HAVE SOMETHING RESONATE.

BUT BUT AGAIN, I'M LOVING THAT SARA IS SAYING WE NEED TO DO A BETTER JOB.

WE HAVE TO REALLY PUTTING IT OUT THERE AND GETTING IT OUT THERE BECAUSE THAT'S GOING TO AFFECT THE MOST BENEFICIAL RESULTS FOR THE COMMUNITY.

I WILL HAVE YOU KNOW, WHEN I MET WITH ASSISTANT CITY MANAGERS AND IN A MEETING.

IN. SOME OTHER FOLKS WERE THERE.

I SEE. YOU KNOW WHAT WE CAN DO WHEN ENGAGED IN ON A BILLBOARD OUT THERE ON THE HIGHWAY AND SOMEBODY IS GOING TO GET ON THERE AND FIND OUT WHAT IT IS.

AND ONCE THEY FIND OUT WHAT IT IS, THEY'RE GOING TO REALIZE THAT DENTON IS ONE BIG GIANT HOA BECAUSE ARTS PEOPLE TELL ON EACH OTHER FOR EVERY SINGLE THING AND, YOU KNOW, AND THEY GET OUT THERE AND GET RESPOND TO IT.

[04:30:03]

ENGAGED. IT'S ALSO USING SYSTEMS THAT YOU HAVE ACCESS TO.

LIKE I DON'T KNOW IF YOU ALL HAVE THIS REVERSE 911 OR CODE RED OR ANY OF THOSE SYSTEMS. THERE ARE CERTAIN PROVISIONS THAT SAY YOU CAN'T DO THIS AND YOU CAN'T DO THAT.

BUT IF YOU JUST PUT IN THERE SOMETHING ABOUT WATER SERVICES OR IF YOU HAVE AN OUTAGE EMERGENCY, CALL IT MEETS THE TEST.

TYPICALLY, I'M I JUST WENT THROUGH THIS WITH TEMPLE.

SO SO THAT'S WHY I'M SAYING THIS BUT BUT YOU CAN FIGURE OUT WAYS TO MAKE IT RELEVANT BECAUSE IF YOU CAN USE THE CELLULAR PINGING TECHNOLOGY THAT'S BUILT INTO IT VERSUS THE SUBSCRIPTION SYSTEM, BUT PUT THAT IN THEIR HANDS, THAT'S I MEAN, WHO DOESN'T USE THEIR CELL PHONE ALL DAY, EVERY DAY? AND IF I HAD SOMETHING THAT I CAN JUST CLICK ON AND DOWNLOAD THE APP, I MEAN, RIGHT, RIGHT.

I MEAN, THOSE THOSE ARE THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT CAN CAN REALLY BE POWER MOVES BUT CAN REACH A DIFFERENT AUDIENCE THAN YOUR TYPICAL NEWSLETTER OR TYPICAL SOCIAL MEDIA.

ONE BRANDON, CAN YOU JUMP BACK TO THE TWO MINUTE PITCH CONVERSATION? OKAY, WE'RE GOING TO HIT IT HERE IN A SECOND IF YOU WANT TO WAIT UNTIL WE GET TO THE.

OKAY. OKAY.

SO ANYTHING ELSE ON THIS BEFORE WE REALLY START MOVING TOWARD SOME POTENTIAL POLICY ELEMENTS? OKAY. SO THIS IS JUST TO KIND OF WRAP UP THIS.

ALL OF THE MEMBERS INDICATED THAT THEY HAVE A DESIRE TO IMPROVE THE GOVERNANCE SYSTEM.

THEY SAW THAT THERE COULD BE IMPROVEMENT.

NOBODY SAID IT WAS PERFECT.

THEY ALL WANT ALL OF YOU SAID THAT DELIBERATE AND HONEST DISCUSSION WAS SOMETHING THAT YOU DESIRED, THAT YOU WANTED TO SEE RESPECT OF ALL MEMBERS ON THE COUNCIL, AND THAT GOOD GOVERNANCE POLICY COULD BE GOOD FOR BUSINESS, MEANING GOVERNMENT BUSINESS.

SO WE'RE WE'RE.

WE'RE JUST ALL OVER THE PLACE.

YEAH. ANYBODY WANT LUNCH? SO. SO NOW. SO WHY WHY WOULD WE EVEN BE HERE TODAY TALKING ABOUT GOVERNANCE POLICY? SO WE'VE KIND OF BROKEN IT ALL DOWN AND GOTTEN A LOT OF OPINIONS OUT THERE.

AND NOW WHAT WE WANT TO DO IS KIND OF BUILD IT BACK UP IN A WAY THAT'S BETTER THAN THAN WHAT IT CURRENTLY IS.

BUT, YOU KNOW, GOVERNANCE POLICIES ARE IMPORTANT BECAUSE THEY ARE YOUR AUTHORITY AND YOUR RESPONSIBILITY NOT JUST TO ADOPT, BUT TO UPHOLD.

AND WE'LL TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THAT.

BUT IT IS NOT THE CITY MANAGER'S ROLE NOR HER RESPONSIBILITY TO ENFORCE YOUR GOVERNANCE POLICIES, NOR IS IT THE CITY ATTORNEY'S.

THAT IS SOMETHING THAT THAT SHOULD BE YOUR RESPONSIBILITY.

YOU SHOULD BE THE ONES WHO SAY WHEN A POLICY IS VIOLATED, YOU SHOULD BE THE ONES WHO SAY WHEN A POLICY NEEDS TO BE CHANGED, BECAUSE ULTIMATELY IT'S YOUR ROLES AS A BODY FOR ENGAGEMENT. IT IS THE SUPPORT SYSTEM OF GOVERNANCE.

SO IT IS THE IN THE BLACK AND WHITE.

IT SAYS THIS IS HOW WE DO BUSINESS.

THIS IS THE EXPECTATION WE HAVE OF OURSELVES AND EACH OTHER.

IT OUTLINES THOSE RULES OF ENGAGEMENT.

SO IT BECOMES THE PLAYBOOK.

IT CREATES THIS CLARITY OF PROCESS AND ACCOUNTABILITY FOR ACTIONS THAT ARE TAKEN THERE TO BE USED AS TOOLS, NOT WEAPONS.

SO I KNOW A LOT OF TIMES PEOPLE THINK, OH MY GOSH, YOU'RE GOING TO POLICY ME TO DEATH OR POLICY ME INTO A CORNER AND THEN I WON'T BE ABLE TO DO ANYTHING.

THAT'S NOT THE PURPOSE.

THE PURPOSE IS TO CREATE THE THE THE LEGITIMATE EXPECTATION OF THE BEHAVIOR AND THE INTERACTIONS OF THIS GROUP, AND THEN NOT TO WEAPONIZE THOSE POLICIES AGAINST EACH OTHER, TO SHUT DOWN DELIBERATION OR SHUT DOWN DISCUSSION OR OR, YOU KNOW, USURP SOMEONE ELSE'S AUTHORITY.

ULTIMATELY, I LOOK AT IT AS THIS IS A LEVEL OF TRANSPARENCY.

THE MORE OF THIS WE CAN PUT IN WRITING, THE MORE WE CAN AS A BODY UNDERSTAND THAT WE'RE FOLLOWING THE SAME RULES, BUT IT ALSO GIVES CLARITY TO THE PUBLIC OF WHY WE DO THINGS THE WAY WE DO, THE STANDARDS WE HOLD OURSELVES TO, AND WHAT THEY CAN EXPECT OF THE PROCESS.

AND THEN, I MEAN, AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE'RE REALLY JUST TRYING TO IMPROVE THE FUNCTION OF GOVERNMENT.

EVERYBODY SAYS THEY WANT DENTON TO BE THE BEST CITY IT CAN BE.

AND SO IF THIS IS A WAY TO HELP US IN OUR DELIBERATIONS AND OUR DECISION MAKING, THEN SOME OF THESE COULD BE BENEFICIAL TO THAT PROCESS.

SO WHAT YOU HAVE IS YOU HAVE A CITY CHARTER THAT OUTLINES CITY MANAGER, COUNCIL FORM OF GOVERNMENT, ALL OF THAT SORT OF STUFF AND DICTATES THE POWERS AND AND RESPONSIBILITIES OF CITY MANAGER AND COUNCIL MAYOR, ALL OF THAT.

THEN YOU HAVE YOU HAVE A COPY OF IT, BUT YOU HAVE SECTION 229, WHICH IS THE CITY COUNCIL RULES OF PROCEDURE.

SO THIS IS KIND OF MORE OF A PROTOCOL DOCUMENT.

IT SAYS THIS IS HOW A MEETING GOES, THIS IS WHAT A CONSENT AGENDA ITEM IS, THIS IS WHAT A ATTENDANCE LOOKS LIKE, THIS IS WHAT A COMMITTEE WOULD BE.

IT HAS SORT OF ORDER OF BUSINESS AND THAT KIND OF STUFF.

AND THEN YOU'VE GOT THIS SUPPLEMENTAL.

COORDINATES 21 1837, WHICH IS THE TWO MINUTE PITCH.

SO THOSE ARE THE DOCUMENTS THAT I FOUND THAT REGARD THE STANDARDS BY WHICH YOU CONDUCT YOUR MEETINGS AND YOU CONDUCT YOUR ENGAGEMENTS AS AS A COUNCIL, AS A GOVERNING BODY.

MACK IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT I WAS NOT PROVIDED PRIOR TO THIS THAT DICTATES THEIR BEHAVIOR? WELL, NO, THERE'S A LITTLE BIT IN OUR CHARTER, AND THEN THE CHARTER, BY AND LARGE, OUR ADOPTED ROBERT'S RULES, WHICH IS THE BACKUP FOR ROBERT'S.

[04:35:06]

SO NOW I AM THIS IS JUST KIND OF THIS IS WHAT I HAVE SEEN USED IN MULTIPLE OTHER CITIES.

THIS IS NOT IN ANY WAY TELLING YOU HOW YOU WERE TO DO BUSINESS.

IT IS ALL UP TO YOU.

THESE ARE SUGGESTIONS.

IF YOU THINK THEY'RE TERRIBLE, WE WILL MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ONE.

BUT THIS IS AT LEAST A PLACE TO START THE CONVERSATION TO ADDRESS SOME OF THOSE ISSUES THAT WE TALKED ABOUT A FEW SLIDES AGO.

SO POTENTIAL IMPROVEMENTS WE COULD FURTHER DEFINE MAYORAL RESPONSIBILITIES.

AND SO THIS IS ALL YOU HAVE HANDOUTS.

BUT YOU CAN ALSO READ THIS. I'M SORRY IF THE IF THE PRINT IS SMALL ON THESE SLIDES.

SOME OF THIS IS MAYBE TOUCHED ON IN YOUR CURRENT DOCUMENT, YOUR CURRENT SECTION OF THE ORDINANCE, BUT SOME OF THIS ALSO GOES A STEP OR TWO BEYOND. AND THIS IS WHAT I'VE SEEN IN MULTIPLE OTHER CITIES.

THIS ONE, YOU KNOW, DICTATES THE VOTE.

SOME OF THIS IS ALREADY IN THERE.

BUT, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN ALSO LOOK AT THINGS LIKE THIS ONE.

AND THE CHAIR WILL ENCOURAGE ALL MEMBERS TO PARTICIPATE IN COUNCIL DISCUSSION AND GIVE EACH MEMBER AN OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK BEFORE ANY MEMBER CAN SPEAK AGAIN ON THE SAME SUBJECT AND THE CHAIR WILL HOLD HIMSELF OR HERSELF TO THE SAME STANDARDS.

THESE ARE THINGS TO CONSIDER.

THE OFFICIAL SPOKESPERSON DO WE DESIGNATE THAT HE IS THE OFFICIAL SPOKESPERSON SO LONG AS HE IS CONVEYING THE MESSAGE OF WHAT IS TRUE AND CORRECT OF THE BODY, WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED IN THE DELIBERATIONS? AND IF HE IS SPEAKING AS AN INDIVIDUAL VOTING MEMBER, THAT HE WOULD DECLARE THAT CLEARLY BEFORE HE SAID THIS WAS THE OPINION OF THE BODY.

I DON'T KNOW. PUTTING IT OUT THERE.

MAYOR, THIS AFFECTS YOU.

WHAT DO YOU THINK? I MEAN, REALLY, I'D LIKE TO I MEAN, IT'S JUST GOING TO BE A GROUP DECISION, RIGHT? BECAUSE CANDIDLY, I'LL MAKE A DECISION I DON'T LIKE AND SOMEONE QUESTIONS IT AND THEN YOU GET THE FOUR THREE THING KICK IN AND TRY TO USURP IT.

SO I JUST TRY TO STAY IN STUFF THAT IS UNSEARCHABLE, BUT IT'S SO IT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS WHERE IT'S AN INTERESTING DYNAMIC.

IT'S OCCUPATIONAL HAZARDS.

ALL THAT BEING SAID, I THINK MOST OF THIS IS IN LINE WITH WHAT'S IN THE CHARTER, BUT JUST TRULY TO SKIRT SOME OF THAT ADVERSARIAL TYPE STUFF AND HOPEFULLY WE COME OUT OF THIS WITHOUT IT. BUT IF I MAKE A DECISION THAT THE FOUR MYSTERIOUS FOUR DOESN'T MATTER WHICH FOUR OF THE OF THE SIX FOUR SAY WE DON'T LIKE IT, THEN THERE'S THIS WHOLE RIGMAROLE AND IT'S ONLY HAPPENED SINCE I'VE BEEN MAYOR.

IT'S NEW. SO WE HAVEN'T HAD A LOT OF TIME TO STUDY IT.

AND MAYBE IT'S MY MANAGEMENT STYLE, RIGHT? SO FOR FULL DISCLOSURE, BUT ALL THAT TO SAY A LOT OF THIS IS CAPTURED, A LOT OF THIS BECAUSE OF THE ENVIRONMENT.

I TRY TO STEER CLEAR OF THOSE KIND OF WHERE, HEY, I GET WE AGREED I MAKE THIS DECISION BECAUSE IT JUST IT CONFLICTS WITH OTHER THINGS AND BECOMES A POINT OF CONTENTION THAT I'D LIKE TO AVOID.

MIND IF I PUSH BACK, I WOULD EXPECT THAT, HEY, ARE WE BEING CANDID OR NOT? WE ARE, BUT WE'RE NOT BEING CAUSTIC.

OKAY. SO, SO, SO BUT SO I SHOULDN'T I MEAN, AGAIN, I JUST WE'VE HAD WE'VE HAD WE HAVE A LONG HISTORY AND I'LL BRING IT UP TO YOU LATER. BUT JUST TO SAY THIS IS THERE'S IT'S NOT NEW.

RIGHT. IT'S BEEN 4 OR 5 PUBLIC MEETING ISSUES THAT I'M BASING IT ON.

IT'S NOT ONE OFF.

IT'S NOT GERARD CAN'T GET OVER IT.

IT'S AT SOME POINT IT'S A PATTERN.

I WOULD HAVE SAID, PLEASE DO VERSUS I'D EXPECT IT, YOU SEE.

SURE. RIGHT.

AND THERE'S SOMETHING TO BE SAID FOR THAT.

AND AND WE'LL TALK.

IT'S NOT FOR THIS DISCUSSION, BUT I'LL SHARE SOME THOUGHTS.

GO AHEAD. BRING.

USE THAT WORD USURP PARLIAMENTARY PROCEDURES IS THE RULE IS WHATEVER A MAJORITY OF THE BODY SAYS IT IS. IT'S NOT PUSHING BACK ON YOU.

IT'S PUSHING BACK ON A DECISION YOU'VE MADE.

SO IF YOU MAKE THE DECISION TO END DEBATE AND SOMEONE APPEALS THE RULING OF THE CHAIR AND THREE OTHER MEMBERS SUPPORT THAT, THAT'S IT.

IT'S NOT AGAINST YOU PERSONALLY.

AND IF YOU'RE SAYING THAT ONLY HAPPENED WHEN YOU BECAME CHAIR CHAIR OF THE MEETINGS, I WASN'T HERE WHEN CHRIS WAS CHAIR OF THE MEETINGS, BUT THAT REGULARLY HAPPENS IN MANY BODIES THAT GOVERN THEMSELVES UNDER PARLIAMENTARY PROCEDURES.

IT IS NOT A NEW THING TO APPEAL THE RULING OF THE CHAIR.

DID THAT DID THAT HAPPEN WHEN YOU WERE MAYOR? I DON'T I DON'T RECALL THAT.

I MEAN, IT COULD HAVE. OKAY.

SO MAYBE IT DIDN'T HAPPEN A LOT BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY YOU DON'T REMEMBER IT, BUT THAT DOES HAPPEN REGULARLY IN OTHER BODIES.

OKAY. AND IT REALLY SHOULDN'T BE TAKEN AS CONSPIRATORIAL.

[04:40:06]

DOING WHAT THEY THINK AND WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO ALLOW TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT.

BUT WE THINK NOT ONLY FOR OUR CONSTITUENTS, BUT THE CITY AS A WHOLE.

AND IF WE'RE NOT DOING THAT, THEN WE'RE WE'RE FAKING WE'RE FAKES BECAUSE WE'RE SUPPOSED TO KEEP IN MIND.

ALL THE THINGS YOU HEAR EVERY DAY.

AND WE'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERYTHING EVENTUALLY.

SO IT'S OKAY TO NOT AGREE AND EVERYTHING DOESN'T HAVE TO BE SO PERSONAL.

WE OUGHT TO BE STEPPING IN THIS WITH THE MINDSET THAT IT'S NOT ABOUT US.

IT'S FOR THE PEOPLE.

AND WILL WE? I THINK THAT WHEN WE START TAKING IT JUST A BIT PERSONAL, THEN WE'RE OFF TRACK.

WE TRACK. I WANT PEOPLE TO SAY NO.

WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO POINT TO POLICIES VERSUS PERSONALITIES.

SO SO MY QUESTION WOULD BE TO SAY ON THIS TOPIC, WHAT DO YOU WHAT WOULD YOU EXPECT IF THE MINUTE YOU ARRIVED AT THE HOUSE, THINGS CHANGE, RIGHT? DO YOU THINK IT'S JUST A NATURAL SHIFT OF THINGS AND JUST AND THIS TIME JUST IT JUST HAPPENED? IT'S JUST AN EPIPHANY.

YEAH. NO, ABSOLUTELY. I MEAN, DYNAMICS CHANGE.

AND SO YOU KNOW THAT WHEN YOU'RE HAVING A SIDEBAR CONVERSATION WITH YOUR BROTHER IN LAW AND MOTHER WALKS UP, YOU MAY SHUT UP.

WELL, MAYBE IT'S JUST ME AND MY SISTER IN LAW TALKING ABOUT MY MOTHER IN LAW.

BUT. BUT YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING? LIKE, THINGS. THINGS JUST SHIFT AND THEY'RE JUST NOT GOING TO BE THE SAME AS THEY WERE.

BUT YOU ALSO HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THERE'S A REASON WHY PEOPLE STOP TALKING WHEN YOU WALK AROUND OR THERE'S A REASON WHY THEY CHANGE THEIR REACTION.

IT'S IT'S NOT IT DOESN'T GO ONE WAY.

AND SO TRYING TO LEAN INTO AND UNDERSTAND THE DYNAMIC AND TRYING NOT TO BE PART OF THE DYNAMIC, DEVOLVING ANY FURTHER THAN IT HAS IS A POWER YOU HOLD. YOU CAN'T CONTROL WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO.

ALL YOU CONTROL IS YOUR RESPONSE TO IT.

YEAH. AND I THINK THE OTHER THING THAT I WILL SAY AND I'M CERTAIN ABOUT THIS, WE'VE HEARD THIS PERSONAL THING.

IT'S NOT PERSONAL.

IT TRULY IS NOT.

BUT THERE IS A FACT THAT I HOLD IN GREATER REVERENCE THE FACT THAT WHAT I WHAT AND I DON'T I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND IT BEFORE I SAT IN THE SEAT.

SO I'M NOT PROJECTING ON ANYONE.

I'M TELLING YOU MY EXPERIENCE.

I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND SITTING IN THE SEAT WHAT IT ENTAILS.

BUT I HAVE ABSOLUTELY EARNED THE RIGHT TO SIT IN THIS SEAT.

RIGHT. AND AND IF THERE'S A DISAGREEMENT WITH HOW I MANAGE THE RESPONSIBILITY PLACED IN THE SEAT, I DON'T THINK THE DAIS IS THE PLACE TO DO THAT.

I THINK THE PLACE TO DO THAT IS AN OPEN CAMPAIGN WHERE WE CAN HAVE THOSE OPEN DISCUSSIONS.

RIGHT. IT'S SO IT'S THIS PUSH BACK I THINK IS ALMOST I IT IT IT SEEMS LIKE PEOPLE.

DON'T HOLD AN UNDERSTANDING OF.

UH, THE VOTERS HAD A CHOICE.

VERY CLEAR CHOICE.

TWO OPTIONS, AND THEY MADE A CHOICE.

NOW, I'M NOT SAYING YOU HAVE TO.

I WOULD EXPECT SOMEONE TO UNILATERALLY GET BEHIND THAT.

BUT I THINK JUST USING A LEGAL TERM, A PREPONDERANCE OF THE EVIDENCE, IT'S MORE LIKELY THAN NOT I'M GOING TO DEFER VERSUS AN UPTICK IN CONFRONTATION WITH THE CHAIR.

RIGHT. SO THAT MORE LIKELY THAN NOT, IF IT'S NOT EGREGIOUS DECISION.

RIGHT. IF IT'S A IF IT'S A PLAY AT THE PLATE.

OKAY. MORE LIKELY THAN NOT, WE'RE GOING TO DEFER TO THE ON THE FIELD AND NOT OVERTURN THAT.

RIGHT. BUT BUT SO THAT'S THE AND THAT COULD BE MY OWN JUST CHARACTER FLAW IN HOW I APPROACH LIFE.

RIGHT. AND PROJECTING THAT ON OTHERS FULL DISCLOSURE.

RIGHT. AND SO THAT'S JUST SOMETHING I'LL PROCESS THROUGH.

WE'LL GET BETTER EVERY DAY.

RIGHT. BUT BUT IT'S NOT PERSONAL.

IT IS NOT THAT IT IS.

YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT IT TAKES TO GET HERE.

IT'S LIKE SOMEONE WITH A DOCTORATE DEGREE, RIGHT? I HAVE A NEW UNDERSTANDING BECAUSE MY MOM WENT THROUGH IT OF WHAT THAT TAKES, RIGHT.

AND. AND THERE'S A REVERENCE FOR THAT.

THERE'S A REVERENCE FOR A PERSON THAT'S AHEAD OF ANY CHURCH.

I DON'T CARE WHAT DENOMINATION, WHETHER I AGREE WITH OR NOT.

THERE'S A LOT THAT GOES INTO THAT.

THERE'S A CONGREGATION THAT GOES BEHIND THAT AND A LOT OF MOVING PARTS AND A LOT OF THINGS THAT GO WITH THAT.

SO I MAY BE JUST MORE IN TUNE TO THAT THAN OTHERS.

AND SO GUILTY OF HOW HOW IT AFFECTS ME BECAUSE I'VE DEALT WITH MAYOR WATTS, MAYOR BURROWS AND OTHERS, YOU KNOW, SO IT'S JUST HOW I CONDUCT MYSELF AROUND THEM, HOW I COMPORT MYSELF AROUND THEM.

AND SO MAYBE THAT'S JUST ME AND BEING TOO, YOU KNOW, ANTIQUATED OR KIND OF TRADITIONAL AND HOW I DO THOSE THINGS.

AND THAT'S FINE.

[04:45:01]

IT'S MAYORAL RESPONSIBILITIES AND NOT GERARD RESPONSIBILITIES.

DO YOU SEE WHAT I'M SAYING? WE NEED TO DIVORCE THE PERSONALITY FROM THE POLICY DECISIONS THAT WE MAKE.

BECAUSE ULTIMATELY, IF YOU WERE TO ADOPT SOMETHING LIKE THIS AND SOME OTHER MAYOR CAME IN, THEY WOULD BE HELD TO THE SAME STANDARD.

SO WE'RE REALLY LOOKING AT BEST PRACTICES AND NOT WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO TO KIND OF CONFORM THE PERSON WHO'S CURRENTLY IN THE SEAT INTO THAT ROLE.

THE NEXT SLIDE IS GOING TO BE ABOUT COUNCIL.

AND SO REALLY WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IS, IS THERE IS THERE A STANDARD THAT YOU WANT TO SET THAT SAYS THAT THIS IS THE EXPECTATION OF A MAYOR? ACCORDING TO OUR GOVERNING STANDARDS, REGARDLESS OF WHO'S IN THE SEAT? THIS IS THIS IS WHAT WE AS DENTON WANT TO REPRESENT TO THE PUBLIC AS OUR MAYOR.

GO AHEAD. I THINK WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SINCE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT RUNNING A MEETING.

RIGHT. I APPRECIATE THAT.

THE ONLY TWO PEOPLE IN THIS ROOM WHO UNDERSTAND THE RESPONSIBILITIES OF MAYOR ARE GERARD AND CHRIS.

NONE OF THE REST OF US HAVE SAT IN THAT SEAT.

AGAIN, AWESOME RESPONSIBILITIES, BELIEVE IT OR NOT.

WE UNDERSTAND AND WE RESPECT THAT.

BUT YOU THEN CAN'T THE THE NEXT BREATH SAY YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, BUT YOU KNOW, LET'S GO A DIFFERENT DIRECTION.

WHEN YOU'RE RUNNING A MEETING AS CHAIR, WE CANNOT SET A PRECEDENT TO SAY THAT BECAUSE I AM CHAIR OF THE MEETING.

THE WAY THAT I CONDUCT A MEETING CAN ONLY BE QUESTIONED EVERY TWO YEARS IN AN ELECTION PROCESS.

WE HAVE COUNCIL COMMITTEES AND IN OUR COUNCIL COMMITTEES, WE'RE GOING TO CHOOSE A CHAIR.

WOULD IT BE OKAY IF THOSE COMMITTEE CHAIRS THEN ALSO GOVERN THE SAME WAY? I JUST DON'T ACCEPT THAT WE DON'T HAVE THAT CONVERSATION.

BUT FOR EVERY TWO YEARS DURING AN ELECTION PROCESS, THAT IS WHY THERE ARE PROCESSES WITHIN ROBERT'S RULES OF ORDER THAT BASICALLY SAY MAJORITY GOVERNS. YOU UNDERSTAND? I'M SAYING IT'S NOT.

AND I APPRECIATE YOU SAYING IT'S NOT PERSONAL.

YEAH. WHAT WE ARE DOING IS THAT WE ARE INFORMING THE WAY THAT ALL PEOPLE WHO SIT IN THE CHAIR SEAT ARE TO BEHAVE AND THE WAY THE COUNCIL SHOULD ALSO BEHAVE IN REACTION TO THEM.

YOU TALKED ABOUT THIS ONLY HAPPENING WHEN YOU WERE HERE.

I RESPECT THAT I WASN'T HERE WHEN WHEN CHRIS WAS MAYOR.

I WASN'T HERE WHEN MARK WAS MARRIED.

BUT HAVING SAID THAT, THE NEXT MAYOR IS ALSO GOING TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE SAME TYPES OF THINGS AGAIN.

SOMETIMES BODIES DISAGREE WITH THE PEOPLE WHO ARE SITTING AS CHAIR OF THE MEETING.

THAT'S OKAY.

THAT IS ACTUALLY A GOOD PART OF THE PROCESS.

THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY THERE TO HAVE DISCUSSION BECAUSE YOU MAKE A MOTION, THEN YOU HAVE DISCUSSION.

THAT'S A CHANCE FOR YOU TO TELL US WHY YOU'RE DOING WHAT WE'RE DOING.

THAT'S A CHANCE FOR US TO THEN SAY WHY WE WANT YOU TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT AND THEN WE ALL GET TO VOTE.

THAT'S THE BEAUTY OF DEMOCRACY.

SO I'M I'M SADDENED THAT YOU FEEL THAT WAY.

BUT IN ADDITION TO THAT BEING THE SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT THAT WE HAVE, I BELIEVE IT'S ALSO THE RIGHT THING TO DO TO BE OKAY WITH US QUESTIONING SOMETIMES THE DECISIONS THAT YOU MAKE, SUCH AS LIFE.

RIGHT. AND THAT SOUNDS GREAT, BUT I'LL USE FAMILY LAW, FOR EXAMPLE, RIGHT? BECAUSE IN FAMILY LAW YOU HAVE TWO PARENTS AND IF YOU UNFORTUNATELY, THEY DON'T MAKE IT AND THERE'S A COURT PROCEEDING THAT DECIDES WHO'S GOING TO HAVE THE KIDS. RIGHT.

AND WHO'S GOING TO MAKE DECISIONS THAT CANNOT AND NEVER IS 50 OVER 50.

IT JUST CAN'T WORK BECAUSE YOU'D HAVE TO GO TO THE COURTHOUSE EVERY DAY ON EVERY DISPUTE, ON EVERY DECISION.

SOMEONE HAS TO HAVE 50.0001%.

RIGHT? SO ALL I'M ASKING FOR IS PROFESSIONAL DEFERENCE TO SAY IF I DON'T MAKE AN EGREGIOUS ERROR.

SAVE YOUR CHALLENGE FLAG.

IF I MAKE AN EGREGIOUS ERROR THROW.

YOUR CHALLENGE FLAG. THERE'S NO REASON THAT THERE SHOULD BE AN UPTICK IN CHALLENGE FLAGS IN ONE ARBITRARY YEAR.

YOU SHOULD RESERVE THAT FOR THE UTMOST.

HE IS GETTING IT WRONG.

THE THE CHAIR OF THE MEETING IS EGREGIOUSLY WRONG AND IT'S A LEGAL ERROR THAT NEEDS TO BE CHALLENGED.

NOT A DIFFERENCE OF OPINION.

DIFFERENCES OF OPINION TO A SMALL DEGREE, SHOULD BE HASHED OUT IN CAMPAIGN SEASON.

YOU DON'T GET TO SAY BECAUSE I AND THREE OTHER PEOPLE AGREE, WE'RE GOING TO DOMINATE THE MAYOR'S SEAT WITHOUT HAVING TO GO THROUGH WHAT IT TAKES TO BE MAYOR UNTIL WE CAN GET IN THAT SEAT.

RIGHT. YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THERE IS AN ELECTION, AND THAT WAS ONE.

AND I BELIEVE WHOEVER SITS IN THIS CHAIR, HAVING EXPERIENCED IT OR NOT, DESERVES THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT UNLESS IT'S EGREGIOUS.

AND I'M SAYING IT'S OVERUTILIZED.

IT'S I DON'T LIKE WHAT HE SAID.

[04:50:01]

NOT HE'S VIOLATING A LEGAL POSITION AND I'M CALLING HIM ON THAT.

NO DIFFERENT THAN OUR LAST MEETING WHERE IT'S LIKE, HEY, THE MOTION SHOULD BE THIS.

THAT'S A LEGAL CHALLENGE TO AN ISSUE.

NOT I DON'T LIKE THAT.

I'D RATHER KEEP TALKING, BUT IF I MAKE ONE MORE STATEMENT THAN A QUESTION.

SO I APPRECIATE THAT.

THANK YOU FOR FOR ACTUALLY EXPLAINING WHAT YOUR PERSPECTIVE IS, HOW YOU FEEL UNNECESSARILY ATTACKED.

I DON'T KNOW IF I DON'T KNOW IF WE ALL HEARD THAT PARTICULAR PIECE BEFORE.

I DON'T KNOW THAT I CAUGHT IT BEFORE.

SO THANK YOU FOR SAYING THAT. YOU TALKED ABOUT ELECTIONS AND CAMPAIGNS.

YOU WERE NOT WERE ELECTED IN THE SAME YEAR ON THE SAME BALLOT.

JUST AS YOU FEEL THAT YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO SPEAK FOR ALL OF US.

I THINK THOSE FOLKS WHO VOTED FOR ME ALSO GAVE ME THE RIGHT TO QUESTION.

SO MY QUESTION MY MY QUESTION TO YOU AND I'LL SHUT UP AFTER THIS, HOW AM I HOW ARE HOW ARE WE ABLE TO HOLD YOU ACCOUNTABLE REAL TIME? DO YOU ONLY FEEL THAT THE ONLY WAY WE CAN HOLD YOU ACCOUNTABLE IS EVERY TWO YEARS.

AND IF YOU DO, THAT'S FAIR.

BUT CAN WE HOLD YOU ACCOUNTABLE OUTSIDE OF AN ELECTION? CERTAINLY. I BELIEVE YOU CAN.

I JUST DON'T. I WOULD I SAY THAT'S RESERVED FOR, AGAIN, LIKE TRUE.

TRUE. I ASK I'M GUILTY OF ASKING THE QUESTION.

I'M LIKE, HEY, WHO DO I SUE IF WE GO OVER IF WE VIOLATE THE CHARTER? RIGHT. WHERE ARE WE GOING? LIKE WHAT? SO THOSE ARE THINGS THERE ARE THINGS THAT ARE SO EXTREME THAT I IT DEMANDS A CHALLENGE, NO QUESTION.

I DON'T GET TO ARBITRARILY DO WHATEVER.

THAT'S NOT THE CASE. BUT YOU'LL FIND THAT'S NOT MY PERSONALITY, RIGHT? IF YOU GO BACK AND YOU HAD A CATALOG OF ALL THE CHALLENGES OF THE CHAIR'S DECISIONS, I DON'T THINK THEY'RE THAT SIGNIFICANT.

AND SO NO, I DON'T AND I DON'T WANT TO GET INTO BECAUSE I'VE LEARNED IN THIS SESSION, I DON'T WANT TO GET INTO A DEBATE OVER WHAT 11% OF THE VOTE SAID, BECAUSE THAT'S TO THE EXCLUSION OF 89% OF THE VOTE.

RIGHT. IF WE'RE IF WE'RE TAKING THE WHOLE ONE UP, 51 IN TOTALITY, I'LL JUST SAY THAT THE OFFICE OF MAYOR, IRRESPECTIVE OF IF THEY VOTED OR NOT, HAS WEIGHT TO IT HAS A LEVEL OF EXPECTANCY TO IT THAT THAT IS DIFFERENT.

RIGHT. AND SO I, I THINK IT'S FAIR TO POINT EXACTLY WHAT WE'RE LEARNING TODAY POINT TO THE PROCESS.

I DISAGREED WITH THE PERSON SITTING IN THE MAYOR'S CHAIR SAID, BUT THE PROCESS IS THEY RUN THE MEETINGS.

HERE'S HIS EMAIL ADDRESS.

HERE'S HIS PHONE NUMBER.

I AGREE. AND I DON'T EXPECT YOU TO.

I HEARD YOU EARLIER, BUT I DON'T EXPECT THAT.

I MEAN, IT'S YOU KNOW, AGAIN, OCCUPATIONAL HAZARDS.

I'LL TAKE THE HITS.

I DON'T AGREE WITH WITH THE WITH THE CHAIR DECIDED CONTACT THE CHAIR.

HERE'S MY LETTER OF RECOMMENDATION THAT THEY DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT IN THE FUTURE AND ADVOCATE FOR CHANGE.

NO QUESTION. BELIEVE IT OR NOT, WE DON'T ALL DO THAT.

AND YOU CAN SPEAK TO THAT WHEN WE GO OUT IN THE PUBLIC.

MOST OF US DEFEND WHAT THE BODY SAYS.

I UNDERSTAND I AM PARTICULAR GET HITS FROM YOU ALL THE TIME BECAUSE I DON'T I'M NOT GOING TO GO IN PUBLIC AND SAY, HEY, JUST BECAUSE I DISAGREE, THAT'S TERRIBLE.

HE SHOULDN'T HAVE DONE THAT. YOU DO GET TO RUN THE MEETINGS AND I THINK MOST OF US DO RESPECT THAT.

SO I APPRECIATE THAT AND I'M DONE.

SO ULTIMATELY, WHAT THIS NEEDS TO PRODUCE IS THE LEVEL OF POLICY OR DEFINITION OF WHAT RUNNING THE MEETING, WHAT LATITUDE YOU ARE WILLING TO GIVE AS A COUNCIL MEMBER, IF THAT MAKES SENSE.

SO NOT CARTE BLANCHE.

MAYOR, YOU HAVE ULTIMATE SAY, ULTIMATE, WHATEVER, BUT IS THERE A LAYER IN THERE THAT SAYS I AS A COUNCIL PERSON? FEEL COMFORTABLE TO THIS LEVEL, WHICH HE SORT OF DEFINED A LEVEL.

HE SAID IF IT WAS NOT EGREGIOUS, BUT WHOSE DEFINITION OF EGREGIOUS.

RIGHT. SO AND SO WHAT IS THAT LEVEL OF OF LATITUDE THAT YOU AS A COUNCIL ARE WILLING TO SAY ON PAPER IN SOME SORT OF REAL AND SUCCINCT WAY SO THAT NOT JUST YOU AS COUNCIL BUT THE NEXT COUNCIL UNDERSTANDS THE PRIVILEGE OF MAYOR, IS TO MAKE CERTAIN TYPES OF DECISIONS UNLESS IT REACHES THIS LEVEL.

AND SO WE'RE GOING TO GIVE THAT THAT LEVEL OF AUTHORITY BASED ON WHATEVER IT IS WE DECIDE IS THE RIGHT LEVEL OF AUTHORITY RATHER THAN USING ROBERT'S RULES OR WHATEVER IT IS.

IF WE HAVE A DISAGREEMENT OF OPINION VERSUS A DISAGREEMENT OF OF APPLICATION.

SO I HAVE TWO QUESTIONS.

ONE IS I'M SCANNING OVER THIS AND I'VE READ A BUNCH OF TIMES AND I'M HONESTLY LEGITIMATELY AT A LOSS TO SEE HOW THIS IS DIFFERENT THAN WHAT I UNDERSTOOD THE PROCESS GENERALLY TO BE.

SO I DON'T MAYBE YOU CAN INFORM ME WHAT THE VALUE ADD OF THIS, THESE PARTICULAR FIVE STEPS ARE TO TO WHAT I ALREADY

[04:55:08]

FIRST IS A JUMPING OFF POINT.

THIS IS JUST A PLACE FOR DISCUSSION.

DO WE THINK THAT THERE IS SOMETHING THAT COULD BE DEFINED MORE CLEARLY FOR MAYORAL RESPONSIBILITIES THAT WOULD ADD CLARITY TO THE PROCESS? SO THIS ISN'T MEANT TO BE A RUBBER STAMP.

LET'S DO THIS.

SO AND SOME OF IT IS STUFF THAT YOU THAT YOU KNOW TO BE TRUE OR YOU UNDERSTAND TO BE TRUE, BUT IT'S NOT NECESSARILY CODIFIED IN A WAY THAT SOMEBODY COULD ACTUALLY PULL OUT THE DOCUMENT AND SEE IT.

SO, AGAIN, IT'S NOT THIS ISN'T THESE ARE JUST SUGGESTIONS.

THAT IS NOT I'M NOT LEADING YOU TO DO ANYTHING.

YOU'LL SEE ON THE NEXT SLIDE.

IT'S COUNCIL. THESE WERE JUST A FEW THINGS THAT I PULLED OUT OF SOME OF MY BACKGROUND MATERIALS THAT COULD BE USEFUL.

ULTIMATELY HAVING ALL OF THAT RATHER THAN HAVING TO GO, OKAY, I'M GOING TO GO OVER HERE TO ROBERT'S RULES TO LOOK THIS THING UP.

I'M GOING TO RUN OVER HERE TO THE CHARTER TO SEE WHAT THIS SAYS, AND THEN I'M GOING TO COME OVER HERE TO THIS ADDENDUM POLICY TO TO DO THIS THING.

HOW DO WE BUILD IT WHERE IT'S AGAIN, BACK TO THIS INFORMATION PROVISION? IS THERE A ONE STOP SHOP THAT CAN CODIFY ALL OF THAT? SO IT'S EASILY RECOGNIZABLE BY NOT JUST USE THE BODY BUT BY THE PUBLIC.

THAT'S FAIR. AND I MAY I MAY HAVE I GUESS I DIDN'T REALIZE THAT THAT OKAY, THE ONE STOP SHOPPING RESONATED AND NOT HAVING TO SEARCH FOR IT AND OTHER OTHER DOCUMENTS AND COBBLE THEM TOGETHER.

I WILL.

THE SECOND POINT I WANTED TO MAKE, THOUGH, AND THIS IS WHERE MY CONCURRENCE WITH COUNCIL MCGEE IS, IS WE OUR CHARTER IS SET UP WHAT IS NORMALLY CALLED A WEAK MAYOR SYSTEM.

RIGHT? AND THAT'S NOT DENIGRATION.

THAT IS JUST SORT OF THE TERM OF ART.

AND IT LITERALLY ISN'T THAT THE MAYOR HAS A 50.0001% AUTHORITY ROLE.

IT IS THAT THERE IS SEVEN MEMBERS WHOSE CONSENSUS IS THE THE GOVERNING WILL AND.

AS LONG AS THAT'S IN THE TERM, UNLESS WE WANT TO THROW IT TO THE CITY AND HAVE THE CITIZENS CHANGE.

HOW HOW WHAT THE RELATIVE ROLES OF THE COUNCIL IS GREAT.

LET'S HAVE A STAKEHOLDER MEETING.

LET'S LET THE CITIZENS CHANGE THE FORM OF GOVERNMENTS FROM FROM A WEAK TO A STRONG OR LIKE THEY HAVE IN PHILADELPHIA AND OTHER PLACES.

BUT THAT'S GREAT.

LET THE CITIZENS DECIDE.

BUT WHATEVER 20 OR 30 YEARS AGO, WHEN THIS IS OR WHENEVER, I DON'T REMEMBER WHEN THAT PARTICULAR CHARTER CHANGE WAS PUT IN, THEY THEY MADE THAT DECISION AND WE'VE RUN WITH IT SINCE.

SO IT IS.

IT IS NOT. THERE'S A.

THERE IS NOT A SINGLE INDIVIDUAL THAT SETS POLICY AND PROCEDURE DICTATES IT IS THE BODY THAT SETS POLICY AND PROCEDURE DICTATES, AND IT IS THE EFFICIENCY OF HAVING ONE CHAIR THAT WE'RE SEEKING THAT THAT HURTS THE CATS TO SOME DEGREE, NOT NOT THE POLICY SETTING THINGS.

AND SO IF THERE ARE POLICY QUESTIONS WHERE WE NEED TO HAVE WE WISH TO HAVE MORE DISCUSSION, WE WANT TO FOLLOW UP MORE, WE WANT TO DO THIS, THAT OR THE OTHER THING.

THEN IF THERE IS A CONSENSUS OF A MAJORITY OF COUNCIL, THEN AS COUNCILOR MCGEE SAID, HONESTLY SHORTER AND BETTER THAN I AM.

BECAUSE REMEMBER, I'M A LONG TALKER.

I'VE ADMITTED TO THAT. THEN, THEN, THEN I CAN'T.

I JUST I STRONGLY DISAGREE WITH THIS CONCEPT OF 50.001% AUTHORITY, THAT THAT IS NOT THE SYSTEM WE HAVE.

WELL, LET ME LET ME JUST LET ME PAUSE IT TO YOU THAT EVERY ONE OF YOU HAS A VOTE.

YOU ALL HAVE AN EQUAL VOTE ON THIS COUNCIL, RIGHT? THERE'S SEVEN VOTES.

EVERYBODY GETS TO VOTE. THERE'S NOT A 0.1%.

THERE'S NOT AN ADVANTAGE IN THAT SYSTEM.

HOWEVER, THERE IS A MAYOR THAT IS PUT IN CHARGE OF RUNNING A MEETING.

THAT IS HIS CHARGE. RIGHT.

AND THAT IS THERE'S NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT.

AND SO IN THAT REGARD, THERE IS AN ELEVATION OF THAT POSITION FOR THAT SPECIFIC PURPOSE OF RUNNING A MEETING, REPRESENTING THE CITY, WHATEVER ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE THAT ARE ITEMIZED, CHARTER ORDINANCE, WHATEVER.

AND SO I THINK THE QUESTION BECOMES.

YOU CAN'T HAVE SOMEONE RUN A MEETING WHO HAS NO AUTHORITY TO RUN A MEETING.

THERE HAVE TO BE CHECKS AND BALANCES.

AND SO WHAT IS THE LAYER OF ASSURANCE THAT THAT HE IS GOING TO RUN THE MEETING IN A WAY THAT THE COUNCIL IS AGREEABLE TO THAT CAN KEEP THE MEETINGS MOVING RATHER THAN HAVING THESE PROCEDURAL QUESTIONS EVERY SINGLE TIME WE WE TAKE AN ITEM TO TO, YOU SEE.

SO THERE HAS TO BE SOME LEVEL OF BALANCE AND UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT HIS WHAT YOUR COMFORT LEVEL IS THAT SAYS WE CAN PROCEED IN THIS WAY UNTIL

[05:00:10]

YEAH, THAT'S THAT'S THE NARRATIVE THAT I'M GOING TO ALSO PUSH BACK ON.

IT'S NOT EVERY SINGLE TIME.

I'M NOT SAYING AND I APPRECIATE THAT BUT IT GOES TO THE THE SORT OF MAYBE CONSENSUS THAT YOU YOU BROUGHT IN DRAWING US ALL TOGETHER.

IT'S JUST NOT THERE.

THERE ARE RARE TIMES AND I WON'T I HAVEN'T COUNTED STATISTICS, SO I'M NOT GOING TO JUMP IN AND SAY THIS, MARK VERSUS CHRIS VERSUS GERARD.

IN TERMS OF THE NUMBER OF OBJECTIONS OR POINTS OF ORDER OR POINTS OF PROCEDURE ANYTIME WE GET INTO ROBERT'S RULES.

BUT THE ADVANTAGE OF THE FACT THAT WE DEFAULT TO ROBERT'S RULES IS THIS IS TRIED AND TESTED AND WORKED OUT BY THESE COMMITTEES.

AND I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT VERSION OF ROBERT'S RULES WE USE, BUT THEY'RE VERSIONED AND THEY'RE REVISED AND WE FALL BACK ON THEM BECAUSE IT IS NOT JUST AN AMERICAN STANDARD, BUT A SORT OF SEMI-WESTERN STANDARD FOR HOW TO CONDUCT OURSELVES.

AND TIME AND AGAIN FOR THESE KINDS OF CIRCUMSTANCES, WE'RE FOLLOWING THOSE PROCEDURES.

AND SO YOU CAN GET INTO HOW EFFICIENT SHOULD WE DO SOMETHING THAT MAYBE IS MORE STREAMLINED AND YES, YOU KNOW, GOOD DECORUM, GOOD COLLEGIALITY WILL SAY, YOU KNOW, I'M JUST GOING TO BITE MY TONGUE, TAP MY FOOT DOODLE ON MY NOTEPAD WHEN, YOU KNOW, RATHER THAN MAKE A COMMENT.

AND BUT WE THE BODY DOES HAVE THAT THAT SYSTEM.

AND I JUST CAN'T GET BEHIND THIS NOTION THAT THAT WE WE ABROGATE OUR OUR ELECTORAL RIGHTS.

YEAH, I'LL JUST LEAVE IT THERE.

VICKI. OH, YOU KNOW, FOR THE MOST PART, I'M COMFORTABLE.

HOLIDAY IS WITH THE FLOW.

AND I CAN SAY THAT THE THING THAT STICKS WITH ME AND I USUALLY SPEAK UP IN REGARDS TO THE NEGATIVE EMOTIONS BECAUSE I WANT US TO ALWAYS GO FORWARD.

AND SO IF THERE IS SOMEONE THAT IS NOT IN AGREEMENT, THE MOTION THEN DOES NOT BECOME THE DISAGREEMENT.

THE MOTION IS ON THE FLOOR AND IT'S IN FRONT OF US.

AND THEN THAT'S OUR JOB TO VOTE IT DOWN.

WE DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH I MEAN, YOU KNOW, OR IN DISAGREEMENT WITH I DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH IT, BUT THAT IS REALLY KEEPS THE THE LEVEL OF UNDERSTANDING THERE BECAUSE WE'VE HAD OUR DISCUSSION.

AND IF YOU PUT THE MOTION IN AS NEGATIVE, THE DISCUSSION TURNS AROUND AND WE'RE SITTING THERE AND WE'RE SAYING, OKAY, SO IF WE AGREE, WE NEED TO HIT NO.

AND IF WE DON'T AGREE, WE NEED TO HIT YES.

AND THAT GETS A BIT CONFUSING RATHER THAN JUST PUTTING WHAT WE SEE RIGHT UP THERE IN FRONT OF US AND THEN DISCUSSING IT AND THEN SAYING NO, WHEN IT'S TIME TO SAY NO AND IT NEVER FAILS.

MAYOR, RESPECTFULLY, JUST OBSERVING THAT, THE MAYOR WILL SAY, WELL, WE DON'T NEED TO DO THIS.

I'M GOING TO VOTE THAT WE'RE NOT GOING TO DO THIS AND I'M GOING TO PUT THE MOTION IN AND WE CANNOT DO THIS.

AND WE JUST SIT THERE.

IT'S HAPPENED BEFORE.

SO THAT FAILED.

WELL, THEN LET'S PUT THE MOTION BACK OUT THERE THE WAY IT IS SEEN.

AND NOW LET'S GO AHEAD AND HAVE THIS DISCUSSION, ANSWER THE QUESTIONS.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? AND JUST VOTE ON IT THE WAY THAT WE UNDERSTAND IT, I WOULD APPRECIATE IT IF WE WOULD ADOPT THAT.

I DO UNDERSTAND THAT MACK IS DEAD.

WELL, THAT'S KIND OF LIKE OUR KIND OF SORT OF ADOPTED PRACTICE.

WE SHOULDN'T DO IT THAT WAY, BUT WE HAVE DONE IT THAT WAY.

I LIKE TO SEE US TO MOVE TO THE POSITIVE MOTION, THE MOTION THAT SOMEONE PUT IN, AND IT'S SUPPOSED TO MAKE US GO FORWARD OR BACKWARD.

BUT WHATEVER WE SEE, IT'LL GIVE US A CHANCE TO GO AND HAVE A FULL DISCUSSION ON THAT RATHER THAN, LIKE I SAID, NO, WE DON'T WANT TO DO THAT MOTION ON THE FLOOR.

NO, WE HAVEN'T DISCUSSED IT.

SO CAN WE AGREE ON THAT? CAN WE CAN WE HAVE A CONVERSATION ON THAT LITTLE PART? THAT'S JUST A LITTLE BITTY, TINY PART AND IT'S JUST PROCESS.

LET ME MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.

OKAY. WHAT I'M HEARING YOU SAY IS THAT AND THIS IS THE EXAMPLE THAT WAS GIVEN, SO I'M JUST GOING TO USE IT AS AN EXAMPLE.

AND THAT WAS THE PROP B ORDINANCE THAT WE WERE VOTING ON.

THE MOTION WAS MADE TO DENY IT.

YES. AND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS AND I THINK I THINK YOU RAISED THE QUESTION OF, HEY, DO MOTIONS HAVE TO BE MADE IN A FAVORABLE SENSE?

[05:05:06]

THE MOTIONS SHOULD BE PUT MORE FROM A IF YOU'RE IN FAVOR AND THEN IF IF YOU DENY IT, YOU DENY IT.

SO HELP ME.

IS THAT IS THAT RIGHT? IS GO AHEAD.

YOU'RE LOOKING AT SOMETHING I CAN TELL ROBERT'S RULES TEN, TEN.

SECTION 12.

IT'S PREFERABLE TO AVOID A MOTION CONTAINING A NEGATIVE STATEMENT.

EVEN IN CASES WHERE THE EFFECT OF MOTION IS PROPOSED.

SOMETHING TO BE DONE. SINCE MEMBERS MAY BECOME CONFUSED AS TO THE EFFECT OF THE VOTING OR AGAINST THE MOTION.

SO CONCEPTUALLY, THE RULES SAY STRONGLY FAVORED MOTIONS IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

OUR PRACTICE, THOUGH, IS AND ROBERT'S RULES ALLOWS FOR THIS OUR PRACTICE CAN SUPERSEDE THE RULES.

AND WE HAVE ON OCCASION DONE MOTIONS TO DENY.

THAT'S NOT UNUSUAL FOR OUR CITY COUNCIL OR PLANNING ZONING OR.

RIGHT. YEAH.

OKAY. ALL RIGHT. SO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, WHAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR VICKI IS TO.

BECAUSE ROBERT'S RULES OF ORDER GIVES SOME FLEXIBILITY.

YOU'RE SAYING, HEY, CAN WE AS A BODY? BUILD ON THAT FLEXIBILITY TO SAY, HEY, CAN WE AGREE THAT THE MOTION BEFORE THE COUNCIL WILL BE AN AFFIRMATIVE MOTION TO APPROVE? BUT YET IF YOU OBVIOUSLY IF FOUR PEOPLE DON'T APPROVE OF IT, IT'S DENIED AND IT FAILS.

INSTEAD OF SAYING MAKE A MOTION TO THAT.

AND IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE ASKING? THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I'M ASKING.

THANK YOU FOR UNDERSTANDING THAT.

CAN I SPEAK TO THAT? YEAH. SPEAK TO THAT. THAT WAS MY MOTION.

YOU? SORRY.

I THINK THAT WAS HIS FIRST. JUST KIDDING.

IT WAS MY FIRST MOTION.

AND. AND I DIDN'T.

I WAS UNCOMFORTABLE THE WAY I MADE THAT MOTION.

AND I WAS UNCOMFORTABLE AT THE MOMENT I MADE THAT MOTION.

BUT IT WAS MY INTENT TO GET THE MOTION ON THE FLOOR.

TO GET A VOTE. I ASKED THE MAYOR IF HE WAS LOOKING FOR A MOTION.

HE SAID YES AND I WANTED TO GET IT ON THE FLOOR IN MY FAVOR.

I WANTED IT TO GO MY WAY.

SO THAT'S WHY I DID THAT.

I COMPLETELY AGREE THAT THAT'S NOT THAT'S NOT THE WAY I WOULD LIKE TO DO IT IN THE FUTURE, BECAUSE IN THAT INSTANCE, A VOTE FOR WAS A VOTE AGAINST PROPOSITION B.

YES, I COULD NOT AGREE MORE.

I COULD NOT AGREE MORE.

BUT AT THAT MOMENT THAT'S WHAT I HAD.

AND I AND I TOOK WITH WHAT I HAD WHEN I HAD IT.

PERIOD NOW, BEFORE BEFORE I LEAVE, THAT I WOULD WHEN I TOOK MUNICIPAL MANAGEMENT AT NORTH TEXAS, WE I UNDERSTOOD THERE WERE TWO TERMS OF TYPES OF MUNICIPAL GOVERNMENT.

STRONG MAYOR.

LIKE CHICAGO AND NEW YORK AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

AND MAYOR COUNCIL FOR I HAVE I NEVER WAS I WAS NEVER FAMILIAR WITH THE TERM WEEKS LATER.

I KNOW I KNOW IT'S THE SAME.

I DON'T CARE FOR THAT TERM.

I DON'T I DON'T LIKE THAT TERM.

MAYOR, MANAGER, COUNCIL MANAGER.

IS THAT. IS THAT CORRECT.

MANAGER. COUNCIL, CITY MANAGER, COUNCIL FORM OF GOVERNMENT OR MAYOR COUNCIL.

IT'S USUALLY CITY MANAGER.

COUNCIL BECAUSE. BECAUSE USUALLY WHEN IT'S A STRONG MAYOR, THERE'S NO CITY MANAGER BUT NOT WEAK MAYOR.

NO, IT'S PUNY.

COUNCIL. YEAH.

I'D LIKE TO HEAR FROM THE REST OF THEM BECAUSE WE HAVE ALL OF THEM.

WELL, NO, I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE STRONG MAYOR PEOPLE DON'T LIKE THE WORD WEAK.

THAT'S NOT ABOUT WHAT THE MAYOR DOES AT THE STRONG MAYOR IS THEY RUN THE CITY.

THEY ARE THE CITY MANAGER. THEY ARE THE CITY MANAGER.

SO THAT'S REALLY AND SO I WANT TO I JUST WANT TO TALK ABOUT JUST REAL BRIEFLY THE WHOLE DISCUSSION WE'VE HAD, WHICH SOUNDS LIKE WE GOT ONE THING ON THE BOARD ABOUT A POSITIVE MOTION.

SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE TRYING TO DISCUSS HOW DO WE HOW DO WE ADDRESS IF SOMETHING IS BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PROCESS IN THE MEETING, WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT SUBSTANCE.

WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT AN AGREEMENT OF POLICY.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A PROCESS.

SO HOW DO WE ADDRESS IF THERE'S A PROCESS IN THE MEETING THAT THE MAYOR'S DECISION ON THE PROCESS THAT IS MADE, HE'S BROUGHT UP, HEY, SORT OF A DELINEATION BETWEEN IF IT'S EGREGIOUS OR NOT? YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO FLUSH THAT OUT A LITTLE BIT MORE, BUT THAT IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT ISN'T AGREED UPON AND I THINK, HONESTLY, THIS IS JUST ME.

I THINK BASED UPON OUR PREVIOUS CONVERSATIONS AND THE RESULTS OF YOUR THINGS THAT WE'VE SEEN IS THAT THIS IS A GREAT EXAMPLE OF THE THINGS THAT ARE IMPACTING

[05:10:02]

I MEAN, THE THING WE'RE ACTUALLY TALKING ABOUT, ABOUT, WELL, HOW DO WE IF THE DECISION IS MADE ON PROCESS AND THIS AND THAT.

BUT IT'S WHAT I THINK IS PERCOLATING BASED UPON YOUR SLIDES THAT HAS CONTRIBUTED SOME TO THE LEVEL OR THE WORDING OF THE DISCUSSION, THE ACTUAL WORDS OF THE DISCUSSION.

I MEAN, YOU POINTED OUT A, I WOULD HAVE SAID THIS DIFFERENTLY.

I MEAN, HONESTLY, THE WORD PUSHBACK TO ME, I MEAN, I'VE HAD TO REALLY WORK ON THAT NOT BEING A TRIGGER WORD.

IT'S LIKE PUSHBACK MEANS, HEY, YOU KNOW, WAIT A MINUTE.

INSTEAD OF, YOU KNOW, WHAT? CAN I SHARE YOU MY THOUGHTS OR THAT'S NOT A CRITICISM.

THAT'S JUST WHEN I HEAR THAT.

YEAH, WHEN I HEAR THAT, IT'S LIKE, OH, YOU'RE PUSHING BACK.

OKAY, WELL, I DON'T KNOW IF I'M PUSHING ON YOU, YOU KNOW, I DON'T, YOU KNOW, BUT THAT'S JUST ME.

SO I THINK THAT YOU CAN SEE SOME OF WHAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS IS HOW IT TRANSLATES INTO THESE SURFACE OR THESE SORT OF EXTERNAL, I'M GOING TO SAY EXTERNAL KIND OF ISSUES.

I MEAN, THERE'S TIMES WHEN THAT HAS HAPPENED.

THERE'S BEEN THERE'S BEEN A THERE'S BEEN SOMEBODY SAYING, HEY, THIS PROCESS.

AND I'VE SAID, OKAY, YEAH, I'D LIKE TO DO THE PROCESS DIFFERENTLY.

AND THAT'S CERTAINLY NOTHING PERSONAL OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

BUT I THINK IT'S FIRST OF ALL, IT DOESN'T HAPPEN THAT OFTEN.

I MEAN, IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S REALLY NOT COMMONPLACE.

SO I WOULD I WOULD BE SUPPORTIVE OF TRYING TO FIND SOMETHING THAT WORKS FOR EVERYONE.

THE CHAIR IS CERTAINLY IMPORTANT.

I MEAN, THEY'RE RUNNING THE MEETINGS AND AND I KNOW THE MAYOR ONLY HAS ONE VOTE.

BUT LOOK, I THINK IF YOU ASK ANYBODY IN THE CITY WHEN THEY'RE VOTING FOR MAYOR, IT'S IT'S A DIFFERENT KIND OF IT'S NOT SAYING THEY'RE BETTER.

IT'S JUST THEY'RE THE THEY ARE SEEN TO BE THE THE SPOKESMAN OF THE CITY AND ALL THESE DIFFERENT VARIOUS THINGS.

IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THEY HAVE MORE POWER AT THE DAIS OR THAT SOMEHOW THEY HAVE MORE OF A.

BUT IT DOES MEAN THAT, OKAY, WE'VE ELEVATED THIS PERSON TO BE THE LEADER OF THE MEETINGS AND TO BE THE SPOKESMAN OF THE CITY.

AND AND I THINK THAT'S I MEAN, IT'S IMPORTANT, AS YOU SAID, TO RESPECT THE SEAT.

SO I MEAN, I THINK I THINK AS WE RESOLVE SOME OF THOSE UNDERLYING ISSUES AND BEGIN TO KIND OF FLUSH THOSE OUT, SOME OF THESE THINGS WE CAN MAKE WE CAN PUT BOUNDARIES AROUND THEM AND GUARDRAILS, I THINK THEY WILL NATURALLY KIND OF.

FIND THEIR PLACE.

SO THAT'S JUST SORT OF MY I LIKE TO SORT OF UNDERSTAND WHY THINGS ARE HAPPENING.

I MEAN, WE CAN WE CAN FIX IT.

WE CAN FIND SOMETHING. BUT IF WE DON'T SOLVE OR IF WE DON'T TRY TO WORK ON THE THINGS THAT ARE UNDERNEATH, AGAIN, IT'S IT'S BUT AS FAR AS THE MOTION TO DENY, IT DOESN'T MATTER TO ME.

I MEAN, I'M OKAY WITH BECAUSE IT IS A LITTLE CONFUSING SOMETIMES BUT WE HAVE DONE IT IN THE PAST LIKE THAT.

SO IF WE WANT TO DO SOMETHING TO MAKE IT.

YEAH. WELL, I THINK WHEN YOU PUT IN A MOTION TO DENY, YOU DON'T GIVE US A CHANCE TO REALLY WORK THROUGH IT LIKE THAT.

I MEAN, WE, WE, WE, WE WE HAVE QUESTIONS.

AND THEN WE HAVE A DISCUSSION.

THEN WE MAKE A DECISION.

LIKE YOU ADMITTEDLY SAID, I WAS VOTING FOR WHAT I WAS PUTTING OUT THERE, WHAT I THINK.

AND SO IF WE HAD GONE THROUGH THAT WAS JUST USING THIS PARTICULAR PROCESS OF THINGS THAT HAPPENED AT THIS TIME, IF HE WOULD HAVE JUST READ OUT WHAT IT WAS, THEN WE WOULD HAVE HAD OUR DISCUSSION AND THEN WE COULD JUST SAY, NO, YOU KNOW, DO YOU THINK THE VOTE WOULD HAVE GONE ANY OTHER WAY HAD THE MOTION BEEN MADE? OTHERWISE, IT WOULDN'T HAVE GONE ANY OTHER WAY BECAUSE WE HAD ALREADY HAD.

WE HAD ALREADY MADE A DECISION ALREADY.

YOU KNOW, WE COME IN.

NO, NO, NO, WE HAVEN'T. WE HAVEN'T MADE WE DECISION TO TAKE IT OUT.

WELL, YEAH, BUT WE HAVE TO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO DISCUSS IT.

WE HAVE TO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO ASK QUESTIONS.

THAT'S WHY YOU GO THROUGH THAT PROCESS EMOTIONALLY, THIS TIME FOR QUESTION TIME, TO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO DISCUSS A MOTION.

I DON'T BELIEVE WE REALLY HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO.

WE YES, I HAVE THAT.

I MEAN, I KNOW I WE TALKED ABOUT IT KIND OF COMPLAINING ABOUT IT.

EVERYBODY SAYS SOMETHING EXCEPT ONE PERSON.

ME. IRA YEAH, WE DISCUSSED IT.

BUT IN ANY CASE, YOU KNOW, THAT'S, THAT'S I THINK WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WE COULD CONSIDER BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I JUST WANTED TO LAY THAT OUT THERE FOR TO TALK ABOUT. SO WHAT I HEARD IN ALL THIS IS THAT THE MAYOR HAS ASKED ME TO RESPECT THE FACT THAT HE'S THE MAYOR AND TO BE MORE JUDICIOUS WITH APPEALING THE RULE OF THE RULING OF THE CHAIR. IS THAT CORRECT? YES, THAT'S CORRECT.

THERE YOU GO. I'LL AGREE TO DO THAT.

I APPRECIATE THAT.

LIKE YOU THINK ABOUT.

OKAY. SO FIRST OF ALL, LET'S LET'S ALSO REMEMBER THAT IF WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT POLICIES, WE'RE GOING TO PUT POLICIES IN PLACE.

[05:15:03]

IT'S REALLY ABOUT THE PROCESS, THE SYSTEM ITSELF.

RIGHT. SO REMOVING THAT.

BUT THE OTHER PART IS IF IF THE COUNCIL AND I'M NOT SAYING YOU SHOULD, YOU ARE EXPECTED TO BE SHEEP OR FOLLOWERS OR WHATEVER, YOU ARE IN YOUR SEATS FOR A REASON.

BUT IF THE COUNCIL RESPECTS NO AUTHORITY OF THE MAYOR.

WHAT'S THE PERCEPTION THAT THAT PUTS OUT? RIGHT. AND IF HE'S SUPPOSED TO STAND UP AND BE THE SPOKESPERSON IS SUPPOSED TO REPRESENT THE VIEWS OF THE COUNCIL AND WHAT THEY'VE DECIDED, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A PERCEPTION THAT THAT TRANSCENDS JUST THE DIOCESE WHEN IT LOOKS AS THOUGH HE'S BEING UNDERMINED AT EVERY MOVE.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT'S NOT YOUR RIGHT AND YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO TO TO PUSH BACK TO, YOU KNOW, OR TO TRIGGER YOU TO TAKE IT.

YOU KNOW, WHEN THERE IS SOMETHING THAT IS SUBSTANTIVE AND REAL, BUT IT SHOULD NOT BE WEAPONIZED AS A WAY TO TO SORT OF MAKE IT MORE FRUSTRATING OR MORE.

YOU SEE WHAT I'M GETTING.

I'M NOT 2 OR 3 TIMES.

IF IF PEOPLE FELT LIKE I WEAPONIZED IT, I APOLOGIZE.

THAT WAS CERTAINLY NOT MY INTENT.

IT WAS JUST TO SHOW WE SHOULD DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

THAT WAS ALL. SO POLICY.

YEAH, A COUPLE OF THINGS.

FIRST OF ALL, ON THE MOTION MUST ALWAYS DEPOSIT.

I DON'T KNOW. I MEAN, TO BE HONEST, WHATEVER YOU WANT, YOU KNOW, IT DOESN'T.

IT MAKES IT SLIGHTLY CLEARER TO THE PUBLIC, YOU KNOW, INSTEAD OF HAVING TO DO, LIKE, REVERSE JUJITSU IN YOUR BRAIN, LIKE, NO MEANS YES.

YEAH. I MEAN, I GET THE COURTESY OF THAT.

I HAVE A LOT OF HEARTBURN ABOUT IT EITHER WAY, IF YOU ALL WANT TO DO IT, I'M FINE.

THE SECOND POINT I WANT TO MAKE, I WOULD WAGER THAT CERTAINLY WITH CHRIS HAVING STEPPED OUT, THAT I'M THE PERSON IN THE ROOM NOW WITH OTHER THAN THE MAYOR HIMSELF, WITH THE MOST APPRECIATION FOR THE FACT THAT YOU WON THE ELECTION, I UNDERSTAND IT INTIMATELY.

WELL, NEIGHBORHOOD BY NEIGHBORHOOD.

I TOTALLY GOT THAT.

THAT HASN'T BEEN AND THAT THERE ARE, YOU KNOW, RIGHTS AND PRIVILEGES AND RESPONSIBILITIES ACCORDINGLY.

SO DID WE ALL.

EVERYBODY HERE HAS WON THEIR ELECTION.

AND THE QUESTION OF WHEN IS IT EGREGIOUS? BECAUSE I ABSOLUTELY AGREE.

WHEN YOU WERE CHAIRING THE MEETING, YOU GOT TO CHAIR THE MEETING.

BUT, YOU KNOW, WHEN IS IT EGREGIOUS? FOR ME SO FAR.

ANYWAY. THE THING THAT HAS ANIMATED ME IS IF.

THE RULING OF THE CHAIR TAKES AWAY A FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT THAT I HAVE AS A MEMBER OF THE BODY.

FOR INSTANCE, TO AMEND A MOTION.

TO DELIBERATE AND AMEND AN INDIVIDUAL ITEM.

THAT'S A FUNDAMENTAL PROCESS.

YOU DON'T ALLOW THAT, RIGHT? YOU'RE NOT ALLOWING THAT RIGHT TO A QUARTER OF THE CITY.

SO THAT'S EGREGIOUS TO ME.

YOU MAY NOT FEEL THAT WAY. I MEAN, REASONABLE PEOPLE CAN DISAGREE.

BUT WHAT'S EGREGIOUS, RIGHT. WE CONSCIOUSLY SAID WE DIDN'T DEFINE THAT.

BUT ANYWAY, THAT'S JUST MY COUPLE OF CENTS WORTH.

AND THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF AGE DISCRIMINATION.

JOE, BACK ME UP ON THIS.

AFTER A CERTAIN POINT IN LIFE, YOU NEED MORE BATHROOM BREAKS.

DO YOU AGREE? I COULD NOT AGREE MORE.

YOU KNOW, I'D LOVE THAT.

I'D LOVE IT IF PEOPLE WOULD TALK LESS SO WE CAN HAVE BREAKS.

I'M ALL IN. I TRULY APPROVE OF THIS MEETING, BUT.

BUT TRUE. IT'S JUST.

IT'S JUST. IT'S JUST I.

BUT I WANT TO AGREE, RIGHT? I DON'T WANT TO USURP ANYONE'S VOTE.

I DON'T WANT TO GET INTO WHO'S THE BIGGEST RIGHT.

WE ALL REPRESENT 151,000 PEOPLE STAY THERE.

RIGHT. LIKE 100% OF THE PEOPLE ARE REPRESENTED AT THE DAIS.

GREAT. RIGHT.

AND AND BUT THE PROBLEM IS THE DEVIL'S IN THE DETAILS, RIGHT? SO THE MAYOR PRO TEM SPEAKS ON A, HE'S TALKING ABOUT POLICY ISSUES AND HIS ENTIRE STATEMENT.

AND I NEVER SAID I HAVE POLICY 50 ZERO ZERO 1%.

RIGHT. SO SO THAT'S AN IMMEDIATE LIKE EVERYONE SHOULD CORRECT THAT AND SAY NO, NO, NO, THAT'S NOT WHAT WAS BEING DISCUSSED.

AND AND SO THAT'S THE THING, RIGHT? IT'S LIKE WE GOT TO GET DOWN INTO, UNFORTUNATELY, THE DETAILS ON THIS TO SAY HE'S NOT TALKING ABOUT HE HAS 50 001 PERCENT POLICY THAT YOU'RE WRONG AND YOUR AND YOUR DISCUSSION POINTS REDIRECT THAT TO THESE INDIVIDUAL ON OCCASION DECISION CHAIR OF THE MEETING DECISIONS AND THEN I ABSOLUTELY TAKE YOUR POINT.

COUNCILMEMBER MATTER. BUT THE PROBLEM IS YOU HAVE TO PUT IT IN CONTEXT.

AND YOU SAW THAT TODAY.

AND I FIGURED IT OUT WHEN? WHEN BECAUSE I HEAR EVERYTHING, I PROCESS THROUGH IT A MILLION TIMES IN MY MIND TO FIND IT, I GOT TO FIND THE ANSWER.

AND I BELIEVE THE ANSWER TO BE COUNCIL MEMBER MCGEE.

[05:20:07]

RIGHT. SO IT'S NOT IT'S NOT HE'S WRONG.

HE'S HE'S PROBABLY JUST PROCESSING IT DIFFERENTLY.

SO WHEN I'M SITTING IN THE MEETING AND MAYOR PRO TEM HAS A I MEAN LITERALLY THE LAST I DIDN'T TIME IT BUT THE LAST QUESTION PROBABLY WENT FOUR MINUTES, FIVE MINUTES I THINK COUNCIL MEMBER AND I DON'T KNOW, WE HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT THIS.

I THINK COUNCIL MEMBER MCGEE DISCOUNTS THE FIVE MINUTE QUESTION AND FOCUSES ON THE 1 OR 2 MINUTE ANSWER OR DISCUSSION AFTERWARDS.

RIGHT? SO ERGO, MAYOR PRO TEM IS ONLY TALKING TWO MINUTES, WHEREAS COUNCILMEMBER WATTS ANSWER MAY BE FOUR MINUTES WITH A ONE MINUTE QUESTION.

AND SO THAT'S FIVE MINUTES TOTAL VERSUS 7 OR 8.

AND IN MY MIND, I'M TRACKING ALL THESE THINGS.

HOW LONG HAVE YOU HAD THE FOR IN ITS TOTALITY VERSUS HOW PRODUCTIVE HAVE YOU BEEN WITH THAT TIME? NO DIFFERENT THAN CONGRESS.

YOU GET FIVE MINUTES WHETHER THEY ANSWER YOUR QUESTION OR NOT, YOU KNOW, SO SO IT'S THAT'S SO IT'S NOT A DISAGREEMENT ON.

HE'S NOT IGNORING THINGS.

HE'S LISTENING INTENTLY AND JUST CATEGORIZING THEM DIFFERENTLY POTENTIALLY.

I DON'T KNOW. WE HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT IT.

BUT ULTIMATELY, WHEN IT COMES TO THE CHAIR DECISIONS, I JUST ASK THAT WE AND MAYBE THAT'S A QUESTION TO YOUR POINT ABOUT EXPLAINING THAT, BUT IN THE INSTANCE OF COUNCIL MEMBER HOLLAND'S MOTION, UNDERSTAND, I'M PASSIONATE ABOUT STAFF.

I CAN SLEEP IN IF I NEED TO.

THEY'RE UP AT COUNCIL UNTIL 11 OR 12:00 AT NIGHT.

THEY GOT TO COME BACK AT EIGHT.

THERE'S NO SLEEPING IN, RIGHT, AT LEAST.

AND SO.

TO THAT END, I'LL TAKE ANY MOTION I CAN TO GET US THROUGH THE THREE HOURS WE JUST SPENT ON SOMETHING TO GET US TO THE NEXT THE REST OF OUR.

THAT WAS ITEM ONE ON THE AGENDA.

WE'D DONE THE PLEDGE PROCLAMATIONS THREE HOURS ON ONE THING.

WE HAD THE REST OF OUR AGENDA TO GO.

I'LL TAKE ANYTHING TO GET US GOING.

RIGHT. WE GOT TO GO.

AND SO, SIMILARLY, IF I'M MAKING A DECISION CALLING BALLS AND STRIKES, IT HAS TO HAVE THAT ENTIRE CONTEXT.

AND THAT'S, I THINK, WHAT'S MISSING.

AND I DON'T KNOW HOW TO COMMUNICATE THAT IN THE LIVE IN THE MEETING.

I CAN'T RECAP EVERYTHING THAT'S LED US UP TO THAT.

AND I DON'T KNOW HOW TO SHORTLY TRUNCATE THAT.

I DON'T KNOW HOW TO GIVE AN INDICATION OF EVERYTHING THAT'S IN MY MIND.

IT GOES BACK TO TRUST, RIGHT? AND IT GOES BACK TO I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU CALLED IT.

I DIDN'T GET THE RIGHT DOWN THE NAME.

BUT YOU SAID THE COUNCIL GETS TO MAKE BAD DECISIONS, RIGHT? SOMETHING LIKE THAT. RIGHT. HAS THE RIGHT TO DO DUMB.

RIGHT. SO DOES DOES THE MAYOR NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO DO DUMB IS MY QUESTION TO THE GROUP.

RIGHT. IF IT'S IF IT'S A CHAIR DECISION CALLING BALLS AND STRIKES.

NOT POLICY HOW THE MEETING FLOWS.

IF YOU WANT TO BENEFIT FROM THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO DUMB.

LET ME BE DUMB. BUMPER STICKER.

HERE IS WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY THOUGH, OF SAYING THERE WERE THREE OTHER DUMMIES WITH ME.

RIGHT. YES. BUT YOU AS THE MAYOR ARE HELD TO A DIFFERENT STANDARD BECAUSE IF YOU DO DUMB, YOU'RE THE ONLY GUY WHO DID DUMB.

AND THEIR RECOURSE IS TO POINT OUT, MAYOR, YOU DID DUMB AND WE NEED TO GO BACK OR WE NEED TO RECONSIDER.

SO IT'S JUST THERE'S A THERE'S A DIFFERENT LITMUS TEST.

BUT WHAT I HEAR YOU SAYING.

WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT. LET'S STOP THERE.

THERE'S A DIFFERENT LITMUS TEST.

COUNCIL MEMBER MAYOR PRO TEM, DO YOU AGREE THAT THERE'S A DIFFERENT LITMUS TEST FOR THIS SEAT VERSUS YOURS? YOU'RE THE CHAIR.

YES OR NO? NO. YOU RUN THE MEETING.

OKAY, SO THAT'S NOT WHAT I HEARD BEFORE.

WHAT I HEARD WAS BEFORE WAS WE'RE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER.

AND YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? LIKE, MAYBE I'M OVERLY SENSITIVE, BUT I.

AND I HEARD COUNCILOR MAYOR PRO TEM, I HEARD COUNCILMAN MELTZER SAY THE SAME TO A DEGREE, BUT THAT THAT'S IF WE CAN IF WE CAN AGREE THERE.

RIGHT. BECAUSE THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING.

ULTIMATELY, I'M SAYING TO GET IN THE SEAT AS HARD AS HECK.

RIGHT. AND I DON'T.

AND ALL SEATS ARE HARD, RIGHT? I'VE RAN IN DISTRICT ONE.

I'VE RUN AND I UNDERSTAND THE DYNAMICS, BUT I'M TRYING TO TELL YOU IT IS UNIQUELY DIFFERENT IN THIS SEAT.

AND THERE'S NO WAY TO CONVEY THAT OTHER THAN YOU GOT TO TRY IT.

AND YOU'LL SEE, YOU KNOW, AND BUT I WISH I COULD QUANTIFY IT.

MAYBE MAYOR, MAYOR, FORMER MAYOR WATTS IS GOOD AT WORDS, SO MAYBE HE CAN ARTICULATE IT BETTER.

BUT IT'S HARD TO PUT IT IN FOR ME.

IT'S HARD FOR ME TO SAY.

BUT I JUST THAT'S ALL I WANT IS TO SAY, CERTAINLY NO MORE POWER, NO EXTRA VOTE, NO VETO POWER, NO NOTHING.

JUST UNDERSTAND THAT WHEN WE SAY, YEAH, WHEN WE BORROW $200 MILLION, THERE'S ONE PERSON THAT HAS TO GO IN AND SIGN THOSE

[05:25:05]

WHEN WE GO TO ORDINANCES THAT WE PASS, THERE'S ONE PERSON THAT HAS TO SIGN THOSE THINGS.

AND SO THERE'S JUST THERE IS A AND THAT'S WHERE I GET TO THE 50 0.001.

IT'S JUST A FRACTION OF A DIFFERENCE IS WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR.

AND I THINK THAT'S EARNED WELL.

AND I THINK THAT I WOULD IF I WERE SITTING IN A COUNCIL SEAT, I WOULD SAY I RECOGNIZE THE 50.001 WHEN IT COMES TO RESPONSIBILITIES.

I DO NOT RECOGNIZE THE 50.001 WHEN IT COMES TO POWER.

TO MAKE DECISIONS AS A BODY.

IF THAT MAKES SENSE.

YES, IT DOES. OKAY.

AND SO WHAT DO WE DO IN THIS GROUP TO SAY AND YOU KNOW, AND I'M GOING TO LOOK OVER HERE AT BRIAN BECAUSE THERE ARE TIMES IN WHICH HE'LL BE SITTING IN THE MAYOR'S SEAT.

TWICE, RIGHT.

BUT THERE ARE TIMES IN WHICH YOU HAVE TO SIT THERE, YOU HAVE TO RUN THE MEETING.

YOU HAVE TO SUBSCRIBE TO THESE THINGS.

YOU HAVE TO ELEVATE TO THE TO THIS SORT OF POWER POSITION IN THE DYNAMIC.

AND SO WHAT IS RIGHT FOR A MAYOR THAT IS RIGHT BY THE BODY'S EXPECTATIONS AND DESIRES.

AND SO I THINK THAT I THINK WE'RE GETTING TO A LAYER OF UNDERSTANDING HERE THAT WE NEED TO GIVE A LITTLE BIT OF LATITUDE THAT WE'RE COMFORTABLE WITH TO ALLOW THE MAYOR TO RUN THE MEETING, BUT TO HAVE THE PROCESSES IN PLACE THAT GIVE THE CHECKS AND BALANCES WHERE COUNCIL CAN SAY, HEY, PROCESS ISSUE HERE, I WANT TO MAKE AN AMENDMENT OR WHOEVER WANTED TO AMEND THE MOTION, IT WAS YOU.

IT WAS PAUL. YOU KNOW, HOW DO WE GET TO THAT POINT WHERE WE RESPECT THE POSITION, WE RESPECT THE AUTHORITY OF HIM TO RUN THE MEETING OR ACT AS THE SPOKESPERSON.

BUT THERE'S A TRUST FACTOR THERE THAT HE'S GOING TO APPLY THE RULES EQUITABLY.

HE'S GOING TO BE FAIR TO ALL.

HE'S NOT GOING TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF HIS SEAT AT THE DAIS.

AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO ITEMIZE.

YES, BUT BUT THE THE AMENDMENT TO THE MOTION CAN'T COME AT.

10:59 P.M..

ON THE FIRST ITEM.

I'M NOT SAYING THAT'S THE CASE. I'M USING SOME ARBITRARY THING, BUT I'M JUST SAYING THERE HAS TO BE SOME KIND OF CONTEXTUAL UNDERSTANDING TO.

AND THAT'S THE SAME THING WE TALKED ABOUT WITH STAFF TIME, RIGHT? YOU'VE GOT TO BE RESERVED IN YOUR TIME BECAUSE AMENDMENTS MAY COME UP, RIGHT? VERSUS I HAVE EIGHT HOURS IN A WORK SESSION, SO I'M GOING TO USE EVERY OUNCE OF THOSE.

AND IN THE MIDDLE OF A WORK SESSION, AN AMENDMENT MOTION COMES UP THAT'S GOING TO CARRY US OVER AND HAVE US LATE.

RIGHT? THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO GET.

IF WE CAN GET TO A CONSERVATIVE USE OF TIME UNDERSTANDING, THERE'S GOING TO BE WILD CARDS, THAT'S GREAT.

BUT RIGHT NOW, WE AGAIN, WE CAN'T TAKE ANY BREAKS, NONE TO GET THROUGH OUR WORK SESSION ON TIME.

WHY IS THAT? THEY LOTS OF OPINING, LOTS OF TALKING, LOTS OF NO QUESTIONS.

WELL, THEN. OKAY.

BUT THEN IT WOULD GET CHALLENGED, RIGHT? YOU SEE HOW THIS GOES? LIKE, OH, SO HERE WE GO.

OH MY. TO HIS POINT.

I KNOW, I KNOW.

YOU MIGHT FEEL LIKE WE APPEAL.

WE WANT TO USURP, TO USE YOUR WORDS, EVERY RULING, BUT THAT'S NOT THE CASE.

THERE HAVE BEEN THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE AS MAYOR MAKING RULINGS AS AS THE CHAIR OF THE MEETING THAT I HAVE DISAGREED WITH, THAT BRIAN HAD DISAGREED WITH.

I KNOW BECAUSE WE TALK OFTEN, BUT WE HAVE INTENTIONALLY NOT SAID ANYTHING.

AM I TELLING THE TRUTH? WE REALLY DO RESPECT THE FACT THAT YOU CAN RUN THE MEETINGS.

SO IT IS WHILE IT MIGHT FEEL THAT WAY, JUST LIKE YOU TALKED ABOUT THE DISCREPANCY IN TIME BETWEEN THE WAY CHRIS AND BRIAN TALKED, WHILE YOU MIGHT FEEL THAT WAY, THAT'S NOT ACTUALLY THE FACTS. SO WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT A BRIDGE, HOW TO BRIDGE THAT DIVIDE.

RIGHT. LET ME LET ME WE'RE GOING TO USE THIS JUST BECAUSE I THINK IT'S FUNNY AND IT'S SO SIMPLE, BUT IT COULD BE NECESSARY IN THIS ENVIRONMENT WE PROGRAMED IN THAT THE MAYOR WOULD CALL A RECESS EVERY TWO HOURS FOR A COMFORT BREAK.

IT WAS PART OF THE PROCESS.

SO THERE WAS NEVER A QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER HE'S JUST SHUTTING DOWN CONVERSATION AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME BECAUSE HE DOESN'T LIKE THE WAY THAT SOMETHING'S GOING.

IT WAS PEOPLE NEED TO USE THE BATHROOM.

AND SO WE'RE GOING TO CALL A RECESS AT EVERY TWO HOURS, AT LEAST EVERY TWO HOURS.

SO SIMPLE.

IF I COULD JUST SAY. SO HERE'S THE THING.

I THINK FROM THERE'S TWO DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES HERE, AND I THINK BOTH ARE VERY IMPORTANT.

ONE IS IT'S HARD TO IT'S HARD TO RUN A MEETING THAT'S GOING TO GO 8 TO 10 HOURS.

AND PEOPLE HAVE ALREADY MOST OF THE PEOPLE IN THIS ROOM HAVE OTHER THINGS THEY'RE DOING, I MEAN, THAT ARE WORKING OR WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE.

SO THAT'S ONE, THE STAFF TRY TO DO A GOOD AGENDA WHERE WE'RE VERY WE SEND OUT STUFF, WE GIVE THEM ALL THE INFORMATION WE CAN.

WE ASK THAT WE GET THE QUESTIONS BACK NO LATER THAN WHEN IN THE AFTERNOON, SUNDAY AFTERNOON MEETINGS ON TUESDAY SO THAT WE CAN CONSENT SHOULD BE CONSENT UNLESS THERE'S

[05:30:05]

THEN YOU GET INTO YOUR YOU ALREADY HAVE DONE YOUR YOUR WORK SESSION, SO YOU'RE LITERALLY INTO INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATIONS AFTER THE PLEDGE AND ALL THAT AND THEN PUBLIC HEARINGS AND AND SOME ZONING STUFF LIKE THAT.

HE CERTAINLY I THINK EVERYBODY WOULD APPRECIATE A BREAK IF IT GOES LONG.

BUT THE QUESTION IS, WHY IS IT GOING SO LONG? I MEAN, I'M JUST GOING TO I'M GOING TO THROW IT OUT THERE.

WHY IS THE MEETING GOING SO LONG? TILL 10 OR 11 AT NIGHT? HE'S ASKING THAT QUESTION.

I AM. OKAY.

BECAUSE. BECAUSE. BECAUSE.

HERE'S THE. WHAT DO YOU SEE? YOU SIT THERE WITH US. PONTIFICATION.

I SEE PONTIFICATION.

I SEE PEOPLE WHO JUST WANT TO TALK TO JUST BE TALKING.

AND REALLY, IT'S THAT I THINK HAS A LOT TO DO WITH Y'ALL'S RUFFLING OF EACH OTHER'S FEATHERS, BECAUSE IF THEY TALK, WELL, THEN I GOT TO TALK.

AND IF THEY SAY SOMETHING I DON'T LIKE, I'M GOING TO SAY SOMETHING I DON'T LIKE EITHER.

IT'S LIKE I THINK COUNCIL MEMBER BYRD SAID IT BEST.

EVERYBODY JUST NEEDS TO GO AROUND AND SAY THEIR ASK THEIR QUESTIONS, GET EVERYTHING YOU WANT OUT OF IT AND GET YOUR THING AND THEN SAY, OKAY, I'M THROUGH.

EVERYBODY DOES THAT. THE MAYOR SAYS, OKAY, SOMEONE NEED TO CALL THE QUESTION.

THAT'S IT. CALL THE QUESTION, MOVE ON.

BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT WE DO, HONESTLY.

AND YOU ALSO LET'S BE HONEST.

SO I'M BEING HONEST. YOU YOU PONTIFICATE, YOU YOU GIVE YOUR OWN IDEAS OF EXPERTISE.

YOU QUESTION SOMEONE ELSE WHO SAID THEY DIDN'T THEY THIS IS WHAT I THINK EVERYBODY NOT I'M NOT SAYING ANY ONE PERSON.

I'M SAYING EVERYONE DOES THIS.

AND THAT'S REALLY NOT THAT'S NOT GOOD GOVERNANCE.

GOOD GOVERNANCE IS READ YOUR BACKUP, READ THE MATERIAL, ASK THE QUESTIONS IN ADVANCE.

LET US HELP YOU GET WHAT YOU NEED AND THEN BRING IT WHEN IT COMES UP.

ASK YOUR QUESTIONS, GET EVERYTHING YOU NEED DONE, AND THEN EVERYONE GETS THEIR CHANCE.

IF SOMEBODY HAS ANOTHER QUESTION, THE MAYOR SHOULD ACKNOWLEDGE THAT AND LET THEM ASK THAT QUESTION BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT ANYONE NOT TO MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION.

BUT FOR IT TO GO ON FOR THREE HOURS.

WHAT? WHAT'S THE.

I'M JUST CURIOUS BECAUSE AGAIN, YOU'LL NOTICE HOW MANY PEOPLE IN THAT ROOM THAT ARE STAFF.

YOU'LL NOTICE THAT BECAUSE NOW I'M SUPPOSED TO BE THERE.

THAT'S NO MATTER IF WE'RE THERE TILL 3:00 AND I'VE BEEN THERE TO 3:00 IN AUSTIN.

SO I. ME.

I HAD BREAKFAST, LUNCH, DINNER AND THEN A SNACK.

IT WAS GREAT. BUT BUT FOR SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE, THEY'RE SITTING THERE WAITING ON THEIR ITEM UNTIL 10:00 AT NIGHT AND THEY'VE BEEN AT WORK SINCE 730 OR 8.

WE TRY TO ADJUST IT.

JUST SO YOU KNOW, I WILL MOVE THINGS AROUND OR I'LL TELL THE MAYOR, CAN YOU TAKE THIS ONE FIRST? BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN HERE ALL DAY LONG.

BUT AND WE TRY TO GET THE CITIZENS OUT, TOO, SO THAT THEY'RE NOT ANYBODY THAT'S THEY'RE BEEN WAITING ON THERE.

BUT I'M JUST GOING TO ASK THE QUESTION, WHAT IS THE REASON WHY WE CAN'T MOVE SOMETHING ALONG? AND I DO THINK THAT'S WHAT'S THE PROBLEM IS.

I DO BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S WHERE THE ISSUES ARE.

I THINK I THINK THE MAYOR GETS FRUSTRATED, RIGHTFULLY SO.

BUT THEN THERE'S THE DIALOG THAT GOES AND HE DOES ADD HIS COMMENTS, BUT SOMETIMES HE'S TRYING TO CONTROL THE MEETING, TOO.

AND I KNOW HE SAID, YOU KNOW, AND I WILL TELL YOU, THIS IS NOT UNUSUAL.

I'VE WORKED FOR SEVERAL MAYORS.

I'VE WORKED FOR A MAYOR IN AUSTIN THAT WOULD LITERALLY GO COUNCIL MEMBER SO AND SO.

DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO SAY? BECAUSE SHE WOULD ALWAYS COME BACK UP WITH SOMETHING.

AND HE FINALLY, AFTER ABOUT FOUR TIMES, HE'D GO, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO SAY? IT WAS PRETTY EMBARRASSING FOR HER, BUT THAT'S WHAT HE WOULD DO.

IT IS TRYING TO RUN A MEETING, TRYING TO GET IT THROUGH.

NOTHING GOOD HAPPENS AFTER 10 P.M.

IN A COUNCIL MEETING. THAT'S JUST ALMOST.

YOU CAN QUOTE ME. NOTHING GOOD HAPPENS AFTER 10 P.M.

AT ANY CITY COUNCIL MEETING.

LET'S GET A LOT FASTER.

THEY DO. YOU'RE RIGHT, COUNCIL MEMBER.

YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, BRANDON.

THINGS HAPPEN A LOT FASTER THAN THEY DO.

I WON'T. I WON'T PUSH BACK.

I APPRECIATE THAT FEEDBACK.

I WILL. I WILL SIMPLY OFFER A BIT OF A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE.

WE ALL GO AROUND, WE SAY OUR, WE SAY OUR BIT AND THEN WE VOTE.

I DO BELIEVE TO SOME DEGREE THAT OBSTRUCTS THE DELIBERATIVE PROCESS THAT WE'VE WE'VE HEARD ABOUT.

I DO BELIEVE THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO FIND THE ABILITY TO STRIKE A BETTER HAPPY MEDIUM BETWEEN SAYING SOMETHING, BUT ALSO BEING ABLE TO INTERACT IN MORE, HAVE MORE DISCUSSION, MORE DIALOG DIRECTLY WITH OUR COLLEAGUES WITH EACH OTHER SO THAT WE CAN GET TO THE BEST DECISION I PARTICULARLY BENEFIT FROM.

I MIGHT SAY SOMETHING, BUT THEN MAYBE ASKING A QUESTION OF A DIFFERENT ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES WHO SAID SOMETHING SO I CAN GET SOME MORE BACKGROUND.

THAT'S HAPPENED A NUMBER OF TIMES WITH CHRIS WHERE HE SAID SOMETHING AND I'M LIKE, HEY, SAY MORE ABOUT THAT BECAUSE HE MIGHT LAY OUT SOME HISTORY AND STUFF WHEN HE WAS MARRIED THAT WE POSSIBLY WOULD NOT KNOW.

SO I GUESS WHAT I'M SAYING IS WE'RE GOING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO HAVE HOW TO HOW TO HOW TO DO WHAT THE MAYOR WANTS AND MOVE THE MEETING ALONG, BUT ALSO STILL BE ABLE TO HAVE THAT DELIBERATIVE PROCESS, NOT JUST SIMPLY SAYING SOMETHING ONE TIME AND THEN BEING DONE.

[05:35:04]

YOU GET TO ASK ONE, YOU GET ONE FOLLOW UP TURN AND THEN WE'RE MOVING ON VERSUS, OH, WE'RE JUST GOING TO KEEP GOING.

I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT'S THE RIGHT SOLUTION IN THIS CITY.

IT COULD BE. SOME PEOPLE SAY YOU HAVE SEVEN MINUTES TOTAL.

I DON'T KNOW WHO'S CLICKING, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO SAY SOMETHING.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO SAY SOMETHING.

THAT IS TRUE. BUT BUT AGAIN, IT IS TO THE BODY TO DECIDE AND TO DETERMINE WHAT THE BEST COURSE OF ACTION FOR BUSINESS IS.

BECAUSE ULTIMATELY, IF YOU SAY WE CAN ALL AGREE TO THESE RULES, THEN THERE'S NO QUESTION ABOUT HOW THE MAYOR IS RUNNING THE MEETINGS.

HE IS GIVING EVERYBODY A TURN IN ORDER.

HE'S GIVING EVERYBODY ONE MORE TURN.

HE MAY CALL ON EACH ONE OF YOU INDIVIDUALLY, INDIVIDUALLY.

ANYTHING ELSE? ANYTHING ELSE? ANYTHING ELSE? ANYTHING ELSE? OKAY. I NEED A MOTION.

BUT HE DOES DO THAT. HE DOES SAY AND I'VE SEEN HIM DO IT REGULARLY LATELY.

IS ANYBODY HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO SAY? I MEAN, I FEEL LIKE PEOPLE GET A CHANCE TO SAY.

I THINK THAT I THINK THE FRUSTRATING PART SOMETIMES AND I'M JUST SPEAKING FROM WHAT I SEE NOT IS THAT IT'S THIS PONTIFICATION OF THINGS THAT DRAGS ON.

I GET YOU. YOU GOT TO ASK QUESTIONS.

I ASK ALL THE QUESTIONS.

I'M NOT. I WANT PEOPLE TO MAKE INFORMED DECISIONS.

I DON'T WANT COUNCIL TO EVER FEEL LIKE THEY DIDN'T GET THE INFORMATION THEY NEED.

AND QUITE FRANKLY, I WOULD PREFER YOU SAY IF IT GOES ON, I WOULD PREFER COUNCILMAN GO.

I'D LIKE TO DEFER THIS ITEM UNTIL WE GET MORE INFORMATION.

I WOULD BE HAPPY WITH THAT BECAUSE SOMETIMES I THINK YOU BEAT IT TO DEATH.

IT'S THAT OLD DAKOTA TRIBAL WISDOM THAT SAYS YOU CAN HIRE A CONSULTANT TO TELL THE HORSE IS NOT DEAD.

YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT, YOU KNOW, SLEEP NOW.

I DON'T I DON'T THINK THIS HORSE IS DEAD OR YOU ARE YOU HIRE YOU HIRE ANOTHER PERSON TO HELP IT PERFORM BETTER.

THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THERE THAT I THINK WE END UP DOING THAT REALLY IF WE JUST SET THE GUIDELINES AND SAY THIS IS KIND OF HOW WE'RE GOING TO OPERATE, THERE'S GOING TO BE TIMES WHEN THE MAYOR MAY GIVE A POINT OF PRIVILEGE TO A COUNCIL MEMBER.

THAT'S OKAY.

IF THAT COUNCIL MEMBER HAS SOMETHING VERY IMPERATIVE TO SAY THAT THEY JUST THOUGHT OF.

I'M NOT SAYING ANYTHING HAS TO BE IN STONE, BUT I DO THINK, LIKE COUNCIL MEMBER HOLLAND SAID, IS YOU DON'T ALWAYS HAVE TO SAY THINGS.

YOU DON'T ALWAYS HAVE TO PONTIFICATE ABOUT IT AND SAY YOUR PIECE, SUPPORT IT, DON'T SUPPORT IT.

I HATE THIS IDEA, WHATEVER IT IS, AND THEN LET OTHER PEOPLE SAY THEIR POINT AND MOVE ON AND DO THE VOTE.

CHRIS SAND YEAH, I WOULD BE HESITANT TO TRY TO STRIKE SOME PARTICULAR PROCEDURAL RULES BECAUSE I THINK WE'VE NOT HAD THIS CONVERSATION IN THE PAST AND I THINK THIS CONVERSATION CAN BE HELPFUL WITH US MOVING FORWARD.

I MEAN, I WOULD THINK IT WOULD BE AN OVERREACTION TO TRY TO SET A SET OF RULES WHEN THIS IS THE FIRST TIME WE'VE REALLY HAD, QUITE FRANKLY, THIS KIND OF THIS KIND OF, YOU KNOW, AUTHENTIC DIALOG THAT GIVES EVERYBODY A CHANCE TO HAVE A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE.

NOW, IF TWO MONTHS, THREE MONTHS FROM NOW, WE'RE STILL DOING THE SAME THING, MYSELF INCLUDED, WELL, THEN MAYBE SO.

BUT, YOU KNOW, I WANT TO BE ABLE TO TAKE THIS IN AND, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE WE'RE ALL ADULTS IN THE ROOM.

AND ULTIMATELY, THE LAST SLIDE AND THIS IS GOING TO BE NEXT STEPS.

AND THE QUESTION BECOMES, DO WE WANT TO PURSUE CONSIDERATION OF OF ANY OR ALL OF THESE THINGS IN SOME WAY? DO WE WANT WE HAD A COMMITTEE THERE WAS A COMMITTEE OF THREE THAT THE MAYOR APPOINTED, AND THEY VETTED THIS AND BROUGHT BACK THEIR RECOMMENDATION COUNCIL, NOT SAYING THAT'S WHAT YOU WOULD DO. IT COULD BE THAT YOU HAND IT TO SARA AND SAY, BRING US BACK A DRAFT.

BUT BUT THAT'S WHERE WE'RE HEADED IN THIS.

AND SO IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE THERE IS A DISCUSSION ABOUT PROCEDURALLY HOW A MEETING MIGHT BE RUN THAT THAT BEARS MORE DISCUSSION.

IF THE ANSWER IS WE'RE NOT INTERESTED IN TALKING ABOUT IT, JUST SAY IT AND WE CAN.

STAFF CAN JUST MOVE ON ALONG.

YOU MEAN TO TO CRAFT SPECIFIC GUIDELINES OR OR TO HEY, YOU ALL HEARD IT.

LET'S REVISIT IT IN 2 OR 3 MONTHS AND MONTHS OURSELVES AND SEE IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE.

I MEAN, I THINK WE CAN SELF REGULATE.

AND SO IN THAT RESPECT, NOW, LIKE WHAT COUNCIL MEMBER VICKI WAS TALKING ABOUT, ABOUT THE POSITIVE MOTION, I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING WE CAN PROBABLY DECIDE THE TWO MINUTE PITCH, THAT'S PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD.

WE CAN SAY, YEP, YES OR NO, AS FAR AS DO WE WANT TO HAVE IT GO STRAIGHT FROM TWO MINUTE PITCH TO A TO A COUNCIL VOTE OR WHAT ARE THE EXTENUATING CIRCUMSTANCES? BUT WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NOW, I THINK, IS SOMETHING THAT THAT'S JUST ME.

NO, I COMPLETELY AGREE.

AND SO AND THIS IS CHRIS, THIS IS PIECES AND PARTS.

AND SO IF WE WANT TO SAY WE WANT TO WE'VE WE'VE DISCUSSED IT, WE'VE HEARD IT, AND WE WANT TO JUST KIND OF WAIT AND SEE ON DEFINING MAYORAL OR COUNCIL RESPONSIBILITIES ANY FURTHER AND WE'LL COME BACK AND REVISIT IT IN THREE MONTHS AND SEE IF WE REALLY DO WANT TO COMMIT IT.

BUT WE WANT TO MOVE FORWARD ON THESE OTHER THINGS.

THAT'S TOTALLY VALID.

AND SO, YEAH, WELL, I GUESS INTERESTED BECAUSE I'M HEARING A KIND OF A CRY FOR HELP AND YOU KNOW, I'D LIKE TO JUST TEE UP A COUPLE OF THINGS FOR CONSIDERATION.

IT DOESN'T MEAN WE HAVE TO ACT ON THEM NOW, BUT YOU KNOW, YOU CAN THINK ABOUT THE MEETINGS GOING ON.

[05:40:06]

RIGHT? IT'S BEEN AROUND. FOR A LONG TIME AND BACK WHEN THE PREVIOUS LIFE AND I WAS PRETEND, THAT'S WHEN THE IDEA OF ESTIMATED TIME FOR EACH ITEM WHICH WHICH WE ARE USING WORK SESSION.

YEAH YEAH. AND IF YOU REMEMBER THERE'S ONE IDEA THAT I TEED UP THAT WE JUST THOUGHT, MAN, THIS IS NEVER GOING TO FLY.

AND SO WE NEVER BROUGHT IT UP. BUT MAYBE WE WILL.

NOW ANOTHER DELIBERATIVE BODIES.

THERE'S AN AMOUNT OF TIME ALLOWED FOR DEBATE, A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME ALLOWED.

IT'S IN ROBERT'S RULES, I BELIEVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME ALLOWED FOR THE AFFIRMATIVE.

A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME ALLOWED FOR THE NEGATIVE PROPOSITION.

YOU COULD EVEN SAY EVERY COUNCILMEMBER GETS TO TALK FOR AN ALLOTTED AMOUNT OF TIME.

WE GIVE THE PEOPLE WHO VISIT US AN ALLOTTED AMOUNT OF TIME SO PEOPLE MAY FEEL THAT'S OVERLY RESTRICTING YOU.

I WOULD SAY IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU WANT TO SAY, YOU CAN SAY YOU CAN DO THE 32ND VERSION, YOU COULD DO THE HOUR VERSION OR ANY GRADATION IN BETWEEN.

YOU KNOW, AS LONG AS IT'S IMPLEMENTED FAIRLY, I'LL PLAY BY WHATEVER RULES, YOU KNOW, WE ALL LIKE AND I'M OPEN TO SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

IF I CAN TEE UP ONE OTHER, THE TWO MINUTE PITCH QUESTION RATTLING AROUND IN MY MIND, WHAT WOULD THE ASTERISK BE? WHY WOULD YOU EVER WANT TO GO DIRECTLY TO A VOTE? WELL, IF TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE, BUT IT'S TOO EASY TO SAY TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE, RIGHT? IF YOU JUST STRONGLY AGREE, WHAT IF WE SAID GO DIRECTLY TO A VOTE? IF A SUPERMAJORITY AGREES THAT TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE, IT'S A LITTLE HARDER, MAYBE A LITTLE HARDER TO MEET THAT STANDARD BECAUSE SOMEONE'S GOING TO COME UP WHERE LIKE, YOU HAVE TO WAIT A MONTH BECAUSE IT'S GOING TO.

WELL, I MEAN, YOU'D HAVE TO DEFINE TIME.

AND I DON'T I DON'T OPPOSE TO THAT.

I MEAN, THAT'S A THAT'S A GOOD FALLBACK POSITION TO NOT HAVING THAT OPPORTUNITY AT ALL.

BUT TO ME, TIME TO ME, THOSE ARE EMERGENCY SITUATIONS THAT ARE GOING TO DEFINITELY IMPACT EITHER CITY OPERATIONS OR SOMETHING IN THE COMMUNITY.

I DON'T THINK THAT I'M JUST GOING TO BE HANGING OUT THERE.

I DON'T THINK THAT.

THINGS THAT ARE OF NATIONAL KIND OF POLITICAL ISSUES AND THOSE KINDS OF THINGS.

I'M THINKING, WELL, IF WE'VE GOT TO DECLARE A NATIONAL EMERGENCY OR A CITY EMERGENCY OR WE'VE GOT TO BUY SOME THINGS OR WE'VE GOT TO SO I DON'T MIND LOOKING AT THAT.

AND I LIKE THE SUPERMAJORITY ASPECT OF IT BECAUSE IT'S LIKE, OKAY, BECAUSE TO GO FROM THIS TO THAT WITH NO DISCUSSION, IT CAN'T JUST BE A NORMAL POLICY ISSUE.

IT HAS TO BE SOMETHING THAT IS DEFINITELY TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE AND IT'S POTENTIALLY HARMFUL.

I MEAN, IT CAN CREATE REAL HARM BOTH FINANCIALLY AND OR PHYSICALLY, YOU KNOW, ACTUALLY PUBLIC SAFETY ISSUES.

SO I THINK TO FLUSH THOSE OUT AND TO HAVE SOME SOME GUARDRAILS AND THEN TO HAVE THAT POTENTIAL SUPERMAJORITY VOTE, I THINK THAT'S A I THINK THAT'S A GOOD IDEA.

RHETORICALLY SPEAKING, IF IT'S IF IT'S AN EMERGENCY.

AND I WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT WE WOULD ALL AGREE THAT IT'S AN EMERGENCY HEALTH AND SAFETY OR FINANCIAL SAFETY, WHAT WOULD A SUPERMAJORITY BE? 5 TO 2, I THINK IT'S SIX, SIX, SIX, 6 OR 7.

I MEAN, WOULD THAT BE NECESSARY IF YOU IF YOU WANT TO? I MEAN, I THINK IF IT REALLY IS LIKE AN EMERGENCY SITUATION, THAT'D BE VERY EVIDENT.

I CHOSE THE TERM TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE NOT TO DEFINE IT, BUT TO SAY, WELL, SIX PEOPLE WOULD HAVE TO AGREE.

SO IT MAY BE SOMETHING WE'RE NOT ANTICIPATING OR IT'S JUST SIMPLY TIME SENSITIVE, AND YOU MAY WELL WANT TO WITHHOLD YOUR SUPPORT FOR THAT.

IF YOU DIDN'T FEEL LIKE IT WAS JUST LIKE YOU FEEL URGENT ABOUT IT.

BUT IT'S NOT REALLY.

CALAMITOUS POTENTIALLY, OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

SO I THINK THE FACT THAT YOU NEED SIX PEOPLE IS ENOUGH OF A GUARDRAIL IN AND OF ITSELF FOR A LOOSE DEFINITION OF TIMES.

YEAH, THAT'S MY OPINION.

YEAH. SO I WAS GOING TO MENTION.

UH. IN YOUR CONVERSATION ABOUT TIMING? YEAH, I WOULD PICK UP WHERE THE CITY MANAGER LEFT OFF AND SAY AND PUT BEFORE THE GROUP.

IF WE CAN TALK ABOUT A GUARDRAIL THAT SAYS TWO MINUTES.

QUESTIONS. I THINK YOU CAN DO UNLIMITED QUESTIONS.

I THINK TO THE CITY MANAGER'S POINT, IT'S WHEN YOU OPINE.

AND ONCE UPON A TIME I WENT TO NEWTON RAYZOR, AND I WALKED ON BONNIE BRAE STREET AND THIS AND THIS AND THIS AND THIS, THAT, THAT, THAT.

AND ULTIMATELY, WE GET TO A QUESTION LATER IN THAT WHOLE STATEMENT.

SO IF IT'S TWO MINUTES IS OUR TWO MINUTE PITCH, YOU HAVE TO MAKE A WHOLE SALES PITCH IN TWO MINUTES.

[05:45:04]

SHE SHE'LL SAY, HEY, IT'S GETTING LATE, YOU KNOW? AND SO THAT'S SO SO THAT'S THE THING, RIGHT? SO THAT'S IT'S THE SAME THING IS WHEN WHEN YOU'RE MANAGING A MEETING, YOU DON'T GET TO BRING UP THIS WHOLE CONVOLUTED THING.

LATE IN THE MEETING. LATE IN THE MEETING, YOU GET THIS.

YOU WANT YOU WANT ALL THIS, YOU NEED TO EVERYTHING NEEDS TO BE HERE.