Aug 19, 2025 City Council on 2025-08-19 2:00 PM

[WORK SESSION]

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GOOD AFTERNOON AND WELCOME TO THIS MEETING OF THE DENTON CITY COUNCIL. TODAY IS TUESDAY, AUGUST 19TH, 2025. IT IS 2 P.M. CALL AND WE DO HAVE A QUORUM, SO I'LL CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER.

FIRST THING IS CITIZEN COMMENTS ON THE CONSENT CONSENT AGENDA. SEEING NONE THAT TAKES US TO

[2. Requests for clarification of agenda items listed on this agenda for public hearing and individual consideration.]

WE DO HAVE QUITE A BIT. SO I'M GOING TO BE. WATCHING THAT CLOSELY TO MAKE SURE WE CAN GET

[A. Receive a report and hold a discussion regarding an update from Denton County Transportation Authority (DCTA). [Estimated Presentation/Discussion Time: 45 minutes]]

REGARDING AN UPDATE FROM THE DENTON COUNTY TRANSIT AUTHORITY. >> GOOD AFTERNOON. THANK YOU, MAYOR HUDSPETH AND MEMBERS OF COUNCIL. IT'S VERY GOOD TO BE WITH YOU. MY NAME IS PAUL CHRISTINA. I'M THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER OF THE DENTON COUNTY TRANSPORTATION AUTHORITY.

I'M JOINED BY MR. PAT SMITH, OUR BOARD MEMBER ALTERNATE REPRESENTING THE CITY OF DENTON, AND MISS JACKIE BRONSON, WHO'S OUR VICE PRESIDENT OF ENGAGEMENT AND ADMINISTRATION. MUCH TO TALK ABOUT WITH WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THE AGENCY, BUT TO THE MAYOR'S POINT, WILL MOVE BRISKLY. I DID GET SOME QUESTIONS BEFORE THE MEETING THAT I'LL WEAVE INTO MY OVERALL PRESENTATION, AND SO WE'LL STEP OFF FROM THERE. FIRST, WE HAVE FORMED OUR APPROACH AT DCTA AROUND RESULTS RELATED TO SAFETY, SERVICE AND RIDERSHIP. SO HERE YOU SEE A SLIDE CAPTURING OUR SAFETY PERFORMANCE YEAR TO DATE ON OUR THREE MAJOR MODES THE GO ZONE SERVICE, THE BUS OPERATION SERVICE AND THEN THE A TRAIN. WE MEASURE THESE THINGS. INCIDENT FREQUENCY RATIO IS MEASURED IN INCIDENTS PER 100,000 VEHICLE MILES. AND SO WE'RE YOU SEE 0.27 ON GO ZONE AND 0.77 ON BUS. THAT MEANS 0.77 INCIDENTS PER 100,000 MILES. THESE COULD BE AN INCIDENT COULD BE ANYTHING REPORTABLE TO THE FTA, FEDERAL TRANSIT ADMINISTRATION LIKE A TRAFFIC ACCIDENT. OR IT COULD BE SOMETHING LIKE A DRIVER WITH A NEGATIVE INTERACTION WITH A PASSENGER. WHAT THE INDUSTRY IS NOW CALLING OPERATOR ASSAULT. ALTHOUGH THAT WORD MAY NOT ACCURATELY REFLECT THE SEVERITY OF WHATEVER THAT INCIDENT IS. SO IN THE BOTTOM, WE SHOW YOU HOW WE PERFORMED LAST YEAR BECAUSE WE'RE ALWAYS TRYING TO IMPROVE. WE'RE JUST ABOUT FLAT A LITTLE BIT BETTER ON THE GO ZONE SERVICE HAD A HAD A ROUGHER START TO THE BUS OPERATION AT THIS BEGINNING OF THE YEAR.

HOWEVER, WE'VE BEEN TRENDING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. AND THEN SO FAR, IF YOU'RE A BASEBALL FAN, WE'RE PITCHING A PERFECT GAME ON THE A TRAIN. ZEROS ACROSS THE BOARD IS EXACTLY WHAT WE WANT TO SEE, AND WE'RE HOPEFUL FOR THAT OUTCOME TO CONTINUE AND PUT THE THINGS IN PLACE SO THAT IT CAN ON THE SERVICE PERFORMANCE SIDE, AGAIN, LOOKING AT MAINLY THE ACCESS SERVICE, THE BUS OPERATION AND GO ZONE ON ACCESS, THIS IS OUR ELDERLY DISABLED PARATRANSIT SERVICE. WE'RE RUNNING 99% ON TIME FOR THE ENTIRE YEAR. GREAT. GREAT OUTCOMES, DRIVEN PRIMARILY BY DISPATCHERS WHO ARE REALLY DIALED IN. AND WE HAVE THIS GREAT SOFTWARE PLATFORM THAT ALLOWS US TO MOST EFFICIENTLY DISPATCH THE TRIPS SO THAT WE CAN GET AS MANY PEOPLE MOVED AS EFFICIENTLY AS POSSIBLE ON THE ON TIME PERFORMANCE FRONT IN THE UPPER RIGHT ON FIXED ROUTE, WHICH YOU SEE, AS WE STARTED THE FISCAL YEAR IN THE 70 TO 80% RANGE, AND WE'VE STEADILY MARCHED OUR WAY UP. AND THERE WAS A QUESTION THAT SAYS, IS THAT NORMAL? WHAT SHOULD WE EXPECT IN THE FUTURE? I WILL REMIND YOU ALL THAT LAST SUMMER WE DID THE TRANSITION FROM IN TMC TO DCTA WITH ALL OF OUR BUS OPERATORS AND DIRECTLY HIRING THOSE BUS OPERATORS. LAST SUMMER, OUR ON TIME PERFORMANCE WAS EVEN LOWER THAN THAT. SO BASICALLY, THE INSOURCING OF THAT OPERATION AND THE HIRING OF A LOT OF NEW OPERATORS, A LOT OF NEW SUPERVISORS, A LOT OF GREAT TEAM WORK HAS ALLOWED US TO MAKE THAT KIND OF PROGRESS THAT I'M REALLY PROUD OF. UNT THE UNT SERVICE FOR THE MAIN SEMESTER STARTED YESTERDAY. WE WERE ABOVE 90% ON TIME. WE'RE EXPECTING THAT TO CONTINUE. WE ALSO APPRECIATE THE WORK THAT WE'VE DONE WITH YOUR STAFF ON ROAD

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OVERALL, WE'RE DOWN ABOUT 9.5% YEAR OVER YEAR. HOWEVER, IF YOU REMEMBER, LAST YEAR WE BROKE AN ALL TIME RIDERSHIP RECORD AT DCTA WITH NEARLY 3.3 MILLION TRIPS ACROSS THE WHOLE SYSTEM AND ALL OF OUR MODES. AND THEN LAST SUMMER, WE MADE A STEP TO OPTIMIZE THE SYSTEM BY TAKING SOME GO ZONE CAPACITY OUT OF THE CITY OF DENTON AND MOVING THAT TO HIGHLAND VILLAGE AND LEWISVILLE. WHILE WE ALSO SAID, IF YOU'RE TRYING TO GET A GO ZONE, RIDE ANYWHERE INSIDE OF THAT BLUE POLYGON IN THE LOWER RIGHT WHERE THE CONNECT SYSTEM IS RUNNING, THE APP IS GOING TO TELL YOU TO GO AND TAKE THE BUS. THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS MADE THE DECISION TO MAKE THOSE BUSSES RUN ON A 20 MINUTE FREQUENCY FROM 7 A.M. TO 9 P.M, AND THE RESULTS OF THAT EFFORT HAVE BEEN OUTSTANDING. OUR BUS RIDERSHIP ON CONNECT IS UP 60% YEAR OVER YEAR. AND SO THAT TELLS US THAT WE KNOW THAT ON THIS NETWORK, MOVING PEOPLE BY BUS IS THE MOST COST EFFECTIVE WAY, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT JUSTIFIED THE DECISION FOR THE INVESTMENT. AND THEN WHAT WE KNOW IS IF THE BUSSES RUNNING FREQUENTLY AND ON TIME, THAT PEOPLE WILL USE IT. AND SO WE EXPECT TO BUILD ON THAT INTO THE FUTURE. AND WE'LL TALK MORE ABOUT THAT IN THE UPPER RIGHT. YOU'RE JUST LOOKING AT THE CONNECT RIDERSHIP YEAR OVER YEAR BY ROUTE. YOU SEE THE HUGE INCREASE IN ROUTE THREE, THE HUGE INCREASE IN RIDERSHIP IN ROUTE SEVEN. AND SO AGAIN, THAT SETS A FOUNDATION FOR WHERE WE'RE HEADED IN THE FUTURE. WE HAD A VISION. THE CITY HAD A VISION FOR DATA DRIVEN DECISION MAKING AND BUSINESS BASED DECISIONS. THAT'S WHAT WE DID LAST YEAR AND WE'RE SEEING THE RESULTS OF THAT. SO WE'RE REALLY PLEASED WITH IT. WHEN WE TALK ABOUT OTHER MAJOR THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING AT THE AGENCY, THE HEADLINER IS THE A TRAIN ENHANCEMENT PROGRAM. THE A TRAIN IS ONE OF 33 COMMUTER RAIL PROPERTIES IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY. IT'S A IT'S REALLY THE BACKBONE OF OUR NETWORK. IT'S A POINT OF PRIDE FOR OUR COMMUNITY AND WE WANT TO MAKE IT BETTER.

WE'VE BEEN WORKING FOR THE LAST THREE YEARS, REALLY TO SET THE FOUNDATION TO START DOING TO, TO MOVE SOME, MOVE SOME DIRT AND GET SOME REAL WORK GOING. AND WE'RE GOING TO DO THIS IN THREE DIFFERENT PHASES. NUMBER ONE IS ON CURVE AND SPEED IMPROVEMENTS. AND I'LL TALK MORE ABOUT THAT HERE IN A SECOND. THE SECOND IS WE'RE GOING TO BEGIN DESIGN ON THE DOWNTOWN CARROLLTON EXTENSION. IF WE CAN EXTEND THE TRAIN TWO MILES FROM WHERE IT TERMINATES NOW AT THE TRINITY MILL STATION INTO DOWNTOWN CARROLLTON, THEN A PERSON COULD GET ON THE A TRAIN AT THE DOWNTOWN DENTON TRANSIT CENTER AND HAVE A TWO SEAT COMMUTER RAIL RIDE TO THE NORTH END OF DFW AIRPORT, ROLL THEIR BAG OFF THE DART SILVER LINE AND MAKE THEIR WAY INTO THE TERMINAL FOR A COST OF A REGIONAL PASS. YOU'RE NOT DRIVING TO THE AIRPORT, YOU'RE NOT PAYING TO PARK. YOU'RE NOT RIDING A PARKING SHUTTLE FROM REMOTE. WE THINK IT'S GOING TO BE A GAME CHANGER. AND THEN THE LAST THING IS BUILDING OUT THE INFRASTRUCTURE SO THAT WE COULD RUN THE TRAIN AT A PEAK 15 MINUTE FREQUENCY. WHAT I SAID ABOUT THE BUSSES IS ALSO TRUE ABOUT THE TRAIN. WHEN IT RUNS FREQUENTLY AND IT RUNS ON TIME, PEOPLE WANT TO RIDE IT, AND SO WE WANT TO MAKE IT SO THAT DURING THE PEAK HOURS, PEOPLE HAVE THE ABILITY TO GO TO THE PLATFORM AND NOT CHECK A SCHEDULE BECAUSE THEY KNOW THAT BEFORE THEY CAN REALLY GET THEIR PHONE OUT TO LOOK AT WHEN THE NEXT TRAIN IS COMING, IT'S GOING TO BE PULLING INTO THE STATION.

WHEN WE TALK ABOUT CURVE AND SPEED IMPROVEMENTS IN PHASE ONE OF THIS INITIATIVE. THIS GRAPH IS SHOWING YOU A PICTURE OF THE SPEED OF THE A TRAIN BETWEEN SPEED LIMIT OF THE, A TRAIN BETWEEN TRINITY MILLS AND THE DOWNTOWN DENTON TRANSIT CENTER. WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS MAKE THE RED LINES WHERE SPEED DIPS FOR VARIOUS REASONS IN THE ON THE TRAIN WE'RE MAKING TRYING TO MAKE ALL OF THOSE SPEED LIMITS GO UP AS HIGH AS POSSIBLE TO WHERE THE BLUE LINE IS. AND SO WHAT YOU SEE IS MANY PLACES WHERE WE'RE RUNNING AT 40, 45, 50 MILES AN HOUR THAT WILL BE ABLE TO RUN AT 60 MILES AN HOUR. THAT ALLOWS US TO SHAVE MAYBE FOUR MINUTES OFF THE RUN TIME, DEPENDING ON CONDITIONS IN THE FIELD. AND SO IT MAKES THE TRAIN MORE COMPETITIVE WITH ALTERNATIVE MODES. YOU MIGHT ASK, WELL, HOW DO YOU DO THAT? IT'S GOING TO LOOK LIKE A HEAVY MAINTENANCE PROJECT, REALLY. THE IF YOU IF YOU KNOW THE TERM SUPERELEVATION, IF YOU'VE WATCHED A RACE, A RACE ON NASCAR AND YOU SEE THE HIGHLY BANKED CURVES THAT ALLOWS CARS TO STICK TO THE TRACK WHEN THEY GO AT HIGH SPEED AROUND A CORNER, WELL, YOU CAN DO THAT WITH A RAILROAD. IT'S IN INCHES, NOT IN FEET. IT'S VERY MINOR, BUT WE'RE GOING TO DO SOME OF THAT SUPER

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THAT IS EXACTLY THE KIND OF OUTCOME THAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR. HOW DO WE MOVE AS MANY PEOPLE AS COST EFFECTIVELY AS POSSIBLE? IS OUR MO, AS WE HAVE TRANSFORMED THE AGENCY IN THE LAST THREE YEARS TO GENERATE THESE KINDS OF RESULTS, WE'RE NOW GOING TO MOVE FROM TRANSFORMATION TO OPTIMIZATION AND FIGURE OUT HOW WE CAN DO THIS MORE AND MORE. THIS IS A 1% IMPROVEMENT AND INCREMENTAL STEP FORWARD, AND THAT'S HOW WE BECOME GREAT OVER TIME. WHERE MIGHT THAT HAPPEN? THIS IS A MAP SHOWING YOU TWO TWO OF THE SAME KIND OF MAP, FISCAL 24 AND FISCAL 25, SHOWING YOU THAT THREE, SIX AND SEVEN BUS NETWORK. AND THEN TO THE SOUTH AND WEST YOU SEE SOME ROUTES THAT RIGHT NOW ARE LABELED AS UNT. YOU SEE A ROUTE THAT GOES ALONG WHAT IS UNIVERSITY DRIVE, AND THEN YOU SEE A ROUTE THAT GOES FROM WHERE UNIVERSITY HITS THE LOOP ON THE EAST SIDE DOWN TO THE MED PARK STATION. IF WHAT HAPPENED ON CONNECT THREE, SIX AND SEVEN HAPPENED ON THIS NETWORK THAT WAS RUNNING ON THE SAME SCHEDULE ON A YEAR ROUND BASIS, THAT'S ALMOST 45% OF ALL THE GO ZONE TRIPS IN THE CITY OF DENTON COULD BE ACCOMMODATED BY THIS NETWORK. SO WE KNOW THAT IT WORKED FOR THREE, SIX AND SEVEN. NOW WE'RE GOING TO BE DOING THE MATH TO SHOW YOU AND OUR BOARD HOW MANY PASSENGERS THIS NETWORK MOVES. WHAT'S THE COST OF RUNNING THOSE BUSSES. AND WE KNOW WHERE THE INFLECTION POINT IS, WHERE THIS SYSTEM BECOMES MORE COST EFFECTIVE ON FIXED ROUTE THAN GO ZONE. THAT'S THE KIND OF WORK THAT WE'RE GOING TO DO THIS YEAR IN HOPES TO TAKE A STEP FORWARD AGAIN IN THIS OPTIMIZATION ROLE OR PATH NEXT SUMMER. ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS WE'RE REALLY FOCUSED ON ACROSS THE NETWORK, OBVIOUSLY, IS SAFETY. AND ONE OF THE MAJOR PIECES OF FEEDBACK WE'VE HEARD ABOUT THE GO ZONE SERVICES. HEY, THE VEHICLE SEEM TO STOP IN INOPPORTUNE PLACES TO LET PEOPLE ON AND OFF, AND WE REALLY WOULD LIKE THAT TO STOP. SO WE'VE DONE A COUPLE OF THINGS. NUMBER ONE, EVERY VEHICLE NOW ON THE BACK OF IT YOU SHOULD SEE AN ALPHANUMERIC DESIGNATOR LIKE L 47. YOU SHOULD SEE A STICKER THAT SAYS CAUTION VEHICLE MAKES FREQUENT STOPS. THAT WAY WHEN PEOPLE SEE THIS BEHAVIOR THEY CAN CALL IT IN. AND WE KNOW AS L 47 ON THIS STREET AT THIS TIME AND FIGURE OUT WHO THE OFFENDING DRIVER WAS. THIS IS SHOWING YOU THE NETWORK OF 14,000, WHAT ARE CALLED VIRTUAL STOPS, THAT THE GO ZONE ALGORITHM USES TO DISPATCH RIDES. THESE ARE NOT STOPS WITH A SIGN ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD, BUT RATHER THAT'S WHERE THE ALGORITHM SAYS THIS IS WHERE YOU DROP PEOPLE OFF. WE ARE WORKING WITH THE TO AUDIT EVERY ONE OF THOSE STOPS, TO FIGURE OUT IF THIS IS WHAT WE CALL A HIGH RISK STOP, LIKE A HIGH RISK OF SOMETHING BAD HAPPENING OR A LOWER RISK STOP OF SOMETHING BAD HAPPENING. AND THE RESULTS HAVE BEEN THROUGH THE FIRST TRANCHE OF THESE STOPS, ABOUT 2500 OF THOSE. THESE ARE FREQUENTLY USED STOPS, WHAT WE CALL OR OTHERS THAT HAVE JUST COME UP IN CONVERSATION LIKE, HEY, THIS REALLY WOULD BE A IT'D BE BETTER TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT HERE. OF THOSE 2500, ABOUT A THOUSAND OF THEM WERE EITHER ADJUSTED OR RELOCATED

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WE'RE WORKING WITH THE CITY OF LEWISVILLE TO BUILD OUT A TRANSIT ORIENTED DEVELOPMENT RIGHT NEAR OUR OLD TOWN STATION. LIKE IN DENTON, WE OWN SOME PROPERTY NEXT TO THE OLD TOWN STATION, AND THE. THE CITY OF LEWISVILLE HAS HAD A VISION FOR THE REDEVELOPMENT OF THEIR DOWNTOWN. THEY'VE DONE A GREAT JOB OVER THE COURSE OF MANY DECADES, AND NOW IT'S TIME FOR THAT DEVELOPMENT TO MOVE ACROSS THE TRACKS. WHAT'S ENVISIONED IS A MIXED USE RETAIL SORT OF DEVELOPMENT. YOU SEE KIND OF A CENTRAL BUILDING THAT WILL BE PROVIDING CLASS A OFFICE SPACE, RETAIL SPACE, PUBLIC MEETING SPACE. DCTA ADMINISTRATIVE HEADQUARTERS WILL HAVE A SMALL FOOTPRINT. THERE YOU SEE A HOTEL CONFERENCE CENTER ENVISIONED ON THE SITE. YOU SEE OTHER BUILDINGS FOR RETAIL, THINGS LIKE THAT. THE WE'RE GOING TO BE PUTTING OUT AN RFQ TO THE DEVELOPER COMMUNITY TO SEE IF THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO HAVE THE SAME VISION THAT WE DO, AND SO WE'LL SEE HOW THAT PROJECT TAKES SHAPE, BUT IT CAUSES US TO NOW TURN OUR ATTENTION TO THE DOWNTOWN DENTON TRANSIT CENTER AND THE PROPERTY THAT WE OWN THERE, AND ALL THE ACTIVITY THAT'S GOING AROUND AND SAY, WE ARE PREPARED TO PARTNER WITH YOU TO FIGURE OUT WHAT WHAT WORKS FOR THE CITY OF DENTON SO THAT WE CAN MAKE THE DOWNTOWN DENTON TRANSIT CENTER ALL THAT IT COULD BE. AND SO WE LOOK FORWARD TO THAT. AND THEN THE LAST THING IS, WE JUST WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT OUR GREAT PARTNERSHIP ON THE TRANSPORTATION REINVESTMENT PROGRAM, WHERE WE'VE OBLIGATED ABOUT $21 MILLION TOWARDS REALLY GREAT TRANSIT, SUPPORTIVE PROJECTS THAT HAVE BEEN PRIORITIES FOR THE CITY OF DENTON. WE WORK CLOSELY WITH YOUR STAFF ON THIS ON A REGULAR BASIS, AND APPRECIATE THAT PARTNERSHIP AND LOOK FORWARD TO THE THINGS THAT ARE GOING TO COME OF IT. THINGS LIKE THE UNION PACIFIC QUIET ZONE, THINGS LIKE THE RAIL TRAIL CONNECTION ON THE NORTH SIDE THROUGH THE NEW OVERPASS, THOSE SORTS OF THINGS. BUT AGAIN, A GREAT, GREAT OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO WORK TOGETHER AND WE APPRECIATE THAT. SO WITH THAT, THAT'S THE END OF MY PREPARED COMMENTS. BUT I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS OR GO BACK

TO SOMETHING THAT I MIGHT HAVE MISSED. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

QUESTIONS FOR THE PRESENTER REPRESENTATIVE FROM DISTRICT FOUR.

>> THANK YOU. GOOD AFTERNOON. NICE NICE REPORT. THANK YOU. SLIDE SIX. IS THERE A CORINTH

STATION THAT I HAVE NOT BEEN PAYING ATTENTION TO? >> NO, SIR. THERE IS NOT A CORINTH STATION HOWEVER, THAT YOU'RE RIGHT. THE BULLET SAYS THERE IS A POTENTIAL SCOPE. ADD THAT THE CITY OF CORINTH HAS EXPRESSED AN INTEREST IN EXPLORING. WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO ESTABLISH A STATION AT CORINTH? AND SO WE'RE HAVING THAT CONVERSATION WITH THEM AT A STAFF LEVEL. WE DID. WE WERE ASKED TO PRESENT TO THEIR CITY COUNCIL. LAST MONTH, THE DCTA

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SYSTEM. >> GOOD. I'M GLAD TO HEAR THAT. THAT'S LONG OVERDUE. ARE LAW

ENFORCEMENT STILL RIDING THE A TRAIN? >> YES, SIR. WE HAVE A CONTRACT WITH THE DENTON COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE, AND THAT CONTRACT HAS AN OFFICER ASSIGNED TO US FULL TIME. IT'S GOING TO BE ACTUALLY ON OUR CONSENT AGENDA THIS MONTH FOR RENEWAL. THE OFFICER SPENDS THEIR TIME AT THE DTC, SPENDS THE TIME RIDING THE TRAIN PERIODICALLY AND IN ANY OTHER

PLACE WHERE DCTA HAS NEED. >> OKAY, OKAY. AND LASTLY, I HAVE HEARD RUMOR OF THE UNIVERSITY OF NORTH TEXAS CREATING THEIR OWN BUS SERVICE. CAN YOU COMMENT ABOUT THAT? DO

YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THAT? >> YES. WHAT I WHAT I THINK IS FACTUAL AND MOST CLEAR TO SAY IS WE'RE IN HAVING CONVERSATIONS WITH THE UNIVERSITY OF NORTH TEXAS ABOUT HOW WE CONTINUE TO DEVELOP OUR RELATIONSHIP AND MOVE FORWARD. WE HAVE GREAT PARTNERS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF NORTH TEXAS. I BELIEVE THAT THERE IS A FUTURE IN WHICH THEIR BUS NETWORK NEEDS, AND OUR BUS NETWORK NEEDS WORK REALLY CLOSELY TOGETHER IN A WAY THAT IS FAIR FOR THEM AND FAIR FOR THE MEMBER CITIES OF THE OF THE DCTA. WHEN I GO BACK TO. THIS MAP HERE, THE ABILITY TO MOVE AS MANY PEOPLE AS COST EFFECTIVELY AS POSSIBLE ON FIXED ROUTE SERVICE. SOME OF THAT STUFF IS DONE ON PLACES WHERE WE'RE RUNNING ROUTES THAT ARE CALLED UNIVERSITY OF NORTH TEXAS ROUTES. SO WHAT WE'RE DOING IS HAVING CONVERSATION WITH THEM ABOUT HOW DO WE TAKE A STEP FORWARD IN A COHESIVE TRANSPORTATION PLAN, AGAIN, THAT MEETS ALL THE NEEDS, WHILE ALSO

PROTECTING THE RESOURCES AND INTERESTS OF OUR MEMBER CITIES? >> THANK YOU SO MUCH. YEP.

>> REPRESENTATIVE FROM DISTRICT TWO. >> HEY, PAUL, THANK YOU FOR THE PRESENTATION. I REALLY APPRECIATE IT. A COUPLE QUICK QUESTIONS. YOU TALKED ABOUT THE OLD TOWN, LEWISVILLE, AND I GUESS IT'S AN EXAMPLE OF SORT OF A TRANSIT ORIENTED DESIGN ON STEROIDS BECAUSE YOU'RE DOING A BIG PROJECT BUT IN THE AREA. BUT YOU MENTIONED YOU ALSO MENTIONED TRANSIT ORIENTED DESIGN IN A COUPLE OTHER WAYS. AND I KNOW IN THE PAST YOU'VE TALKED ABOUT INCENTIVIZING CERTAIN DEVELOPMENTS TO BE COHESIVE WITH YOUR, YOUR, YOUR, YOUR BUS SYSTEM, YOUR OR YOUR GO ZONE, DEPENDING ON THE LOCATION. HAVE YOU GOT ANY ADVANCEMENTS IN IN THAT AREA WHERE GETTING FOLKS ON BOARD THAT WOULD, I DON'T KNOW, SPONSOR A ROUTE OR IN OTHER WAYS HELP FUND THE PROCESS SO THAT THEIR THEIR DEVELOPMENT, THEIR RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT HAS THAT

KIND OF ACCESS. >> I THINK THE WE'RE THE PLACE THAT I WOULD POINT TO THAT THE MOST PROGRESS HAS BEEN MADE IS JUST MAYBE MORE OF NOT ON SPECIFIC PROPERTIES, BUT MORE CONVERSATION IN THE REGION AS A WHOLE. ON THE IDEA THAT TRANSIT CAN BE MOST COMPATIBLE AND MOST EFFECTIVE IN CERTAIN TYPES OF DEVELOPMENT PATTERNS. AND HOW DO WE HOW DO WE FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET THAT SORT OF DEVELOPMENT IN IN THE VICINITY OF OUR CORRIDORS? OBVIOUSLY, WE'RE SERVING ON OUR FIXED ROUTE SYSTEM, MULTIFAMILY UNITS THAT MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE RELATIONSHIPS WITH OTHER ENTITIES THAT ARE HOUSING STUDENTS OR WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE. AND SO THOSE ARE CONVERSATIONS WHERE WE MAKE WE MAKE LISTS AND THEN WE GO FIGURE OUT, OKAY, LET'S GO TALK TO THESE FOLKS AND UNDERSTAND WHAT'S REALLY HAPPENING, BECAUSE EVERY ONE OF THE CASES IS UNIQUE. AND WE WANT TO BUILD WANT TO BUILD ON THE SUCCESS

THAT WE THAT WE ALREADY HAVE. >> OKAY, I APPRECIATE THAT. AND THEN I LOVE AND THIS IS A GOOD SLIDE TO HAVE FOR MY SECOND QUESTION. YOU KNOW, CLEARLY YOU'RE YOU'RE DOING, YOU KNOW, DESTINATION AND RIDERSHIP MAPPING AND ANALYSIS. AND I LOVE THAT BIG SUCKER FOR DATA. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE REGULARLY HEAR ABOUT IS, IS SORT OF DESTINATION MAPPING TO, YOU KNOW, EMPLOYMENT AND OPPORTUNITY AREAS. AND, AND STILL IN THIS BECAUSE THERE IS NO ROUTES OUT TO LIKE OUR WEST PARK TOURS. I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY DOWNTOWN IS COVERED BY THOSE EXISTING ROUTES, BUT IS THERE ANY FORWARD THOUGHT TO SOME OF THESE EMPLOYMENT DESTINATIONS AND

ADDING THEM INTO THE MIX? >> SO GREAT QUESTION. I THINK THERE'S TWO TWO THINGS THAT COME TO MIND WHEN YOU WHEN YOU ASK THAT, NUMBER ONE, I THINK WE AND THIS ALSO CAME UP IN OTHER CONVERSATION, YOU CAN DO A BETTER JOB OF IDENTIFYING WHERE THOSE THINGS EXIST ON THE CURRENT NETWORK SO THAT PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT, HOW IT CAN BE USEFUL TO THEM. BUT WHAT THIS.

BUT IN THE LAST THREE YEARS, WHAT WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO DO IS JUST BUILD A SOLID FOUNDATION OF A FIXED ROUTE NETWORK, BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT A CERTAIN DENSITY, FIXED ROUTE IS THE MOST COST

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OPPORTUNITY. THEY GET TO DEBATE AND MAKE THOSE DECISIONS. >> WELL, I'LL JUST CONTINUE TO PUT IN, YOU KNOW, A DESIRE TO GET GET FOLKS TO THEIR TO THEIR JOB SITES. AND THEN I THINK THIS THIS MAY HAVE BEEN ADDRESSED IN THE COMMENTS TO STAFF THAT WE SENT TO YOU. BUT ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT I LOVED WAS, AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE ANSWER WAS, I'LL JUST I'LL JUST BE REDUNDANT AND ASK IT AGAIN. YOU TALKED ABOUT THE CAMERAS FOR SECURITY REASONS, BUT ONE OF THE QUESTIONS WAS HEADCOUNTS. THANK YOU. DID WE CAN WE DO HEADCOUNTS WITH CAMERAS?

>> ACTUALLY, YES. THANK YOU FOR THAT. REMINDER. THE CAMERAS DO NOT COUNT HEADS. BUT HOWEVER WE DID LAST DECEMBER HAVE CERTIFIED AUTOMATIC PASSENGER COUNTERS ON OUR BUSSES. SO TODAY WHEN YOU WALK ON THE BUS, THERE IS A SMALL SENSOR ABOVE THE DOOR THAT COUNTS BOARDINGS AND ALIGHTINGS AT A STOP LEVEL. SO WE NOW HAVE THAT CERTIFIED THROUGH THE OUR SUBMISSION TO THE NATIONAL TRANSIT DATABASE. AND SO WE'VE AUTOMATED WHAT USED TO BE A VERY MANUAL COLLECTION PROCESS.

>> GREAT I APPRECIATE THAT. THANK YOU. >> YEAH, THANK YOU FOR THE

REMINDER. >> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? REPRESENTATIVE FROM DISTRICT

THREE. >> THANK YOU, COUNCIL MEMBER BECK FOR ASKING THAT. I REMEMBER A FEW YEARS BACK THAT Y'ALL WERE TALKING ABOUT DOING THAT. SO I WAS CURIOUS IF IT WAS THOSE CAMERAS. I JUST WANT TO SAY THANKS FOR PRESENTING. I APPRECIATE DCTA AND THE DCTA BOARD FOR USING DATA TO KIND OF OPTIMIZE THE COST VERSUS PASSENGER TRIP, BECAUSE NOT NOT EVERY PLACE IS GOOD FOR GOZONE, AND NOT EVERY PLACE IS GOOD FOR FIXED ROUTE. AND THEY NEED TO WORK TOGETHER. THIS IS PUTTING YOU ON THE SPOT A BIT. DO YOU KNOW RIGHT NOW WHAT THE TYPICAL COST PER PASSENGER TRIP IS FOR GO ZONE? I KNOW IT'S USUALLY IN THE 12 TO 15.

>> ABOUT $12. >> IT'S ABOUT $12 RIGHT NOW. >> AS OF LAST YEAR.

>> OKAY, GREAT. AND THEN I APPRECIATE THE WORK TO TRY TO SPEED UP THE TRAIN. I MEAN, IT CERTAINLY IT NEEDS TO BE COMPETITIVE WITH I-35 TO A LARGE DEGREE. IF IT'S NOT COMPETITIVE ENOUGH, PEOPLE AREN'T GOING TO RIDE IT. SO ONE OF MY UNDERSTANDINGS IS THAT THE TRAIN USED TO BE A LITTLE FASTER FROM END TO END, AND WHEN IT SLOWED DOWN, IT WAS PARTLY BECAUSE OF THE POSITIVE TRAIN CONTROL. AND I GUESS WHICH PRODUCT WE PURCHASED. IS THAT CORRECT? ARE THERE ANY PLANS OR OPPORTUNITIES TO SORT OF SPEED IT UP IN THAT REGARD IN THE FUTURE?

>> SO ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE DOING WITH THE CURVE AND SPEED IMPROVEMENTS IS REWORKING SOME OF THE CODE THAT CONTROLS BRAKING DISTANCES AND THINGS LIKE THAT, SO THAT WE CAN TRY TO

GET SOME OF THAT TIME BACK. >> GOTCHA. I THINK THAT'S ALL I HAVE. THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> YES, MA'AM. >> REPRESENTATIVE. DISTRICT ONE. >> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE WITH YOU. SPEAKING ON THESE THINGS. I DO FEEL LIKE YOU'VE REALLY HEARD US. I KNOW THAT WE WERE LOUD AND PROUD. SO THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR DOING A DEEP DIVE AND ALLOWING US TO BE PROUD OF ROUTE THREE. COMING BACK, THOSE MY CONSTITUENTS TALKED ABOUT ROUTE THREE QUITE A BIT.

SO THANK YOU AGAIN. FOR SOME REASON I WROTE VISION ZERO FOR THE CITY. AND I BELIEVE THAT WHATEVER YOU SAID PROMPTED ME TO WRITE THAT. AND I SEE FARHAD BUTTS HERE. SO THE QUESTION IS,

HOW IS THIS FITTING INTO OUR ZERO VISION PLAN FOR US? >> AND WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT

VISION ZERO, ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE SAFETY INCIDENTS? >> YES.

>> SO OUR OUR GOAL IS ZERO INCIDENTS ON THE SYSTEM. AND SO I THINK WE ARE OF LIKE MIND IN THAT. AND THE WAY THAT WE'RE DOING THAT IS BY HAVING STOOD UP A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, A SAFETY FUNCTION INSIDE THE AGENCY. WE'VE STILL GOT A LOT OF WORK TO DO. WE BUILT A GOOD FOUNDATION TO UNDERSTAND, TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT'S HAPPENING, WHY IT'S HAPPENING, AND HOW WE FIX THOSE THINGS. AND THEN AS WE TALK WITH YOUR STAFF ABOUT WHERE BUS STOPS NEED TO BE LOCATED, AND WE GOT TO TALK ABOUT WHERE'S WHAT'S IMPORTANT FOR A RIDERSHIP PERSPECTIVE, AND THEN ALSO WHAT'S IMPORTANT FROM A SAFETY PERSPECTIVE. I CAN GIVE YOU REALLY QUICK EXAMPLE. WHEN WE LAUNCHED THE 18 NEW BUS STOPS THAT IT TOOK LAST SUMMER TO GET THE RESULTS THAT WE JUST DID, WE RAN THAT, WE RAN THAT THROUGH OUR BUS OPERATORS. ACTUALLY, WE SET UP BOARDS IN THE, IN THE, IN THE READY ROOM AND SAID, WHAT DO YOU THINK? AND THE BUS DRIVER SAID, HEY, THIS STOP IS NOT

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THE OTHER AND WE'RE REALLY TRYING TO DRIVE THAT. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ALSO, DO YOU ALL HAVE A PLAN FOR. A PLAN TO SET UP THESE STOPS? YOU KNOW, WHERE THEY HAVE A CONTINUITY TYPE VIBE? IS IT SOME HAVE SHELTERS, SOME DON'T, YOU KNOW. HOW DOES THAT WORK?

>> YES, MA'AM. GREAT QUESTION. SO THE FIRST THING THAT I DID WHEN I GOT IN THE SEAT WAS TAKE AN INVENTORY OF WHERE ALL OF OUR STOPS WERE, AND WE HAVE NOW WE HAVE A LIST. WE UNDERSTAND WHAT THE AMENITIES ARE WE JUST COMPLETED OR ARE WRAPPING UP THIS YEAR, A BUS STOP STANDARDS DOCUMENT THAT SAYS, THIS IS HOW DCTA DOES BUS STOPS. THERE'S PROBABLY 4 OR 5 DIFFERENT TYPES OF BUS STOPS FROM A BASIC STOP ALL THE WAY TO A TRANSFER CENTER, AND THE TYPE OF STOP IS BASED ON WHAT'S THE VOLUME OF PASSENGERS THAT GO THROUGH IT AND THAT DRIVES WHAT AMENITIES ARE IN PLACE. AND SO WITH THAT STANDARDS DOCUMENT, NOW WE'RE GOING TO START LOOKING AT WHAT ARE THE HIGHEST, WHAT ARE THE HIGHEST USE STOPS AND HOW DO WE IMPROVE THOSE FIRST. AND THAT'S WHERE WE GET THE OPPORTUNITY TO ENGAGE WITH THE COMMUNITY AND SAY, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE THINKING. WHAT DO YOU THINK? AND FIGURE OUT HOW TO WEAVE THAT INTO THE FABRIC OF WHAT YOU ALL

HAVE HERE IN DENTON? >> WITH THE ADVENT OF US OBVIOUSLY HAVING MORE MULTIFAMILY COMING UP. DO YOU ALL TRY TO GET IN FRONT OF THAT OR YOU ALL ARE KIND OF WAITING

ON, YOU KNOW, TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS. >> IN OUR IN OUR PRESENTATION TO THE BOARD? I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS IN JUNE OR IN MAY. WE TALKED ABOUT WHAT WE SEE ALONG UNIVERSITY DRIVE AND WHAT WE SEE ALONG ROUTE THREE, AND WHAT WE SEE ALONG THE CORRIDOR FROM ALONG THE LOOP TO THE COLORADO EXPRESS ROUTE AND THE MED PARK STATION. WE HIGHLIGHTED ALL THE MULTIFAMILY THAT'S IN DEVELOPMENT OR THAT IS COMING OUT OF THE GROUND. AGAIN, GREAT RELATIONSHIP WITH YOUR DEVELOPMENT SERVICES STAFF WHO'S GIVEN US THAT DATA AND THEN THAT THAT HELPS JUSTIFY KIND OF FLESH OUT OUR CORE NETWORK. AND THEN WE CAN USE THAT SAME DATA SET TO

FIGURE OUT WHERE WE GO FROM FROM THERE. >> WELL, AGAIN, I CERTAINLY DO APPRECIATE YOU ALL JUST HEARING US AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR GOOD WORK.

>> YES, MA'AM. THANK YOU. >> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, REPRESENTATIVE DISTRICT SIX.

>> I JUST WANT TO ECHO SOME OF THE SENTIMENTS ALREADY. THE PRESENTATION HAS BEEN VERY IMPRESSIVE. THE PROGRESS HAS BEEN WONDERFUL. AND THEN YOU KNOW WHERE THE INFORMATION IS COMING FROM, HOW IT'S BEING UTILIZED AND SEEING THE EFFECT. I DO BELIEVE IT'S BEEN TRANSFORMATIONAL. AND I LOOK FORWARD TO THE NEXT ERA OF OPTIMIZING AS AS WE KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE IN DENTON EITHER COME HERE TO WORK FROM OTHER PLACES OR LIVE HERE AND THEN GO TO WORK OTHER PLACES. YOU KNOW, WE WE'RE LOOKING MORE AND MORE AT HOW THE REGION MOVES AROUND AND THE POPULATION COMING UP AND 2050. YES, MA'AM. AT WHAT LEVEL ARE THE CONVERSATIONS HAPPENING AS FAR AS CONNECTING WHAT WE HAVE TO THE OTHER REGIONS, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT THE BOARD LOOKS

AT? IS THAT A STAFF LEVEL AND HOW DOES THAT WORK WITHIN DCTA? >> SO PRACTICALLY IT'S I THINK IT STARTS WITH THE RELATIONSHIPS THAT EXIST BETWEEN OUR BOARD MEMBERS AND THEIR COUNTERPARTS AT DART AND TRINITY METRO, AND THEN ALSO THE RELATIONSHIPS THAT I HAVE WITH MY COUNTERPARTS AT THOSE AGENCIES. IT'S THOSE KINDS OF CONVERSATIONS THAT HAVE LED US TO THE PATH WE'RE ON FOR THE DOWNTOWN CARROLLTON EXTENSION ON THE A TRAIN. AND THEN AS WE OBSERVE THE CONVERSATION BETWEEN TRINITY METRO AND THE REGIONAL COUNCIL OF GOVERNMENTS ABOUT AN EXPRESS BUS SERVICE UP I-35W FROM DOWNTOWN FORT WORTH TO ALLIANCE. AND THEN WE GET TO THINK ABOUT HOW DO WE CONNECT ON THAT CORRIDOR AS WELL. SO THE REGIONAL TRANSIT CONVERSATION TO YOUR POINT, IS GAINING SOME MOMENTUM. AND I THINK IT'S GOING TO CREATE THE FORUM FOR THAT. AND WE'RE PREPARED TO ENGAGE AND SPEND WHATEVER TIME WE NEED TO IN ORDER TO MAKE THAT MAKE THAT WORK.

>> A COUPLE OF OTHER QUESTIONS, MAYOR. THANK YOU. I KNOW IT GOES WITHOUT SAYING, BUT I ASSUME THERE ARE LOTS OF PREPARATIONS ON THEIR WAY FOR THE WORLD CUP, AS THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S ON EVERYONE'S MIND AS FAR AS HOW ARE WE GOING TO MOVE PEOPLE AROUND? I ASSUME THERE ARE

PREPARATIONS AS FAR AS INCREASED TIMES OR INCREASED SECURITY, OR. >> WE HAVE NOT RECEIVED A SPECIFIC ASK FROM THE REGION. WE HAVE BEEN LISTENING TO THE CONVERSATION. OBVIOUSLY, IT'S PRIMARILY BETWEEN DART AND TRINITY, METRO AND ARLINGTON AND OTHERS, BUT WE KNOW THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME ACTIVITY CENTER IN THE CITY OF FRISCO AND OTHER PLACES. AGAIN, HAVE NOT RECEIVED A SPECIFIC ASK, BUT ARE ARE READY TO LISTEN IF ANYTHING COMES UP TO FULFILL OUR ROLE.

[00:35:01]

>> GREAT, WONDERFUL. AND I FORGOT MY LAST QUESTION. SO LUCKY YOU. I WILL LET YOU GO.

IT'S YOUR DAY. THANK YOU MAYOR. >> THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? REPRESENTATIVE?

DISTRICT ONE. >> DO WE STILL HAVE A REPRESENTATIVE FOR THE CITY IN MY. HAVE I MISSED SOMETHING AWESOME? OH, AND PAT SMITH IS HERE AS THE ALTERNATE. YES, SIR.

JUST HAD TO HAVE MY MEMORIES DESERVED. THANK YOU. >> YES, MA'AM.

>> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? >> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME. >> SO THANK YOU FOR THE PRESENTATION, FOR YOUR YOUR WORK. I AM EXCITED ABOUT THE OPPORTUNITY TO GET TO THE AIRPORT. THOSE THINGS. THAT'S THAT'S A REALLY BIG, BIG OPPORTUNITY. AND SO OTHER THAN THAT THOUGH, I WOULD ASK BECAUSE WE ARE AS MUCH AS WE'RE ALIGNED, WE ARE TWO SEPARATE ENTITIES.

RIGHT. AND SO I'VE ALWAYS FOUND WHERE I'M GOING WITH THIS IS I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THOSE DISTINCTIONS AND ALSO YOUR ACCESSIBILITY AND YOUR YOUR BOARD'S ACCESSIBILITY AND THOSE SORT OF THINGS. AND SO I WOULD ENCOURAGE THOSE HERE, IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS, REACH OUT. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE BEST PROCESS IS. I'LL ASK FOR YOUR DIRECTION ON KIND OF HOW BEST TO REACH OUT TO WHOMEVER OR HOW YOU PREFER THOSE TO BE FUNNELED, BUT I JUST, I WANT TO HAVE I'VE EXPERIENCED JUST KIND OF THE OPEN COMMUNICATION DIALOG. AND SO THAT TO ME IS BETTER THAN SITTING IN A BUNCH OF MEETINGS AND HAVING, YOU KNOW, THREE MINUTES OF TALK. IT'S BETTER TO SIT DOWN, GRAB COFFEE, AND BE UNINTERRUPTED. AND SO I WANT TO TEE THAT UP YOUR THOUGHTS. AND WHAT'S THE BEST WAY IF A COUNCIL MEMBER WANTS TO HAVE ONGOING DISCUSSIONS VERSUS, YOU KNOW, AN

ENVIRONMENT WHERE YOU MAY FEEL LIKE YOU CAN'T AIR IT OUT. >> YOU KNOW, AS A AS A PERSON, I'M ALWAYS OPEN FOR A CONVERSATION. OBVIOUSLY, WE SERVE THREE DIFFERENT CITY COUNCILS AND MANY MEMBERS AND ALL THAT SORT OF STUFF. BUT I'D SAY LET LET'S TALK. YOU KNOW, M, MY SARAH KNOWS HOW TO GET AHOLD OF ME AND CAN CAN MAKE THAT MAKE THAT HAPPEN. BUT GLAD TO GRAB COFFEE AND HELP PEOPLE UNDERSTAND WHATEVER THEY LIKE OR ANSWER WHATEVER QUESTIONS THEY HAVE. WE ULTIMATELY THE DIALOG AND THE RELATIONSHIP IS WHAT HELPS US GET THINGS DONE, AND SO

I'M HAPPY TO FACILITATE THAT HOWEVER I CAN. >> GREAT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

APPRECIATE IT. GREAT PRESENTATION. THANK YOU, PAT AND JACKIE. APPRECIATE Y'ALL. OKAY.

[B. Receive a report, hold a discussion, and give staff direction regarding the preliminary FY 2025-26 City Manager’s Proposed Budget and Schedule of Fees. [Estimated Presentation/Discussion Time: 1 hour]]

>> GOOD AFTERNOON. MAYOR COUNCIL CASSEY OGDEN, DEPUTY CITY MANAGER I'M FILLING IN FOR CHRISTINE TAYLOR WHILE SHE'S OUT, SO I'M A LITTLE RUSTY ON THE BUDGET, BUT SO BEAR WITH ME.

WE WILL GET THROUGH THIS. BUT WE WANTED TO PROVIDE AN UPDATE OF SOME OF THE FEE FEES THAT WE ARE PROPOSING TO CHANGE BEGINNING OCTOBER 1ST. SO SOME OF THESE YOU HAVE ALREADY SEEN BEFORE, INCLUDING SPECIAL EVENT FEES, BUT WANTED TO GIVE YOU A COMPREHENSIVE VIEW OF THE FEES.

WE WILL ALSO TALK ABOUT THE ENTERPRISE FUNDS. THE ONLY ONE YOU HAVE NOT SEEN YET IS THE AIRPORT FUND, AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT THE TOTAL EXPECTED BILL IMPACT AND ANY FOLLOW UP ITEMS FROM OUR AUGUST 9TH BUDGET WORKSHOP. SO JUST A LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND, WE DID TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE FEES THROUGHOUT THE LAST FISCAL YEAR. POLICE TOWING FEES WERE UPDATED IN NOVEMBER, DEVELOPMENT SERVICES FEES WERE UPDATED IN MAY, AND THEN ANIMAL SERVICES FEES WERE UPDATED IN JUNE. YOU HAD A DISCUSSION AT A WORK SESSION IN JUNE ABOUT SPECIAL EVENT FEES. WE'VE INCLUDED THEM IN THIS PRESENTATION. THEY WILL BE ADOPTED AS PART OF THE OVERALL FEE AND BUDGET ADOPTION IN SEPTEMBER. SO JUST WANTED TO BRIEFLY HIGHLIGHT THESE. YOU YOU SAW THESE ON JUNE 3RD AND GAVE YOUR DIRECTION TO PROCEED. WE HAVE UPDATED THE SPECIAL EVENT RATES REALLY BASED ON PERSONNEL INCREASES BASED ON POLICE AND FIRE INCREASES IN EACH OF THE PROPOSED RATES. SO POLICE OFFICER RATES CHANGES. AND THEN YOU SEE THE FIRE SPECIAL EVENT RATES ANYWHERE FROM FIREFIGHTER EMS AND FIRE MARSHAL ALL CHANGING DUE TO THE JUST THE COST OF THE PERSONNEL PER HOUR. THE SPECIAL EVENT FEE APPLICATIONS. WE ADDED TIERS TO

[00:40:09]

HOWEVER, WE'RE BRINGING THEM FORWARD NOW. WE HAVE SOME UPDATES JUST DUE TO OUR COSTS.

SO THESE ARE ALL DIFFERENT TYPES OF CALLS THAT EMS RESPONDS TO. SO BASIC LIFE SUPPORT, ADVANCED LIFE SUPPORT AND THEN THE ADVANCED LIFE SUPPORT TO AND I SHOULD MENTION THE DIRECTORS ARE HERE. IF YOU HAVE SPECIFIC QUESTIONS REGARDING THE INDIVIDUAL FEES THAT I CANNOT ANSWER. SO AGAIN THESE HAVE NOT BEEN UPDATED IN A WHILE, BUT IT WAS A RESULT OF AN INTERNAL AUDIT RECOMMENDATION THAT WE REVIEW THESE FEES AND UPDATE THEM ACCORDINGLY. SO AGAIN THE EMS FEES THESE ARE MEDICAL SERVICE FEES. SO REALLY THE COST, OUR COST OF ACQUIRING THE SUPPLIES MEDICATION HAS INCREASED SINCE THE LAST TIME WE'VE CHANGED THE FEE. SO WE'RE INCREASING IT DUE TO OUR COST. AND THEN AGAIN ON THE PROPOSED FEES, THE EMERGENCY STANDBY REALLY RELATED AGAIN TO SOME SPECIAL EVENTS, FIRE PREVENTION FEES. A LOT OF THESE ARE CLARIFICATION LANGUAGE THAT WILL BRING FORWARD IN THE ORDINANCE AND THE RED LINES. AND THEN FOLLOW UP REINSPECTION FEES ARE INCREASING OR PROPOSING TO INCREASE. AND WE DID GET A QUESTION AHEAD OF TIME ABOUT THE ANNUAL INSPECT. THESE ARE BASED ON AN ANNUAL INSPECTION AND BASED ON THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE PROPERTY THAT THEY ARE INSPECTING. SO MOVING ON, THE TEMPORARY MEMBRANE STRUCTURES AND TENTS, THERE WAS AN ERROR IN THE PRESENTATION THAT WAS POSTED. THIS IS ALREADY A FEE SO THAT WE'RE NOT PROPOSING TO CHANGE THAT FEE AMOUNT. IT'S ALREADY $35. JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY THAT. SO IT'S INCORRECT IN THE BACKUP. AND THEN YOU CAN SEE OUR TRAINING FACILITY FEE UPDATES BASED ON THE RENTAL TYPE AND WHAT THE ACTIVITY IS THAT THEY'RE USING THE FACILITY FOR. AND THEN PROPOSING TO CHANGE SOME OF OUR ADDITIONAL FEES. SO APPARATUSES AND THEN JUST SOME CLARIFYING LANGUAGE IN THE OVERALL DESCRIPTIONS, AS WELL AS INCREASING THE FEES BASED ON OUR OUR COST TO PROVIDE THESE. THE. THE GAS LEAK FEES ARE NEW THIS YEAR. THIS IS A NEW PROPOSAL. WE HAVEN'T PREVIOUSLY HAD THESE FEES, BUT WE ARE FINDING WE'RE SPENDING A LOT OF TIME ON ON THESE TYPES OF CALLS. AND SO BASED ON OUR CURRENT COSTS AND THEN ALSO KIND OF INDUSTRY BEST PRACTICES AND WHAT SOME OTHER CITIES ARE DOING, THE FIRE IS PROPOSING TO ADD THESE TO THE FEE SCHEDULE THIS YEAR. AND CHIEF HEDGES IS HERE IF YOU HAVE MORE IF YOU HAVE SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT THESE. SO MAYOR, I'M GOING TO PAUSE THERE. IF YOU HAVE

QUESTIONS ON FIRE EMS. BEFORE I MOVE ON TO THE NEXT SECTION. >> OKAY. THANK YOU.

REPRESENTATIVE FROM DISTRICT FOUR THREE AND TWO. >> THANK YOU, THANK YOU. TELL ME

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LIFE SUPPORT AND LIFE SUPPORT TO. >> I WILL HAVE TO ASK CHIEF HEDGES. HE'S IN THE COUNCIL CHAMBER. SO IT'LL TAKE HIM A MINUTE TO GET HERE. I BELIEVE

IT'S THE TYPE OF WHAT THEY'RE DOING ON THE CALL. HERE HE IS. >> THAT WAS. THAT WAS FAST. I

[00:45:05]

WAS JUST THINKING THAT FIVE. >> MINUTE RESPONSE. >> FORGET 911.

>> I WAS ALREADY HEADING THIS WAY. OKAY, SO KENNETH HEDGES, FIRE CHIEF, I'M SORRY, I DIDN'T HEAR THE QUESTIONS. I WAS WALKING OUT OF THE COUNCIL CHAMBERS, HEADING THIS WAY.

>> THANK YOU. CHIEF, I WAS ASKING THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LIFE SUPPORT AND LIFE SUPPORT.

TWO. >> YES. REAL SIMPLE. SO ADVANCED LIFE SUPPORT IS ANYTHING WE DO.

THE EKG INTERPRETATION WHEN WE MOVE TO ALS TWO, THAT IS WHEN WE ADMINISTER THREE OR MORE MEDICATIONS. SO THOSE DON'T HAPPEN AS OFTEN. SO IF WE ADMINISTER LIDOCAINE EPINEPHRINE AND THEN ONE OTHER, THEN IT QUALIFIES AN A-LIST TO ALL. THIS IS KIND OF LAID OUT THROUGH THE

INSURANCE. AND HOW THEY REIMBURSED AS WELL. >> IS AN IV A I KNOW THAT'S A

FLUID. IS THAT A FLUID. >> NO. THAT'S JUST ADVANCED LIFE SUPPORT FUNCTION PERFORMING IV AND THE SAVINGS INCLUDED IN THAT. SO THAT'S NOT CONSIDERED AS ONE MEDICATION. IT'S TRULY

MEDICATIONS. >> I GOT IT. THANK YOU. >> REPRESENTATIVE DISTRICT

THREE. >> CHIEF HEDGES. SO FOR THE PERSONNEL COST IS THE RATE BASED

ON THE BUDGETED SALARIES OR OVERTIME OR SORT OF A MIX. >> WHICH.

>> SO I THINK SOME WERE BROKEN DOWN BY WHICH PERSON WAS THERE. IS IT THIS THAT. YES.

>> MR. I THINK, I THINK THAT IS CALCULATED ON. YEAH. I DON'T THINK WE DID BENEFITS. THAT'S JUST BASE SALARY. I THINK WHAT WE DID CURRENTLY PROCESS IS WE JUST TOOK AN AVERAGE OF THAT RANK. SO FOR INSTANCE FIREFIGHTERS ARE SIX STEPS. SO WE TOOK ALL SIX STEPS AND TOOK AN AVERAGE OF THAT. SO CERTAIN TIMES BASED ON WHO WAS HIRED, IF WE HAD SPECIAL EVENT FOR INSTANCE I'LL USE UT FOOTBALL GAMES. WE HAD TO HIRE EIGHT DIFFERENT PERSONNEL TO STAFF THAT WE MAY GET ANYWHERE FROM A BATTALION CHIEF TO WORK ALL THE WAY TO A FIREFIGHTER. AND THEN WE JUST KIND OF HAD TO AVERAGE THIS NOW WILL ACTUALLY GIVE US A RANGE ON ALL THE STEPS, AND WE CAN BILL ACCORDINGLY ON THE INVOICE AS WELL. OKAY. THANK YOU.

>> REPRESENTATIVE FROM DISTRICT TWO. >> THANK YOU. SO A LOT OF THE FEES, ESPECIALLY ON SOME OF THE RESPONSES THAT WE NOT REALLY ADDRESSED IN THE PAST, BUT WE'RE ADDING IN NOW, ESPECIALLY THOSE THAT ARE ADJUSTED BY WHO RESPONDS. ARE THESE ARE THESE TYPICALLY PAID? I MEAN YOU MAY NOT KNOW THE ANSWER BECAUSE THESE ARE WHAT YOU'RE CHARGING BECAUSE OF THEIR YOUR COSTS, BUT ARE THEY TYPICALLY PAID BY THE END USER, THE INSURANCE, SOME

SORT OF PROVIDER? DO YOU KNOW WHO TYPICALLY. >> CAN YOU BE SPECIFIC ON THE

FEES WE HAVE LISTED HERE. >> SO YEAH, I JUST IT'S SORT OF A GENERIC QUESTION FOR ESPECIALLY FOR, YOU KNOW, LIKE I KNOW AMBULANCES TYPICALLY COVERED BY INSURANCE IF YOU HAVE INSURANCE. BUT SOME OF THESE OTHERS LIKE LYFT ASSIST WAS CAME UP IN THE QUESTIONS. AND I'M SORT OF JUST SORT OF TRYING TO LUMP IT ALL INTO ONE IN THE GENERAL SENSE OF ARE THESE GENERALLY ABSORBED BY THE END USER, OR ARE THEY GENERALLY ABSORBED BY SOME SORT OF

COVERAGE FOR THE END USER? >> LET ME KIND OF CALL OUT THE LIFT ASSIST. THIS IS A NEW THIS IS ACTUALLY SOMETHING WE'RE IMPLEMENTING THIS NEXT YEAR IF APPROVED BY CITY COUNCIL. THE ISSUE WE HAVE, DID YOU SEE MY RESPONSES ON THE QUESTIONS. SO WE HAVE AN ISSUE WHERE WE ARE CALLED AN NON-EMERGENT BASIS TO NURSING FACILITIES AND ASSISTED LIVING CENTERS IN WHICH A RESIDENT JUST FALLS, NO INJURIES WHATSOEVER. THEIR STAFF REFUSES PER CORPORATE USUALLY TO LIFT THAT PATIENT. INSTEAD THAT RISK IS TRANSFERRED TO THE FIRE DEPARTMENT. WE RESPOND TO ENGINE THREE. PERSONNEL GO OUT THERE, THEY LIFT THE PERSON BACK UP, PUT THEM IN THEIR WHEELCHAIR, THEIR BED, AND THAT'S DONE. SO THAT TAKES UNIT OUT OF SERVICE. SO WE STARTED LOOKING KIND OF ACROSS THE INDUSTRY. AND THERE'S A FEW FIRE DEPARTMENTS THAT HAVE STARTED IMPLEMENTING THESE FEES.

ONE WAS $500 AS WELL. THEY RAN A 12 MONTH PROGRAM AS A DEPARTMENT OUT OF ILLINOIS. BIG THING IS, IT INCENTIVIZED THESE FACILITIES TO CALL THE FIRE DEPARTMENT. SO THEIR LIFT ASSISTS DECREASED BY 60% IN SIX MONTHS. IT REALLY WASN'T ABOUT THE FEE ITSELF, OTHER THAN THE FACT THAT NOW THE FACILITIES HAVE TO PAY, THAT FEE WILL BE ASSESSED TO THE FACILITY AND NOT THE RESIDENT. THEY CAN DO WHAT THEY WANT TO. SO THE LIFT ASSIST, IF WE GO TO FACILITY, WE LIFT SOMEBODY THAT DOES NOT HAVE ANY TYPE OF INJURY. WE WILL BUILD THAT FACILITY DIRECTLY AND WE PLAN TO EDUCATE ALL THESE FACILITIES PRIOR TO THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THIS FEE. SO THAT ONE, I CAN BE

VERY SPECIFIC ABOUT. >> OKAY. I MEAN, I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY A GOOD EXAMPLE. LET ME, LET ME, LET ME LIFT OFF FROM THERE. AND IN GENERAL, I KNOW IN PRIOR DISCUSSIONS YOU'VE HAD WITH COUNCIL AND YOU AND I ONE ON ONE, THERE WAS THIS IDEA THAT, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THE COST WAS TAKING OUR BIG, EXPENSIVE FIRE TRUCKS AND EMS AMBULANCES TO A SITE, AND IT MIGHT AND WE TALKED ABOUT MORE OF A NON-TRANSPORT TRIAGE KIND OF APPROACH TO REDUCE COSTS, BECAUSE SOMETIMES IT WAS JUST THE LABOR OF THE FIREFIGHTERS, AND WE DIDN'T NEED THE BIG EXPENSIVE VEHICLES AT THESE THINGS. I, I DIDN'T REALLY SEE A REFLECTION OF THAT IN ANY OF OUR FEE STRUCTURE. IS THAT STILL TO COME OR WHERE ARE WE IN THE PROCESS OF THAT?

[00:50:01]

>> I THINK KIND OF WHAT YOU'RE BUILDING IS THE FACT THAT FUTURE IMPLEMENTATION OF SQUAD UNITS IN WHICH THEY'LL RUN, INSTEAD OF THE FIRE TRUCK RUNNING WITH A MILLION AND A HALF DOLLAR VEHICLE ON A LOWER EMERGENT CALL WITH AMBULANCE, IS USING A SMALLER VEHICLE. WHAT WE DO HAVE FUNCTION AS TODAY IS CATEGORIZING OUR MEDICAL EMERGENCIES AND INJURED PERSON CALLS TO A TOP ONE PRIORITY ONE PARTY. TWO PRIORITY ONE IS YOU GET BOTH AN ENGINE AND AMBULANCE BECAUSE IT IS OBVIOUSLY BASED ON THE CALL TAKER. IS SOMETHING SIGNIFICANT. A PRIORITY TWO IS LESS EMERGENT. RIGHT NOW WE'RE JUST SENDING AMBULANCES. SO WE'RE ALREADY KIND OF IMPLEMENTING WHAT WE'VE HAD DISCUSSIONS ABOUT AS WELL. SO IT'S REALLY TRIAGING FROM THE VERY FIRST INSTANCE. WHENEVER THE CALL RECEIVES AT 901 AND THEN A TIERED RESPONSE IS WORTH LOOKING AT. SO WE HAVE TWO DIFFERENT CALL TYPES WE ENVISION ROLLING OUT FURTHER, BUT WE'RE REALLY KIND OF DOING SOME DATA REVIEW TO MAKE SURE IT'S HITTING OUR GOALS. AND IT IS. I CAN TELL YOU TWO MONTHS AGO, I THINK JUNE, OUR ENGINE CALLS WERE DOWN BY 30% COMPARED TO JUNE OF LAST YEAR. JUST BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT GOING EVERY MEDICAL CALL NOW, WE'RE ABLE TO PRESERVE THEM AND

ACTUALLY ADD LENGTH TO THE VEHICLE. >> NO, I APPRECIATE THAT. I'M NOT TRYING TO GET IN FRONT OF THE DISCUSSION. I JUST WAS WONDERING IF IT HAD BEEN BAKED INTO SOME OF THE FEES YET OR NOT. AND IT SOUNDS LIKE THE ANSWER IS YOU'RE STILL IN THE

PROCESS OF ROLLING. >> IT OUT, AND THAT'S KIND OF MORE OPERATIONAL. IT'S REALLY NOT GOING TO BE NO FEES ASSESSED ON THAT. THAT'S JUST KIND OF OPERATIONAL READINESS. WHAT WE'RE SEEING AS FAR AS OUR CAPABILITIES AS FAR AS, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT UNITS BASED ON

THE TRUE TYPE OF EMERGENCY. >> I APPRECIATE THAT. THANK YOU. CHIEF.

>> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR DISTRICT ONE? >> FIRE PREVENTION. FIRE

PREVENTION THERE? >> YES, MA'AM. >> I'M NOTICING THAT IT SAYS AT FIRST TO THE LANGUAGE AND THEN UPDATE LANGUAGE. SECOND FOLLOW UP. SO INITIAL FOLLOW UP AS A FIRE PREVENTION. IS THIS THE INSPECTIONS ON LIKE BRAND NEW HOUSES OR BRAND NEW STRUCTURES

OR WHAT IS THAT. >> WE DO NOT INSPECT JUST SINGLE FAMILY DWELLINGS. MULTI-FAMILY COMMERCIAL. YES. THE FIRST INSPECTION IS JUST AN ANNUAL COMPLIANCE INSPECTION THAT IS FREE. OKAY. SO WHAT THEY'RE SAYING HERE IS THE FIRST INSPECTION. SO IF A VIOLATION IS FOUND THE INSPECTOR NOTIFIES THE OWNER AND PROVIDES A PIECE OF DOCUMENTATION WHAT NEEDS TO BE CORRECTED AND GIVES THEM A DATE IN WHICH THEY'LL RETURN. RIGHT. SO THAT IS REASON WHY IT'S CALLED FIRST. AND THEN BELOW IS THE SECOND TIME THEY HAD TO COME BACK OUT FOR A SECOND INSPECTION, WHICH TECHNICALLY WOULD BE THE THIRD TIME THEY'RE ON SITE. RIGHT? THAT IS THE

REASON WHY THOSE FEES ARE INCREASING. >> OKAY. AND I SEE THE FREE FEES INCREASING FOR ANYTHING OVER. THE SECOND FOLLOW UP FEE. LOOKS LIKE THE ONLY ONE THAT'S

ACTUALLY INCREASING. >> CORRECT. >> THE FIRST.

>> ONE IS REALLY I THINK THEY WERE JUST LEFT ON HERE BECAUSE WE'RE CHANGING LANGUAGE FROM REINSPECTION TO FIRST REINSPECTION AND THEN SECOND REINSPECTION FOR LANGUAGE

CLARIFICATION. >> AND SO THESE THEY HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH ANY KIND OF

STRUCTURE THAT'S HAD A FIRE. IT'S JUST THE PREVENTIVE. >> PART, NEW CONSTRUCTION. THE WAY WE HAVE IT, TIERED IS WHAT WE DEEM A HIGH HAZARD TO EITHER LOSS OF LIFE OR PROPERTY THAT IS INSPECTED ON AN ANNUAL BASIS. AND IT'S AN INTERMEDIATE IS TWO YEARS THEN LOW HAZARD, SOME TYPE OF SMALL GIFT SHOP WITH VERY SMALL SQUARE FOOTAGE THAT WOULD PROBABLY BE DEEMED A LOW HAZARD.

IT'S INSPECTED ONE TIME EVERY THREE YEARS. >> OKAY. THANK YOU.

>> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? THANK YOU CHIEF. THANKS. >> OKAY. MOVING INTO POLICE FEE CHANGES. WE ARE INCREASING OUR COURSE TUITION FOR THE TRAINING ACADEMY. PROPOSING TO FOR NEXT YEAR. 1250. EXCUSE ME. TO 2300 FIREARMS RANGE. INCREASING THOSE THOSE COSTS OF RENTING THE RANGE. THERE WAS ALSO A QUESTION ABOUT THE ESCORT AND CHAUFFEUR LICENSE FEES. THOSE ARE NOT BEING PROPOSED TO CHANGE. THOSE ARE ALREADY IN PLACE. AND WE ARE NOT PROPOSING TO CHANGE THE FEE.

RECORDS MANAGEMENT. SEVERAL CHANGES FROM THE BACKUP. WE ALREADY HAVE ALL OF THESE FEES.

WE ARE PROPOSING TO INCREASE SEVERAL OF THE FEES. I WANTED TO POINT OUT SOME OF THE. THE SOLICITOR PERMIT IS INCREASING BY $10, THE ALARM PERMIT INCREASING BY $45. SOME OF THE JUST GENERAL RECORDS FEES ARE INCREASING. AND THEN SOME OF THE REPORTING FEES. ANY QUESTIONS ON

POLICE. >> QUESTIONS FOR STAFF ON POLICING REPRESENTATIVE FROM

DISTRICT SIX. >> COUNCILPERSON CHESTER AND THANK YOU FOR SUBBING IN TODAY.

WE CERTAINLY APPRECIATE YOU TAKING OVER THE PRESENTATION AND YOU'RE DOING A GREAT JOB. ONE

[00:55:04]

THE LARGE INCREASE. YOU KNOW, MY INITIAL THOUGHT IS DOES IT DISCOURAGE APPLICANTS SINCE WE'RE CURRENTLY NOT AT OUR WISHFUL NUMBER OF OFFICERS AND STAFF? SO I JUST WANTED TO ASK

THAT QUESTION. >> I'LL LET CHIEF ROBLEDO ANSWER THAT.

>> EXCELLENT. >> SHE'S ASKING ABOUT THE INCREASE.

>> OH, ABSOLUTELY. >> IS THIS. >> GOING TO JESSICA ROBLEDO, POLICE CHIEF, DENTON POLICE DEPARTMENT? I MISSED THE QUESTION. WAS IT ABOUT THE

INCREASE ON THE ACADEMY? >> I JUST WANTED TO AND THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE. BY THE WAY, WHAT I WANTED WAS YOUR FEEDBACK REGARDING, DO WE HAVE ANY KIND OF CONCERN THAT THIS IS GOING TO DECREASE THE NUMBER OF APPLICANTS TO THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, KNOWING THAT WE ARE NOT FULLY STAFFED RIGHT NOW, AND IT JUST SEEMS LIKE A LARGE INCREASE, WHICH I CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND WITH EVERYTHING GOING UP. BUT WHAT I DON'T WANT TO DO IS DISCOURAGE PEOPLE THAT MIGHT BE EXCELLENT IN THIS, THESE POSITIONS THAT WE NEED HERE IN TOWN.

>> VERY GOOD QUESTION. VERY GOOD QUESTION. ABSOLUTELY. WHERE I COME FROM IN CENTRAL TEXAS, IT'S ACTUALLY $3,000. SO WE'RE STILL ON THE LOW END OKAY. AND NO, THIS IS NOT AFFECTING OUR OUR AGENCY'S JOINING OUR ACADEMY OKAY. SO THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH OUR INTERNAL CANDIDATES.

>> WONDERFUL. THANK YOU SO MUCH AGAIN. APPRECIATE YOU BEING HERE.

>> YEAH. OTHER QUESTIONS FOR POLICE. VERY GOOD. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. APPRECIATE IT.

>> YES, SIR. >> THANK YOU. LIBRARY FEES. WE HAVE A FEW CHANGES TO OR WE'RE PROPOSING A FEW INCREASES. SO LAST DVD OR MUSIC CD DAMAGED OF THE RFID TAG AND LOST OR DAMAGED DISCOVERY KIT. THOSE INCREASES. AND THEN OUR 3D PRINTING FEES JUST BASED ON OUR, OUR COST OF SERVICE FOR THOSE MATERIALS, ARE BEING PROPOSED TO INCREASE. AND I'M HAPPY TO TAKE ANY QUESTIONS

BEFORE WE MOVE ON TO PARKS. >> QUESTION LIBRARY FEES. OKAY. THANK YOU.

>> MOVING ON TO OUR PROPOSED PARK FEE CHANGES. OUR REC PASS CHANGES ARE BEING PROPOSED TO INCREASE DEPENDING ON THE TIER AND THE TYPE. SO AGAIN, BASED ON THE COST RECOVERY MODEL THAT COUNCIL ADOPTED IN MARCH OF 202. AND THESE ALL OF THESE PROPOSED FEES HAVE BEEN REVIEWED AND RECOMMENDED FOR APPROVAL BY THE PARKS REC AND BEAUTIFICATION BOARD. SO CHANGES TO THE MEMORIAL BENCH. THIS IS BASED ON HOW MUCH IT COSTS US TO ACQUIRE THE BENCH INCREASES TO PLOTS FOR THE CEMETERY, INCREASES FOR ROOM RENTALS AT THE SENIOR CENTER AND REC CENTERS. YOU CAN SEE THOSE AS WELL AS ATHLETIC FACILITY RENTAL. $5 INCREASES AND THEN INCREASES FOR THE TOURNAMENT FEES PER FIELD PER DAY, AND THEN PAVILION RENTALS AND THEN SOME COURT RENTAL INCREASES. AND WE DO HAVE ONE REDUCTION FOR THE MOUNTAIN BIKE TRAIL RENTAL. SORRY. THEN WE ARE PROPOSING INCREASES TO THE AQUATIC RENTALS FOR THE NATATORIUM AND, AND THE WATER PARK. YOU CAN SEE. THE CURRENT YEAR AND THEN THE CHANGE. SO WATER PARK $25 INCREASE FOR THE FIRST HOUR AND THEN THE NATATORIUM ADMISSIONS AND MEMBERSHIPS. SO ANYWHERE FROM 10 TO $1 INCREASE FOR THOSE MEMBERSHIP RATES. AND GARY IS HERE IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT THESE. WHEN WE GET TO THE END OF THIS SECTION, ADMISSIONS FOR SEASON PASSES FOR THE WATER PARKS. SO ANYWHERE FROM 5 TO $1 INCREASES FOR DAILY ADMISSION. THE COOLER PASS. WE ARE PROPOSING AN INCREASE OF $15 FOR THE SEASON PASS ASSOCIATED WITH BRINGING THE COOLER INTO THE WATER PARK AND THEN AN ALL ACCESS PASS, SO INCREASES TO OUR OVERALL AQUATIC MEMBERSHIP FOR THE PUBLIC AND RESIDENTS. CIVIC

[01:00:09]

>> REPRESENTATIVE FROM DISTRICT THREE, THEN TWO. >> GARY, I COULD REALLY ASK THIS OF ANY DIRECTOR, BUT I WAS CURIOUS JUST BROADLY WHAT THE PROCESS IS TO DETERMINE WHAT AN APPROPRIATE FEE IS IN SOME CASES, AND YOU CAN CHOOSE ANY EXAMPLE YOU WANT, BUT FOR SOME OF THEM, I'M JUST CURIOUS WHAT THE VERY BROAD PROCESS IS FOR DETERMINING HOW MUCH THIS

SERVICE COSTS AND HOW SHOULD WE PRICE IT CORRECTLY. >> SO A FEW YEARS AGO, WE WENT THROUGH A FEES AND CHARGES ANALYSIS, AND WE CAME UP WITH A CONTINUUM. AND IT KIND OF PUTS ON THAT CONTINUUM WHERE WE SHOULD FALL IN CERTAIN AREAS ON THAT CHART REGARDS TO COST RECOVERY. SO THAT'S PART OF IT. WE LOOK AT OTHER ORGANIZATIONS SO WE GO OUT AND RESEARCH, YOU KNOW, WHAT OTHER TENNIS CENTERS ARE CHARGING FOR FEES. SO WE USE ALL THAT INFORMATION. AND THEN WE ALSO DO AN ANALYSIS EVERY YEAR. AND WE'RE USUALLY 18 MONTHS IN THE YEAR. BY THE TIME WE GET CLOSING OF THE YEAR'S DATA AND GO BACK TO IDENTIFY WHAT OUR COSTS ARE FOR THAT PROGRAM AND ALLOCATE ALL OF OUR EXPENSES TO ALL OF OUR PROGRAMS TO KIND OF GIVE US AN IDEA WHERE WE'RE AT AND COST RECOVERY AND WHERE THAT SITS ON THE CONTINUUM ITSELF.

>> OKAY, SINCE I WASN'T HERE WHEN THIS WAS ADOPTED, WHAT IS OUR COST RECOVERY RIGHT NOW THAT

WE AIM FOR? >> IT VARIES BASED ON THE PROGRAM. YEAH. AND WE CAN DEFINITELY HAVE A FOLLOW UP AND SHARE THAT WITH YOU SINCE OBVIOUSLY YOU WEREN'T HERE WHEN

THAT HAPPENED. >> ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. >> REPRESENTATIVE FROM DISTRICT

TWO. >> THANK YOU GARY. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU KNOW, I THINK MOST OF THE THESE THINGS ARE, YOU KNOW, SOMEWHAT NOMINAL, YOU KNOW, SORT OF INFLATION COST OF DOING BUSINESS. AND I ASSUME THAT'S THE CASE WITH ALL OF THE FEE STRUCTURES. BUT IT COMES UP EVERY YEAR, AT LEAST EVERY YEAR I'VE BEEN ON COUNCIL, ESPECIALLY FOR THE POOLS BECAUSE THIS THIS IS ONE OF THE ONES THAT, YOU KNOW, UNLIKE THE REC CENTERS, UNLIKE THE TENNIS COURTS AND EVERYTHING ELSE WHERE THEY'RE SORT OF VERY DEMOGRAPHIC BASED AND, AND THE POOLS IN TEXAS ARE SORT OF FUNDAMENTAL TO WHO WE ARE, AND THEY HAVE A DRAMATIC IMPACT, ESPECIALLY ON FOLKS IN LOWER ECONOMIC STRATA AND A FEEDBACK THAT WE CONSTANTLY GET FROM THE POOLS IS, YOU KNOW, WHY? WHY ARE MUNICIPAL POOLS VERSUS OTHER REGIONAL OFFERINGS. AND SO I GET ONE THING THAT CONFUSED ME IS CAN YOU TALK US REAL BRIEFLY BECAUSE I'M TRYING TO FOLLOW THE MAYOR'S GUIDANCE ON THIS. CAN YOU TALK REAL BRIEFLY ON THE REMOVAL OF GOLD AND SORT OF THE RELATIONSHIP OF

SILVER AND PLATINUM TO THIS WHOLE FEE STRUCTURE? >> THE GOLD WAS REMOVED BECAUSE NOBODY WAS USING IT. NOBODY WAS GETTING GOLD. YEAH. SO THAT THAT'S THE SOLE REASON THERE.

WHAT WE TRIED TO DO IS PACKAGE THE, THE SILVER BASED OFF OF WHAT WAS INVOLVED IN THAT. SO WE A COUPLE YEARS AGO WE WENT BACK AND ADDED THINGS TO IT. SO IF YOU GET A SILVER MEMBERSHIP YOU GET DIFFERENT BENEFITS WITHIN THAT. AND IT'S LIKE BUYING UP AT YOUR PASS ON YOUR PASS, YOUR ANNUAL PASS. SO WE THEN WE COMPARE OURSELVES TO HAWAIIAN FALLS, LITTLE SOME OF THE OTHER ENTITIES AND WHAT THEY HAVE IN REGARDS TO COSTS TO TRY TO STAY WITHIN THAT COST RECOVERY GOAL.

>> AND DO YOU I MEAN, I GUESS ARE WE ARE WE ESSENTIALLY MATCHING THE MEDIAN OF THOSE OTHER REGIONAL OFFERINGS OR. I MEAN, BECAUSE AND I, I'M TRYING TO PUT IN CONTEXT THE FEEDBACK THAT I GET FROM THE COMMUNITY ON THESE THINGS. AND SO I'M TRYING TO ASK YOU BECAUSE, YOU KNOW,

YOU DID THE ANALYSIS. >> SO HAWAIIAN FALLS FROM A RESIDENT FEE. THEY DON'T HAVE A RESIDENT FEE. WE'RE CHEAPER THAN HAWAIIAN FALLS FROM LITTLE ELM IS KIND OF OUR NEXT CLOSEST COMPARISON. THEY HAVE A MONTHLY FEE, BUT YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR 12 MONTHS AT ONE TIME, AND THEN YOU CAN GO MONTH TO MONTH, AND WE'RE STILL REALLY CLOSE IN THE SAME PRICE. SO WE ARE RIGHT IN THE BALLPARK WITH THOSE TWO OTHER ENTITIES THAT HAVE SIMILAR FACILITIES.

>> AND FOR THE YOU TALKED ABOUT DROPPING THE GOLD, THE GOLD MEMBERSHIP BECAUSE PEOPLE

[01:05:05]

PURCHASED? IS IT DAILY? WHAT WHAT HOW DO PEOPLE USE OUR POOL? >> SO WE TRY TO HAVE A BALANCE BETWEEN DAILY ADMISSIONS AND SEASONAL. OBVIOUSLY, IF YOU BUY A SEASON PASS AND YOU USE IT EVERY SINGLE DAY, YOU'RE TAKING THE FULL ADVANTAGE OF THAT. YEAH. IF YOU BUY IT AND USE IT TWICE, YOU MAY NOT BE ACHIEVING A BENEFIT. BUYING A PASS. YOU MAY BE BETTER OFF GOING MONTHLY OR IF YOU JUST WANT TO GO DAILY. SO WE TRY TO HAVE A PERCENTAGE THERE. I WANT TO SAY IT'S LIKE 6040 OR 55, 45. IS THAT BREAKDOWN AND HOW WE WANT TO HAVE THAT KIND OF FALL OUT AT THE END OF THE YEAR. AND WE WERE WE'VE BEEN REALLY CLOSE TO FOLLOWING THAT FORMAT.

>> WELL, I'M GOING TO I'M GOING TO DO WHAT I DO EVERY YEAR AND THAT IS URGE US TO KEEP THAT ON A ON AS, AS LEAST COST RECOVERY AS WE POSSIBLY CAN, BECAUSE OUR POOLS HAVE THE BIGGEST IMPACT ON VULNERABLE POPULATIONS. AND, YOU KNOW, I NOTICED THAT YOU HAD IMPLEMENTED SOME OF THAT OF NATATORIUM WATERWORKS VERSUS THE CIVIC CENTER. THE CIVIC CENTER IS OBVIOUSLY MUCH, MUCH, MUCH CHEAPER AND A BETTER BARGAIN FOR THAT REGION. SO I APPLAUD THAT SORT OF TEARING. AND TO THE EXTENT POSSIBLE, I'M GOING TO CONTINUE TO PUSH ON THAT BECAUSE THOSE ARE THOSE ARE REALLY

TIGHTLY CONTROLLED RESOURCES. >> I MEAN, WE'RE WE'RE REALLY FOCUSED ON COST RECOVERY AND TRYING TO BALANCE OUR REVENUES AND EXPENSES, ESPECIALLY AS OUR STAFF SALARIES HAVE GONE UP OVER THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS. COMING OUT OF COVID, WE WERE WE WERE WE MADE OURSELVES VERY COMPETITIVE IN THAT MARKET TO A POINT WHERE WE'VE BEEN HIRING AND REHIRING STAFF AT A MUCH EASIER PACE THAN WE HAD IN THE PAST. SO THE PROS AND CONS OF THAT IS THE RATES ARE HIGHER PER HOUR FOR OUR EMPLOYEES. SO THAT'S GONE UP SINCE COVID, AND WE'RE TRYING TO BALANCE THAT AND MAKE SURE WE'RE COVERING OUR COSTS AS MUCH AS WE CAN TO TAKE THE BURDEN OFF THE GENERAL FUND.

>> ALL RIGHT, I APPRECIATE THAT. THANK YOU. >> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR

PARKS? ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. >> AND NOW WE'RE GOING TO SHIFT TO LOOKING AT OUR ENTERPRISE FUNDS. AGAIN. THESE ARE FUNDS THAT OPERATE MORE LIKE A BUSINESS. SO REVENUES COMING IN SHOULD MATCH EXPENSES GOING OUT. THEY'RE SELF-SUPPORTING. AND THEY'RE EACH EACH COLLECT RATES TO SUPPORT THEIR OPERATIONS. SO THE AIRPORT IS THE ONLY FUND IN THIS GROUP THAT YOU HAVE NOT SEEN YET. I AM HAPPY TO REPORT THAT WE ARE WE'RE MAKING A LOT OF GOOD STRIDES IN OUR AIRPORT FUND. SO YOU CAN SEE THAT WE HAVE ABOUT A $3.1 MILLION PROPOSED BEGINNING FUND BALANCE FOR NEXT YEAR IN OUR AIRPORT FUND. CURRENTLY, THIS FUND DOES NOT HAVE A FUND BALANCE TARGET, BUT WE DO. WE HAVE BEEN TRYING TO WORK TOWARDS LESSENING THE AIRPORT IMPACT ON THE GENERAL FUND. AND SO WE'VE MADE SIGNIFICANT STRIDES IN THAT AREA. RYAN AND HIS TEAM HAVE DONE A FANTASTIC JOB OF LOOKING AT THIS AND MAKING SURE THAT WE ARE WE'RE BEING MORE SUSTAINABLE IN THIS FUND. WE DO HAVE REVENUE FUNDING BUILT IN FOR VEHICLE REPLACEMENT IN THIS FUND, WHICH IS NOT BEEN HISTORICALLY THE CASE. SO THAT THAT IS GOOD NEWS. AND THEN WE DO ANTICIPATE SOME PURCHASES FROM TEX DOT IN FUTURE YEARS THAT WE DO HAVE PROGRAMED IN THE IN THE BUDGET. SO YOU'LL SEE KIND OF AN INCREASE IN OUR IN OUR FUND BALANCE. AGAIN THAT'S IN A FUTURE YEAR. SO IF THAT CHANGES OUR PROJECTIONS WILL CHANGE. BUT I WANTED TO ALSO MENTION THAT THE AIRPORT ADVISORY BOARD DID REVIEW THESE FEES OR THIS PROPOSAL LAST WEEK AND RECOMMENDED APPROVAL TO COUNCIL FOR THIS BUDGET. SO HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY SPECIFIC QUESTIONS ABOUT THE PROFORMA.

>> OKAY. >> CITY MANAGER. >> I DON'T KNOW WHO WAS HERE. I KNOW COUNCIL MEMBER I THINK BECK WAS HERE AND MAYBE COUNCIL MEMBER BYRD. THE MAYOR I KNOW WAS, IF YOU RECALL, A COUPLE OF BUDGET YEARS AGO, MAYBE THREE, THIS FUND WAS IN TROUBLE. WE WERE USING GENERAL FUND MONEY TO HELP BALANCE THE AIRPORT BUDGET. AND SO I ALWAYS LIKE TO TAKE A SECOND TO THANK RYAN, BECAUSE RYAN HAS PULLED US OUT OF THE PITS AND REALLY TURNED THIS AROUND. WE'RE NOT DIPPING INTO THE GENERAL FUND TO HELP BALANCE THE BUDGET AT THE AIRPORT. AND SO I WANT TO GIVE BIG KUDOS TO HIM BECAUSE THIS WAS NOT THE CASE FOR MANY YEARS. AND SO HE IS DOING A TREMENDOUS JOB OUT THERE AND JUST WANTED TO RECOGNIZE RYAN.

[01:10:01]

>> VERY GOOD. YEAH I AGREE, THANK YOU. QUESTIONS FOR STAFF ON AIRPORT PROFORMA. I SEE NONE.

>> MOVING ON. WE HAVE JUST A FIVE YEAR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT. YOU SHOULD HAVE SEEN THIS IN THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT DISCUSSION I BELIEVE IN JULY. BUT JUST WANTED TO POINT OUT WE ARE PLANNING ON SOME MATCHES FOR SOME OF THE GRANTS THAT WE HAVE RECEIVED FOR NEXT YEAR. SO NO MORE DEBT FUNDING. THESE ARE REVENUE FUNDS THAT WE'VE BUDGETED BUT WANTED TO MENTION THE INFRASTRUCTURE INVESTMENT JOBS ACT, GRANT MATC, AND THEN JUST SOME MAINTENANCE TYPE ACTIVITIES FOR FENCING, GATES, CAMERAS, THOSE TYPES OF THINGS THAT ARE PROGRAMED FOR NEXT YEAR.

>> OKAY. >> SO MOVING ON TO THE ELECTRIC FUND, I WANTED TO START OUT BY SAYING WE'RE NOT PROPOSING A BASE RATE INCREASE IN ELECTRIC. WE HAD PREVIOUSLY BEEN PROJECTING AN INCREASE FOR THIS YEAR. WE ARE PROJECTING A 0%, HOWEVER YOU CAN SEE IN THE FUTURE YEARS. SO 27 THROUGH 30 WE ARE PROJECTING HIGHER BASE RATE INCREASES. YOU CAN SEE WE ARE ESTIMATING TO END THE YEAR AT A LOSS IN THIS FUND. OBVIOUSLY THE WEATHER HAS NOT COOPERATED WITH US THIS YEAR. WE'VE HAD A LOT OF RAIN AND COOLER SUMMER, SO WE'RE CONTINUING TO REFINE THIS PROFORMA AND OUR ESTIMATES. BUT WE ARE. WE ARE GOING TO END THE YEAR BETTER THAN WE DID IN 2024. YOU CAN SEE WE ENDED WITH AN $18 MILLION LOSS, BUT WE'RE PROJECTING AROUND $1.7 MILLION LOSS IN THE CURRENT YEAR. AND THEN OBVIOUSLY PROPOSING A BALANCED BUDGET NEXT YEAR WITH OUR REVENUES MATCHING OUR EXPENSES. ANY QUESTIONS ON

ELECTRIC. >> QUESTIONS ON ELECTRIC REPRESENTATIVE FROM DISTRICT

TWO? >> THANK YOU. SO I, I KNOW THAT THAT WE'RE TRYING TO DIG OUT FROM THE HOLE AND YOU CAN SEE THAT AND I KNOW THAT THAT DME IS PROPOSING DOING THE IRP. AND YOU KNOW THAT'S GOING TO END UP IMPACTING THE RATE STRUCTURES AND WHATNOT. AND I WONDERED WHERE WE ARE. YOU SAID WE'RE STILL DOING REFINEMENT. IF YOU OR TONY COULD COULD TALK ABOUT WHERE WE ARE ON WHETHER WE'RE GOING TO IMPLEMENT SOMETHING LIKE, YOU KNOW, WATER THAT WE'LL SEE IN A SECOND HAS 6 OR 7 DIFFERENT RATE TIERS, IS THAT GOING TO BE INCORPORATED? AND WHAT YEAR DO WE ANTICIPATE THAT BEING INCORPORATED? OBVIOUSLY PROBABLY NOT NEXT YEAR OR THIS COMING BUDGET PROPOSAL. BUT IF YOU COULD PROVIDE A LITTLE CLARITY, TONY OR CASSEY, THAT

WOULD BE GREAT. >> SURE. I'LL I'LL LET TONY ANSWER THAT QUESTION. SO.

>> TONY, THE GENERAL MANAGER. SO I THINK I THINK WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO IS THE COST OF SERVICE STUDY. YOU KNOW, WE'RE ANTICIPATING TO COMPLETE THAT AT THE END OF THE YEAR AND TRY TO GET THAT SCHEDULED TO COME BACK TO THE COUNCIL AND HAVE THAT DISCUSSION ABOUT JUST OVERALL RATE DESIGN, WHAT WE MAY NEED TO RESTRUCTURE. CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOTTEN YOUR FEEDBACK, YOU KNOW, SO WE'RE LOOKING AT AT THE VARIOUS RATE DESIGNS THAT ARE OUT THERE AND WHAT MAY WHAT MAY BE BEST FOR DME. AS FAR AS A RECOMMENDATION FOR BOTH A CONSULTANT AND CERTAINLY FROM STAFF AND, AND WE CAN HAVE A ROBUST CONVERSATION WITH THE COUNCIL IF THERE'S NEEDS TO BE A CHANGE ON HOW WE'VE HISTORICALLY DESIGNED THOSE RATES FOR DME. AS FAR AS THE INTEGRATED RESOURCE PLAN, WE DO ANTICIPATE IT'S GOING TO BE 18 TO 2024 MONTH PROCESS. ANY RATE, DESIGN CHANGES LIKELY WOULD GO INTO EFFECT A YEAR FROM NOW AS WELL. WE WOULD ANTICIPATE WE WOULD ROLL THAT INTO THE NEXT BUDGET CYCLE. THE IRP, YOU KNOW, DEPENDING ON WHERE ULTIMATELY THE COUNCIL GIVES A RECOMMENDATION ON, THEN WE WILL THEN EITHER CONTINUE AS AS WE'VE BEEN DOING OR WE WILL ROLL IN ADDITIONAL PROCUREMENT OF WHATEVER VARIOUS RESOURCES AND

RESOURCE MIX. THE COUNCIL WOULD, WOULD ENTERTAIN. >> BUT JUST TO FOLLOW UP BRIEFLY ON THAT, THE NONE OF THE PROJECTIONS SEEN IN THIS PROFORMA, THAT'S ALL THE CURRENT RATE STRUCTURE. IT'S NONE OF THE ANTICIPATED POTENTIAL CHANGES. IT IS JUST WHAT WE'RE DOING NOW

PROPOSED FORWARD. CORRECT? >> CORRECT. AND SO ANY OF THESE RATE INCREASES THAT THAT WE HAVE, WHILE TRADITIONALLY WE JUST APPLY THEM ACROSS ALL THE RATE CLASSES, POTENTIALLY WE COULD APPLY THEM DIFFERENTLY DEPENDING ON ULTIMATELY WHAT THAT RATE DESIGN LOOKS LIKE.

>> OKAY. THAT'S WHAT I WANTED. THANK YOU TONY I APPRECIATE IT. >> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? CASSEY I JUST WANT TO KNOW. IS THIS WHERE WE TALK ABOUT THE MIX OF POWER PURCHASE AGREEMENTS AND THE 100%

[01:15:09]

WE HAD SAID. WE WERE GOING TO BRING IT BACK FOR DISCUSSION. >> OKAY. SO. FEEDBACK THEN I JUST. I WOULD RATHER HAVE SOME SORT OF ASTERISK OR SOMETHING BY THERE. RIGHT. OR SOMETHING BY THOSE OUT YEARS THAT SAY, HEY, THIS COULD BE AFFECTED OR WE, I JUST JUST TO PUT IT OUT THERE.

IF THE LAYPERSON IS LOOKING AT THE BACKUP OR TRACKING ALONG, IT JUST SAYS, HEY, MY, MY UTILITY RATES ARE GOING TO GO UP. YOU KNOW, 6.5% NEXT YEAR. AND I'M GOING TO FIRE OFF AN EMAIL. I'D RATHER IT SAY, HEY, COME TALK TO US AND BE HEARD ON OPTIONS. THIS ISN'T THIS DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THE CASE. WE CAN SAVE MONEY. OBVIOUSLY I'M SLANTED, BUT JUST THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME SORT OF.

SOME INDICATION LOOKING AT THIS CHART THAT THERE'S FUTURE DISCUSSIONS ABOUT HOW WE CAN

AFFECT THAT NUMBER AND AVOID THAT. >> SURE. THAT I MEAN, WE LOOK AT THIS, WE LOOK AT THIS ANNUALLY. WE LOOK AT THIS ALL YEAR LONG. WE DID HAVE A PROJECTED RATE INCREASE THIS YEAR THAT WE FOREGO. WE WENT WE LOOKED AT IT. WE FELT LIKE WE DIDN'T NEED TO HAVE A RATE INCREASE THIS YEAR BASED ON SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IN THE UTILITY. AND SO, YES, I WILL MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE A NOTE ABOUT THAT. THIS IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE. OUR GOAL IS ALWAYS TO BRING GIVE YOU WORST CASE SCENARIO. AND THEN HOPEFULLY THINGS END UP IN A BETTER PLACE AND WE'RE ABLE TO REDUCE THAT OVERALL RATE IMPACT BECAUSE WE WANT TO BE SENSITIVE TO OUR CUSTOMERS AND WE WANT TO STAY COMPETITIVE.

>> SO YES, NO, I AGREE, BUT ESPECIALLY IN THIS INSTANCE BECAUSE WE HAVE SOMETHING ONGOING THAT COULD AFFECT THIS, LIKE IMMEDIATELY TRANSPIRING RIGHT NOW, I THINK THAT'S DIFFERENT THAN IN IN SOME FUTURE DATE WE MAY HAVE DISCUSSIONS OR THINGS MAY EBB AND FLOW. WE CERTAINLY HAVE SOMETHING GOING ON RIGHT NOW THAT COULD AFFECT THOSE NUMBERS SIGNIFICANTLY.

>> UNDERSTOOD. >> OKAY. THANK YOU. >> MOVING ON TO SOLID WASTE AGAIN. NO PROPOSED RATE INCREASES FOR THIS FUND FOR THE NEXT FISCAL YEAR. WE DO HAVE SOME MODERATE RATE INCREASES. SO 2.5% AND PROPOSED IN 27 AND 28 REALLY TO JUST MAINTAIN THAT FUND BALANCE IN THAT FUND. BUT WE ARE PROPOSING NOT RATE INCREASES. BUT JUST SOME CLARIFICATION AND DEFINE CHANGING SOME DEFINITIONS IN THE RATE SCHEDULE ITSELF. SO WE WILL BRING THAT FORWARD FOR ADOPTION IN SEPTEMBER. BUT WANTED TO MAKE YOU AWARE OF THAT. SO NO CHANGES TO THE ACTUAL COST. BUT SOME CLARIFICATION IN THE IN THE SCHEDULE ITSELF.

>> ANY QUESTIONS. ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. GO AHEAD. >> SORRY. HAPPY TO STAND FOR ANY QUESTIONS FOR SOLID WASTE. AND BRENDA IS HERE. IF YOU HAVE SPECIFICS.

>> QUESTIONS ON SOLID WASTE. DO WE CAPTURE IN THIS WHAT LEVEL OF PUT OR PAY AGREEMENTS WE HAVE

BECAUSE THAT AFFECTS THINGS. MY UNDERSTANDING. >> THE WHOLESALE AGREEMENTS. IS

THAT WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO? >> YES. >> YEAH. THE WHOLESALE AGREEMENTS ARE NOTED IN THAT REVENUE LINE. SO WE'RE PROPOSING $5.5 MILLION OF REVENUE FROM

THOSE AGREEMENTS FOR NEXT FISCAL YEAR. >> OKAY. OKAY. YEAH. I JUST WONDER IF THERE'S A WAY, AGAIN TO CALL THAT OUT, JUST BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY YOU WOULD HAVE THAT CONVERSATION IF THERE'S AGREEMENTS THAT PEOPLE WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, IT WOULD COME FORWARD THEN, BUT JUST ON THE OUT YEARS. BUT I THINK IT SPEAKS TO ITSELF. IF ALL THESE NUMBERS HOLD, THAT'S THE NUMBERS, RIGHT? I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYTHING TO CHANGE. I JUST I'LL THINK

THROUGH THAT A LITTLE MORE. OKAY. THANK YOU. >> SO MOVING ON TO WATER, WE ARE PROPOSING A 3% RATE INCREASE FOR WATER RATES. BASED ON THE PROFORMA YOU CAN SEE THAT WE'RE WE'RE PROPOSING TO DIP INTO OUR FUND BALANCE SLIGHTLY FOR NEXT YEAR. AND SO REALLY NEEDING TO MAINTAIN THAT DEBT SERVICE COVERAGE RATIO FOR OUR EXISTING AND FUTURE DEBT NEEDS WHILE MAINTAINING OUR FUND BALANCE TARGETS. AND SO 3% IS PROPOSED FOR RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL

[01:20:02]

SO A SUBSTANTIAL CHANGE. BUT THIS IS REALLY A RESULT OF OUR COST OF SERVICE FOR SERVING THAT THAT TREATED WATER TO UPPER TRINITY. AND THEN INCREASING OUR METER FEES. SO THESE ARE NEW METERS AND THEN METER RELOCATIONS. WE HAVE TO GO OUT AND MOVE A METER AND FIRE HYDRANT INSTALLATIONS. THESE ARE ALL JUST A 3% INCREASE ACROSS THE BOARD. SO HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS REGARDING WATER PERFORMANCE OR FEE PROPOSALS OKAY.

>> QUESTIONS ON WATER REPRESENTATIVE DISTRICT TWO. >> THANK YOU.

>> OH JUST POPPED UP. >> THANK YOU. SO ONE OF THE QUESTIONS TO STAFF WAS WAS DEFINING IRRIGATION METERS VERSUS REGULAR METERS. AND THE BUT IT PROMPTS A QUESTION FOR ME AND THAT IS THERE'S THERE ANY DIFFERENCE IN THE WATER THAT'S FED TO THOSE DIFFERENT METERS.

AND IF, IF IT'S ALL JUST POTABLE TREATED WATER OR, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T HAVE RAW WATER METERS FOR OUR LARGE AGRICULTURAL PURPOSES, I THINK THAT'S ACCURATE. BUT THAT'S REALLY MORE OF A QUESTION. AND IF IT'S ALL OUR OWN POTABLE WATER AND MOST OF OUR COSTS ARE THE COST OF TREATING AND CREATING IT, TURNING RAW INTO POTABLE, WHY DO OUR IRRIGATION RATES, WHY ARE

THEY LESS THAN OUR POTABLE WATER RATES? >> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION THAT

I'M GOING TO DEFER TO, STEPHEN. >> AND I'LL ADD SOME CONTEXT TO. STEPHEN WALKS UP. AND THAT IS SO MUCH OF WHAT STEPHEN AND DEVELOPMENT SERVICES HAVE BEEN PROPOSING HAS BEEN TARGETED AT CONSERVATION, TURF BUYBACKS AND ALL KINDS OF THINGS WHERE WE'RE TRYING TO BE GREAT STEWARDS OF

WATER. AND WE MADE IT CHEAPER TO IRRIGATE. >> STEPHEN GAY, GENERAL MANAGER, WATER UTILITIES AND STREET OPERATIONS THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION. I CAN TELL YOU THAT FROM THE LAST COST OF SERVICE STUDY, THOSE WERE THE RATES THAT WERE IDENTIFIED, AND WE'RE REEVALUATING THAT DURING THE NEXT COST OF SERVICE STUDY, WHICH IS ONGOING RIGHT NOW. SO IT'S A GREAT POINT AND IT'S NOT CONSISTENT WITH OUR DIRECTION MOVING FORWARD. SO THERE'S THE

CONSERVATION IS FOUNDATIONAL TO WHAT WE'RE MOVING. >> BUT IT MAYBE THAT EARLIER

QUESTION THERE'S IT'S THE SAME WATER. >> SAME WATER. YES SIR.

>> WE DON'T HAVE. >> WE DO HAVE SOME. >> THE PURPLE PIPES THE REUSED.

>> WATER REUSE. WE DO HAVE SOME REUSE CUSTOMERS LIKE OAKMONT AND THE SPENCER POWER PLANT. BUT THOSE ARE LARGE VOLUMES OF WATER. AND IT'S NOT IT'S NOT TRADITIONAL. AND WHEN WE DID, WHEN WE DID OUR, OUR OUR COMPREHENSIVE WATER SUPPLY PLAN, WE LOOKED AT THAT, WE LOOKED AT EXTENDING THE REUSE SYSTEM AS A PART OF IT. AND SO THAT'S PART THAT'S THAT'S INCLUDED IN OUR

[01:25:04]

CAPITAL PLANS. >> SO IN YOUR COST OF SERVICE STUDY, AGAIN, IT'S SORT OF SIMILAR TO TONY'S QUESTION. WE'RE NOT GOING TO SEE IT BECAUSE WE'RE JUST CARRYING FORWARD MODELS FROM THE PAST INTO THIS BUDGET CYCLE. BUT FOR BOTH OF YOU, THERE'S GOING TO BE THOSE POTENTIAL ADJUSTMENTS GOING INTO NEXT YEAR'S BUDGET. IS THAT WHAT I'M HEARING? THAT IS CORRECT OKAY. YES. WELL, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, TO THE TO THE EXTENT THAT I'M WE CAN I WOULD LOVE TO TRUE THOSE UP EARLIER RATHER THAN LATER BECAUSE TO TODAY WATER IS ALWAYS CHEAPER

THAN TOMORROW. WATER. AGREED. >> THANK YOU SIR. >> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ON WATER

OKAY. >> THANK YOU. >> ALL RIGHT. MOVING ON TO WASTEWATER AGAIN. YOU'VE SEEN THIS PROFORMA BEFORE BUT WANTED TO NOTE WE ARE PROPOSING AN 11% RATE INCREASE FOR WASTEWATER. AGAIN, IT GOES BACK TO OUR FUND BALANCE TARGETS AND DEBT SERVICE COVERAGE RATIO. AND WE HAVE QUITE A BIT OF CAPITAL NEEDS IN THE WASTEWATER FUND. AND SO INCREASING THOSE RATES TO BE ABLE TO MEET OUR CAPITAL CAPITAL NEEDS IN THIS FUND. AGAIN, THE PROPOSED RATE CHANGES, I'M NOT GOING TO GO THROUGH EACH CATEGORY, BUT THEY ARE 11% ACROSS THE BOARD FOR EACH DIFFERENT TIER. SO FACILITY VOLUME, ALL OF THOSE ARE INCREASING BEING PROPOSED TO INCREASE BY 11% AS WELL AS OUR COMMERCIAL. THE CHEMICAL TOILET DISPOSAL, RESTAURANT AND FOOD ARE AND THEN OUR SALE OF TREATED EFFLUENT IS INCREASING BASED ON THE 11%. OUR WHOLESALE AGREEMENTS ARE ARE PER INDIVIDUAL AGREEMENT. AND THEN OUR ACTUAL DYNO DIRT PRODUCTS ARE INCREASING BASED ON THE 11%. WE DIDN'T INCLUDE EVERY SINGLE ITEM, BUT THOSE WILL BE IN THE SCHEDULE OF FEES FOR ADOPTION IN SEPTEMBER. AND THEN JUST IN SUMMARY, I DID WANT TO NOTE WE ARE WORKING THROUGH A UTILITY'S FINANCIAL STRATEGIES POLICY FOR COUNCIL CONSIDERATION. WE'RE HOPING TO BRING THAT EITHER AT THE END OF THIS FISCAL YEAR OR THE BEGINNING OF NEXT FISCAL YEAR, KIND OF OUTLINING SOME OF THOSE GOALS THAT WE TALKED ABOUT WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT OUR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM AND REVENUE FUNDED TARGETS. SO THAT WILL COME BACK TO YOU LATER ON THIS YEAR OR THE BEGINNING OF NEXT YEAR. SO JUST IN SUMMARY, OUR UTILITY BILL RATE CHANGE, YOU CAN SEE OUR AVERAGE RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMER BILL VERSUS A COMMERCIAL AVERAGE BILL. SO THE COMMERCIAL IS CONTEMPLATING A SMALL GENERAL ELECTRIC CUSTOMER. AGAIN, NO CHANGES FOR SOLID WASTE AND ELECTRIC BUT WATER WASTEWATER YOU CAN SEE THE WATER INCREASING 3%. WASTEWATER PROPOSAL IS INCREASING BY 11%. SO OVERALL ABOUT $6.12 ON THE RESIDENTIAL BILL VERSUS $9.43 ON A SMALL GENERAL COMMERCIAL CUSTOMER BILL. AND JUST A REMINDER, YOU'VE SEEN THIS SLIDE A COUPLE OF TIMES. BUT WE THINK IT'S IMPORTANT WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THOSE, ESPECIALLY THOSE LARGE RATE INCREASES LIKE WE'RE SEEING IN WASTEWATER. WHEN WE DON'T RAISE RATES OR WE DO NOT RAISE RATES OVER A PERIOD OF TIME, IT IS IT DOES HAVE A COMPOUNDING EFFECT ON THOSE ON THOSE FUNDS. AND SO WE HAVE WE HAVE SEEN THE NEED FOR RATE INCREASES OVER THE LAST SEVERAL FISCAL YEARS. AND WE CONTINUE TO SEE THOSE AS THE CITY GROWS. AND WE SEE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT NEEDS TO BE REPLACED IN THESE FUNDS. SO JUST WANTED TO REMIND YOU OF THE HISTORY OF SOME OF OUR WATER AND OR OUR UTILITY RATES. WE STILL TRY TO REMAIN COMPETITIVE.

HOWEVER, WE ARE SEEING INCREASED COSTS FOR ALL OF OUR UTILITIES. AND THEN JUST A FINAL FOLLOW UP, WE PROVIDED AN ISR TO RESPOND TO ALL THE QUESTIONS WE RECEIVED FROM THE BUDGET WORKSHOP. SO YOU SHOULD HAVE SEEN THAT ON FRIDAY, AUGUST 15TH. HAPPY TO RESPOND TO ANY QUESTIONS. SO MOVING FORWARD, WE WILL BE BACK ON SEPTEMBER 9TH AT YOUR NEXT MEETING TO TALK ABOUT THE BUDGET AND THE TAX RATE, AND THEN ALSO HAVE THE PUBLIC HEARING ON THE TAX RATE. AND THEN WE ARE SCHEDULED FOR ADOPTION OF THE BUDGET AND TAX RATE ON SEPTEMBER 16TH. TONIGHT, YOU WILL SEE THE MAX TAX RATE PROPOSAL. SO IT'S ABOUT $0.01 OVER WHAT WE ARE PROPOSING TO SET THE TAX RATE AT. IT'S A LITTLE BIT HIGHER TO ALLOW FOR ANY CALCULATION ERRORS THAT OCCUR, BUT WE WILL HAVE THAT DURING THE DISCUSSION TONIGHT. BUT HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU HAVE.

[01:30:04]

>> REPRESENTATIVE FROM DISTRICT FOUR. >> 4 OR 3.

>> YEAH I SAID. >> YEAH OKAY. THANK YOU. CASSEY. SO CAN YOU GO BACK TO THE SLIDE THAT HAD SORT OF THE SUMMARY OF THE YES, THE. OH YES. YES. SO YOU TALKED ABOUT SORT OF COMPOUNDING EFFECTS THAT CAN HAPPEN WHEN THESE AREN'T RAISED OVER TIME. ARE YOU ABLE TO GIVE SOME EXAMPLES OF EITHER WHAT HAS HAPPENED? YOU KNOW, WHEN WE HAVEN'T ADEQUATELY KEPT UP OR THINGS THAT COULD HAPPEN AND MAYBE STEVEN CAN ANSWER, MAYBE YOU.

>> I THINK JUST IN GENERAL, WE DON'T WANT TO SEE DEFERRED MAINTENANCE, ESPECIALLY IN OUR UTILITIES. AND SO WHEN WE WHEN WE LOOK AT OUR RATE INCREASES, WE REALLY NEED TO BE ABLE TO NOT ONLY THE CITY OBVIOUSLY IS GROWING, BUT WE ALSO HAVE OLDER INFRASTRUCTURE, ESPECIALLY, YOU KNOW, NEAR THE CENTER OF TOWN. AND SO THOSE THOSE PROJECTS ARE SUBSTANTIAL. THEY COME WITH REALLY HIGH PRICE TAGS. AND A, A WASTEWATER FUND IS ONE OF OUR SMALLER FUNDS AND NOT ABLE TO SUSTAIN THAT WITHOUT RATE INCREASES. IT'S ALSO A BALANCE OF MAKING SURE THAT WE'RE WE'RE DELIVERING THOSE PROJECTS. SO WE DON'T WANT TO RAISE RATES AND THEN NOT DELIVER THE PROJECTS.

SO THAT'S SOME OF WHY WHY YOU'RE SEEING THE EBB AND FLOW. GET IT. >> THAT'S ALL I HAD FOR THE

MOMENT. >> OKAY. REPRESENTATIVE FROM DISTRICT TWO.

>> THANK YOU. AS THE BUDGET CYCLE HAS COME IN, I MEAN, THIS ISN'T THE FIRST TIME YOU'VE PRESENTED THIS TABLE AT. I THINK THIS TABLE IS LIKE NINE MONTHS OLD AT THIS POINT. BUT AS I'VE TALKED WITH CONSTITUENTS, ONE OF THE AND WHILE I LOVE THE TABLE, ONE OF THE FEEDBACK I'M GIVING TO YOU FROM DISCUSSIONS WITH CONSTITUENTS IS THAT THEY'RE THEY'RE SEEING, YOU KNOW, 11 VERSUS THREE VERSUS HALF. AND TREATING THOSE AS THE RAW COMPARISON VALUES WHEN IT ISN'T REALLY WHAT THEIR HOUSEHOLD WILL EXPERIENCE, WHICH IS WHY COUNCIL ALWAYS ASKS YOU WHAT IS THE WHAT'S THE MONTHLY CHANGE. AND YOU PUT THAT ON THE $6 CHANGE IN THE $9 CHANGE. AND SO IF THERE IS A WAY TO PRESENT THE TABLE ON 41 AS SORT OF A, I KNOW THAT'S ALL AVERAGE RATE CHANGES. AND THE PREVIOUS 140 WAS WAS SORT OF YOUR, YOU KNOW, YOUR, YOUR AVERAGE UTILITY, YOUR AVERAGE HOUSE, YOUR AVERAGE THIS. AND SO IT'S A LITTLE BIT OBSCURE BECAUSE THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS THE AVERAGE HOUSE IN ALL OF DENTON. BUT IF WE COULD SOMEHOW RELATE IT TO THOSE, THOSE CHANGES TO THOSE NUMBERS SO THAT YOU CAN SAY, OKAY, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT GETTING BLITZKRIEG WITH A CHANGE IN WATER, EVEN THOUGH THAT LOOKS LIKE A HUGE CHANGE. IT'S NOT IT'S NOT THE IT WAS, YOU KNOW, IT'S 3 OR $4, WHATEVER IT WAS, I FORGET THE NUMBER NOW. AND SO THERE. THANK YOU. YOU KNOW, WATER ITSELF IS A BUCK AND A HALF. SO IF THERE WAS A WAY TO SORT OF MAKE THE MORE APPLES TO APPLES COMPARISON FROM OF THE OTHER TABLES SO THAT WE UNDERSTOOD THAT AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU, IF THAT'S A PERCENTAGE OF AMI OR SOMETHING ELSE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT. I'LL LEAVE THAT TO YOU TO COME UP WITH A CREATIVE INTERPRETATION OF HOW YOU DO IT. BUT DEFINITELY OUR CITIZENS ARE GETTING CONFUSED BY THOSE RELATIVE PERCENTAGES. IS MY EXPERIENCE WHEN I'M TRYING TO

TALK THEM THROUGH THE BUDGET. >> RIGHT. AND, AND IT GOES BACK TO AGAIN TO HOW WE APPLY THOSE COST OF SERVICE STUDIES AND RECOMMENDATIONS. SO FOR THIS YEAR, FOR EXAMPLE, WATER AND WASTEWATER BOTH WERE APPLYING IT ACROSS THE BOARD. SO A 11% INCREASES IN WASTEWATER APPLIED TO YOUR FACILITY CHARGE AS WELL AS YOUR VOLUME CHARGE. SAME FOR WATER. IT'S 3% FOR FACILITY AND VOLUME. THERE ARE SOME YEARS THAT BASED ON COST OF SERVICE. WE RECOGNIZE THERE'S A NEED TO INCREASE MAYBE ONE HIGHER. AND THAT'S WHERE YOU GET A LOT MORE CONFUSION ABOUT WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH THE RATES. BUT THIS YEAR IT IS ACROSS THE BOARD, 3% AND 11% IN WATER AND WASTEWATER.

I DID WANT TO MENTION THOUGH, TOO, PART OF WHAT WE'RE REVIEWING IS THAT UTILITY FINANCIAL STRATEGIES IS TO HELP ALLEVIATE SOME OF THIS RATE SHOCK THAT WE'RE SEEING NOW, BECAUSE IF WE HAD DONE SMALL INCREMENTAL RATE INCREASES OVER TIME, WE WOULDN'T SEE THE 11% IN WASTEWATER THAT WE NEED NOW. SO WE'D LIKE TO HAVE THAT CONVERSATION WITH COUNCIL ABOUT HOW DO WE LOOK MAYBE LONGER TERM INSTEAD OF JUST ONE YEAR AT A TIME FOR FUTURE RATE INCREASES?

>> I APPRECIATE THAT. >> THANK YOU. >> YEAH. GO RIGHT AHEAD.

>> I MEAN, CASSEY RIGHT. I'LL JUST LOOK AT YOU. JUST LOOK AT SOLID WASTE. THAT'S 29%, 29%

[01:35:01]

TO SWALLOW. BUT WE DIDN'T. >> OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? MY ONLY QUESTION. AND IT TIES TO THE NEXT ITEM. AND I MEANT TO SUBMIT IT AND SOMEHOW IT FELL OFF. AND SO WHOEVER NEEDS TO BE HERE FOR THAT WHEN WE GET THERE, BECAUSE I THINK IT TIES INTO THE WASTEWATER, I DO BELIEVE I WANT SOME CLARIFICATION ON THE DRAINAGE FEES AND HOW THAT TIES TO WASTEWATER. AND IF WE'RE MISCALCULATING WASTEWATER, HOW DOES THAT THEN FACTOR INTO OUR IMPACT FEES THAT ARE GOING FORWARD? AGAIN, I DON'T MIND PAYING FOR WHAT WE NEED TO PAY FOR, BUT IF WE'VE MADE A MISTAKE OVER A PROLONGED PERIOD OF TIME, I DON'T EXPECT TO ROLL THAT UP. OR WE NEED TO BE TRANSPARENT IN SAYING, HEY, THIS WOULD NOT BE THAT BAD, BUT FOR POOR DECISIONS OR BAD ACTIONS OR MISMANAGEMENT OR MISCALCULATIONS THAT LED TO THAT AND NOT SAY THAT IT'S ALL 100%, YOU KNOW, THE FACILITIES WE NEED TO ADD UNDERSTAND THAT TO BE THE CASE. I JUST WANT TO BE TRANSPARENT IN THAT. SO WHOEVER NEEDS TO BE HERE TO SPEAK TO THAT, AND IT'S ON PAGE 39 OF MADISON'S REPORT. BUT I NEED SOME CLARIFICATION AS TO HOW THAT AFFECTS OUR CALCULATIONS ON WASTEWATER THAT THIS IS. AND IF WE'RE GOING TO PULL THAT OUT FROM THAT REPORTING STANDPOINT, BECAUSE THAT WAS CALLED OUT AS WELL. SO I JUST I HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS AS IT RELATES TO WASTEWATER, AS IT RELATES TO IMPACT FEES AS IT RELATES TO THIS AUDIT. SO WHOEVER NEEDS TO BE HERE TO, TO MAKE SURE THEY CAN MAKE THAT EASY FOR ME TO EXPLAIN, I'D GREATLY APPRECIATE IT.

>> OKAY. >> REPRESENTATIVE IN DISTRICT ONE.

>> YOU KNOW, AS I LOOK AT THAT, GO BACK ONE MORE. RIGHT THERE. JUST GENERALLY LOOKING AT THAT, I AM LOOKING AT THOSE YEARS AND THOSE WERE SOME VERY TRYING YEARS FOR US. AND I REMEMBER SITTING IN ON SOME OF THOSE DISCUSSIONS AND WE WERE WE WERE VERY MINDFUL OF ALL OF US STRUGGLING TO PAY BILLS AND GETTING BACK ON OUR FEET AND ALL OF THAT. AND SO THAT'S WHERE YOU CAN SEE WHERE WE MADE DECISIONS TO JUST HOLD OFF. NOW THAT COULD CREATE SOME, SOME CONSTERNATION DOWN THE ROAD, BECAUSE WE'VE NOW FOUND OUT THAT THAT LEVEL OF COMPASSION, LIKE YOU SAID, WE PROBABLY COULD HAVE INCREMENTALLY DONE IT. WE SAW THAT IN OUR UTILITIES AS WELL.

SO, YOU KNOW, JUST PUTTING ALL THAT TOGETHER AND JUST LOOKING AT IT AS A WHOLE, IT JUST BRINGS UP TO THE FACT THAT NOW WE GOT TO GET CAUGHT UP, AND I'M REALLY HOPING THAT OUR COMMUNITY CAN REALLY UNDERSTAND THAT PART. AND WE'RE STILL SOME OF US, WE'RE I DON'T EVEN WANT TO GET STARTED.

SO BUT THAT'S THAT'S WHAT I'M JUST OBSERVING RIGHT THERE. THANK YOU FOR GIVING ME THAT

TIME. >> OKAY. ANYTHING ELSE? ANY OTHER QUESTIONS. GREAT. THAT TAKES US TO ITEM D I'D 251059 RECEIVE REPORT WHOLE DISCUSSION. GIVE STAFF DIRECTION REGARDING

[C. Receive a report, hold a discussion, and give staff direction regarding Audit Project 045 - Public Works Maintenance: Streets & Drainage. [Estimated Presentation/Discussion Time: 30 minutes]]

STREETS AND DRAINAGE. >> GOOD AFTERNOON MAYOR COUNCIL. OBVIOUSLY NOT MADISON. I'M CASSEY OGDEN, DEPUTY CITY MANAGER. MADISON HAS ALLOWED ME TO KICK OFF THE DISCUSSION BECAUSE THIS AUDIT, AS YOU'RE ABOUT TO SEE, IS NOT PRETTY. BUT I WANTED TO SET THE STAGE FOR YOU. I ASKED SPECIFICALLY FOR THIS AUDIT TO BE INCLUDED IN MADISON'S WORK PLAN, BECAUSE BEING OVER THIS AREA, I UNDERSTOOD WE HAD SOME CHALLENGES. AND IT WHAT WHAT

[01:40:05]

GOING TO HAND IT OVER TO MADISON. >> THANKS, CASSEY MADISON, DENTON CITY AUDITOR I'M GOING TO PRESENT OUR FINDINGS FROM AUDIT OF THE CITY'S PUBLIC WORKS MAINTENANCE PROCESSES FOR STREETS AND DRAINAGE INFRASTRUCTURE. SO JUST TO BEGIN, GENERALLY, PUBLIC WORKS ENCOMPASS A VARIETY OF INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECTS BUILT FOR COMMUNITY USE. GOVERNMENTS ARE TYPICALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR MAINTAINING THESE ASSETS TO ENSURE THE COMMUNITY CONTINUES TO BENEFIT FROM THE INFRASTRUCTURE AS LONG AS POSSIBLE. BECAUSE PUBLIC WORKS OR COMMUNITY ASSETS TAXES, OR USER FEES ARE GENERALLY LEVIED FROM THE COMMUNITY TO BUILD AND MAINTAIN THIS INFRASTRUCTURE, THE MAINTENANCE PROCESS GENERALLY INCLUDES FOUR STEPS. SO FIRST, IDENTIFY NEEDED MAINTENANCE ACTIVITIES, WHICH USUALLY REQUIRES A COMPLETE INVENTORY OF ASSETS WITH REGULAR STANDARDIZED CONDITION ASSESSMENTS TO PRIORITIZE NEEDED MAINTENANCE BASED ON SERVICE LEVEL GOALS, WHICH USUALLY REQUIRES FORMALLY ADOPTING THOSE GOALS AND DETERMINING THE MOST COST EFFECTIVE METHOD OF MEETING THEM THROUGH LONG RANGE PLANNING. THREE PLAN MAINTENANCE PROJECTS BASED ON AVAILABLE RESOURCES, WHICH REQUIRES AN UNDERSTANDING OF TIME, LABOR, EQUIPMENT, AND MATERIAL COSTS BY PROJECT TYPE AND SIZE COMPARED TO AVAILABLE RESOURCES SUCH AS STAFF, EQUIPMENT AND MONEY TO OPTIMIZE USAGE IN THE SHORT TERM, AND FOUR PERFORM MAINTENANCE ACTIVITIES WHICH REQUIRES DOCUMENTATION OF WHO, WHAT, WHEN, HOW AND WHERE, HOW AND WHY THE WORK WAS PERFORMED, TYPICALLY THROUGH A WORK ORDER SYSTEM AND APPROPRIATE OVERSIGHT TO ENSURE QUALITY AND TIMELINESS STANDARDS WERE MET. THIS AUDIT FOCUSED ON THE MAINTENANCE OF TWO TYPES OF PUBLIC WORKS IN THE CITY STREETS AND DRAINAGE, AND EVALUATED ASSET CONDITION MONITORING, PRIORITIZING PLANNING AND FUNDING OF MAINTENANCE PROJECTS AND ENSURING MAINTENANCE PROJECT QUALITY. OUR ASSESSMENT OF THE EFFECTIVENESS OF THESE PROCESSES IS BASED ON DOCUMENTATION FROM FISCAL YEAR 2023 AND 2024, AS WELL AS OBSERVATIONS THAT OCCURRED DURING THE SECOND QUARTER OF FISCAL YEAR 2025. SO I'LL BEGIN BY DISCUSSING THE CITY'S STREET MAINTENANCE, IDENTIFICATION, AND PRIORITIZATION PROCESSES. CITY OF DENTON STREET DIVISION IS RESPONSIBLE FOR MAINTAINING ABOUT 1500 LANE MILES OF ROADWAY, WHICH ARE GENERALLY AVAILABLE FOR COMMUNITY USE. A STREET CONSIST OF THREE LAYERS, WHICH MUST BE BUILT AND MAINTAINED CORRECTLY TO ENSURE IT CONTINUES TO BE USEFUL FOR AS LONG AS POSSIBLE. THIS TIME IS GENERALLY REFERRED TO AS A USEFUL LIFE. TO BE COST EFFECTIVE. BEST PRACTICES RECOMMEND THAT CERTAIN MAINTENANCE TECHNIQUES ONLY BE APPLIED TO A ROADWAY WHEN IT'S AT A CERTAIN CONDITION PHASE. OTHERWISE, THE BENEFITS OF THE MAINTENANCE MAY NOT BE COMPLETELY REALIZED. THERE ARE GENERALLY FOUR CONDITION PHASES OVER A STREET'S USEFUL LIFE, DURING WHICH DIFFERENT MAINTENANCE TECHNIQUES ARE MOST COST EFFECTIVE, WHICH INCLUDE NEW PREVENTATIVE, CORRECTIVE, AND REHABILITATIVE STREETS. DIVISION HAS ESTABLISHED A PROCESS TO REGULARLY ASSESS AND PREDICT ASSET CONDITION THROUGH A PAVEMENT MANAGEMENT SYSTEM THAT'S ALSO USED TO IDENTIFY MAINTENANCE NEEDS. HOWEVER, SOME CRITICAL DATA ON STREET ASSETS CONTINUES TO BE MISSING OR INCORRECT. SPECIFICALLY, ABOUT 25% OF INSTALL DATES OR REPLACEMENT DATES ARE MISSING IN THE SYSTEM, MANY OF WHICH ARE LIKELY FOR NEWER ROADS BASED ON THE OCI SCORE, AND ALMOST 8% OF STREET SEGMENTS ARE MISSING A PAVEMENT TYPE, WHICH IS A PRETTY CRITICAL PIECE OF INFORMATION. WHILE SERVICE LEVEL GOALS HAVE NOT BEEN FORMALLY ADOPTED, PROGRESS HAS BEEN MADE TOWARDS THE INFORMAL GOALS THAT ARE SHOWN AT THE TOP OF THE ON THE TABLE AT THE TOP OF THE SLIDE, AND STREETS REPORTED THAT THESE GOALS ARE BEING USED FOR THE FIRST TIME TO PLAN THE FISCAL YEAR 2026 WORKLOAD. WHILE PREVIOUS WORKLOAD PLANNING WAS NOT CLEARLY TIED TO SERVICE LEVEL GOALS, THE STREETS DIVISION GENERALLY APPEARS TO APPLY COST EFFECTIVE MAINTENANCE TECHNIQUES BASED PRIMARILY ON THE ASSET'S CURRENT CONDITION, AS SUGGESTED BY BEST PRACTICES. HOWEVER, DOCUMENTATION COULD BE IMPROVED FOR MAINTENANCE TECHNIQUES APPLIED TO ROADS OUTSIDE THE APPROPRIATE CONDITION LEVEL. SPECIFICALLY, ABOUT 92% OF TECHNIQUES APPLIED TO ROADS OUTSIDE THE APPROPRIATE PREVENTATIVE MAINTENANCE TECHNIQUES, ABOUT 92% OF PREVENTATIVE MAINTENANCE TECHNIQUES, AND 65% OF CORRECTIVE MAINTENANCE TECHNIQUES APPLIED TO STREETS APPLIED BY THE STREETS DIVISION

[01:45:03]

FURTHER, THE STREETS DIVISION USES THE PAVEMENT MANAGEMENT SYSTEM TO ASSIGN AND DOCUMENT WORK PERFORMED. HOWEVER, WORK ORDER DOCUMENTATION METHODS ARE INCONSISTENT, LIMITING THE USEFULNESS OF THIS DATA. SPECIFICALLY, FORMAL GUIDANCE ON WHAT INFORMATION SHOULD BE INCLUDED IN A WORK ORDER HAS NOT BEEN ESTABLISHED, AND WORK HAS NOT FORMALLY PRIORITIZED EVEN FOR REPAIR WORK, INCLUDING POTHOLES AND PATCHES. FURTHER TIMELINESS GOALS FOR REPAIRS HAVE NOT BEEN FORMALLY ESTABLISHED, AND BASED ON A REVIEW OF A SAMPLE OF 80 STREET REPAIRS, WORK ORDERS, CRITICAL DETAILS SUCH AS MATERIAL COSTS, RELATED INVOICES AND QUALITY ASSURANCE PICTURES WERE NOT CONSISTENTLY AVAILABLE AS DETAILED IN THE TABLE. BASED ON THESE FINDINGS, WE RECOMMENDED THAT THE STREETS DIVISION DEVELOP SYSTEMATIC STREET MAINTENANCE WORK PLANNING TOOLS, INCLUDING IMPROVED WORK ORDER DOCUMENTATION, BASELINE PROJECT COST ESTIMATE TOOLS, AND AN ANNUAL WORK PLAN BASED ON SERVICE LEVEL GOALS, AVAILABLE FUNDING, AND ESTIMATED PROJECT COST INFORMATION. STREETS GENERALLY AGREED WITH THESE RECOMMENDATIONS AND WILL DEVELOP BASELINE PROJECT COST ESTIMATES AND FORMALIZE ONGOING WORK ORDER AND ANNUAL PLANNING PROCESSES TO ENSURE CONSISTENCY. NEXT, I'LL DISCUSS THE FUNDING STRUCTURE FOR STREETS MAINTENANCE. SO OVER THE LAST 20 YEARS, CITY OF DENTON VOTERS APPROVED THE ISSUANCE OF ALMOST $309 MILLION TO BE INVESTED IN STREET AND TRANSPORTATION IMPROVEMENTS AS PART OF FIVE DIFFERENT BOND PROGRAMS. THIS INVESTMENT HAS IMPROVED THE OVERALL CONDITION OF THE CITY'S ROADWAY NETWORK, FROM AN AVERAGE OCI OF 63.5 TO 69.5 FROM 2019 2025 BY SEGMENT.

STILL, OVER THIS TIME, THE PERCENTAGE OF LANE MILES IN THE REHABILITATED CONDITION HAS REMAINED SIMILAR, AS SHOWN IN THE TOP FIGURE ON THE SLIDE. THIS ILLUSTRATES THE NEED FOR ADDITIONAL PREVENTATIVE MAINTENANCE, AS THE CITY IS NOT ABLE TO RECONSTRUCT STREETS FAST ENOUGH TO OUTPACE NATURAL PAVEMENT DEGRADATION WITHOUT THAT MAINTENANCE. SPECIFICALLY, ABOUT 50% OF THE CITY'S EXISTING LANE MILES REMAINED AT THE SAME CONDITION LEVEL FROM 2019 TO 2025, AND 23% DECREASED AT LEAST ONE LEVEL, WHILE 27% INCREASED IN CONDITION. AS RECONSTRUCTIONS BEGIN TO SLOW DOWN, FEWER LANE MILES WILL INCREASE IN CONDITION LEVEL, MAKING IT MORE CRITICAL FOR LANE MILES TO REMAIN IN THEIR CURRENT CONDITION AS LONG AS POSSIBLE THROUGH MAINTENANCE, WHICH CANNOT BE LEGALLY FUNDED THROUGH DEBT. SO WE HAVE TO SOURCE THAT SOME SOMEWHERE ELSE.

[01:50:03]

FURTHER, FRANCHISE FEE REVENUES ARE HIGHLY VARIABLE DUE TO BEING BASED ON UTILITIES GROSS REVENUE EARNED WITHIN THE MUNICIPALITY, MAKING IT MORE DIFFICULT TO PREDICT ACTUAL REVENUE. SO, LIKE CASSEY MENTIONED EARLIER, OUR ELECTRIC REVENUE IS DOWN FROM WHAT WE PREDICTED BECAUSE THE WEATHER IS DIFFERENT. THAT'S KIND OF HOW IT WORKS. IN ADDITION, THE CITY CURRENTLY ISSUES DEBT FOR ITS UTILITIES AS CERTIFICATES OF OBLIGATION INSTEAD OF THE TYPICAL REVENUE BONDS TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF LOWER INTEREST COSTS. THIS ESTIMATED DIFFERENCE IS THEN TRANSFERRED FROM THE CITY'S UTILITIES TO FUND STREET MAINTENANCE ANNUALLY. THIS FUNDING MECHANISM RESULTS IN SEVERAL THINGS ONE, THE CITY'S UTILITIES, AND SO ITS UTILITY CUSTOMERS DO NOT ACTUALLY BENEFIT FROM THIS BOND SALE SAVINGS, BECAUSE THE FULL COST OF THE DEBT IS STILL PAID BY THEM. TWO 7% OF FUNDING FOR STREET MAINTENANCE, ABOUT $1.2 MILLION ANNUALLY, IS DEPENDENT ON THE CITY CONTINUING TO ISSUE DEBT. AND THREE, THE CITY'S DEBT BURDEN IS INCREASED FOR ALL RESIDENTS, EVEN THOUGH THE DEBT ONLY BENEFITS UTILITY CUSTOMERS. THIS PRACTICE RAISES ISSUES OF FAIRNESS AS THE CITY'S UTILITY CUSTOMERS ARE THUS SUBSIDIZING STREET MAINTENANCE FOR NON CITY UTILITY CUSTOMERS, AND SOME REVENUE IS TIED TO DEBT ISSUANCE, WHICH HAS A LONGER PAYBACK PERIOD THAN THE BENEFIT PERIOD OF MOST ASSET MAINTENANCE. WHILE ADDITIONAL REVENUE IS NEEDED TO ENSURE STREETS ARE EFFECTIVELY AND ECONOMICALLY MAINTAINED, THE STREETS DIVISION HAS NOT HISTORICALLY ESTABLISHED AN ANNUAL WORK PLAN OR DEVELOPED BASIC PROJECT COST PLANNING TOOLS, AS WE MENTIONED EARLIER, WHICH LIMITS LONGER TERM PLANNING AND PROJECT PRIORITIZATION. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, REVENUE DEDICATED TO STREET MAINTENANCE UNEXPECTEDLY INCREASED IN FISCAL YEAR 2022 DUE TO FRANCHISE FEE INCREASES, WHILE EXPENDITURES REMAIN THE SAME, RESULTING IN REVENUE EXCEEDING EXPENSES BY ABOUT $8 MILLION ANNUALLY OVER THREE FISCAL YEARS. ALMOST ALL OF THIS REVENUE WAS ULTIMATELY TRANSFERRED TO THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT FUND TO SUPPLEMENT ROADWAY RECONSTRUCTION COSTS.

INSTEAD OF BEING USED FOR PREVENTATIVE OR CORRECTIVE MAINTENANCE. THIS ILLUSTRATES THE CHALLENGES OF FUNDING MAINTENANCE ACTIVITIES WITH SUCH A VARIABLE FUNDING SOURCE, AS WELL AS THE STREETS DIVISION'S CURRENT PLANNING LIMITATIONS. SO, BASED ON THESE FINDINGS, MY OFFICE IS RECOMMENDING THAT THE CITY CONSIDER BUDGETING A SET AMOUNT OF PROPERTY OR SALES TAX REVENUE FOR STREET MAINTENANCE ANNUALLY, INSTEAD OF A PORTION OF FRANCHISE FEES THAT THE CITY EXPLORE. OPTIONS FOR ESTABLISHING UTILITY CUT FEES BASED ON ESTIMATED IMPACTS TO STREETS USEFUL LIFE, AND THAT THE CITY REEVALUATE IMPLEMENTING A ROADWAY MAINTENANCE FEE. STAFF HAS AGREED WITH ALL THREE OF THESE RECOMMENDATIONS. HOWEVER, THE DECISIONS ON THIS WILL ULTIMATELY BE MADE BY THE CITY COUNCIL. SO YOU WANT TO STOP HERE TO TALK ABOUT QUESTIONS FOR

STREETS OR DO YOU WANT TO MOVE INTO DRAINAGE? MAYOR. >> LET'S TAKE UP STREETS. GREAT.

GREAT POINT. QUESTIONS ON STREETS ARE THUS FAR. ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? I'LL ASK A QUESTION FOR COUNCILMEMBER HOLLAND BY PROXY. DID YOU DID YOU EVALUATE ASPHALT VERSUS CEMENT AS FAR AS WHERE DEGRADATION OF THE STREETS AND THOSE SORT OF THINGS.

>> IN GENERAL, ASPHALT REQUIRES MORE MAINTENANCE AS FAR AS DID WE EVALUATE, LIKE THE ACTUAL OCI DEGRADATION OF ASPHALT VERSUS CONCRETE? WE DIDN'T DO THAT AS PART OF THIS AUDIT. SOME OF THAT IS DUE TO IT'S REALLY BECAUSE OF SOME OF THE WORK ORDER ISSUES. IT'S DIFFICULT TO KNOW EXACTLY WHAT MAINTENANCE WAS DONE ON EVERY STREET. AND SO WE HAVE TO ACCOUNT FOR THAT AS PART OF DOING THAT DEGRADATION ANALYSIS. AND WE HAVE SO DOES THAT MAKE SENSE.

>> YES. >> NO, IT MAKES IT A LITTLE COMPLICATED.

>> ARE YOU PLANNING TO DO A FOLLOW UP. AND MAYBE THERE'S SOME. NOT THAT YOU COULD GET A FULL KIND OF SCOPE, BUT MAYBE IF YOU COULD HAVE SOME DATA AROUND THAT OR A SEGMENT TO KIND OF

EXTRAPOLATE OUT. >> YEAH, WE'LL CERTAINLY DO A FOLLOW UP ON THIS. AND WE CAN LOOK AT AND I THINK THAT THEY'RE GOING TO BEGIN DOING VISUAL INSPECTIONS MORE OFTEN. SO THEY'VE BEEN DOING THEM ABOUT EVERY FIVE YEARS OR SO. AND I THINK THEY'RE GOING TO MOVE TO DOING THEM TO EVERY 2 OR 3 YEARS. AND SO THAT WILL MAKE IT EASIER FOR US TO DO THAT ASSESSMENT, BECAUSE WE'LL BE GETTING EYES ON THE GROUND CONDITION REVIEWS INSTEAD OF

[01:55:04]

JUST THE ESTIMATED THE CURVES IN THE SYSTEM. DOES THAT MAKE IT? >> IT DOES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

THE REAL COUNCILMEMBER HOLLAND AND THEN REPRESENTATIVE. >> DISTRICT TWO, AND I, AND I APPRECIATE THAT. I AM CONVINCED WITHOUT ANY SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE THAT CONCRETE LASTS LONGER.

>> OH IT DOES IT DOES LAST LONGER. SO YEAH. >> AND LET'S ADJOURN. LESS

MAINTENANCE. IT'S JUST MORE EXPENSIVE UP FRONT. SO THAT'S. >> FUNNY HOW THAT WORKS.

>> YEAH. >> THE LAST THREE THINGS YOU MENTIONED THE THREE FUNDING

TYPES. WOULD YOU GO OVER THOSE AGAIN PLEASE. >> SO THERE ARE THREE KIND OF THERE'S REALLY TWO FUNDING SOURCES FOR STREETS. THERE'S FRANCHISE FEES WHICH A PORTION OF THE REVENUE THAT THE CITY RECEIVES IN FRANCHISE FEES IS TRANSFERRED INTO THE STREETS IMPROVEMENT ACCOUNT EVERY SO OFTEN. AND THEN THERE'S ALSO THE THEY CALL IT BOND SALE SAVINGS, BUT IT'S ESSENTIALLY AN INTERFUND TRANSFER FROM EACH UTILITY TO THE STREETS REVENUE ACCOUNT BASED ON THE ESTIMATED AMOUNT THAT THE CITY THINKS IT'S SAVING BY ISSUING DEBT FOR ITS UTILITIES AS CERTIFICATES OF OBLIGATION INSTEAD OF REVENUE BONDS. I KNOW THAT SOUNDS REALLY

COMPLICATED. >> YEAH IT. >> IS.

>> YEAH, IT IS. AND THE ISSUES THAT I NOTED WITH IT, IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WERE ASKING FOR, IS THAT IT'S NOT REALLY SAVING THE UTILITY CUSTOMERS MONEY BECAUSE THEY'RE STILL PAYING THE COMPLETE VALUE OF THE DEBT THAT WE WOULD HAVE ISSUED AS REVENUE BONDS, BECAUSE INSTEAD THAT SAVING, THEY'RE STILL PAYING THAT FULL AMOUNT, BUT THE AMOUNT THAT WE'RE SAVING IS GOING TO

STREETS. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? >> I HOPEFULLY HOPEFULLY OKAY. >> AND THEN IT'S TYING ABOUT 7% OF THE REVENUE THAT'S GOING FOR STREET MAINTENANCE TO DEBT. RIGHT. WHICH IS AN ISSUE BECAUSE MAINTENANCE SHOULDN'T BE FUNDED BY PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT RECEIVING THE BENEFIT FROM IT. SO BECAUSE ESSENTIALLY THEY'RE PAYING ESSENTIALLY WE'RE HAVING PEOPLE IN THE FUTURE PAY FOR THE MAINTENANCE THAT WE'RE DOING NOW, WHICH FOR DEBT, SORRY FOR CONSTRUCTION MAKES SENSE. YOU'RE TRYING TO SPREAD THE COST OF THE NEW THING OVER THE USEFUL LIFE OF THE ASSET, BUT FOR MAINTENANCE DOESN'T MAKE IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. THAT'S WHY IT'S ILLEGAL TO USE DEBT TO FUND MAINTENANCE. WE'RE NOT ACTUALLY DOING THAT BECAUSE WE'RE WE'RE DOING IT WITH THIS. SAVINGS THING. RIGHT? SO WE'RE NOT USING DEBT, BUT WE'RE TYING DEBT ISSUANCE TO THE MAINTENANCE

REVENUE. >> OKAY. >> I KNOW IT'S I KNOW IT'S

CONFUSING. >> I MIGHT HAVE TO HAVE STICK FIGURES OR SOMETHING HERE TO ILLUSTRATE THAT. YEAH. OKAY. AND WAS THERE AND WAS THERE A TAX COMPONENT IN THERE.

>> YEAH. SO AND THEN WE ALSO TALKED ABOUT THE CITY'S DEBT BURDEN IS INCREASING BY DOING THIS BASICALLY. SO BY ISSUING THE CEOS INSTEAD OF THE REVENUE OKAY.

>> SO THERE WERE TWO FUNDING SOURCES, NOT THREE I MISUNDERSTOOD. YES OKAY. OKAY.

THANK YOU. >> REPRESENTATIVE TWO. >> THANK YOU. SOME OF US HAVE BEEN HERE FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS. AND AS WE'VE DONE THESE, THESE VERY STREET BUDGETING OVER THE, YOU KNOW, I'LL JUST PICK ON COUNCILOR BYRD, MYSELF AND THE MAYOR AS WE'VE, HAVE WE WE'VE WE'VE HEARD ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE NEEDS OF THE STREET DEPARTMENT OVER YEARS. AND, YOU KNOW, WE WERE MUCH HEARTENED TO HEAR ABOUT, YOU KNOW, MORE RELIANCE ON OCI AND EVERYTHING. AND SO I GUESS WITHOUT. HOW DID HOW DID WE GET TO THE TO THE CIRCUMSTANCE WHERE WE WERE, WHERE WE FIND OURSELVES IN YOUR AUDIT, DID YOUR AUDIT REVEAL ANY ANY? WAYS THAT WE GOT TO THE CURRENT CONDITION? AND IS THAT REFLECTED IN YOUR RECOMMENDATIONS FOR FUTURE DIRECTION? AND I'M NOT I'M NOT LIKE INTERESTED IN TALKING ABOUT INDIVIDUAL STAFF OR PHILOSOPHY,

BUT MORE GENERAL PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION PHILOSOPHY. >> OKAY.

>> WITHOUT GOING INTO MUCH DETAIL, WE GOT HERE BECAUSE WE HAD THE WRONG PEOPLE DOING IT.

AND JUST TO BE REAL CLEAR, STEVEN ONLY TOOK THIS OVER ABOUT SIX MONTHS AGO AND CASSEY WASN'T OVER MUCH BEFORE THAT. THE PERSON THAT WAS OVER THIS IS NO LONGER HERE. AND SO CASSEY RECOGNIZED SOME SERIOUS ISSUES AND ASKED FOR AN AUDIT. AND SO BASICALLY THIS WAS POOR MANAGEMENT, POOR OVERSIGHT. AND NOW WE'RE RECOGNIZING WE HAVE A PROBLEM. AND WE'VE ASKED MADISON TO DO AN AUDIT, WHICH SHE'S DONE A GREAT JOB OF AND CASSEY WE'VE HAD A MEETING WITH STEVEN, AND

[02:00:02]

>> WELL. >> ASK HER HOW FAR IT. >> GOES BACK, HOW FAR IT GOES

BACK. >> YEAH. CAN YOU TELL US HOW FAR.

>> IT GOES BACK? WELL, IT GOES BACK. >> FROM IT. THE PERSON THAT WAS OVER THIS AREA IS NO LONGER HERE. I'M NOT GOING TO THROW THE BLAME ON ANYBODY OTHER THAN WHEN YOU WHEN YOU'RE DOING THINGS NOT COMPLETELY THE RIGHT WAY AND YOU KEEP DOING THEM THAT WAY, IT ALWAYS BECOMES THAT WAY. IF YOU ALWAYS DO WHAT YOU ALWAYS DID, YOU ALWAYS GET WHAT YOU ALWAYS GOT. WHAT WE WERE SAYING ON OCI AND EVERYTHING'S CORRECT ABOUT LOOKING AT THE OCI ROADS AND THEN PUTTING THEM IN A SYSTEM AND HAVING THEM PRIORITIZED AND ALL THAT. I'M NOT SURE THAT THEY WERE MONITORING THE DATA. THEY WEREN'T STAYING ON TOP OF IT. THE FINANCIAL PART OF IT WASN'T BEING MANAGED APPROPRIATELY. THE PROCUREMENT WASN'T BEING HANDLED APPROPRIATELY. SO EVERY ASPECT, THERE WERE BALLS BEING DROPPED. AND SO CASSEY RECOGNIZED IT WHEN IT CAME UNDER HER. AND STEVEN HAS HAD IT FOR SIX MONTHS, SO NO ONE REALLY IN THIS ROOM IS TO BLAME. BUT MADE SOME CHANGES HAD TO BE MADE. WE HAD TO ASK MADISON TO COME IN AND GIVE US A TRUE AUDIT. IT'S NOT PRETTY, BUT WE KNOW NOW WHAT WE NEED TO FIX, HOW WE NEED TO FIND THE PEOPLE WHO NEED TO DO THE RIGHT THING ABOUT THE BUDGETING, PART OF THE PROCUREMENT PART OF IT. IT WAS NOT BEING HANDLED RIGHT. PERIOD.

IT'S BEEN GOING ON PROBABLY FOR 3 TO 4 YEARS. WOULD YOU SAY? THAT'S RIGHT. CASSEY MAYBE

LONGER. >> YEAH. AND I THINK SOME OF THE ISSUE OBVIOUSLY THE MANAGEMENT ISSUE IS PART OF THE PROBLEM BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT ABLE TO MAKE THE CASE AS WELL FOR WHY THEY NEED MORE RESOURCES. RIGHT. BECAUSE YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO SAY, WELL, YOU WANT US TO HAVE A 70 OCI. WE CAN LOOK AT ALL OF OUR DATA AND SAY, WELL, TO DO THAT, WE NEED THIS MUCH MORE MONEY TO FUND MAINTENANCE. WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE THOSE PLANNING TOOLS TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THOSE PROJECTS WILL COST, IT'S REALLY DIFFICULT TO MAKE THAT CASE RIGHT.

>> AND WHEN YOU'RE NOT PROCURING THINGS CORRECTLY OR HANDLING THE FINANCIAL PART OF IT RIGHT. HOW DO YOU SAY YOU NEED MONEY WHEN YOU CAN'T, WHEN YOU'RE NOT SHOWING HOW YOU'RE HANDLING IT? AND IT'S A IT WAS IT'S JUST LIKE I SAID, IT'S UGLY PICTURE. BUT CASSEY SAID IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE.

AND WE'RE GOING TO FIX IT JUST LIKE WE'VE DONE SOME OTHER AREAS. BUT IT NEEDED TO BE EXPOSED. AND WE, LIKE CASSEY ASKED FOR THIS TO BE DONE. SO YOU CAN SEE THAT WE RECOGNIZE THERE WAS A PROBLEM, BUT IT'S NOT UNLIKE SOME OTHER THINGS THAT WE'VE HAD TO BRING FORWARD

TO YOU. AND JUST TELL YOU THE TRUTH. >> YEAH. AND THEN IN THE LONG TERM, WHEN YOU'RE UNDERFUNDING MAINTENANCE, IT REQUIRES THESE LARGER INVESTMENTS IN AND CONSTRUCTION AND RECONSTRUCTION. RIGHT. AND THAT JUST COSTS WAY A LOT MORE MONEY. AND SO ONE OF THE ISSUES, RIGHT IS YOU CAN SEE WE HAVE ALL OF THESE ROADS IN THE NEW AND PREVENTATIVE.

THEY'RE GOING TO START DEGRADING. RIGHT. AND IF WE DON'T DO MAINTENANCE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO REDO ALL OF THESE ROADS. AND 2015 TO 20 YEARS WITH DEBT. AND THAT WILL BE EXTREMELY CHALLENGING. SO THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WE NEED TO DO MORE MAINTENANCE NOW. BUT WE NEED TO HAVE THE PEOPLE IN PLACE TO CAN ACTUALLY DO IT AND ACCOMPLISH IT ECONOMICALLY.

>> NO, I APPRECIATE THAT. I THINK I THINK YOU'VE HEARD FROM A LOT OF US THAT WE'RE AND I'M ONLY GOING TO SPEAK FOR MYSELF, BUT I THINK THERE'S A GENERAL TREND ACROSS THIS COUNCIL AND PREVIOUS AND PROBABLY NEXT COUNCILS THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE A SHIFT FROM INS TO MRO FOR THESE KINDS OF MAINTENANCE ACTIVITIES. BUT I WILL OFFICIALLY ONLY SPEAK FOR MYSELF ON THAT ONE. AND I, THE MAYOR AND COUNCIL. HOLLAND'S POINT ABOUT CONCRETE VERSUS ASPHALT. I DO THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO BRING IN MY UNDERSTANDING FROM PAST DISCUSSIONS FROM STAFF, IS THAT THE ANNUALIZED COST IS CHEAPER WITH ASPHALT COMPARED TO CONCRETE. SO IT'S WHETHER YOU YOU WANT TO PAY A LOT FOREVER OR, YOU KNOW, KIND OF THING, OR DO YOU WANT TO PAY A MEDIUM AMOUNT ANNUALLY. AND BUT I WOULD I STRONGLY ENCOURAGE STAFF TO BRING THAT FORWARD. AND, AND, YOU KNOW, THROW SOME NUMBERS AT IT SO THAT, THAT PHILOSOPHICALLY WE CAN PUT THAT TO BED.

>> OKAY. >> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS. REPRESENTATIVE DISTRICT FOUR.

>> THANK YOU. MY INTENTION IS NOT TO OFFEND ANYBODY WITH THIS QUESTION, BUT IT SEEMS TO ME THAT WATER, WASTEWATER, THAT'S BIG JOB. THAT'S A BIG, BIG JOB. AND NOW YOU PLUG INTO THAT

[02:05:05]

STREETS. IS THAT TOO MUCH OF A LIFT? >> WELL, AND CASSEY CAN PROBABLY ANSWER MORE, BUT THERE'S A LOT OF ECONOMIES OF SCALE THERE WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT DRAINAGE, STREETS, WATER, WASTEWATER BECAUSE OF THE UTILITIES AND RUNNING THE LINES AND HOW YOU PLAN THERE. THERE IS A PERSON THAT'S UNDER THERE WAS A PERSON THAT WAS UNDER STEVEN THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO HAVE THOSE EXPERTISE AND THINGS LIKE THAT. AND SO IT WASN'T BECAUSE THAT PERSON WAS SUPPOSED TO BE ULTIMATELY RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS AREA. THAT'S SOMETHING YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO ANSWER, AND STEVEN IS GOING TO HAVE TO ANSWER. I THINK I THINK THERE'S ECONOMIES OF SCALE HERE. AND I THINK WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT STREETS, PARTICULARLY MAINTENANCE, NOT CAPITAL PROJECTS ON THE RENEWAL OF STREETS, YOU'RE LOOKING AT REPAIRING STREETS, YOU'RE GOING TO GET INTO DRAINAGE. YOU DON'T DO ANYTHING WITH STREETS WITHOUT LOOKING AT THE DRAINAGE. DON'T

DO ANYTHING DRAINAGE WITHOUT DOING ANYTHING WITH STREETS. >> THAT'S THAT MAKES SENSE.

>> AND SO BUT THEN YOU GOT TO FIGURE OUT WATER, WASTEWATER, WHERE WATER GOES, HOW IT'S CAPTURED, HOW IT GOES OUT INTO DRAINAGE, THE DRAINAGE OF WATER WHEN IT RAINS OR ALL THE OFF THE STREET AND THINGS LIKE THAT. SO IT DOES A LOT OF THIS IS, IS ECONOMIES OF SCALE NOW IS IT TOO MUCH? I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO ADDRESS THE ISSUES OF WHAT WE DO TO HIRE SOMEONE IN A PLACE THAT CAN SPECIFICALLY FOCUS ON STREETS AND DRAINAGE.

>> WELL, AND IF I IF I MAY, WE REALLY I SAW AN OPPORTUNITY BECAUSE WE WERE LACKING IN COORDINATION BETWEEN THE STREETS DRAINAGE AND THEN THE WATER AND WASTEWATER CREWS. SO THERE WAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO COMBINE THOSE AND MAKE SURE THAT THOSE CREWS WERE COORDINATED. THEY WE WERE STANDARDIZING THE ENTIRE PROCESS. AND STEVEN HAS DONE A FABULOUS JOB OF ELEVATING OUR WATER AND WASTEWATER OPERATIONS. AND I BELIEVE HE'S THE RIGHT PERSON TO DO THAT FOR STREETS AND DRAINAGE. IF YOU RECALL, WE DID ADD AN ASSISTANT GENERAL MANAGER FOR WATER AND WASTEWATER. SO DENNIS IS HERE AND HELPING ON THE WATER AND WASTEWATER SIDE NOW WITH STEVEN.

AND SO WE'RE TRYING TO BUILD THAT SUCCESSION PLANNING INTO THE WATER AND WASTEWATER SIDE,

WHILE ALSO ADDRESSING THE STREETS AND DRAINAGE ISSUES. >> OKAY, OKAY. THAT MAKES SENSE.

AND AS I SAY, IT JUST IT'S JUST TWO BIG, BIG AREAS THAT. >> YEAH.

>> AND I THINK TO JUST PIGGYBACK OFF WHAT KASEY SAID A LITTLE BIT, RIGHT. YOU CAN SEE THE RIGHT OF WAY, WATER AND WASTEWATER, SEWER RIGHT, ARE ALL EXACTLY WHERE DRAINAGE IS UNDER THE ROAD. AND SO THAT COORDINATION PIECE, THAT'S WHAT EVERYBODY COMPLAINS ABOUT RIGHT, IS WHY DID YOU COME TEAR UP MY ROAD, PUT IT BACK, AND THEN COME SIX MONTHS LATER AND TEAR IT UP.

IT'S BECAUSE ALL OF THOSE DIFFERENT DRAIN ALL THOSE PIPES UNDER THE ROAD ARE WERE BEING MANAGED BY DIFFERENT PEOPLE. AND SO I THINK THAT IT SHOULD HELP WITH THE COORDINATION THAT IT'S ALL UNDER ONE ON ONE. BUT IT IS A BIG JOB. YOU'RE RIGHT FOR SURE.

>> YEAH. THANK YOU FOR THE CLARIFICATION. THANK YOU. OKAY. >> ALL RIGHT. DRAINAGE NOW PLEASE. SORRY. ALL RIGHT. STORMWATER DRAINAGE SYSTEMS ARE BUILT TO CARRY RAINFALL RUNOFF AND OTHER DRAINAGE THROUGH UNDERGROUND PIPES OR GROUND LEVEL CHANNELS INTO LOCAL STREAMS, RIVERS AND OTHER SURFACE WATER BODIES TO PREVENT FLOODING. STORMWATER CONSISTS OF SURFACE WATERS DERIVED FROM RAIN AND SNOW BELT, AND WHEN LAND IS UNDEVELOPED, MOST STORMWATER SOAKS INTO THE SOIL AND IS NATURALLY INFILTRATED BEFORE REACHING STREAMS AND RIVERS.

HOWEVER, LAND DEVELOPMENT CREATES IMPERVIOUS SURFACES SUCH AS PARKING LOTS OR ROOFS THAT CANNOT READILY ABSORB STORMWATER. THAT, AND THAT CREATES A HIGH VOLUME OF RUNOFF THAT CAN CAUSE FLOODING. IN ADDITION TO CONTROLLING STORMWATER FLOW, DRAINAGE SYSTEMS ARE DESIGNED TO CAPTURE WATER POLLUTANTS TO PREVENT ENTRANCE INTO NATURAL ECOSYSTEMS, MAKING DRAINAGE SYSTEM CRITICAL FOR PUBLIC HEALTH AND SAFETY. THE CITY OF DENTON'S DRAINAGE DIVISION IS GENERALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MAINTENANCE OF DRAINAGE SYSTEM ASSETS, INCLUDING INLETS, PIPES, OUTLETS, AND CHANNELS. HOWEVER, BASIN ASSETS ARE MAINTAINED BY THE WATERSHED DIVISION OF THE OF ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICES AND THE PARK, AND THE AND THE PARKS MAINTENANCE DIVISION OF PARKS AND RECREATION. WHILE AN ASSET MANAGEMENT SYSTEM HAS BEEN IMPLEMENTED FOR DRAINAGE, THE SYSTEM DOES NOT HAVE A COMPLETE INVENTORY OF DRAINAGE ASSETS AND A SYSTEMATIC PROCESS TO IDENTIFY AND ADD MISSING ASSETS TO THE SYSTEM HAS NOT BEEN DEVELOPED FURTHER. WHILE DRAINAGE MANAGEMENT INDICATED THAT THE DIVISION ROUTINELY INSPECTS FOR ASSET TYPES, ONLY ONE 2024 INSPECTION WAS IDENTIFIED FOR 400 RANDOMLY SELECTED ASSETS.

FURTHER, ONLY ABOUT 17% OF THOSE SAMPLED ASSETS SHOWED ANY RECORD OF INSPECTION. SINCE THE SYSTEM WAS IMPLEMENTED IN 2019. AS OUTLINED IN THE TABLE ON THE SLIDE. ADDITIONALLY, UNTIL 2024, PIPE ASSETS HAD NEVER BEEN INSPECTED DUE TO RESOURCE LIMITATIONS. SINCE FEBRUARY OF 2024, THE CITY HAS INSPECTED ALMOST 230,000 LINEAR FEET OF PIPE, WHICH IS AUTOMATICALLY

[02:10:01]

CITY OWNED DRAINAGE INFRASTRUCTURE DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE ROUTINELY INSPECTED AS PREVIOUSLY DISCUSSED. BASED ON THESE FINDINGS, WE RECOMMENDED THAT THE DRAINAGE DIVISION SYSTEMATICALLY INVENTORY AND MONITOR DRAINAGE ASSETS AND DEVELOP SERVICE LEVEL GOALS TO INFORM MAINTENANCE, PRIORITIZATION, PLANNING AND FUNDING. THE DIVISION AGREED WITH THESE RECOMMENDATIONS AND IS WORKING TO FORMALIZE NEEDED SOPS, CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PLAN, AND SERVICE LEVEL GOALS. SO NEXT I'LL COVER DRAINAGE, MAINTENANCE, PLANNING AND WORK PERFORMANCE. DUE TO INCOMPLETE ASSET INFORMATION AND LIMITED INSPECTIONS, THE DRAINAGE DIVISION DOES NOT DEVELOP AN ANNUAL WORK PLAN THAT TIES AVAILABLE FUNDING TO WORKLOAD TARGETS. INSTEAD, WORK IS PRIMARILY REACTIVE, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF STREET SWEEPING, HINDERING THE DIVISION'S ABILITY TO OPTIMIZE RESOURCE USAGE AND INCREASING THE RISK OF FLOODING.

THE DIVISION HAS DEVELOPED A STREET SWEEPING PROGRAM, BUT NO STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURES, POLICIES, EXPECTATIONS, OR OTHER PERFORMANCE METRICS HAVE BEEN ESTABLISHED. WHILE REGULAR STREET SWEEPING ROUTES HAVE BEEN CREATED, THEY'RE NOT PROACTIVELY ADJUSTED BASED ON NETWORK ADDITIONS, SEASONS, OR DEBRIS AMOUNTS AS RECOMMENDED BY BEST PRACTICES. IN ADDITION, STORM CHECKS ARE AN EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS ACTIVITY THAT INVOLVES VISUALLY INSPECTING HIGH RISK DRAINAGE ASSETS TO IDENTIFY AND REMOVE DEBRIS BEFORE STORMS TO HELP PREVENT FLOODING. THE DRAINAGE DIVISION DOES PERFORM STORM CHECKS, AND A STORM RESPONSE PLAN EXISTS.

HOWEVER, A REVIEW FOUND THAT THE PLAN WAS OUTDATED AND STAFF REPORTED THAT IT'S NOT CURRENTLY BEING FOLLOWED, AS ILLUSTRATED IN THE FIGURE, STORM CHECKS ARE GENERALLY PERFORMED DURING RAINY PERIODS, BUT ABOUT 50% OF STORM CHECKS OCCURRED DURING MONTHS, WITH ZERO HIGH RISK FLOOD DAYS INDICATING A MORE FORMALIZED APPROACH WOULD BETTER OPTIMIZE RESOURCE USAGE. BASED ON THESE FINDINGS, WE RECOMMENDED THAT THE DIVISION DEVELOP PERFORMANCE STANDARDS FOR DRAINAGE, ASSET INSPECTIONS, CLEANINGS, REPAIRS, AND STORM CHECKS. BASED ON THEIR RESPONSES, THE DIVISION WILL IMPLEMENT STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURES FOR THESE ACTIVITIES AND THAT SO AND THEN NEXT I'LL DISCUSS DRAINAGE MAINTENANCE FUNDING STRUCTURE. SO IN 2002 THE CITY COUNCIL CREATED A DRAINAGE USER FEE THAT IS CHARGED TO UTILITY CUSTOMERS MONTHLY BASED ON THE IMPERVIOUS SURFACE AREA OF EACH LAND PARCEL, UNLESS THEY DO NOT USE THE DRAINAGE SYSTEM. THIS STRUCTURE IS GENERALLY FAIR AS IT ALIGNS WITH IT ALIGNS THE CHARGE WITH A CUSTOMER'S IMPACT ON THE DRAINAGE SYSTEM. HOWEVER, REVENUES FROM THIS FEE ARE ACCOUNTED FOR IN THE CITY'S WASTEWATER FUND, BUT ARE USED BY THE DRAINAGE DIVISION OF THE PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT AND THE WATERSHED PROTECTION DIVISION OF ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICES. ACCOUNTING FOR DRAINAGE, INFRASTRUCTURE AND THE WASTEWATER FUND LIMITS VISIBILITY OF REVENUES AND EXPENSES, INCREASING THE RISK THAT FUNDING IS INSUFFICIENT, AND HINDERS THE CITY'S ABILITY TO INTENTIONALLY SAVE MONEY FOR DRAINAGE INFRASTRUCTURE NEEDS BY TYING AVAILABLE FUNDING TO THE WASTEWATER DEPARTMENT'S FUND BALANCE. IN ADDITION TO THESE STRUCTURAL ISSUES, DRAINAGE FEE RATES HAVE NOT BEEN UPDATED SINCE THEY WERE CREATED OVER 20 YEARS AGO. DESPITE COST INCREASES AND ADDITIONAL SERVICE NEEDS REQUIRED BY REGULATORY CHANGES, BEST PRACTICES SUGGEST THAT FEES SHOULD BE UPDATED EVERY 3 TO 5 YEARS FOR REFERENCE, DUE TO INADEQUATE RATE CHANGES, IT IS LIKELY THAT REVENUES ARE NOT ADEQUATE TO MEET SERVICE LEVEL GOALS, THOUGH IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT RELEVANT SERVICE LEVEL GOALS HAVE NOT BEEN COMPLETELY FORMALLY ESTABLISHED TO DEFINITIVELY MAKE THAT DETERMINATION. STILL, FOR COMPARISON, THE CITY SPENDS OVER DOUBLE THE AMOUNT OF MONEY ON SIMILAR WASTEWATER COLLECTION, SYSTEM MAINTENANCE AND REPAIRS.

IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT IN 2025, THE CITY DID BEGIN A COST OF SERVICE STUDY FOR PUBLIC WORKS THAT INCLUDES DRAINAGE, MAINTENANCE AND DRAINAGE FEE. LASTLY, THE CITY OF DENTON CHARGES A DRAINAGE FEE TO ABOUT 40,000 UTILITY ACCOUNTS. HOWEVER, THERE ARE ABOUT 7600 ACCOUNTS THAT ARE NOT CURRENTLY BEING CHARGED A FEE. NO GUIDANCE FOR HOW TO DETERMINE IF A DRAINAGE FEE SHOULD BE CHARGED OR HOW IT SHOULD BE CALCULATED, EXISTS FOR CUSTOMER SERVICE

[02:15:03]

UNLESS COUNCIL WOULD LIKE US TO PERFORM ONE SOONER. >> OKAY. THANK YOU. DRAINAGE FREE FEE QUESTIONS. AND AGAIN, IF WE CAN DIVE STRAIGHT INTO QUESTIONS, REPRESENTATIVE OR

MAYOR PRO TEM. >> THANK YOU MAYOR. I JUST WANT TO GIVE REALLY BRIEF LOVE TO DRAINAGE. WE DON'T THINK ABOUT IT UNTIL IT'S IN OUR FACE AND IT'S UNPLEASANT. SO I ASKED SORT OF WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THIS DRAINAGE FAILS? EVERYTHING WE'VE LOOKED AT SO FAR, 61% ARE LIKELY TO FAIL. SO I ASKED, WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE? AND IT CAN CAUSE FASTER ROADWAY DETERIORATION. SO THAT INCREASED COSTS AND POOR QUALITY ROADS, IT CAN INCREASE THE COST OF FLOODING. WE DON'T THINK ABOUT IT UNTIL ALL OF OUR VEHICLES HAVE BEEN FLOODED, AND NOW WE HAVE TO REPLACE THE VEHICLES. OUR HOMES ARE FLOODED. YOU KNOW, THAT'S A HIGH EXPENSE FOR US. AND THEN IT IMPACTS THE STABILITY OF UNDERGROUND UTILITY LINES. SO JUST WANT TO VERBALLY MAKE SURE THAT WE'VE COVERED THAT. AND THEN I JUST WANT TO SAY THANK YOU FOR DOING THE AUDIT. THANKS FOR THOSE WHO REQUESTED THE AUDIT. IT MIGHT NOT BE PRETTY, BUT THAT'S HOW WE MAKE THINGS BETTER. SO I APPRECIATE THAT TRANSPARENCY. I THINK THE COMMUNITY IS GOING TO APPRECIATE THAT TRANSPARENCY AND THE COMMITMENT TO WORK ON IT AND MAKE THINGS BETTER. ON PAGE 14, ITEM SIX OF THE AUDIT, ONE OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS WAS TO FORMALIZE AN ANNUAL WORK PLAN BASED ON STREET SERVICE LEVEL GOALS AND ESTIMATED PROJECT COST INFORMATION. THE SERVICE LEVEL GOALS SHOULD BE FORMALIZED OR REAFFIRMED AT LEAST ANNUALLY IN THE WORK PLAN. ON THAT, I WOULD JUST REQUEST THAT WE INCLUDE THE COST ASSOCIATED WITH EACH SERVICE SERVICE LEVEL OPTION. SO IT'S REALLY CLEAR TO THE AVERAGE TAXPAYER HOW MUCH IT'S GOING TO COST TO DO THOSE DIFFERENT SERVICE LEVELS. I'D LIKE TO SEE US TRY TO WORK ON BEING REALLY CLEAR WHEN WE SAY WE'RE GOING TO PROVIDE THE SERVICE OR PROVIDE THE SERVICE AT THIS LEVEL, THIS IS WHAT IT'S GOING TO COST YOU. SO LATER ON, IF THERE IS A FEE INCREASE OR SOME SORT OF INCREASE, WE CAN POINT BACK TO THAT AND SAY, HEY, THIS IS WHY THAT HAPPENED. WE, AS YOU KNOW, AS A CITY, WE SAID IT WAS GOING TO COST THIS MUCH. SO HERE IT IS. OR IF WE CHOOSE A LOWER COST, YOU KNOW, WHEN THE STREET STARTS FAILING OR WHAT'S WRONG WITH OUR STREETS. WELL, WE THAT WAS WHAT WE DECIDED TO DO. YOU KNOW, WE DIDN'T WANT TO PAY THAT HIGHER COST. SO I THINK CREATING MORE TRANSPARENCY AND JUST CLARITY I THINK FOR TAXPAYERS TO UNDERSTAND, HEY, THIS IS WHAT WE WERE WILLING TO PAY FOR, THIS IS WHAT WE GET OR THIS IS WHAT WE WANTED. AND SO WE HAVE TO PAY FOR IT NOW. AND JUST MAKING THAT A VERY, VERY CLEAR LINE. I THINK I JUST HAVE ONE MORE THING. AND ALSO AS WE'RE SORT OF LOOKING AT SOME OF THESE THINGS, I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO SEE US, YOU KNOW, LOOK AT AND CONSIDER AND DISCUSS WHAT THE OPTIONS ARE TO GENERATE MORE FUNDING WITHOUT, YOU KNOW, TO MAKE MORE EFFICIENT USE OF THE EXISTING INFRASTRUCTURE. SO, YOU KNOW, WE'RE BASICALLY GETTING HELP PAYING FOR IT. IT'S NOT JUST INCREASES TO EXISTING RESIDENTS AND BUSINESSES, BUT WE'RE MAKING BETTER USE OF THE EXISTING INFRASTRUCTURE WITHOUT NECESSARILY ADDING A WHOLE BUNCH MORE THAT NOW WE HAVE TO PAY TO MAINTAIN. SO I'D LIKE TO THAT BE TO BE PART OF THE DISCUSSION AS WE MOVE FORWARD AS WELL. THANK YOU AGAIN FOR ALL YOUR WORK AND

[02:20:02]

KNOW, REALLY DIG INTO THE DETAILS LIKE THIS. >> THANK YOU.

>> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? REPRESENTATIVE FROM DISTRICT TWO.

>> THANK YOU. I'M GOING TO I'M GOING TO JUMP RIGHT ON THAT. THAT'S THE I AM SO THANKFUL THAT WE HAVE I MEAN I KNOW A LOT OF CITIES HAVE AUDITORS, BUT OUR AUDITOR IN PARTICULAR MADISON, IS HAS REALLY IDENTIFIED A NUMBER OF ISSUES IN MY TIME IN COUNCIL THAT WILL ULTIMATELY END UP MAKING THE CITY CHEAPER AND MORE TRANSPARENT. SO I'M REALLY THANKFUL THAT AND TO CASSEY FOR ASKING FOR THAT AND TO ALSO FOLLOW ON FROM MAYOR PRO TEM. AND I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS A QUESTION OR A STEVEN QUESTION OR CASSEY QUESTION, BUT AS WE ARE, AS WE'VE IDENTIFIED THAT WE DON'T HAVE, WE HAVE INADEQUATE MASTER PLANS FOR DRAINAGE AND STREETS, AND THAT THE RECOMMENDATION WAS TO CREATE THOSE WITH APPROPRIATE FUNDING MECHANISMS AND APPROPRIATE COST STRUCTURES, AS WE DO THAT, ONE OF YOUR COMMENTS EARLIER WAS, WELL, WE'RE GIVING $200,000 BACK TO SOME OF THE OTHER GOVERNMENT AGENCIES IN TERMS OF LIKE REFUNDING FINANCES, AND THAT'S AN EXAMPLE OF A MISSED OPPORTUNITY COST. SO I WOULD LOVE TO SEE IT IF WE COULD ESTIMATE AND I. WHAT FAILURE TO IMPLEMENT SOME OF THESE THINGS WILL RESULT ON I THINK THAT'S A SIMILAR SORT OF SENTIMENT AS MAYOR PRO TEM. WHAT ARE THESE LONG TERM COSTS AND WHAT DOES IT COST US IN TERMS OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IMPACT, YOU KNOW, RESOURCE LIFETIMES, THAT SORT OF THING. AND SO THAT'S JUST A REQUEST FOR THAT SORT OF BUDGETING LEVEL. AND I GUESS MY QUESTION IS IT'S SIMILAR TO MY OTHER QUESTION. THE OTHER UTILITIES IS THE BUDGET THAT WE'RE SEEING FOR STREETS INCLUDES THE OLD ESTIMATES FOR THE WAY WE WERE DOING IT BEFORE BEFORE YOUR RECOMMENDATIONS. BUT THIS SEEMS LIKE IT'S PARTICULARLY URGENT IN SOME ITEMS ARE VERGING ON EGREGIOUS. AND SO HOW ARE WE ADJUSTING THE BUDGET FOR THE 2526? IN LIGHT OF THESE MORE URGENT PRIORITIES? AND THAT'S PROBABLY IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE IT'S A MADISON

QUESTION, BUT. >> I DO KNOW THAT FOR STREETS, THEY ARE THEY ARE STARTING TO TRY TO BUDGET BASED ON THE SERVICE LEVEL GOALS THAT WAS SET BY COUNCIL. THE 70, BASED ON A CONSULTANT REPORT THAT WAS PROVIDED A FEW YEARS AGO. SO THEY'RE THEY ARE STARTING TO DO THAT FOR DRAINAGE. I THINK CASSEY MIGHT WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT, BUT I THINK THEY THEY DIDN'T WANT TO CHANGE THE RATES THIS YEAR BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO FINISH THE COST OF.

>> SERVICE STUDY. STUDY. YEAH. >> BUT DO YOU WANT TO ADD ANYTHING? OKAY.

>> NO, I, I ANTICIPATE THAT, BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE FROM YOUR PRELIMINARY FINDINGS, THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME LOW HANGING FRUIT. AND I GUESS I WILL MAKE THE SAME SORT OF COMMENT THAT I DID EARLIER IS TO THE EXTENT THAT WE CAN RIGHTSIZE THIS EARLIER RATHER THAN WAITING A YEAR, BECAUSE AGAIN TODAY, DOLLARS ARE CHEAPER THAN TOMORROW, DOLLARS. SO THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU. OKAY. >> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS. OKAY. LET'S SEE. SO. IN THE EARLIER PORTION I WANTED TO ASK WHEN YOU WHEN YOU COME BACK IN THAT EVALUATION, ANOTHER THING I'D LOVE TO SEE IS. ACCOUNTING FOR STREETS THAT ARE CONVEYED TO US.

SO THEY COME ONLINE. THEY'RE NEW SO WE DON'T BUILD THEM. BUT THE MAINTENANCE AND DO WE PRIORITIZE THOSE? NO. JUST KIND OF WHAT YOUR THOUGHTS ON HOW TO MAINTAIN THOSE. BUT THEN ALSO MAYBE AND THIS IS FOR STAFF MORE THAN AN AUDITOR, MAYBE A GRAPHIC THAT OR JUST A BULLETS. HOW DO HOW DO STREETS COME ONLINE. BECAUSE WE CAN DEVELOPER CAN BUILD THEM. WE THEN THEY'RE CONVEYED OVER. WE BUILD THEM. JUST ALL THE DIFFERENT WAYS THAT THOSE CAN COME INTO OUR NETWORK WOULD BE INTERESTING TO SEE. BUT MORE ON THIS ON OBVIOUSLY I HAD MY OTHER QUESTION. I DON'T WANT TO BELABOR THE POINT HERE. WE HAVE A VOTE TONIGHT ON THE WASTE WATER IMPACT FEES. SO I JUST WANT TO NARROW IT DOWN TO SAY DOES THIS AFFECT THAT RIGHT. DOES THE NUMBER DOES THE COST OF WHATEVER MANAGEMENT DOLLARS HERE AFFECT HOW MUCH WE HAVE IN WASTEWATER FUND, AND DOES THAT

AFFECT THE IMPACT FEES OR. NO. >> THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING. IS THAT BECAUSE WE HAD A CONSULTANT COME IN AND LOOK AT THE COST OF SERVICE, THEY SHOULD HAVE TAKEN OUT THE COST OF DRAINAGE, EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE INTERMINGLED IN THAT FUND. SO THEY SHOULD NOT. BUT IT DOES MAKE IT LESS RIGHT.

[02:25:07]

SEPARATED OUT AND MAKE IT LESS CONFUSING IN THE FUTURE. >> OKAY, SO I TAKE YOUR POINT THERE. BUT SO FOR EXAMPLE, USING YOUR EXAMPLE THAT YOU FOUND THE $270,000, PUT A PIN IN THAT. I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW THOSE AMOUNTS AND HOW THEY WERE GIVEN BACK, BECAUSE ANYTHING THAT WAS GIVEN BACK THAT'S OF SOME NUMBER SHOULD COME TO US. AND MAYBE IT DID, MAYBE IT DIDN'T. BUT JUST I WANT TO I WANT TO UNDERSTAND THE REFUND MECHANISM, CHECKS AND BALANCES ON THAT. WHAT COMES TO COUNCIL, WHAT DOESN'T. THAT'S SEPARATE AND APART FROM THIS CONVERSATION. BUT I WANT TO THAT'S SOMETHING TO FOLLOW UP ON. I DON'T WANT SOMEONE JUST INDEPENDENTLY FIRING OFF CHECKS.

>> YEAH I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THAT CAME TO COUNCIL, BUT IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN BECAUSE THEY

WENT TO SEPARATE ENTITIES SO THAT THAT'S THE TOTAL NUMBER. >> YES.

>> SO BUT I AGREE WITH YOU. >> YES. I JUST WANT TO KNOW WHAT THAT NUMBER IS. BECAUSE IF IT DEPENDS ON NUMBER OF ENTITIES BY MATH IT GETS ABOVE LIKE WHATEVER THE CITY MANAGER'S AUTHORIZED IS LIKE 50,000. OKAY. THAT COULD GO BOTH WAYS. LIKE SHE CAN AUTHORIZE A REFUND OF 50,000.

BUT ABOVE THAT IT'S GOT TO COME TO COUNT SOMETHING. THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME KIND OF CLEAR.

>> I AGREE. >> YEAH. SO BUT BUT BUT SO THE TWO THE 270 K. LET'S USE THAT OKAY. WHERE WOULD THAT GO IF IT WASN'T REFUNDED. WHICH FUND WOULD THAT GO TO.

>> IT WOULD BE IN WASTEWATER ACCOUNTED FOR UNDER DRAINAGE FEES.

>> OKAY. SO THAT'S NOT ELIGIBLE TO BE CONSIDERED WHEN WE WEIGH HOW MUCH MONEY WE HAVE FOR PROJECTS FOR THAT WOULD BE ASSOCIATED WITH IMPACT FEES. AM I TRACKING RIGHT.

>> CORRECT. >> YEAH. IT'S NOT IT'S TWO SEPARATE.

>> IT'S TWO SEPARATE THINGS. >> OKAY. THAT ANSWER MY QUESTION THEN THE OTHER. OTHER QUESTION I'D HAVE FOR YOU WHEN YOU FOLLOW UP IS YOUR GUIDANCE AND INSIGHT ON AREAS AROUND LIKE CAMPUS LIKE T.W.U, UNT. OBVIOUSLY WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE A LOT OF SALES TAX AROUND THERE. ANY NEW GROWTH IS NOT GOING TO BE TAXED. HOW DO WE MAINTAIN THOSE STREETS? OBVIOUSLY, WE HAVE BRAND NEW STREETS GOING IN AROUND UNT. AND SO IT'S HOW DO WE BEST PRACTICES ON THOSE AREAS THAT AREN'T GOING TO HAVE IF THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE GROWTH, IT'S NOT GOING TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE BUDGET AS FAR AS THAT LINE. IT CONTRIBUTES TO THE BUDGET, CERTAINLY, BUT NOT DIRECTLY IN PROPERTY TAX. AND WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE A LOT OF NEW DEVELOPMENT IN THOSE AREAS THAT ARE GOING TO BE ON THE TAX ROLLS. HOW GUIDANCE ON HOW DO WE, YOU KNOW, MAKE SURE WE HAVE A GOOD MIX OF FUNDING, UNDERSTANDING THOSE AREAS MAY BE SHORTER. OTHER AREAS MAY BE HAVE SURPLUSES. WHAT'S A GOOD MIX. SO I JUST TAKE SOME DIRECTION THERE OKAY. ALL RIGHT OKAY. SO SORRY. YES.

>> SO HOW IT HAPPENED. DON'T KNOW. BUT IT DID THAT THOSE REFUNDS CAME TO COUNCIL FOR APPROVAL. COUNCIL APPROVED IT BUT WE SHOULDN'T HAVE BROUGHT IT TO YOU. SO THAT'S THE CRUX OF IT. THE CRUX IS WE SHOULD NEVER HAVE BROUGHT IT TO YOU FOR REIMBURSEMENT, BECAUSE IT SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN IT SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN REIMBURSED. BUT THAT'S HOW IT HAPPENED BUT SHOULDN'T

HAPPEN. >> YEAH. SO BUT MY FOLLOW UP QUESTION TO THAT. SO THERE IS A POLICY ALREADY ON THE BOOKS THAT SAYS IF A REFUND IS COMING FORWARD. OKAY.

>> YEAH. ESPECIALLY IF IT'S ABOVE. >> MY LEVEL.

>> RIGHT. OKAY. GOOD. OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS. GREAT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

[D. Receive a report, hold a discussion and give staff direction regarding updates to Hickory Street Back In Parking. [Estimated Presentation/Discussion Time: 30 minutes]]

>> APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU. >> THAT TAKES US TO OUR LAST WORK SESSION BEFORE CLOSED. AND THAT'S ID 251059. RECEIVE A REPORT HOLD DISCUSSION, GIVE STAFF DIRECTION REGARDING

UPDATES TO HICKORY STREET. BACK IN PARKING. >> GOOD AFTERNOON MAYOR. COUNCIL MEMBERS FARHAN BYRD, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, TRANSPORTATION SERVICES DIVISION I'M HERE TO PRESENT AUDIT FINDINGS FOR EAST HICKORY STREET. BACK IN PARKING. THE AUDIT INITIATED IN RESPONSE TO COUNCIL MEMBER HOLLAND'S TWO MINUTE PITCH THAT AIMED TO EXPLORE THE OPTIONS OF CONVERTING EAST HICKORY BACK IN PARKING TO TRADITIONAL FRONT END PARKING. BACK IN PARKING ALONG HICKORY STREET WAS A PART OF THE HICKORY GRAND STREET CAPITAL PROJECT, A PART OF THE 2012 BOND PROGRAM THAT SPANNED FROM DOWNTOWN TO LOCUST STREET DOWNTOWN TRAIN STATION TO LOCUST STREET. THE PROJECT COST WAS. THE BUDGET WAS ABOUT $3.2 MILLION, AND BACK THEN THE STAFF

[02:30:07]

AND THE DATA ESSENTIALLY PROVIDED SOME CONTEXT ON HOW THE MINOR INJURIES AND SERIOUS INJURY CRASH RECORDS ARE. AND WHEN IT COMES TO SERIOUS INJURIES, THE CRASH, THERE WERE NO CRASH RECORDS, BASICALLY ZERO SERIOUS INJURY ACCIDENTS STARTING FROM 2019 TO 2024 AND ON MINOR INJURY AS WELL. THE CURVE WAS FLAT AND IT DID NOT. THERE WAS NO INCREASE OR DECREASE ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, THERE WERE MINIMAL NUMBER OF MINOR INJURY ACCIDENTS AS WELL IN THE LAST THREE YEARS. GIVEN THE AUDIT FINDINGS AND LOOKING AT THE CRASH DATA, STAFF PRESENTED THREE POTENTIAL SOLUTIONS. THE FIRST SOLUTION HINGES ON ENHANCING THE PARKING BACK IN PARKING ENFORCEMENT, AND THAT THAT WAY WE CAN CURB THE PARKING VIOLATIONS. THERE ARE THREE ELEMENTS TO THAT. FIRST IS THAT WE COULD IMPROVE ADDITIONAL WE COULD PROVIDE SOME ADDITIONAL SIGNS AND STRIPING ENHANCEMENTS, AND THAT COULD BE COVERED IN THE EXISTING BUDGET AND FUNDING IS AVAILABLE. AND THEN WE COULD ALSO LOOK INTO ENHANCED PARKING ENFORCEMENT, BUT THAT IS TIED TO BUDGET LIMITATIONS BECAUSE WE WOULD NEED ADDITIONAL RESOURCES. POLICE DEPARTMENT WOULD NEED ADDITIONAL ENFORCEMENT RESOURCES WHEN IT COMES TO ENFORCEMENT, AND STAFF ALSO RECOMMENDS AS PART OF THIS SOLUTION THAT WE LOOK ■INTO RECOMMEND RECOMMENDATIONS AND FINDINGS OF THE CITY. ONGOING CITYWIDE PARKING STUDY FOR FURTHER ACTIONS. THE SECOND SOLUTION LOOKS INTO CONVERTING THE BACK END PARKING INTO CONVENTIONAL TRADITIONAL FRONT END PARKING, BUT THAT THE ESTIMATED COST FOR THAT WOULD EXCEED $3.5 MILLION, AND STAFF HAS PROVIDED EXHIBIT THREE AS PART OF THE MATERIAL THAT PROVIDES INFORMATION ON TAKEOFFS AND ESTIMATES. THE THIRD SOLUTION LOOKS INTO CONVERTING EAST HICKORY STREET INTO A ONE WAY COUPLET WHERE.

EAST HICKORY WOULD JOIN THE EAST OAK AND THEN COMPLETE THE COUPLET THAT COULD GO IN EAST OR WEST DIRECTION. BUT FOR THAT RECONFIGURATION, THE COST COULD EXCEED $5 MILLION. AND THEN OF COURSE, WE'LL HAVE TO DO STAFF WILL HAVE TO DO CORRIDOR IMPACT ASSESSMENT AND PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT PROCESS TO ENSURE THAT BUSINESSES IN THIS AREA ARE ARE IN ALIGNMENT. THE ICERS WERE ALSO THE ISR WAS ALSO REVIEWED BY THE MOBILITY COMMITTEE. AND AFTER THE DISCUSSION. YOU KNOW,

[02:35:01]

WHILE AWAITING THE RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THE OF THE CITYWIDE PARKING STUDY.

>> OKAY, QUESTIONS FOR STAFF MAYOR PRO TEM. >> FARHAN I ACTUALLY RECENTLY WENT BACK AND WATCHED THAT CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION. I BELIEVE IT WAS FROM 2013, AND I DIDN'T HEAR ANY OF THEM SPEAK AGAINST THE IDEA IN THE. ONE OF THEIR BIGGEST REASONS FOR BEING IN FAVOR OF IT WAS THE BACK END PARKING OPTION PROVIDED AT LEAST 21, MAYBE 30, UP TO 33 MORE SPACES THAN THE FRONT END. AND I THINK IT SEEMED LIKE EVERYBODY WAS VERY EAGER TO ADD AS MANY PARKING SPACES AS POSSIBLE. BUT THEN ALSO THE SAFETY COMPONENT, DID YOU LOOK AT WHETHER GOING FRONT AND BUT YOU SAID PERPENDICULAR. DID YOU MEAN LIKE FRONT AND ANGLED?

>> PERPENDICULAR IS FRONT END OKAY. JUST HAVE THERE WON'T BE ANGLE. IT WILL BE PERPENDICULAR.

>> PARKING AND THERE'S ROOM FOR THAT. >> WE'LL HAVE TO RECONFIGURE AND

HENCE $3.2 MILLION ESTIMATE. >> SO THAT MAY. SO THAT'S UNCLEAR IF THAT WILL IMPACT THE

TOTAL NUMBER OF SPACES. DID YOU. >> LOOK IT. >> IT AND THAT'S CORRECT. WE THE PREVIOUS ESR AND THE PREVIOUS INFORMATION THAT STAFF RESEARCHED ALSO PROVIDED THE INFORMATION THAT IT WAS LOOKED AT. THIS BACK IN PARKING WAS LOOKED AT AS A COMPLETE STREET SOLUTION, WHICH FROM A CONVENTIONAL STREET WHICH EMPHASIZES ON REDUCING THE TRAVEL TIME OF AUTOS COMPLETE STREETS TYPICALLY LOOK AT ALL MODES AND SERVICE. ALL MODES OF TRAVEL, INCLUDING PEDESTRIAN, BICYCLIST AND MICROMOBILITY USERS AND OTHERS. SO THIS BACK END PARKING WAS DESIGNED TO BE A PART OF COMPLETE STREET SOLUTION, RIGHT?

>> SO ON THE OPTIONS THAT WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, ANYTIME THAT WE'RE MAKING AN INVESTMENT THIS LARGE, I WOULD WANT TO SEE SOME SORT OF ANTICIPATED INCREASE IN TAX REVENUE, SALES TAX REVENUE, PROPERTY TAX OR SAFETY, YOU KNOW, SOME SOME SORT OF ADDED BENEFIT THAT'S MAYBE NOT THERE ALREADY. I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THE IDEA OF I THINK WHEN WE BUILT THIS THE FIRST TIME IT WAS THE BUSINESSES WERE UNDER A LOT OF STRAIN DURING THE CONSTRUCTION. I HEARD ABOUT HOW SOME OF THAT WENT. SO I'M A LITTLE CONCERNED ABOUT ADDING CONSTRUCTION TO THE BUSINESSES. PROBABLY FOR MONTHS IS HOW LONG THAT WOULD TAKE FOR WHAT'S UNCLEAR TO BE A FINANCIAL OR SAFETY BENEFIT. SO IT WILL PROBABLY REDUCE SOME CONFUSION AND SOME FRUSTRATION. I WOULD SAY IT PROBABLY WOULD. BUT IN TERMS OF ECONOMIC OR SAFETY BENEFITS, I'M NOT SEEING A CLEAR BENEFIT IN THAT REGARD TO DO THIS. IT DOESN'T IT DOESN'T REALLY HELP THE PEDESTRIAN ENVIRONMENT. AND THOSE ARE THE FOLKS THAT ARE GOING IN AND SPENDING THE MONEY AT THE BUSINESSES. I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF STREETS WHERE THIS AMOUNT OF MONEY COULD ACTUALLY INCREASE INVESTMENT IN THAT AREA. SO MAYBE THE OTHER PART OF HICKORY STREET, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. I DID HAVE ANOTHER THOUGHT. AND I'M DEFINITELY NOT FOR THE ONE WAY IT JUST ESPECIALLY FOR VISITORS, IT MAKES IT REALLY HARD TO NAVIGATE. OH, AND I THINK MY FINAL THOUGHT WAS, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE A LOT OF SPACES NEARBY THAT ARE NOT BACK END THAT ARE ALONG HICKORY STREET. AND MY EXPERIENCE HAS BEEN WHEN THOSE LOTS ARE FULL, SO ARE ALL OF THE HICKORY SPOTS AS WELL. SO IF ANYTHING, IT'LL EITHER BE THE, I GUESS, THE SAME NUMBER OF PARKING SPOTS, MAYBE FEWER, OR I GUESS WE'RE NOT EVEN SURE IF

WE'RE LOSING PARKING SPOTS BY CHANGING THIS. >> WE ARE NOT SURE BEFORE WE DO

[02:40:04]

AS THE DATA SHOWS, CRASH DATA SHOWS THERE THERE WOULD NOT BE SIGNIFICANT SAFETY ADVANTAGES.

BUT WHEN IT COMES TO ENFORCEMENT, STAFF IS WAITING ON CITYWIDE PARKING STUDY OUTCOME.

AND IF WE ENHANCE ENFORCEMENT WITH THE USE OF TECHNOLOGY IN PHASES, WE DON'T HAVE TO DO IT OVERNIGHT. BUT WE CAN DO IT IN PHASES, STARTING FROM DOWNTOWN AS A AND. IN, AND ADD SOME IMPROVEMENTS TO SIGNAGE AND STRIPING. WE COULD RESOLVE MOST OF THE ISSUES THERE, RIGHT?

>> SO I MEAN, I THINK AT THIS POINT IN TIME, I THINK IF THE STREET WAS READY TO BE RECONSTRUCTED, THAT WOULD BE A GOOD TIME TO MAYBE LOOK AT CHANGING IT UP. UNFORTUNATELY, CONCRETE LASTS LONGER THAN ASPHALT, SO IT'S GOING TO BE A WHILE. BUT YOU KNOW, WHEN THERE'S TIME FOR LIKE A LARGER PROJECT TO HAPPEN, THAT MIGHT BE A GOOD TIME TO CONSIDER KIND OF MOVING IT. AT THIS TIME, I DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE SPENDING THAT MUCH MONEY FOR WHAT DOESN'T APPEAR TO BE ECONOMIC BENEFIT OR SAFETY BENEFIT. IT'S EITHER NEUTRAL OR MAYBE SLIGHTLY LESS SAFE. WE REALLY DON'T KNOW. BUT THERE'S JUST NO NO BIG CHANGE THERE. SO I WOULD I WOULD BE INCLINED TO SEE IF WE CAN FIND A WAY TO, TO ENFORCE IT A LITTLE BIT BETTER.

>> THANK YOU. >> OKAY. ANYONE ELSE? REPRESENTATIVE DISTRICT TWO.

>> THANK YOU. YEAH. SO I'M HEARING IF I SUMMARIZE THAT THERE'S MODEST TO NO IMPROVEMENTS IN SAFETY MAYBE MAYBE POSSIBLY IMPROVEMENTS MAYBE POSSIBLY LOSS IN SPOTS.

AND SO TO A TO A PRICE TAG OF $3.5 MILLION. AND ONE OF THE ARGUMENTS COULD BE MADE THAT.

FRONT END PARKING MIGHT IMPROVE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT. BUT AND I'LL ASK THIS IN THE FORM OF A QUESTION, BUT MY, MY EXPERIENCE HAS BEEN THAT THE ECONOMIC VITALITY OF THAT SEGMENT OF HICKORY HAS IMPROVED. I KNOW IT'S NOT REALLY YOUR AREA, YOUR TRANSPORTATION, BUT HAVE WE EXPERIENCED ANY LOSS OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IN IN THESE SEGMENTS?

>> STAFF IS NOT SURE ABOUT THIS. I WE COULD WE'LL HAVE TO CIRCLE BACK TO ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT. BUT FROM THE STANDPOINT OF BUSINESS ACTIVITY, IF WE START A CONSTRUCTION PROJECT THERE, IT WILL IMPACT BUSINESSES. AND THEN VERSUS IF WE HAVE FRONT END OR BACK END PARKING, HOW SIGNIFICANT THE IMPACT WOULD BE YET TO BE SEEN AFTER CONVERSION? WE COULD ONLY DEFINE THAT. BUT STAFF ASSUMES THAT, YOU KNOW, ONCE WE HAVE FINDINGS FROM CITYWIDE PARKING, THEN WE'LL HAVE A RATHER CLEAR PICTURE ON WHAT IMPROVEMENTS COULD BE DONE AND IN PHASES AND

MAYBE SOME ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT SIDE OF IT AS WELL. >> SO NO, I APPRECIATE THAT. I GUESS IN LIGHT OF, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW, UNCLEAR TO AGAIN, YOU KNOW, NOT NEGATIVE. I KNOW THOSE ARE DOUBLE NEGATIVES. I'M GOING TO RECOMMEND STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION

OF DON'T CHANGE THE CONFIGURATION. >> OKAY. ANYONE ELSE?

REPRESENTATIVE DISTRICT FOUR. >> THANK YOU. >> THE TECHNOLOGY DEPARTMENT AT DISTRICT FOUR HAS SPARED EVERY EXPENSE ON THIS CHART. WE TALKED JUST A MINUTE BEFORE. BEFORE THE MEETING. WOULD YOU WOULD YOU TELL ME THAT THIS THIS NEEDS TO BE A TRIANGLE INSTEAD OF A

SQUARE OR A RECTANGLE? WHAT IS THAT SHAPE? >> RECTANGULAR. ANYWAY, IF YOU

COMPLETE THAT. >> SO TRAPEZOID. IS THAT RIGHT? >> YEAH.

>> IS THAT RIGHT? IS THAT RIGHT HERE. >> IT NEEDS THE THIRD.

>> DIMENSION OKAY. ABOVE. >> GO AHEAD. >> SO IT OUGHT TO BE THAT. WAY OKAY. WHY COULDN'T WHY COULDN'T ALL OF THIS THIS ANGLE BE MADE THIS WAY. AND ALL OF THESE SPOTS. BECAUSE BECAUSE THIS AREA RIGHT IN HERE DOESN'T NEED TO CHANGE. AND THIS THIS ANGLE GOES THIS WAY. IT'S THE SAME SPACE. IF WE JUST CUT OFF THE CUT OFF THE ENDS, THE CENTER. THE CENTER

SEEMS TO ME DOESN'T DOESN'T AFFECT IT. >> YEAH. SO THEN RESTRIPING IS ANOTHER QUESTION BECAUSE IT'S RIGHT NOW AT ANGLE. AND THEN THERE ARE OTHER STEPS THAT WOULD COME UP IF YOU HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AT THE TAKEOFFS AND ESTIMATES THAT STAFF PROVIDED, IT WILL IF WE TOUCH, WE'LL HAVE TO LOOK AT ADA ACCESSIBILITY. WE'LL HAVE TO

[02:45:07]

>> I'VE GOT I'VE GOT A COUPLE OF OTHER THOUGHTS ABOUT THIS. ALL THAT WE'RE DOING HERE IS JUSTIFYING A BAD IDEA. IT'S JUST A BAD IDEA. AND WE'RE GOING TO COME UP WITH ALL THESE REASONS THAT THIS IS NOT SUCH A BAD IDEA, BUT ULTIMATELY, IT'S SIMPLY A BAD IDEA. THERE'S BEEN ZERO DEMAND AROUND TOWN. LET'S HAVE SOME MORE BACK END PARKING. NOT ONE PERSON HAS SAID THAT, NOT ONE PERSON. AND I'VE DONE A VERY, VERY UNSCIENTIFIC STUDY AROUND EAST HICKORY STREET ASKING MERCHANTS AND PEDESTRIANS AND MOTORISTS ABOUT THE BACK END PARKING. NOT ONE PERSON TOLD ME THEY LIKE IT. GOSH, WE WISH YOU'D CHANGE THAT. IT CONFUSES THE DRIVERS. THAT'S THE THAT'S THE FIRST POINT YOU MADE. AND ALL OF THIS. THE GENESIS OF ALL THIS WAS AN EXPERIENCE THAT I HAD ON SAINT PATRICK'S DAY IN, IN FRONT OF WELLS FARGO BANK. AND, AND THE YOUNG MAN THAT WAS UPSET WITH ME BECAUSE I WAS GOING TO BACK IN, HE DIDN'T UNDERSTAND, AND HE GOT RIGHT ON MY BUMPER AND I COULDN'T BACK UP. SO I STOPPED ANYWAY. WE HAD WE HAD AN UNPLEASANT EXCHANGE AND I'M OKAY WITH THAT. BUT BUT IF MY IF MY MOM OR MY GRANDMOTHER HAD BEEN THERE AND, AND THEY WOULD HAVE HAD THAT THAT EXCHANGE, I'D HAVE BEEN VERY, VERY UPSET ABOUT THAT. AND THAT CREATES TENSION. AND, AND WE DEMONSTRATED JUST RECENTLY THAT WE DON'T NEED ANY MORE TENSION AROUND THERE. THE POLICE WILL NOT ENFORCE THIS. THEY WILL NOT. WE'VE DEMONSTRATED THAT THEY KNOW WHERE IT IS. THEY KNOW THE PROBLEMS. THEY WILL NOT ENFORCE IT. AND IF YOU DRIVE BY THERE ANYTIME, DAY OR NIGHT, I WILL BET YOU 50% OF THE CARS ARE PARKED INCORRECTLY. AS FAR AS THE CRASH DATA, WE'RE DEALING WITH SLOW SPEEDS, SO THERE'S GOING TO BE VERY, VERY LITTLE CHANCE OF PEOPLE GETTING HURT. AND BACK TO MY FIRST POINT. IT'S A BAD IDEA. IT'S GOOFY. YOU HAVE TO EXPLAIN IT TO EVERYBODY. IT'S JUST IT'S JUST UNNATURAL. AND ALL OF THE ADVANTAGES OF BACKING OF DRIVING OUT OF YOUR PARKING, IT'S THE SAME THING. IT'S ONLY BACKWARDS. NOW, HAVING SAID THAT, AND IT'S A BAD IDEA. I CAN'T SPEND $3 MILLION ON IT. SO. SO I JUST SHOT MYSELF IN THE FOOT. BUT DID I SAY IT'S A BAD IDEA? DID I DID I MENTION IT'S A BAD IDEA?

>> IT'S A. >> IT'S A BAD IDEA. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. DOCTOR BUTTON.

>> ANYONE ELSE? REPRESENTATIVE DISTRICT ONE. >> I AM GOING TO GO WITH THE STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION. I WAS ONE OF THE THREE THAT VOTED ON THE MOBILITY COMMITTEE, BUT I WAS REALLY, REALLY WANTING TO FOR US TO HAVE A DEEPER DIVE INTO THIS CONVERSATION, YOU KNOW, AT THIS LEVEL. SO, YOU KNOW, YEAH, IT WAS A BAD IDEA. AND I CERTAINLY DO APPRECIATE YOU ALL COMING BACK WITH US WITH SOME ALTERNATIVES TO THAT $3 MILLION. I CERTAINLY DO THINK THAT WE CAN PUT IT SOMEWHERE ELSE. YOU KNOW, PROBABLY MORE USEFUL THAN THAT. WE'LL JUST

HAVE TO BE CAREFUL. >> ANYONE REPRESENTATIVE FROM DISTRICT SIX. JUST QUICKLY, COUNCILPERSON. JESTER, I THINK WE HAVE THE DIRECTION. WE HAVE THE MAJORITY OF COUNCIL. BUT I WANTED TO SAY JUST A QUICK THANK YOU TO COUNCILPERSON HOLLAND FOR BRINGING SOMETHING TO THE TABLE THAT YOU WERE HEARING FROM OUR CONSTITUENTS AND, YOU KNOW, HAD CONCERNS. AND I CERTAINLY APPRECIATE ALL THE TIME AND EFFORT THAT WAS PUT INTO PUTTING TOGETHER THIS VERY DETAILED PACKET OF INFORMATION FOR US TO DIG IN AND SEE WHAT IT WOULD REALLY COST WITH THE CONSENSUS THAT AT THIS TIME, IT IS NOT THE TIME TO SPEND THIS AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT ALSO IS HAS A COMPONENT OF THE UNKNOWN. BEFORE WE ACTUALLY BID OUT, BEFORE WE ACTUALLY GO AND BUY THE NEW SIGNS, THINGS LIKE THAT. SO I JUST WANT TO SAY THANK YOU TO EVERYONE INVOLVED. AND I ALSO

[02:50:05]

>> THANKS. >> OKAY THEN. JUST SO I LOOK LIKE A PERSON OF THE PEOPLE, I'M GOING TO SAY I WOULD RECOMMEND WE SPEND THE WHOLE 5 MILLION. NO.

>> JUST KIDDING. >> I'M WILLING TO STAND WITH THE PEOPLE. THAT'S JUST THE TYPE OF

GUY I AM. NO, NO, NO. >> MAYOR. >> THIS TECHNOLOGY IS AVAILABLE.

>> TO ALL. >> IT'S AVAILABLE TO. >> ALL OF YOU.

>> SO NO, I DO. I, TOO, APPRECIATE THE CONVERSATION AND STAFF'S ANALYSIS OF IT. I WILL SAY FROM MEMORY I WASN'T ON COUNCIL, BUT I THINK THE DIFFERENCE IS WHEN THEY ORIGINALLY LOOKED AT IT AND THE COMPARISON WAS AUSTIN. WHEN YOU TRAVEL AUSTIN STREETS THAT HAVE BACK END PARKING, THEY HAVE THE CURB IN THE MIDDLE AND WE DON'T HAVE THE CURB IN THE MIDDLE, AND THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE. AND SO I THINK THAT WAS JUST A MISS IN THEIR EVALUATION OF IT. AND I THINK WE'LL HAVE THE RIGHT DEVELOPMENT PROJECT AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE THAT WILL PAY FOR IT AND WIPE OUT WIPE IT ALL OUT ON AT LEAST ON ONE SIDE OF THE STREET WHERE WE HAVE, MAYBE WE COME UP WITH A PARKING GARAGE, OR THERE'S SOME SOLUTION IN THE FUTURE THAT WILL HOPEFULLY HELP FUND WIPING THAT OUT. AND THEN BUT IN THE IN THE SHORT TERM, AS THAT MONEY IS COMING AROUND FOR WHATEVER DEVELOPMENT. I HAVE TWO SUGGESTIONS. ONE, WE TAKE ALL DOWN, DOWN ALL THE SIGNS THAT SAY NO TEXTING AND DRIVING BECAUSE WE DON'T ENFORCE THAT, MELT THAT METAL AND SELL IT FOR MONEY. AND THEN AND THEN ALSO I WOULD, I WOULD IF NORMAN ROSCOE AND THE POLITO FAMILY ARE LISTENING TO ME, LET'S CREATE A SHIRT THAT SAYS BACK IN PARKING.

BUT THE PARKING, THE CAR IS PARKED FORWARD AND, AND IT'S AND IT'S AND IT HAS DENTON, TEXAS ON IT. AND THOSE FUNDS CAN THEN BE GO TO YOUR FAVORITE NONPROFIT OR WHATEVER. BUT THAT'S A FREE IDEA. BUT IT WOULD SAY BACK IN PARKING DENTON, TEXAS, AND A CAR FACING THE WRONG WAY, I THINK THAT WOULD SELL. SO YEAH, IT'S FRUSTRATING, NO DOUBT. BUT YEAH, THE ENDS DON'T JUSTIFY THE MEANS. SO THANK YOU AGAIN FOR THE DATA AND THOSE SORT OF THINGS. SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

[1. Closed Meeting:]

FOOD. COME BACK IN HERE AND WE'LL TAKE THOSE UP WHILE WE. >> AT 630. DID YOU MEAN 453?

>> OH, NO. THE TIMING. YEAH. THE TIME. SIX MINUTES LEFT. SO THANK YOU FOR THE GOOD EVENING. AND THE COUNCIL HAS NOW, AT 6:30 P.M, RECONVENED FROM CLOSED SESSION AND NO OFFICIAL ACTION WAS TAKEN. AND THAT TAKES US TO OUR EVENING'S AGENDA AND. IT IS NOW 630. IT'S

[AFTER DETERMINING THAT A QUORUM IS PRESENT, THE REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY OF DENTON CITY COUNCIL WILL CONVENE AT 6:30 P.M. IN THE COUNCIL CHAMBERS AT CITY HALL, 215 E. MCKINNEY STREET, DENTON, TEXAS AT WHICH THE FOLLOWING ITEMS WILL BE CONSIDERED:]

>> PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS. ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.

>> HONOR THE TEXAS FLAG. I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THEE. TEXAS. ONE STATE UNDER GOD, ONE AND INDIVISIBLE. OKAY. AND WE DON'T HAVE ANY PROCLAMATIONS. IF WE COULD PLAY THE VIDEO ON

[2. PRESENTATIONS FROM MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC]

ADDRESSING COUNCIL. >> THE DENTON CITY COUNCIL HAS ADOPTED RULES OF PROCEDURE, INCLUDING A CODE OF CONDUCT THAT APPLIES TO THE PUBLIC AS WELL AS COUNCIL MEMBERS. THESE RULES WERE ENACTED TO PROMOTE AN ORDERLY PROCESS AND TO PRESERVE DECORUM. SPEAKERS WILL HAVE FOUR MINUTES TO GIVE A SCHEDULED REPORT AND FOUR MINUTES TO GIVE AN OPEN MIC REPORT. A BELL WILL RING WHEN TIME HAS EXPIRED. IF THE REMARKS ARE NOT CONCLUDED BY THAT TIME, THE SPEAKER WILL BE ASKED TO STOP SPEAKING. IF THE SPEAKER DOES NOT CEASE AND A SECOND REQUEST IS MADE, THE

[02:55:03]

RULES OF PROCEDURE ARE AVAILABLE FROM THE CITY SECRETARY. >> THANK YOU. WE HAVE ONE SPEAKER. IT IS MR. LEE. YOU KNOW, IF YOU CAN COME UP AND YOU CAN ADJUST THE MIC ACCORDINGLY,

AND YOU CAN GIVE YOUR NAME AND YOU'LL HAVE FOUR MINUTES. >> THANK YOU, MR. MAYOR.

RECENTLY I HAD MAYOR. >> CAN YOU GIVE ME YOUR NAME? I'M SORRY.

>> OH. >> HONEY, IF YOU CAN GIVE YOUR NAME FIRST.

>> OH, I'M SO SORRY. MY NAME IS LEE ENOCHS. I'M A RESIDENT OF DENTON AND A GRADUATE OF UNT.

>> GO. MEAN GREEN. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. >> RECENTLY, I HAD MAYOR HUDSPETH ON MY PODCAST FOR RADIO. AND I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR COMING ON OUR SHOW AND FOR ALL YOUR GREAT WORK HERE IN THE CITY. I JUST WANTED TO BRING A COUPLE OF THINGS TO YOU FOLKS.

ATTENTION REGARDING HOMELESS HERE IN DENTON RECENTLY. AS A BICYCLE ENTHUSIAST, I'M A MAJOR BIKE RIDER. I WENT TO PRINCETON AND RODE 15,000 MILES DURING MY THREE YEARS AT PRINCETON. AND HAVEN'T ROLLED THAT MUCH SINCE I'VE BEEN HERE. BUT I RIDE A LOT AND I'M ON THE BIKE TRAIL ONE TWILIGHT EVENING AND I ALMOST HIT A HOMELESS PERSON NEAR BRINKER STREET. A PERSON SLEEPING ON ON THE BIKE TRAIL, AND THEY WERE SLEEPING WITH THEIR PITBULL. AND I NOTICED THAT THERE WERE, DURING THAT TRIP, SEVERAL HOMELESS LITTLE ENCAMPMENTS, LITTLE SLEEPING IN CREVICES AND STUFF. AND I'VE TAKEN SEVERAL TRIPS UP THAT WAY SINCE AND SEEN SIMILAR THINGS.

AND I WANT TO BRING THAT TO YOUR ATTENTION. RECENTLY I AT THE FAMILY DOLLAR AT MAPLE STREET, MAPLE STREET, A LITTLE HOMELESS ENCAMPMENT HAS DEVELOPED IN THE ON THE IN FRONT OF THAT ESTABLISHMENT. WHEN I WENT TO SPEAK TO THE. THIS IS TWO BLOCKS FROM MY HOUSE, SPEAK TO THE MANAGER AND SHE SAID YES, WE'RE NOW ALLOWING THIS HOMELESS INDIVIDUAL TO LIVE THERE. AND I ASKED HER, SO WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO USE ALL THE AMENITIES, YOU KNOW, THE RESTROOM? SHE HAD NO ANSWER. I JUST DIDN'T THINK THAT WAS THE PROPER PLACE FOR A HOMELESS PERSON. NOW I HAS COME TO MY ATTENTION THAT HOMELESS PEOPLE ARE. HAVE THEIR SERVICES HAVE BEEN CUT AT OUR DAILY BREAD. AND I WOULD JUST BRING THAT TO YOUR ATTENTION. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE ANSWER IS, MAYOR.

AND MY, YOU KNOW, HONORABLE COUNCIL MEMBERS, BUT LITTLE POCKETS OF HOMELESSNESS ARE ARISING OR ENCAMPMENTS ARE SPROUTING UP IN DENTON. I TALKED TO OFFICER HILL ABOUT IT. I GUESS HE'S REALLY IN TUNE WITH GOING ON WITH THE HOMELESS HERE IN THE CITY. AND HE DID CONFIRM WHAT HAS BEEN TOLD TO ME BY A COUPLE DIFFERENT POLICE OFFICERS THAT OTHER CITIES ARE PUTTING HOMELESS PEOPLE ON TRAIN, ON THE TRAIN, ON THE ON THE TRAIN THAT COMES HERE TO DENTON, AND GIVING A ONE WAY TRIP HERE DUE TO PERCEIVED LENIENCY OF THE CITY TOWARDS HOMELESS. I AM NOT IN ANY WAY DISPARAGING HOMELESS, AND I WANT THEM TO GET ALL THE CARE THAT THEY CAN GET, BUT I DON'T THINK ALLOWING THEM TO ENCAMP IN FRONT OF FAMILY DOLLAR AND OTHER PLACES IS THE ANSWER.

AND IF IT IS TRUE THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE MORE MONEY ALLOCATED TOWARDS THE HOMELESS HERE IN DENTON, I'LL LEAVE THAT TO YOU TO ADDRESS. BUT I JUST WANT TO BRING THIS TO YOUR ATTENTION.

I'VE NEVER DONE THIS BEFORE, BUT I FELT COMPELLED BY CONSCIENCE AND PROBABLY INSPIRED BY THE

[03:00:02]

THAT'S ALL I WANTED TO SAY. >> YEAH. NO. AND I WILL SAY JUST THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. AND SO JUST SO YOU KNOW, THE CITY OF DENTON DOES DOES HAVE A YOU CAN'T CAMP IN THOSE AREAS. AND WE'RE ADDRESSING THOSE CONCERNS WHERE PEOPLE ARE CAMPING OR LAYING IN AREAS. WE DO HAVE A PROHIBITION ON THOSE THINGS. AND WE HAVE IN MANY WAYS ENHANCED THE SHELTER. THE HOURS HAVE CHANGED, CERTAINLY, BUT WE HAVE EVERYONE THERE GETS WRAPAROUND SERVICES. NOW BEFORE WE DIDN'T HAVE THAT CAPACITY. SO I THINK IT'S ROUND NUMBERS 120. PEOPLE ARE ABLE TO GET WRAP AROUND SERVICES, AND THAT IS OUR FOCUS TO MAKE SURE WE GET THEM THE SERVICE THEY NEED TO HELP THEM GET BACK ON THEIR FEET. AND THEN IF YOU DIDN'T KNOW, WE HAVE A READY FOR WORK PROGRAM WHERE WE'RE NOW PUTTING PEOPLE TO WORK, THEY GO THROUGH A PROGRAM, GO THROUGH TRAINING, AND WE HAVE THEM WORKING AT THE LANDFILL, AT THE ANIMAL SHELTER AND SOME IN THE AUTO MECHANIC SHOP. SO WE'RE WE'RE TRYING TO DO ALL THINGS WE CAN TO HELP THOSE THAT NEED A HAND UP, GET A HAND UP. SO BUT AS YOU SEE THINGS, PLEASE, THE 311, THE NUMBER FOR EVERYTHING. IF YOU SEE ISSUES AND THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THAT TO OUR ATTENTION, WE WOULD ADDRESS THAT. SO PLEASE CONTINUE TO HELP US HOLD US ACCOUNTABLE TO MAKE SURE WE DO WHAT WE SAY WE'RE GOING TO DO. THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. APPRECIATE IT. OH, NEXT SPEAKER IS DAN BERMAN OR BURNHAM. THERE WE GO. IF YOU

CAN GIVE YOUR NAME YOU'LL HAVE FOUR MINUTES. >> THANK YOU FOR HAVING.

>> ME HERE. MY NAME IS DAN BURNHAM, HOMEOWNER HERE IN THE CITY OF DENVER. ABOUT 35 YEARS.

I'VE COME HERE TO ADDRESS, I UNDERSTAND THAT ICE HAS COME TO OUR CITY AND REQUESTING DISCUSSIONS ON 287 G. SOME PEOPLE MIGHT WANT TO DISCUSS HOW THIS CAN AFFECT LOCAL BUSINESSES. SOME PEOPLE MAY WANT TO DISCUSS WHAT PORTIONS OF THE PROGRAM ARE UNFUNDED OR FUNDED.

I'M AFRAID I'M JUST HERE TO EXPRESS MY MORAL OUTRAGE. I BELIEVE THAT AT LEAST THREE OF OUR COUNCIL MEMBERS HAVE ALREADY SPOKEN OUT AGAINST WORKING WITH ISIL ON THIS. I UNDERSTAND ISIS IS A GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT AGENCY, BUT I DO NOT WANT TO SEE MY CITY. I DO NOT WANT TO SEE MY POLICE DEPARTMENT COOPERATE WITH THIS ORGANIZATION IN ANY FORM OR FASHION. A YEAR AGO, TO COMPARE ICE TO HITLER'S GESTAPO, I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT WAS HYPERBOLE. BUT AFTER WHAT WE HAVE SEEN IN RECENT MONTHS ON NATIONAL TV, THAT'S NO LONGER THE CASE. IN GERMANY, THE PEOPLE OF GERMANY, THE CITY GOVERNMENTS, THEY JUST WANTED TO BE IN COMPLIANCE WITH AND COOPERATE WITH THEIR GOVERNMENT. BUT WE SAW HOW THAT TURNED OUT. SIMPLE COMPLIANCE IS NOT ALWAYS THE BEST, MOST HIGH MORAL GROUND, NOR EVEN THE MOST EFFECTIVE FOR TAKING CARE OF YOUR CITIZENS. ICE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PROTECTING ME OR THE OTHER CITIZENS OF THE CITY OF DENTON. UNFORTUNATELY, THEY'RE NOT EVEN TOTALLY ABOUT DEPORTATION. WE'VE GOT DEPORTATION CENTERS STRETCHED ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY THAT ARE FULL. THEY'RE MAXED OUT, THEY'RE OVERLOADED, AND THE PEOPLE ARE NOT EVEN THEY'RE NOT EVEN HAVING SUCCESS IN DEPORTING THESE PEOPLE. GOT EVERY FBI, EVERY AGENCY CRAMMING PEOPLE IN THERE, BUT WE CAN'T GET THEM SUCCESSFULLY DEPORTED. IS THAT BECAUSE OF THE INCOMPETENCY OF THE ADMINISTRATION? POSSIBLY SO.

BUT A GREAT DEAL OF IT IS BECAUSE THESE DETENTION CENTERS ARE PROFIT CENTERS, OKAY? THEY MAKE MONEY ON THE HEDGE OF EVERY SINGLE INDIVIDUAL THAT IS IN THERE. I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS MORE. IT JUST OUTRAGES ME. I DON'T WANT TO SEE OUR CITY PARTICIPATING IN THAT. AND THOSE OF YOU I BLOCKED WALK FOR YOU SEVERAL TIMES, SIR. AND I THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR SPEAKING OUT

AGAINST THIS ISSUE. >> THANK YOU. NEXT SPEAKER IS TERRY NOBLES. IF YOU CAN COME

DOWN AND GIVE YOUR NAME, YOU HAVE FOUR MINUTES. >> GOOD EVENING. MY NAME IS TERRY NOBLES, AND I'M A LONGTIME VOLUNTEER IN THE CITY OF DENTON IN VARIOUS ORGANIZATIONS, MOSTLY ART ORGANIZATIONS. I AM A 19 YEAR BOARD MEMBER OF THE DENTON FESTIVAL FOUNDATION, WHICH PUTS ON THE DENTON ARTS AND JAZZ FESTIVAL. WE HAVE RECENTLY RECEIVED INFORMATION THAT THE CITY HAS SOME BUDGETARY DIFFICULTIES AND THAT THEIR COOPERATION WITH US, AS THEY

[03:05:04]

SO TO ADD ALMOST HALF AGAIN, AS MUCH TO THAT BUDGET IS A IS AN ECONOMIC HARDSHIP. SO I'M MAINLY HERE TO JUST PROMOTE THE CITY AND ALL OF OUR WONDERFUL ACTIVITIES HERE. I MY KIDS HAVE GROWN UP GOING TO THE DENTON ARTS AND JAZZ FESTIVAL, AND I JUST THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO CONTINUE. SO ALL I'M ASKING FOR IS JUST CONSIDERATION IN YOUR BUDGETARY MEETINGS WHEN IT COMES TO THIS, AND ANY ASSISTANCE YOU CAN GIVE US WILL BE MOST APPRECIATED.

>> THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. OKAY. THAT CONCLUDES THE PUBLIC SPEAKERS.

[3. CONSENT AGENDA]

ITEM F REPRESENTATIVE FROM DISTRICT TWO. >> I MOVE APPROVAL OF THE

CONSENT AGENDA, ACCEPTING ITEM F. >> REPRESENTATIVE FROM DISTRICT

FOUR. >> SECOND. >> WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND ANY DISCUSSION? SEEING NONE, LET'S VOTE ON THE SCREEN. PASSES SEVEN ZERO. TAKES US TO ITEM F.

[F. Consider a nomination/reappointment to the City of Denton Planning and Zoning Commission.]

I'VE ALSO TALKED TO THE HOUSING AUTHORITY IN WASHINGTON, D.C. I'VE TALKED TO THE HOUSING AUTHORITY LOCALLY TO MAKE SURE I WASN'T MISUNDERSTANDING. OBVIOUSLY, THERE'S A DISTINCTION BETWEEN WORK AND PERSONAL, BUT I JUST THERE'S THE CONFLICTS AND THE CROSSOVER. I RISE TO THE LEVEL THAT I CAN'T IN GOOD FAITH, SUPPORT THIS INDIVIDUAL SERVING BECAUSE THOSE CONFLICTS, BECAUSE OF OUR ETHICS ORDINANCE, I THINK THERE'S SOME SOME CLEAR ISSUES THAT ARISE WHEN THE TWO ENTITIES, THERE'S ONLY A CERTAIN NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT THAT WILL SERVE AT THIS LEVEL. THERE'S ONLY A CERTAIN NUMBER OF PROVIDERS AS FAR AS DEVELOPERS, ETCETERA, ETCETERA, THAT WORK IN THIS SPACE WITH THIS NUMBER OF UNITS. AND THEN ALSO THEY TAKE A NUMBER OF UNITS OFF THE TAX ROLLS. SO THERE'S A CONFLICT POINT THERE. SO THEY'VE MOST RECENTLY BOUGHT SQUARE NINE AND

[03:10:03]

TWO. >> THIS IS A SEATED MEMBER OF THE PNC. SO I'M HAPPY TO RENOMINATE THEM OR MOTION FOR THE ITEM AS AS PRESENTED BY STAFF.

>> REPRESENTATIVE FROM DISTRICT FIVE. >> HAPPILY.

>> SECOND WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND, ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? REPRESENTATIVE FROM DISTRICT

ONE. >> A DISTINCTION BETWEEN WORK AND PERSONAL. THIS INDIVIDUAL DOES WORK FOR THE HOUSING AUTHORITY, BUT THIS PERSON IS NOT A BOARD MEMBER. THIS THIS INDIVIDUAL DOES NOT MAKE DECISIONS. THIS PERSON IS JUST LIKE OUR OWN CITY MANAGER. THEY GO TO WORK AND TAKE ON THE DECISIONS OF THE BOARD. SO I'M NOT REAL SURE OF HOW THAT PARTICULAR CONFLICT COMES IN WITH THIS PERSON BEING ON PLANNING AND ZONING FOR OUR CITY, WHEN WE REALLY SHOULD CONCENTRATE ON IS THE LEVEL OF COMPETENCY THAT THIS INDIVIDUAL HAS. THIS IS A PROFESSIONAL INDIVIDUAL IN OUR CITY. SHE WOULD KNOW AS MUCH MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE, PROBABLY SITTING ON THE PLANNING AND ZONING. SO THAT'S HER JOB. I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHERE THE CONSTERNATION IN REGARDS TO COMPETITION. WHEN WE WERE HEARING FROM OUR CONSTITUENTS LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE DAY, NO TO US THAT WE NEED MORE AFFORDABLE HOUSING, AFFORDABLE HOUSING, AFFORDABLE HOUSING, AFFORDABLE HOUSING. THIS IS WHAT WE HEAR AND WE ARE ALWAYS BEEN IN SUPPORT OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING. JUST HAD A GENTLEMAN COMING UP HERE AND TALKING ABOUT HOMELESSNESS AND US HOMING HOMELESS, HOMELESS PEOPLE PROVIDING HOMES FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE LEANING INTO HOMELESSNESS AND ALSO GIVING US GIVING SHELTER TO THOSE WHERE WE CAN. SO I AM NOT, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT AGREEING WITH THE WORD IN TERMS OF US BEING IN COMPETITION WITH EACH OTHER. WE JUST NEED TO DO OUR VERY BEST OVERALL. ALSO, THIS PERSON WORKS FOR A GROUP THAT ACTUALLY THE PEOPLE THAT ARE ON THE BOARD ARE APPOINTED BY THE MAYOR. SO I'M NOT REAL SURE HOW THAT PLAYS OUT, BUT WHATEVER THE BOARD IS REQUESTING FOR HER TO DO, SHE DOES. JUST LIKE OUR CITY MANAGER DOES. SO WITH HER COMING AND SITTING IN THIS SEAT, I THINK THAT WE SHOULD BE IN FULL SUPPORT OF HER. I THINK THAT THE CITY SHOULD BE IN THE COMMUNITY. MEMBERS SHOULD BE VERY COMFORTABLE WITH HER SITTING HERE. SHE KNOWS HOW TO RECUSE AND SHE DOES IF SHE NEEDS TO. SO LET'S JUST BE MINDFUL OF THAT AND LOOK AT THE PRACTICALITY OF WHY WE WANT TO HAVE SOMEBODY LIKE THAT ON THIS BOARD.

COMPETITION WITH WHAT WE HAVE. THE CITY HAS DEVELOPED A PLC. IF ARE WE OBLIGATED IF THEY DON'T TAKE IT, IS IT IS IT OBLIGATED TO COME TO THE CITY'S PLC? THAT HASN'T EVEN REALLY BEEN ESTABLISHED YET. SO AND IF THEY GO TO SOMEWHERE ELSE, ARE WE UPSET BECAUSE IT DIDN'T COME TO US? THE BOTTOM LINE IS PROVIDING HOUSING, HOUSING THAT'S AFFORDABLE. THIS PERSON IS GOING TO HELP US GET THERE. WE'RE GOING TO GET THERE. WE'RE ALL GOING TO GET THERE AS A COMMUNITY. I DON'T WANT THIS TO BE SOMETHING THAT'S DEVASTATING TO US. WE SHOULD APPRECIATE THE

FACT THAT SHE IS SEASONED IN THIS AREA. THANK YOU. >> MAYOR PRO TEM.

[03:15:01]

>> DO WE HAVE SOMEBODY WHO CAN ANSWER QUESTIONS ABOUT PROCEDURES OF RECUSAL FOR

PLANNING AND ZONING? >> YES, I DON'T KNOW. >> OKAY, I'LL ASK MACK. SO IS THERE A PROCESS WHEN AN INDIVIDUAL AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO EXPLAIN WHAT THE PROCESS IS, BUT IS THERE A PROCESS FOR INDIVIDUALS THAT HAVE A CONFLICT OF INTEREST ON PLANNING AND

ZONING? >> YES. >> OKAY. HAS MISS MCDADE BEEN FOLLOWING THAT PROCESS? YOU PROBABLY DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT.

>> I'M NOT AS FAMILIAR WITH THAT, BUT MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT SHE HAS RECUSED FROM AT

LEAST ONE ITEM. >> I THINK I'VE ACTUALLY SEEN HER LEAVE THE ROOM BEFORE. AND THEN IS THERE A IS THERE A PROCESS? IF MISS MCDADE WERE TO FAIL TO FOLLOW THIS PROCESS? RECUSAL IS THERE SOMETHING THAT CAN BE DONE IF SOMEBODY FINDS THAT, OH, SHE HAD A CONFLICT THERE, SHE DID NOT RECUSE HERSELF. IS THERE A PROCESS THAT SOMEBODY COULD GO THROUGH TO

SORT OF CALL THAT OUT OR. >> SURE, ANY NUMBER OF PROCESSES. BUT I THINK THE MOST OBVIOUS WOULD BE AN ETHICS COMPLAINT WITH OUR BOARD OF ETHICS.

>> SO THERE'S SORT OF SOME GUARDRAILS IN PLACE. >> OKAY.

>> ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. >> OKAY. THAT'S EVERYTHING. REPRESENTATIVE FROM DISTRICT

SIX. >> COUNCILMEMBER JESTER AND I ALSO HAVE ANOTHER KIND OF PROCEDURAL QUESTION. IF SOMEONE COULD ANSWER MY QUESTION IS AS MULTIFAMILY DEVELOPMENTS COME BEFORE P AND Z, AS FAR AS WHEN THE HOUSING AUTHORITY CONTRACTS WITH THEM TO OPERATE THEM, DOES THIS HAPPEN BEFORE OR AFTER IT'S BUILT, OR IS IT UP IN THE AIR? MY QUESTION BEING ARE THERE MULTIFAMILY COMING BEFORE THIS PARTICULAR MEMBER OF P AND Z THAT THEN A FEW DAYS LATER COULD THEN BE HIRING HER ENTITY THAT SHE MANAGES? I'M TRYING TO SEE WHAT KIND OF BENEFITS SOMEONE COMING BEFORE HER REPRESENTS. AND WILL SHE KNOW OF A CONFLICT AHEAD OF TIME, OR ARE ALL OF THESE JUST POTENTIAL VENDORS? CAN ANYONE SPEAK TO THAT THAT'S HERE? MR. CAN I APPRECIATE YOU COMING FORWARD AND AT LEAST ATTEMPTING TO SHED SOME LIGHT ON WHEN A CONFLICT OF INTEREST MIGHT ARISE, IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT IS HANGING OUT THERE AND UNKNOWN,

OR IS THIS GOING TO BE KNOWN BEFORE A P AND Z VOTE? >> GOOD EVENING, MAYOR AND COUNCIL. JESSE KENT, DIRECTOR OF COMMUNITY SERVICES. I'M GOING TO ATTEMPT TO FILL IN JUST A LITTLE BIT SO THERE'S NOT AS MUCH WITH SCOTT OUT. MAYBE HE MIGHT COME BACK IN, BUT I THINK IT REALLY JUST DEPENDS ON THE PROJECT, ON THE TIMING. YOU KNOW, NOT EVERY MULTIFAMILY DEVELOPMENT THE HOUSING AUTHORITY IS GOING TO TAKE ON NECESSARILY NEEDS TO GO TO P AND Z, EXCUSE ME, NEEDS TO GO TO P AND Z. AS FAR AS LIKE WHAT THE TIMING OF THE DEALS ARE, I DON'T KNOW IF REPRESENTATIVE FROM THE HOUSING AUTHORITY WANTS TO SPEAK ON THAT, ON WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE, BUT I'M NOT ENTIRELY CERTAIN WHERE IN THE PROCESS DEALS HAVE TO BE CEMENTED VERSUS WHEN THEY HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE LAND AMENDING PROCESS. IF THAT'S HELPFUL.

>> BUT THANK YOU, I APPRECIATE YOU. >> OKAY. ANYONE ELSE? THE ANSWER IS IT'S AFTER THE FACT. WELL WE HAVE A MOTION IN A SECOND. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION SEEING NONE I'LL SAY THIS. THE ANSWER IS YES. IT'S ABSOLUTELY AFTER THE FACT EVIDENCED BY AND I CAN'T GET I CAN'T GET THE APPRAISAL WEBSITE TO LOAD FAST ENOUGH. BUT EXAMPLE IS SQUARE NINE. SQUARE NINE WAS IS BUILT, IT WAS HELD, IT WAS ON THE TAX ROLLS, AND THEN IT WAS REMOVED FROM THE TAX ROLLS BECAUSE IT WAS PURCHASED BY THE HOUSING AUTHORITY. AND SO YOU'LL HAVE BUILDINGS THAT ARE BUILT THAT ARE THEN TAKEN OVER. SO YOU COULD HAVE SOMEONE VOTING ON SOMETHING THAT THEN ULTIMATELY WILL BE TARGETED AND PURCHASED POTENTIALLY AGAIN, TO MAYOR PRO TEM POINT, CERTAINLY YOU CAN FILE AN ETHICS COMPLAINT, BUT IF YOU'VE SEEN THAT PROCESS COME ON UP, SCOTT.

IF YOU'VE SEEN THAT PROCESS, IT'S NOT GOOD AND IT'S PRETTY DIVISIVE. AND THE CONFLICT THAT I'M SPEAKING OF IS EXACTLY I'LL TAKE THE POINT THAT SOMEONE CAME UP AND TALKED ABOUT HOMELESSNESS, NOTED. SOMEONE ALSO CAME UP AND SAID, WE DON'T HAVE AS MUCH MONEY TO GIVE, AND WE HAVE BUDGET CONSTRAINTS. THAT'S NOTED TO BUDGET IS TAXES. TAXES ARE 3 MILLION PLUS DOLLARS OFF THE TAX ROLLS. THAT COULD GO IN TO THAT'S THE CONFLICT. IT'S A BALANCING ACT. AND I UNDERSTAND IT TO BE DELICATE, BUT I'M JUST VOTING MY CONSCIENCE. SO ARE YOU PREPARED

TO ANSWER COUNCILMEMBER JESTER'S QUESTION? >> I'M SORRY. I DON'T KNOW THAT

I SHOULD GET TO THE QUESTION. >> I DON'T WANT TO SPEAK. >> FOR HER. MY APOLOGIES.

[03:20:02]

>> NO, NO. AND THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING BACK IN THE ROOM. MY QUESTION IS, WHAT I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT IS, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T WANT EVEN THE APPEARANCE OF INEQUITY WHEN IT COMES TO PEOPLE'S ABILITY, ESPECIALLY ON SOMETHING AS IMPORTANT AS PLANNING AND ZONING. THAT REPRESENTS A LOT OF STRONG FEELINGS AS WELL AS MONEY THAT'S INVOLVED AND DEDICATED. SO MY QUESTION WAS, AS MULTIFAMILY DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS COME BEFORE COUNCIL, I WAS I DIDN'T KNOW IF WHEN THE HOUSING AUTHORITY, IF THAT AGREEMENT IS SOMETHING THAT'S DONE AHEAD OF TIME AND SO THIS PERSON WOULD KNOW TO RECUSE OR ARE THEY BUILT AND THEN ENTER INTO AGREEMENTS WITH SOMEONE LIKE A GROUP LIKE DENTON HOUSING AUTHORITY, SO THAT EVERYONE COMING BEFORE THIS PERSON IS A POTENTIAL CLIENT, I GUESS, IS WHERE I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT IN THE GRAY AREA WHERE THE ETHICS ARE. SO PART OF THE QUESTION WAS WHEN? WHEN IS THAT DECISION MADE? WHEN SOME KIND OF NONPROFIT CORPORATION LIKE THE DENTON HOUSING AUTHORITY ENTERS INTO THAT

TRANSACTION? >> I THINK THAT CAN VARY. I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S A DEFINED POINT. I THINK AN INDIVIDUAL COULD GET ENTITLEMENTS, SELL THOSE ENTITLEMENTS. SOMEONE COULD SECURE THE ENTITLEMENTS AS THE AGENCY THAT IS WORKING THROUGH IT. SO WHETHER IT'S BEFORE P AND Z ON A, YOU KNOW, AN SP OR A PD OR SOME OTHER PLAN, BUT I DON'T

KNOW THAT THERE'S A DEFINED PATH THAT ONE WOULD FIND THAT. >> OKAY. THANK YOU. IT'S JUST IT'S A IT'S A DIFFICULT DECISION KNOWING THIS PERSON AND HOW MUCH I THINK OF THEM AND HOW MUCH KNOWLEDGE THEY HAVE. HOWEVER, ALSO SEEING THE NUMBER OF CLIENTS COMING FORWARD THAT, YOU KNOW, EVERYONE COULD BE A POTENTIAL CLIENT IS ALSO IT'S DIFFICULT. SO THANK YOU FOR YOUR

INPUT AS WE TRY TO MAKE THIS A TOUGH DECISION ON WHAT'S IN THE. >> THANK YOU. ABSOLUTELY. THANK

YOU. >> OKAY, ■MOTION. AND A SECOND S THIS TO SPEAK AGAIN OR NO. IS

THIS THERE BEFORE. >> YES. I WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK AGAIN IF I'M.

>> ELECTED REPRESENTATIVE FROM DISTRICT ONE. >> NOW WE ALSO HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT THIS INDIVIDUAL IS A CITIZEN OF THIS COMMUNITY. CITIZEN. THIS PERSON LIVES HERE.

AND WE'RE ALWAYS ASKING FOR CITIZENS TO PLEASE BE OF SOME ASSISTANCE TO US AS A COMMUNITY BY APPLYING FOR BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS. AND A LOT OF THESE BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS ARE ALWAYS ASKING PEOPLE TO APPLY IN YOUR INTEREST AND YOUR FIELD OF KNOWLEDGE, LIKE OUR AIRPORT BOARD, OUR HISTORICAL COMMISSIONS BOARD, AND WE GO OUT OF OUR WAY TO LOOK FOR PEOPLE LIKE THAT. THEY DON'T ALWAYS JUST POP UP. WE HAVE TO GO IN AND TALK AND LOOK AND LISTEN FOR THE PEOPLE THAT ARE AVAILABLE. AND I DON'T WANT ANY CITIZEN IN THIS COMMUNITY TO THINK THAT THEY DON'T HAVE A RIGHT TO SIT ON A BOARD OR COMMISSION, ESPECIALLY ONE THAT IS BASED ON THEIR KNOWLEDGE. WE DEFINITELY WANT TO WORK OFF THAT KNOWLEDGE. I WAS ON THE. THAT'S A DEVELOPMENT THAT IS THAT DIDN'T YOU KNOW WHAT? I CAN'T THINK OF IT. BUT YOU KNOW, THE PEOPLE THAT ARE SITTING ON THERE ARE ARE, YOU KNOW, FAMILIAR WITH THOSE TYPE OF THINGS. SO LET'S LET'S JUST BE MINDFUL OF THAT. YOU ALL AS WE'RE VOTING ON THAT, THAT WE SAID WE WERE GOING TO BE COMMITTED TO GETTING OUR CITIZENS TO BE ON THE COMMISSION. NOW, I DON'T KNOW HOW OFTEN, YOU KNOW, DH, YOU KNOW, THESE DA IS GOING TO COME BEFORE AND HAVE COMPETITION WITH THE CITY. IT'S PROBABLY NOT VERY OFTEN, BUT AGAIN, I'M SURE THAT THIS PROFESSIONAL WILL KNOW THAT, YOU KNOW, WHEN IT'S TIME TO RECUSE, THEY WILL DO. SO. I MEAN, I JUST I JUST CAN'T IMAGINE ONE FACING AN ETHICS COMPLAINT OR CHARGE OR WHAT HAVE YOU, YOU KNOW, TO DO THAT. WHY WOULD SHE DO THAT? SO LET'S LET'S JUST THINK ABOUT THAT AS WELL. THANK YOU.

>> OKAY. ANYONE ELSE? OKAY. WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. LET'S VOTE ON THE SCREEN. THAT

[A. Hold a public hearing and consider adoption of an ordinance of the City of Denton, Texas, regarding a change in the zoning district and use classification from Residential 2 (R-2) District to a Mixed-Use Neighborhood (MN) District on approximately 1.09 acres of land generally located on the north side of West University Drive between Willow Lane and Cottonwood Lane in the City of Denton, Denton County, Texas; adopting an amendment to the City’s official zoning map; providing for a penalty in the maximum amount of $2,000.00 for violations thereof; providing a severability clause and an effective date. The Planning and Zoning Commission voted 6-0 to recommend approval of the request. Motion for approval by Commissioner Pruett and second by Commissioner McDuff. (Z25-0007b, Kalyans, Julie Wyatt)]

[03:25:06]

DENTON. >> GOOD EVENING, JULIE WYATT AND I PRESENTING Z 25 SEVEN TO YOU.

SO THE REQUEST BEFORE YOU IS TO REZONE ABOUT ONE ACRE FROM R2 TO M DISTRICT. THE PURPOSE IS TO REESTABLISH A COMMERCIAL USE THAT HAS OPERATED AT THAT LOCATION SINCE THE EARLY 1970S, BUT CEASED OPERATIONS IN IN 2023. AS I MENTIONED, THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS ZONED R2. R2 IS ONE OF OUR LOW DENSITY SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICTS, AND THEY ARE PROPOSING MID DISTRICT. AND THAT IS ONE OF OUR MIXED USE DISTRICTS. YOU CAN SEE ON THE SCREEN THE PROPERTY IS LOCATED ON THE NORTH SIDE OF WEST UNIVERSITY, BETWEEN WILLOW LANE AND COTTONWOOD LANE. AND ALSO ON YOUR SCREEN IS A PICTURE OF THAT COMMERCIAL BUILDING. THIS PROPERTY HAS A LONG HISTORY. I WON'T READ IT, BUT I'M GOING TO HIT SOME HIGHLIGHTS. AS I MENTIONED, THIS COMMERCIAL USE HAS BEEN AT THIS LOCATION SINCE THE EARLY 1970S. ACTUALLY, PRIOR TO ANNEXATION INTO THE CITY, IT WAS ANNEXED INTO THE CITY IN 74 AND THEN SUBSEQUENTLY REZONED TO ALLOW THAT COMMERCIAL USE TO CONTINUE IN A CONFORMING WAY. THE PROPERTY ALSO GOT A COUPLE OF COS FOR RESTAURANT, RETAIL AND BAR USES IN THE 1990S. IN 2002, THE CITY HAD A CITYWIDE REZONING AND THE PROPERTY WAS REZONED FROM GENERAL RETAIL TO R TO NR2 AND THAT IS ONE OF OUR SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS. THE 2002 DENTON DEVELOPMENT CODE HAD A DIFFERENT PROVISION IN IT. IT WAS CALLED A SPECIAL EXCEPTION. AND THAT SPECIAL SPECIAL EXCEPTION ESSENTIALLY MEANT THAT NOTHING REALLY BECAME NON-CONFORMING, THAT ANY EXISTING LEGALLY ESTABLISHED USE COULD CONTINUE IN PERPETUITY AND COULD EVEN REBUILD IF SOMETHING HAPPENED TO IT OR EXPAND ON THE LOT. IN 2019, THAT ZONING TRANSITIONED TO R2, AND THAT SPECIAL EXCEPTION WAS REMOVED FROM THE DENTON DEVELOPMENT CODE. SO THE USE WAS NON-CONFORMING. NOW, INSTEAD OF HAVING THAT SPECIAL EXCEPTION PROTECTION, IT IS IT WAS NOW A NONCONFORMING USE. IN 2023, THE RETAIL AND RESTAURANT USE IS DISCONTINUED AND THE PROPERTY WAS SOLD. AND SO THAT THAT NONCONFORMING USE CEASED OPERATIONS AND CANNOT BE REESTABLISHED UNDER THE CURRENT ZONING. SO STAFF ANALYZED THE REQUEST UNDER THE CRITERIA FOR APPROVAL AND SUBCHAPTER TWO OF THE DENTON DEVELOPMENT CODE, AND HAS DETERMINED IT IS IT DOES MEET THE CRITERIA FOR APPROVAL.

I'LL TALK ABOUT A COUPLE OF THINGS RELATED TO THAT. SO FIRST OF ALL, CONSISTENCY WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, THE FUTURE LAND USE DESIGNATION FOR THE PROPERTY IS MODERATE RESIDENTIAL, BUT THIS CATEGORY ALSO INCLUDES LAND USES THAT SUPPORT RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS. OFTEN THAT SMALL SCALE COMMERCIAL THAT THAT PROVIDES THAT NECESSARY SHOPPING AND DAY TO DAY SERVICES FOR NEIGHBORHOODS. IT ALSO MODERATE RESIDENTIAL. IT TALKS ABOUT PROVIDING TRANSITION AREAS BETWEEN HIGH TRAFFIC AND COMMERCIAL AREAS AND RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS. SO IT ALLOWS THAT THAT BUFFER BETWEEN NEIGHBORHOODS AND STREETS LIKE WEST UNIVERSITY. THE PROPERTY IS ALSO ON OUR PREFERRED LAND PRESERVATION PLAN BECAUSE THERE'S FLOODPLAIN THAT RUNS ALONG THE CENTER SPINE OF THIS NEIGHBORHOOD. HOWEVER, DUE TO EXISTING DEVELOPMENT, IT'S UNLIKELY THAT THIS AREA CAN CONTRIBUTE TO A CONNECTED WILDLIFE CORRIDOR. IT'S FULLY DEVELOPED. HOWEVER, ANY EXPANSIONS OR REDEVELOPMENT OF THE SITE WOULD HAVE TO COMPLY WITH OUR ESA REGULATIONS, AND WE ALSO LOOKED AT THE IMPACTS THAT THE REZONING WOULD COULD POTENTIALLY CREATE FOR THAT RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD TO THE NORTH. MIN DISTRICT IS ONE OF THOSE DISTRICTS THAT WE OFTEN FIND NEXT TO NEXT TO NEIGHBORHOODS. IT LIMITS AUTO ORIENTED USES. SO THINGS LIKE DRIVE THROUGH RESTAURANTS OR AUTOMOTIVE FUEL SALES, THOSE NEED SPECIFIC USE PERMITS. THAT WAY WE CAN LOOK AT THE COMPATIBILITY OF THOSE USES ADJACENT TO RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS. ALSO, BUFFERS AND TREE CANOPY PROVIDE THOSE PROTECTIONS FOR NEIGHBORHOODS. THE PROPERTY SIZE, IT'S ONLY ONE ACRE. AND THAT FLOODPLAIN REALLY LIMIT THE POTENTIAL OF THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE PROPERTY. AND

[03:30:06]

APPLICANT IS HERE AND DOES HAVE A SHORT PRESENTATION, I BELIEVE. >> OKAY. THANK YOU. QUESTIONS

FOR STAFF. MAYOR PRO TEM. >> THANK YOU JULIE I SO WHEN THE WHEN WE DID THE 2019 REZONING I KNOW THERE WERE PROVISIONS IN THERE TO KEEP AT LEAST RESIDENTIAL SINGLE FAMILY HOMES CONFORMING IF LET'S SAY THEY WERE IN A COMMERCIAL ZONING OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. WAS THAT DID WE NOT DO THAT IN REVERSE, OR DID THIS PARCEL JUST END UP A LITTLE DIFFERENT SOMEHOW?

>> SO YOU ARE CORRECT THAT THE 2019 DENTON DEVELOPMENT CODE ESSENTIALLY SAID NO SINGLE FAMILY USES WOULD BE NON-CONFORMING BY THE ADOPTION OF THE CODE. SO FOR INSTANCE, IF IT WAS THE INVERSE AND THERE WAS A SINGLE FAMILY HOME, SAY IN LEE LIGHT INDUSTRIAL DISTRICT, THAT HOME WOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED NON-CONFORMING AND COULD CONTINUE ENJOYING THOSE CONFORMING RIGHTS. THE INVERSE DOESN'T APPLY. SO IN THIS INSTANCE, BECAUSE THE ZONING IS A IS A RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICT AND IT'S A COMMERCIAL USE IF, IF THAT IF THAT USE CEASES THEN THEN THE NONCONFORMING RIGHTS CEASE AND IT WOULD HAVE TO CONFORM TO THE ZONING, WHICH IS WHY THEY'RE COMING IN TO, TO REZONE TO A COMMERCIAL DISTRICT.

>> OKAY. I DID WATCH THAT PLANNING AND ZONING MEETING, AND I REMEMBER SOME OF THE RESIDENTS TALKING ABOUT, I THINK THE PARKING LOT IS USED AS A SCHOOL BUS PICKUP, AND I THINK MAYBE THE DEVELOPER WAS GOING TO OR THE APPLICANT WAS GOING TO TALK TO THEM, LIKE, DO YOU KNOW IF

ANYTHING WAS ARRANGED OR FIGURED OUT? WITH THAT. >> THE APPLICANT, I THINK WILL BE ABLE TO SPEAK TO THAT. I ALSO TALKED TO THE KRUM ISD TRANSPORTATION DEPARTMENT AND PUT THEM IN CONTACT WITH THE PROPERTY OWNER. IT'S A CHALLENGING SITUATION. AND I KNOW EVERYBODY WANTS TO FIND A RESOLUTION, A SAFE, A SAFE PLACE FOR KIDS TO GET ON THE BUS AND FOR KRUM ISD TO BE ABLE TO PICK UP KIDS AND HAVE AN APPROPRIATE TURNAROUND. IT'S A CHALLENGING PROBLEM. AND I DON'T I DON'T KNOW OF A SOLUTION AT THIS POINT.

>> BUT BUT BASED ON IT BEING PARTIALLY IN A FLOODPLAIN, ONLY PART OF IT COULD BE LIKE IF THEY WANT TO EXPAND THE BUILDING, THEY CAN ONLY DO SO MUCH, BUT PART OF IT'S NOT GOING TO BE

DEVELOPED. IT MIGHT BE PARKING LOT AT MOST. >> YOU ARE CORRECT IT IT WILL BE CHALLENGING TO EVER REDEVELOP THIS PROPERTY BECAUSE OF THAT SUBSTANTIAL FLOODPLAIN ON THE ON

THE SITE. >> ALL RIGHT. THANKS, JULIE. YOU BET.

>> REPRESENTATIVE FROM DISTRICT TWO. >> THANK YOU. JULIE, YOU PUT IN THE I THINK IN YOUR PRESENTATION IT SLID PAST ME. HOW LONG HAS THIS BEEN A COMMERCIAL USE?

>> IT WAS ESTABLISHED PRIOR TO 1974. YES, SIR. >> SO I WAS FIVE. OKAY. THE OTHER THE OTHER QUESTION I HAVE IS. MAYOR PRO TEM ALLUDED TO THE FACT THAT IT'S IN A FLOODPLAIN AND THERE WILL BE LIMITED DEVELOPMENT POTENTIAL TO OUR KNOWLEDGE, HAS THIS PROPERTY FLOODED IN THE FLOODPLAIN SINCE. AND IT GOES TO THE QUESTION OF YES, IT'S AN. UNFORTUNATE DISTURBED ISA, BUT IT WAS DISTURBED IN 1974. RIGHT. SO. DO WE HAVE ANY HISTORY OF, OF THIS

[03:35:05]

>> SO WE HAD QUITE A FEW CONVERSATIONS WITH THE SUBJECT MATTER EXPERTS ON THIS. AND I AM NO, BY NO MEANS AN EXPERT ON FLOODPLAIN, BUT THE INFORMATION I WAS PROVIDED IS THAT STAFF IS NOT AWARE OF ANY RECENT OR HISTORICAL FLOODING CLAIMS IN THE AREA. HOWEVER, THEY WOULD ANTICIPATE THAT FLOODING ISSUES ARE LIKELY GIVEN GIVEN THE DRAINAGE CHANNEL THAT RUNS THROUGH THE CENTER OF THE PROPERTY. SO WHILE WE'RE NOT AWARE OF ANY IT IT THERE IS A

FLOODPLAIN THERE. >> SO ALL RIGHT I APPRECIATE THAT. THANK YOU.

>> SURE. >> OKAY. SEEING NO QUESTIONS WE HAVE ONE CARD. THAT'S THE

APPLICANT. YOU HAVE TEN MINUTES AMY BESSETTE. >> GOOD EVENING. MAYOR AND COUNCIL MEMBERS. GIVE ME JUST A MOMENT TO PULL UP SLIDES. AMY BESSETTE, 109 NORTH ELM, DENTON, 76201. I WANT TO START BY SHARING THAT FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO HAVE SEEN ME UP HERE BEFORE, MY SLIDE LOOKS DIFFERENT TONIGH, AND I JUST WANT TO SHARE WHY MY LITTLE CONSULTING FIRM, LOCATED ON THE SQUARE, HAS BEEN ACQUIRED BY MCADAMS AND NATIONAL PLANNING AND ENGINEERING FIRM. BUT WE'RE KEEPING OUR OUR OFFICE SPACE ON THE SQUARE NOT GOING ANYWHERE. YOU'LL CONTINUE TO SEE US FREQUENTLY AS YOU DO NOW, BUT I JUST DIDN'T WANT THERE TO BE SOME LINGERING QUESTIONS ■ABOUT WHY THE SLIDES LOOK DIFFERENT FOR THE FIRST TIME IN A NUMBER OF YEARS, SO I DO WANT A COUPLE.

I WANT TO PUT SOME CONTEXT ON THIS ZONING CHANGE FROM MY PERSPECTIVE. SO THIS PROPERTY RIGHT NOW SITS VACANT AND IT SITS PARTIALLY DEMOLISHED. AND IT CANNOT BE REBUILT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES UNDER THE EXISTING ZONING, BECAUSE THE ONLY THING THAT CAN GO THERE IS A SINGLE FAMILY HOME. SO I JUST I WANT TO SHARE THAT CONTEXT. TO START WITH THAT, YOU'RE LOOKING AT A PARTIALLY DEMOLISHED OR OR STARTED A RENOVATION OF A BUILDING THAT SITS VACANT TODAY AND IS IN IS UNSECURED. SO I WANT YOU TO HAVE THAT CONTEXT AS WE MOVE FORWARD. JUST A ADDITIONAL CONTEXT. I WANT TO SHARE HOW I GOT INVOLVED WITH THIS ZONING CHANGE. SO MY CLIENT IS THEIR THEIR FAMILY. THEY BOUGHT THIS PROPERTY IN 2023 WITH THE INTENTION OF RENOVATING IT, MAKING IT PRETTIER. I'LL SHOW YOU A COUPLE PICTURES OF THAT IN A MOMENT. AND REOPENING TO CONTINUE THE USE AS IT WAS SINCE 1974 OR OR PRIOR TO THAT. THEY'RE NOT DEVELOPERS. THEY'RE NOT ZONING EXPERTS. THEY GOT ZONING VERIFICATION LETTER FROM THE CITY BEFORE THEY CLOSED. AND IT SAID, YES, THIS USE CAN CONTINUE, BUT IT'S LEGAL AND NON-CONFORMING. THEY DID NOT REALIZE AT THE TIME THAT THAT MEANT THAT THEY COULDN'T RENOVATE IT WITHOUT HAVING THE LIKELY POTENTIAL OF TRIGGERING AN EXPANSION, THE DEFINITION OF AN EXPANSION. AND THEY UNFORTUNATELY ALSO HIRED A CONTRACTOR WHO DIDN'T FOLLOW PROPER PROCEDURES AND PULL A BUILDING PERMIT. SO WHAT HAPPENED INSTEAD IS THEY STARTED THE REMODEL, AND THE CITY NOTICED THAT THEY DIDN'T HAVE A PERMIT, STOPPED THE WORK, AND BEGAN TO LOOK AT THE OPTIONS. SO MY CLIENT CAME AND MET WITH THE CITY TO TALK ABOUT THE OPTIONS, THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT THEY'RE IN ON THIS ALREADY LEFT THEM WITH VERY FEW DECISIONS. IT WAS TOO LATE AT THAT POINT TO PUT IT BACK THE WAY IT WAS AND REOPEN IT, BECAUSE THE YEAR HAD PASSED AND THE NON-CONFORMING STATUS WAS LOST. AND SO REALLY, THEIR ONLY OPPORTUNITY HERE TO GAIN ANY MONETARY VALUE FROM THE INVESTMENT THAT THEY'VE MADE IS TO GET THIS REMODELED AND OPEN, AND IT'S NOT GOING TO SELL AS AN R-2 PROPERTY FOR SOMEBODY TO BUILD A SINGLE FAMILY HOME, YOU KNOW, FACING HIGHWAY 380. SO I JUST WANT TO SHARE THAT CONTEXT, BECAUSE I TOOK THIS CASE BECAUSE OF MY CONCERN FOR THEIR THEIR INVESTMENT AND THE FACT THAT I TRULY BELIEVE THEY HAVE NO OTHER OPTIONS. I'M NOT GOING TO REHASH THE ZONING THAT THAT, THAT JULIE ALREADY WENT THROUGH, BECAUSE WHAT I DO WANT TO TALK ABOUT REALLY IS THE NEIGHBORS. I KNOW THAT WHILE PLANNING AND ZONING RECOMMENDED APPROVAL, AND WE HELD NEIGHBORHOOD MEETINGS, THE CONCERNS WE HEARD FOR THE NEIGHBORS HERE ARE A COUPLE OF JUST IMAGES OF WHAT THEY WERE TRYING TO DO WHEN ALL OF THIS STOPPED. SO THEY REALLY WANTED TO DO SOMETHING NICE. BUT WHAT WE HEARD FROM THE FROM THE NEIGHBORS WAS CONCERNS ABOUT THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD AS A WHOLE. RIGHT? SO THEY ARE CONCERNED BECAUSE THEIR KIDS ARE ARE BEING PICKED UP AT A BUS STOP BEHIND AN ABANDONED LIQUOR STORE. YOU KNOW, THAT'S A BIG CONCERN.

[03:40:04]

THEY'RE PRIVATELY OWNED, AND IT'S GOING TO REQUIRE FUNDING TO BRING THEM UP TO STANDARDS REGARDING THE FEASIBILITY OF GETTING THIS NEIGHBORHOOD ON CITY WATER. MCADAMS, WHICH I'M NOW PART OF, OUR ENGINEERS ARE RESEARCHING THE FEASIBILITY AND COST TO GET THEM CONNECTED, LOOKING AT TIMING, CAPACITY AND FUNDING OPTIONS. AND WE'VE DISCUSSED WITH PUBLIC WORKS EXTENSIVELY WHAT WHAT THAT MIGHT LOOK LIKE. THERE'S CONCERNS THAT THERE'S JUST NOT CAPACITY OUT THERE TODAY. BUT AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE WITH SOME GRANT FUNDS, THEY COULD RECEIVE IMPROVEMENTS TO BOTH THE STREET AND THEIR WATER SUPPLY. THAT IS ALL I HAVE AND I'M HAPPY TO

ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. THANK YOU. >> ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT. SEEING NONE.

REPRESENTATIVE FROM DISTRICT FOUR. >> THANK YOU. WHERE ARE THE KIDS

BEING PICKED UP NOW? BUS KIDS. >> THEY'RE BEING PICKED UP ON ON THIS AERIAL IN THE YELLOW CIRCLE

WHICH IS RIGHT BEHIND THE STORE. THAT'S VACANT TODAY. >> OKAY. THANK YOU.

>> OKAY. AND THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING. IF YOU CARE TO SPEAK, YOU CAN FILL OUT A CARD AFTERWARDS. SEEING NO SETTLEMENTS, I'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND

REPRESENTATIVE DISTRICT FIVE. >> WHAT DOES GRAVEL LOOK LIKE? >> I HAVEN'T GOTTEN THAT FAR IN EXPLORING IT. SOMETHING THAT'S PERVIOUS SO THAT IT DOESN'T AFFECT THE FLOODPLAIN AND

DRAINAGE, BUT THAT CAN HOLD THE WEIGHT OF A BUS. >> OKAY. THANKS.

>> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? SEEING NONE. REPRESENTATIVE FROM DISTRICT SIX.

>> FIRST I JUST WANT TO SAY THANK YOU. WHAT? YOU GO ABOVE AND BEYOND TO CARE ABOUT THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY, NOT JUST THAT PARCEL AND YOUR CLIENTS. A SINCERE THANK YOU ON BEHALF OF THE COMMUNITY. AND I MOVE APPROVAL FOR ALL OF THE REASONS STATED. THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU MAYOR PRO TEM. AND I ALSO RECOGNIZE THE APPLICANT. I MEAN THE WHAT THIS HAS BEEN USED FOR SO LONG. IT MAKES SENSE TO ALLOW IT TO CONTINUE. AND I APPRECIATE YOU TALKING TO THE NEIGHBORS AND TRYING TO WORK WITH THEM TO FIND SOME SOLUTIONS FOR SOME OF THEIR PROBLEMS, WHICH, YOU KNOW, DON'T SEEM RELATED TO THIS, BUT THEY'RE STILL VERY REAL PROBLEMS THAT WE DO NEED TO BE LOOKING INTO. SO I ALSO APPRECIATE YOU SHARING THAT. AND I WOULD LIKE TO

SECOND, OKAY. >> WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND ANY OTHER DISCUSSION. I'LL JUST SAY I KNOW THE SELLER AND KNOW ABOUT THE LAST GO ROUND. AND SO I APPRECIATE THIS SOLUTION COMING FORWARD. AND I WILL SAY CONGRATULATIONS. I THINK ON THE ON THE JUST THINK IT'S GREAT FOR THE CITY. RIGHT. THAT THAT VISIBILITY. SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR AND CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR HARD WORK THAT LEADS TO THAT JOINING A BIGGER TEAM. SO WITH THAT WE HAVE A MOTION. AND

[03:45:03]

[B. Hold a public hearing and consider adoption of an ordinance of the City of Denton, Texas, approving a Specific Use Permit to allow for a Boarding House use on approximately 0.403 acres of land, generally located at the southwest corner of the intersection of West Oak Street and Fry Street in the City of Denton, Denton County, Texas; adopting an amendment to the City’s official zoning map; providing for a penalty in the maximum amount of $2,000.00 for violations thereof; providing for severability and an effective date. The Planning and Zoning Commission voted [4-0] to recommend approval of the request. Motion for approval by Commissioner Riggs and second by Commissioner McDuff. (S25-0004a, 1305 Oak Boarding House, Matt Bodine)]

AND FRYE STREET AND CITY OF DENTON. >> ALL RIGHT.

>> GOOD EVENING, CITY COUNCIL. MATT BODINE, ASSISTANT PLANNER, HERE TO PRESENT THE 1305 OAK BOARDING HOUSE CASE. SO THIS IS A REQUEST FOR A SPECIFIC USE PERMIT TO ALLOW FOR THE BOARDING HOUSE USE ON AN APPROXIMATELY 0.4 ACRE LOT LOCATED AT THE CORNER OF FRYE AND OAK STREET HERE IN THE CITY OF DENTON. THIS LOT IS FULLY DEVELOPED WITH BUILDING, PARKING, LANDSCAPING, TIES TO SEWER AND WATER. EXISTING. THE CURRENT ZONING IS MIXED USE NEIGHBORHOOD WITHIN THE OVERLAY AND IS SURROUNDED BY COMMERCIAL USES AS WELL AS MULTI-FAMILY DWELLINGS. THIS REQUEST WAS REVIEWED AGAINST OUR CRITERIA FOR APPROVAL FOR SPECIFIC USE, PERMIT AND GENERAL APPLICATIONS. REGARDING THE BOARDING HOUSE USE, SO THIS IS DEFINED AS NON TRANSIENT LODGING FOR MORE THAN FOUR BUT FEWER THAN 20 PERSONS AND MAY PROVIDE MEALS. PROVIDE COOKING IS DONE IN A CENTRAL KITCHEN IN THE ZONING. A BOARDING HOUSE DOES REQUIRE A SPECIFIC USE PERMIT.

HENCE THE APPLICANT HERE TODAY AND THIS ONE IS COMING WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS. THAT THERE BE NO MORE THAN NINE BEDROOMS, NO LESS THAN TEN PARKING SPACES AND NO SUBSTANTIAL CHANGES FROM THE SITE PLAN. THIS IS TO ENSURE CONSISTENCY WITH THE EXISTING SITE AS WELL AS COMPLIANCE WITH OUR DEVELOPMENT CODE. IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT THIS TIME THE APPLICANT IS NOT PROPOSING REALLY ANY SITE CHANGES, MERELY A CHANGE IN THE USE OF THE PROPERTY. STAFF FOUND THIS TO BE CONSISTENT WITH OUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. THE FUTURE LAND USE DESIGNATION IS NEIGHBORHOOD UNIVERSITY COMPATIBILITY AREA AND WHICH THOSE COMPATIBLE FORMING LAND USES THAT CAN SERVE THE UNIVERSITY AND THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOOD ARE ENCOURAGED. WE ALSO FOUND IT TO ADVANCE THE LAND USE GOAL TO GROW COMPACTLY, AS THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF SOUND AND SUSTAINABLE GROWTH. THE PUBLIC WAS NOTIFIED ACCORDING TO CITY AND STATE LAW, STAFF DID NOT RECEIVE ANY RESPONSES IN OPPOSITION OR SUPPORT. STAFF IS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF THE REQUESTED SCP AS IT COMPLIES WITH THE CRITERIA. ALSO, PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION RECOMMENDED APPROVAL FOUR ZERO AT THE JULY 23RD MEETING HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. APPLICANT

IS ALSO HERE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS AS WELL. >> OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

I'LL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING AND WE HAVE A REPRESENTATIVE FOR DISTRICT FOUR.

>> THANK YOU. ARE THERE ANY BOARDING HOUSES IN DENTON BY THIS DEFINITION? BOARDING HOUSES

IN DENTON CURRENTLY. >> CAN'T SAY FOR SURE. IT IS A FAIRLY, I GUESS, ARCHAIC LAND USE, SO WE DON'T SEE IT VERY OFTEN. IT'S ONE THAT WAS LICENSED A LONG TIME AGO BUT HAS

GONE OUT OF USE. >> SO I'M FAMILIAR WITH THE BAYLEY BOARDING HOUSE. IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE, BUT I CAN'T. I CAN'T THINK OF A BOARDING HOUSE IN DENTON.

>> IF THERE ARE OTHER. THEY'RE FAIRLY RARE, I'D SAY. >> OKAY.

>> IS THERE A KITCHEN ON SITE? CURRENTLY. >> THE APPLICANT COULD BEST.

THERE IS ONE. YES. >> OKAY, OKAY. AND WHAT'S IT BEING USED FOR NOW? TODAY.

>> SO THE CHURCH USES IT FOR EVENTS FOR THEIR THEIR PATRONS. I BELIEVE THE APPLICANT PROBABLY BEST TO ASK THE APPLICANT IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO KNOW MORE BEYOND THAT.

>> OKAY. REPRESENTATIVE FROM DISTRICT SIX. >> I JUST WANTED TO SAY THANK YOU FOR THE PRESENTATION AS WELL AS THE MATERIALS. IT ALREADY WAS PREVIOUSLY USED AS A FRATERNITY HOUSE. AS FAR AS WHAT'S NEXT TO IT, NORMALLY I THINK, YOU KNOW, YOU DO HEAR BOARDING HOUSE AND YOU GET CONCERNED FOR LOTS OF ADDITIONAL TRAFFIC POTENTIALLY, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE THAT ARE ARE NOT GOING TO BE LIVING THERE AND NOT KEEPING THE PROPERTY UP, ETC. WITH THE USES

[03:50:05]

APPRECIATE OUR FELLOW COMMUNITY MEMBERS AND WHAT THEY'RE DOING. >> OKAY WITH THAT, I'LL TAKE A SECOND. FIRST REPRESENTATIVE DISTRICT FIVE. SECOND REPRESENTATIVE FROM DISTRICT

ONE. >> HAS IT BEEN ESTABLISHED SINCE THE HOW LONG A PERSON WOULD STAY IN THIS PARTICULAR BOARDING HOUSE? IS THIS SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO GO IN AND OUT OF? IS THIS WEEKLY, MONTHLY? HOW WOULD SOMETHING LIKE THAT WORK IN THIS

PARTICULAR BOARDING HOUSE? HAVE WE DO WE KNOW THAT. >> SO THE CITY HAS NO REQUIREMENTS ON HOW LONG SOMEONE STAYS AS PART OF THE USE DEFINITION, AS ANY RESTRICTIONS

WOULD REALLY BE UP TO THE OWNER. >> IS THIS KIND OF LIKE ON THE SAME LINES OF A AIRBNB, WHERE IT WOULD HAVE TO BE REGISTERED OR IN A, IN A WAY, IN A PARTICULAR KIND OF WAY?

>> THEY THERE IS NO BOARDING HOUSE PERMIT LIKE THERE IS FOR LIKE A SHORT TERM RENTAL. SO IT IS DIFFERENT IN THAT REGARD. AND THERE'S NO LIMIT ON THE NUMBER IN THE CITY.

>> SO FOR SOMEONE THAT IS TRYING TO COME OUT OF HOMELESSNESS, WOULD THIS WOULD WITH THIS GROUP, YOU KNOW, I GUESS MAYBE I DON'T WANT TO USE THE WORD BANNED, BUT WOULD THIS GROUP BE MORE PERVIOUS? IS THAT A GOOD WORD TO PUT HERE TO WHO CAN STAY HERE? DO THEY HAVE TO MEET? WOULD THEY HAVE TO MEET SOME KIND OF CERTAIN REQUIREMENTS OR SOMETHING?

>> LET ME LET ME DO THIS. LET ME. THERE'S A LOT OF CONFUSION. >> THERE SHOULDN'T BE.

APPARENTLY, I'M CONFUSED. >> ABOUT SOMETHING. IT SHOULDN'T BE HERE. DO YOU HAVE DO YOU HAVE ACCESS TO THE PROJECT NARRATIVE THAT WOULD EXPLAIN ALL THAT IT'S ON. IT'S I IT'S IN THE BACKUP.

IT'S PROJECT NARRATIVE. IT'S ALL RIGHT. EXHIBIT FOUR. DO YOU HAVE THAT BY CHANCE?

>> NOT ON ME AT THE MOMENT. SO. >> ALL RIGHT, WELL, THEN JUST. YEAH, PLEASE. COME ON. YEAH.

COULD YOU, COULD YOU SET I MEAN, FOR THOSE THAT DIDN'T CAN'T SEE IT. LET'S LET'S SAVE SOME TIME.

>> THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH. >> YEAH. IF YOU CAN JUST GIVE THE CLIFFSNOTES VERSION OF IT. I

MEAN, BECAUSE AGAIN, YOU DID THE. IT'S HERE, BUT PLEASE. >> YES. MY NAME IS BRANDON BELL, AND I SERVE AS THE CAMPUS MINISTER FOR THE CHRISTIAN CAMPUS COMMUNITY. AND OUR BUILDING IS OWNED BY SINGING OAKS CHURCH. AND WE OPERATE A CAMPUS MINISTRY FROM OUR BUILDING FOR STUDENTS AT UNT, TEXAS WOMEN'S AND NCTC. BASICALLY, THE IDEA IS TO HAVE A TRAINING RESIDENCY PROGRAM FOR THOSE THAT WANT TO DO WHAT I DO. CAMPUS MINISTERS DON'T HAVE A LOT OF OPTIONS FOR ONGOING EDUCATION IN THAT IN THAT FIELD. AND SO IT'S KIND OF A HANDS ON EXPERIENCE. AND SO WE WOULD LIKE FOR OUR MINISTRY TO KIND OF BE A HUB FOR FUTURE CAMPUS MINISTERS.

SO SOME OF THOSE WILL COME FROM OUR STUDENTS, SOME WILL BE FROM FROM THE OUTSIDE. AND WE WILL BE WORKING IN PARTNERSHIP WITH THE THREE PARTNERS TO PROVIDE TRAINING. AND SO THE IDEA IS THAT THESE ARE PEOPLE THAT WANT TO DO WHAT I DO AS A CAMPUS MINISTER, THEY WOULD COME IN FOR WE'RE LOOKING AT A SINGLE SEMESTER TIME FRAME FOR THEIR RESIDENCY UP TO A YEAR. THERE MAY BE SOME THAT NEED LONGER, BUT WE'RE LOOKING AT IT LIKE A SCHOOL YEAR SEMESTER. AND THAT'S THAT'S THE IDEA. DOES THAT HELP CLARIFY AND PAINT A PICTURE ENOUGH?

>> YEAH, I THINK SO, YES. THIS MAY REPRESENT FROM DISTRICT ONE YOU HAVE THE FLOOR.

>> YES. I CERTAINLY APPRECIATE THE DETAIL. I'M ALWAYS IN AN EDUCATIONAL LEARNING MODE. SO JUST HAVING YOU COME UP HERE AND KIND OF DETAIL FOR THE PUBLIC WHAT THIS IS GOING TO BE ABOUT.

WE DO HAVE THAT INFORMATION AND I DO KNOW THAT INFORMATION. BUT I WANTED TO BRING THAT TO THE

REST OF THE COMMUNITY. SO I DO APPRECIATE YOU COMING THROUGH. >> THANK YOU. ABSOLUTELY. THANK

YOU GUYS. >> THANK YOU. >> GOD BLESS. YES, SIR. THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING. IT'S OPEN. ANYONE CARE TO SPEAK? CAN COME DOWN AND SPEAK. FILL OUT A CARD AFTERWARDS. SEEING NONE, I'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? SEEING? NONE. LET'S VOTE ON THE SCREEN. PASSES SEVEN ZERO. TAKES US TO

[C. Hold a public hearing and consider adoption of an ordinance of the City of Denton, Texas, regarding a change in the zoning district and use classification from Rural Residential (RR) District to Heavy Industrial (HI) District on approximately 21.800 acres of land generally located at the southwest corner of the intersection of Spring Side Road and Corbin Road, in the City of Denton, Denton County, Texas; adopting an amendment to the City’s official zoning map; providing for a penalty in the maximum amount of $2,000.00 for violations thereof; providing a severability clause and an effective date. The Planning and Zoning Commission voted [3-1] to recommend approval of the request. Motion for approval by Commissioner McDuff and second by Commissioner Riggs. (Z25-0004a, Spring Side Road Industrial, Matt Bodine)]

[03:55:04]

>> GOOD EVENING, CITY COUNCIL AGAIN. ASSISTANT PLANNER HERE TO PRESENT THE SPRING SIDE INDUSTRIAL CASE. JUST ONE MOMENT BEFORE WE GET INTO IT, JUST TO MAKE SURE IT'S CLEAR THAT THIS THIS CASE DOES REQUIRE A SUPER MAJORITY VOTE FOR APPROVAL, AS MORE THAN 20% OF RESIDENTS WITHIN 200FT OF THE PROPERTY HAVE INDICATED OPPOSITION. SO JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE WE'RE CLEAR ON THAT. BUT I WILL GET INTO THE PRESENTATION NOW. SO THIS IS A REQUEST TO REZONE APPROXIMATELY 22 ACRES AT THE CORNER OF SPRINGSIDE ROAD AND CORBIN ROAD FROM THE RURAL RESIDENTIAL OR RR ZONING DISTRICT TO THE HEAVY INDUSTRIAL ZONING DISTRICT IS CURRENTLY UNDEVELOPED LAND AND IS ADJACENT TO OTHER HIGH AND ARE ZONED PROPERTY AS WELL AS PROPERTIES IN THE ETJ. IN THIS AREA THERE WERE. THERE HAS BEEN RECENT MOBILITY PLAN AMENDMENTS TO ACCOUNT FOR THE MIX OF TRAFFIC THAT EXISTS AND IS EXPECTED TO BE COMING TO THIS AREA. SO THIS REQUEST WAS REVIEWED AGAINST OUR GENERAL AND ZONING CRITERIA FOR APPROVAL AND THE PROPOSED ZONING DISTRICT. SO APPLICANT IS PROPOSING TO ZONE TO THIS DISTRICT FROM THE RR, WHICH IS A PLACEHOLDER THAT IS IN THAT HAS BEEN HERE SINCE ITS ANNEXATION INTO THE CITY. THIS ZONING DISTRICT IS INTENDED FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF INDUSTRIAL DISTRIBUTION AND MANUFACTURING USES, PARTICULARLY IN THAT AREA BETWEEN I-35 WEST AND THE DENTON ENTERPRISE AIRPORT. TAKING THIS INTO CONSIDERATION AND THE LOCATION OF THIS PROPERTY, STAFF FELT THAT THIS REQUEST IS CONSISTENT WITH THE PURPOSE STATEMENT FOR THE ZONING DISTRICT AS WELL AS THIS PROPOSED ZONING DOES BORDER OTHER H. I ZONED PROPERTIES. THIS REQUEST IS FOUND TO BE CONSISTENT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. THE FUTURE LAND USE DESIGNATION IS INDUSTRIAL COMMERCE. SO IN THIS AREA, THE CITY HAS BEEN DETERMINED THAT WE WANT TO SEE MAINLY LIGHT AND HEAVY INDUSTRIAL USES BETWEEN ONCE AGAIN, I-35 AND AN AIRPORT.

STAFF ALSO FINDS THIS REQUEST TO ADVANCE ECONOMIC GOALS OF THE CITY TO ENSURE ADEQUATE LAND FOR FUTURE GROWTH. ANOTHER CATEGORY OR CONSIDERATION FOR APPROVAL IS A SIGNIFICANT GROWTH OR CHANGE IN THE AREA. THERE'S BEEN QUITE A LOT OF INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT OVER THE LAST DECADE IN THIS PART OF THE CITY. THAT DOES EXTEND UP TO TODAY, AND THIS AREA CONTINUES TO GROW.

ADDITIONALLY, JUST SOUTH OF THIS REQUEST IS THE RANCH AND LANDMARK MASTER PLANNED COMMUNITIES, WHICH ARE UNDER DEVELOPMENT AND INCLUDE ZONING IN THEM THAT WOULD ALLOW FOR A TRANSITION FROM THE INDUSTRIAL TO OTHER, MORE APPROPRIATE ZONING TYPES IN OTHER AREAS OF THE CITY. SO THIS REQUEST WAS NOTIFIED TO THE PUBLIC ACCORDING TO THE STATE AND CITY LAW. STAFF DID RECEIVE FOUR RESPONSES IN OPPOSITION TO THOSE WITHIN CITY LIMITS. THOSE TWO RESPONDED TO RESPONSES REPRESENT APPROXIMATELY 30% OF PROPERTY IN CITY LIMITS WITHIN TWO FEET.

HENCE, THE NEED FOR A SUPERMAJORITY APPROVAL FOR THIS ZONING TO GO INTO EFFECT. STAFF IS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF THE REQUESTED ZONING CHANGE. IN ADDITION, PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION RECOMMENDED APPROVAL THREE ONE AT THE JULY 23RD, 2025 MEETING HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. THE APPLICANT IS ALSO HERE AND HAS A PRESENTATION AS WELL.

>> OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF REPRESENTATIVE DISTRICT TWO.

>> THANK YOU. MATT. DID I KNOW YOU SHOWED THE COMP PLAN AND THE WHOLE AREA IS HIGH. AND I THINK IT'S REALLY CLEAR THAT YOU KNOW, THIS AREA, WHETHER WE'RE IN THE WEST PARK TOURS OR NOT, IS I MEAN, THAT'S THAT'S WHERE IT'S GOING. BUT YOU, YOU SHOWED THE COMP PLAN USES FOR THE WHOLE

[04:00:05]

BACKUP SAID RESIDENTIAL. >> CORRECT. YES. CORRECT. THERE RESTRICTED TO WHAT WAS ON THE

PROPERTY AT THE TIME OF SIGNING THEIR NON EXISTING AGREEMENTS. >> SO THOSE, THOSE NON ANNEXATION AND ETJ PROPERTIES ARE RESIDENTIAL AT THE MOMENT. AND CAN YOU REMIND ME HOW, HOW

WHAT THE LENGTH OF TIME ON THE TERMS ARE. >> THE TERM IS ABOUT 2020 YEARS.

AND IF THEY WANT TO DEVELOP MORE THAN JUST SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL, THEY WOULD HAVE TO

BE ANNEXED INTO THE CITY. >> OKAY, OKAY. AND DID I, DID I READ IN THE BACKUP THAT TWO QUESTIONS ABOUT THE MOBILITY OF SPRING AND CORBIN THAT THAT AND I THINK WE HAD THIS COME UP IN PREVIOUS ITEMS THAT CORBIN WROTE THAT THAT THAT SECTION OF CORBIN ROAD AND SPRING THAT'S GOING TO HAVE TO GET DEVELOPED BECAUSE IT'S BEING REDESIGNATED TO WAS IT DOWN TO COLLECTOR OR UP TO

SECONDARY ARTERIAL WHICH DIRECTION. >> SO. DOES SORRY. IT WAS RECLASSIFIED AS A COLLECTOR ON THE. WAS THAT THE EAST SIDE OF THE PROPERTY FOR CORBIN THAT

HAPPENED I BELIEVE A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO. >> YEAH. AND BUT THAT THAT ROAD IS A KIND OF A DEAD END ABANDONED DIRT ROAD AT THE MOMENT. IS THAT CORRECT?

>> CURRENTLY, THE MOBILITY PLAN DOES CALL FOR IT TO EXTEND TO CONNECT THROUGH. BUT YES OKAY.

>> ALL RIGHT. NO, THAT'S THAT'S MY QUESTIONS. THANK YOU. >> REPRESENTATIVE FROM DISTRICT

FOUR. >> THANK YOU. HEAVY INDUSTRIAL. WHAT ARE THEY PROPOSING PUTTING

IN THERE. >> INDUSTRIAL USES. ANYTHING MORE SPECIFIC I WOULD TURN TO

THE APPLICANT TO ASK OKAY. >> I'M ASKING OKAY. >> SO IT IS ONLY A ZONING CASE.

AND SO THAT'S THE ANSWER MAY BE NOTHING PLANNED YET, BUT LET'S SEE WHO THE APPLICANT IS. SO I'M JUST GIVING YOU FAIR WARNING THAT THAT AND THE APPLICANT, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN COME DOWN AND SPEAK AND EVERYTHING YOU SAY CAN AND WILL BE HELD AGAINST YOU. WHO IS THE APPLICANT? I DON'T SEE ONE HERE. IT SAYS APPLICANT. OH, MAN. MR. GREG JOHNSON, IF YOU CAN COME DOWN AND STATE YOUR

NAME. >> YES. BEFORE WE COME TO JUNE AND CLARIFY, I GUESS AT THE TIME OF THIS REZONING, THERE IS A MULTITUDE OF INDUSTRIAL LIGHT AND HEAVY THAT THEY'RE ALLOWED

TO DO. DON'T NECESSARILY NEED TO SPECIFY. >> I THOUGHT IT WAS A VERY SIMPLE QUESTION. I JUST WANT TO KNOW WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO, WHAT THEY PROPOSE PUTTING IN THERE.

>> MR. JOHNSON, ANSWER THE SIMPLE QUESTION. COME ON UP. >> I'LL COVER THAT IN.

>> MY PRESENTATION. >> I DON'T HAVE A CARD. DO YOU HAVE A CARD? YOU KNOW THE RULES.

DID YOU FILL. >> OUT. >> ONE APPLICANT? I HAVE TO HAVE

A CARD. >> YES. COME ON, MAN. >> IT'S BEEN A WHILE.

>> SECURITY. SO, APPLICANT. SO JUST. YEAH. NO WORRIES. YOU HAVE TEN MINUTES OR IS THERE A COUPLE

OF YOU? NO, NO. GO RIGHT AHEAD. >> JUST ME I JUST OKAY, I JUST I NEED TO PULL UP MY PRESENTATION.

>> GOT IT. OKAY. WELL WE'LL WAIT. >> THANK YOU. MATT.

>> THERE WE GO. >> CAN I JUST. DOWN HERE. OVER HERE.

>> YOU'VE COME A LONG WAY. YOU USED TO JUST USE POST-IT NOTES. >> I KNOW I HAD TO GET SOMEBODY TO DO THIS FOR ME. THANK YOU. MAYOR, COUNCIL, AS ALWAYS, THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE. APPRECIATE YOU VERY MUCH. MY NAME IS GREG JOHNSON. ADDRESSES 3190 TEASLEY HERE IN DENTON, TEXAS. SO ABOUT THIS PROPERTY. SOMETIMES HISTORY IS BENEFICIAL WHEN MAKING DECISIONS. SO IN 2010, THE CITY LEADERSHIP INITIATED AN INITIATIVE FOR A DESIGNATED INDUSTRIAL AREA AND THE CREATION OF A SHOVEL READY SITES TO ATTRACT JOBS, AD VALOREM TAX. SO AT THE TIME, WE WERE MISSING OUT ON LARGE EMPLOYERS, LARGE AD VALOREM TAXPAYERS, BECAUSE WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY SITES THAT WERE ZONED AND READY FOR SOMEBODY TO COME IN, GET THEIR APPLICATION AND GET MOVING. AND SO WE WERE MISSING OUT ON THESE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT OPPORTUNITIES TO OTHER CITIES. SO THAT INITIATIVE WAS PUT IN PLACE. THE WEST PARK TOURS WAS CREATED. AND IF YOU LOOK ON THE MAP THERE, YOU SEE 2015, WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE IN THIS AREA AND IN 2025, WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE NOW. IT WORKED. THE ECONOMIC IMPACT IS HUGE, AND THE CITY, I THINK, DID A GREAT JOB OF DESIGNATING AN AREA WHERE WE WANT ALL OF OUR INDUSTRIAL USES TO BE, RATHER THAN JUST LETTING IT HAPPEN WILLY NILLY AND BE

[04:05:02]

THE CITY HAS BEGUN MISSING OUT. SO THIS PROPERTY WAS IN CONTRACT WITH A LARGE NATIONAL COMPANY.

ULTIMATELY. AND THEY HAD SOME MEETINGS WITH THE STAFF. ULTIMATELY THEY DROPPED IT AND RELOCATED TO ANOTHER CITY. TO BE FAIR, I WASN'T PART OF IT AT THE TIME, SO I DON'T KNOW WHY THEY DECIDED TO GO TO THE CITY. SO I'M NOT INSINUATING IT WASN'T ZONED, SO THEREFORE THEY LEFT.

THAT WOULD BE AN UNFAIR STATEMENT. I DON'T KNOW WHY IT WAS, BUT IT COULD BE ONE BECAUSE IT'S HAPPENED IN THE PAST, SO WHY WOULD WE BE ASKING FOR ZONING BEFORE WE HAVE A PROJECT? WELL, FOR THOSE REASONS OF COURSE, BUT ALSO TO PUT THE ZONING IN PLACE THAT THE CITY'S ALREADY DECIDED IT SHOULD BE. RR IS A PLACEHOLDER ZONING UNTIL YOU ZONE THE PROPERTY FOR THE USE THAT YOU INTEND IT TO BE. WELL, THE CITY ANNEXED IT. IT'S GOT THE PLACEHOLDER ZONING ON IT. THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP CLEARLY CALLS. I MEAN, WE'RE SITTING IN THE BULL'S EYE OF HIGH, SO THAT'S WHAT WE WANT THE PROPERTY TO BE. WHY WOULDN'T WE ZONE IT FOR WHAT IT CAN BE SO THAT A USER COMING IN CAN NOT HAVE TO WAIT 12 MONTHS TO SEE? IS THIS THE CITY THAT I CAN GO TO? AND LASTLY, OBVIOUSLY THIS IS THE NEXT AREA TO DEVELOP. YOU SAW THE MAP. EVERYTHING TO THE

[04:10:04]

THEY'VE GOT GREAT BUFFERS AS YOU SEE HERE. THIS IS OUR SITE. HERE'S UNDERWOOD ROAD, WHICH THE CHANGES TO THE MOBILITY PLAN MADE A TON OF SENSE. AND SO NOW YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE UNDERWOOD NORTH SOUTH AND I MIGHT ADD THIS PROPERTY TO OUR NORTH, WHICH IS A PRETTY BIG TRACT. THE LAST AVAILABLE TRACT BETWEEN. WESTERN BOULEVARD AND OUR TRACT IS IN CONTRACT. THEY'RE GOING THROUGH THE CITY PROCESS. AND TO YOUR POINT, EARLIER, COUNCIL MEMBER BECK, THEY WILL BE REQUIRED TO BUILD CORBIN ROAD ALL THE WAY NORTH TO SOUTH DOWN TO THE CORNER OF OUR PROPERTY. SO THAT WOULD PROVIDE ACCESS FOR ANYTHING THAT DEVELOPED HERE TO GO TO THE NORTH. SO, YOU KNOW, BUFFERING FOR THE FUTURE RESIDENTIAL OVER HERE IS ALREADY IN PLACE. YOU CAN SEE THE HEAVY INDUSTRIAL AS A PART OF HILLWOOD'S PROJECT IS PRETTY SUBSTANTIAL, WHICH MAKES SENSE.

AND THEN YOU'VE GOT LIGHT INDUSTRIAL OVER HERE AS IT TRANSITIONS. SO AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, DME IS BUILDING A MASSIVE SUBSTATION THERE, HILLWOOD'S INDUSTRIAL COMING TO THE WEST, 35 W IMPROVEMENTS COMING TO THE EAST. WE'RE SIMPLY ASKING TO BE ZONED SO THAT IT CAN BE PUT TO ITS APPROPRIATE USE AND THAT WE CAN ATTRACT A QUALITY BUYER FOR THIS LAND. WE DO NOT INTEND TO DEVELOP THE LAND, WE OWN IT. BUT OUR GOAL IS TO NOT GET TIED UP FOR SOMEBODY FOR 12 MONTHS WONDERING IF THEY'RE GOING TO GET THE ZONING RIGHT. AND SO YOU WANT TO HAVE SHOVEL READY SITES. BUT BUT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THIS IS JUST A ZONING CASE. SO ANYBODY THAT SEEKS TO DEVELOP THIS PROPERTY IS GOING TO HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE CITY PROCESS.

IF THERE ARE ROAD IMPROVEMENTS REQUIRED BASED ON THE TRAFFIC THEY WILL GENERATE, THEY'LL HAVE TO DO THOSE IMPROVEMENTS. IF THERE ARE OTHER INFRASTRUCTURE REQUIREMENTS THAT HAVE TO BE PUT IN PLACE, THE CITY WOULD REQUIRE THEM TO DO THOSE THINGS. SO THIS IS STRICTLY ABOUT ZONING. AND MY LAST POINT IS, IS THERE'S NOTHING ABOUT THE REQUEST THAT DOESN'T MEET WITH THE PLAN FROM 2010 THAT'S BEEN EXECUTED UP TO THIS POINT. AND THIS IS JUST THE NATURAL PROGRESSION. THIS IS NOT A NEIGHBORHOOD. THESE ARE IF YOU LOOKED AT THE MAP FROM 2015, ALL THIS PROPERTY OUT BY THE AIRPORT LOOKED LIKE THIS. THIS IS THE LAST LITTLE PIECE LEFT. AND THE AND THE TRANSITION JUST NEEDS TO CONTINUE. SO WE WOULD ASK THAT YOU VOTE IN FAVOR AND I'LL STAND FOR ANY QUESTIONS.

>> REPRESENTATIVE. FROM DISTRICT FOUR YOU HAVE THE FLOOR STILL. >> THAT WAS A VERY EXHAUSTIVE

ANSWER TO A VERY SIMPLE QUESTION. THANK YOU. >> MY PLEASURE. PRESENTATION IS

DONE SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO HEAR IT. EXCELLENT, EXCELLENT. >> THANK YOU.

>> REPRESENTATIVE FROM DISTRICT FIVE. >> THANKS FOR THE PRESENTATION.

I DON'T KNOW, YOU CAN PROBABLY ANSWER OR THIS MIGHT BE BETTER SUITED TO STAFF. I KNOW THAT AS A RESULT OF THIS, THIS TRACT AND THE LAST TRACT IS AVAILABLE TO THE NORTH, I BELIEVE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO FINISH CORBIN ROAD. RIGHT. SO WILL WATER WASTEWATER IMPROVEMENTS COME TO YOUR TRACT

AS A RESULT OF THE CORBIN ROAD CONSTRUCTION? >> I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE CITY IS REQUIRING IN THE WAY OF WATER. WASTEWATER OF THE TRACT TO THE NORTH, BUT OBVIOUSLY FOR OUR TRACT TO DEVELOP, REGARDLESS OF WHERE THEY HAD TO GO GET IT IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO USE IT, WHATEVER WATER WASTEWATER WAS REQUIRED, EITHER IT ALREADY WOULD HAVE BEEN PUT IN PLACE OR

THEY WOULD HAVE TO GO PUT IT IN PLACE. >> SO IT'S NOT THERE YET, RIGHT? BECAUSE THE BACKUP SAID THE BACKUP SAID IT'S COMING TO THE NORTHEAST OF THE PROPERTY. I'M

JUST A LITTLE CONFUSED ON ON THAT. THAT'S ALL. >> SO WATER AND WASTEWATER WOULD HAVE TO BE EXTENDED TO THE SITE. THE DEVELOPER WOULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR EXTENDING IT TO THEIR SITE. WITH REGARDS TO, I GUESS, EXACT LOCATION OF WHERE IT IS NOW. I'M CORRECT. THAT'S

WHAT YOU'RE INTERESTED IN KNOWING. YEAH. >> ALL SITE DEVELOPMENT WILL REQUIRE THAT THEY PROVIDE THE INFRASTRUCTURE. IF THEY NEED TO EXTEND THE MAIN, THEN THAT'S THEIR THEIR REQUIREMENT TO EXTEND THE MAIN. SO AT THAT PRESENT LOCATION THERE IS NOT UTILITIES AVAILABLE. IT WOULD IT WOULD PROGRESS DOWN FROM I BELIEVE FROM WESTERN TO THE TRACK TO THE NORTH TO THIS TRACK. WE'RE ALL RESPONSIBLE TO DO EVERYTHING ALONG THEIR

PERIMETER. >> OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU SCOTT. THANK YOU DIRECTOR.

>> OKAY, SO I HAVE. YEAH. ALL GOOD. SO I HAVE ONE CARD NOT WISHING TO SPEAK, BUT IS IN SUPPORT. I HAVE TWO OTHER CARDS. AGAIN THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING. FEEL FREE TO SPEAK AFTER THESE

[04:15:03]

GIVE YOUR NAME AND YOU'LL HAVE FOUR MINUTES. >> ALL RIGHTY, KELLY HOLTZCLAW I LIVE AT 261 UNDERWOOD ROAD. I HAVE LIVED IN THAT PARTICULAR AREA MY ENTIRE LIFE, BORN AND RAISED AND DIDN'T FLOW HOSPITAL. MY GRANDFATHER OWNED ALL OF THAT LAND THAT IS OUT THERE THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. HE HAD A DAIRY FARM. I REALLY WOULD PREFER NOT TO HAVE A HEAVY INDUSTRIAL RIGHT NEXT TO MY HOUSE AND ALL OF MY NEIGHBORS. IT IS A NEIGHBORHOOD. IT'S JUST A RURAL RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD. IT'S NOT HOUSES STACKED ON HOUSES. WE ALL HAVE WELL, WATER OUT THERE. DON'T WANT TO HAVE A HEAVY INDUSTRIAL ANYTHING OUT THERE CONTAMINATING MY WATER OR ANY OF MY NEIGHBORS. I'VE BEEN READING IN THE PAPERS ABOUT HOW DENTON IS RUNNING SHORT ON WATER, SO IF WE DON'T PUT AN INDUSTRIAL ANYTHING OUT THERE, THEN, HEY, WE'RE SAVING Y'ALL WATER. WE'LL JUST TAKE OU, WELL WATER AND WE'RE GOOD. AND I'VE BEEN TO A LOT OF THESE MEETINGS. THIS IS THE MOST FORMAL ONE SO FAR. WELL, WITH ALL OF YOU BIG GUYS AND LADIES, I JUST WANT TO SAY THE PLANNING AND ZONING, THEY HAD ALREADY SAID THAT THE EXPANSION OF SPRINGSIDE WOULD COST TOO MUCH MONEY AND NOT BE EFFECTIVE. YOU KNOW, SINCE IT'S JUST US NEIGHBORS. AND THEN, CORBIN, I WAS NOT AWARE THAT CORBIN IS GOING TO GET REOPENED. IT'S BEEN CLOSED FOR A VERY LONG TIME SINCE ONE OF MY BEST FRIENDS THAT'S A FIREFIGHTER HERE IN DENTON. HIM AND HIS DAD TRIED TO SAVE THE LADY THAT DROWNED THERE ON CORBIN, SO THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE A BETTER BRIDGE BUILT THERE. I GUESS BECAUSE OF THE FLOODING THAT GOES ON THERE, IT JUST SEEMS LIKE IT WOULD COST A WHOLE LOT OF MONEY TO MAKE THAT INDUSTRIAL. AND THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE LIVED THERE, THEIR, WELL, ME MY ENTIRE LIFE AND MY KIDS THAT I'M RAISING THAT HAVE GONE TO DENTON HIGH SCHOOL AND ALL THAT. MY NEIGHBORS THAT HAD BEEN OUT THERE FOR YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS. WE JUST WANT OUR LITTLE SLICE OF HEAVEN KIND OF LEFT ALONE. I KNOW THAT WE'RE GETTING SUCKED IN BY ALL THOSE WAREHOUSES, AND THE TRAFFIC IS ABSOLUTELY CRAZY OUT THERE WITH ALL OF THE WAREHOUSES THAT HAVE BEEN BUILT OUT THERE. I MEAN, IT'S HORRIBLE TRYING TO EVEN GET OUT OF MY DRIVEWAY SOME DAYS. SO I JUST WOULD HOPE THAT YOU GUYS WOULD NOT BE IN FAVOR OF IT BECAUSE THERE ARE NO THERE'S NO WATER, NO SEWER, NO ROADS, BASICALLY, TO GET TO WHERE THEY'RE WANTING TO HAVE THIS HEAVY INDUSTRIAL. AND THEN THE SECTION ABOVE THAT EVERYBODY WAS TALKING ABOUT THAT HAS A HICKORY CREEK THAT RUNS THROUGH IT. AND THE PLANNING AND ZONING SAID THAT THEY COULD NOT RUN WESTERN ALL THE WAY DOWN TO UNDERWOOD AND HAVE UNDERWOOD KIND OF HIT AIRPORT ROAD, BECAUSE A BRIDGE THAT WOULD COST MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO BUILD, THAT WAS NOT GOING TO WORK OUT. AND THEN IT WOULD INTERRUPT THE WILDLIFE THAT IS THERE AS WELL. SO I THAT'S MY $0.02. HOPEFULLY THAT'S MAKES A LOT OF SENSE. AND, YOU KNOW, I'M JUST TRYING TO PROTECT MY HOME AND WHAT MY GRANDFATHER STARTED OUT BACK IN THE 60S. SO THANK YOU.

>> OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. AND THEN THE NEXT SPEAKER IS BARBARA. WHITWORTH. YES. THANK YOU. IF YOU CAN GIVE YOUR NAME YOU HAVE FOUR MINUTES. THANK YOU.

>> COULD SOMEONE BRING. >> THAT PICTURE BACK UP OF CORBIN ROAD? MY NAME IS BARBARA WHITWORTH. I LIVE AT 4085 CORBIN ROAD AND MY PROPERTY BUTTS UP TO THE PROPERTY THAT IS THERE.

WANTING TO CHANGE THE ZONING FOR. THE RED. LITTLE WORK TO DO. THE RED ONE ONE. NEXT UP, SEE THE SOLID RED ONE? OKAY, I'M NOT SURE IF YOU CAN SEE IT, BUT. YEAH, THAT THAT SPOT RIGHT THERE, THAT CORNER RIGHT THERE IS WHERE MY HOUSE IS. THE BIGGER SQUARE. THE BIGGER SQUARE IS ALL OF MY PROPERTY. AND LIKE I SAID, IT BUTTS UP TO THEIR PROPERTY. AND I'VE BEEN THERE 30 YEARS.

IT'S QUIET OUT THERE. IT'S PEACEFUL OUT THERE. NOW. CORBIN ROAD HAS BEEN CLOSED FROM THE CREEK ALL THE WAY UP TO SEE THE CREEK ALL THE WAY UP TO THE CORNER THERE. RIGHT THERE. AND

[04:20:04]

THE ZONING CHANGE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. HAVE A GOOD EVENING. >> OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

APPRECIATE IT. THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING. YOU COULD SPEAK AND THEN FILL OUT A CARD AFTER THE FACT. IF THERE'S ANYONE THAT CARES TO SEEING NOTHING, NO ONE MOVING. I WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. AND JUST IN CASE. SO IT WAS OPEN. NOW IT'S CLOSED AND. I'LL TAKE I JUST. CAN. MATT, CAN YOU CAN YOU SPEAK TO WHAT IS THIS SPRING SIDE DRIVE OR JUST. I GUESS I NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT PROJECTS ARE OUT THERE, WHAT'S CURRENTLY YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY GOOGLE MAPS IS BEHIND.

ME A FEEL FOR WHAT'S IN PROCESS? AND OBVIOUSLY LET'S LET'S NARROW THAT A BIT.

LET'S SAY SPRING DALE IS THAT SPRING SPRING SIDE. PARDON ME. AND TO CORBIN, I'VE HEARD SOMEONE TALK ABOUT CORBIN BEING IMPROVED. IS THAT WHAT I HEARD? SOMEONE'S DEVELOPING OUT THERE?

HAS ANYONE TALKED ABOUT SPRING SIDE? >> MAYBE.

>> LET'S GO. OOPS. >> OVER HERE. SO ON THIS MAP, IT IS A LITTLE A LITTLE OUT OF DATE, BUT THE PINK STARS GENERALLY INDICATE PROJECTS IN ACTIVE DEVELOPMENT. THIS LARGE SQUARE HERE. THERE IS SOMEONE IN DISCUSSION WITH WITH STAFF ABOUT DEVELOPING THAT AREA ON THE NORTH SIDE OF SPRING SIDE. AND SO AS PART OF THEIR DEVELOPMENT, THEY WOULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR

IMPROVING HALF OF SPRING SIDE ON THEIR SIDE OF THE PROPERTY. >> AND SO IT'S ONE LANE EACH

WAY. NOW WHAT IS HALF IMPROVEMENT LOOK LIKE. >> SO THAT WOULD MEAN IMPROVING ALL DEDICATING UP TO 32.5FT FROM THE CENTER LINE OF SPRING SIDE, ADDING IN PAVEMENT, CURB AND GUTTER SIDEWALK ALONG TO OUR COLLECTOR STREET. STANDARD DETAILS.

>> GOT IT. SO. AND PARDON ME, ADDING A LANE. IS THAT WHAT YOU GAVE ME? THE FOOTAGE?

>> BUT THERE. I'D HAVE TO CHECK, I BELIEVE. YEAH, I BELIEVE THERE'S FOUR LANES, I'M PRETTY

SURE. FOUR. YES. SO FOUR LANES FOR COLLECTOR. >> RIGHT. SO THEY WOULD HAVE HAVE TO ADD HALF OF THAT. YOU SAID. SO THEY DO. SO THEY DO TWO LANES.

>> YES. >> HOW DOES THAT WORK. AND FORGIVE ME FOR NOT KNOWING THEY IF THEY'RE ONLY RESPONSIBLE FOR HALF WHAT WE DO THE WHOLE THING AT ONCE, OR WOULD WE ONLY

IMPROVE HALF THE ROAD? SO THEY'RE PAYING FOR. >> AS THE CASE WITH ANY DEVELOPMENT IN THE CITY, THEY'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR IMPROVEMENTS TO THE STREETS ALONG THEIR PROPERTY FRONTAGE, PERIMETER IMPROVEMENTS. AND SO THERE WAS AS A CITY, WE CAN ASK FOR UP TO IMPROVEMENTS, UP TO HALF OF THAT ROAD OF WHAT WE WOULD WANT THE FULL BUILD OUT TO BE. SO IN THIS CASE, THE TWO LANES, SIDEWALKS, STREET TREES, CURB AND GUTTER AT THE TIME OF THEIR DEVELOPMENT, THE ANY PROPERTY ON THE OTHER SIDE AT THE TIME THEY WANT TO DEVELOP. IF THE ROAD ON THEIR

[04:25:01]

>> LET ME. BUT I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND. >> MAYOR SCOTT MCDONALD DIRECTOR OF DEVELOPMENT SERVICES. SO ANY PROPERTY THAT DEVELOPS IN DENTON IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR HALF OF THE IMPROVEMENTS. SO IF THE PROPERTY TO THE NORTH DEVELOPS, THEY'LL BUILD HALF OF IT. THE PROPERTY TO THE SOUTH WOULD BUILD THE OTHER HALF OF IT. THE TIMING ON THAT, I THINK, IS YOUR QUESTION, AND THE TIMING ON THAT WOULD BE DEPENDENT UPON. WHO'S THERE FIRST OR IF THERE'S A COORDINATION OR IF WE HAVE ANY CAPITAL PROJECT PLAN FOR THIS PARTICULAR AREA. WE DO NOT HAVE ANY CAPITAL PROJECTS PLANNED. SO THEY WOULD BUILD HALF THE ROADWAY AND LIKELY ON THEIR PROPERTY. AND THEN WE WOULD LIKE WHERE YOU MAY SEE IN SOME AREAS OF TOWN, WE'LL HAVE A PORTION OF A ROAD BUILT, AS YOU SEE, WITH LIKE BONNIE BRAE OR VINTAGE WHERE WE BUILD PORTIONS OF THAT ROAD AND THEN WE JUST CONTINUE AS WE GO FORWARD, IF THAT HELPS TO ANSWER THAT, WE HAVE HAD DIALOG ON SPRING SIDE ON UNDERWOOD AND ON CORBIN ROAD FOR IMPROVEMENTS TO ALL THREE OF THOSE ROADWAYS. CORBIN WOULD BE IMPROVED IN THAT AREA. CORBIN WOULD NOT GO BEYOND I-35. SO ANY OF THAT CONVERSATION THAT THAT WAS A DISCUSSION ABOUT IT CONTINUING THROUGH 35, IT WOULD NOT. BUT THAT SEGMENT OF CORBIN ROAD WHERE THIS PROJECT SITE IS AT, AS WELL AS THE PROJECT TO THE NORTH OF THAT, WOULD BE MAKING THOSE IMPROVEMENTS FOR SPRING SIDE. CORBIN AND

UNDERWOOD. >> GOT IT. OKAY. THANK YOU. AND THANK YOU, MATT. MAYOR PRO TEM.

>> THIS MAY BE SCOTT AGAIN, UNLESS MATT WANTS TO TRY CORBIN ROAD. SO YOU SAID THAT IT WILL NOT. AT LEAST IN THIS CASE, IT WILL NOT BE GOING PAST I-35W. ARE THERE STILL PLANS TO DO THAT OR WE'VE TOTALLY NIXED IT, OR JUST THAT IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN ANYTIME SOON. LIKE, I KNOW IT CAN ALWAYS BE ADDED BACK TO A PLAN POTENTIALLY, BUT IN TERMS OF US HERE TODAY, NO

INTENT TO ADD IT BACK. >> WE HAVE ZERO INTENT TO CONTINUE CORBIN FROM EAST TO WEST ON 35 CORBIN ROAD WILL BE IMPROVED ON BOTH SIDES AND CONNECT TO A FUTURE SERVICE ROAD, AND THAT WILL BE THE EXTENT OF IT. THE BRIDGE GOING UNDERNEATH WILL BE USED FOR PEDESTRIAN USE OR WHATNOT, BUT THERE WILL BE NO CHANGES OR NO NO VEHICULAR TRAFFIC.

>> SO AS OF TODAY, THERE ARE STILL PLANS TO CONNECT CORBIN ROAD ON BOTH SIDES OF 35 TO

THOSE FUTURE ACCESS ROADS. >> THAT THAT IS CORRECT. >> OKAY. THANK YOU.

>> REPRESENTATIVE FROM DISTRICT FIVE. >> MAYOR. ONE MORE FOR THE APPLICANT. YEAH. COUNCIL MEMBER, YOUR EXPERIENCE, WHAT'S THE TIMELINE FOR A POTENTIAL BUYER FOR THIS PROPERTY? I UNDERSTAND THAT A LOT OF TIMES THEY TAKE LONGER THAN NOT. SOME ARE SHORTER THAN OTHER. OBVIOUSLY. I KNOW THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WAS TAKEN INTO YOUR CALCULATIONS BEFORE YOU PURCHASED THE PROPERTY AND COMING AND BRINGING A ZONING CHANGE BEFORE US. SO KIND OF JUST FILL OUT A TIMELINE. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE UNDERSTAND THAT

THIS PROBABLY ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN TOMORROW OR NOT. >> SURE. WELL, I MEAN, THIS IS A LONG TERM HOLD MENTALITY FOR US. OBVIOUSLY THERE'S A LOT THAT HAS TO BE DONE. WE KNOW THAT THE PROPERTY TO THE NORTH IS GOING THROUGH THE PROCESS. WHETHER OR NOT THAT DEAL HAPPENS, WE DON'T KNOW. IT'S LIKELY THAT OUR PROPERTY WOULDN'T MAKE SENSE TO DEVELOP UNTIL EVERYTHING TO THE NORTH DEVELOPED JUST BECAUSE OF IF YOU THINK ABOUT A PROJECT THIS SMALL, HAVING TO BUILD CORBIN ALL THE WAY FROM BASICALLY FROM WESTERN ALL THE WAY DOWN AND CONNECT PAST AYERS AND ALL THE UTILITIES, THAT WOULD BE LIKELY TOO SMALL OF A PROJECT TO BE ABLE TO AFFORD THOSE SORT OF IMPROVEMENTS. AND SO THE IDEA HERE IS THE PROPERTY ADJACENT TO US TO THE NORTH IS ZONED. WE'RE JUST TRYING TO ZONE IT SO THAT IF THE PROPERTY TO THE NORTH OF OURS GOES WELL, THAT'S A LOT OF SQUARE FOOTAGE, BUT THEY WOULD HAVE TO DO THOSE IMPROVEMENTS. SO IT'S HARD TO PREDICT THIS ISN'T A SUDDEN THING. RIGHT. BUT FRANKLY, WHAT LANDOWNERS DON'T WANT IS TO GET TIED UP IN A CONTRACT WITH SOMEBODY AND SIT AROUND FOR 12 MONTHS WONDERING IF THEY'RE GOING TO GET THEIR ZONING OR NOT, SO THAT THEY THEN CAN DECIDE WHETHER THEY WANT TO CLOSE ON THE PROPERTY AND GO BUILD SOMETHING. SO THE IDEA HERE IS JUST LIKE EVERYTHING TO THE NORTH IS GET IT ZONED SO THAT YOU CAN THEN FIELD THE COMERS AND DECIDE, IS THIS

[04:30:07]

>> THANK YOU. COUNCIL MEMBER. >> REPRESENTATIVE FROM DISTRICT TWO.

>> THANK YOU. THIS IS THIS IS FOR MR. SCOTT OR WHOEVER WANTS TO. AND I THINK WE MIGHT HAVE HEARD THE ANSWER FROM FORMER COUNCILOR JOHNSON. AND THAT IS IT SOUNDS LIKE ALL THE DISCUSSION, YOU KNOW, NOTHING'S GOING TO GO DOWN TO THE SOUTH BECAUSE OF THE TEX DOT PLANS.

AND WE'RE ALREADY KIND OF MAPPED OUT FOR THE MPC TO THE SOUTH IN TERMS OF THAT DEVELOPMENT STYLE.

SO ALL OF THIS IS COMING FROM THE NORTH IS I MEAN, CAN I SUMMARIZE IN THAT ANY ANY RESOURCES, ANY ROADS, ANY ANYTHING IS COMING THROUGH THAT ISA HEAVY PARCEL TO THE SOUTH, SO FAR FROM BEING A FOREGONE CONCLUSION THAT THAT'S PROBABLY A CHALLENGING PARCEL TO THE NORTH. AND I KNOW THIS IS ABOUT THIS PARCEL. SO I WANT YOU TO BE CAREFUL, NOT SPECULATE ON SOME OTHER PARCEL. BUT IN TERMS OF THE ENVIRONMENT, THIS PARCEL FINDS ITSELF IN, YOU KNOW. IS IT CORRECT THAT ALL THE UTILITIES, SERVICES, ROADS, EVERYTHING IS GOING TO COME DOWN FROM THE

NORTH? >> IT IS CORRECT THAT WASTEWATER EXISTS TO THE NORTH, WATER EXISTS TO THE NORTH. THE ROADWAY NETWORK WILL BE FROM THE NORTH AND THE SOUTH. SO UNDERWOOD ROAD WILL CONTINUE, WILL COME UP FROM 2449. THAT REALIGNMENT OF THE UNDERWOOD STATION. SO ALL OF THAT ROADWAY NETWORK IS PLANNED TO BE CONNECTED. AND THAT WAS WHAT THE MOBILITY PLAN AMENDMENTS WERE FOR. SO NORTH AND THE SOUTH, IT IS AVOIDING MOST OF THE AREA. THAT BRIDGE ISN'T GOING TO BE IMPROVED. THERE'S THAT ALTERNATIVE PLAN. SO YES, THE WATER THE WASTEWATER WILL COME FROM THE NORTH, THE ROADWAY NETWORK WILL COME FROM THE NORTH AND FROM THE SOUTH.

>> OKAY. I AND LET ME SAY IT IN THE FORM OF A QUESTION, BECAUSE AGAIN, I'M TRYING TO BE MINDFUL THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT RED PARCEL AND NOT THE ONE TO THE NORTH IN GENERAL. PARCELS WITH A LOT OF RIPARIAN AND ESA ARE CHALLENGING TO GET OFF THE GROUND AND DEVELOP.

>> THAT IS A CORRECT STATEMENT. >> OKAY. SO I MEAN, I'M TRYING TO I'M TRYING TO KEEP US IN OUR

LANE. SO I APPRECIATE THAT. THANK YOU. >> OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS. I I'M GOING TO MOVE APPROVAL. BUT HERE'S I WANT TO I WANT TO SPEAK TO THE RESIDENTS CONCERN BECAUSE IF NOBODY UNDERSTANDS I DO BECAUSE I GREW UP ON BONNIE BRAE STREET WHICH WAS ONE LANE EACH WAY. AND WHERE THE HOSPITAL IS, IS WHERE MY FRIEND'S HOUSE WAS WITH THEIR HORSES. AND IT LOOKS VERY DIFFERENT TODAY. AND REMEMBER RAYZOR RANCH VERY WELL. I STILL MISS THE LONGHORNS AND ALL THE THINGS SO VERY SENSITIVE TO THAT. AND DON'T TAKE IT. I DON'T TAKE IT LIGHTLY. BUT HERE'S WHAT GUIDES MY DECISION. MACK CAN I BORROW YOU? THE DO YOU HAVE A YOU DO HAVE A SLIDE

WHERE THERE'S ZONING AROUND THE SUBJECT PROPERTY. >> THIS ONE IS A LITTLE BIT

MORE. >> YEAH. THAT SO THE BROWN IS ETJ CORRECT. SO ANYTHING CAN GO

THERE. >> NOT QUITE. SO THESE PARTICULAR ONES DO HAVE NON ANNEXATION AGREEMENTS ON THERE. RIGHT. SO IF THEY WANT TO DEVELOP ANYTHING THEY WOULD HAVE

TO BE ANNEXED INTO THE CITY. >> OKAY. AND THEN THEY WOULD WHAT ZONING WOULD IT GET.

>> IT WOULD GET RR UNTIL THEY COME HERE FOR REZONING. >> RIGHT. AND SO JUST KIND OF

[04:35:03]

>> SO IT WAS AMENDED SO THAT NOW THE PROPOSED STREETS FOLLOW THE EXISTING RIGHT OF WAY.

>> GOT IT. OKAY. SO THAT'S A FORMER PLAN. RIGHT. BUT BUT SO THEN WE HAD PLANNED ON A STREET RUNNING CLOSER TO THE NEIGHBORS. BUT WE'VE PUSHED THAT OUT MADE SOME ADJUSTMENTS THERE. GOT IT.

SO YEAH. STRUGGLE WITH IT. CERTAINLY IT'S HELPFUL TO KNOW THAT THERE'S A AND HERE'S MY STRUGGLE TRAFFIC. RIGHT. BECAUSE I THINK THAT THAT'S REALLY CRITICAL TO MAKE SURE WE'RE MINDFUL OF THAT. AND MAYBE THAT'S SOMETHING WE START PLANNING ON NOW TO GET IN FRONT OF. BECAUSE WHEN I-35 IS UNDER CONSTRUCTION, THERE IS NO MONEY FOR THE FOR THE SERVICE ROADS. I UNDERSTAND IT NOW, BUT AS AS THEY START TALKING ABOUT THAT, THAT IS THE I GUESS IT'S GOING TO GET MY STREETS WRONG. BUT UNDERWOOD, WHICH IS THAT THE ONE THAT TAKES YOU TO THE TO THE HIGHWAY, YOU GO TO THE NORTH AND THEN IT CUTS OVER AND GETS YOU TO THE TO 1171 OR WHATEVER.

>> TO THE NORTH. IS AIRPORT OKAY? >> RIGHT. NO. YEAH.

>> SOUTH AND THEN SOUTH. >> YES. YEAH. BUT AND SO I AM CONCERNED ABOUT THAT. AND MAYBE IT'S SOMETHING WHERE WE TALK ABOUT RESTRICTING TRUCK TRAFFIC, WHERE IT ALL HAS TO GO BACK OUT TOWARDS AIRPORT ROAD BECAUSE THAT'S GOING TO GET IMPROVED. WE KNOW THERE'S MONEY FOR THAT THAT'S GOING. AND SO I THINK THERE'S SOME STUFF WE CAN TALK ABOUT NOW WHERE WE CAN BE GOOD NEIGHBORS AND HAVE THOSE THINGS IN PLACE AND HAVE GOOD HABITS IN PLACE SO THAT ALDI AND ALL THOSE OTHER FOLKS KNOW TO GO TOWARDS AIRPORT AND, AND KIND OF GET IN FRONT OF THAT AND GET SOME GOOD HABITS GOING, BUT CERTAINLY SENSITIVE TO THE NEIGHBORS, I THINK THEY REPRESENTED THEMSELVES WELL. SO I DON'T I DON'T MAKE THE SUGGESTION LIGHTLY. I JUST THINK THIS IS TO GET THEM OUT OF THAT PLACE HOLDER STANDPOINT. AND THEN AS WE TALK ABOUT WATER AND SOME OF THOSE OTHER THINGS, WE STILL HAVE SOME NEGOTIATING TOOLS TO AT PLAY. AND I THINK WE CAN MAKE SURE WE HAVE A GOOD PROJECT WITH GOOD BUFFERS IN PLACE TO MAKE SURE THEY GET TO ENJOY THE A PIECE OF PROPERTY THAT I THINK ALL OF US WOULD ENJOY. SO JUST WANTED TO HAVE A CLEAR RECORD OF WHERE I AM, AND THAT I CERTAINLY HEARD YOU AND DON'T TAKE IT LIGHTLY. REPRESENTATIVE FROM

DISTRICT SIX. >> COUNCILPERSON JESTER, I, I JUST WANT TO ECHO SOME OF THAT THAT I CAME INTO TONIGHT'S MEETING AFTER REVIEWING THE, YOU KNOW, 2010 PLAN THAT FOR 15 YEARS IT'S BEEN INTENDED THAT THAT AREA IS HIGH INDUSTRIAL THAT THE MOBILITY PLAN. BUT I NOW IT IS A STRUGGLE AND IT'S NOT BLACK AND WHITE AS FAR AS WHAT DECISIONS ARE IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE CITY. HOWEVER, I JUST I DO FEEL THAT THE AREA, THE PROXIMITY TO I-35 AND THE ALDI DISTRICT DISTRIBUTION TARGET THE AIRPORT. FASTENAL PLANNING AND ZONING VOTED IN FAVOR. I JUST I'M I, I THINK THAT IT IS GOING TO BE INDUSTRIAL AND IT'S BEEN PLANNED TO BE INDUSTRIAL. I UNDERSTAND BEING IN THE ETJ AND HAVING DIFFERENT OPTIONS OUTSIDE OF THE CITY, BUT BLESS YOU. I DON'T THINK THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN IMMEDIATELY. HOWEVER, I THINK WHETHER IT'S TODAY OR MONTHS FROM NOW, I THINK THAT IS PART OF THE PLAN. AND I THINK IT'S.

FAIR THAT THE EXPECTATION FOR THE PAST 15 YEARS IS THIS AREA IS GOING TO BE HIGH INDUSTRIAL.

SO I, I DON'T EXPECT YOU TO AGREE OR, OR APPRECIATE IT, BUT IT'S NEVER FUN NOT TO VOTE IN FAVOR OF GOOD PEOPLE WANTING TO PRESERVE THEIR PROPERTY. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I THINK THIS PROPERTY'S HIGHEST AND BEST USE IS GOING TO BE THE INDUSTRIAL AND THE YEARS TO COME. AND AS PART OF THE ECONOMIC PLAN FOR THE CITY THAT HAS BEEN SO SUCCESSFUL FOR THE CITY. SO I JUST WANTED TO GIVE A COUPLE OF MINUTES TO EXPLAIN MY VOTE. BUT IT'S CERTAINLY NOT AN EASY VOTE.

AND I CERTAINLY RESPECT THE WISHES AND THE HERITAGE OF THE CITIZENS THAT HAVE SPOKEN

[04:40:02]

TONIGHT. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. REPRESENTATIVE DISTRICT TWO.

>> THANK YOU. I THINK YOU'RE HEARING A LOT OF SOUL SEARCHING AND BEING THOUGHTFUL. AND I APPRECIATE THE REST OF MY FELLOW COUNCILORS. I'M DOING THAT TOO. WE OUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IS CLEAR THAT THIS IS WE'VE DESIGNED IT TO BE, YOU KNOW, MOVE TOWARDS THE DIRECTION OF HAVING INDUSTRIAL. THAT SAID. IT'S NOT THERE RIGHT NOW. SO WHAT I KEEP RUNNING INTO IS SORT OF WE'RE WE'RE TRYING TO TUMBLE SOME OF THE TRANSITIONAL DOMINOES OUT OF ORDER. I THINK IF WE HAD BEEN AS SERIOUS AS WE'RE SUGGESTING WE ARE ABOUT THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE COMP PLAN IN AN EXPEDITIOUS FASHION. THEN A FEW YEARS AGO, WHEN THESE NAS CAME UP FOR RENEWAL OR FIRST FIRST OCCURRENCE AND THEN RENEWAL, WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN A LITTLE MORE DECISIVE ABOUT SAYING, NO, NO, NO, WE'RE GOING TO WE'RE GOING TO DO OUR BEST TO HOLD TO THESE THESE OTHER PLANS.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, AND IN FACT, YOU SEE SOME OF THE FACT THAT THIS PROPERTY WAS IN AN NAR AND, AND EXPIRED AND, AND THEN GOT ANNEXED INTO THE CITY AND, AND I FEEL LIKE IT WILL GO HEAVY INDUSTRIAL AT ONE POINT, BUT WITH THESE HAVING TEN, 15, 20 YEAR NAS, THAT GIVES YOU THE TIME FRAME TO ALLOW THIS PROPERTY, THESE NEIGHBORS, TO ORGANICALLY DEVELOP AND COME INTO LINE WITH OUR LONG TERM COMPREHENSIVE PLAN WITHOUT STANDING IN ITS WAY, NECESSARILY. AND SO I'M GOING TO BE VOTING NO, NOT BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THAT IN 10 OR 15, 20 YEARS THIS IS GOING TO BE HEAVY INDUSTRIAL. I THINK IT WILL BE. BUT IT IT'S SORT OF TOO QUICK, TOO MANY, NOT ENOUGH STEPS ALL AT ONCE. IT'S NOT ALLOWING THIS TO HAPPEN IN A TRANSITIONAL FASHION. AND WE DON'T KNOW WHEN THAT PROPERTY THE NORTH IS GOING TO DEVELOP. I YOU KNOW, I THINK YOU CAN TELL FROM THE FROM THE QUESTIONS I ASKED THAT THAT ANY OF THESE, YOU KNOW, ANYTHING ON A PREFERRED PRESERVATION PLAN, ANYTHING ON OUR WILDLIFE CORRIDOR PLAN, ANYTHING WITH ACES, ANYTHING THAT REQUIRES CAPITAL PROJECT BRIDGES, ANYTHING THAT REQUIRES MAJOR ROAD CONSTRUCTIONS. THOSE ARE ALL BARRIERS. AND THEY ALL EXIST TO THE PROPERTY TO THE NORTH.

AND SO IT'S PROBABLY HONESTLY EQUALLY LIKELY THAT IT DEVELOPS UP FROM THE SOUTH AS COMING DOWN FROM THE NORTH. AND UNTIL YOU KNOW, THAT DEVELOPMENT PATTERN AND WHAT'S GOING TO BE LEFT, I THINK IT'S PREMATURE. I THINK IT'S PREMATURE TO JUMP ON THIS AND SAY, NOPE, I'M GOING TO PLOP THIS DOWN IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS, THIS RURAL NEIGHBORHOOD, TEN, TEN YEARS, 15 YEARS. YEAH, BUT

BUT NOT RIGHT NOW. SO I'LL BE VOTING NO. >> GOT IT. SO WE HAVE A MOTION A

SECOND. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? MAYOR PRO TEM? >> I DON'T LIKE HEAVY INDUSTRIAL NEAR HOMES, BUT FOR CITIES WANTING A DIVERSE ECONOMIC PORTFOLIO, YOU DO WANT SOME AMOUNT OF INDUSTRIAL. IF YOU DECIDE YOU'RE GOING TO BUILD INDUSTRIAL, YOU NEED TO DECIDE WHERE IT'S GOING TO GO. AT SOME POINT, MADE A DECISION TO BUILD INDUSTRIAL TO INCLUDE THAT IN OUR PORTFOLIO. AND THIS IS WHERE WE DECIDED IT WAS GOING TO GO. IF IT DOESN'T GO HERE, IT GOES SOMEWHERE ELSE. THIS IS WHERE WE'VE ALREADY BEGUN TO BUILD IT. SO I REALLY FEEL FOR THE NEIGHBORS. I WOULD BE REALLY DISAPPOINTED IF I LIVED OUT THERE. AND, YOU KNOW, ALL OF THIS WAS SURROUNDING ME AND I WAS LOSING SOME OF THAT PEACE AND QUIET. BUT DENTON HAS DECIDED THAT WE'RE GOING TO DO INDUSTRIAL. THIS IS WHERE IT'S GOING TO GO AND, YOU KNOW, IS GOING TO BECOME THAT. IT'S WHAT WE'VE BEEN PLANNING FOR YEARS. AND THIS IS PART OF OUR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT TO TRY TO TAKE SOME OF THE TAX BURDEN OFF OF RESIDENTIAL TAXPAYERS IN THE CITY. SO I DID WANT TO EXPLAIN THAT I WILL BE VOTING YES, BUT I ABSOLUTELY FEEL FOR THE

NEIGHBORS, AND I DON'T TAKE THIS LIGHTLY EITHER. >> THANK YOU.

>> OKAY. THANK YOU. ANYONE ELSE? OKAY. AND I JUST BEFORE WE VOTE, I DO WANT TO ADD ONE OTHER THING THAT SIMILARLY THE PROJECT CAME IT CAME OUT OF THE ETJ AND THEY'RE THEY'RE GIVEN AN RR VERSUS HAVING AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE DISCUSSION. IF WE COULD HAVE HAD THIS DISCUSSION WHEN IT'S COMING OUT, MAYBE A DIFFERENT PLACEHOLDER MAKES SENSE. BUT WE DON'T WE'RE NOT AFFORDED THAT OPPORTUNITY. SO THAT'S IT'S CHALLENGING ALL THE WAY AROUND FOR SURE. SO THAT

[04:45:02]

[A. Consider approval of a resolution of the City of Denton stating no objection to 2100 Spencer Road (TX) Owner LP’s 4% housing tax credit application to Texas Department of Housing and Community Affairs for proposed rehabilitation of the Waterford at Spencer Oaks Apartments to provide affordable rental housing; and providing an effective date.]

[B. Consider approval of a resolution of the City of Denton approving the issuance and sale by Legacy Denton Public Facility Corporation of Multifamily Housing Revenue Bonds (Waterford at Spencer Oaks) Series 2025 to provide affordable rental housing; and providing an effective date.]

>> AND I'LL BE GIVING A SINGLE PRESENTATION FOR ITEMS A AND B TONIGHT.

>> OKAY, THEN I'LL CALL THAT AS WELL. ITEM B I'D 251316. CONSIDER APPROVAL OF A RESOLUTION. THE CITY OF DENTON APPROVING THE ISSUANCE AND SALE OF LEGACY DENTON PUBLIC FACILITY CORPORATION OF MULTIFAMILY HOUSING REVENUE BONDS. WATERFORD AT SPENCER OAKS SERIES 2025 TO PROVIDE AFFORDABLE RENTAL HOUSING AND PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE DATE.

>> GOOD EVENING, MAYOR AND COUNCIL. I'M HERE TO TALK TO YOU TONIGHT ABOUT AN ITEM THAT WAS HEARD LAST COUNCIL MEETING, THE APPROVAL OF WATERFORD AT SPENCER OAKS, THE 4% HOUSING TAX CREDIT APPLICATION AND THE MULTIFAMILY HOUSING REVENUE BONDS THAT ARE NEEDED TO BUILD IT. AS A QUICK OVERVIEW AND A REMINDER, THIS IS AN EXISTING AFFORDABLE HOUSING DEVELOPMENT LOCATED ON SPENCER, SPENCER, OAKS OR SPENCER. EXCUSE ME? IT WAS FUNDED BY HOUSING TAX CREDITS IN 1996. THOSE AFFORDABILITY REQUIREMENTS ARE GOING TO BE EXPIRING SOON. THE DEVELOPER IS SEEKING ANOTHER 4% HOUSING TAX CREDIT TO REFURBISH THE DEVELOPMENT AND RECOMMIT THE AFFORDABILITY FOR ANOTHER 30 YEARS. AS PART OF THAT 4% HOUSING PROCESS, THEY ARE REQUIRED TO USE MULTIFAMILY HOUSING REVENUE BONDS, WHICH ARE ISSUED BY, IN THIS CASE, LEGACY DENTON PUBLIC FACILITY CORPORATION AS THE ELECTED GOVERNING BODY OF THAT ORGANIZATION, YOU ARE REQUIRED TO SUBMIT APPROVAL FOR THOSE BONDS. MAYOR, YOU HAD ASKED FOR A SATELLITE VIEW OF THE PROPERTY. I'VE INCLUDED IT HERE IN THE PRESENTATION, AND I CAN FLIP BACK TO IT AT YOUR

CONVENIENCE LATER ON IF YOU LIKE. >> PERFECT. THANK YOU.

>> LAST TIME. PREVIOUS ACTIONS. COUNCIL POSTPONED THE VOTE TO HAVE DISCUSSIONS WITH LOCAL HOUSING ORGANIZATIONS TO SEE IF THE DEVELOPER BENEFITS COULD REMAIN HERE IN DENTON, WE SPOKE WITH THE DENTON HOUSING AUTHORITY AND ALTHOUGH THEY HAD NO ILL WILL OR ANIMOSITY TOWARDS THE PROJECT, IT JUST WASN'T A GREAT FIT FOR THEM AT THE TIME WHEN THEY WERE ORIGINALLY APPROACHED ABOUT IT. SO THEY DECIDED WITH THE DEVELOPER THAT IT WASN'T WASN'T RIGHT FOR EITHER EITHER GROUP. AND WE HAVE ALSO HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH DENTON AFFORDABLE HOUSING CORPORATION DAC. THEY HAVE WORKED OUT KIND OF A PRELIMINARY COOPERATIVE AGREEMENT WITH THE DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION OF TARRANT COUNTY, WHICH IS THE CHOTO THAT IS PARTNERED WITH THE PROJECT TO SEE SOME OF THOSE BENEFITS RETURN TO DENTON TO DO SOME TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE AND SOME TRAINING FOR DAC TO HELP SEE THE SOME OF THE BENEFITS OF THIS HOUSING PROJECT COME BACK TO DENTON. COUNCIL HAS A COUPLE OPTIONS. THE FIRST IS ALLOW THE PROJECT TO MOVE FORWARD.

APPROVING THE RONO THE RESOLUTION NO OBJECTION AND THE ISSUANCE AND SALE OF THE BONDS.

STAFF WILL PROVIDE UPDATE ON THE STATUS OF THE COOPERATIVE AGREEMENT WITH DAC AND THE DEVELOPER WILL PROCEED WITH THE PROJECT AS PLANNED. OR COUNCIL CAN CHOOSE TO DENY BOTH OF THESE OBJECTS IN THE PROJECT WILL NOT MOVE FORWARD. WITH THAT, I'LL STAND FOR QUESTIONS.

>> OKAY. THANK YOU. QUESTIONS FOR STAFF. ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF REPRESENTATIVE FROM

DISTRICT TWO? >> THANK YOU JESSE, I'M A LITTLE CONFUSED IN THE NARRATIVE. HELP ME UNDERSTAND. SO IS THE IS THE HOST ORGANIZATION DAC OR IS IT TARRANT COUNTY OR. I GOT

CONFUSED IN THE NARRATIVE. >> MY APOLOGIES. SO THE OWNERSHIP STRUCTURE FOR THE PROPERTY IS WITH THE DEVELOPER AND THE DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION OF TARRANT COUNTY, WHICH IS A CHHOTO LOCATED COMMUNITY HOUSING DEVELOPMENT ORGANIZATION LOCATED IN TARRANT COUNTY. THEY'RE THE OWNERSHIP STRUCTURE. THERE WAS PUBLIC COMMENT AND INTEREST FROM COUNCIL TO SEE AN OWNERSHIP STRUCTURE OR THE FINANCIAL BENEFITS OF THAT OWNERSHIP RETURNING TO DENTON, AS OPPOSED TO BEING WITH THE DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION OF TARRANT COUNTY BECAUSE OF WHERE WE ARE AT IN THE PROCESS FOR THEIR THEIR HOUSING RESERVATION, FOR THE TAX CREDIT RESERVATION, CHANGE IN OWNERSHIP STRUCTURE ISN'T REALLY POSSIBLE WITHOUT LOSING THE RESERVATION. SO AN AGREEMENT WAS

[04:50:03]

BRING SOME OF THOSE BENEFITS BACK. >> SO IF I COULD FOLLOW UP ON THAT, WHAT WHAT DOES THAT MEAN IN TERMS OF REGIONALITY DENT COUNTY VERSUS TARRANT COUNTY?

>> REGIONALITY. >> I MEAN, WHAT DOES IT MEAN IN TERMS OF KEEPING THE VALUE LOCAL

AS OPPOSED TO HAVING THE VALUE IN TARRANT COUNTY? >> SO THE, THE VALUE OF, OF THE PROPERTY ITSELF STILL REMAINS HERE IN DENTON, THE VALUE OF BRINGING IN ALL THOSE FEDERAL FUNDS TO HELP RENOVATE THE PROPERTY STILL REMAIN IN DENTON. BUT THE DEAL BETWEEN THE DEVELOPER AND DCTC THAT STILL IS GOING TO STAND BECAUSE THE OWNERSHIP STRUCTURE CAN'T CHANGE AT THIS POINT WITH THC RULES. SO WHATEVER THE SPECIFICS OF THAT AGREEMENT ARE WILL STILL BE IN EFFECT. WE'RE LOOKING TO SEE A PORTION OF KIND OF WHAT THE BENEFIT IS OF THAT FROM TO DCTC COME BACK TO DAK. SO I DON'T HAVE THE SPECIFICS OF THAT DEAL. STAFF WOULD LOOK TO DO AN ISR TO COUNCIL TO PROVIDE KIND OF SOME MORE INFORMATION ABOUT HOW THOSE AGREEMENTS ARE FINALIZED. BUT AT

THIS TIME THERE IS NO FINALIZED AGREEMENT FOR THAT. >> SO LAST THING, AND I APPRECIATE YOU WALKING ME THROUGH THIS BECAUSE I WASN'T HERE AT THE LAST MEETING AND I'M KIND OF PLAYING CATCH UP A LITTLE BIT. SO, YOU KNOW, SOMEWHERE SOUTH OF 100%. BUT WE'RE NOT CLEAR ON HOW MUCH OF, OF THE, OF THE PORTION WILL BE DCTC VERSUS DAK. THAT'S THAT'S

WHAT I'M HEARING. YES SIR. OKAY. THANK YOU. >> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF

OKAY. REPRESENTATIVE DISTRICT SIX. >> THANK YOU, COUNCILPERSON JESTER. AND THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR PRESENTATION. I WAS WONDERING IF YOU WOULDN'T MIND GOING BACK. THERE'S A MAP THAT YOU HAVE WITH THE SUBJECT PROPERTY. WHAT DO THE RED DOTS

REPRESENT? >> YES, MA'AM. THESE ARE OTHER LIGHT TECH PROPERTIES. SO THOSE THE ONES WITH THE SMALLER DOTS INSIDE THEM ARE 9% HOUSING TAX CREDIT PROPERTIES. THE ONES WITH

THE JUST THE RED DOTS ARE 4%. >> OKAY. BECAUSE AT FIRST I WASN'T SURE IF THEY WERE ALL ASKING FOR THE REHAB FUNDING OR JUST OKAY, WHO DECIDES THE TERM AS FAR AS HOW LONG THE THEY HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THE CERTAIN AFFORDABLE HOUSING RULES AND HOW LONG THEY GET THE TAX CREDIT? DO WE HAVE ANY SAY IN THAT, OR IS THAT COMPLETELY BETWEEN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AGENCY AND THE DEVELOPER? AND WE JUST SAY YAY OR NAY AS FAR AS WHETHER WE OBJECT OR DON'T OBJECT?

>> YES, MA'AM. THAT'S CORRECT. SO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SETS THE TERMS OF THE LIGHT TECH PROGRAM AS THE CITY AND CITY COUNCIL, WITH THE RULES THAT ARE SET BY THE STATE FOR HOW THOSE THINGS ARE ALLOCATED. THE CITY COUNCIL OFFERS SUPPORT OR RESOLUTIONS OF NO OBJECTION.

>> AND THIS PROPOSAL IS 30 YEARS. IS THAT CORRECT? >> IT'S A, I BELIEVE, A 15 YEAR COMMITMENT FROM THE IRS, AT WHICH POINT THEY TURN IT OVER TO THE STATE OF TEXAS AND THEY

ENSURE THAT THE ADDITIONAL 15 YEARS, SO 30 YEARS IN TOTAL. >> BUT 30 YEARS WITH THE TAX CREDIT THAT THEN WOULDN'T COME TO THE CITY OF DENTON. JUST MAKING SURE I'M CLEAR.

>> SO THE TAX CREDIT AND THE OWNERSHIP ARE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT. THE OWNERSHIP WOULD REMAIN FOR THE DURATION OF THE OWNERSHIP PERIOD BECAUSE IT IS SHARED WITH THAT. THE TAX CREDIT ITSELF IS DOLED OUT OVER A PERIOD OF I THINK IT'S TEN YEARS, IF THAT MAKES SENSE.

>> AND THEN THAT ROLLS OFF AND WE RECEIVE THE FULL AS FAR AS THE CITY'S PORTION OF THE TAXES.

>> THAT'S THAT'S NOT A THAT'S NOT A TAX EXEMPTION. THAT'S JUST A THE CREDIT THE CREDIT ROLLS OFF IS WHAT'S SET BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. THE EXEMPTION COMES FROM THE OWNERSHIP OF THE

PROPERTY, WHICH WOULD REMAIN UNTIL THE OWNERSHIP CHANGED. >> OKAY.

>> I REALLY APPRECIATE IT. >> THANK YOU. YES, MA'AM. >> OKAY. ANY ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? OKAY. WE HAVE TWO SPEAKERS. FIRST IS CARRIE. BANKS. I THINK YOU CAN COME DOWN AND GIVE YOUR NAME. YOU'LL HAVE. THREE MINUTES. I THINK THAT'S RIGHT.

>> I'M CARRIE. >> BOGGESS WITH DENTON. >> AFFORDABLE HOUSING

CORPORATION. >> I THINK, YOU KNOW, REALLY THE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO FOCUS ON IS THAT THIS IS A SENIOR PROPERTY WITH PRETTY DEEPLY AFFORDABLE HOUSING AVAILABLE. IT TAKES A MINIMUM OF TWO YEARS TO GET THESE TYPE OF PROPERTIES ON THE GROUND. THIS IS EXISTING AFFORDABLE HOUSING THAT WE HAVE. AND SO, YOU KNOW, I WOULD ENCOURAGE COUNCIL TO APPROVE THIS SO THAT WE CAN KEEP THOSE UNITS AND HAVE THOSE UNITS FOR A POPULATION THAT WE'RE SEEING A GROWTH IN RIGHT NOW. SO, YOU KNOW, WE REALLY NEED THE SENIOR PROPERTIES. WE NEED THE AFFORDABILITY. AND YOU KNOW, I JUST WE OBVIOUSLY WANT TO KEEP AS MUCH OF THE MONEY HERE IN DENTON AS POSSIBLE WHEN WE CAN. BUT I THINK THAT THE AFFORDABLE UNITS ARE IMPORTANT.

[04:55:05]

>> THANK YOU. NEXT SPEAKER, CHARLIE PRICE, COME DOWN AND GIVE YOUR NAME. YOU HAVE THREE

MINUTES. >> CHARLIE PRICE, WITH THE DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION.

>> OF TARRANT COUNTY AND THE STATE OF TEXAS. WE'RE BASICALLY A HOMEGROWN NONPROFIT IN TARRANT COUNTY. WE STARTED THE TARRANT COUNTY COMMISSIONERS BECAUSE WE WERE TIRED OF OUT OF STATE COMING TO TOWN. AND WE HAVE GROWN OVER THE YEARS, AND NOW WE'RE INTO THIS TYPE OF BUSINESS. I'VE KNOWN OF DENTON AFFORDABLE DAC FOR A LONG TIME, AND THEY'VE KNOWN THAT I HAVE OFFERED TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE, AND I WILL CONTINUE TO OFFER TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE TILL THEY CAN DO THIS BY THEMSELVES. AND THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO DO HERE. OKAY. OUR BOARD IS REALLY WE ZERO IN ON CONTINUING AFFORDABILITY BECAUSE IF THESE GO AWAY THE UNITS ARE NO LONGER AFFORDABLE. SO THAT'S WHY WE'RE INVOLVED OKAY. AND WE HAVE THE WHEREWITHAL TO DO THAT. AND WE HAVE THE TRACK RECORD OF DOING IT. SO THAT'S WHY WE'RE INVOLVED. WE'RE GOING TO DO A COOPERATION AGREEMENT WITH DAC. I'M SITTING ON THE BOARD OF THE TEXAS ASSOCIATION OF COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT CORPORATIONS. ANYBODY ON THAT? THAT WHOLE GROUP WILL UNDERSTAND THAT. WHEN I SAY SOMETHING, I DO IT AND I WILL HELP THEM AND THEY WILL THEY WILL GET INTO THIS SPACE

SOONER THAN LATER. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? ALL RIGHT.

JESSE, CAN YOU YOU PROVIDED STAFF PROVIDED THIS REPORT? YES, SIR. MY UNDERSTANDING BASED ON THE REPORT IS THAT WE ARE MEETING OR EXCEEDING OUR GOAL ON MULTIFAMILY. BUT CORRECT ME

WHERE I'M WRONG. >> THAT'S CORRECT. SIR. >> YEAH. SO WE'RE AT OUR GOAL.

AND SO THEN. SO THAT'S THE GOAL RIGHT. SO THAT'S WHAT WE SET OUT. THAT'S OUR TARGET AND WE'RE HITTING OUR TARGET. THEN MY UNDERSTANDING OF MOST CREDITS NOT TO APPLY TO ALL, BUT JUST MY UNDERSTANDING IS THE CREDITS ARE USED TO OFFSET THE COST TO BUILD MORE AFFORDABLE UNITS, WORKFORCE HOUSING, ALL THOSE THINGS. SO THE CREDITS ARE USED TO THAT. IT'S NEW TO ME, AND PROBABLY JUST NAIVE TO SAY THAT WE'RE USING THIS TO MAINTAIN SOMETHING. SO MY QUESTION IS WHAT IS THE UNIT MIX CURRENTLY THAT'S APPROVED? WHEN IT COMES TO PERCENTAGE OF AM I.

>> SO THE UNIT MIX IS SET TO REMAIN THE SAME. IT'S 23% AT 50% AND 77% AT 60%.

>> AMI CURRENTLY RIGHT NOW. >> YES, SIR. >> OR THAT THE APPLICATION.

>> IT'S GOING TO RETAIN ITS IT'S AFFORDABILITY STRUCTURE. >> RIGHT. AND SO WHEN I LOOK AT THAT WE'RE LOSING 4%, WHICH I THINK BY STAFF'S ESTIMATION IS ABOUT $50,000 IN TAX EACH YEAR.

>> THE 50% EXEMPTION FROM THE PROPERTY OWNERSHIP. YES, SIR. >> OKAY. AND BUT THE RATES ARE I MEAN, AM I LOOKING AT THIS RIGHT. THE RATES ARE THE RENT RANGE. THERE IS BASICALLY 1200

TO 1400. >> THE RENT RANGE FOR THE INDIVIDUAL UNITS.

>> YES. IS THAT WHAT I'M LOOKING AT ON THIS ON THE SHEET. >> THAT THAT IS THE NUMBER OF

PROPERTIES THAT ARE IN THOSE, THOSE DIFFERENT THINGS. >> RIGHT. AND THE LAST COLUMN SAYS RENT RANGE OF UNITS. YES SIR. AND SO THAT'S THE UNIT PER UNIT COST THAT APPLYING AFTER

THE 50 OR 60% OR BEFORE. >> THAT'S WHAT THE RANGE WOULD BE FOR THOSE, THOSE UNITS.

>> RIGHT. SO YEAH I, I JUST I DON'T SEE ANYTHING COMPELLING HERE. I KNOW PEOPLE CAN CAN DISAGREE. BUT FOR ME PERSONALLY WE'RE EXCEEDING OUR, OUR MIX OF MULTIFAMILY. I HEAR REGULARLY FROM PEOPLE THAT THEY ARE FRUSTRATED WITH THE AMOUNT OF MULTIFAMILY. I COULD SEE THESE ALREADY BUILT. AND ANOTHER THING CAN SOMEONE STEP ME THROUGH IS THIS IS THE IS THE PROPERTY PURCHASED? HAS HAS OWNERSHIP OF THE PROPERTY CHANGED HANDS OR IS IT CONTINGENT ON THIS?

>> I DON'T KNOW THAT IF IT'S CHANGED HANDS ALREADY OR IF IT'S CONTINGENT UPON THIS, BUT THE I THINK THE OWNERSHIP IS REMAINING THE SAME WITH WITH APRIL HOUSING, BUT THERE'S JUST A

DIFFERENT ENTITY THAT'S GOING TO BE CREATED LIKE A LEGAL ENTITY. >> WELL, LET ME LET ME DIRECT YOU TO SOMETHING. AND YOU, YOU HELP ME UNDERSTAND IT. SURE. ON THE IN THE BACKUP. SO THIS IS

[05:00:01]

14.

>> I'M FLIPPING THROUGH THE BACKUP OF THE APPLICATION NOW. >> YES. IT'S THE. YEAH. THAT EXHIBIT THREE APPLICATION FOR RESOLUTION OF NO OBJECTION. AND THEN IT'S PAGE 14 OF 21. AND THE TITLE OF THE DOCUMENT IS WATERFORD SPENCER OAKS DEVELOPMENT BUDGET.

>> YES, SIR. >> OKAY. SO WHEN I'M LOOKING AT THIS IT SAYS TOTAL ACQUISITION COST $30 MILLION, BASICALLY $31 MILLION. ROUNDING UP. WHAT IS THAT.

>> THE COST OF THE EXIT. YEAH. SPEAK TO. >> BRAD FISHER WITH APRIL HOUSING. THANK YOU. SO THAT IS THAT IS THE ACQUISITION PRICE SET BY THIRD PARTY APPRAISAL

THAT WE'RE, WE'RE REQUIRED TO DO BY TD HCA. >> SO THAT'S THE VALUE OF THE

PROPERTY. >> THAT'S AT WE HAVE TO GET APPRAISAL APPRAISED VALUE OF

THAT PROPERTY OKAY. >> SO THEN I'M GOING TO GO DOWN TO. THE BOTTOM OF THAT SAME COLUMN. TOTAL PROJECT COST 78 MILLION. ROUND NUMBER 79 MILLION. YES, SIR. SO HELP ME UNDERSTAND THAT. AND SO JUST ABOVE THAT CASH COLLATERAL ACCOUNT, THERE'S 30, 37 MILLION IN AND THEN THERE'S 37 THAT SAME 37 MILLION OUT. SO IS THAT ARE THEY TAKEN OUT OR IS SOMEONE

TAKEN OUT EQUITY. >> SO YEAH, LET ME EXPLAIN THAT A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE IT'S KIND OF THE BLOND I WANT TO GO BACK AND TOUCH ON YOUR POINT ABOUT OWNERSHIP. SO AS PART OF THE TDHCA PROCESS, WE HAVE TO SET UP A NEW, NEW OWNERSHIP. THAT'S THE LP WE HAVE IN THE RESOLUTION. SO THAT NEW OWNERSHIP INCORPORATES THE OTHER PARTIES. YOU BEEN UP HERE TONIGHT. SO I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY THAT FOR THE GROUP. AND AS FAR AS THIS THAT REALLY REPRESENTS THE BONDS. SO WE HAVE TO GET BONDS. PART OF THE 4% BOND TAX CREDIT PROGRAM. IS THAT THE AS THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE THE BONDS FINANCE AT LEAST 50% OF THE PROJECT COST. SO THOSE ARE BASICALLY AT THAT TIME REPRESENT THE BONDS COMING INTO THE PROJECT AND THEN GOING BACK OUT. SO WHAT HAPPENS TO THE BONDS IS WE USE THOSE AND IN TEXAS WE HAVE TO CASH COLLATERALIZE THOSE. SO WE HAVE TO TAKE OUT LIKE A CONSTRUCTION LOAN OR OTHER BRIDGE AS WE TAKE THAT OUT. SO IT ALL MEETS THE 50% TEST FOR THE BONDS. AND THEN BASICALLY AT THE END OF THE DAY, THOSE ARE EITHER REPAID WHEN OUR EQUITY TAX CREDIT EQUITY COMES IN FROM OUR PRIVATE EQUITY PARTNER. AND THEN A PORTION OF IT REMAINS AS A AS THE HARD DEBT, THE MORTGAGE FOR THE PROPERTY.

>> SO NO ONE'S TAKING EQUITY OUT. >> SO THERE'S THERE THERE IS EQUITY COMING OUT. BUT WE'RE REINVESTING RIGHT NOW. THIS ONE'S A LITTLE BIT OLD, BUT WE'RE REINVESTING ABOUT $17 MILLION BACK INTO THE PROPERTY AND BACK INTO THE COMMUNITY. AND ALSO AS PART OF THAT CAPITAL STACK. WE HAVE A DEVELOPER FEE, BUT WE'RE ALSO DEFERRING ABOUT 8 MILLION OF THAT DEVELOPER FEE, WHICH GETS PAID OUT OVER THE 15 YEAR COMPLIANCE PERIOD, PENDING CASH FLOWS AND HOW THE PROPERTY OPERATES. SO THAT'S THAT'S A BIT OF RISK FOR US. BUT WE FEEL STRONGLY ABOUT THIS COMMUNITY AND FEEL LIKE THAT INVESTMENT IS WORTH IT HERE TO REHAB THESE THESE UNITS AND REALLY BRING UP THESE TO THE TOP OF THE MARKET FOR EVERYBODY AND NEW AMENITIES

AND NEW FINISHES HVAC. YEAH. >> SO WE I'M TRYING TO JUST STEP THROUGH IT. RIGHT. I'M YOU KNOW

YEAH. SO 17 MILLION GOING TO WHAT. >> THAT THAT'S 17 MILLION IS GETTING REINVESTED INTO THE PROPERTY AS A SELLER. NO SELLER FINANCING.

>> REINVESTED IS IN HARD LIKE HARD COSTS LIKE IMPROVEMENTS ETC.

>> ETC. AS PART OF THE CAPITAL STACK. OKAY. GOT ABOUT RIGHT NOW WE'RE ABOUT 18 MILLION OF HARD COSTS. IT'S A LITTLE BIT THIS ONE'S A LITTLE BIT, A LITTLE BIT. WE ACTUALLY HAS GONE UP TO ABOUT 90 MILLION. WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME GOING THROUGH THE PROPERTIES. I MEAN, NOT 90, 90,000 A UNIT. SORRY. SO IT'S ABOUT 18 MILLION FOR THE HARD CONSTRUCTION COSTS RIGHT NOW.

>> SO HOW MUCH EQUITY ARE YOU TAKING OUT OR SOMEONE TAKING OUT OR COMING OUT OF THE PROJECT?

[05:05:03]

>> THAT'S ALL IN THE WORKS RIGHT NOW. I DON'T KNOW THAT NUMBER OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD. WE'RE NEGOTIATING WITH OUR EQUITY PARTNERS, SO THINGS ARE MOVING AROUND.

>> WHAT'S THE WHAT'S HOW MUCH IS MOVING AROUND THAT'S SUBJECT TO BE TAKEN OUT?

>> I DON'T KNOW, OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD FOR THAT. >> SO IT'S WHO KNOWS HOW MUCH IS

MOVING AROUND. >> BUT THAT'S THE EQUITY. JUST I JUST IT'S MOVING AROUND BECAUSE WE'RE STILL NEGOTIATING ALL OF OUR, OUR TRANSACTIONS. WE WON'T KNOW UNTIL UNTIL WE GET TO THE

END OF THE DAY 100%. >> I'M JUST ASKING. SO OUR TOTAL BUDGET IS $2.3 BILLION. NOW THAT'S ALL GOING TO MOVE AROUND. AND WE'RE GOING TO APPLY THAT TO THE RIGHT THINGS. BUT I KNOW THE TOP LINE NUMBER. SO WE'RE WE'RE ACCOUNTING FOR 17 MILLION. I'M ASKING YOU HOW MUCH IS AVAILABLE

TO BE MOVED AROUND. >> THERE'S STILL WE'RE STILL WE'RE STILL GETTING THERE'S, YOU KNOW, EXISTING DEBT. WE STILL HAVE TO PAY OFF EXISTING BONDS. WE STILL HAVE TO PAY OFF.

>> I UNDERSTAND I UNDERSTAND THAT IT HAS TO GO TO SOMETHING. I'M JUST ASKING YOU THAT TOP

LINE NUMBER. >> YEAH, I DON'T KNOW THAT OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD.

>> INTERESTING. OKAY. YEAH, WELL, I'LL JUST TELL YOU, I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT. I HAVE A

REAL PROBLEM WITH. >> THAT WE'RE MAKING. YEAH, I UNDERSTAND.

>> YOUR POINT. YOU SHOULD. I SHOULD THIS I BELIEVE EVERYBODY SHOULD WANT TO KNOW, BUT MAYBE THEY DON'T. I PERSONALLY CANNOT I'M NOT I'M NOT BESMIRCHING ANYBODY. I'M JUST SAYING.

UNDERSTANDING THE LAST MEETING. WHAT'S COME BACK IS WE'RE GOING TO CREATE SOME TYPE OF AGREEMENT FOR SOME SORT OF MONEY TO STAY IN DENTON. BUT WE DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH THAT IS. AND THEN WE HAVE $17 MILLION THAT IS ACCOUNTED FOR. BUT THE REST OF IT, WE DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH THAT IS. AND THEN WE DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH IS OUTSIDE OF THE 17 MILLION. THERE'S JUST ALL I MEAN, SO WHEN BEFORE WE WERE SAYING, HEY, WE'RE CURIOUS ABOUT THESE THINGS AND WE WANT TO TRY TO KEEP IT IN DENTON NOW AGAIN, PEOPLE CAN OVERLOOK THAT. AND THAT'S EVERYONE HAS THEIR DECISION TO MAKE. I'M TELLING YOU, I CAN'T GET ON BOARD BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE THIS BLIND CORNER. I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH IS STAYING IN DENTON. I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH IS GOING OUTSIDE OF DENTON. I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH IS UNACCOUNTED FOR. YOU HAVE THIS HUGE SPREADSHEET THAT SHOULD TELL.

YOU SHOULD INFORM. JUST LIKE YOU SAID, THE 19 MILLION HAS CHANGED A LITTLE BIT. IT HAS EVERYTHING LINED OUT HERE. IT HAS SOFT COSTS, IT HAS EVERYTHING. AND YOU CAN'T GIVE ME A NUMBER THAT SAYS ALL IN, HERE'S WHAT'S AVAILABLE. AND WE'RE TRYING TO SIFT THAT OUT OR THAT'S GOING TO HAVE COST. I GET IT. YOU'RE JUST TRYING TO MOVE YOUR PROJECT ALONG. BUT I HAVE TO WHEN I'M AT KROGER, I GOT TO ANSWER QUESTIONS AND I CANNOT ANSWER QUESTIONS ON. SOMEONE COMES TO ME AND SAYS, YOU GAVE AWAY $50,000 OF MY TAX MONEY. YOU THEN ALSO AREN'T FUNDING THINGS.

YOU'RE TELLING ME YOU'RE IN A TIGHT BUDGET CRISIS, BUT YOU GAVE AWAY $50,000? TO WHAT END? NOW I GET IT. YOU'RE SAYING WE KNOW WE'RE TRYING TO SAVE RATES WHERE THEY ARE. I'M NOT CRAZY ABOUT THE THAT THAT THAT PERCENTAGE. FULL DISCLOSURE. THERE'S NOTHING IN THE 30%.

THERE'S NOTHING 40%. AND SO I'M NOT CRAZY ABOUT THAT. BUT OKAY. LET'S SEE PAST THAT I CAN'T ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS BECAUSE YOU IT'S STILL GETTING WORKED OUT. SO I, I'M GOING TO BE A NO.

AND I'D WELCOME YOU BACK ONCE YOU FIGURE IT OUT OR ONCE YOU CAN GIVE ME THAT NUMBER. BUT YOU MAY YOU MAY HAVE THE VOTES YOU NEED AND YOU CAN GO ON WITH YOUR PROJECT. AND THOSE PEOPLE CAN ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS AT KROGER. I JUST I DON'T I NEED CERTAINLY BEFORE I GIVE YOU 4% CREDIT AND $50,000 OUT OF OUR TAXPAYER MONEY, I NEED TO KNOW HOW MUCH YOU'RE TAKING. LIKE HOW MUCH IS HOW MUCH EQUITY IS BEING PULLED OUT THAT SHOULD BE KNOWN. THAT ABSOLUTELY SHOULD BE KNOWN.

SO THE FACT THAT IT'S NOT GIVES ME MAJOR CONCERN. SO BUT THANK YOU VERY MUCH I APPRECIATE IT.

WE REPRESENTATIVE FROM DISTRICT FIVE. YES SIR. YES, SIR. >> THANK YOU. AND KEEPING IN KEEPING WITH CONSISTENCY IS NOT THE MOTION. I WILL BE MOTIONING APPROVAL OF THIS BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT WE STILL EXIST IN A HOUSING CRISIS. THE CONVERSATION WE HAD A COUPLE WEEKS AGO WAS VERY TELLING. HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE CURRENTLY STAYING IN THE AFFORDABLE UNITS AT THIS

PROPERTY, OFF THE TOP OF YOUR HEAD, DO YOU REMEMBER. >> IT'S A 208 UNITS. I DON'T

KNOW EXACTLY THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE. >> THERE ARE TWO AND THREE

BEDROOM. >> THERE ARE TWO AND THREE BEDROOMS, SO PROBABLY AROUND 4

OR 500 RESIDENTS. BUT A LOT OF THEM. >> GOT TO BE CLOSER TO THE MIC

PLEASE. >> I'M SORRY SIR, PROBABLY YOU KNOW THEY'RE TWO AND THREE BEDROOM UNITS SO PROBABLY, YOU KNOW, SAY THREE PEOPLE PER EACH. SO SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 5 OR 600

UNITS OR 5 OR 600 PEOPLE. >> LET'S SAY ON THE LOW END, LET'S SAY FIVE. THANK YOU FOR

[05:10:02]

THAT'S WRONG. THAT'S NOT HOW WE SHOULD TREAT PEOPLE. I RESPECT THAT SOME OF US GET ASKED ABOUT AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN KROGER. THAT'S NOT AN EXPERIENCE I HAVE. THE EXPERIENCE I HAVE IS PEOPLE ASKING FOR MORE AFFORDABLE HOUSING. BUT FAIR ENOUGH, PEOPLE COULD ASK ABOUT AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN KROGER. THE RESPONSE SHOULD BE THAT WE'RE DOING EVERYTHING WE CAN TO CREATE MORE AFFORDABLE HOUSING. WHY? BECAUSE THESE PEOPLE LIVE HERE AND THEY WORK HERE, AND THEY SPEND ALL OF THEIR RESOURCES HERE IN THIS CITY. THIS CITY HAS TO WORK FOR EVERYBODY. WE SHOULDN'T TURN INTO OTHER CITIES IN OUR COMMUNITY, IN OUR IN OUR DFW WHO DON'T HAVE AN AVAILABILITY OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING. AGAIN, WE'RE NOT NECESSARILY IN CHARGE OF THE TAX CREDIT PART. ALL WE'RE DOING IS SAYING THAT WE DO NOT OPPOSE THIS GROUP GOING TO GET TAX CREDITS THAT ARE NOT COMING FROM US, THAT ARE ALREADY GUARANTEED, THAT ARE ALREADY GUARANTEED FOR THEM TO SEEK. THEY SHOULD HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT. AGAIN, IT'S NOT ABOUT THEM. IT'S ABOUT THE 500 PEOPLE YOU SAID THAT ARE ALREADY LIVING HERE. THAT'S WHY WE SHOULD BE APPROVING THIS. THE CONVERSATION ABOUT HOW MUCH EQUITY IS IN IT, THAT'S GREAT. AT THIS POINT, IT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE AGAIN LAST WEEK WE LEARNED THAT THEY'RE JUST GOING TO RAISE THE RENT. THAT'S WHAT THIS COMES DOWN TO. DOES THIS COUNCIL WANT TO LET THESE FOLKS RAISE THE RENT ON PEOPLE WHO QUALIFY FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING OR NOT? IT'S A VERY SIMPLE QUESTION. I'M ALWAYS GOING TO SIDE ON THE NO ON THAT. I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING HOW WE HOW WE HOW WE VOTE ON THAT. BUT WITH THAT, I MOTION

APPROVAL FOR A LETTER OF NOT OBJECTING. THANK YOU. >> MAYOR PRO TEM.

>> BUILDING ON SOME OF THAT, WHAT I APPRECIATE ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR. PROJECT IS THAT IT'S 5060 AMI AND NOT 80, WHICH IS A LOT OF WHAT WE'VE SEEN, WHICH IS BASICALLY MARKET RENT IN DENTON.

YOU CAN BUILD AN APARTMENT AT 80% AMI. SO I DO REALLY APPRECIATE IT THAT IT'S A LITTLE BIT DEEPER. AND I MEAN, WHETHER THIS GETS REHABBED OR NOT, IT EXPIRES NEXT YEAR AND THE RENT WILL GO UP WHETHER OR NOT IT GETS REHABBED ONCE THAT EXPIRES. SO THIS MAKES SURE THAT WE'RE LOCKING IT IN FOR ANOTHER FEW DECADES AT THE 5,060% AMI IN TERMS OF THE 50,000 PER YEAR, I DIVIDED THAT BY THE NUMBER OF UNITS IT WAS ABOUT. IT'S ABOUT $240 PER UNIT EVERY YEAR. DENTON IS NOT GETTING NOTHING OUT OF THAT. I LOOKED AT THE MARKET RATE FOR A TWO AND THREE BEDROOM RENT IN DENTON, AND I LOOKED AT THE RENT THAT THIS PROPERTY WILL HAVE, AND IT'S AT LEAST 240 LESS THAN THE MARKET RENT. SO YOU KNOW, IT'S LOOKS PRETTY ONE FOR ONE TO ME IN TERMS OF THAT RESPECT. SO THE PEOPLE OF DENTON DENTON RESIDENTS ARE GETTING A BENEFIT BY HAVING SOME AVAILABLE UNITS AT THE 5,060% AMI. AND YOU KNOW, THE CITY LOSS OF TAXES ON THAT IS ABOUT ONE FOR ONE IN TERMS OF THE AMOUNT OF RENT THAT IT IS LOWER THAN, THAN MARKET RENT. SO IT LOOKS LIKE A PRETTY EVEN TO ME. AND I ALSO WANT TO KEEP THESE ONLINE AS, AS AFFORDABLE UNITS AS WELL. AND I THINK THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT, ESPECIALLY AT THE 5060. I'D LOVE TO SEE MORE 30S AT SOME POINT,

BUT I'M GOING TO SECOND THIS MOTION. >> OKAY. WE HAVE A MOTION A SECOND. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? I JUST I WANT TO I HAVE TO I FEEL COMPELLED TO DOUBLE DOWN AND SAY, WE HAVE A STUDY. AND OFTENTIMES PEOPLE REFER TO STUDIES. AND THE STUDY SAYS WE'RE AHEAD OF PACE ON WHAT WE NEED. AND THEN I'VE NOT HEARD ANYONE, ANYONE ASSOCIATED WITH THE PROJECT THAT WANTS TO COME UP HERE AND DEFINITIVELY SAY YOU'RE GOING TO RAISE RENTS. IF

[05:15:03]

>> WELL, I CAN'T SAY DEFINITIVELY ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, I CAN SAY THAT THESE UNITS WILL LOSE THEIR THEIR RESTRICTIONS ON AFFORDABILITY. THAT'S WHAT WILL HAPPEN. AND IT'S NOT YOU KNOW, THAT'S NOT MY DECISION. BUT I KNOW I KNOW WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE AFFORDABILITY

EXPIRES. >> BUT. SO I DIDN'T ASK YOU TO COME BACK UP. YOU VOLUNTEERED FOR THIS. SO HERE WE GO AGAIN THOUGH IT GOES BACK TO THE EQUITY. COULD THE EQUITY THAT YOU HAVE BE REINVESTED AND KEEP THEM AT AFFORDABLE RATES. COULD IT.

>> WELL I THAT'S I DON'T KNOW IT'S HYPOTHETICAL I DON'T KNOW. >> RIGHT. WELL IT'S ALSO HYPOTHETICAL THAT YOU'RE GOING TO RAISE RENTS. SO YOU'RE OKAY WITH THAT HYPOTHETICAL. YOU'RE NOT OKAY WITH MY HYPOTHETICAL. YOU CAME UP HERE, RIGHT? LIKE I WAS TRYING TO LET.

>> YOU GO. TRYING TO EXPLAIN. YES, TRYING TO EXPLAIN THE PROCESS, THAT'S ALL.

>> BUT DO YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH HYPOTHETICALS? >> YEAH. I MEAN, I'M NOT GOING TO SPEAK TO ANY MORE HYPOTHETICALS, BUT I JUST THAT ALL I WAS GOING TO SAY IS THAT IF THE RENTS, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S NOT EXTENDED AFFORDABILITY RESTRICTIONS EXPIRE.

>> THAT'S ALL RIGHT. >> THANK YOU. SO IT COULD FULLY MAINTAIN THE SAME RENTS. WE DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH EQUITY IS IN IT. I THINK THAT'S A HUGE DISSERVICE TO THE PEOPLE THAT WE HAVE TO ANSWER TO. IRRESPECTIVE OF WHEREVER YOU SIDE ON THIS. IF CITY STAFF CAME TO US WITH THIS INFORMATION AND SAID WE HAVE AN UNDISCLOSED, WE HAVE A DEFINED PROJECT THAT WE DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH IS GOING TO STAY IN DENTON. WE DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH IS GOING TO LEAVE IN DENTON. WE DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH MONEY WE'RE GOING TO MAKE. WE DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH MONEY WE'RE GOING TO LOSE.

PLEASE VOTE YES. WE WOULDN'T PUT UP WITH THAT. I'M JUST TRYING TO HAVE THE SAME STANDARD. THERE'S JUST TOO MANY GAPS AND I, I'VE NOT HEARD ANY TESTIMONY FROM ANYBODY ASSOCIATED WITH THE PROJECT THAT SAID RATES WILL DEFINITIVELY GO UP. AND SO I REJECT THAT NOTION FROM THE DAIS, FROM PEOPLE THAT WOULD JUST OPINE ON THOSE THINGS WITHOUT SUBSTANTIVE INFORMATION, WITHOUT SUBSTANTIVE DATA. SO I REJECT THOSE THOUGHTS. I THINK THEY CAN TAKE THE EQUITY THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE AND PUT IT BACK INTO THE PUT IT BACK IN THOSE UNITS AND MAINTAIN THAT UNTIL TOLD OTHERWISE. SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WE HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE. WE HAVE A SECOND VOTE ON THE SCREEN. YES. MAYOR PRO TEM. AND THAT PASSES 6 TO 1. THAT TAKES US TO OUR THAT'S ITEM A. SO WE GOT TO DO ITEM B LET'S SAY. SO SAME MOVEMENT. LET'S SAY MOVED BY COUNCIL MEMBER MCGEE.

SECOND BY MAYOR PRO TEM. AND ONCE THAT'S SET WE'LL VOTE ON THE SCREEN. AND THIS WOULD BE B.

VOTE ON THE SCREEN. THAT PASSES 6 TO 1 AS WELL. THAT THAT TAKES US TO ITEM C WHICH IS FIVE C.

[C. Consider adoption of an ordinance of the City of Denton, Texas, updating impact fees by amending Article VI “Impact Fees” of Chapter 26, “Utilities,” Sections 26-213, 26-216 through 26-222, and Section 26-228 of the City of Denton Code of Ordinances; adopting revised land use assumptions and capital improvements plans for water and wastewater impact fees; establishing new service areas for water and wastewater impact fees; establishing new maximum impact fees per service unit and impact fees to be collected; revising provisions for the assessment and collection of impact fees; repealing conflicting ordinances and resolutions; providing severability and penalty clauses; and providing an effective date.]

THROUGH 26. DASH 222. >> GOOD EVENING. MAYOR CITY COUNCIL STEVEN GAY, GENERAL MANAGER, WATER, UTILITIES AND STREET OPERATIONS. I'M HERE TONIGHT REQUESTING APPROVAL FOR FROM CITY COUNCIL TO UPDATE THE WATER AND WASTEWATER IMPACT FEES. BRIEF HISTORY ON OUR TIMELINE. WE HAVE PRESENTED THE PUBLIC UTILITIES BOARD BACK IN OCTOBER, WE HAD A DEVELOPER MEETING AGAIN IN IN JULY. WE SOUGHT COUNCIL DIRECTION IN JULY, ON JULY 16TH, AND IN FEBRUARY AND JUNE WE PRESENTED TO THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT ADVISORY COMMITTEE. IN MARCH AND JULY. WE ALSO HAD HELD SOME DEVELOPER TOWN HALLS TO HEAR SOME INPUT FROM THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY. ON JUNE 25TH, THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT ADVISORY COMMITTEE VOTED SIX ZERO,

[05:20:06]

WE SELECTED THESE CITIES BECAUSE THEY'RE EXPERIENCING SOME OF THE SAME CHALLENGES RAPID GROWTH, NEED FOR EXTENSIVE INFRASTRUCTURE. AND THIS IS WHERE THE 75% COST RECOVERY KIND OF LINES UP, KEEPING US COMPETITIVE WITH GEORGE, GEORGETOWN, PFLUGERVILLE AND NEW BRAUNFELS. SO STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION IS THE DIVISION OF A SINGLE WASTEWATER SERVICE AREA INTO THE PECAN CREEK OR CLEAR CREEK, PECAN CREEK, AND HICKORY CREEK SERVICE AREAS.

ADOPTION OF A MINIMUM. THE MAXIMUM IMPACT FEE AS 75% OF THE VALUE PRESENTED IN THE STUDY, AND THE VALUES ARE REFERENCED BELOW, AND AN IMPLEMENTATION DATE OF APRIL 1ST, 2026. AND THAT'S BASED OFF OF FEEDBACK THAT WE HEARD DURING THE PUBLIC HEARING. AND WITH THAT, I'LL

STAND FOR QUESTIONS. >> THANK YOU. QUESTIONS FOR STAFF. THANK YOU. REPRESENTATIVE

FROM DISTRICT TWO. >> THANK YOU. I KNOW THAT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE TALKED ABOUT IN PRIOR SESSIONS AND WORK SESSION WAS. THAT THE THAT WE NEEDED SUBSTANTIALLY MORE INFRASTRUCTURE IN THOSE CLEAR CREEK BASINS AND HICKORY CREEK BASINS. THAT WAS NEW, NON-EXISTENT, YOU KNOW, NEEDED TO BE ROLLED OUT. VERSUS MORE INCREMENTAL UPGRADES. AND THE CONCRETE AND FOR WATER ONE A. AND SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CONCERNS ME IS, YOU KNOW, WHERE.

ON THE RECOMMENDATION TO TAKE SOME OF THE WIFIA AND SWIFT AND OTHER SMART APPROACHES THAT YOUR DIVISION HAS BEEN USING TO ALREADY ENGAGE IN COST SAVINGS. POST FROM THE INITIAL COST OF SERVICE ANALYSIS. AND YOU'RE SAYING, WELL, WE WE'VE ALREADY BEEN MAKING THESE SMART DECISIONS. WE WILL SPREAD THAT OUT. BUT IT SO LET ME ASK A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS. IS IT TRUE THAT THAT SORT OF THE INCREMENTAL CHANGES IN THE CONCRETE BASIN WILL BE CHEAPER TO, TO DEVELOP THAN, THAN NEW FACILITIES. SO THAT I MEAN I'M RUNNING I'M, I'M DEVELOPING

[05:25:02]

BASIN THAN THE OTHER TWO? THAT'S THE FIRST HALF. >> OF MY COMPLICATED ANSWER, BECAUSE THE CONVEYANCE SYSTEM WITHIN THE BASIN NEEDS SUBSTANTIAL INVESTMENT TO ADD THE CAPACITY. SO IT'S NOT JUST THE PLANT ITSELF. IN ADDITION TO THAT, THE PLANT, THE DISCHARGE AT THAT SITE IS LIMITED TO 30 MILLION GALLONS A DAY PER T-C-E-Q THAT'S WHAT THE STREAM CAN HANDLE. WE'RE CURRENTLY AT 21 MILLION GALLONS A DAY, AND WE HAVE AN EXPANSION PROJECT UNDERWAY, WHICH IS GOING TO GET US TO THE 30. AND WE BELIEVE BY THE YEAR, I WANT TO SAY IT'S 2030, 2032, THAT 5 MILLION GALLONS A DAY WILL BE, I WOULD SAY, FULLY UTILIZED. SO WE HAVE TO. SO PART OF THE STRATEGY IN LOOKING AT THOSE DIFFERENT BASES WAS TO IDENTIFY ADDITIONAL DISCHARGE CAPACITY SO WE COULD WE COULD MANAGE MORE RESPONSIBLY, MANAGE THE GROWTH

IN IN THE CITY. >> SO I GUESS WHAT I'M SAYING IS TO GO FROM THE 21 TO THE 30 OR THE 50 PER GALLON, IS IT EASIER, MORE ECONOMICAL TO LEVERAGE OUR EXISTING INFRASTRUCTURE SO THAT ADDITIONAL DEVELOPMENT IN CONCRETE IS MORE BANG FOR THE BUCK FOR THE EXISTING RATEPAYERS, THE EXISTING PEOPLE? AS WE EXPAND THAT POTENTIAL VERSUS NON-EXISTENT PEOPLE IN THE NORTH AND THE SOUTHWEST THAT WE'RE ANTICIPATING GROWTH OR OR PARTIALLY EXISTENT PEOPLE AS WE ROLL OUT THOSE ADDITIONAL BASINS, IS THAT A MUCH LARGER INFRASTRUCTURE COST TO GET THOSE? THOSE PLANTS DON'T EXIST. SO GET THOSE NEW PLANTS OFF THE GROUND VERSUS EXPANDING THE

EXISTING. >> PLANT, NOT NECESSARILY BECAUSE PART OF THE PROCESS, WE DID A CONDITION ASSESSMENT OF THE CONCRETE AND THE EXISTING PLANT ITSELF NEEDS SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF REINVESTMENT TO KEEP IT OPERATING. SO THAT FACILITY WAS ORIGINALLY CONSTRUCTED, I WANT TO SAY IT WAS IN 1961, AND IT HAS SIGNIFICANT NEED FOR REINVESTMENT. SO IT'S NOT AS SIMPLE AS JUST MAYBE ADDING ADDITIONAL CAPACITY TO IT. THE, THE PROJECT TO ADD THE 5 MILLION GALLONS IS ROUGHLY 283 MILLION, JUST FOR THE 5 MILLION GALLONS OF CAPACITY. AND SO I THINK WHEN YOU COMPARE IT, THEY, THEY, THEY, THEY PENCIL OUT PRETTY CLOSE TO ONE ANOTHER.

>> THE THREE BASINS. >> YES, SIR. >> YEAH. OKAY.

>> FOR A PLANT IN EACH ONE OF THEM, THE COST FOR THE PLANTS IN EACH ONE OF THEM.

>> OKAY. >> SO YOU'RE ALSO GOING TO HAVE A CONVEYANCE AS WELL. BUT.

>> WELL NO, I MEAN I AS I THINK THROUGH YOUR ANSWER, I THINK I THINK THAT ANSWERS MY QUESTION.

I MAY HAVE MORE OF THE REST OF COUNCIL AS THEY SPEAK. >> THANK YOU.

>> REPRESENTATIVE DISTRICT FOUR. >> THANK YOU. SO I UNDERSTAND AND I GUESS I MISS THIS. WE'RE GOING FROM AN IMPLEMENTATION DATE OF JANUARY 1ST TO APRIL 1ST. YES, SIR. IS THAT OBVIOUSLY TO GIVE PEOPLE THREE MORE MONTHS TO, TO GET QUEUED UP AND SOFTEN THE BLOW A BIT.

>> YES SIR. THAT WAS BASED OFF OF THE FEEDBACK WE HEARD FROM THE PUBLIC HEARING ON THE 15TH OR THE FIFTH. SO WE FELT WE WENT BACK AND WE ANALYZED IT AND DETERMINED, WELL, WE COULD AFFORD TO PROVIDE THAT ADDITIONAL BANDWIDTH BECAUSE I BELIEVE IT WAS A COUNCILOR JESTER HAD MENTIONED, YOU KNOW, THE STRESS ON FOLKS THAT HAVE ALREADY INVESTED IN THE PROPERTY AND PROPERTY DEVELOPMENT AND GOING THROUGH THE PROCESS AND STAFF FEELS THAT WE COULD WE COULD DELAY THE ACTUAL IMPLEMENTATION BY A FEW MONTHS TO HELP SOFTEN THAT BLOW.

>> OKAY, OKAY. VERY GOOD, VERY GOOD. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU SIR.

>> OKAY. ANY OTHER ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? REPRESENTATIVE FROM DISTRICT

ONE? >> I HAVE A KINDERGARTEN LEVEL QUESTION.

>> YES, MA'AM. >> IN THIS MAY HAVE BEEN ANSWERED. I'M SORRY. IS THERE ROOM FOR A VARIED PERCENTAGE? LOOKING AT THE CURRENT CURRENT INFRASTRUCTURE VERSUS ALL OF THE YOU KNOW WHAT WE'RE EXPECTING TO COME IN. YOU KNOW, THE QUESTION FROM MY CONSTITUENT IS, IS WHY ARE WE PAYING, YOU KNOW, FOR A CORE GROUP OF GROUP FOR, YOU KNOW, FOR THIS PARTICULAR INFRASTRUCTURE AT THE SAME PERCENTAGE AS THE NEW INFRASTRUCTURE THAT'S COMING IN? I'M HEARING YOU SAY THAT THE CORRECT ME, I'M HEARING YOU SAY THAT THE CORE INFRASTRUCTURE IS

[05:30:11]

VASTNESS THAT WE ARE, ARE LOOKING, LOOKING AT? >> SO ON THE WASTEWATER SIDE, THAT'S A TRUE STATEMENT THAT THAT THE INFRASTRUCTURE, THE TREATMENT FACILITY IS IN NEED OF SIGNIFICANT REINVESTMENT. BUT IF YOU'LL GO BACK TO THE EXCUSE ME, GO BACK TO THE IMPACT FEE RECOMMENDATION FOR ON THE WATER SIDE, YOU'LL NOTICE THAT IN THIS SERVICE AREA, ZONE ONE A IT'S A IT'S WE'RE ACTUALLY. WELL WAIT A MINUTE, WAIT A SECOND. SO THE 75% IS ACTUALLY REDUCED. AND THOSE NUMBERS DON'T LOOK FULLY CORRECT. THOSE. RIGHT. YEAH. SO THEY ACTUALLY OH YES I'M DOING MY MATH IS WRONG. I SAW THE THREE AND I GOT I GOT CONFUSED. SO IF YOU SEE THE CURRENTLY IN THAT ONE A THE IMPACT FEE FOR 5/8 METERS, $3,569, THE RECOMMENDATION IS TO DROP THAT DOWN TO $1,365. SO THEY DO RECOGNIZE A SAVINGS BECAUSE THAT INFRASTRUCTURE ALREADY EXISTS.

AND YES, MA'AM. >> OKAY. REPRESENTATIVE FROM DISTRICT SIX.

>> COUNCILPERSON JESTER, FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU FOR THE PRESENTATION AND ALL THE WORK THAT'S GONE INTO THIS AND STAYING SO LATE WITH US TONIGHT. I I'VE HAD A LOT OF PUSH AND PULL ON THIS DECISION. BLESS YOU. I'M HEARING YOU KNOW, I'VE HEARD SOME CONCERNS IN THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY SAYING IF WE RAISE THESE TOO HIGH, NO ONE WILL COME HERE. AND IF NO ONE COMES HERE TO DEVELOP, THEN THERE'S NO ONE TO PAY IMPACT FEES TO THEN PAY FOR THE INFRASTRUCTURE. BUT ADDITIONALLY, WE HAVE LOTS OF OTHER TYPES OF FEES. THAT I FEEL ARE SET, MAYBE NOT IN SYNC WITH EACH OTHER. SO WE DON'T WANT THAT. WE WANT GOOD DEVELOPMENT HERE. WE DON'T WANT CHEAP DEVELOPMENT THAT WON'T LAST A LONG TIME. SO WE, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE OF THE HIGHER FEES, JUST THE CHEAP DEVELOPMENTS WILL COME HERE. AND THAT'S NOT GOOD FOR SUSTAINABILITY AND HOMEOWNERSHIP AND BUILDING WEALTH FOR OUR CITIZENS. BUT AT THE SAME TIME IT'S SO DIFFICULT TO FIND APPLES TO APPLES. YOU KNOW, I'VE SEEN DIFFERENT NUMBERS, BOTH PROVIDED BY STAFF AND PROVIDED BY OTHER PEOPLE. HOWEVER, NOT EVERYONE IS A FULL SERVICE CITY, AND I DO BELIEVE THAT IS A BENEFIT TO US, THAT WE ARE NOT A CITY THAT'S GOING TO HAVE TO WORRY AFTER A CONTRACT ENDS. WHERE ARE WE GOING TO GET WATER FROM BECAUSE SOMEONE ELSE IS GOING TO DECIDE THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH TO SHARE. SO I BELIEVE IT IS IN OUR BEST INTEREST. HOWEVER, AT THE SAME TIME IT COMES WITH THIS TYPE OF OBLIGATION. AND ON THE OTHER SIDE, THERE'S ALSO THE LOANS THAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE AND THAT WE DO. WE ARE REQUIRED TO SHOW THE ABILITY TO REPAY BASED ON RATES AND FEES, BOTH WITH THE TEXAS WATER DEVELOPMENT BOARD AND THE WATER INFRASTRUCTURE FINANCE AND INNOVATION ACT FUNDS. SO THERE ARE A LOT OF MOVING PARTS. I JUST WANT TO SAY, AND I'M I'M SURE IT'S BEEN DIFFICULT TO COME UP WITH HOW WE CAN MAKE THESE PROJECTS WORK, HOW WE CAN CHARGE AS FAIRLY AS POSSIBLE. BOTH THE RATEPAYERS PRESENT AND FUTURE, AS WELL AS THE DEVELOPERS AND THE IMPACT FEES. SO JUST SAYING ALL OF THAT, I DO HAVE A QUESTION AND I APPRECIATE THAT STAFF HAS GONE BACK AND WORKED THE NUMBERS NUMEROUS TIMES, WHETHER IT WAS STARTING AT THE 100% OF THE ALLOWABLE, THE MAXIMUM ALLOWABLE IMPACT FEES COMING DOWN AND MAKING IT WORK WITH THE NUMBERS, WITH THE TIMELINE FOR 75%. THEN STARTING WITH THE JANUARY 1ST, 2026 START DATE, IMPLEMENTATION DATE, AND NOW MOVING IT TO APRIL. AS FAR AS WHAT THE LAST SUGGESTION WAS, AND I KNOW I'M PUTTING YOU ON THE SPOT, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE LOOKED AT THIS OR NOT. WHAT IS WHAT IS THE DATE THAT WE CAN PUSH THE IMPLEMENTATION THAT WOULD STILL

[05:35:07]

>> YES, MA'AM. COUNCILOR JESTER, THANK YOU FOR YOUR QUESTION. WE HAVE LOOKED AT IT AND I BELIEVE IT WAS JUNE 1ST AS AN IMPLEMENTATION WOULD BE THE ABSOLUTE FURTHEST WE COULD PUSH

IT OUT BASED OFF OF OUR ANALYSIS. >> AND WITH THAT DATE, CAN WE STILL MAKE IT WORK AS FAR AS WHAT IS REQUIRED OF US AND WHEN WE NEED TO HAVE EVERYTHING IN PLACE? BECAUSE LET'S SAY WE'RE IN AUGUST, SEPTEMBER, OCTOBER, NOVEMBER, DECEMBER, JANUARY, FEBRUARY, MARCH, APRIL, MAY, JUNE, THAT'S TEN MONTHS. SO THAT THAT SEEMS MORE OF A FAIR I MEAN, AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE LEAD TIME FOR THOSE PEOPLE TO GET ACROSS THE MARK. WILL YOU SPEAK

TO THAT, PLEASE? >> YEAH. WE BASED OFF OUR ESTIMATES AND OUR PROJECTED GROWTH, IT'S ROUGHLY $3.2 MILLION A MONTH THAT WE DEFER THE IMPLEMENTATION. SO WE'LL HAVE TO MAKE ADJUSTMENTS. OBVIOUSLY WITH PROJECT PROJECT SCHEDULING AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

BUT WE FEEL BASED OFF OF THE PROJECTED GROWTH, THE DEVELOPMENT THAT WE'RE SEEING COMING IN, THAT WE WOULD BE ABLE TO MAKE IT WORK. IT WILL BE TIGHT, BUT WE BELIEVE WE'LL BE

ABLE TO MAKE IT WORK WELL. >> AND I HAVE SEEN SOME FINANCIAL IMPACT ANALYSIS OF SOME OF THE THINGS THAT ARE COMING IN. AND SO I UNDERSTAND THAT WE WOULD BE TAKING THOSE MILLIONS AS FAR AS EVERY MONTH THAT WE DELAY. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I THINK THERE ARE SOME DEVELOPMENTS IN THE PIPELINE, AS I UNDERSTAND THAT WE STAND TO MAKE THAT KIND OF MONEY AND BETTER BACK AGAIN. THERE'S JUST A REAL PUSH PULL HERE. SO. HOW COMFORTABLE ARE YOU? IF WE WERE TO MOVE THAT DATE TO JUNE 1ST, GIVING TEN MONTHS FOR THOSE THAT ARE ALREADY MOVING ALONG, AS AMY BESSETTE SAID LAST MEETING, IT IS TAKING ABOUT THAT AMOUNT OF TIME TO GET THROUGH THE PROCESS.

>> WE'VE WE HAVE LOOKED AT THE NUMBERS AND WE DO BELIEVE THAT WE CAN MAKE IT WORK.

>> OKAY. WELL, TWO THINGS I WOULD LIKE TO DO, MAYOR. ONE IS TO. MOVE APPROVAL OF THE FEES AS PRESENTED, BUT PUSHING THE DATE TO JUNE 1ST. AND SECONDLY, I WOULD LIKE TO REQUEST A WORK SESSION ON OUR FEES SO THAT WE CAN DETERMINE WHAT INCENTIVES THAT FOR LACKING INVENTORY, THAT WE HAVE LEVERS FOR. I AM CONVINCED THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE. HOWEVER, I THINK THERE ARE OTHER TYPES OF FEES THAT WE CAN. USE TO INCENTIVIZE SINGLE FAMILY AFFORDABLE HOMES, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT I'M HEARING IS PEOPLE WANT TO OWN A HOME. AN AFFORDABLE HOME, AND THEN ALSO THE HIGHER END HOMES FOR UPPER MANAGEMENT TO HELP US GET GOOD JOBS HERE.

AND THAT WHAT I CONSIDER THE ECOSYSTEM OF A CITY THAT WORKS. SO I KNOW THAT'S BEEN AN AWFUL LOT, BUT THIS HAS BEEN AN AWFUL LOT ON MY MIND. AND SO THOSE ARE THE TWO THINGS I WOULD PROPOSE.

>> OKAY. SO I'LL LEAVE IT TO STAFF TO CIRCLE BACK WITH YOU ON THE WORK SESSION COMPONENT, BECAUSE THAT WILL EITHER BE A TWO MINUTE PITCH OR ORGANICALLY IT'S COMING, BUT THEY'LL FOLLOW UP WITH YOU ON THAT. I TAKE YOUR POINT ON ON WHERE YOU ARE. WE HAVE A MOTION. SO IS THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF THEN? I SEE YOU HERE. REPRESENTATIVE FROM DISTRICT ONE. DO YOU HAVE A

SECOND WORDS OR THE FLOOR IS YOURS? >> MY FRIENDLY AMENDMENT?

>> NO, MA'AM. >> OKAY. >> I THINK WE NEED TO MOVE FORWARD. I DO HAVE A MOTION FOR APPROVAL HERE I DON'T OWN. WE HAVE A SECOND. SO MOTION TO

[05:40:03]

APPROVE. >> WAIT. DO YOU. >> DO OR DO NOT ACCEPT?

>> I'M SORRY. PARDON ME. DO YOU SECOND OR NO? COUNCILOR JESTER, I ALREADY MADE THE MOTION.

MOTION? >> OH, I JUST SEE HERE THAT I HAVE MOTION TO ADOPT. SECOND,

BRIAN BURKE. THAT'S WHAT I HAVE ON MY SCREEN. >> YEAH, NO, IT'S CERTAINLY ON YOUR SCREEN. SHE HAD THE FLOOR AND SHE WAS TALKING TO YOU WHILE YOU PUSHED MOVEMENT. WHILE SHE WAS TALKING. AT THE END OF HER CONCLUSION, HER STATEMENT, SHE MADE THE MOTION. SO.

>> MAYOR, I'M. >> SORRY, I ACTUALLY ALREADY HAD THAT MOTION THERE. I HAD ALREADY

PUT THE MOTION IN BEFORE SHE STARTED SPEAKING. >> WHEN WE GET TO IT, I WOULD

LIKE TO SECOND COUNCIL MEMBER GESTURES. >> SO HERE'S WHERE WE ARE. WE HAVE A MOTION ON THE FLOOR. THE FLOOR IS YOURS IF YOU CARE TO SPEAK, BUT I'M GOING TO FIND A

SECOND IF YOU'RE NOT OPEN TO THAT. >> NO, I'M NOT OPEN TO THAT.

>> GOT IT. REPRESENTATIVE FROM DISTRICT TWO. >> SPEAKING TO THE MOTION FROM

COUNCILMAN JESTER. >> SO HE'S. NO, HE'S. >> HE'S YOU SAID TWO. SORRY

SORRY, SORRY. >> YEAH. NO. I'M SECONDING. I WAS SECONDING THE VICKI ORIGINAL

MOTION. >> YEAH. SO CAN WE RESET THAT? SO THE MOTION BY COUNCILMEMBER

JESTER IS WHAT'S ON THE FLOOR. >> YES. >> YES. YEAH.

>> SUGGESTION. >> YES. SHE DOES. AND WE DO HAVE A SPEAKER. I GET IT. WE'RE NOT GOING TO VOTE BEFORE EVERYONE GETS A CHANCE TO TALK. I JUST I WANT TO GET THIS KIND OF

ORGANIZED. GOT IT. REPRESENTATIVE DISTRICT FOUR. >> DO I UNDERSTAND, MAYOR, THAT THE THAT THE MOTION IS, IS APPROVED? THE IMPACT FEES AT 75%, EFFECTIVE JUNE 1ST.

>> THAT IS THE MOTION. >> I'LL SECOND THAT. >> GOT IT. SO WE HAVE A MOTION IN A SECOND. WE'RE STILL DISCUSSING. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF DISCUSSION?

REPRESENTATIVE FROM DISTRICT TWO. >> YEAH, JUST PART OF THE PROCESS. MR. MAYOR, ARE WE DISCUSSING THIS PARTICULAR MOTION? ARE WE STILL GENERALLY

ASKING QUESTIONS. >> OF GENERALLY ASKING QUESTIONS? AND HERE'S MY METHODOLOGY. JUST TO BE TRANSPARENT, THE SPEAKER GETS ONE SHOT AT IT. AND SO I FIGURED WE'LL JUST GET ALL THE DISCUSSION OUT OF THE WAY SO THAT THEY CAN SPEAK TO ALL THE THINGS. BECAUSE IF SOMETHING HAPPENS AFTER THEY SPEAK, THEY DON'T GET TO RESPOND. SO I'M

TRYING TO GET IT ALL IN. THAT'S THAT'S MY THOUGHT PROCESS. >> OKAY. I HAVE A QUESTION FOR

STAFF NOT RELATED TO THE MOTION AND JUST RELATED TO THE GENERAL. >> BY ALL MEANS, YES.

>> AND THAT IS I SORT OF STARTED TO ASK IT AND WE DIDN'T REALLY GET BACK TO IT IN MY EARLIER COMMENT. AND DO WE HAVE AN EXPECTATION FOR WHAT THE IMPACTS OF CPI AND INFLATION ARE EXPECTED TO BE? SORT OF MINIMUM TWO, THAT WOULD BE RELATIVE TO IMPACT FEES AND THE ONGOING COSTS. YOU MENTIONED $3.2 MILLION A MONTH. DO WE HAVE A YOU KNOW, IT'S IN THAT SAME VEIN OF CONCEPT. DO WE DO WE HAVE AN IDEA AND IT GOES. AND THE REASON LET ME PUT CONTEXT SO YOU CAN ANSWER MY QUESTION MORE CLEARLY. I'M I'M A LITTLE CONCERNED THAT WHILE YOU'VE DONE A GREAT JOB AT ALREADY TAKING WITH YOU SWIFT AND OTHER THINGS AND INCORPORATING THOSE SAVINGS AND MOVING THEM INTO THE PIPELINE, THAT IF THING, I GUESS MY QUESTION IS HOW, HOW, HOW CONFIDENT ARE YOU THAT IN THE NEXT BUDGET CYCLE IT'S GOING TO BE LIKE THAT OR THE NEXT TWO YEARS OR WHENEVER WE REVISIT THESE IMPACT FEES, BECAUSE I'M NOT CONFIDENT THAT WE'RE NOT GOING TO SEE NUMBERS SPIKE, AND THEREFORE YOU WILL FIND YOURSELF KNOW WHAT YOU KNOW, YOU'RE 75% WILL BE AT 65%. AND ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU YOU'LL BE HURTING FOR CASH.

>> I THINK THAT'S A THAT'S A GREAT COMMENT, COUNCILOR BECK. IT DEPENDS. WE DON'T WE DON'T HAVE A CRYSTAL BALL BASED OFF OF THE INFORMATION THAT WE HAVE AVAILABLE TO US. WE FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH THAT. WE HAVE LOOKED AT PROJECTIONS ON THE CPI AND THE IMPACT ON THE PROJECTS.

WE'RE LOOKING AT CONSTRUCTION COSTS, SOME OF THE NUMBERS THAT WE'RE SEEING AND SOME OF THE PROJECTS THAT WE ARE PUTTING OUT TO BID, WE'RE SEEING THEM COME BACK VERY FAVORABLY AT THIS

POINT, BUT THAT WILL EBB AND FLOW WITH THE ECONOMY. >> WELL, IT I TAKE THAT POINT. I APPRECIATE THAT. I KNOW YOU'RE DOING YOUR BEST JOB. I'M FEELING A LITTLE PESSIMISTIC ABOUT WHERE THINGS WERE GOING. SO I FEEL LIKE I'D LIKE TO SEE A NUMBER, YOU KNOW, HIGHER THAN THAN 75%.

I DON'T JUST JUST TO AVOID SOME RISK. AND, YOU KNOW, I'M I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT NUMBER IS, BUT

I'M FEELING PESSIMISTIC. THANK YOU. >> REPRESENTATIVE FROM DISTRICT

FIVE. >> MAYOR. BEFORE THE SPEAKERS COME, I, I APPRECIATE

[05:45:04]

SPEAKER GOING TO SPEAK ON IT? WAS HE SPEAKING? >> NO, THE SPEAKER IS JUST NOT A

DEVELOPER. HE'S JUST. >> A I'M SORRY. I ASSUME DAVID WAS A SPEAKER. YEAH. SORRY.

>> YEAH. >> DAVID, FILL OUT A CARD SO YOU CAN COME TO THE SPEAKER, PLEASE.

>> IT'S TOO LATE. WE ALREADY CALLED ITEM. YEAH. OKAY. SO. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? OKAY.

SO I DO HAVE ONE CARD. IT'S ERIC PRUITT. IF YOU CAN COME DOWN, YOU'LL HAVE THREE MINUTES.

>> THANK YOU. MAYOR ERIC. ERIC PRUITT, 921 OAKLAND STREET. YEAH. IT IS. GOOD MORNING. FIRST QUICK, JUST A COUPLE THINGS THAT CAME UP. MR. GAY OBVIOUSLY HAS ALL THE NUMBERS IN HIS HEAD BETTER THAN I DO. ASSUMING A 50% SPLIT BETWEEN. RESIDENTIAL AND NONRESIDENTIAL. THE $6.4 MILLION WOULD BE ABOUT 50 BUCKS PER FAMILY THAT WERE TAKEN OUT TO DELAY IT BY TWO MONTHS. OKAY.

AND YEAH, THIS THIS IMPACT FEE RATE CHOICE IS REALLY A TRADE OFF BETWEEN IMPACT FEES PAID BY DEVELOPMENT AND FUTURE RATES. THAT'S WHAT IT IS. A COUPLE WEEKS AGO I HEARD TWO MAIN ISSUES. ONE WAS ON FAIRNESS AND THAT IS THAT, YOU KNOW, IF YOU LOOK AT THE MAP, THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE CLEAR CREEK AND HICKORY CREEK AREA IN THE CCN ARE ARE IN THE ETJ, RIGHT? WHEREAS THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE CURRENT RATEPAYERS ARE WITHIN THE PECAN CREEK BASIN. IF YOU KNOW IF THE COST OF OUR PROJECTS RISES ABOVE WHAT WE COLLECT, THEN, THEN THE RATEPAYERS IN THE CITY WILL END UP SUBSIDIZING DEVELOPMENT IN THE ETJ. THAT'S JUST KIND OF WHAT HAPPENS, YOU KNOW, WILL THEY COST 100%? I DON'T KNOW, BUT HERE THAT'S FRED'S DATA ON CONSTRUCTION.

>> CAN WE HAVE THE DOCUMENT CAMERA. >> CONSTRUCTION COST INCREASES OVER THE LAST TEN YEARS? I'M NOT FEELING TOO CONFIDENT. THERE IS AN IMPACT ON HOUSING COSTS. BUT FUNDAMENTALLY, IF YOU IF YOU IF YOU KEEP IT LOWER AND AFFORDABLE IN ONE AREA, THEN THAT IS THE AREA THAT SETS THE COST TO BUILD. ESSENTIALLY, YOU AS COUNCIL HAVE THE PURVIEW TO BE ABLE TO CHOOSE DIFFERENT PERCENTAGES FOR DIFFERENT BASINS. THE AND THEN STAFF ALSO SAID A COUPLE YEARS AGO, WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE ROADWAY IMPACT FEES, THAT THEY WOULD PREFER DOING SOME SORT OF INFILL OVERLAY AT THAT TIME. AND, AND I HAVEN'T HEARD ANY PROGRESS ON THAT SINCE THEN. YOU KNOW, A PREVIOUS COUNCIL MEMBER SAID THAT THEY HAD NOT SEEN THE COUNCIL FOLLOW OUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, BUT NOW'S YOUR CHOICE. THE PLAN SAYS AT THE SAME TIME THAT THIS SUBURBAN EXPANSION HAS DRIVEN PUBLIC AND PRIVATE INVESTMENT INTO OUTLYING AREAS WITH INCREASED INFRASTRUCTURE EXPENSE, SOME MORE ESTABLISHED IN-TOWN NEIGHBORHOODS AND COMMERCIAL AREAS HAVE SUFFERED DISINVESTMENT AND DECLINE AND ARE IN NEED OF RENEWAL IN RESPONSE TO PUBLIC INPUT. IT IS THE INTENTION OF THIS PLAN TO REVERSE THESE TRENDS BY ENCOURAGING THOUGHTFUL AND RESOURCEFUL DEVELOPMENT AND INVESTMENT WHERE IT IS NEEDED FOR A FULLY FUNCTIONAL AND LIVABLE CITY. THIS MEANS SUPPORTING MORE COMPACT AND

INTERCONNECTED LAND USE PATTERNS. >> AND THAT'S YOUR TIME. THANK YOU, THANK YOU. APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS. VERY HELPFUL. AND IF STAFF COULD TAKE A NOTE TO ADD TO THE FRIDAY REPORT STATUS ON THE IMPACT FEE OVERLAY THAT HE MENTIONED, THAT'D BE GREAT.

OKAY, SO WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? SEEING NONE. LET'S VOTE ON THE SCREEN. THAT PASSES 4 TO 3. THAT TAKES US TO ITEM. WHERE ARE WE'D. AND

[D. Consider approval of a resolution of the City of Denton approving an application for a partial tax exemption of designated historic sites, in accordance with Chapter 10, Article VI, Sections 10-126 through 10-129 of the Denton Municipal Code of Ordinances, for a Local Historic Landmark located at 314 Marietta Street, located on the east side of Marietta Street, between W. Oak Street and Houston Place; providing for severability; and providing an effective date. The Historic Landmark Commission recommends a favorable determination (5-0). (HL25-0001a, 314 Marietta Street - Tax Exemption, Cameron Robertson)]

[05:50:05]

THE DENTON MUNICIPAL CODE OF ORDINANCES. >> GOOD EVENING.

>> MAYOR AND COUNCIL MEMBERS CAMERON ROBERTSON, HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICER. AS STATED, THIS IS A REQUEST FOR A PARTIAL HISTORIC TAX EXEMPTION FOR A LANDMARK PROPERTY AT 314 MARIETTA STREET, WHICH YOU CAN SEE ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE OF THE SCREEN. THEY HAVE DONE REPAIRS AND UPDATES TO THE PROPERTY, AMOUNTING TO APPROXIMATELY $33,000. EXCLUDING THAT TRASH HAUL FEE. THIS IS A BEFORE AND AFTER OF THAT RESTORATION OF THAT PROPERTY. HISTORIC LANDMARK COMMISSION DID MAKE A FAVORABLE DETERMINATION OF FIVE ZERO. STAFF IS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL WITH THE EXEMPTION OF THAT TRASH HAUL FEE, AS IT STILL MEETS THAT MINIMUM OF $10,000 OR MORE REQUIREMENTS STATED IN THE CITY'S CODE OF ORDINANCE, AND THAT SECTION TEN 120 8CI CAN

STAND FOR ANY QUESTIONS. >> THANK YOU. QUESTIONS FOR STAFF REPRESENTATIVE FROM

DISTRICT TWO. >> THANK YOU. CAMERON. AS I RECALL FROM WHEN THIS THESE RELATED ITEMS CAME BEFORE US. THIS IS ONE OF THE FEW EXAMPLES OF THIS THAT'S APPLIED FOR TAX

CREDIT IN THE REGION. IS THAT CORRECT? >> YES THAT'S CORRECT.

>> AND AS I ALSO I MEAN, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT THE ORIGINAL INTENTION OF THE

DEVELOPER OR THE OWNERS WAS TO DO A TEAR DOWN. IS THAT. >> YES. THAT'S CORRECT.

>> OKAY. ALL RIGHT I APPRECIATE THAT. THANK YOU. >> I'LL MOVE APPROVAL. IS THERE

A SECOND REPRESENTATIVE FROM DISTRICT SIX? >> SECOND.

>> WE HAVE A MOTION. AND SECOND, ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? REPRESENTATIVE FROM DISTRICT

TWO. >> THANK YOU. I'M A LITTLE TORN. I THINK THAT THE HISTORIC COMMISSION AND STAFF ARE DOING THEIR BEST TO, TO KEEP THESE HISTORICAL PROPERTIES. I'M NOT I'M A LITTLE TORN BECAUSE THIS ONE'S GOT THE 3000 SQUARE FOOT UNIT IN THE BACK, AND I'M NOT SURE IT EXACTLY MATCHES THE SPIRIT, BUT WHAT I DO REALLY APPRECIATE IS THE STAFF AND THE HISTORIC COMMISSION CAME TOGETHER AND SAID, NO, WE'RE GOING TO WE'RE GOING TO CARVE IT OUT JUST TO THE ONE PIECE OF THE PROPERTY. I SEE THAT AS A REAL ATTEMPT TO THREAD THE NEEDLE. SO WHILE I'M I'M NOT SURE ABOUT THE WAY THE WHOLE THING FITS INTO THE SCHEME OF OUR HISTORICAL PRESERVATION, I THINK IT'S PROBABLY BETTER TO TRY TO THREAD THESE NEEDLES OCCASIONALLY. SO I'M GOING TO BE SUPPORTING THIS. BUT. YEAH, I'M I'M THIS WAS THIS THIS CAUSED ME A LITTLE

HEARTBURN. >> OKAY. REPRESENTATIVE FROM DISTRICT FOUR.

>> THANK YOU. REMIND ME WHAT IS HISTORIC ABOUT THIS HOUSE. >> IT'S A MINIMAL TRADITIONALIST HOUSE. IT'S THE FIRST OF ITS KIND DESIGNATED WITHIN THE CITY OF DENTON. IT ALSO HAS TIES TO DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS THAT WERE STARTED IN DENTON IN THE 1960S.

>> SO LIKE WHAT? >> I DO NOT KNOW THAT OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, SINCE WE'RE

TALKING ABOUT A TAX EXEMPTION VERSUS A HISTORIC DESIGNATION. >> OKAY. THANK YOU.

>> OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF SEEING NONE. WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND TO APPROVE.

LET'S VOTE ON THE SCREEN. >> SO. >> THAT PASSES 6 TO 1 TAKES US

[E. Consider approval of a resolution of the City Council of the City of Denton, Texas placing a proposal on the September 16, 2025, City Council public meeting agenda to adopt a 2025 Tax Rate that will exceed the lower of the no-new-revenue tax rate or the voter approval tax rate; calling a public hearing on the proposed tax rate which will result in an increase in tax revenue to the City for fiscal year 2025-26, to be held on September 9, 2025; calling a public hearing on the budget for the fiscal year 2025-26 Annual Program of Services of the City of Denton to be held on September 9, 2025; requiring the publication and posting of notices of the public hearings and meetings in accordance with the law; and providing an effective date.]

>> HI. GOOD EVENING. MAYOR. MEMBERS OF COUNCIL MATT HAMILTON OF FINANCE, HERE TO PRESENT THE INTENT TO SET A TAX RATE. THIS IS A STATE REQUIRED RESOLUTION THAT SERVES TWO PURPOSES. ONE IS

[05:55:06]

AND AT THAT TIME, YOU WOULD ADOPT A RATE THAT IS EQUAL TO OR LESS THE MAXIMUM RATE THAT YOU SET TONIGHT. SO THE MAX TAX RATE THAT STAFF IS PROPOSING IS 0.605420, WHICH IS $0.01 HIGHER THAN THE PROPOSED RATE IN THE CITY MANAGER'S PROPOSED BUDGET. THE PUBLIC HEARINGS ARE SCHEDULED FOR SEPTEMBER 9TH. BOTH PUBLIC HEARINGS ARE REQUIRED PRIOR TO ADOPTION, AND THE PUBLIC HEARING IS REQUIRED FOR THE TAX RATE. IF THE RATE EXCEEDS EITHER THE LOWER OF THE NO NEW REVENUE RATE OR THE VOTER APPROVAL RATE. IN THIS CASE, THE PROPOSED MAX TAX RATE WOULD EXCEED THE NO NEW REVENUE RATE, AND THUS WE WOULD NEED A PUBLIC HEARING ON THIS ITEM. AT THE PUBLIC HEARING, RESIDENTS HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO PROVIDE INPUT ON THE PROPOSED TAX RATE AND BUDGET PRIOR TO ADOPTION ON SEPTEMBER 16TH. SO NEXT STEPS SEPTEMBER 9TH. THE BUDGET AND TAX RATE HEARINGS, AND SEPTEMBER 16TH, THE BUDGET CAP AND TAX RATE ADOPTION. AND WITH THAT,

I'LL STAND FOR ANY QUESTIONS. >> THANK YOU. QUESTIONS FOR STAFF REPRESENTATIVE FROM

DISTRICT TWO. >> THANK YOU MATT. SO AS IF WE COMBINE THAT THAT TABLE, THE FINAL TABLE, I'M NOT ASKING YOU TO GO BACK TO IT, BUT THE WITH THE AVERAGE HOME COST I THINK YOU SAID IF I'M IN THE BACKUP, IT WAS 379 LAST YEAR, 387 THIS YEAR. SO ABOUT A 68 $6,900 DIFFERENCE IN APPRAISAL RATES FOR THE AVERAGE PROPERTY. AGAIN, THE AVERAGE PROPERTY DOESN'T REALLY EXIST IN THE CITY OF DENTON. BUT AM I CORRECT IN INTERPRETING THAT THE NO NEW REVENUE RATE WOULD DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THOSE TWO HOME VALUES LAST YEAR TO THIS YEAR WOULD BE ABOUT 38 BUCKS, AND THE MAXIMUM VOTER APPROVAL RATE IS 4187. IF YOU APPLY THOSE THOSE TWO TABLES TO THOSE HYPOTHETICAL HOMES, IS THAT IS THAT ABOUT RIGHT? WE'RE LOOKING AT NO LESS THAN 38 AND

[06:00:02]

NO MORE THAN $42 FOR THE AVERAGE HOMEOWNER. >> YEAH, I, I GUESS I'D HAVE TO

DO THE MATH. BUT IT SOUNDS THAT SOUNDS. >> I'M INTERPRETING IT

CORRECTLY. >> YEAH. THE NO NEW REVENUE RATE IS ESSENTIALLY SAYING ALL THE PROPERTIES THAT WERE ON THE ROLL LAST YEAR. SO NONE OF THE NEW VALUE, IF WE WERE TO RAISE THE SAME AMOUNT OF REVENUE THIS YEA, WITH THOSE PROPERTIES HAVING INCREASED IN VALUE, WHAT WOULD THAT RATE BE? AND IT'S APPROXIMATELY IT'S THE $0.55. YES.

>> SO WE'RE WE'RE REALLY I MEAN, I KNOW WE'RE NOT REALLY DOING THE FINAL BUDGET DISCUSSION, BUT FOR ALL THESE RATES, THE, THE CEILING THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TONIGHT VERSUS THE, YOU KNOW, THE FLOOR OF THE NO NEW REVENUE RATE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT $3 A YEAR FOR THE AVERAGE RESIDENTIAL HOME IS WHAT I'M HEARING. DIFFERENCE $3 DIFFERENCE. SO A RANGE OF $38 TO $42 INCREASE TO

GET THE ADDITIONAL $6,900 IN AVERAGE REVENUE. >> BETWEEN THE NO NEW REVENUE

AND THE VOTER APPROVAL. >> YES. >> IT IT MY FEELING IS IT MAY BE

MORE. >> OKAY SO MAYBE THEN BECAUSE I'M THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. I'M ASKING WHETHER I'VE GOT THE NUMBERS RIGHT. MAYBE YOU YOU COULD FOR THE FOR RATES. IF STAFF COULD GIVE US WHAT THE INCREASE IN IN SO BECAUSE WE'RE NOT REALLY I MY EXPECTATION IS WE'RE NOT REALLY ARGUING OVER A HUGE INCREASE IN IN NUMBERS. WE'RE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ARE WE GOING TO IMPROVE. IF I'M RIGHT, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHETHER WE'RE GOING TO APPROVE 38, 40, 41 OR 42 INCREASE FROM LAST YEAR TO THIS YEAR IN TERMS OF TAXES. SO FOR THE SERVICES THAT STAFF HAVE RESPONDED TO US, WE'RE WE'RE WE'RE NOT REALLY ARGUING. WE'RE ARGUING SMALL NUMBERS THAT ARE JUST AMPLIFIED OVER ALL OF OUR TAX BASE. I MEAN, AND SO IN ORDER TO LIKE, YOU KNOW, I KNOW PEOPLE DON'T MAY OR MAY NOT I MEAN, I MAY HAVE IT WRONG, BUT I'M ASKING STAFF TO SORT OF GIVE US THOSE, THOSE NUMBERS AND THAT COMPARISON FOR THE LAST YEAR AND THIS YEAR'S. AVERAGE HOME PRICES, TO SEE WHAT WE'RE REALLY DEBATING OVER, WE'RE NOT DEBATING, I THINK WE'RE NOT DEBATING OVER THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS BECAUSE IT WAS ALREADY YOU KNOW, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT GOING FROM $6800 TO $7000. SO THAT'S WHAT I'M

ASKING FOR FUTURE. THANKS. >> MAYOR PRO TEM. >> HI, MATT.

>> HI. >> SO IN TERMS OF SETTING THE CEILING TONIGHT, IS THERE WHAT IS SOMETHING THAT WOULD CAUSE US TO GO A LITTLE HIGHER THAN THE PROPOSED BUDGET, OR HAS THAT

HAPPENED BEFORE OR DO YOU KNOW. >> YEAH. IN PRIOR YEARS WHEN THE CITY HAS WELL, OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, THE CITY HAS HAD AN APPRAISED VALUE THAT IS SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER HISTORICALLY THAN IT THAN IT HAS BEEN. AND I, I IT WAS IN DOUBLE DIGITS YEAR OVER YEAR, YOU KNOW, GROWTH. SO IN THOSE YEARS THERE WERE ADDITIONAL REVENUES AVAILABLE. AND WHAT THE STAFF WOULD BRING FORWARD ARE SUPPLEMENTALS WHERE COUNCIL WOULD BE ABLE TO CHOOSE WHERE THAT ADDITIONAL REVENUE WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, APPLIED AND FUNDED THIS YEAR, GIVEN THE BUDGET CONSTRAINTS, STAFF DID NOT BRING FORWARD ANY NEW POSITIONS OR PROGRAMS. SO THIS YEAR IS A LITTLE MORE UNIQUE IN TERMS OF WHAT POTENTIALLY COULD BE DONE WITH WITH THE ADDITIONAL REVENUE. BUT WE DID WANT TO PROVIDE THAT FLEXIBILITY IN THE PROCESS. SHOULD SHOULD THERE,

YOU KNOW, BE DIRECTION TO INCREASE INCREASE THE RATE. >> SO BASICALLY TO ADD SOMETHING TO THE BUDGET OKAY. JUST LIKE SAVING ROOM FOR THAT OKAY. THANK YOU FOR EXPLAINING THAT. AND THEN ONE LAST QUESTION I LOST IT. WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF WE DIDN'T RAISE THAT ONE ADDITIONAL CENT TO HELP PAY OFF THE DEBT? BECAUSE I KNOW THIS IS SPECIFICALLY FOR THE DEBT

SERVICE TO PAY DOWN DEBT. THE $0.01. >> YEAH. SO THE WAY THE DEBT SERVICE WORKS IS EVERYTHING THAT WE ISSUE IN THE PRIOR YEAR. THE PAYMENT BECOMES DUE IN THE NEXT YEAR. SO WE KNOW WHAT THAT DEBT SERVICE NUMBER IS FROM THE VERY BEGINNING. AND THE COUNTY STATE CALCULATION OF THE TAX RATE. YOU HAVE TO LEVY WHAT THAT NUMBER IS THAT WHAT THAT DEBT SERVICE

[06:05:06]

WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO REDUCE THE INS RATE. >> SO WE WOULD PULL IT FROM THE GENERAL FUND AND, AND HAVE TO MAKE ADDITIONAL CUTS TO CITY SERVICES, BASICALLY.

>> YES. >> THAT'S CORRECT. >> RESIDENT FROM DISTRICT SIX.

>> THANK YOU. MY QUESTION WAS ANSWERED. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. AND THANK YOU FOR ALL THE GOOD EXPLANATIONS TO HELP US UNDERSTAND WHY WE DO WHAT WE DO. THANK YOU.

>> OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? I'LL MOVE APPROVAL. IS THERE A SECOND REPRESENTATIVE

FROM DISTRICT TWO? >> SECOND. >> WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? SEEING NONE. LET'S VOTE ON THE SCREEN.

[6. CONCLUDING ITEMS]

MAYOR PRO TEM. >> I WANT TO DO A COUPLE SHOUT OUTS. SO I VISITED THE REEVES ELEMENTARY ON THE FIRST DAY OF SCHOOL LAST WEEK. I JUST WANT TO DO A SHOUT OUT TO OFFICER ROSE, WHO REALLY HELPED ADD SOME ORDER TO THE CHAOS. HE GOT OUT THERE AND STARTED GUIDING TRAFFIC AND HELPING THE KIDS CROSS A LITTLE MORE SAFELY. WHICH, BY THE WAY, RONNIE ROAD OPENED AS OF TODAY.

YEAH, SO THE REEVES ELEMENTARY, THEY CAN COME FROM BOTH SIDES NOW. SO SHOUT OUT TO OFFICER ROSE. SHOUT OUT TO SETH GARCIA, DIRECTOR OF CAPITAL PROJECTS. HE'S BEEN REALLY RESPONSIVE AND REALLY HELPFUL IN HELPING ME ANSWER CONSTITUENT CONCERNS. AND HE'S GIVEN ME RECENTLY AN OVERVIEW OF THE PROCESS OF RECONSTRUCTING A STREET, WHICH IS GOING TO BE REALLY HELPFUL SO I CAN EXPLAIN THINGS TO CONSTITUENTS. AND THE LAST THING I WANT TO BRING NOTE TO IS I THINK IT WAS LAST WEEK AT LEAST, THE SECOND TRAFFIC FATALITY IN MY DISTRICT THIS YEAR OCCURRED.

HER NAME WAS ROSANNA. LIKE, I DIDN'T KNOW HER THAT WELL, BUT SHE WAS AN ACQUAINTANCE AND WE HAVE A LOT OF FRIENDS IN COMMON, SO IT'S REALLY HIT OUR COMMUNITY REALLY HARD. A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE MISSING HER, AND IT'S JUST A REMINDER THAT TRAFFIC FATALITIES, THEY DON'T CARE HOW NICE OF A PERSON YOU ARE IF YOU ARE A GRANDMOTHER LIKE ROSANNA WAS, HOW MANY PEOPLE LOVED YOU, HOW YOU KNOW, POWERFUL, RICH YOU MIGHT BE. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU'RE A ONE YEAR OLD. SO I JUST REALLY HOPE THAT THESE TYPES OF DEATHS ARE NOT GLOSSED OVER, THAT WE REMEMBER THEM, THAT WE REMEMBER THE PEOPLE WE'VE LOST, AND THAT WE ALWAYS ARE COMMITTED TO ENSURING THAT OUR STREETS ARE SAFE. ABOVE ALL, FOR THE HUMAN LIFE OF OUR FRIENDS AND OUR NEIGHBORS AND OUR FAMILY HERE IN

DENTON. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. ANY ANY OTHER CONCLUDING ITEMS? SEEING NONE, I SECOND THAT ON ROSANNA. AMAZING MEMBER OF OUR COMMUNITY AND LOTS OF DEAR FRIENDS. AND SO CONDOLENCES TO HER FAMILY AND GRANDKIDS. AND AS THEY KIND OF GET GET A TRY TO PROCESS THROUGH THAT, IT'S A TREMENDOUS LOSS FOR THE COMMUNITY. AND THEN I WILL SAY, TODAY'S MY ANNIVERSARY. SO I, I CAN GO MY BEDTIME IS 10:00, SO I'LL GET 15 MINUTES TO CELEBRATE. AND NOW

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.