3. Requests for clarification of agenda items listed on this agenda for public hearing and individual consideration.

[A. ID 26-1581 Receive a report, hold a discussion, and give staff direction regarding Audit Project 046-City-wide Overtime. [Estimated Presentation/Discussion Time: 30 minutes]]

AGENDA FOR FOR A ID 26-1581. RECEIVE A REPORT, HOLD THE DISCUSSION AND GIVE STAFF

DIRECTION REGARDING AUDIT PROJECT. 046 CITY WIDE OVERTIME. >> HELLO MAYOR AND COUNCIL. I'M MADISON DENTON, CITY AUDITOR, AND I'M HERE TO PRESENT OUR FINDINGS FROM THE AUDIT OF CITY WIDE OVERTIME. SO FIRST, TO ACHIEVE ITS GOALS, ORGANIZATIONS MUST EMPLOY PEOPLE AND PAY THEM FOR THEIR LABOR. WHEN AN EMPLOYEE WORKS MORE THAN THEIR NORMAL WORKING HOURS, UNITED STATES FEDERAL LAW REQUIRES EMPLOYERS, INCLUDING THE CITY OF DENTON, TO PAY THEIR EMPLOYEES A PREMIUM FOR THIS OVERTIME. SPECIFICALLY, MOST EMPLOYEES MUST BE PAID TIME AND A HALF FOR ACTUAL WORK HOURS WORKED OVER 40 IN A WEEK. AS ILLUSTRATED IN THE EQUATION ON THE SLIDE. FEDERAL LAW EXEMPTS EXECUTIVE, ADMINISTRATIVE, ADMINISTRATIVE, PROFESSIONAL, OUTSIDE SALES, AND SOME COMPUTER EMPLOYEES FROM RECEIVING RECEIVING OVERTIME, AND PROVIDES HIGHER WORK HOURS THRESHOLD FOR FIRE PROTECTION AND LAW ENFORCEMENT EMPLOYEES. THIS AUDIT EVALUATED WHETHER THE CITY OF DENTON'S WORK MANAGEMENT PROCESSES MINIMIZE OVERTIME COSTS. I'LL BEGIN BY DISCUSSING THE CITY IS INCURRING ANY UNNECESSARY OVERTIME DUE TO THE PREMIUM PRICE. ORGANIZATIONS GENERALLY WANT TO AVOID UNNECESSARY OVERTIME OR OVERTIME THAT'S NOT RELATED TO MEETING ORGANIZATIONAL GOALS. TO DO THIS, BEST PRACTICES SUGGEST THAT AN ORGANIZATION ESTABLISH CLEAR OVERTIME POLICIES AND USE WORK MANAGEMENT TOOLS TO REGULARLY BALANCE WORKLOADS, PRIORITIZE TASKS, PLAN PROJECTS, AND FLEX SCHEDULES TO ENSURE EMPLOYEE TIME IS USED ECONOMICALLY. THE CITY OF DENTON'S OVERTIME POLICY WAS MOST RECENTLY UPDATED IN JUNE OF 2025, AND PROVIDE SUPERVISORS WITH FLEXIBILITY IN DETERMINING WHEN OVERTIME IS NEEDED, BUT THE POLICY PROVIDES LITTLE GUIDANCE ON HOW IT SHOULD BE TRACKED. HOWEVER, THE POLICY DOES COMPLY WITH FEDERAL LAW BY REQUIRING THE CITY TO PAY ITS EMPLOYEES TIME AND A HALF FOR ANY HOURS WORKED OVER THE RELEVANT OVERTIME THRESHOLD. BASED ON A REVIEW OF A STATISTICAL SAMPLE OF 400 PAY STUBS WITH OVERTIME PAYMENTS, MOST OF THE CITY'S OVERTIME HOURS APPEAR TO BE CAUSED BY WORK MANAGEMENT NEEDS, SUCH AS SCHEDULING, SHIFT COVERAGE,

[00:10:05]

EMERGENCY RESPONSE AND DAILY TASK COMPLETION. ABOUT 10% OF THE CITY'S OVERTIME HOURS ARE INCURRED BY THE FIRE DEPARTMENT TO SUPPORT OTHER COMMUNITIES. DISASTER RELIEF EFFORTS, WHICH THE CITY IS USUALLY REIMBURSED FOR, BUT ABOUT 8% COULD POTENTIALLY BE FURTHER MINIMIZED BY MORE CLOSELY MONITORING EMPLOYEE TIME USAGE THROUGHOUT THE WEEK. REVIEW OF THE SAMPLE ALSO SHOWED THAT OVERTIME WAS PAID FOR ACCURATELY ABOUT 92% OF THE TIME, WITH MOST INACCURACIES BEING DUE TO MANUAL TIME CARD ADJUSTMENT ISSUES. WHILE OVERTIME PAYMENTS ARE GENERALLY ACCURATE, THE CITY'S POLICY IS MORE GENEROUS TO ITS EMPLOYEES THAN REQUIRED BY FEDERAL LAW AND MORE GENEROUS THAN MOST CITIES IN THREE WAYS. ONE, IT COUNTS HOLIDAY, VACATION AND PAID MILITARY LEAVE AS HOURS WORKED. TWO, IT ADOPTS LOWER OVERTIME THRESHOLDS FOR FIRE PROTECTION EMPLOYEES AND SOME LAW ENFORCEMENT EMPLOYEES. AND THREE, IT COUNTS THE OVERTIME COUNTS. THE HOURS USED TO CALCULATE ON CALL SHIFT PAYS AS TIME WORKED, BASED ON A REVIEW OF A STATISTICAL SAMPLE OF 400 PAY STUBS WITH OVERTIME PAYMENTS. THESE THREE POLICY CHOICES. WE ESTIMATE THAT THESE THREE POLICY CHOICES RESULT IN ABOUT $4.5 MILLION IN UNNECESSARY OVERTIME COSTS ANNUALLY, BECAUSE THE HOURS ARE NOT ACTUALLY BEING WORKED AS OUTLINED IN THE BOTTOM TABLE. DESPITE THE ADDITIONAL COSTS, ORGANIZATIONS MAY FIND THAT PAYING EXISTING EMPLOYEES OVERTIME IS MORE ECONOMICAL THAN HIRING ADDITIONAL EMPLOYEES, ESPECIALLY WHEN NECESSARY. OVERTIME HOURS ARE LOW, VARIABLE, OR INCONSISTENT. STILL, FEDERAL GUIDANCE SUGGESTS THAT LONG WORK HOURS AND EXTENDED OR REGULAR WORK SHIFTS CAN BE PHYSICALLY, MENTALLY, AND EMOTIONALLY STRESSFUL ON EMPLOYEES, LEADING TO INCREASED FATIGUE, STRESS, AND LACK OF CONCENTRATION, AND ARE NOT ALWAYS ASSOCIATED WITH INCREASED PRODUCTIVITY, ESPECIALLY AFTER 50 HOURS IN ONE WEEK. FOR THESE REASONS, EMPLOYERS SHOULD BE USING SHOULD USE SCHEDULING AND TIME TRACKING SOFTWARE TO TRACK OVERTIME USAGE METRICS AT BOTH THE INDIVIDUAL, EMPLOYEE AND DEPARTMENT DIVISION WIDE LEVELS TO AVOID EXCESSIVE OVERTIME USAGE. SPECIFICALLY, WHEN EMPLOYEES OVERTIME COSTS EXCEED 50% OF THEIR BASE SALARY, HIRING AN ADDITIONAL EMPLOYEE MAY BECOME USUALLY BECOMES BENEFICIAL. SIMILARLY, WHEN OVERTIME IS MORE THAN 10% OF PAYROLL COSTS, OVERALL, ADDITIONAL STAFF PROCESS IMPROVEMENTS OR SCHEDULE OPTIMIZATION MAY BE NEEDED. HISTORICALLY, THE CITY HAS ESTABLISHED EXPECTED OVERTIME HOURS AND ASSOCIATED COST BUDGETS FOR EACH POSITION AND DIVISION THROUGH THE ANNUAL BUDGET PROCESS. WHILE CITY DEPARTMENTS HAVE GENERALLY NOT EXCEEDED THEIR OVERALL PERSONNEL COST BUDGETS, OVERALL OVERTIME HOURS HAVE BEEN SIGNIFICANTLY UNDER BUDGETED FOR THE LAST THREE FISCAL YEARS. THREE DEPARTMENTS FIRE, POLICE AND DENTON MUNICIPAL ELECTRIC, WHICH ALL REGULARLY BENEFIT FROM MORE THAN ONE OF THOSE THREE POLICY CHOICES I MENTIONED EARLIER, MAKE UP ABOUT 90% OF THESE HOURLY OVERTIME BUDGET VARIANCES, FURTHER ILLUSTRATING THE IMPACT OF THE POLICY CHOICES. FURTHER, THE CITY USES FOUR SEPARATE SYSTEMS TO BUDGET, SCHEDULE, RECORD AND PAY ITS EMPLOYEES FOR THEIR TIME WORKED, AS ILLUSTRATED IN THE FIGURE ON THE SLIDE. SORRY, WHERE DO WE GO? OH. WHILE EACH OF THESE SYSTEMS IS GENERALLY EFFECTIVE, THIS SETUP HINDERS FRONTLINE SUPERVISORS OVERTIME MONITORING BECAUSE ONE THERE'S NO WAGE INFORMATION STORED IN THE TIME TRACKING SOFTWARE, MEANING THE ACTUAL COST ASSOCIATED WITH EACH EMPLOYEES OVERTIME CAN'T BE TRACKED AT THAT LEVEL. TWO THE TIME TRACKING SOFTWARE HAS NOT HISTORICALLY IDENTIFIED WHEN HOURS WORKED WILL BE PAID AT THE OVERTIME RATE, WHICH, DUE TO THE POLICY CHOICES DESCRIBED PREVIOUSLY, MEANS THAT SOME OVERTIME COSTS MAY BE HIDDEN FROM SUPERVISORS BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT CLEAR. IT'S NOT CLEAR THAT THEIR OVERTIME IN THE SYSTEM AND THREE OVERTIME. OUR BUDGETS ARE GENERALLY NOT AVAILABLE TO SUPERVISORS THROUGHOUT THE FISCAL YEAR FOR REFERENCE. SO EVEN IF SUPERVISORS KNOW HOW MUCH OVERTIME THEIR EMPLOYEES ARE ACTUALLY WORKING, THEY MAY NOT BE ABLE TO EASILY EVALUATE IF THAT AMOUNT IS REASONABLE BASED ON THE ESTABLISHED EXPECTATIONS.

DESPITE THESE OVERTIME MONITORING ISSUES, WE FOUND THAT MOST EMPLOYEES ARE NOT ACTUALLY WORKING EXCESSIVE HOURS NOR RECEIVING EXCESSIVE AMOUNTS OF OVERTIME PAY.

SPECIFICALLY, ONLY 2% OF EMPLOYEES REGULARLY WORK MORE THAN 90 HOURS EACH PAY PERIOD, AND ONLY 46 OF THE 3400 PEOPLE EMPLOYED DURING THE LAST THREE FISCAL YEARS RECEIVED OVERTIME PAY GREATER THAN 50% OF THEIR BASE SALARY. FURTHER, BASED ON REVIEW OF WORK MANAGEMENT METRICS, CITY DIVISIONS WITH EMPLOYEES THAT REGULARLY WORK EXCESSIVE HOURS GENERALLY APPEAR TO HAVE HIGHER VACANCY RATES OR MAY NEED ADDITIONAL STAFF. THESE DIVISIONS ARE OUTLINED IN APPENDIX B OF THE AUDIT REPORT. SO IN SUMMARY, WE ISSUED THREE RECOMMENDATIONS, ALL OF WHICH THE CITY MANAGER'S OFFICE AGREED WITH. AND BASED ON THIS RESPONSE, WE BELIEVE THE RISK WILL BE APPROPRIATELY ADDRESSED AND PLAN TO PERFORM AN INITIAL FOLLOW UP REVIEW IN FISCAL YEAR 2029 TO GIVE THEM TIME TO IMPLEMENT THESE THINGS AND GET ENOUGH DATA TO SEE IF WHAT'S CHANGED. UNLESS COUNCIL WOULD LIKE TO DIRECT US TO PERFORM A REVIEW SOONER. THAT'S

THE WHOLE AUDIT. >> ALL RIGHT. NO. ANY QUESTIONS? YES, COUNCILMEMBER HOLLAND.

[00:15:03]

>> I THINK IT WAS BACK AROUND SLIDE THREE. HOURS NOT ACTUALLY WORKED.

>> YES. >> THIS IS KIND OF A RHETORICAL QUESTION, BUT DOES SOMEBODY

KNOW WHEN THEY'RE NOT ACTUALLY WORKING? >> YES.

>> OKAY. AND THAT AND THAT BY ITSELF IS MY QUESTION. >> THE EMPLOYEE WOULD KNOW. BUT THE WAY THAT THE SYSTEM IS SET UP AND THE POLICIES ARE SET UP, SOMETIMES THEY ARE GETTING OVERTIME PAY WHEN THEY'RE NOT ACTUALLY FOR HOURS, THAT THEY'RE ON VACATION OR ON LEAVE

BASICALLY ON, ON HOLIDAY LEAVE. >> OKAY. AND IS THAT NOT CORRECTABLE?

>> I BELIEVE IT. >> IS CORRECT. RETROACTIVELY. I MEAN, OH.

>> I DON'T KNOW. I THINK THAT'S MORE OF A LEGAL. I DON'T KNOW THAT WE COULD GO BACK AND SAY, EVERY EMPLOYEE YOU OWE US, WHO KNOWS HOW MUCH MONEY. I DON'T THINK THAT'S CORRECTABLE, IF

THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE ASKING. >> WELL, UNJUST ENRICHMENT. THE THE THE PERSON WAS RECEIVING

MONEY FOR HOURS, IN FACT, NOT WORKED. >> YEAH. BUT IT WAS IT WAS IN COMPLIANCE WITH OUR CURRENT POLICY. SO IT'S THEY LEGALLY RECEIVED THAT MONEY. SO GOING FORWARD, IF WE CHANGED OUR POLICY, WE WOULD BE ABLE TO STOP THAT FROM OCCURRING. BUT WE CAN'T GO BACK AND SAY, WELL, WE DIDN'T REALLY MEAN TO GIVE YOU THAT MONEY BECAUSE OUR

POLICY SAID WE DID. >> WOULD YOU RECOMMEND THAT THAT POLICY BE CHANGED?

>> MY RECOMMENDATION IS TO AMEND THE POLICY TO MORE CLOSELY ALIGN WITH FEDERAL

GUIDELINES. >> I WOULD I WOULD CERTAINLY SUPPORT THAT. THANK YOU. MAYOR.

>> YES. >> GO AHEAD. I JUST WANTED TO MAKE A NOTE THAT WHILE THE POLICY THE OVERTIME POLICY WAS UPDATED LAST YEAR IN 2025, THE THE BONES OF THIS POLICY HAS BEEN AROUND SINCE THE 80S. AND THAT IS HOW WE HAVE BEEN INTERPRETING OVERTIME SINCE THAT TIME. SO THIS IS A LONG STANDING PRACTICE. AND SO WE WHILE WE AGREE THAT THE OVERTIME POLICY NEEDS TO BE UPDATED, THIS IS GOING TO DIRECTLY IMPACT OUR EMPLOYEES.

AND SO WE WANT TO BE VERY INTENTIONAL AND STRATEGIC IN HOW WE PUT TOGETHER OUR OUR POLICY RECOMMENDATIONS. SO WE'RE PUTTING TOGETHER A STAKEHOLDER GROUP COMPRISED OF ALL DIFFERENT REPRESENTATIVES FROM ALL DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS THAT WE'RE GOING TO WORK THROUGH. WE DON'T EXPECT THIS TO BE A QUICK FIX, AND I EXPECT IT TO TAKE AT LEAST A YEAR TO GET TO COUNCIL FOR RECOMMENDATION ON UPDATES TO THE POLICY, BECAUSE IT'S NOT A ONE SIZE FITS ALL. WHAT WORKS FOR UTILITIES ISN'T GOING TO WORK FOR PUBLIC SAFETY. AND SO THERE'S THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT AREAS TO CONSIDER. AND SO WE'RE GOING TO WORK

THROUGH THOSE CHANGES AND BRING YOU BACK A RECOMMENDATION. >> YES.

>> OKAY. TO THAT END, AND I DON'T KNOW WHO I'M DIRECTING THIS QUESTION TO IS, IS THERE A IS THERE ONE DEPARTMENT THAT THAT IS, IS A GREATER. I HATE TO USE THE WORD OFFENDER THAN

THAN ANOTHER. >> YES. THE POLICE DEPARTMENT IN PARTICULAR HAS A LOT OF OVERTIME BECAUSE OF THE WAY THE SYSTEM CALCULATES THEIR HOLIDAY AND THEIR VACATION LEAVE. THEY ARE OFTEN GETTING OVERTIME DURING THOSE WEEKS WHERE THEY'RE NOT ACTUALLY WORKING OVER 40 OR 80 HOURS, BECAUSE ESSENTIALLY, IF THEY WORK THEIR NORMAL SCHEDULE, IT'S 80 HOURS.

AND THEN IF A HOLIDAY OCCURRED THAT DAY, THEN NOW THEY HAVE EIGHT HOURS OF OVERTIME IS HOW THE SYSTEM CALCULATES IT RIGHT NOW. WHICH IS NOT TO SAY THEY SHOULDN'T BE GETTING THEIR EIGHT HOURS OF HOLIDAY PAY, BUT IT SHOULDN'T BE AT THE OVERTIME RATE.

>> I SEE, YEAH. OKAY. SO IT'S IT'S, IT'S THAT THAT IS THE PROBLEM. IT SOUNDS LIKE RATHER THAN SOMEBODY SAYING AT HOME AND I'M, I'M CLAIMING TO BE AT WORK, OKAY.

>> THE PROBLEM IS REALLY THE POLICY AND HOW THE SYSTEM IS CALCULATING THE HOURS BASED ON

THE POLICY. >> I SEE. VERY GOOD. I'M MORE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT. THANK

YOU. THANK YOU BOTH. >> YES, COUNCILMEMBER. >> COUNCILMEMBER HOLLAND, I HAD THE SAME QUESTION LAST WEEK. WE GOT TO ASK MADISON AHEAD OF TIME. MADISON, THANK YOU FOR FOR ALL YOUR WORK ON THIS. I REALLY APPRECIATE THE TIME AND DETAIL THAT YOU'VE PUT INTO THIS. I TEND TO AGREE WITH COUNCIL MEMBER HOLLAND ON, YOU KNOW, VACATION HOURS COUNTING AS HOURS WORKED, WHICH IS BASICALLY CONTRIBUTING TO OVERTIME WHEN THEY DIDN'T ACTUALLY PHYSICALLY WORK MORE THAN 40 HOURS. AND BUT I DO APPRECIATE AND I SUPPORT THE TAKING OUR TIME TO DO IT RIGHT AND WORK WITH STAFF. UNDERSTANDING THIS WILL IMPACT STAFF TO UPDATE THIS POLICY. SO I APPRECIATE TAKING THE TIME TO WORK THROUGH IT CAREFULLY AND

THOROUGHLY. THANK YOU. >> OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT.

[B. ID 26-1536 Receive a report, hold a discussion, and give staff direction regarding the implementation of a Council Member-Developer meeting disclosure policy. [Estimated Presentation/Discussion Time: 30 minutes]]

ALL RIGHT. WE'LL GO ON TO THE NEXT AGENDA ITEM, WHICH IS AGENDA ITEM FOUR B. I'D 26-1536.

RECEIVE REPORT, HOLD A DISCUSSION AND GIVE STAFF DIRECTION REGARDING THE IMPLEMENTATION OF A COUNCIL MEMBER DEVELOPER MEETING DISCLOSURE POLICY.

>> I'M MADISON RAUSCH, YOUR DENTON CITY AUDITOR. I'M HERE TO HELP WALK US THROUGH THIS.

I'M GOING TO GIVE OUT A HANDOUT, I THINK, BECAUSE I THINK IT WILL JUST HELP US WORK THROUGH

[00:20:04]

KIND OF THE DIRECTION WE NEED TODAY. >> AND NOBODY HAS TO SQUINT AT

THE LARGE SCREEN. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. >> THERE YOU GO. PARASITES. ALL

RIGHTY. >> SO JUST TO START OFF, THIS ORIGINATED FROM A TWO MINUTE PITCH BY COUNCILMEMBER STEVENS. I DON'T HAVE THE DATES IN FRONT OF ME, BUT I THINK EVERYBODY'S FAMILIAR. AND SO WE WE DID AN ISR AND THEN WE PUT THIS ON THE AGENDA FOR WORK SESSION TO GET MORE DIRECTION ON WHAT THE COUNCIL WOULD LIKE THIS POLICY TO ACTUALLY LOOK LIKE. SO HISTORICALLY, THE CITY OF DENTON HAS ADOPTED KIND OF THREE ETHICS RELATED REGULATIONS THAT APPLY TO CITY COUNCILORS. THE FIRST WAS A RESOLUTION ADOPTED IN 22,006.

SORRY, THAT CREATED SEVEN STANDARDS OF PERSONAL AND PUBLIC CONDUCT FOR CITY COUNCILORS. THE CITY COUNCIL ALSO ADOPTED A RESOLUTION IN 2018 THAT GOVERNED INDIVIDUAL COUNCILOR INTERACTIONS WITH MEMBERS OF THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY AND INDIVIDUALS, GROUPS OR ENTITIES REQUESTING ANY TYPE OF INCENTIVE OR SPECIAL CONSIDERATION BY PROHIBITING COMMUNICATION IN CERTAIN SITUATIONS AND PROVIDING COUNSELORS A METHOD TO DISCLOSE CONVERSATIONS. NEXT, THE CITY COUNCIL ADOPTED AN ETHICS ORDINANCE IN 2018 THAT PROVIDES EXPECTATIONS, MANDATES CERTAIN DISCLOSURES, PROHIBIT CERTAIN CONDUCT, AND ESTABLISHES THE BOARD OF ETHICS. AND YOU ALL SHOULD RECEIVE TRAINING ON THAT EVERY YEAR.

NONE OF THESE EXISTING REGULATIONS CURRENTLY REQUIRE A COUNSELOR TO DISCLOSE PRIVATE MEETINGS WITH DEVELOPERS THAT HAVE A PENDING MATTER BEFORE CITY COUNCIL, WHICH WAS THE LANGUAGE OF COUNCILOR STEVENS REQUEST. AT LEAST THEY DON'T REQUIRE THAT. TO OUR KNOWLEDGE, WE REVIEWED THESE THREE POLICIES RESOLUTIONS. THEY DON'T REQUIRE THAT CURRENTLY.

SO IF COUNCIL WOULD LIKE TO IMPLEMENT THAT POLICY, STAFF NEEDS DIRECTION ON BASICALLY KIND OF SEVEN ITEMS, SEVEN QUESTIONS. I PROVIDED SOME OPTIONS. THAT'S WHAT'S ON YOUR HANDOUT. THESE ARE JUST I REVIEWED MOST OF THESE QUESTIONS. DON'T HAVE A CLEAR ANSWER ALREADY WITHIN OUR OWN CODE. AND I REVIEWED FORT WORTH, DALLAS AND AUSTIN'S CODES AND DIDN'T FIND SIMILAR PRO SIMILAR REQUIREMENTS. SO THESE ARE LITERALLY THINGS I MADE UP. SO PLEASE, IF YOU HAVE BETTER IDEAS, I'M VERY OPEN. BUT THIS IS THE BULK OF WHAT WE'RE DOING.

>> OKAY. >> YEAH. >> ALL RIGHT. OPEN IT UP FOR

QUESTIONS. COMMENTS. MAYOR PRO TEM. >> I DO HAVE ONE QUESTION.

MIGHT BE FOR LEGAL, BUT IF WE WERE TO COME TO A DECISION TODAY, WOULD THERE WOULD WE STILL BE ON POSTING? IF I WERE TO SUGGEST THAT WHATEVER APPLIES TO US OUGHT TO ALSO

APPLY TO PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSIONERS. >> I MEAN, TECHNICALLY WE'RE NOT POSTED FOR PNC, BUT I THINK IT'S A FAIR POINT YOU COULD RAISE WITHOUT GETTING INTO THE DETAIL OF THE FULL CONVERSATION. BUT I THINK IF YOU WANT TO MAKE THE POINT THAT WHATEVER WE WORKED OUT HERE, LET'S LET'S CONSIDER THAT FOR THE PNC, WE COULD TAKE THAT DIRECTION.

>> OKAY. THANKS. >> OKAY. YES, COUNCILMEMBER RUMOHR.

>> I THOUGHT YOU WERE GOING TO STEAL MY QUESTION. I WAS I WAS CURIOUS, AND I HOPE WE WILL CONSIDER IF WE SHOULD APPLY THIS ALSO TO CANDIDATES FOR CITY COUNCIL WHO HAVE FORMALLY SUBMITTED THEIR CANDIDACY. SO THROW THAT OUT THERE. IN ADDITION TO PNC.

>> YES, MAYOR PRO TEM. >> I DON'T REALLY SEE ANY QUESTION. SO I'M GOING TO JUST GET THE BALL ROLLING AND START GIVING DIRECTION OF ANSWERING THESE QUESTIONS. SURE. WHERE I STAND RIGHT NOW, YOU'RE ASKING WHO DISCLOSURES SHOULD BE MADE TO. I WOULD SAY THE CITY AUDITOR. WHEN SHOULD THE DISCLOSURES BE MADE. I'D LIKE TO SEE A COMBINATION OF OPTION ONE AND TWO, WHERE WE HAVE THAT TIME LIMIT OF TEN WITHIN TEN BUSINESS DAYS OF IT OCCURRING.

A LOG MAINTAINED AND. ONE DAY PRIOR TO DELIBERATING ON THE ON THE MATTER, COUNCIL IS ALSO NOTIFIED OF IT. WHAT SHOULD BE DISCLOSED? I THINK IT SHOULD BE THE INDIVIDUAL YOU MET WITH. I THINK IT SHOULD BE THE DEVELOPER OR A COMPANY THEY WORK WITH AS WELL, AS WELL AS THE DATE OF THE PRIVATE MEETING. AND WHAT THE PENDING MATTER IS. I DON'T WANT AN EXPLANATION OF HOW THE MEETING WENT BECAUSE THAT'S SUBJECT TO INTERPRETATION. WHAT IS A PENDING MATTER? I LIKE OPTION ONE. I PREFER THAT. WHAT IS A DEVELOPER? I PREFER OPTION ONE.

[00:25:11]

AND THEN THE LAST TWO QUESTIONS. PRIVATE MEETING AND WHERE SHOULD BE CODIFIED. OPTION ONE.

OKAY. >> THANK YOU. >> OKAY, COUNCILMEMBER.

>> MAYOR, MAY I REQUEST WE GO THROUGH THESE ONE AT A TIME? BECAUSE MY EXPERIENCE HAS BEEN WHEN WE ALL GIVE OUR ENTIRE DIRECTION, WE GET REALLY TIED INTO A KNOT. SO I'M SORRY THAT

YOU MAY HAVE TO REPEAT YOURSELF. >> OPTION ONE I'LL START WITH THE FIRST. I'D LIKE TO THE

DISCLOSURES TO BE MADE TO THE CITY AUDITOR. >> OKAY.

>> ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU FOR THAT. ON THAT ONE. IT TO ME IT'S REALLY I'M OPEN TO WHO IT'S MADE TO JUST WHATEVER MAKES THE MOST SENSE TO STAFF IN TERMS OF WHO SHOULD BE DOING

THE RECORD KEEPING. >> AND I THINK. >> THIS IS THE ONLY AREA WHERE I WOULD RECOMMEND IT BE ME ONLY TO SO THAT IT'S ALL KIND OF CENTRALIZED IN ONE PLACE. I'M ALREADY DOING THAT FOR THE ETHICS ORDINANCE. SO THAT'S THE ONLY, MY ONLY REAL RECOMMENDATION IS I JUST THINK IT WOULD HELP. AND I COULD PROVIDE TRAINING ALONG WITH THE

ETHICS ORDINANCE ON THE DISCLOSURE AS WELL. >> I'M HAPPY FOR THAT.

>> OKAY. >> COUNCILMEMBER HOLLAND. >> TO THAT, I WOULD LIKE TO TO RESPOND TO THE CITY MANAGER. I ALREADY HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH THE CITY MANAGER. WE HAVE MEETINGS FREQUENTLY. I THINK THAT WOULD BE AN EASY CONDUIT FOR AT LEAST FOR ME. I'D PREFER

THAT. >> COUNCILMAN PERRY. >> I'M GOING TO AGREE WITH THE

CITY AUDITOR BECAUSE OF THE UMBRELLA OF WHICH YOU TRAVEL. >> OKAY. I THINK IN THE PAST, BECAUSE WE HAVE, AS YOU MENTIONED, WE HAVE A VOLUNTARY PROCESS.

>> AND THAT DID GO TO THE CITY MANAGER. >> AND THAT WENT TO THE CITY MANAGER. AND THAT'S WHERE I'VE BEEN MAKING MINE. SO I PROBABLY WOULD TEND TO THINK THAT THAT'S WHERE I'M INDIFFERENT. I MEAN, HELP ME UNDERSTAND, MADISON, JUST THE RATIONALE AGAIN FOR

THE CITY AUDITOR. >> IT'S REALLY JUST LIKE AN ADMINISTRATIVE THING AS FAR AS LIKE WE ALREADY RETAIN DISCLOSURES FOR CONFLICTS OF INTEREST. WE HAVE A PROCESS FOR LOGGING THOSE THINGS. I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE CITY MANAGER'S PROCESS FOR DISCLOSURES THAT Y'ALL MAKE TO TO HER CURRENTLY. SO THAT WAS MY ONLY THOUGHT THERE, JUST

THAT WE ALREADY KIND OF HAVE THAT SET UP. >> OKAY. DO YOU HAVE ANY

THOUGHTS? >> I DON'T HAVE A PREFERENCE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. I'M I'M FINE WITH WHATEVER COUNCIL WANTS TO DO. I MEAN, I DO RECEIVE THEM NOW. I KEEP A LIST

OF THEM. AND THAT'S THE EXTENT OF WHAT I DO WITH THEM. >> OKAY. AND LET ME LOOK HERE.

SO WHAT IS ON HERE? WHAT WHAT WE NEED TO HOW WE HANDLE THOSE. IT SAYS WHERE SHOULD WE REQUIRE? HOW DO WE HANDLE THOSE? I MEAN, I KNOW THAT AT ONE POINT I WAS SORT OF ECHOING THE SAME POTENTIAL POLICY, BUT MINE WAS, LET'S, LET'S MAKE IT AVAILABLE SOMEWHERE ON THE WEBSITE JUST, JUST SO THAT THE PUBLIC HAS ACCESS TO IT. SO NO MATTER WHO IT GOES TO. IS THAT PART OF THE

DISCUSSION TODAY ON HOW WE HANDLE THAT? OKAY. >> YES, I THINK THAT'S IN THE

SECOND QUESTION. >> OKAY. WHAT WHAT SHOULD BE DISCLOSED? OKAY. AND MAYBE.

>> BY WHEN? AND IT DOES KIND OF TALK ABOUT MAYBE THERE'S A LOG. YEAH.

>> OKAY. ANYBODY GOT A QUARTER? I'M JUST GOING TO FLIP A COIN. YEAH, I THINK I GUESS I'LL GO WITH THE CITY AUDITOR ONLY BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE YOU'RE ALREADY HANDLING THESE IN A WAY THAT'S MORE THAN JUST KIND OF, OH, SOMETHING'S COMING IN. I'LL PUT IT OUT THERE A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A, I DON'T WANT TO SAY A NOT SPECIAL HANDLING, BUT THERE'S.

>> A LITTLE MORE OF A FORMAL PROCESS. >> FORMAL PROCESS. OKAY. THAT'S FINE. ALL RIGHT. OKAY. AND THEN ARE WE JUST GOING TO GO THROUGH THE OPTIONS ONE, TWO AND THREE FOR EACH ONE OF THESE LIKE, OKAY. BUT WHEN WHEN SHOULD DISCLOSURE BE MADE. YOUR

DIRECTION WAS MAYOR PRO TEM. >> I'D LIKE TO SEE A COMBINATION OF BOTH WHERE IT'S REQUIRED WITHIN TEN DAYS OF IT OCCURRING. TO YOUR POINT, A PUBLIC LOG IS MAINTAINED. I'D ADD TO THAT. MADISON IF COUNCIL MEMBERS COULD ALSO BE NOTIFIED. ONE DAY PRIOR TO A PENDING

MATTER. DELIBERATING ON A PENDING MATTER. >> COUNCIL MEMBER RUMOHR.

>> I ALIGN ALSO WITH THE TEN DAY WITHIN TEN DAYS OF OCCURRENCE. AND YOU KNOW, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THE DAY BEFORE THE MEETING, BUT JUST AS PART OF OUR AGENDA SO THAT WE

KNOW, YOU KNOW, WHO'S MET WITH THIS PERSON AND WHO HASN'T. >> OKAY. YES. COUNCILMAN PERRY.

>> YEAH. I AGREE WITH THE COMBINATION OF OPTION ONE. OPTION TWO FOR BY WHEN SHOULD

DISCLOSURES BE MADE, WHICH IS MAYOR PRO TEM OKAY. >> COUNCIL MEMBER HOLLAND.

>> WITHIN TEN DAYS. AND IS THAT TEN DAYS PRIOR OR TEN DAYS POST? >> I BELIEVE IT WOULD BE TEN

[00:30:04]

DAYS. POST THE CONVERSATION. >> AFTER THE CONVERSATION. >> YES.

>> VERY GOOD. WITHIN TEN DAYS. >> CORRECT. >> OKAY, SO WITHIN TEN DAYS.

AND THEN THE OTHER OPTION WAS EITHER AT THE AT ONE DAY BEFORE THE MEETING. IS THAT IS THAT

WHAT YOU'RE. AND THEN. >> I'M BASICALLY ASKING FOR BOTH, LIKE THE TEN DAYS OF IT

OCCURRING AND ALSO INFORM COUNCIL. >> AND COUNCILMEMBER, YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE TEN DAYS. BUT THEN THERE WAS SOMETHING YOU SAID, IF IT'S ON THE AGENDA.

>> YEAH, MAYOR PRO TEM KIND OF SAID DAY BEFORE, BUT I WAS SORT OF ADJUSTING THAT TO JUST, I JUST NEED IT TO BE AS PART OF THE AGENDA PACKET ONCE THAT ITEM COMES TO US.

>> OKAY. >> WHICH I AGREE WITH THAT. >> OKAY.

>> ALL RIGHT. EVERYBODY OKAY WITH THAT? COUNCILMEMBER HOLLAND, ARE YOU OKAY WITH THAT?

>> RESTATE THAT. >> SURE THAT IT'S THE TEN DAYS AFTER AND ALSO THAT IT JUST BE THE DISCLOSURE, BE PART OF THE AGENDA PACKET FOR THAT PARTICULAR PENDING ITEM WHEN IT COMES TO COUNCIL. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. I DO LIKEWISE. ALL RIGHT. WHAT SHOULD BE DISCLOSED, MAYOR

PRO TEM SURE. >> I THINK THAT THE THE NAME OF THE INDIVIDUAL OR INDIVIDUALS YOU MET WITH THE DEVELOPMENT COMPANY NAME AS WELL, THE DATE OF THE PRIVATE MEETING AND THE

PENDING MATTER OR PROJECT THAT WAS DISCUSSED. >> OKAY. COUNCIL MEMBER PERRY.

>> I AGREE AND I SUPPORT THAT. >> COUNCILMEMBER. >> I DON'T SEE MUCH CHOICE ON

THAT ONE, SO I'LL GO WITH THAT TOO. >> OKAY.

>> I AGREE, JUST I GUESS ON PENDING MATTER, IT'S POSSIBLE THERE COULD BE A MEETING BEFORE IT'S OFFICIALLY, OFFICIALLY PENDING MATTER. IT COULD BECOME A PENDING MATTER. SO I, YOU KNOW, JUST WHAT WAS IT REGARDING WHAT PROJECT IS SUFFICIENT FOR ME IF WE DON'T

KNOW, LIKE AN AGENDA YET. >> RIGHT? RIGHT. >> YEAH. BECAUSE MOST OF THE TIME, A LOT OF THESE CONVERSATIONS MAY OCCUR BEFORE ANYTHING'S REALLY EVER DONE.

YEAH. AND SO IT'S JUST, AND I WOULD AGREE WITH THIS, THE NAME, WHO IT IS, THE DATE. AND THEN JUST LIKE IF IT WAS, I'M NOT TRYING TO PICK SOMEBODY THAT'S NOT X, Y, Z. WE MET THIS DATE AND IT'S ABOUT A POTENTIAL DEVELOPMENT PROJECT. I MEAN, JUST YEAH. OKAY. ALL RIGHT.

WHAT IS A PENDING MATTER? SO MAYOR PRO TEM, I'M JUST GONNA LOOK TO YOU ON EACH ONE OF THESE FIRST, JUST BECAUSE YOU SAID THEM ALL FIRST. AND SO GO AHEAD.

>> I GAVE DIRECTION, BUT THEN I ACTUALLY WANT TO ASK YOU BEFORE I REDO THAT, IF YOU COULD DO YOU HAVE A RECOMMENDATION BETWEEN OPTION ONE AND TWO HERE? I MEAN, I SEE BENEFITS TO BOTH.

I'M RIGHT NOW I'M AT OPTION ONE, BUT I WANT TO HEAR IF YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHT ON THAT.

>> I, I THINK IF WE IF WE THINK ABOUT THE WAY A STATUTE MIGHT BE CONSTRUCTED. SO IT DEPENDS A LITTLE BIT ON WHERE YOU PUT IT. THE OPTION ONE PENDING MATTER DEFINITION COMES STRAIGHT OUT OF THE ETHICS ORDINANCE. SO IF YOU PUT IT IN THERE, BUT THEN DEFINE DEVELOPER KIND OF AS YOU SUGGESTED WITH OPTION ONE A LOT, SOME OF THIS DOESN'T APPLY. LIKE I THINK IT'S FAIRLY CLEAR THEN WHEN IT WOULD APPLY, BUT I DON'T THINK I THINK IT'S THE, YOU KNOW, OPTION TWO IS PRETTY SIMILAR, ESPECIALLY IF YOU KEEP THAT SAME DEFINITION OF DEVELOPER. LIKE I THINK IT KIND

OF HINGES ON THAT. >> OKAY. I AT THIS POINT, I'M FOR OPTION ONE.

>> OPTION ONE IS, IS BROADER, BUT IN THE CONTEXT OF DEVELOPER, IT NARROWS IT. YEAH.

>> YES. COUNCILMEMBER. COUNCILMEMBER. >> THANK YOU. THE THIRD OPTION.

WHAT, WHAT WHAT WERE YOU REFERRING TO A CASE INVOLVING THE CITY.

>> YEAH. SO AGAIN THAT COMES STRAIGHT OUT OF THOSE 312, THREE COME STRAIGHT OUT OF THE ETHICS ORDINANCE. AND A CASE IS LIKE A LEGAL CASE OR A CASE BEFORE AN ADMINISTRATIVE

TRIBUNAL. THAT'S WHAT IT'S REFERRING TO. >> OKAY. THAT WAS EXACTLY THAT WAS EXACTLY WHAT I WAS WONDERING, BECAUSE I WAS CONTACTED NOT LONG AGO BY A CONSTITUENT THAT HAD A, A, A TRAFFIC TICKET. JUST QUITE HONESTLY, LIKE, I'VE GOT SOME AUTHORITY WITH THAT. BUT NONETHELESS, I WAS CONTACTED. YEAH, I FOUND HIM GUILTY.

>> THANK YOU. >> JUDGE. >> FIND HIM. YEAH. OKAY. AND NO,

I DIDN'T. WOULD THAT BE WOULD THAT BE REPORTABLE UNDER THIS? >> I THINK IT DEPENDS ON THE WAY YOU DEFINE DEVELOPER. SO IF YOU JUST KIND OF WENT WITH IF YOU DEFINED PENDING MATTER UNDER OPTION ONE, BUT THEN DEFINE DEVELOPER MORE BROADLY UNDER OPTION TWO, IT MIGHT BE, BUT IF YOU DEFINE DEVELOPER MORE NARROWLY, WHERE IT'S JUST PEOPLE THAT HAVE KIND OF THESE DEVELOPMENT APPLICATIONS OR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT APPLICATIONS, THEN NO, IT WOULD

NOT BE WOULD BE MY INITIAL GUESS. >> AND THAT WOULD AND THAT

[00:35:04]

WOULD BE MY INTERPRETATION. >> BUT YEAH. >> I AGREE WITH YOUR

INTERPRETATION. >> OKAY. >> OVERRULED.

>> THANK YOU. YES. >> I'M OPTION TWO ON THIS ONE. I THINK IT MORE NARROW OR IT BETTER AIMS OR TARGETS. WHAT I FEEL LIKE WE'RE AIMING FOR ON THIS PARTICULAR POLICY. SO I'M OPTION TWO ON THIS ONE. THE OTHER ONES I THINK TOO BROAD FOR ME.

>> COUNCILMEMBER HOLLAND REFRESH MY MEMORY. WERE YOU OPTION ONE. OPTION TWO, NUMBER

ONE. OKAY. AND YOU WERE OPTION ONE. OKAY, COUNCILMEMBER PERRY. >> I'M ALSO OPTION ONE.

>> OKAY. AND I DON'T LIKE ONLY FIVE PEOPLE BEING HERE. >> AND I'LL ADD SORRY. AND I'LL ADD, I THINK WHY I'M NOT OPTION TWO IS IT'S VERY SPECIFIC IN PENDING DEVELOPMENT. WHEN WE JUST TALKED ABOUT IN THE PREVIOUS STEP, IF IT'S NOT A PENDING MATTER, WE CALL OTHER INFORMATION PROJECT, RIGHT? LIKE IF A DEVELOPER HAS NOT SUBMITTED ANY TYPE OF REQUEST OR HAD ANY CONVERSATIONS WITH CITY ABOUT A POTENTIAL DEVELOPMENT EXISTING, WE'RE ASKING FOR THE NAME, THE COMPANY, THE DATE, AND EITHER THE PROJECT OR THE PENDING MATTER CURRENTLY IN IN THE WORKS. SO BY GOING TO OPTION TWO, WE'RE REALLY NARROWING IT DOWN TO SOMETHING THAT IS CURRENTLY IN THE WORKS IS WHAT I'M TO UNDERSTAND FROM THAT

LANGUAGE. AM I, AM I WRONG? MADISON? >> I WOULD I WOULD INTERPRET IT

THAT WAY. YES. >> OKAY. >> THANK YOU.

>> YEAH. SO I WOULD THEN OPTION ONE. >> OKAY. YES.

>> WITH YOUR PERMISSION, WHAT IF YOU WERE TO CHANGE THAT TO AN APPLICATION SEEKING APPROVAL OR A PERMIT OR A PROPOSAL, ENTER INTO A CONTRACT OR AGREEMENT. MAKE. MAKE ONE. TAKE

CARE OF TWO. >> IS THAT COULD YOU REPEAT THAT SO WELL.

>> YOU YOU WERE YOU WERE CONFLICTED BY BY THE BY THE CHOICES. I JUST THOUGHT IF YOU IN FACT INVOLVE ALL THREE. SURE. AS AS ONE, AS ONE INSTEAD OF THREE CHOICES.

>> WELL, THIS IS PROBABLY. THE LAW SCHOOL STUDENT IN ME. BUT WHEN I SEE ANY PENDING DEVELOPMENT OR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT CASE THAT REQUIRES FORMAL COUNCIL APPROVAL, I THINK SOME MAY BE READING INTO THAT THAT THERE'S A SPECIFIC APPLICATION OR THERE'S SOME SPECIFIC PERMIT REQUESTS OR SOME SPECIFIC TO ME, WHAT IS PENDING MEAN? I MEAN, PENDING COULD BE SOMEBODY COME IN AND TALK TO US ABOUT, HEY, WE'RE THINKING ABOUT PUTTING THIS PROJECT IN AND WE'RE NOT, WE HAVEN'T DONE IT YET. BUT SO I THINK, COUNCILMEMBER HOLLAND, YOU HAVE AN INTERESTING RESOLUTION TO THAT IS, DO WE WANT TO JUST COMBINE THOSE TWO? BECAUSE WHEN IT SAYS AN APPLICATION SEEKING APPROVAL OR A PERMIT, IF I'M TALKING TO SOMEBODY WHO IS NOT PUT IN AN APPLICATION SEEKING APPROVAL OR PERMIT, OR IT'S NOT A PROPOSAL TO ENTER INTO A CONTRACT AGREEMENT, AND IT'S NOT A QUOTE UNQUOTE CASE INVOLVING THE CITY.

I DON'T HAVE TO DISCLOSE IT. SO IF SOMEBODY COMES AND TALKS TO ME ABOUT A THOUSAND ACRE SUBDIVISION, THAT'S JUST NOT EVEN ON THE RADAR, THAT WON'T CUT IT, THAT WON'T. WHEREAS IF THEY'RE COMING TO ME AND SAYING, HEY, WE'RE THINKING ABOUT DOING THIS, WE WANT TO DO THIS. SO I THINK PROBABLY I'M OKAY WITH PROBABLY A COMBINATION OF BOTH OF THOSE, BUT WE REALLY NEED TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHAT ARE WE REALLY TRYING TO DO? ARE WE TRYING TO MAKE IT REAL BROAD TO CATCH ANY CONVERSATION ABOUT ANYTHING THAT CONTEMPLATIVELY COULD BE COMING TO THE CITY? SO THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE IN THE BROADNESS FOR ME IS, IS IT SOMEWHERE PRETTY WELL DEFINED DOWN THE PATH, OR IS IT JUST KIND OF AN OPEN CONVERSATION ABOUT, HEY, WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> AND I THINK YOU'VE PERFECTLY HIT ON THE ISSUE OF WHAT IS A PENDING MATTER. THAT'S THAT'S

THE QUESTION. YEAH. >> YEAH, YEAH. >> YOU MEAN PENDING DEVELOPMENT

OR JUST PENDING? >> WHAT DO WE WANT TO DEFINE AS WHAT YOU.

>> NEED TO. YEAH. >> MR. CITY ATTORNEY, DO YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS OR

ANY. >> I GUESS JUST STRUCTURALLY OPTION ONE, I BELIEVE MADISON, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, LINES UP WITH WHAT OUR EXISTING ETHICS ORDINANCE DEFINES AS A

PENDING MATTER. >> THAT'S CORRECT. >> IF WE MOVE AWAY FROM THAT, WE'RE CREATING A NEW CONCEPT THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY FIT INTO OUR EXISTING ETHICS STRUCTURE, WHICH MIGHT BE THE PATH WHERE THIS ENDS UP IN THE ETHICS ORDINANCE. SO JUST THINK ABOUT THAT AS YOU'RE PUTTING TOGETHER A NEW CONCEPT WAS, IT'S GOING TO BE SOMETHING DIFFERENT FROM WHAT WE'VE ALREADY DONE, HISTORICALLY DONE. SO YOU'LL HAVE POTENTIALLY TWO PATHS. SOMETIMES ON A PENDING MATTER, YOU'LL HAVE ETHICAL REQUIREMENTS AND OBLIGATIONS.

BUT FOR THIS, YOU'LL HAVE SOMETHING DIFFERENT. YOU'LL HAVE TO DO. JUST BE MINDFUL OF.

YOU MAY BE SETTING UP TWO DIFFERENT STRUCTURAL REQUIREMENTS THAT YOU HAVE TO

COMPLY WITH. >> OKAY. ALL RIGHT. COUNCIL MEMBER HOLLAND.

>> THIS IS PROBABLY NOT TIMELY, BUT I'M JUST WONDERING IF IF WE NEED TO INFORM THE DEVELOPER, YOUR YOUR EXAMPLE, YOUR THOUSAND ACRE DEVELOPER, THAT I WILL BE REPORTING THIS MEETING BECAUSE IT MIGHT BE SOMETHING THAT, THAT THIS PERSON WANTS TO, YOU KNOW, KIND OF KEEP UNDER

[00:40:01]

WRAPS UNTIL HE'S READY TO DO IT. >> OKAY. WHEN YOU SAY RECORDING THIS MEETING, DO YOU MEAN LIKE PUNCHING A BUTTON AND RECORDING THE CONVERSATION? OR DO YOU JUST MEAN MAKING A NOTE, MAKING

THIS DISCLOSURE? >> DID I SAY RECORDING? >> YES, YES. MAYBE THAT'S WHAT

YOU MEANT. JUST RECORDING IT IN THE SENSE OF THIS DISCLOSURE. >> TELLING, TELLING THE THOUSAND ACRE DEVELOPER THAT I'M GOING TO RECORD, THAT I'M GOING TO REPORT. REPORT IS WHAT I MEANT TO SAY. IF I SAID RECORDING, I MISSPOKE. I BEG YOUR PARDON?

>> ALL RIGHT, ALL RIGHT. OKAY. YES, MAYOR PRO TEM. >> I WOULD LIKE TO THEN SEE A

COMBINATION OF BOTH TO CATCH ALL OF. >> YEAH. SO YOU'RE YOU'RE INTERESTED IN CATCHING THE PROJECT POTENTIAL PROJECT BREADTH. IT SEEMS LIKE MOST PEOPLE HAVE INDICATED THAT THAT'S WHAT THEY WOULD LIKE. SO WE CAN TWEAK SOMETHING TO TRY

TO. >> GET TO THAT. >> AND MACK, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING AND THAT WE'RE CREATING A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT STRUCTURAL ISSUES. ONE, I BELIEVE WITH THE WITH THE ETHICS ORDINANCE, IT APPLIES DIRECTLY TO THE TO THE CITY OFFICIAL THAT IF THEY HAVE A PENDING MATTER, IF WE'RE IF WE'RE TALKING TO A DEVELOPER AND WE DON'T HAVE A FINANCIAL INTEREST IN IT, WELL, THEN IT'S NOT IT'S NOT A PENDING MATTER TO US FROM THE FROM THE STANDPOINT OF THE ETHICS CODE, THE.

>> THE PENDING MATTER DEFINITION USED TO BE A PART OF THE TERM USED TO BE PART OF THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST DEFINITION. IT'S BEEN REMOVED FROM THAT. IT'S STILL IN THE ETHICS ORDINANCE. AND IT'S IT'S STILL IN THE DISCLOSURE SECTION. IT'S USED IN THE DISCLOSURE SECTION FOR THE VERY COMPLICATED. I HAVE A BUSINESS PARTNER WHO HAS A THING THAT. BUT I'M NOT INVOLVED WITH IT. DISCLOSURES THAT HAVE TO BE MADE. SO THAT'S WHERE IT STILL SITS JUST FOR

CONTEXT. >> YEAH. >> ALL RIGHT. BUT BUT IT'S STILL IT'S THERE'S SOME LINK BETWEEN WHATEVER THE ISSUE IS REGARDING, YOU KNOW, THE SUBJECT MATTER OF THE ETHICS CODE, WHETHER IT'S WE CALLED IT A PENDING MATTER BEFORE, BUT IT'S THAT LIST OF WHAT'S A CONFLICT. BUT THERE'S STILL THAT LINK. WHEREAS IF WE'RE IF WE'RE JUST TALKING TO A DEVELOPER OF A GROCERY STORE, UNLESS WE OWN THE LAND OR SOMETHING, THEN IT'S A WHOLE DIFFERENT ISSUE. BUT IT'S, IT'S A, THERE'S NOT THAT.

>> RIGHT. NEXUS. >> THERE'S NOT THAT NEXUS. CORRECT. SO YEAH, I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT. I THINK IT'S JUST KIND OF BROADER THAN JUST THE REAL KIND OF FOR ME. SO I THINK

YOU HAD A DIFFERENT TAKE ON THAT. >> SURE. I'M HEARING KIND OF WHAT WE DIDN'T LIKE ABOUT OPTION TWO WAS PARTIALLY THAT IT SAYS JUST PENDING AND NOT LIKE POTENTIAL MAYBE WOULD IT MAKE IT BETTER OR WORSE IF IT WAS SOMETHING LIKE ANY DEVELOPMENT OR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT CASE THAT WOULD REQUIRE FORMAL COUNCIL ACTION, JUST GET RID OF THE PENDING OR WE COULD SAY POTENTIAL OR PENDING EITHER ONE. SO EITHER TAKE AWAY PENDING FROM OPTION TWO OR ADD POTENTIAL LIKE POTENTIAL OR PENDING HAVE BOTH WORDS. DOES THAT HELP AT ALL WITH KIND OF THE GOALS THAT I'M HEARING? I CAN ALSO SAY IT AGAIN IF I NEED TO. YES PLEASE DO. OKAY, SO THERE IS OPTION ONE IS TO MAKE IT OPTION OR SORRY. OPTION A IS TO MAKE OPTION TWO TO REMOVE A WORD. SO IT COULD BE ANY DEVELOPMENT OR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT CASE THAT WOULD REQUIRE FORMAL COUNCIL ACTION. SO THAT'S OPTION A.

OPTION B COULD BE ANY POTENTIAL OR PENDING DEVELOPMENT OR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT CASE THAT WOULD REQUIRE FORMAL COUNCIL ACTION. SO ONE REMOVES A WORD. ONE ADDS A WORD. DOES ANYBODY

LIKE. ANY ADDRESS ANY ANY CONCERNS OR GOALS THAT WE HAD. >> ANY THOUGHT ON THAT. YES.

MAYOR PRO TEM. >> I FEEL LIKE AT THE END OF THE DAY THEN TO THAT POINT, WE'RE ALL SAYING THE SAME THING. AND SO THAT YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO DRAFT THAT IN THE WHATEVER.

>> HOWEVER. >> I THINK THAT THE LANGUAGE MAKES SENSE TO ME, AND IT WOULD BE A SUFFICIENTLY BROAD TO CATCH KIND OF WHAT IT SEEMS LIKE Y'ALL ARE GIVING DIRECTION

FOR. >> YEAH, YEAH. JUST OKAY. >> WITH THAT. OKAY. ALL RIGHT.

YEAH, JUST SORT OF WORDSMITH THAT AND WE'LL COME BACK WITH IT.

>> WE'LL DO. >> ALL RIGHT. WHAT IS A DEVELOPER MAYOR PRO TEM.

>> OPTION ONE. >> OKAY. ANYONE ELSE? YEAH. COUNCILMEMBER PERRY.

>> OPTION ONE. >> COUNCILMEMBER OPTION ONE ON THIS.

>> AS WELL. >> ALL RIGHT. ANY THOUGHTS, COUNCILMEMBER HALL? VOM.

>> SEEMS TO ME THAT OPTION TWO IS MORE BROAD, BUT. YEAH, OPTION TWO.

>> LET ME READ THIS REAL CAREFULLY. >> I THINK THESE TWO

[00:45:02]

DEFINITIONS REALLY WORK TOGETHER. BECAUSE, BECAUSE IF YOU'VE GOT A MORE NARROW DEFINITION OF WHAT A PENDING MATTER IS, THEN IT'S CLEARER WHAT YOU NEED TO DISCLOSE IF ANYBODY COMES AND APPROACHES YOU ABOUT IT. WHEREAS IF YOU'VE GOT A MORE BROAD DEVELOPMENT, MORE BROAD DEFINITION OF PENDING MATTER, THEN IT YOU NEED TO NARROW IT TO SOME EXTENT BY WHO ARE YOU TALKING TO? RIGHT. AND SO I, I THINK IF WE HAVE A MORE NARROW DEFINITION. WELL, I THINK THAT THIS ONE THAT TALKS ABOUT THE DEVELOPMENT OR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT CASE, WE COULD THEN DEFINE THOSE TO TO BE THESE THINGS. AND THEN IT WOULD APPLY

TO THESE PEOPLE. >> OKAY. YEAH. >> DOES THAT.

>> MAKE SENSE TO EVERYBODY? >> SEEMED TO. >> YES. BECAUSE IT'S BECAUSE IN OPTION TWO, IT SAYS DEVELOPERS, INDIVIDUALS, GROUPS OR ENTITIES. WELL, IF IF WE'RE GOING TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN I'M REPRESENTING, I'M COMING AS MY INDIVIDUAL. I'VE JUST GOT A DEAL EASY. I'M COMING REPRESENTING A, B, C INCORPORATED. AM I INDIVIDUAL? AM I AN ENTITY? IN OTHER WORDS, THAT'S BREAKING DOWN. I MEAN, BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO BE TALKING TO A HUMAN BEING, RIGHT? BUT THAT'S SORT OF DEFINING WHAT THEIR ROLE IS, WHAT THEIR CAPACITY IS IN THEIR ADVOCACY AT THAT MOMENT. IS IT INDIVIDUAL OR IS IT AS A AS A REPRESENTATIVE? WHEREAS HERE NOW P IS CAPITALIZED HERE, WHICH MEANS PERSON HAS TO BE

DEFINED SOMEWHERE. >> I GUESS THIS COMES. >> FROM THE ETHICS CODE. AND

IT'S LIKE A NATURAL HUMAN PERSON OR SOMETHING. >> OKAY, OKAY. SO THEN I DON'T KNOW HOW. OPTION TWO BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING TO BE TALKING TO A PERSON, WHETHER THEY'RE A DEVELOPER, AN INDIVIDUAL GROUPS. I'M NOT SURE WHAT THAT EVEN MEANS UNLESS YOU'RE SAYING THERE'S FIVE PEOPLE IN FRONT OF YOU THAT YOU'RE TALKING TO, OR ENTITIES. SO PERSON IN THE

ETHICS CODE ISN'T LIMITED TO ONE PERSON. >> NO IT IS.

>> IT'S A NATURAL. INDIVIDUAL HUMAN BEING OR SOMETHING. >> LIKE THAT. ALL RIGHT.

>> YES. >> I'M JUST GOING TO TALK ABOUT MY LINE OF THINKING BECAUSE I JUST SAID OPTION ONE SO THAT I KIND OF UNDERSTAND MAYBE WHAT I'M HEARING. I THINK FOR ME, BECAUSE WE DEFINED WHAT SHOULD BE DISCLOSED AND INCLUDED THE NAME AND THE COMPANY, THE INDIVIDUAL, THE HUMAN PERSON IS REPRESENTING WITH THE DATE AND THE PROJECT AND OR PENDING MATTER. I THINK THAT THEN LED ME TO UNDERSTAND, OKAY, COUNCILMEMBER RUMOHR MAKES A GOOD POINT. LET'S CATCH THE BROADER PENDING MATTER TO THEN REALLY DRILL DOWN TO WHAT A DEVELOPER IS FOR ME IS MY LINE OF THINKING MAKING THAT MORE SUCCINCT? THAT'S HOW I GOT TO OPTION ONE FOR WHAT IS A DEVELOPER, WHETHER THAT HELPS ANYBODY ELSE MAKE UP THEIR MIND OR NOT. BUT THAT'S WHAT KIND OF HELPED ME, AS I REFERRED BACK TO THE THINGS WE'VE ALREADY

KIND OF PUT INTO PLACE OR STATED THAT WE WANT IN PLACE. >> YES, COUNCILMEMBER.

>> I THINK MY RATIONALE BETWEEN 1 AND 2 IS THAT I FELT TWO WAS TOO BROAD, AND THAT ONE DID REALLY REFINE WHO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A LITTLE BIT BETTER. SO THAT WAS MY RATIONALE FOR ONE

OVER TWO. >> I GUESS IT MIGHT BE HELPFUL. I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING ABOUT YOU'RE ONLY GOING TO BE TALKING TO A REAL PERSON, NOT A CORPORATION, RIGHT? MAYBE IT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO KIND OF FOCUS ON, ARE THESE THE THINGS THAT YOU WANT? IF YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE DOING THESE THINGS, I'M SORRY, THE BOX REQUIRE, YOU KNOW, A DEVELOPMENT APPLICATION OR, AND MAYBE THEY'RE, THEY'RE NOT, THEY DON'T HAVE ONE CURRENTLY, BUT THEY ARE PLANNING TO DO ONE OR THEY'RE TALKING TO YOU ABOUT MAYBE DOING ONE. IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO CAPTURE? DOES THAT CAPTURE WHAT YOU MEAN BY DEVELOPER? AND THEN MAYBE WE CAN TALK THROUGH LIKE, OKAY, YEAH, WE CAN GET RID OF GROUPS OR ENTITIES AND MAKE IT CLEAR THAT YOU, YOU'RE TALKING TO A PERSON, YOU, YOU DISCLOSE WHO

THE PERSON IS AND. >> WHO THEY REPRESENT. >> RIGHT? BUT, BUT WE DON'T NEED TO DISCLOSE IT UNLESS THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT THESE THINGS, RIGHT? LIKE THE TRAFFIC TICKET TO, TO COUNCILOR HOLLAND SUGGESTION, THAT'S NOT YOUR INTENTION IS TO CAPTURE THOSE

THINGS, IS MY UNDERSTANDING, RIGHT? >> YES. WELL, PRIME EXAMPLE IS WE JUST HAD A MEETING PRIOR TO THIS WHERE THERE WAS SOMEONE WHO WAS REPRESENTING A DEVELOPMENT. AND SO WHEN WE IF WE WERE TO MEET WITH THEM, WE'RE GOING TO MEET WITH THIS INDIVIDUAL. SO WHEN WE GO TO MAKE OUR DISCLOSURE, THIS, I MEAN, THIS WOULD BE LIKE, I MET WITH MR. X, WHO REPRESENTS THIS COMPANY FOR THIS ALLEGED PROJECT ON THIS DATE. SO I DON'T THINK WE'RE GOING TO SAY I MET WITH THIS ENTITY. RIGHT. BUT WE CERTAINLY WOULD PUT I WOULD PROBABLY SAY ANY PERSON, WHAT ARE WE WHAT ARE WE SAYING, WHAT WE SHOULD DISCLOSE? OKAY,

[00:50:05]

SO WE GOT WHAT WE'RE DISCLOSING. I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU. IT'S THOSE THREE THINGS THAT WE WANT TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND. IF YOU'RE MEETING FOR THOSE THREE TYPES OF ITEMS, BUT THAT'S STILL PRETTY, THAT'S STILL PRETTY NARROW. I MEAN, HOW DO WE KNOW IF IT'S GOING TO REQUIRE, I GUESS IF YOU'RE COMING TO TALK TO US, THEN WE KNOW IT'S GOING TO REQUIRE SOME COUNCIL ACTION, RIGHT? I MEAN, WHY WOULD THEY BE TALKING TO US UNLESS THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, WANTING TO BE FRIENDS?

I DON'T KNOW. >> BUT I THINK TO YOUR POINT, YOU DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO DISCLOSE PERSONAL CONVERSATIONS, RIGHT? LIKE YOU MAYBE YOU HAVE A FRIEND WHO'S A DEVELOPER, IF THEY'RE NOT TALKING TO YOU ABOUT ONE OF THESE ITEMS, YOU SHOULDN'T NEED TO DISCLOSE THAT.

THAT WHAT I'M HEARING. >> YEAH. I THINK I'M UNDERSTANDING THE DIRECTION THAT THESE ARE THE THINGS YOU WANT THINGS TO BE DISCLOSED. IF THERE WILL BE A DEVELOPMENT OR THERE WILL BE AN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT INCENTIVE. AND SO WE'LL CREATE AN ORDINANCE. MACK.

AND I GOT IT. >> OKAY. ALL RIGHT. >> BUT OKAY, WHOEVER'S GOING TO BE WORKING ON IT, DO YOU THINK YOU HAVE SUFFICIENT DIRECTION AT LEAST TO BEGIN TO FORMULATE

SOMETHING? >> I BELIEVE. >> SO, OKAY. ALL RIGHT. OKAY.

THEN WHAT IS A PRIVATE MEETING? >> OPTION ONE? BECAUSE I THINK THAT WOULD INCLUDE, YOU KNOW, TEXT MESSAGING, EMAILS. AND IT CORRESPONDING WOULD SEEM TO ALSO INDICATE NOT JUST SOMEONE REACHING OUT TO YOU, BUT YOU REACHING OUT TO THEM. SO OPTION ONE.

>> OKAY. >> TWO. OKAY. >> OPTION ONE.

>> OKAY. >> THIS IS WHERE MY BRAIN GOT A LITTLE COMPLICATED WHEN I WAS REVIEWING THIS BECAUSE AS PART OF THIS, ALSO TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT, WHAT IS A PUBLIC MEETING? BECAUSE SOMETIMES A DEVELOPER WILL ARRANGE LIKE A NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, WHERE THERE'S BEEN A CASE WHERE I WENT TO ONE THAT WAS IN, I THINK THEY INVITED PEOPLE WITHIN A CERTAIN DISTANCE OF THE PROPOSAL, AND THERE WERE MAYBE 2 OR 3 RESIDENTS THERE. IS THAT PUBLIC OR PRIVATE? WOULD I DISCLOSE THAT OR WOULD I NOT DISCLOSE THAT? LIKE, AT WHAT POINT DOES IT BECOME A PUBLIC MEETING VERSUS A PRIVATE MEETING? SO THAT'S KIND OF SOMETHING I'VE BEEN TRYING TO FIGURE OUT AS I WAS LOOKING AT PRIVATE VERSUS PUBLIC, AND WHAT I ALSO WOULD WANT TO AVOID IS THERE HAVE BEEN TIMES WHERE SOMEBODY REACHED OUT TO MEET WITH ME AND I SAID, I'M SORRY. I, YOU KNOW, I'M HAPPY TO CHAT IN A PUBLIC SETTING, BUT NOT PRIVATELY. SO, YOU KNOW, THAT'S ME SAYING, NO, I'M NOT GOING TO HAVE A CONVERSATION. WOULD I HAVE TO DISCLOSE THAT? SO I DON'T NECESSARILY WANT TO CAPTURE WHERE SOMEBODY SAID NO OR DOESN'T RESPOND AT ALL. BUT I DON'T KNOW. MY INITIAL THOUGHT WAS TO SAY THIS WOULD BE A VERBAL CONVERSATION, A PRIVATE VERBAL CONVERSATION WITH A DEVELOPER. SO THAT COULD BE PHONE, THAT COULD BE VIDEO CHAT, THAT COULD BE IN PERSON.

BUT I DON'T KNOW IF WE'RE MISSING SOMETHING. IF WE SAID THIS IS ONLY VERBAL CONVERSATIONS. SO I'M SORRY THAT THAT KIND OF COMPLICATES SOME STUFF, BUT THESE ARE KIND

OF THINGS WHERE I, MY BRAIN KIND OF GOT A LITTLE. >> I DO THINK IF YOU SPECIFIED VERBAL, YOU PROBABLY WOULDN'T CAPTURE TEXT MESSAGES AND EMAILS, BUT I HAVEN'T LOOKED AT CASE LAW AROUND THAT. BUT I THINK PLAIN MEANING WISE, YOU MIGHT LIMIT IT IN THAT WAY.

>> YEAH. >> IF YOU WANT TO DO THAT. >> OKAY.

>> SO. WHEN YOU SAY WHEN I SEE CONVERSATIONS, I DON'T KNOW IF I NECESSARILY RESTRICT THAT TO LIKE, I'M TALKING TO YOU. I MEAN, I CAN HAVE A QUOTE UNQUOTE CONVERSATION. AND IF WE NEED TO DEFINE IT AS CONVERSATIONS, EITHER VERBAL TEXT, PHONE, I MEAN, OKAY, FINE.

BUT IF I'M HAVING A, IF I'M TEXTING SOMEBODY OR EMAILING SOMEBODY, I PERCEIVE I'M HAVING DIALOG WITH THEM A CONVERSATION. MOST PEOPLE THINK CONVERSATIONS IN PERSON, VERBAL, LIKE WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE. SO I UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT YOU SAID SOMETHING ABOUT YOU AND YOU JUST USED IT AS AN EXAMPLE. SO I'M JUST GOING TO REPEAT IT. WHEN YOU SAID YOU MIGHT RESPOND TO SOMEBODY, NO, I WON'T HAVE A PRIVATE MEETING WITH YOU, BUT I'LL HAVE A PUBLIC MEETING. SO WHEN YOU SAY PUBLIC, DO YOU MEAN IN THE MIDST OF MORE THAN JUST YOU AND THAT PERSON, OR IS

IT JUST IS THE PUBLIC REFERRING TO THE SETTING? >> I MEAN, LIKE IF IF THEY ARRANGED A NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING AND THEY INVITED THE NEIGHBORS TO THE VIRTUAL EXAMPLE I GAVE, I'VE BEEN TO ONE WHERE IT WAS AGAIN, A NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING. A BUNCH OF PEOPLE SHOWED UP TO THAT ONE THAT WAS IN PERSON. SO, YOU KNOW, LEARNING ABOUT YOUR PROJECT WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF LIKE A NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING IS WHAT I MEAN. BUT AS A RULE FOLLOWER, I'M TRYING TO THINK

OF THE LOOPHOLES HERE >> TWO. SO I WAS KIND OF LIKE, OKAY, AT WHAT POINT DOES SOMETHING GO FROM PRIVATE TO PUBLIC? I WONDER IF WE NEED TO DEFINE ALSO WHAT PUBLIC MEANS.

DOES IT MEAN YOU INVITED ONE NEIGHBOR, THREE NEIGHBORS? DOES IT MEAN THAT YOU KNOW WHAT, WHAT IS A PUBLIC MEETING AS WELL? UNLESS WE WANT TO DISCLOSE ANY PUBLIC MEETING WE

[00:55:05]

ATTENDED AS WELL, IF THEY DID LIKE A AN INPUT SESSION WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? KIND OF WHERE I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHERE THE LINE IS

BETWEEN PUBLIC AND PRIVATE MEETING? >> SURE. AND I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS IF I'M IF SOMEBODY INVITES ME, IF DEVELOPER XYZ INVITES ME TO A HOME WHERE HE'S GOT SOME NEIGHBORS THERE AND THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS DEVELOPMENT, AND I'M JUST THERE, YOU KNOW, EITHER LISTENING OR MAYBE NOT EVEN PARTICIPATING, IS THAT A PUBLIC OR PRIVATE? I MEAN, TO ME, I DON'T REALLY LOOK AT IT. IF I'M HAVING A CONVERSATION WITH A DEVELOPER, WHETHER I GOT JUST MYSELF THERE OR SOMEBODY ELSE, I, I'D RATHER ON THE SIDE OF JUST SAYING, HEY, YOU KNOW WHAT? YEAH. MET WITH HIM AND A GROUP OF OTHER PEOPLE. SO I DON'T KNOW IF I NEED TO HAVE THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN PRIVATE BEING TRULY PRIVATE, LIKE NOBODY ELSE IS INVITED. YOU MIGHT BE SEQUESTERED IN SOME CORNER OF A RESTAURANT OR IN SOME PRIVATE FACILITY. IT'S MORE TO ME, THE REAL MEAT OF THIS IS THE CONTACT IS, YOU

KNOW, YOU'RE HAVING CONTACT. YES, COUNCILMEMBER. >> TO THAT, I WOULD I WOULD SAY THAT A PRIVATE MEETING IS WHERE. NOBODY ELSE IS IN IS INCLUDED IN THAT. IT'S IT'S YOU AND ME OR IT'S, IT'S YOU AND CASSEY AND ME OR SOMETHING. AND, AND IF A, IF ANOTHER PERSON COMES IN, THAT'S KIND OF INTERRUPTING THAT, THAT CLOSED MEETING, IF IT'S A NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING, I WOULDN'T, I WOULDN'T, I WOULD ABSOLUTELY CALL THAT A IF ANYBODY COULD COME OR GO, I

WOULD CALL THAT A PUBLIC MEETING. OKAY. >> AND SO IS THE QUESTION HERE, THE QUESTION OF DO WE DO WE THIS IS WHAT IS A PRIVATE MEETING? SO WE'RE ARE WE WANTING TO JUST DISCLOSE PRIVATE MEETINGS? OR ARE WE SAYING BECAUSE WE'RE TRYING TO TALK THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PRIVATE AND PUBLIC. WHEREAS PUBLIC. DO WE NEED TO DISCLOSE IF WE'RE IN A PUBLIC MEETING, LIKE A NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING OR SOMETHING LIKE YOU DESCRIBED?

IS THAT SOMETHING WE NEED? >> WE ALL GO TO PUBLIC MEETINGS CONSTANTLY.

>> YEAH, YEAH. OKAY. >> YEAH. I THINK THE QUESTION. >> HERE IS REALLY TRYING TO GET AT WHAT IS THE NATURE HERE WHERE IT'S NATURE OF THE CONTACT THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO GET AT? YEAH, YEAH. AND IS IT JUST THE LIKE, THERE'S JUST THE GROUP OF YOU, COUNCILMEMBER.

>> YEAH. I THINK WHAT I'M HEARING IS LIKE, IT'S ALMOST LIKE A POINT OF PRIVILEGE, RIGHT? SO IF WE'RE CONVERSING OR CORRESPONDING WITH A DEVELOPER IN A WAY THAT IS NOT ACCESSIBLE TO THE PUBLIC, I.E. A POSTING FOR A NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION MEETING, I, YOU KNOW, HOSTING A GATHERING AT THE SITE ITSELF, RIGHT? ANYTHING THAT THE PUBLIC HAS ACCESS AND COULD SEE WOULD THEN BE PUBLIC AND PRIVATE MEANS LIKE YOUR CORRESPONDING OR CONVERSING WITH THAT DEVELOPER IN A WAY THAT IS NOT ACCESSIBLE TO THE REST OF THE PUBLIC, BECAUSE MOST LIKELY OF THE POSITION YOU HOLD AS A CITY COUNCIL PERSON.

>> SO SHALL WE TAKE ANOTHER POLL OF IS IT OPTION ONE, TWO, OR'T DEFINE. THAT'S

THE EASIEST ONE. >> YEAH IT IS. THAT'S WHY IT'S ALL THERE. BUT WE COULD WE COULD TO TO COUNCIL MEMBER FERRY'S POINT MAYBE DEFINE IT AS CONVERSATIONS NOT ACCESSIBLE

TO THE PUBLIC OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES. >> YEAH. OR THE CONVERSING OR CORRESPONDING WITH THE DEVELOPER OUTSIDE OF THE CONTEXT OF THAT. YEAH.

>> I MEAN. YOU OKAY WITH THAT? OKAY. OKAY. >> THINKING ABOUT LOOPHOLES. SO I FEEL LIKE IF IT'S ARRANGED BY THE DEVELOPER OR THE PERSON IN QUESTION, THEN THEY INVITED, I MEAN, I FEEL LIKE IF NO NEIGHBORS SHOW UP, THEN THE COUNCIL MEMBER THAT'S NOW BECOME A PRIVATE MEETING. AND YOU WOULD DISCLOSE THAT ONE BECAUSE THE NEIGHBORS DIDN'T SHOW UP. MY, MY ONLY QUESTION WHEN I THINK ABOUT HOW A LOOPHOLE COULD OCCUR IS, LET'S SAY THAT SOMEBODY SAYS, OH, I'VE GOT THIS CONSTITUENT WHO'S VERY FRIENDLY TO THIS PROJECT, IF I INVITE THEM NOW, IS THAT PUBLIC? COULD I CALL THAT PUBLIC THEN, BECAUSE I INVITED A FRIENDLY CONSTITUENT WHO'S NOT INVOLVED IN THIS DEVELOPMENT, BUT MAYBE THEY'RE FRIENDS WITH THEM OR SOMETHING. YES. I'M SORRY, I'M NOT THE ONE CALLING PEOPLE.

>> YES. >> YEAH, I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, AND I UNDERSTAND THE LOGIC BEHIND IT. AND I THINK THE INTENTION OF THE DEFINITION OF PRIVATE MEETING IS TO STATE YET AGAIN, LIKE VERY FIRMLY, THIS WOULD NEED TO BE SOMETHING THAT IS A PUBLIC TOPIC CONVERSATION WHERE A COMMUNITY WAS INVITED TO HAVE A CONVERSATION. SO IF I BROUGHT ONE FRIEND WITH ME, I BROUGHT A FRIEND WITH ME TO A PUBLIC MEETING. AND IF WE'RE THE ONLY TWO THAT SHOWED UP TO YOUR POINT AND THIS THOUGHT OF A LOOPHOLE, THEN, DOES THAT CHANGE THE THE NATURE OF THE OPPORTUNITY? NO. BUT IN THAT MOMENT, MAYBE I NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT I'M ETHICALLY CONSCIOUS, RIGHT? LIKE WE ALL HAVE PROFESSIONAL JOBS THAT HAVE ETHICS, RIGHT? IN THAT MOMENT. I'M GOING TO PROBABLY TELL THAT DEVELOPER, HEY, NO ONE HAS SHOWED TO THIS MEETING BESIDES ME AND MY FRIEND. I CAN'T ACTUALLY HAVE THIS CONVERSATION WITH YOU BECAUSE NO ONE'S HERE TO PUBLICLY BE A PART OF THE PUBLIC MEETING.

THIS HAS BECOME PRIVATE. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? >> IT DOES.

>> NOW, I UNDERSTAND THAT THAT'S ME HAVING TO USE MY OWN CONSCIENCE AND THINK ABOUT MY

[01:00:04]

MY ETHICS. TO YOUR POINT, I ALREADY SAW THE CHESS PIECE MOVE THAT YOU WERE MAKING. SO THEN AGAIN, IN THIS LANGUAGE, THAT COULD BE. EDIFIED, CODIFIED.

>> EXCUSE ME. I DO WANT TO JUST MAKE MAKE IT CLEAR, LIKE BRING US BACK TO THIS IS WE'RE JUST TALKING ABOUT YOU ARE REQUIRED TO MAKE A DISCLOSURE. SO AT THIS POINT, WE'RE NOT EVEN TALKING ABOUT, WELL, THAT COULD BE A VIOLATION OF SOMETHING WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT AND LIKE YOU'RE NOT PROHIBITED FROM HAVING PRIVATE MEETINGS WITH DISCLOSURES PER THIS. SO I JUST WANT TO MAKE THAT CLEAR THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LOOPHOLES. WE HAVE TO KEEP THAT CONTEXT IN

MIND. >> YEAH, YEAH. >> YOU CAN ALWAYS MAKE A

DISCLOSURE IF YOU'RE UNCERTAIN. >> YEAH. AND I MEAN I'LL GO WITH OPTION ONE. WE GOT I MEAN, WE COULD, WE COULD KIND OF PEEL THIS ONION BACK A LOT. AND I THINK A LOT, AND LET'S FACE IT, A LOT OF THIS IS GOING TO BE, I'M NOT GOING TO SAY IT'S THE HONOR SYSTEM BECAUSE IT MAY BE CODIFIED, BUT YET WE ALSO JUST HAVE TO USE OUR OUR JUDGMENT. I MEAN, WE I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW IF WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO WRITE A POLICY WHERE EVERYTHING HAS IS SPELLED OUT TO WHERE YOU

SEE WHAT I'M SAYING. SO FOR. >> CERTAIN, YEAH, I THINK THAT I HAVE GUIDANCE ON WHAT I THINK.

FROM WHAT I CAN TELL, WE'RE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CONVERSATIONS THAT ARE NOT GENERALLY ACCESSIBLE TO THE PUBLIC WITH THE DEVELOPER THAT COULD AND THAT COULD BE VERBAL OR IN WRITTEN FORM, TEXT, EMAIL IS, WAS THE DIRECTION I THINK I GOT. I THINK I'M A LITTLE UNCLEAR ON JUST THE TEXT TEXT MESSAGE WRITTEN PIECE OF IT. OR WOULD YOU LIKE TO INCLUDE KIND

OF THE WRITTEN, I KNOW THAT YOU SAID YES. >> EMAIL AND TEXT. I MEAN, UNLESS IT'S YOU JUST, I MEAN, AGAIN, PEOPLE HAVE TO IF YOU'RE JUST SAYING NO, THEN IF SOMEBODY SAYS, HEY, YOU DIDN'T DISCLOSE. WELL, YEAH, I DIDN'T GO. SO BUT THAT'S RIGHT.

>> I WOULD THINK IF YOU SAID, I DON'T WANT TO HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH YOU. YOU

HAVEN'T HAD A CONVERSATION. >> RIGHT? RIGHT. OKAY. YES. COUNCILMEMBER HOLLAND.

>> THEN THERE WOULD BE NO MEETING. I MEAN, IF YOU DIDN'T GO, THEN THERE'S NO MEETING. I WAS NEVER I NEVER GOT DIRECTION AS TO DO I NEED TO INFORM THE PERSON WHO CALLED THE MEETING

THAT I AM GOING TO, THAT I AM REQUIRED TO, TO, TO SUBMIT THIS. >> I THINK WE WE COULD CERTAINLY INCLUDE THAT IN THE ORDINANCE THAT AS A COUNCIL MEMBER, YOU SHOULD INFORM THE DEVELOPER THAT YOU'RE REQUIRED TO DISCLOSE IT. I THINK THAT WOULD BE HARD TO UNLESS YOU

WANTED TO PUT THAT ON THE FORM, LIKE CHECK YOU TOLD THEM. >> WELL, TO MAYOR'S EXAMPLE, THIS, THIS GUY MAY NOT WANT EVERYBODY IN HIS MOTHER KNOWING THAT I'M GOING TO WANT TO DO THIS DEVELOPMENT. ERGO, HE MIGHT NOT WANT TO CONFIDE IN ME ABOUT ABOUT SOMETHING LIKE THIS.

>> I THINK IT WOULD BE PRUDENT TO LET PEOPLE KNOW IF YOU'RE GOING TO, I MEAN, AS A COUNCIL MEMBER FOR REQUIRED TO DISCLOSE A MEETING. I, I, I PERSONALLY WOULD PROBABLY I WOULD SHARE WITH THEM JUST BECAUSE IT'D BE LIKE, IF YOU'RE GOING TO RECORD SOME, SOME PEOPLE, IF YOU DON'T TELL THEM THAT THEY'RE COMING INTO THE MEETING, NOT WITH FULL KNOWLEDGE.

>> ABSOLUTELY. I WOULD, I WOULD WANT TO KNOW THAT WERE I IN THAT POSITION. I AGREE, AND I WONDER IF YOU COULD REDUCE THIS TO A, A CHECKLIST TO WHERE IT COULD, YOU KNOW, YOU COULD JUST CHECK OFF BOXES RATHER THAN HAVE TO MAKE A, MAKE A DIALOG TO, TO THE.

>> DISCLOSURE OR WHAT DO YOU. >> MEAN THE, THE, THE DISCLOSURE? YEAH. OKAY. YEAH.

WHO, WHO I MET WITH WHEN I MET WITH WHAT WAS DISCUSSED. CHECK, CHECK CHECK STUFF LIKE THIS.

>> ONCE WE GET CLEAR DIRECTION, WE'LL CERTAINLY CREATE A FORM FOR YOU.

>> OKAY, SO WE GOT I'M SORRY, COUNCILMEMBER. >> OKAY, SO THE DIRECTION YOU HAVE SO FAR ON THIS ONE LINE WAS ONE, IT WAS LIKE TWO THINGS, RIGHT? COULD YOU SAY THOSE ONE.

>> MORE TIME? YES. SO IT'S, IT'S CONVERSATIONS THAT ARE NOT ACCESSIBLE TO THE PUBLIC. THAT WHICH INCLUDES VERBAL IN-PERSON TEXT MESSAGES, WRITTEN CORRESPONDENCE OF, OF ANY KIND,

BASICALLY. >> OKAY, IF IF EVERYBODY IS IN AGREE OR OKAY WITH IT, IF THE WORDING COULD INCLUDE SOMETHING THAT WOULD KICK OUT THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE YOU HEAR

FROM SOMEBODY INVITING TO MEET WITH YOU AND YOU SAY, NO. >> WE CAN.

>> MAKE, WE DON'T HAVE TO KEEP TRACK OF THOSE BECAUSE THAT CAN BE POTENTIALLY A LOT OF.

>> YEAH, I THINK I'VE GOTTEN DIRECTION THAT Y'ALL DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO DISCLOSE THOSE THINGS. AND I THINK WE CAN MAKE IT CLEAR IN WHATEVER WE WRITE. YEAH.

>> THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. >> OKAY. AND WHERE SHOULD THE REQUIREMENT BE CODIFIED,

COUNCILMEMBER? I MEAN, MAYOR PRO TEM IS I. >> JUST NEED A POINT OF CLARIFICATION. IF IT'S IN THE ETHICS ORDINANCE AND THEN SOMEONE CHOOSES NOT TO DISCLOSE

SOMETHING, COULD A COMPLAINT BE FILED AGAINST THEM FOR NOT. >> NOT NECESSARILY SO BECAUSE IT WOULD JUST BE IN THAT MANDATE. I CAN'T REMEMBER. I'D HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK, WE COULD MAKE IT CLEAR THAT WE COULD DO IT EITHER WAY. BASICALLY, YOU IT'S ALL UP IN THE AIR. IF SOMEBODY IF SOMEBODY WANT JUST IT SORRY, LET ME START OVER IT JUST BEING IN THE ETHICS ORDINANCE DOES NOT MAKE IT AUTOMATICALLY A A VIOLENT A VIOLENT OFFENSE. SO

[01:05:06]

IT COULD BE IN THERE AND NOT IF YOU DIDN'T DISCLOSE NOT CONSTITUTE A VIOLATION. DOES

THAT MAKE SENSE? I'M SORRY. YEAH. SORRY. >> SAY THAT ONE MORE TIME.

>> JUST BEING IN THE ETHICS ORDINANCE DOES NOT MEAN THAT IF YOU DIDN'T MAKE A DISCLOSURE, IT WOULD BE A VIOLATION, THAT IT WOULD NECESSARILY BE A VIOLATION. WE COULD WE COULD WRITE THE LANGUAGE TO WHERE IT'S NOT A VIOLATION IF YOU DON'T DISCLOSE OR I THINK THERE ARE SOME SECTIONS IN THERE RIGHT NOW THAT ARE ABOUT DISCLOSURES THAT, HEY, IF YOU IF YOU GET NOTIFIED THAT YOU DIDN'T MAKE YOUR DISCLOSURE AND YOU DON'T TIMELY RECTIFY THE SITUATION, THEN IT COULD BE A VIOLATION. SO THERE'S KIND OF SEVERAL OPTIONS THERE. BUT I THINK I'M TRYING TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION. JUST IT BEING IN THE ORDINANCE DOES NOT MEAN IT

WOULD HAVE TO BE A. >> VIOLATION, DOESN'T MEAN IT'S. AUTOMATICALLY ACTIONABLE.

>> I MEAN, PERSONALLY, I THINK IT SHOULD BE ACTIONABLE. OTHERWISE THERE'S NO POINT IN DOING THIS. IS, WAS, IS KIND OF HOW I FEEL BECAUSE JUST BECAUSE IT'S IN THE ORDINANCE, AND THEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO FOLLOW THE ORDINANCE AND NOTHING HAPPENS BECAUSE OF THE ORDINANCE.

WHAT'S THE POINT OF HAVING AN ORDINANCE? AND SO I THAT WAS MY INTENTION OF BRINGING THIS UP.

AND IF WE DON'T FIND CONSENSUS, I'M HAPPY TO GO INTO FURTHER DETAIL OF WHY THIS IS A PROBLEM.

BUT BUT THAT THAT'S WHERE I STAND. >> YEAH.

>> YES. GO AHEAD. YES. >> I JUST HAD A QUICK QUESTION TO THIS POINT. I HEAR YOU THAT IT'S NOT NECESSARILY ACTIONABLE. HOWEVER, IT WOULD STILL BE SOMETHING THAT COULD BE FILED.

GO THROUGH THE THREE PERSON, GO TO THE FULL COMMITTEE. IS THAT WHAT I'M NOT UNDERSTANDING?

>> I THINK WHAT I'M SAYING IS IT'S UP TO Y'ALL IF YOU WANT IT TO. IF YOU WANT IT TO BE ACTIONABLE, WE CAN MAKE IT THAT WAY. IF YOU DON'T WANT IT TO BE ACTIONABLE, WE CAN MAKE IT THAT

WAY. IT CAN BE IN THE ETHICS ORDINANCE EITHER WAY. >> OKAY. I WOULD THEN WANT IT TO BE ACTIONABLE, AND IT CAN RESIDE IN THE ETHICS ORDINANCE AND MANDATE THOSE SECTIONS OR

MANDATES THE SECTION. >> YES. COUNCILMEMBER HOLLAND. >> THANK YOU. WHAT WHAT IS CITY

COUNCIL DEVELOPER? >> YEAH, THIS IS THE IF YOU REMEMBER FROM OUR PREVIOUS SLIDE, IT'S THIS 2018 RESOLUTION. SO WE COULD UPDATE THAT RESOLUTION. BASICALLY THAT CURRENTLY EXISTS. I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT WOULD BE MY RECOMMENDATION, BUT IT'S AN OPTION. I THINK IT WOULD PROBABLY BE IF YOU WANTED TO NOT GO THE ETHICS ORDINANCE ROUTE. HAVING A SEPARATE ORDINANCE OR A SEPARATE RESOLUTION WOULD PROBABLY BE

IDEAL, BUT I DON'T KNOW. I'D DEFER TO MACK ON THAT. >> I'M STILL NOT CLEAR.

>> YEAH. >> ESSENTIALLY THERE'S THERE'S THERE'S KIND OF TWO EXISTING DOCUMENTS THAT WE COULD JUST ADD IT TO. THERE'S THE ETHICS ORDINANCE, OR THERE'S THIS OTHER RESOLUTION. AND THOSE ARE KIND OF TWO OPTIONS. THIS OTHER RESOLUTION DOES THESE TWO KIND OF NARROW THINGS, ONE OF WHICH IS PROVIDING THIS KIND OF VOLUNTARY DISCLOSURE PROCESS.

THAT'S WHAT THIS IS TALKING ABOUT THAT CURRENTLY EXISTS WITH THE CITY MANAGER. OR WE

COULD JUST PUT IT IN ITS OWN ORDINANCE OR RESOLUTION. >> OKAY.

>> OKAY. AND OTHER RESOLUTION, RIGHT? >> THAT'S JUST WE, WE JUST HAVE A SEPARATE ORDINANCE OR RESOLUTION THAT IS JUST ABOUT THIS.

>> I THINK I'D LIKE THAT. OPTION THREE OKAY. >> COUNCIL MEMBER PERRY.

>> IF WE GO IN THE DIRECTION OF ETHICS ORDINANCE MANDATING THE SECTION AND MAKING IT ACTIONABLE, WOULD THAT NOT SUPERSEDE THIS OTHER POLICY? WOULD THAT REPLACE IT?

>> THAT WOULD. >> DO AWAY. >> WITH IT. WE'D NEED TO LOOK AT IT. YEAH. TO SEE WHAT CONFLICTED AND WHAT DIDN'T. OKAY.

>> YEAH. >> I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTOOD THAT. THANKS.

>> I WAS LEANING OPTION TWO UNTIL WHEN I, WHEN I LOOKED AT IT, IT MAY IT MATCHED THE MOST WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT. I FELT I WASN'T EXCITED ABOUT THE IDEA OF HAVING A SEPARATE ORDINANCE BECAUSE IT FELT LIKE IT SHOULD BE ABLE TO FIT IN ONE OF THE TWO EXISTING. IF WE FEEL LIKE TWO IS ACTUALLY NOT A GOOD SPOT FOR IT, THAT I'M HAPPY TO GO WITH OPTION ONE ON THIS.

[01:10:05]

>> YEAH, I THINK I, I THINK THE WE COULD INTO BASICALLY IT HAS THIS KIND OF VOLUNTARY DISCLOSURE, ESSENTIALLY JUST REPLACE THIS WITH THE, THE REQUIREMENT, THE REQUIRED DISCLOSURE. BUT THIS DOESN'T CURRENTLY HAVE ANY MECHANISM TO, TO COUNCIL COUNCILOR PERRY AND MAYOR PRO TEM STEVENS POINT TO THEN DO MAKE AN ETHICS COMPLAINT IF A DISCLOSURE IS NOT MADE. SO IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULD LIKE, IT PROBABLY SHOULD SIT IN THE

ETHICS ORDINANCE. >> BECAUSE THEN IT'S JUST STILL OPTIONAL. I FEEL LIKE WE ALL

JUST SAID THAT. OKAY. ETHICS ORDINANCE. THANK YOU. >> I MEAN, I WOULDN'T SAY IT'S

OPTIONAL, IT'S JUST NOT IN THE ETHICS ORDINANCE. >> ISN'T THERE? YOU HAD MENTIONED THERE'S SOME THINGS IN THE ETHICS ORDINANCE THAT LIKE IF I HAVE A IF SOME THINGS ARE JUST THERE, YOU JUST HAVE TO DISCLOSE, YOU DON'T RECUSE YOURSELF.

>> CORRECT. >> SO ARE THOSE THINGS LIKE, LET'S SAY I HAVE A SOMETHING'S COMING BEFORE US. I DON'T HAVE A PENNY EXCEPT I KNOW THE PERSON AND WE HAVE SOME OTHER BUSINESS SOMEWHERE ELSE. IF I DON'T DISCLOSE THAT, IS THAT SO SOMEONE COULD FILE AN ETHICS

COMPLAINT ON THAT. >> I'D HAVE TO GO BACK AND CHECK THE ACTUAL LANGUAGE THAT IS IN THE MANDATE SECTION. SO THAT'S THE SECTION WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. IT HAS SOME OTHER DISCLOSURE REQUIREMENTS LIKE THE FINANCIAL DISCLOSURES YOU HAVE TO MAKE TO THE STATE.

I BELIEVE THAT IT IS. YOU CAN POTENTIALLY FILE AN ETHICS ORDINANCE IF THE COUNCIL MEMBER IS INFORMED YOU DIDN'T MAKE YOUR DISCLOSURE, AND THEN THEY JUST STILL DON'T DO IT. SO I BELIEVE THAT'S KIND OF THE PROCESS UNDER THE DISCLOSURES TO GET TO A VIOLATION.

>> GIVEN THAT THIS IS NUMBER ONE, I THINK THIS PROBABLY, I'M ASSUMING, IS GOING TO BE VETTED

THROUGH THE ETHICS BOARD. I MEAN. >> IF YOU WOULD LIKE IT.

>> TO BE. >> OKAY, SO WE CAN WE CAN CHANGE THE ETHICS CODE WITHOUT.

>> YES. >> YOU CAN INVOLVING THEM. OKAY. I MEAN, I KNOW WE CAN, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GOING TO CHOOSE TO DO. I THINK HERE I WANT TO KIND OF I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, MAYOR PRO TEM, BECAUSE THIS IS A NEW KIND OF THING THAT, I MEAN, IT COULD BE SO EASY. I MEAN, UNLESS WE DEFINE EVERYTHING VERY SPECIFICALLY, I WOULDN'T WANT THIS TO NECESSARILY BE USED TO BE WEAPONIZED. AS TO COIN A PHRASE THAT SOME PEOPLE USED TO USE. AND IT WOULD BE NICE IF THERE WAS SOME KIND OF CURE PROVISION BEFORE AN ETHICS COMPLAINT GETS FILED. IN OTHER WORDS, OH, WE UNDERSTAND THIS. SOMEBODY MAY FILE AN ETHICS COMPLAINT. BUT IF YOU HAVE IN THE CODE, IF A COMPLAINT GETS FILED, WE'RE GOING TO GIVE THE PERSON ON THIS PARTICULAR PROVISION A CHANCE TO CURE IT. AND IF THEY CURE IT WITHIN SO MUCH TIME, NO HARM, NO FOUL, BECAUSE IT'S NOT REALLY IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FINANCIAL INTEREST. IT'S NOT LIKE A PERSONAL PENDING KIND OF SOMETHING. NOW PEOPLE CAN SAY, WELL, IF PEOPLE CONTRIBUTE PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, THOSE KINDS OF THINGS. BUT IT'S REALLY A DIFFERENT CONTEXT THAN, HEY, YOU HAVE A FINANCIAL INTEREST IN SOMEONE WHO'S COMING BEFORE THE COUNCIL AND SOME OTHER BUSINESS. THERE'S THAT NEXUS TIED TO IT. SO I DON'T MIND IT BEING THERE. IF THERE WAS SOME OPPORTUNITY FOR A CURE.

>> YEAH. >> THAT'S THE MANDATE SECTION, I BELIEVE HAS THAT.

>> THAT OKAY. >> CURE, PROVISION BASICALLY BEFORE ANYBODY IS REALLY

ALLOWED TO BEFORE IT COULD BE FOUND AS A VIOLATION. >> OKAY, OKAY. Y'ALL OKAY WITH THAT? COUNCILMEMBER? YOU OKAY? ALL RIGHT. AND IF IT'S ALREADY BUILT IN, THEN WE'VE JUST SPENT

FIVE MINUTES TALKING ABOUT THAT SOMETHING WE DIDN'T NEED TO. >> SO I THINK IT'S GOOD TO KNOW

THAT THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT. >> OKAY. ALL RIGHT. AND I GUESS THE NEXT THING IS, DO Y'ALL WANT THIS TO BE TO GO BEFORE THE BOARD OF ETHICS TO BE CONSIDERED MAYOR PRO TEM, THIS

WAS YOUR PITCH. >> YEAH. I DON'T YOU KNOW, I THINK I TALKED ABOUT IT IN THE AGENDA COMMITTEE AS WELL. WE HAD THE DECISION AT THAT POINT OF WHETHER OR NOT WE WANTED THIS TO GO TO THE ETHICS BOARD FIRST AND THEN TO US. WE DECIDED, BECAUSE WE WERE ULTIMATELY GOING TO BE THE ONES MAKING THE DECISION THAT WE SHOULD JUST HANDLE THE DECISION.

AND SO IT WOULD FEEL VERY BACKWARDS TO GO BACK TO THEM. I THINK WHAT WE ALL JUST AGREED WITH IS A REALLY GOOD FRAMEWORK AND PRETTY BOLD. SO I DON'T. THINK ANYBODY.

>> DESIRED TO HAVE IT GO BEFORE THE BOARD. OKAY. SEEING NO AFFIRMATIVE RESPONSES. SO OKAY,

OKAY. >> THAT'S ALL THE QUESTIONS I HAD. I BELIEVE I HEARD A FEW

LIKE, I THINK YOU MENTIONED SOMETHING. >> YEAH. YES, COUNCILMEMBER.

>> THAT WE CONSIDER APPLYING THIS TO. OTHER CITY COUNCIL CANDIDATES THAT HAVE DECLARED.

>> CANDIDATES AND P AND Z. YES. YEAH. SO IN THE SO THE ETHICS ORDINANCE ITSELF APPLIES TO

[01:15:12]

Y'ALL, THE PLANNING AND ZONING HISTORIC LANDMARK COMMISSION BOARD OF ETHICS. P AND Z. DID I

SAY THAT PUB THERE'S ONE OTHER ONE. SORRY, SORRY. >> SAY IT AGAIN.

>> ZBAZBA. YES. SO THERE'S SIX OTHER BODIES THAT IF YOU PUT THIS IN, WE COULD MAKE IT TO WHERE IT ONLY APPLIES TO YOU, OR IT COULD JUST APPLY TO EVERYBODY THAT THE ETHICS

ORDINANCE APPLIES TO. >> OKAY. >> ALL RIGHT. WAS THAT YOUR QUESTION, MAYOR PRO TEM IN ESSENCE. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THOUGHTS ON THAT? YES.

COUNCILMEMBER HOLLAND. >> APPLICABLE WHEN? >> I'M SORRY.

>> IS THIS WHEN WOULD THIS TAKE EFFECT? >> WHENEVER WE GET YOU THE UPDATED ORDINANCE WHICH BASED ON THIS, WE PROBABLY NEED A MONTH OR TWO TO DRAFT. SO MAYBE

WE COULD BRING IT BACK IN DECEMBER SOMETIME. >> SO YOU'RE OKAY WITH IT APPLYING TO BASICALLY JUST CITY OFFICIAL AS DEFINED IN THE IN THE CODE OF ETHICS. OKAY. ALL

RIGHT. ANYBODY ELSE. >> TO BE CLEAR, THAT WOULD NOT APPLY TO CANDIDATES.

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY I DON'T FEEL LIKE WE TIED THAT UP. LIKE WHAT WE'RE DOING WITH THAT IDEA WAS THAT I DON'T THINK WE TIED UP THE IDEA OF WHETHER WE WOULD WANT TO APPLY THIS TO CANDIDATES FOR CITY COUNCIL THAT HAVE OFFICIALLY FILED FOR A SEAT.

>> YEAH, I WOULDN'T ONLY BECAUSE IF WE START GOING DOWN THAT ROAD, THEN I MEAN, BECAUSE THEN WE'D HAVE TO SAY, WELL, OUR CANDIDATES, SUBJECT TO THE ETHICS ORDINANCE.

>> I BELIEVE THERE'S LIKE ONE SMALL PROVISION WHERE THEY ARE. I'D HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK.

>> DO YOU DO YOU KNOW, OFF THE TOP OF YOUR HEAD. >> I KNOW THAT CANDIDATE IS DEFINED IN THE ETHICS ORDINANCE. I BELIEVE I YEAH, I CAN'T, I CAN'T REMEMBER.

>> YEAH. >> YEAH. >> I'D HAVE TO BRING THAT

INFORMATION BACK. >> I'M SORRY. >> UNDER THE ORDINANCE THEY HAVE TO IF YOU'RE A CANDIDATE, YOU HAVE TO FILE YOUR FINANCIAL DISCLOSURES. IT MAKES THAT AN

ETHICS VIOLATION IF YOU DON'T. >> OKAY. ALL RIGHT. JUST AS A CANDIDATE, THAT'S THE ONLY THING THAT'S APPLICABLE TO THE CANDIDATE TO CANDIDATES IN THE ETHICS ORDINANCE.

>> I BELIEVE. >> SO, OKAY. ALL RIGHT. >> COUNCILMEMBER HOLLAND.

>> I THINK THAT'S VERY REASONABLE. I THINK I THINK THAT A CANDIDATE SHOULD SHOULD HAVE TO FOLLOW THE SAME THE SAME RULES. AND I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THIS UPCOMING ELECTION, BY THE WAY, BUT BUT IN IN FUTURE ELECTIONS, I THINK THAT'S I THINK THAT'S MOST REASONABLE THAT BECAUSE BECAUSE YOU'RE, YOU KNOW, IF I GET ELECTED, I'M GOING TO I'M GOING

TO DO MY DEAL FOR YOUR THOUSAND ACRE DEVELOPMENT THING. >> YEAH.

>> OKAY. SO I WOULD SUPPORT THAT. >> I WOULD AS WELL.

>> I WOULD AS WELL. >> ARE THEY SUBJECT TO THE SAME CURE PROVISION?

>> YES. >> THEY WOULD BE. >> AND THE CURE PROVISION, WHEN DOES IT WHEN IS IT ACTIVATED? IS IT IS IT ONLY IF SOMETHING'S FILED.

>> I BELIEVE IT'S IT'S ACTIVATED WHEN THEY'RE NOTIFIED THAT THEY NEED TO CURE IT WOULDN'T IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY REQUIRE THAT THERE BE AN ETHICS COMPLAINT.

>> OKAY. >> IT JUST REQUIRES THAT THE COUNCIL MEMBER BE NOTIFIED. HEY,

WE I KNOW YOU DID THIS. WHERE'S YOUR DISCLOSURE? >> OKAY.

>> ALL RIGHT. SO THERE'S THE TRIGGERING MECHANISM IS JUST SOME TYPE OF KNOWLEDGE, SOME

LEVEL OF. >> YEAH. WHAT IT SAYS IS FAILURE TO SUBMIT A REPORT SHALL NOT SERVE AS A BASIS FOR COMPLAINT UNLESS THE CITY OFFICIAL FAILS TO SUBMIT A REPORT WITHIN 30 DAYS OF BEING PROVIDED. WRITTEN NOTIFICATION OF THE OMISSION.

>> OKAY. >> ALL RIGHT. SO THEN SO I WOULD BE IN FAVOR IF WE'RE

GOING TO HAVE CANDIDATES IN THERE THAT GO IN THIS SECTION. >> THAT'S THE SECTION WE'RE

TALKING ABOUT. >> OKAY. AND SO THEREFORE, I THINK THIS SECTION SAYS 30 DAYS.

I MEAN, YOU DO THAT WHAT YOU WANT AS FAR AS THE DAYS. BUT WHAT IT'S SAYING IS IF YOU DON'T FILE A DISCLOSURE WITHIN SO MANY DAYS OF BEING NOTIFIED, THEN THAT'S WHEN THIS BECOMES

POTENTIALLY ACTIONABLE. >> CORRECT. >> IS THAT WHAT IT SAYS? THAT

IF THEY DON'T DO IT, WHAT HAPPENS? >> IT JUST DEFERS TO THE STANDARD ETHICS REQUIREMENTS, WHICH IS IT COULD BE A COMPLAINT FILED POTENTIALLY.

>> OKAY. ALL RIGHT. OKAY, OKAY. >> BUT 30 DAYS IS A CHALLENGE IN THE SENSE OF I THINK THE GOAL IS TO GET THIS DONE BEFORE THE COUNCIL TAKES ACTION ON SOMETHING 30 DAYS LATER DOESN'T

HELP IN SOME SITUATIONS. >> RIGHT? RIGHT. >> BUT I THINK IN THAT SITUATION, YOU MIGHT HAVE CREATED ANOTHER ETHICS ISSUE. IF YOU ACTED ON SOMETHING, RIGHT, THAT YOU MAYBE HAD A CONFLICT WITH, OH, YOU'RE JUST TALKING ABOUT THE DISCLOSURE.

>> YEAH, YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. >> OKAY. SO WE'RE OKAY WITH PUTTING IT IN THAT SECTION OF ETHICS CODE APPLIES TO CANDIDATES, THIS DISCLOSURE. AND THEN WHAT ABOUT THE 30 DAYS CURE ONCE NOTIFIED? OR WHAT DO Y'ALL WANT TO DO WITH THAT? ARE YOU OKAY WITH THAT LANGUAGE?

>> OR THAT THAT FEELS AWFULLY GENEROUS. NOT IN A POSITIVE WAY. LIKE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE RECOMMENDATION WOULD BE ON HOW WE SHORTEN IT. DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEAS ON THAT?

>> I HEAR YOU AND WE ALREADY HAVE IT STATED THAT WE EXPECT WITHIN TEN BUSINESS DAYS OF THE

[01:20:04]

MEETING OCCURRING, THE LOG BE MAINTAINED, AND THEN ONE BUSINESS DAY RECEIVING SOME TYPE OF INFORMATION OR IN THE BACKUP. SO MAYBE A 7 TO 10 BUSINESS DAY FROM BEING INFORMED BECAUSE IT IS JUST AGAIN, CHECKING OFF BOXES AND SAYING NAME, COMPANY DATE AND

PROJECT OR PENDING MATTER. >> TO THAT END, THAT'S VERY EASY WORK TO DO.

>> THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. I THINK THAT'S A VERY EASY THING. >> TO ANSWER. I WOULD JUST SAY YOU DON'T NEED LONGER THAN A WEEK TO DO THAT. REALLY, YOU DON'T NEED LONGER THAN FIVE

MINUTES. AND SO I WOULD JUST SAY FIVE BUSINESS DAYS. >> I CAN SUPPORT THAT.

>> OKAY. SO THIS IS AFTER NOTIFYING THAT YOU NEEDED TO DO IT. THIS IS REFERRING TO TEN DAYS AFTER THE MEETING OCCURRED. BUT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ONCE YOU'RE NOTIFIED THAT YOU NEED

TO FILE IT, YOU'RE SAYING FIVE DAYS, RIGHT? >> SO IF YOU DIDN'T FOLLOW THIS PROCEDURE AND YOU WERE NOTIFIED, HEY, YOU DIDN'T DO THE THING. YOU HAVE FIVE BUSINESS DAYS OR

FIVE DAYS. EXCUSE ME TO CURE THIS. >> IS IT FIVE DAYS OR FIVE

BUSINESS DAYS? >> BIG DATA. >> BIG DIFFERENCE. YEAH.

>> BUSINESS DAYS. >> ARE BUSINESS. MAKES MORE SENSE.

>> SORRY, I HAVE TO ADD ONE MORE. >> YEAH.

>> I MEAN, COUNCIL MEMBER. >> RUMOHR. >> CAN I CAN I BRING US TO TWO WEEKS BECAUSE THERE'S THE SCENARIO OF SOMEBODY BEING ON VACATION AND NOT SEEING THE NOTIFICATION. THEY COULD BE GONE FOR THAT WEEK THAT THEY GET THE NOTIFICATION. I DON'T I'D, I'D BE FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE WITH OR MAYBE A WEEK AND A HALF, BUT JUST

[C. ID 26-1192 Receive a report, hold a discussion, and give staff direction regarding the Fiscal Year 2026-27 Annual Internal Audit Plan. [Estimated Presentation/Discussion Time: 30 minutes]]

SOMETHING SO WE'RE NOT TRAPPING OR CATCHING SOMEBODY WHILE THEY'RE POTENTIALLY ON VACATION.

BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW I'D OR HOW LIKELY THAT WOULD BE, BUT JUST THROWING.

>> THAT SYMMETRY, YOU COULD DO THE TEN BUSINESS DAYS FROM NOTIFICATION. IT ALIGNS WITH

THE MAKES IT A LITTLE EASIER TO REMEMBER. >> AND THAT'S TWO WEEKS, BASICALLY ALMOST. YEAH, YEAH. AND, AND I'M OKAY WITH THAT ONLY BECAUSE THIS IS A CANDIDATE AND SOMETIMES CANDIDATES, I MEAN, YES, WE HAVE EMAIL ADDRESSES. YES WE HAVE. BUT HERE AS COUNCIL MEMBERS, WE'RE THERE'S INTERACTION ON A DAILY BASIS WITH STAFF. SO PEOPLE KNOW HOW TO GET AHOLD OF US. I MEAN, IF THERE NEEDS TO BE A REQUIREMENT, YOU KNOW, HEY, YOU DIDN'T YOU DIDN'T SUBMIT A DISCLOSURE. YEAH. I MEAN, I'M OKAY WITH WHATEVER WOULD YOU SAY TEN BUSINESS DAYS? YEAH, I'M OKAY WITH TEN BUSINESS DAYS BECAUSE

IT'S THE SAME STANDARD HERE. >> OKAY. OKAY. >> SO WE'LL DO THE TEN BUSINESS DAYS FOR THE CURE PROVISION. I THINK THAT ANSWERED ALL THE QUESTIONS THAT I HAD AND THAT

EVERYONE BROUGHT UP. BUT I DEFER TO YOU, MAYOR. >> DO WE? OKAY. AND ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ON THIS? I JUST HAVE ONE JUST QUESTION. IN OUR CANDIDATE PACKETS.

>> WELL, DID. >> THE CITY SECRETARY'S. >> OFFICE OKAY.

>> BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW IF THIS REQUIREMENT THAT WAS JUST READ. I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT'S HANDLED

EITHER. >> I DON'T KNOW. >> WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S FULL DISCLOSURE IN THOSE PACKETS. GIVE EVERYBODY FULL NOTICE THAT THESE ARE THE

EXPECTATIONS AS AS A. >> CANDIDATE, WE'LL MAKE THAT MAKE SURE THAT HAPPENS.

>> ALL RIGHT. GOOD. OKAY. FANTASTIC. ALL RIGHT. WELL SEE WE'RE OKAY. WHAT'S THE NEXT ONE?

HOW LONG IS THAT GOING TO TAKE YOU TO TAKE A BREAK? >> JUST TO KNOW. YEAH.

>> NO LET'S GO. LET'S GO WITH THE WE'LL GO AHEAD AND MOVE FORWARD. YEAH. AGENDA ITEM C I'D 26-1192. RECEIVE REPORT. HOLD A DISCUSSION. GIVE STAFF DIRECTION REGARDING THE FISCAL

YEAR 2020 627 ANNUAL INTERNAL AUDIT PLAN. >> HELLO.

>> I'M MADISON WARSHAW, YOUR DENTON CITY AUDITOR. I HAVE ANOTHER HANDOUT FOR YOU. THIS IS JUST. THIS HANDOUT IS THE AUDIT PLAN MEMO THAT'S IN YOUR BACKUP. BUT JUST SO THAT YOU

HAVE IT IN FRONT OF YOU TO REFERENCE WHILE WE'RE TALKING. >> THANK YOU, THANK YOU. THANK

YOU, I HAVE ONE WHICH I DON'T PULL IT UP IN ONE. >> OKAY. WELL, LET ME PULL UP THE PRESENTATION. ALL RIGHT. SO EVERY YEAR THE CITY COUNCIL SETS THE CITY CITY AUDITORS OFFICE'S WORK PLAN. THAT'S WHAT THIS IS ABOUT. JUST AS A QUICK REFRESHER, THE CITY AUDITOR'S OFFICE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR PROVIDING INDEPENDENT, OBJECTIVE REVIEWS OF CITY FUNCTIONS TO STRENGTHEN PUBLIC TRUST AND PROMOTE CONTINUOUS IMPROVEMENT THROUGHOUT THE CITY.

THESE REVIEWS GENERALLY FALL UNDER ONE OF THREE LINES OF SERVICES RELATED TO ASSURANCE, WHICH IS OUR GENERAL AUDITS CONSULTING, WHICH IS WHEN WE KIND OF ASSIST THE CITY MANAGER'S OFFICE OR SOME OTHER DEPARTMENT WITH SOMETHING. AND INVESTIGATIONS AS SHOWN IN THE FIGURE. IN ADDITION, WE PROVIDE SUPPORT TO THE BOARD OF ETHICS, WHICH YOU'RE ALL AWARE OF, AND WE HAVE ADMINISTRATIVE ACTIVITIES INCLUDING STAFF TRAINING AND DEVELOPMENT, PERFORMANCE MONITORING AND REPORTING, AND MANAGEMENT OF THE AUDIT PROJECT QUALITY CONTROL SYSTEM. AND SO AT THIS TIME, AS IT HAS BEEN KIND OF SINCE WE STARTED, OUR LARGEST FOCUS IS PROVIDING ASSURANCE SERVICES, WHICH IS SPECIFICALLY THE NEW AUDIT PROJECTS THAT YOU'RE LIKELY FAMILIAR WITH. SO BASED ON OUR STRATEGIC PLAN AND AVAILABLE STAFFING RESOURCES, I'VE PREPARED THIS PROPOSED TIME BUDGET AS SUMMARIZED IN THE FIGURE. UNDER THE TIME

[01:25:02]

BUDGET, MOST OF THE OFFICE'S TIME IS SPENT PERFORMING ASSURANCE SERVICES THROUGH AUDIT PROJECTS AND FOLLOW UP REVIEWS, BUT WE DO ALSO HAVE SOME TIME BUDGETED FOR NON AUDIT CONSULTATIONS AND INVESTIGATIVE SERVICES, AND ENGAGING DENTON COMMUNITY MEMBERS THROUGH KIND OF PERFORMANCE REPORTING AND ATTENDING EVENTS WHEN POSSIBLE.

IN ADDITION, WE HAVE ADMINISTRATIVE TASKS TO ENSURE THAT OUR AUDITING STANDARDS ARE MET. AND I'VE ALSO ADDED A LITTLE BIT OF TIME IN THE ADMINISTRATIVE BUCKET THIS YEAR TO CONDUCT A FOR 27, SORRY TO CONDUCT A COMPREHENSIVE RISK ASSESSMENT, WHICH WE PLAN TO COLLABORATE WITH OUR NEW. OUR CHIEF COMPLIANCE OFFICER WITH AND ALSO TO UPDATE THE AUDITOR'S GOVERNANCE FRAMEWORK AND STRATEGIC PLAN. WE'RE AT THE END OF OUR CURRENT STRATEGIC PLANS. WE WANT TO KIND OF GET THE BALL ROLLING FOR THE NEXT SIX YEARS. TO IDENTIFY KIND OF NEW POTENTIAL PROJECTS. WE REQUESTED INFORMATION FROM COUNCIL REGARDING THEIR PRIORITIES FOR USING OUR LIMITED RESOURCES NEXT YEAR. EACH COUNSELOR THAT RESPONDED WAS ASKED TO INDICATE WHICH OF THE FIVE FUNCTIONAL AREAS OF THE CITY WERE MOST IMPORTANT TO THEM FOR AUDITING PURPOSES AND WITHIN EACH AREA, WHAT PROGRAM OR SERVICES THEY WOULD LIKE TO SEE. ON THE FISCAL YEAR 27 PLAN, COUNSELORS HIGHLIGHTED PUBLIC HEALTH AS THEIR TOP PRIORITY WITH COMMUNITY, CHARACTER AND PUBLIC WORKS TYING FOR SECOND AND IN ADDITION, AT LEAST TWO COUNSELORS INDICATED THAT THEY'D LIKE TO SEE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, FIRE AND STREETS ON THE 27 AUDIT PLAN, BUT I. WHEN YOU SEE THE AUDIT PLAN OPTIONS, YOU'LL SEE WE DIDN'T HAVE ADD FIRE STATISTICS BECAUSE WE JUST AUDITED THEM IN 2026. AND THEN THERE ARE 11 OTHER FUNCTIONS THAT AT LEAST ONE COUNSELOR INDICATED THEY WOULD LIKE TO SEE AUDITED. SO THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT ARE KIND OF UNDERLINED HERE BASED ON THAT INFORMATION. DISCUSSES DISCUSSIONS WITH THE CITY MANAGER'S OFFICE AND REVIEW OF THE 20 2024 COMMUNITY SURVEYS. WE PREPARED SIX OPTIONS FOR YOU TO CHOOSE FROM FOR NEXT YEAR'S AUDIT PLAN. AND HERE THEY ARE. THEY'RE CATEGORIZED INTO PRIORITY RANKINGS BASED ON A RESIDENT RESPONSE SURVEY THAT WAS ISSUED THIS YEAR. WE GOT ABOUT 200 LITTLE UNDER 200 RESPONSES ON IT. AND THEN WITHIN EACH CATEGORY, THE PROPOSAL IS RANKED BY OUR OWN RISK SCORE. SO FURTHER INFORMATION ABOUT THE PROPOSED SCOPE IS IN THAT OF EACH PROJECT IS IN THE. THE HANDOUTS I PROVIDED TO YOU. AND THEN I DO WANT TO MENTION PART OF OUR STRATEGIC GOAL IS TO AUDIT EACH FUNCTIONAL AREA OF THE CITY AT LEAST ONCE EVERY SIX YEARS, AND SO THE PROJECT PROPOSALS WITH THE DIAMONDS NEXT TO THEM, WOULD EXPAND OUR COVERAGE FOR THE STRATEGIC PLAN PERIOD. SO WE HAVE 1750 HOURS AVAILABLE FOR THESE PROJECTS. AND SO I'D LIKE TO RECEIVE DIRECTION. NOW, I DO WANT TO MENTION THAT WE HAVE ABOUT 300 HOURS BUDGETED NEXT YEAR FOR THE WEATHER, WEATHER RELATED PREPAREDNESS AUDIT, WHICH WE HAVE NOT STARTED. THAT WAS APPROVED ON THIS LAST YEAR'S FISCAL PLAN. SO IN THEORY, THERE IS SOME HOURS YOU COULD PLAY WITH IF YOU WANTED TO, TO, TO NOT DO US TO NOT DO THAT PROJECT.

>> SO. I SEE. >> YES. COUNCIL MEMBER RUMOHR. >> WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO JUST GO IN PRIORITY ORDER OR HOW WOULD YOU DO YOU HAVE A PREFERRED WAY? OKAY. LOOKING AT BOTH THE THE RISK SCORE AND WHAT THE COMMUNITY HAS SAID, IT DOES SOUND LIKE JILL OPERATIONS NEEDS TO BE NUMBER ONE. OH, AND I DO WANT TO CONTINUE TO DO THE. THE WEATHER RELATED PREPAREDNESS. I MEAN, WE'RE SEEING A LOT OF FIRES AND CHANGES THERE. SO WE THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I THINK WE REALLY NEED TO INVEST IN. SO I DO WANT TO KEEP THAT. BUT IN TERMS OF NEW STUFF, JILL OPERATIONS IS NUMBER ONE, COMMUNITY CONTACT CENTERS. YOU KNOW, WE STILL HAVE SOME THREE, ONE, ONE STUFF TO KIND OF TO WORK THROUGH AND FIGURE OUT TOURISM INITIATIVES, ACTUALLY SUSTAINABILITY INITIATIVES. IT'S BASICALLY WHAT I AGREED WITH. AND THEN AIRPORT OVER LIBRARY. SO ALMOST EXACTLY THIS, EXCEPT THAT I WOULD SWAP

LIBRARY AND AIRPORT. THANK YOU. >> YOU'RE WELCOME. >> WHO ELSE.

>> WAS THAT? SIX. DID YOU DO THEM ALL? >> YES.

>> IN TERMS OF PRIORITY, I MEAN, I'M SURE I RAN OUT OF HOURS SOMEWHERE IN THERE, BUT I JUST

GAVE MY PRIORITY ORDER. >> YES, COUNCILMEMBER. >> JAIL, COMMUNITY CONTACT, TOURISM. SUSTAINABILITY. LIBRARY. AIRPORT IN THAT ORDER. SON OF A GUN. YEAH.

>> YOU SAID LIBRARY BEFORE AIRPORT. >> OKAY.

>> AS WRITTEN, BUT I'D PUT TOURISM INITIATIVES AT NUMBER ONE.

[01:30:10]

>> OKAY. >> WHAT WAS THAT YOU DO? >> WHAT IF WE'RE LISTING PRIORITIES? I WOULD SAY AS WRITTEN, BUT I WOULD ACCEPT PUTTING TOURISM INITIATIVES AT

THE TOP. >> OKAY. SORRY. >> I SAW YOU LOOKING AT ME LIKE IT'S YOUR TURN JUST TO MAKE SURE I HEARD THAT RIGHT. 1700 HOURS IS WHAT IS IS ABLE TO BE

ALLOCATED. IS THAT CORRECT? >> CORRECT. YEAH. >> SO 300 FOR WEATHERS WAS A

RECOMMENDATION FROM. CORRECT LAST YEAR. >> WE'RE AUTHORIZED TO DO THAT

PROJECT UNLESS YOU TELL US NOT TO. >> OKAY. BUT THAT COUNTS

AGAINST THE 1700 THAT EXISTS. >> SO IF YOU IF YOU DID NOT WANT US TO DO THAT, IT WOULD GO

UP TO 2000. >> OH THANK YOU. AND I'M GLAD I ASKED THAT. I DON'T THANK YOU.

I APPRECIATE THAT CLARIFICATION, FRIEND. UTILITY BILLING 311 RESPONSE. YEAH, I WOULD DO JAIL.

TOURISM, COMMUNITY SUSTAINABILITY. LIBRARY. AIRPORT. THANKS.

>> MAYOR PRO TEM. >> I DO I THIS IS PROBABLY IGNORANT OF ME AND I SHOULD HAVE ASKED AHEAD OF TIME. I VERY VAGUELY REMEMBER THIS CONVERSATION LAST YEAR WATCHING IT ON TV. CAN YOU REMIND ME ABOUT THE CONVERSATION REGARDING THE AUDIT OF WEATHER

AND WHAT ARE WE READY FOR IT? >> AND SO LIKE A PART OF THAT COULD BE LIKE, YOU KNOW, DRAINAGE AREAS, YOU'RE LOOKING AT ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF TO MAKE SURE WE'RE FOLLOWING ALL

THE STEPS IN THOSE SYSTEMS. >> RIGHT. WHAT PLANS DO WE HAVE? ARE WE MAKING SURE THAT WE'RE

FOLLOWING THOSE PLANS? YEAH. >> OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THANKS. >> OKAY. SO SO I UNDERSTAND YOU

HAVE 1700 HOURS. IS THAT RIGHT? >> CORRECT. >> OF THAT 1700, IF THE DIRECTION IS. THAT'S NOT IN ADDITION TO THE 300, THE 300 WOULD BE INCLUDED IN THAT 1700.

NO, IT IS ADDED. SO IT'S TOTAL OF 2000. >> IF.

>> YES. OKAY. >> IF WE GET DIRECTION TO DO THE WEATHER STILL, WHICH I'M CONSIDERING, WE HAVE DIRECTION BECAUSE THE PREVIOUS COUNCIL GAVE US. SO THAT'S WHERE WE GET

THE 1717 PLUS THE. >> 302,000 TOTAL. YOU GOT 300. >> OKAY.

>> ALREADY ALLOCATED. JUST RESOLVE THAT EVERYBODY OKAY WITH MOVING FORWARD WITH THE THAT WAS GIVEN DIRECTION LAST YEAR ON THE WEATHER RELATED AUDIT. IS THAT EVERYBODY. YEAH.

OKAY. ALL RIGHT. SO NOW SO THEN WE'VE GOT 1700 HOURS LEFT. >> CORRECT.

>> SO YOU'VE GOT 600, 505 HUNDRED IN THE FIRST THREE AUDITS.

>> YEP. >> WELL, YEAH, THAT'S BARELY GOING TO I MEAN, YOU'LL BASICALLY GET THREE AUDITS CORRECT. OKAY. I WOULD SAY THEN MY PRIORITY WOULD BE JAIL OPERATIONS. TOURISM. LET ME SEE WHAT BECAUSE I READ THAT. OKAY. YEAH, I THINK I WOULD PUT TOURISM INITIATIVES BECAUSE I THINK BASED UPON OUR CONVERSATION DURING THE BUDGET

PROCESS OF HOTEL ROOMS, HOT FUNDS, CPC, ALL THAT, I THINK. >> IT WOULD.

>> BE A LITTLE BROADER THAN THAT, BUT IT WOULD. >> DEFINITELY BUT IT WOULD IT WOULD PROVIDE A BROAD SENSE OF WHAT ARE WE DOING TO PROMOTE TOURISM AND HOW IS THAT WORKING OR WHAT ARE THE REQUIREMENTS AND SO FORTH AND SO ON. ALL RIGHT. SO. SUSTAINABILITY. SO UNDER SUSTAINABILITY. OKAY. SO THAT'S NOT REALLY ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE ENERGY. YOU KNOW,

THAT'S JUST SUSTAINABILITY, LIKE INCENTIVES, CORRECT. >> IT'S MOSTLY FOCUSED ON THE

[01:35:03]

INCENTIVES. >> OKAY. >> ALL RIGHT. OKAY.

>> AND THE SUSTAINABILITY PLAN, ARE WE MEETING OUR GOALS THERE? HOW ARE WE REPORTING ON THAT?

>> OKAY. YEAH. >> I WOULD SAY THAT WOULD BE MY THIRD. FOURTH WOULD BE AIRPORT.

BUT I HATE TO PUT IT THAT LOW BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT. THERE'S A LOT GOING ON OUT THERE. AND SO THEN THAT WOULD MAKE THE FIFTH, I GUESS, LIBRARY OPERATIONS.

>> WHAT ABOUT COMMUNITY CONTACT CENTERS? >> OH.

>> I'D PROBABLY PUT THAT AHEAD OF LIBRARY OPERATIONS. >> OKAY.

>> SO DEFINITELY WE GOT CONSENSUS FOR THE JAIL. AND FOR TOURISM. AND IT SEEMS LIKE THE

COMMUNITY CONTACT CENTERS. AND THAT WOULD GET US TO 16. >> AND THAT WOULD BE FINE WITH

ME. I MEAN, YEAH, I MEAN, THAT'S THAT'S FINE. YEAH. >> YEAH.

>> I THINK, I THINK, I THINK IF YOU WANTED TO, YOU COULD AUTHORIZE SUSTAINABILITY WITH

THE KNOWLEDGE THAT WE WON'T FINISH IT IN 27. >> SURE.

>> WHY DON'T WE REVISIT THAT AS WE GET CLOSER TO WRAPPING SOME OF THESE OTHER ONES UP? YOU

KNOW, WE CAN REVISIT THAT. >> IT'S VERY LIKELY IT'LL APPEAR ON THE NEXT YEAR'S PLAN.

OKAY. AS AN OPTION. >> SURE, SURE. >> OKAY. YOU BET.

>> YEAH, YEAH. >> BECAUSE WE GOT A BIG CONVERSATION COMING UP ON THE 27TH ABOUT ENERGY AND SO FORTH. AND SO I THINK THAT'LL HELP WITH THAT. OKAY.

>> ALL RIGHT. >> THE LAST THING I JUST WANT TO TOUCH ON BRIEFLY WITH THIS IS WE ALSO DO AS PART OF OUR WORK FOLLOW UPS. THIS IS THESE ARE THE FOLLOW UPS WE'RE PLANNING TO, TO KIND OF GET OUT NEXT YEAR. A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF HOURS IS DEDICATED TO FOLLOW UPS. THAT'S BECAUSE WE KIND OF GOT BEHIND THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS. WE TALKED ABOUT THAT IN

[D. ID 26-0633 Receive a report, hold a discussion, and give staff direction on pending City Council requests for: 1) Reviewing the downtown TIRZ for possible amendments to the categories for funding. 2) Waiving development fees for the Permanent Supportive Housing project, known as McAdams Haven [Estimated Presentation/Discussion Time: 30 minutes]]

DEPTH LAST TIME. AND WE'VE I THINK WE'VE ISSUED 6 TO 9 FOLLOW UP REPORTS THIS YEAR.

IT'S BEEN A LOT. BUT THIS WILL KIND OF ONCE WE FINISH 27, WE'LL BE CAUGHT UP.

>> ALL RIGHT. GREAT. >> OKAY. SO FANTASTIC. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS. ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU MADISON. VERY THOROUGH AND HELPFUL. THANK YOU. WE'LL JUST GO AHEAD AND MOVE THROUGH OUR LAST AGENDA ITEM. THEN WE'LL TAKE A BREAK BEFORE WE GO INTO CLOSED SESSION AGENDA ITEM FOUR D I'D 26-0633 RECEIVE REPORT, HOLD A DISCUSSION AND GIVE STAFF DIRECTION ON PENDING CITY COUNCIL REQUESTS FOR ONE. REVIEWING THE DOWNTOWN TOURS FOR POSSIBLE AMENDMENTS TO THE CATEGORIES FOR FUNDING, AND THEN TWO WAIVING DEVELOPMENT FEES FOR THE PERMANENT SUPPORTIVE HOUSING PROJECT KNOWN AS MCADAMS HAVEN.

>> GOOD AFTERNOON, MAYOR AND COUNCIL. JUST STACKHOUSE, ASSISTANT TO THE CITY MANAGER.

A QUICK BACKGROUND ON THE. HERE TO PRESENT THE TWO MINUTE PITCH ITEM. QUICK BACKGROUND ON THAT.

THE REQUESTING COUNCIL MEMBER WILL HAVE UP TO TWO MINUTES TO DESCRIBE AND JUSTIFY THE REQUEST. MANY COUNCIL MEMBERS WILL THEN HAVE A MAXIMUM OF ONE MINUTE TO PROVIDE FEEDBACK AND INDICATE THEIR SUPPORT FOR THE USE OF CITY STAFF. TIME TO RESPOND TO THE REQUEST. STAFF WILL RESPOND TO ALL REQUESTS THAT WERE A CONSENSUS OF AT LEAST FOUR ELECTED OFFICIALS IS ESTABLISHED. THE AGENDA COMMITTEE WILL ASSIST IN SCHEDULING TIME ITEMS RECEIVING CONSENSUS, AND COUNCIL MEMBERS MAY NOTE THEIR PRIORITY OF HIGH, MODERATE OR LOW WHEN SUPPORTING

AN ITEM. SO, MAYOR, LET YOU TAKE IT FIRST. >> ALL RIGHT. LET ME START THE CLOCK. YEAH. THIS IS I MEAN, WE'VE DISCUSSED THIS BEFORE BRIEFLY IN PREVIOUS MEETINGS.

I'M JUST ASKING FOR A CONVERSATION ABOUT LOOKING AT THE TOURS AND SEEING IF THERE'S SOME OPPORTUNITY TO AMEND THE ORIGINAL PROJECT PLAN TO INCLUDE SOME OTHER ITEMS OR PROJECTS THAT WOULD BE AVAILABLE FOR FUNDING. AND I.E. THE ONE THAT I BROUGHT UP WAS, YOU KNOW, CAN WE USE SOME OF THAT FUNDING TO CLEAN THE SQUARE? BUT THAT COULD BE, YOU KNOW, YOU COULD DO IF WE CAN OPEN IT UP FOR DISCUSSION, LET'S OPEN IT UP FOR, YOU KNOW, ANY GOOD IDEAS THAT THAT THE TOURISM FUNDING WOULD BE AVAILABLE FOR? IT'S ALL OF OUR OWN MONEY. NOBODY ELSE IS PARTICIPATING IN THE TOURS. IT'S SPECIFICALLY FOR THE DOWNTOWN AREA. AND I THINK IT INCLUDES THE EXPANDED AREA TOURS ONE AND TWO. I WAS HERE, WHICH IS HARD TO SAY WHEN THE FIRST HERS WHEN IT CAME FORWARD BEFORE, WHICH WAS, I DON'T KNOW, 2011 OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, I DON'T REMEMBER, I DON'T EVEN REMEMBER. SO I THINK IT'S JUST TIME TO REVISIT THE PROJECT PLAN, JUST TO SEE WHAT WE'RE WHERE WE'RE GOING, WHERE WE'RE HEADING, BECAUSE IT REALLY HASN'T PLAYED OUT THE WAY IT WAS ORIGINALLY, YOU KNOW, INTENDED TO. THAT'S NOT ANYBODY'S FAULT. THAT'S JUST THE WAY THINGS GO SOMETIMES WITH THE ECONOMY AND SO FORTH. SO I THINK WE CAN I THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA JUST TO TALK ABOUT IT. WE'VE RECOGNIZED SOME ISSUES WITH THE SQUARE THAT WE'D LIKE TO ADDRESS, AND WE'VE BEEN KIND OF SHORT IN THE ABILITY TO FUND THAT, AND WE'VE BEEN RECEIVING SEVERAL OBSERVATIONS AND COMMENTS ABOUT THE CONDITION. SO IT'S NOT JUST FOR THAT, BUT TO OPEN IT UP

[01:40:01]

JUST TO EXPLORE, HEY, IS THIS SOMETHING WE WANT TO DO? AND LET'S SEE IF WE CAN'T MAKE IT BETTER AND BE A BETTER BENEFIT FOR THE CITY. OKAY, THAT'S IT FOR ME. MAYOR PRO TEM AND

COUNCIL MEMBER HOLLAND. >> I SUPPORT THIS. I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S SOMETHING ABOVE HIGH PRIORITY, BUT IF THERE IS, I WANT THAT. I WANT TO HAVE THIS CONVERSATION AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE BECAUSE I WANT US TO BE I WILL ECHO WHAT I KEEP ECHOING IS THAT THE DOWNTOWN IS

A PIT RIGHT NOW, AND WE GOT TO DO BETTER. >> AND IT'S A HIGH PRIORITY.

I'M GLAD YOU REMINDED ME THAT, COUNCILMEMBER HOLLAND. >> I, I, I SUPPORT THIS AT A HIGH PRIORITY. AND THAT ALMOST SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S, THERE'S AN URGENCY THAT IT NEEDS TO BE DONE THIS AFTERNOON, BUT IT, IT NEEDS TO BE DONE QUICKLY. I WAS EMBARRASSED AT THE PARADE DAY WHEN, WHEN I SAW THE CONDITION OF MY SQUARE AND WE HAD IT GOING ON AND, AND WE DROPPED THE BALL ON IT AND WE NEED TO START THAT AGAIN. SO I SUPPORT THIS AT A HIGH PRIORITY.

>> THANK YOU, COUNCIL MEMBER COUNCILMEMBER RUMOHR. >> I SUPPORT HAVING THIS

DISCUSSION AND I APPRECIATE YOU PITCHING IT. >> OKAY.

>> I SUPPORT THIS A HIGH PRIORITY. THANKS. >> ALL RIGHT, ALL RIGHT. WE'LL

MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ONE. >> NEXT ONE IS ON THE TOPIC OF WAIVING DEVELOPMENT FEES FOR THE PERMANENT SUPPORTIVE HOUSING PROJECT AND ADAMS HAVEN AND FOR COUNCIL MEMBER PERRY,

AND LET YOU STATE THAT AS YOU LIKE. >> I'M REQUESTING A WORK SESSION TO DISCUSS ESTABLISHING A FORMAL, A FORMAL, CITY WIDE POLICY THAT ALLOWS DENTON TO WAIVE OR SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCE OR SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCE DEVELOPMENT IMPACT FEES FOR PERMANENT SUPPORTIVE HOUSING AND DEEPLY AFFORDABLE HOUSING PROJECTS. OVER THE PAST YEAR, PRIOR TO MY JOINING, THIS, COUNCIL DEMONSTRATED TREMENDOUS LEADERSHIP BY REMOVING BARRIERS TO AFFORDABLE HOUSING, SUCH AS REDUCING PARKING REQUIREMENTS AND REVAMPING OUR SCORING MATRIX FOR TAX ABATEMENTS TO PRIORITIZE SUPPORTIVE HOUSING AND AFFORDABLE HOUSING. THIS COUNCIL HAS ALREADY DETERMINED AFFORDABLE HOUSING AS A LEGISLATIVE PRIORITY MOVING INTO THE 90TH SESSION, AND IN THE MEANTIME, WE CAN CONTINUE THIS EFFORT THROUGH STRONG POLICY CREATION TO GUIDE THESE DECISIONS. HOWEVER, A MASSIVE STRUCTURAL BARRIER REMAINS UPFRONT. MUNICIPAL FEES. TO ILLUSTRATE THIS, CONSIDER THE MACK ADAMS HAVEN PROJECT, CURRENTLY BEING DEVELOPED BY THE NONPROFIT AFFORDABLE HOUSING CORP. AS THE FIRST DEVELOPMENT OF ITS KIND IN OUR REGION. IT WILL PROVIDE 84 UNITS OF HOUSING TO CHRONICALLY UNHOUSED INDIVIDUALS, PAIRED WITH ON SITE MENTAL HEALTH AND CASE MANAGEMENT SERVICES THROUGH MMR. YET THIS NONPROFIT IS CURRENTLY SADDLED WITH OVER $680,000 IN CITY FEES. AND WHILE ADAMS HAVEN PERFECTLY ILLUSTRATES THE URGENCY, MY REQUEST TODAY IS NOT FOR A PROJECT SPECIFIC EXEMPTION. RATHER, IT IS TO DISCUSS A COMPREHENSIVE, PREDICTABLE POLICY. TEXAS LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE, SECTION 395.016 G, EXPLICITLY GRANTS US THE STATUTORY AUTHORITY TO WAIVE IMPACT FEES FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING. BY UTILIZING THE STATE SANCTIONED TOOL, WE CAN REMOVE HURDLES FOR NONPROFITS, HELPING THEM UNLOCK MASSIVE FEDERAL AND STATE INVESTMENTS. THROUGH MY ROLES ON BOTH THE DENTON COUNTY HOUSING AND HOMELESSNESS LEADERSHIP TEAM AND THE BEHAVIORAL HEALTH LEADERSHIP TEAM. AS A CITY APPOINTEE, I SEE FIRSTHAND HOW PERMANENT SUPPORTIVE HOUSING AND AFFORDABLE HOUSING DRASTICALLY REDUCES THE FINANCIAL STRAIN ON OUR POLICE AND FIRE, EVICTION COURTS AND COUNTY JAILS, ULTIMATELY SAVING TAXPAYERS HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS WHILE MAKING HOMELESSNESS RARE, BRIEF, AND NON-RECURRING, I RESPECTFULLY ASK FOR YOUR CONSENSUS CONSENSUS TO SCHEDULE A WORK SESSION SO STAFF CAN PRESENT POLICY OPTIONS FOR THESE HIGHLY

BENEFICIAL PROJECTS. THANK YOU. >> OKAY. ALL RIGHT. OKAY. COMMENTS. YES, COUNCILMEMBER.

>> I SUPPORTED A DISCUSSION OF EXPLORING THE THE WAVING OF DEVELOPMENT FEES FOR NONPROFIT PERMANENT SUPPORTIVE HOUSING. I MIGHT BE OKAY WITH NONPROFIT AFFORDABLE HOUSING AS WELL, BUT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THE GUIDELINES ARE ON THAT. BUT I'M SUPPORTIVE OF

HAVING THIS DISCUSSION. OKAY. THANK YOU. >> YES. COUNCILMEMBER HOLLAND.

>> I WOULD PRESUME THAT THE FEES ARE THERE FOR FOR A REASON, AND I WOULD NOT BE SUPPORTIVE

OF THIS. >> MAYOR PRO TEM. >> I'M SUPPORTIVE OF THE

CONVERSATION. >> OKAY. I WANT TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND AND I'M GLAD I'M THE CHAIR BECAUSE I HAVE. BUT THIS IS MY ONE MINUTE. SO I'M UNDERSTANDING THAT THE THE SCOPE OF THE PITCH HAS SORT OF BEEN BROADENED A LITTLE BIT. NOT OKAY. ALL RIGHT. SO I'M GOOD WITH THAT. SO YEAH, I'M OKAY WITH HAVING THE CONVERSATION. I DO KNOW THAT THE STATUTE THAT WAS READ BY COUNCILMEMBER REFERS TO IMPACT FEES SPECIFICALLY. THERE'S CERTAINLY OTHER FEES. SO I'M OPEN TO THE CONVERSATION TO SEE IF THERE'S SOMETHING WE CAN DO OR IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT IF WE'RE ALREADY DOING IT. SO YEAH, IT, IT'S OKAY TO, TO TALK ABOUT

[1. Closed Meeting:]

IT. YEAH. SO THAT, THAT IS FOR, TO MOVE IT FORWARD TO THE PROCESS, WHICH IS THE AGENDA COMMITTEE AND THEN TO DECIDE IF IT NEEDS TO GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. IS THAT, OH, DID YOU HAVE A

[01:45:03]

PRIORITY? HE YEAH. >> I HESITATE TO PUT PRIORITY ON THINGS BECAUSE IT ALL TURNS INTO HIGH. I MEAN, PERSONALLY I FEEL HIGH, BUT I WOULD JUST SAY WHEREVER IT MAKES SENSE. YEAH, I KIND OF LEAVE IT OPEN TO WHERE IT MAKES SENSE WITHIN ALL OF OUR OTHER HIGH PRIORITIES.

THANK YOU. >> YEAH, I WOULD SAY MEDIUM ONLY IN THE SENSE THAT I THINK I AGREE WITH COUNCILMEMBER, YOU'RE THEY'RE GOING TO FIT IT IN WHERE THEY CAN. AND SINCE THIS IS SORT OF A POLICY DISCUSSION, IT'S NOT REALLY ADDRESSING A SPECIFIC SITUATION, THEN THAT GIVES US A LITTLE MORE TIME TO DO IT IN A WAY THAT'S MORE COMPREHENSIVE. SO YEAH, BUT IT'LL FIT IN WHERE IT FITS IN. OKAY. OKAY. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, JUSTIN. ALL RIGHT. WE WILL. LET'S TAKE ABOUT A FIVE. SHOULD I GO AHEAD AND CALL CALL THE

[AFTER DETERMINING THAT A QUORUM IS PRESENT, THE SPECIAL CALLED MEETING OF THE CITY OF DENTON CITY COUNCIL WILL CONVENE IN THE COUNCIL CHAMBERS AT CITY HALL, 215 E. MCKINNEY STREET, DENTON, TEXAS FOR CONSIDERATION OF THE CONSENT AGENDA AND ITEMS FOR INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING THE CLOSED MEETING.]

WELS MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL. IT'S 5:47 P.M. ON SEPTEMBER THE 22ND, 2026. WE'RE GOING TO MOVE THROUGH OUR AGENDA ITEM FOR THIS SPECIAL CALLED MEETING.

AND OF COURSE, JUST AS A REMINDER, THE PUBLIC HEARINGS ARE SCHEDULED FOR 630. SO WE WILL PROCEED THROUGH SOME OF THE AGENDA ITEMS THAT WE CAN UP TO THAT POINT, AND THEN WE'LL

[1. CONSENT AGENDA]

TAKE THE PUBLIC HEARINGS AND THOSE ORDERS. SO OUR FIRST ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS THE CONSENT AGENDA. AND AS NOTED IN THE WORK SESSION, CONSENT AGENDA, J IS BEING PULLED TO BE CONSIDERED AT SOME OTHER LATER DATE. SO NO OTHER ITEMS HAVE BEEN PULLED. SO CHAIR WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION FOR THE CONSENT AGENDA. COUNCIL MEMBER FERRY.

>> SO MOVED. >> COUNCILMEMBER RUMOHR SECOND. ALL RIGHT. WE HAVE A VOTE. A MOTION IN A SECOND FOR THE CONSENT AGENDA. LET'S VOTE PLEASE. MOTION CARRIES 5 TO 0.

[A. A26-0007 Consider adoption of an ordinance of the City of Denton, Texas regarding a Municipal Services Agreement, pursuant to Tex. Loc. Gov. Code Sec. 43.0672, between the City of Denton and The Residences of Lake District No. 1, LTD. for the provision of city services to approximately 28.212 acres of land, generally located on the north side of Jim Christal Road, approximately 1,284 feet west of the intersection of North Masch Branch Road and Jim Christal Road; approving a schedule of annexation; authorizing the City Manager to execute the agreement; and providing an effective date. (A26-0007, Lybbert-Rogers-Cole, Sean Jacobson)]

WE WILL NOW MOVE TO OUR AGENDA ITEM TWO, WHICH IS ITEMS FOR INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION TWO A WHICH IS A 26-0007 CONSIDER ADOPTION OF AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF DENTON, TEXAS REGARDING A MUNICIPAL SERVICES AGREEMENT PURSUANT TO TEXAS LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE SECTION 43.0672.

>> THANK YOU. GOOD EVENING, MAYOR AND MEMBERS OF COUNCIL. SEAN JACOBSON, SENIOR PLANNER HERE TO PRESENT A 267 THE ROGERS COLE MUNICIPAL SERVICES AGREEMENT. THIS IS THE FIRST IN A SERIES OF ITEMS WE WILL LOOK AT TONIGHT FOR THIS ANNEXATION. SO THE FIRST PART IS TO CONSIDER ADOPTION OF AN ORDINANCE APPROVING A MUNICIPAL SERVICES AGREEMENT WITH THIS PROPERTY. IT'S ABOUT 28 ACRES NORTH OF JIM CRYSTAL ROAD. AND WE WOULD ALSO BE LOOKING AT APPROVING A SCHEDULE OF ANNEXATION FOR THIS PROPERTY. SO THIS PROPERTY, REPRESENTED BY KIMLEY-HORN ON BEHALF OF THE PROPERTY OWNERS, RESIDENTS OF LAKE DISTRICT NUMBER ONE LIMITED. CURRENTLY IT IS UNDER AN ANNEXATION AGREEMENT. THEY ARE COMING IN VOLUNTARILY. THE PROPERTY IS MOSTLY UNDEVELOPED. IT CONTAINS A FEW AGRICULTURAL ACCESSORY BUILDINGS. THESE AGREEMENTS ARE REVIEWED BY ALL OF OUR DEPARTMENTS. THE PROPOSED ANNEXATION SCHEDULE, AS NOTED HERE. SO TONIGHT WE WILL NEED TO TAKE ACTION ON THE MUNICIPAL SERVICES AGREEMENT ITEM. WE WILL ALSO HAVE THE PUBLIC HEARING BUT NOT TAKE ACTION, AS WELL AS THE FIRST READING OF THE ANNEXATION ORDINANCE, NOT TAKE ACTION LATER WE WILL HAVE THE PUBLICATION AND THE SECOND READING. WITH THAT, HAPPY TO STAND FOR ANY QUESTIONS.

>> ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? SEEING NONE, COUNCIL MEMBER RUMOHR.

>> I'D LIKE TO MOTION APPROVAL. >> COUNCIL MEMBER HOLLAND. >> SECOND THAT.

>> WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND LET'S VOTE PLEASE. MOTION CARRIES FIVE ZERO. WE WILL NOW MOVE TO OUR ITEMS FOR INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION WHICH IS AGENDA ITEM FOUR. HOWEVER,

[E. ID 26-0570 Consider adoption of an ordinance of the City of Denton approving an amendment to the existing rates, fees, and charges for City owned property and facilities upon Denton Enterprise Airport; repealing ordinance number 25-164 and superseding prior Airport fee schedules; providing for severability; and declaring an effective date.]

WE WILL SKIP DOWN AND BEGIN AT AGENDA ITEM E BECAUSE OF JUST THOSE. THOSE PREVIOUS TO THAT ARE BUDGETARY ITEMS. AND WE HAVE TO ADOPT THE BUDGET FIRST. SO WE'RE GOING TO GO WITH AGENDA ITEM E4E, WHICH IS ID 26-0570. IT LOOKS LIKE MOST OF THESE ARE FEES PURSUANT TO

SOMETHING I GUESS THAT WE'RE ADOPTING. >> YEAH THAT'S CORRECT. GOOD EVENING, MAYOR AND COUNCIL. AMY KASLIK CHIEF STRATEGIC OFFICER. WE DO NOT HAVE PRESENTATIONS FOR THE RATE CHANGES WHICH ARE PRESENTED AS ITEMS E THROUGH N. THESE ARE RELATED TO FEE ADJUSTMENTS FOR THE AIRPORT DEVELOPMENT SERVICES AND ENGINEERING REVIEWS, PARKS AND RECREATION. THE FIRE DEPARTMENT, LIBRARY, CUSTOMER SERVICE, BUILDING, SAFETY WATER, WASTEWATER DRAINAGE AND SOLID WASTE AND RECYCLING. HOWEVER, WE ARE HERE TO ADDRESS ANY

QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE. >> OKAY, SO, MR. CITY ATTORNEY, DO WE HAVE TO VOTE ON THESE INDIVIDUALLY? OKAY, SO I'LL JUST CALL THEM, BUT WE'LL ASK QUESTIONS COLLECTIVELY RIGHT

[01:50:04]

NOW. AND IF THERE'S NO QUESTIONS, WE'RE JUST GOING TO START PROCEEDING THROUGH THESE AGENDA ITEMS. OKAY. ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? SEEING NONE. COUNCIL MEMBER FERRY.

>> I MOTION TO APPROVE ITEM E. >> MAYOR PRO TEM. >> SECOND.

>> WE HAVE MOTION SECOND. LET'S VOTE PLEASE. MOTION CARRIES FIVE ZERO. WE'LL MOVE ON TO

[F. ID 26-1490 Consider adoption of an ordinance of the City of Denton, Texas, establishing a Development Services and Engineering Review schedule of fees to update existing fees and adopt new fees for the Development Services and Engineering departments of the City of Denton; repealing ordinance number 25-708; providing for severability; and establishing an effective date.]

AGENDA ITEM FOUR. FD26-1490. NO QUESTIONS WERE ASKED. SO CONSIDER ADOPTION OF AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF DENTON, TEXAS, ESTABLISHING A DEVELOPMENT SERVICES AND ENGINEERING REVIEW REVIEW SCHEDULE OF FEES TO UPDATE EXISTING FEES. MAYOR PRO TEM.

>> I MOVE APPROVAL OF ITEM F. >> COUNCIL MEMBER HOLLAND. >> SECOND THAT.

>> MOTION SECOND. LET'S VOTE. PLEASE. MOTION CARRIES FIVE ZERO. AGENDA ITEM FOUR G ID

[G. ID 26-1491 Consider adoption of an ordinance of the City of Denton adopting a schedule of fees, updating the existing charges and fees for use of City owned property and facilities, and for City services provided at or by Parks and Recreation; repealing ordinance number 25-1638 and superseding prior fee schedules; providing severability and repealer clauses; and providing an effective date.]

26-1491. CONSIDER ADOPTION OF AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF DENTON. ADOPTING A SCHEDULE OF FEES. UPDATING THE EXISTING CHARGES AND FEES FOR USE OF CITY OWNED PROPERTIES AND

FACILITIES. COUNCIL MEMBER PERRY. >> MOTION I MOTION APPROVAL OF

ITEM G. >> MAYOR PRO TEM. >> SECOND.

>> LET'S VOTE. PLEASE. MOTION CARRIES FIVE ZERO. AGENDA ITEM FOUR I. I'D 26-1493. CONSIDER

[I. ID 26-1493 Consider adoption of an ordinance of the City of Denton adopting a schedule of fees for the Denton Public Library; repealing ordinance 25-1631 and superseding all prior ordinances establishing fees in conflict with such schedule; providing for severability; and providing for an effective date.]

ADOPTION OF AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF DENTON. ADOPTING A SCHEDULE OF FEES FOR THE DENTON PUBLIC LIBRARY. MAYOR PRO TEM DID I MISS ONE H OKAY, WELL, ALL RIGHT, WE'LL GO BACK TO H.

I MARKED IT OFF. SORRY. GO AHEAD. >> I MOVE APPROVAL OF ITEM I.

>> OKAY, WE'LL TAKE THAT. THAT'S COOL. COUNCIL MEMBER PERRY.

>> I'LL SECOND. >> ALL RIGHT. WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. LET'S VOTE.

PLEASE. MOTION CARRIES FIVE ZERO. AGENDA ITEM FOUR H. I'D 26-1492. CONSIDERING AN

[H. ID 26-1492 Consider an ordinance adopting a schedule of fees for the Denton Fire Department; repealing ordinance number 25-1868 and superseding all prior Fire Department fee schedules in conflict with such schedule; providing severability; providing a repealer; and establishing an effective date.]

ORDINANCE ADOPTING A SCHEDULE OF FEES FOR THE DENTON FIRE DEPARTMENT. MAYOR PRO TEM.

>> I MOVE APPROVAL OF ITEM H. >> COUNCIL MEMBER FERRY. >> I SECOND.

>> WE HAVE A MOTION A SECOND FOR AGENDA ITEM H. LET'S VOTE PLEASE. MOTION CARRIES FIVE

[J. ID 26-1552 Consider an ordinance of the City of Denton, Texas providing for the schedule of miscellaneous fees, deposits, billings and procedures for administrative services to city utilities’ customers, taxpayers, and other customers of city services; repealing ordinance number 22-1858 and superseding all prior ordinances establishing fees in direct conflict with such schedule; providing for a severability clause; and, providing an effective date. The Public Utilities Board (PUB) recommends approval (4-0).]

ZERO. AGENDA ITEM FOUR J. I'D 26-1552. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF DENTON, TEXAS, PROVIDING FOR THE SCHEDULE OF MISCELLANEOUS FEES, DEPOSITS, BILLINGS AND PROCEDURES FOR ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES TO CITY UTILITIES, CUSTOMERS, TAXPAYERS AND OTHER CUSTOMERS OF CITY

SERVICES. COUNCIL MEMBER RUMOHR. >> MOTION APPROVAL. >> MAYOR PRO TEM.

>> SECOND. >> LET'S VOTE. PLEASE. MOTION CARRIES. FIVE ZERO. AGENDA ITEM

[K. ID 26-1576 Consider adoption of an ordinance of the City of Denton, Texas, authorizing the City Manager or designee to amend the Building Safety schedule of fees including fees for permits, health and food safety permits, fence and retaining wall permits, mobile home moving fees, temporary permits, procedural fees, and investigation and administrative fees; repealing ordinance number 25-707; providing for severability; and establishing an effective date.]

4K. I'D 26-1576. CONSIDER ADOPTION OF AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF DENTON, TEXAS, AUTHORIZING THE CITY MANAGER OR DESIGNEE TO AMEND THE BUILDING SAFETY SCHEDULE FEES, INCLUDING FEES FOR PERMITS, HEALTH AND FOOD SAFETY PERMITS, FENCE AND RETAINING WALL PERMITS, MOBILE HOME MOVING FEES, TEMPORARY PERMITS. ET-CETERA COUNCIL MEMBER HOLLAND.

>> I MOVE TO APPROVE THIS ITEM. >> COUNCIL MEMBER MOORE. >> SECOND.

>> WE HAVE A MOTION IN A SECOND FOR AGENDA ITEM K. LET'S VOTE PLEASE. I DON'T THINK I, I DON'T THINK I HIT. WE MAY HAVE TO. OH, THERE WE GO. SORRY. ALL RIGHT. MOTION CARRIES FIVE ZERO.

[L. ID 26-0568 Consider adoption of an ordinance of the City of Denton, Texas, establishing the rates and fees for Water and Water Service; repealing ordinance No. 24-2629; providing for a repealer; providing for a severability clause; and, providing an effective date. The Public Utilities Board (PUB) recommends approval (4-0).]

OKAY. AGENDA ITEM FOUR L, WHICH IS ID 26-0568. CONSIDERED ADOPTION OF AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF DENTON, TEXAS. ESTABLISHING THE RATES AND FEES FOR WATER AND WATER SERVICE.

COUNCIL MEMBER MOORE. >> MOTION APPROVAL. >> COUNCIL MEMBER HOLLAND.

>> SECOND THAT. >> WE HAVE A MOTION, A SECOND FOR AGENDA ITEM L LET'S VOTE PLEASE. MOTION CARRIES FIVE ZERO. AGENDA ITEM FOR AGENDA ITEM FOUR. M ID 26-0569.

[M. ID 26-0569 Consider adoption of an ordinance of the City of Denton, Texas, establishing the schedule of rates and fees for Wastewater service; repealing ordinance No. 24-2630; providing for a repealer; providing for a severability clause; and, providing an effective date. The Public Utilities Board (PUB) recommends approval (4-0).]

CONSIDER ADOPTION OF AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF DENTON, TEXAS. ESTABLISHING THE SCHEDULE OF RATES AND FEES FOR WASTEWATER SERVICE. REPEALING ORDINANCE NUMBER 24-2630. MAYOR

PRO TEM. >> MOVE APPROVAL OF ITEM M. >> COUNCIL MEMBER RUMOHR.

>> SECOND. >> WE HAVE A MOTION AND SECOND, FOR AGENDA ITEM FOUR M LET'S

[01:55:04]

VOTE PLEASE. MOTION CARRIES FIVE ZERO AGENDA ITEM FOUR N, WHICH IS ID 26-0572. CONSIDER

[N. ID 26-0572 Consider adoption of an ordinance of the City of Denton, Texas, establishing the rates for Solid Waste and Recycling Collection service; repealing ordinance No. 24-2632; providing for a repealer; providing for a severability clause; and, providing an effective date. The Public Utilities Board (PUB) recommends approval (4-0).]

ADOPTION OF AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF DENTON, TEXAS. ESTABLISHING THE RATES FOR SOLID WASTE AND RECYCLING COLLECTION SERVICE. COUNCIL MEMBER RUMOHR.

>> MOTION APPROVAL. >> MAYOR PRO TEM. >> SECOND.

>> LET'S VOTE. PLEASE. MOTION CARRIES FIVE ZERO. I BELIEVE THAT TAKES CARE OF THE. THE

[O. ID 26-1516 Consider adoption of an ordinance of the City of Denton ratifying the 2026-2030 tentative Meet and Confer Agreement between the City of Denton and the Denton Police Officers Association, in the form of Exhibit “A”, effective October 1, 2026, ending September 30, 2030 and providing an effective date.]

BUDGET ITEMS AND WE WILL NOW MOVE ON TO AGENDA ITEM. THANK YOU. AGENDA ITEM FOUR WHICH IS ID 26-1516. CONSIDER ADOPTION OF AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF DENTON RATIFYING THE 2026 THROUGH 2030 TENTATIVE MEET AND CONFER AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE CITY OF DENTON AND THE DENTON

POLICE OFFICERS ASSOCIATION IN THE FORM OF EXHIBIT A. >> OKAY.

>> GOOD EVENING, MAYOR AND COUNCIL CHRISTINE TAYLOR, ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER. SO THE CITY OPERATES UNDER A MEET AND CONFER AGREEMENT WITH THE DPA, WHICH SERVES AS THE CITY'S EXCLUSIVE BARGAINING AGENT ON BEHALF OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT. THE MEET AND CONFER IS A VOLUNTARY BARGAINING PROCESS AUTHORIZED UNDER CHAPTER 142. THE PROCESS ENABLES THE CITY AND THE ASSOCIATIONS TO DISCUSS VARIOUS TOPICS SUCH AS SALARIES, BENEFITS, HIRINGS AND DISCIPLINE, AND OTHER CONDITIONS OF EMPLOYMENT GOVERNED BY THE CIVIL SERVICE PROVISIONS. THE CITY HAS MAINTAINED SEVERAL CYCLES OF MEET AND CONFER AGREEMENTS WITH THE POLICE ASSOCIATION, AND THE CURRENT FOUR YEAR AGREEMENT IS SET TO EXPIRE ON SEPTEMBER 30TH.

THIS MONTH, SO THE CITY ENTERED INTO NEGOTIATIONS EARLIER IN JUNE. CITY MANAGEMENT AND DPOA NEGOTIATION TEAMS REVIEWED 18 EXISTING ARTICLES. WE MET ON A BIWEEKLY SCHEDULE BEGINNING JUNE THROUGH THE END OF AUGUST, WHICH ALLOWED A LOT OF DEDICATED TIME TO WORK THROUGH EACH ARTICLE AND PROGRESS TOWARDS THE FINAL AGREEMENT. ON AUGUST 31ST, WE CONCLUDED SUCCESSFUL NEGOTIATIONS AND REACHED A TENTATIVE AGREEMENT FOR A FOUR YEAR TERM THAT WILL BEGIN ON OCTOBER 1ST AND END ON SEPTEMBER 30TH, 2030. THROUGH THE DELIBERATION PROCESS, PARTIES DEVELOPED THE TENTATIVE AGREEMENT. WE IMPLEMENTED AN ADDITIONAL AGREEMENT. SO NOW WE HAVE 19 ARTICLES THAT ADD THING, PROMOTIONS, COMPENSATION, DISCIPLINE, AND OTHER EMPLOYMENT RELATED TOPICS. AT THE CONCLUSION OF OUR TENTATIVE AGREEMENT, DPOA IS REQUIRED TO TAKE IT TO AN ASSOCIATION VOTE. THE VOTING PERIOD WAS OPEN SEPTEMBER 4TH THROUGH 11TH AND REQUIRED A 51% APPROVAL THRESHOLD. A TOTAL OF 172 BALLOTS WERE SUBMITTED, WITH 115 VOTES IN FAVOR OF THE AGREEMENT AND 57 VOTES IN OPPOSITION. SO LANDING ON A 66.9% IN FAVOR. SO STAFF IS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF THE FOUR YEAR AGREEMENT BEGINNING IN OCTOBER 1ST, ENDING ON SEPTEMBER 30TH. AND BEFORE YOU VOTE, JUST WANT TO TAKE A MINUTE TO SAY THANK YOU TO THE NEGOTIATING TEAMS. OUR CITY MANAGEMENT TEAM, INCLUDING MYSELF, INTERIM CITY MANAGER, ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER KENNETH HEDGES, DEPUTY CITY ATTORNEY MICHAEL KOENIG, WHO DOES A FANTASTIC JOB ON THE CIVIL SERVICE PROCESS. FRANK DIXON HELPED US CHIEF POLICE CHIEF TONY SALAS, AND THEN WE HAD SUPPORT FROM AMY CATHOLIC, MATT HAMILTON AND MEGAN GILBERT FROM HR. ON THE DPOA SIDE. THE NEGOTIATIONS WERE LED BY OFFICER JASON HOLLINGSHEAD, AND WE HAD SERGEANT LOGAN MILLER, SERGEANT TOMMY POTTS, OFFICER BRANDI FIELDS AND OFFICER AND DPOY PRESIDENT LEWIS PIZANA. SO THAT TEAM WORKED OVER A LONG, SEVERAL HOURS, SEVERAL MEETINGS TO GET TO THIS AGREEMENT. SO WE'RE PLEASED TO PRESENT IT TO

YOU FOR CONSIDERATION. >> ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF?

COUNCILMEMBER FERRY? >> YEAH. I JUST WANTED TO ECHO LIKE, I REALLY APPRECIATE ALL THE WORK AND TIME THAT'S GONE INTO THIS. AND WITH THAT, I MOVE APPROVAL.

>> ALL RIGHT. MAYOR PRO TEM SECOND. YEAH. I REALLY WANT TO ECHO THOSE SENTIMENTS. THAT'S THEY YOU KNOW THEY WERE GOOD NEGOTIATIONS. THE TIMING WAS CHALLENGING. BUT AND I KNOW EVERYBODY WORKED HARD TO COME TO CONSENSUS. AND THAT'S WHAT IT'S ABOUT IS AARON YOUR YOUR INTERESTS AND FINDING SOME COMMON GROUND. SO I REALLY APPRECIATE STAFF'S HARD WORK ON THIS AND ALSO APPRECIATE THE POLICE OFFICERS THAT REPRESENTED THE POLICE OFFICERS ASSOCIATION AND, AND, AND GETTING THIS DONE. SO THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH FOR THAT, THAT YEOMAN'S WORK. ALL RIGHT. WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. LET'S VOTE PLEASE. MOTION

[02:00:07]

CARRIES FIVE ZERO. OKAY. SO THIS IS SORT OF THE THE PROCESS. NOW AGENDA ITEM £0.04 HAS TO WAIT UNTIL AFTER THE PUBLIC HEARING FOR THE ANNEXATION. SO RIGHT NOW WE ARE KIND OF IN A STOPPAGE BECAUSE WE CAN'T START THE PUBLIC HEARINGS UNTIL 630. SO AT THIS TIME, WE WILL WE'LL CALL A BREAK AND RECONVENE AT SIX. WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ELSE WE CAN CONSIDER. CORRECT? I DON'T BELIEVE SO. YEP. ALL RIGHT. SO WE'LL CALL WE'LL CALL FOR A BREAK AND RECONVENE AT 630. SO THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR WS MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL ON SEPTEMBER 22ND, 2026, 6:31 P.M.

WE'VE HAD ALREADY SOME OF OUR AGENDA ITEMS DECIDED, BUT WE HAD TO WAIT FOR THE PUBLIC

[A. ID 26-1459 Hold a public hearing regarding a moratorium on the acceptance, processing, and approval of applications for the development of data centers.]

HEARING ITEMS TO BEGIN AT 630. SO THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOING. SO WE'LL START WITH PUBLIC HEARING AGENDA ITEM THREE A, WHICH IS ID 26-1459. AND I'M GOING TO GO AHEAD AND OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. SO I DO HAVE SOME BLUE CARDS UP HERE OF PEOPLE WANTING TO SPEAK DURING THIS PUBLIC HEARING, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO TURN ONE IN NOW. SO IF YOU IF YOU WANT TO SPEAK, WE'LL GIVE YOU AN OPPORTUNITY TO COME DOWN. BUT IF YOU WOULD, BEFORE YOU LEAVE, FILL OUT A BLUE CARD JUST SO WE CAN HAVE A RECORD OF YOUR OF YOUR VISIT AND YOUR TALK. GO AHEAD.

>> ALL RIGHT. GOOD EVENING, MAYOR AND CITY COUNCIL. MY NAME IS CHARLIE ROSENDAHL. I'M THE DIRECTOR OF DEVELOPMENT SERVICES. THE ITEM BEFORE YOU TODAY IS THE FIRST PUBLIC HEARING REGARDING A MORATORIUM ON DATA CENTERS. SO FOR BACKGROUND, THE CITY COUNCIL ON MAY 14TH, MAYOR PRO TEM STEPHENS SUBMITTED A TWO MINUTE PITCH. THE CITY COUNCIL APPROVED MOVING FORWARD ON JUNE 2ND. ON JUNE 26TH, AN ISR WAS ISSUED GIVING SOME BACKGROUND ON DATA CENTERS AND THE POSSIBLE MORATORIUM. AUGUST 4TH, CITY COUNCIL DIRECTED STAFF TO MOVE FORWARD, WITH TWO THINGS ONE BEING AN AMENDMENT TO THE DEVELOPMENT CODE AND THE OTHER TO START THE PROCESS OF IMPLEMENTING A MORATORIUM. AND ON AUGUST 18TH, WE APPROVED A RESOLUTION SETTING THE THE PUBLIC HEARING DATES, THE FIRST ONE OF WHICH IS THE ITEM BEFORE YOU TODAY. JUST SOME ADDITIONAL BACKGROUND ON WHAT A DATA CENTER IS. IT'S A DEDICATED FACILITY HOUSING, COMPUTER EQUIPMENT, STORAGE ARRAYS, AND NETWORKING INFRASTRUCTURE. YOU CAN SEE HERE SOME OF THE EQUIPMENT THAT MIGHT BE IN A DATA CENTER, IT EQUIPMENT, COOLING CONTROLS, POWER SYSTEMS, AND TYPICALLY THEY'LL HAVE SOME TYPE OF PHYSICAL SECURITY. AND THEN SOME OF THE TYPES OF DATA CENTERS THERE ARE. SO THERE'S ENTERPRISE DATA CENTERS THAT ARE MORE IN-HOUSE TYPE DATA CENTERS, CO-LOCATION, WHICH IS A GROUPING OF THOSE TYPES OF ENTERPRISE DATA CENTERS, HYPERSCALE, WHICH ARE THE LARGER SCALE DATA CENTERS, AND THEN SOME EDGE DATA CENTERS, WHICH ARE MORE LOCALIZED. SO DATA CENTERS AND DENTON, TODAY WE HAVE TWO HYPERSCALE DATA CENTERS THAT HAVE BEEN APPROVED. CORE SCIENTIFIC IS A WAREHOUSE TYPE DATA CENTER FOR HIGH PROCESSING, COMPUTING AND AI, WITH UP TO 300 AND 391MW OF ELECTRIC CAPACITY. IT USES A CLOSED LOOP SYSTEM AND ITS LEASE ON 79 ACRES OF CITY OWNED PROPERTY, AND THERE'S NEARING COMPLETION OF THAT PROJECT. AND THE OTHER ONE IS A WAHA OR CUMULUS AI DATA CENTER. IT'S A 20 MEGAWATT FACILITY. IT'S AN AIR COOLED SYSTEM. AND THAT ONE IS ALSO LEASED ON FOUR ACRES OF CITY OWNED PROPERTY. AND THE WAHA DATA CENTER HAS NOT STARTED CONSTRUCTION YET. SO THE PROCESS FOR THE ELECTRIC CONNECTIONS, THEY REQUIRE AN INTERCONNECTION STUDY. AND THOSE OVER 75MW REQUIRE ERCOT APPROVAL, WHICH THE GOVERNOR DOES HAVE A DIRECTIVE ON RIGHT NOW REGARDING ERCOT AND THE NEED TO ANALYZE ANYTHING ABOVE 75MW IN MORE DETAIL, LESS THAN 75MW. IT'S THE THE TRANSMISSION SERVICE PROVIDER, WHICH CAN BE CITY OF DENTON. IT CAN ALSO BE ENCORE, BRAZOS OR A NUMBER OF OTHER PROVIDERS. SO WE HAVE TWO TYPES OF SERVICE. WE CAN BE IN A SINGLE OR MULTI CERTIFIED AREA AND IN SINGLE SERVICE DME WOULD BE REQUIRED TO SERVE. AND THEN IN OTHER AREAS THEY CAN CHOOSE ANOTHER SERVICE PROVIDER.

THE DEVELOPER PAYS THE FULL COST TO INTERCONNECT TO THESE SYSTEMS. SOME OF THE RECENT STUDIES DONE BY OUR, OUR EMPLOYEES OVER DENTON MUNICIPAL ELECTRIC SHOW THAT WE'RE REACHING NEARING OUR LIMITS FOR ELECTRIC CAPACITY. WE HAVE ABOUT 75MW OF AVAILABLE CAPACITY. AND THESE NEW HIGH DEMAND PROJECTS HAVE INCREASED THAT PRESSURE. WE'VE SUBMITTED

[02:05:03]

IMPROVEMENT PROJECTS TO ERCOT FOR REVIEW, AND IF APPROVED, WE WOULD RECOVER PROJECT COSTS FOR UPGRADING THESE SYSTEMS AND THEN WOULD PROVIDE FOR ADDITIONAL CAPACITY IN THE FUTURE ON THE WATER IMPACT. SO CURRENTLY THEY WOULD BE REQUIRED TO SUBMIT THEIR DEMAND SCHEDULES AND WATER DISTRIBUTION MODELING. THEY WOULD ALSO PAY FOR THE FULL COST OF EXTENDING INFRASTRUCTURE TO THEIR SITES AND PAY WASTEWATER IMPACT FEES.

HERE ARE A FEW OF THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF. COOLING SYSTEMS THAT A DATA CENTER COULD USE, SO THERE'S DIRECT AND INDIRECT EVAPORATIVE COOLING, WHICH ARE THE MORE HIGH WATER USAGE TYPE FACILITIES. THERE'S ALSO FREE AIR COOLING AND CLOSED LOOP SYSTEMS, WHICH USE LESS. AND TO GIVE A LITTLE CONTEXT ON WHAT THAT MEANS FOR DENTON. SO WE USE ABOUT 7 BILLION GALLONS OF WATER A YEAR. AND OUR TOP TEN CUSTOMERS USE BETWEEN 50 AND 300 GALLONS, 300 MILLION GALLONS ANNUALLY. YOU CAN SEE HERE WHAT THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF COOLING SYSTEMS USE ON AN ANNUAL BASIS AND THE POTENTIAL IMPACT IT HAS TO OUR WATER SYSTEM. SO OUR CURRENT REGULATIONS FOR DATA CENTERS STARTED IN 2021. WE HAD A DIRECTOR DETERMINATION THAT THAT WAS A WAREHOUSE TYPE USE. AND THEN IN SEPTEMBER OF 2022, CITY COUNCIL APPROVED AMENDMENTS TO CREATE A DATA CENTER USE FOR THE CITY OF DENTON. WE HAVE MODULAR AND WAREHOUSE DATA CENTER USES MODULAR, REQUIRED SUP AND THE ZONING DISTRICTS YOU SEE HERE LIGHT INDUSTRIAL, HEAVY INDUSTRIAL AND PUBLIC FACILITIES. AND THEN WAREHOUSE TYPE USES HAVE AN SCP REQUIREMENT AND MIXED USE REGIONAL SUBURBAN CORRIDOR.

HIGHWAY CORRIDOR. AND IT'S PERMITTED BY RIGHT CURRENTLY IN IN GENERAL OFFICE LIGHT INDUSTRIAL HEAVY INDUSTRIAL AND PUBLIC FACILITIES. WE ALSO HAVE ADDITIONAL REGULATIONS ON SETBACK SCREENINGS, LIGHTING, NOISE AND LANDSCAPING. THE CITY COUNCIL DID DIRECT STAFF IN THAT PRIOR WORK SESSION TO BRING CODE AMENDMENTS FORWARD. WE ARE BRINGING THOSE FORWARD TO CITY COUNCIL FOR CONSIDERATION ON OCTOBER 13TH. THOSE CODE AMENDMENTS WILL BE GOING TO PLANNING AND ZONING FOR RECOMMENDATION TOMORROW. REGARDING THE MORATORIUM. SO A MORATORIUM IS A TEMPORARY PAUSE ON ACCEPTING NEW APPLICATIONS OR PROCESSING NEW PERMITS FOR DEVELOPMENTS. IT CANNOT HALT PERMITS THAT ARE ALREADY VESTED UNDER LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE, CHAPTER 245. AND WE HAVE TO SPECIFY THE DEFINED AREA IN WHICH WE ARE IMPLEMENTING A MORATORIUM. YOU CAN SEE HERE TEXAS LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE, CHAPTER 212 SPECIFIES THREE WAYS OR UNDER THREE CIRCUMSTANCES THAT CITIES CAN IMPLEMENT MORATORIUMS. ONE IS A SHORTAGE OF PUBLIC FACILITIES, EITHER WATER, SEWER, DRAINAGE OR STREETS. A NEED FOR OTHER PUBLIC FACILITIES, WHICH IT SPECIFIES AS POLICE OR FIRE, BUT ALSO COULD INCLUDE ELECTRIC UTILITIES OR A NEED TO UPDATE OUR COMMERCIAL REGULATIONS. AND THAT'S SPECIFIC SECTION WOULD NOT APPLY TO HEAVY INDUSTRIAL ZONING. AS FAR AS REQUIREMENTS FOR IMPOSING A MORATORIUM, WE MUST SUBMIT WRITTEN FINDINGS FOR THE NECESSITY THE NECESSITY OF ADOPTING THOSE MORATORIUMS, AND THEN EACH OF THOSE DIFFERENT REASONS WOULD SPECIFY WHAT FINDINGS WE NEED TO ADOPT.

SO YOU CAN SEE HERE THE OUTLINE FOR THE MORATORIUM PROCESS. SO WE HAVE TO HAVE A 30 DAY NOTICE POSTING IN THE PAPER. AND THEN 30 DAY NOTICE TO PUBLIC HEARINGS. AND THEN TWO READINGS OF AN ORDINANCE ADOPTING THE MORATORIUM, WHICH INCLUDE WRITTEN FINDINGS. AND THOSE HAVE TO BE APPROVED BY A SUPERMAJORITY VOTE OF CITY COUNCIL. TODAY, WE'RE HERE WITH THE FIRST PUBLIC HEARING. THE PLAN IS TO HAVE A CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION ON OCTOBER 13TH TO DISCUSS THE FINDINGS AND JUSTIFICATIONS FOR A MORATORIUM, AND THEN WE WOULD BRING BACK A SECOND PUBLIC HEARING ON OCTOBER 27TH AND HAVE A FIRST READING OF THE ORDINANCE FOR THE MORATORIUM, AND THEN COUNCIL'S CONSIDERATION OF THAT ON A SECOND READING ON DECEMBER 1ST. AS A REMINDER, CITY COUNCIL THE INITIAL MORATORIUM WAS IN PLACE FOR 90 DAYS. WE WOULD HAVE THE OPTION, IF NEEDED, TO EXTEND THAT FOR AN ADDITIONAL 90 DAYS, WHICH WOULD PLACE IT IN MAY IF WE WERE TO EXTEND IT FOR WHEN THE MORATORIUM WOULD END AND WE WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO TO EXECUTE ANOTHER MORATORIUM FOR THE SAME USE FOR AT LEAST TWO

YEARS. AND WITH THAT, I WILL TAKE ANY QUESTIONS. >> ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF?

MAYOR PRO TEM. >> ONE CLARIFYING QUESTION. FIRST, OCTOBER 13TH WE'RE GOING

[02:10:01]

TO HAVE THE WORK SESSION. I KNOW I TALKED TO CITY MANAGER ABOUT THIS YESTERDAY, BUT I DON'T REMEMBER THE ANSWER. SO I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY, WHEN WE HAVE THAT WORK SESSION, WE'RE NOT REALLY GIVING DIRECTION. YOU ARE REPORTING TO US, IS THAT CORRECT?

>> YEAH. THE GOAL OF THAT WORK SESSION WOULD BE FOR US TO SAY HERE WOULD BE THE BASIS FOR WHAT WE WOULD BE BRINGING FORWARD IN THAT ORDINANCE ON OCTOBER 27TH. AND IF COUNCIL HAD ANY FEEDBACK OR ADDITIONAL CONCERNS, THE ITEM TONIGHT IS A PUBLIC HEARING. SO WE'LL HEAR THE CONCERNS FROM THE PUBLIC, AND WE CAN INCORPORATE SOME OF THOSE CONCERNS IF COUNCIL

DESIRES, INTO THAT FUTURE ORDINANCE. >> OKAY. BEFORE I GET TO MY NEXT QUESTION, I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR THE PRESENTATION. YOU HAVE HANDLED THIS TOPIC VERY WELL. I THINK ALL THESE PEOPLE ARE HERE JUST TO SEE YOU BECAUSE YOU'RE SUCH A GOOD PRESENTER, BUT YOU JUST DO A PHENOMENAL JOB AT THIS. AND I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR FOR YOUR WORK. I KNOW IT'S NOT EASY. I WOULDN'T WANT TO DO IT. IS IS DME HERE TO ANSWER ANY

QUESTIONS? >> NO, THEY ARE NOT. WE'RE TRYING TO GET SOMEONE TO COME ANSWER QUESTIONS. I DIDN'T REALIZE THERE WASN'T A REPRESENTATIVE HERE, SO I

APOLOGIZE FOR THAT. >> SO I HAVE A QUESTION, MAYOR FOR DME. BUT I CAN ASK IT AGAIN.

I'LL ASK IT NOW AND THEN I CAN ASK IT AGAIN. SURE. AND I'LL I'LL ADD ONE MORE CAVEAT, WHICH IS I'M JUST GRATEFUL FOR STAFF FOR HOW QUICKLY THEY WORK. I THINK I BROUGHT THIS PITCH UP MY FIRST MEETING I WAS ELECTED, AND THE SPEED IN WHICH STAFF HAS MOVED IS JUST INCREDIBLE.

AND, AND THEY DESERVE ALL THE CREDIT IN THE WORLD FOR ALL THAT THEY DO. WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY AND WHAT I WAS HOPING TO GET AN ANSWER FROM, FROM THEM IS IT'S GOING TO BE A LITTLE LONG WINDED, BUT THERE'S A POINT TO IT AND IT'S FOR THEM. IT'S FOR THE PEOPLE THAT ARE HERE AND IT'S ALSO FOR THE COUNCIL. DENTON IS A VERY SMALL TOWN, AND I'M CONSTANTLY REMINDED OF THAT. YOU JUST RUN INTO PEOPLE IN THE MOST RANDOM OF PLACES OR HEAR THE MOST RANDOM OF THINGS, NO MATTER WHERE YOU GO. AND SO I HAVE A FRIEND THAT I HAVE A STANDING DINNER WITH EVERY TUESDAY, AND THEN I GOT THIS JOB. AND SO NOW IT'S MONDAY OR TUESDAY, DEPENDING ON IF I HAVE A MEETING OR NOT. SO WE HAD DINNER LAST NIGHT SOMEWHERE.

THE FOOD WAS GREAT, AND SOMETIMES I GET REALLY DISTRACTED WHEN I'M TALKING TO SOMEONE BECAUSE I GOT BIG EARS. AND SO THEY'RE LIKE A RADAR TO WHAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE SAYING.

AND I WAS JUST ZONING THIS PERSON OUT AND I WAS LISTENING TO THIS BIG TABLE BEHIND ME, AND THERE WERE JUST THESE BUZZWORDS THAT WERE COMING OUT OF THEIR MOUTHS, WORDS LIKE DATA CENTER, WORDS LIKE CORE, SCIENTIFIC WORDS LIKE. WE HAVE A CONFERENCE TO ATTEND ABOUT HOW YOU TALK TO MUNICIPALITIES, ABOUT DATA CENTERS. WORDS LIKE, WE'RE LOOKING AT ANOTHER SPOT FOR A DATA CENTER, AND IT'S LIKE THREE QUARTERS OF A MILE AWAY FROM A RESIDENCE. AND THAT, THAT THAT CONVERSATION I OVERHEARD THAT LAST NIGHT. AND MY QUESTION WAS BECAUSE IT'S, I THINK, VERY RELEVANT TO THE PEOPLE THAT ARE HERE TODAY. IS THIS DME IN ANY CONVERSATIONS RIGHT NOW WITH CORE SCIENTIFIC ABOUT AN EXPANSION OR A NEW DATA CENTER OF SOME TYPE IN THE COMMUNITY? HAVE THOSE TALKS HAPPENED AT ALL? AND I KNOW IT'S UNFAIR TO PUT YOU ON THAT

SPOT BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT A DME. >> YEAH, I WOULD SAY WITH THIS PROCESS GOING ON, OUR CONVERSATIONS HAVE BEEN WE'RE GOING THROUGH THE MORATORIUM PROCESS AND, AND WE'RE NOT HAVING ANY DISCUSSIONS WITH FUTURE DATA CENTERS AT THIS POINT.

>> HAS CORE SCIENTIFIC REACHED OUT TO THE CITY OF DENTON ABOUT AN EXPANSION OR MORE LAND, OR

HAVING AN ADDITIONAL DATA CENTER. >> I ANSWER THAT I. I HAVE NOT HEARD FROM THEM. I KNOW I HAD A MEETING WITH THEM A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO ABOUT OUR EXISTING AGREEMENT, BUT I HAVE NOT HEARD FROM THEM SPECIFICALLY. BUT WE WILL GET THAT QUESTION ANSWERED

FOR YOU FROM OUR DME STAFF. >> I THINK THAT'S AN IMPORTANT ANSWER TO KNOW. I THINK THAT'S AN IMPORTANT ANSWER TO KNOW. I THINK I WAS THINKING ABOUT IT LAST NIGHT. I WONDER IF I'D STOOD UP AND INTRODUCED MYSELF AS THE MAYOR PRO TEM WHO ASKED FOR A MORATORIUM IF THEY WOULD

[02:15:04]

HAVE HAD A DIFFERENT CONVERSATION PUBLICLY. AND I THINK IT'S JUST WORTH PUTTING IT OUT THERE, BECAUSE I'M A LITTLE BOTHERED THAT I HEARD THAT IN PUBLIC. I NEVER HEARD

IT HERE. AND THAT'S REALLY DISTURBING TO ME. >> SO, COUNCILMEMBER HOLLAND.

>> THANK YOU. THANKS, CHARLIE. THAT WAS AN EXCELLENT PRESENTATION. YOU MENTIONED ON SLIDE SIX, THE TOP TEN CUSTOMER TOP TEN CUSTOMERS ANNUAL USAGE IS BETWEEN 50 AND 300 MILLION GALLONS A YEAR. CAN YOU GIVE US AN EXAMPLE OF SOME OF THOSE TOP TEN CUSTOMERS, OR IS THAT A IS

THAT A UTILITIES QUESTION? >> YEAH, I DON'T KNOW. OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, I THINK IT

WOULD BE LIKE UNIVERSITIES THAT THAT TYPE OF CUSTOMER. >> OKAY.

>> SO LIKE A UNIVERSITY OF NORTH TEXAS, TEXAS WOMAN'S UNIVERSITY, IT'S KIND OF LARGE, LARGE INDUSTRIAL SITES YOU CAN THINK OF IN TOWN. I WOULD SPECULATE TO, TO GUESS THOSE

ARE THE TYPE OF CUSTOMERS THAT WOULD FALL INTO THAT TOP TEN. >> MANUFACTURING TYPE

FACILITIES LIKELY. >> YEAH. >> PETERBILT FOR EXAMPLE,

PROBABLY. >> OKAY. YEAH. >> OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU

MAYOR. >> ALL RIGHT. COUNCIL MEMBER MOORE.

>> JUST A QUICK QUESTION. CHARLIE, WOULD THIS IF THIS MORATORIUM, TEMPORARY MORATORIUM WAS PASSED, WOULD THIS APPLY TO COUNTY LAND OR JUST CITY LAND?

>> IT COULD GO OUTSIDE THE CITY LIMITS. AND SO IF IT WAS BASED ON DIFFERENT CATEGORIES, IF IT WAS BASED ON WATER USAGE, WE HAVE CERTIFICATES OF CONVENIENCE AND NECESSITY THAT THAT OUR WATER AND WASTEWATER PROVIDERS ARE. IT COULD IF IT'S EXTENDED ON ELECTRICITY, IT COULD BE THE SERVICE AREA OF OUR ELECTRIC UTILITY. SO YES, THOSE BOTH EXTEND OUTSIDE OF

OUR CITY LIMITS. >> SO WOULD THE MORATORIUM APPLY OUT THERE IF IT WAS ATTACHED TO OUR UTILITIES? YES IT WOULD. OKAY. YEAH. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU.

>> SO I HAVE A QUESTION BASED UPON MAYOR PRO TEM COMMENTS NOTWITHSTANDING, YOU KNOW, ANY ANSWER THAT MAY COME FROM ME. BUT I THINK IT IT BRINGS UP A QUESTION BECAUSE WE DO HAVE TWO DATA CENTERS. AND I'LL ASK THIS OF THE CITY ATTORNEY. THE MORATORIUM. DOES THAT APPLY IF THERE IS A CURRENT DATA CENTER THAT WANTS TO EXPAND AND OR IF THEY REQUIRE ADDITIONAL LAND TO FULFILL THE TERMS OF ANY AGREEMENT? SO IN OTHER WORDS, WHAT IS REALLY DEFINED AS A NEW DATA CENTER? I MEAN, IS IT IF IF COMPANY X ALREADY HAS A DATA CENTER AND THEY WANT TO QUOTE UNQUOTE EXPAND, IS THAT PREVENTED PROHIBITED UNDER THIS MORATORIUM OR BECAUSE THEY ALREADY HAVE AN AGREEMENT OR THEY'RE ALREADY EXISTING? AND I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE A QUESTION THAT WE PROBABLY NEED TO HAVE SOME REAL CLEAR DIRECTION ON BEFORE ALL THIS

PROCESS WINDS UP WINDING, WINDING UP. >> YEAH. AND AND YOU WILL GET DIRECTION. WE CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION. IT'LL TAKE PROBABLY ADDITIONAL RESEARCH TO LOOK AT.

IT'S REALLY GOING TO BE FACT SPECIFIC AS TO WHAT THEIR PROJECT IS, WHAT IT ALL ENCOMPASSES, WHAT THEIR PLAN WAS WHEN THEY SUBMITTED IT. YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT ALL THOSE THINGS BECAUSE, YEAH, A MORATORIUM BEING PASSED DOES NOT NECESSARILY STOP AN

EXISTING PROJECT FROM BEING BUILT OUT. >> RIGHT. SO THE EXISTING PROJECT. BUT IF THEY WANTED TO EXPAND BEYOND THE ORIGINAL FOOTPRINT OR THE ORIGINAL POWER CONSUMPTION OR SPECS OF THE ORIGINAL DESIGN, WOULD THAT BE CONSIDERED THEN A NEW DATA

CENTER FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS MORATORIUM. >> POTENTIALLY, YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT EACH PROJECT SPECIFICALLY AND THEN FIGURE OUT WHAT EXACTLY THE ORIGINAL PLAN WAS. AND WE DON'T HAVE THAT KIND OF DETAIL TONIGHT, BUT WE CAN LOOK INTO THAT. BUT YEAH, THERE'S A POTENTIAL SCENARIO WHERE THEY BUILT OUT TO WHAT THEY WERE GOING TO

BUILD. ANYTHING BEYOND THAT WOULD BE NEW. >> OKAY. ALL RIGHT. OKAY. SO IT WOULD BE MORE BASED ON ANY TYPE OF CONTRACTUAL ARRANGEMENT FOR CAPACITY. LIKE IF YOU SAID, IF THE CONTRACT SAYS 500MW AND YOU CAN ONLY GET 300 ON THE SITE THAT YOU THOUGHT YOU COULD GET 500 AND YOU WANTED TO MOVE TO ANOTHER SITE TO GET YOUR FULL. I MEAN, I KNOW YOU DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO ANSWER, BUT THOSE ARE THE QUESTIONS WE NEED TO HAVE ANSWERS TO. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. I JUST WANTED TO MAKE THAT COMMENT OR THOSE QUESTIONS AVAILABLE. AND THIS DISCUSSION FOR NOT ONLY THE COMMUNITY HERE, BUT THE COMMUNITY AT LARGE, BECAUSE THIS IS IT'S GOING TO BE IMPORTANT THAT WE ARE ABLE TO KNOW THOSE PARTICULAR DETAILS AND WHO THIS APPLIES TO AND WHO DOESN'T, AND WHO CAN STILL DO SOMETHING HERE AND WHO CAN'T. SO I APPRECIATE THAT.

ALL RIGHT, COUNCILMEMBER FERRY. >> THANK YOU, MR. MAYOR. QUICK QUESTION. CAN YOU REMIND ME WHAT. WHICH ZONING AREA THE WAREHOUSE AND THE MODULAR SITES ARE ON?

[02:20:08]

>> SO THAT WOULD BE IN PUBLIC FACILITY ZONING. I BELIEVE. I THINK IT'S IN PUBLIC FACILITY.

>> OKAY. SO THEY'RE BOTH. YEAH. OKAY. AND THEN KIND OF TO THAT QUESTION, WHEN WE REVIEWED IT IN DRC, DIDN'T DEVELOPMENT CODE REVIEW COMMITTEE WITH PEF SPECIFICALLY MODULAR, ALREADY HAD AN SUP ATTACHED TO IT. AND I GUESS I'M WONDERING THEN TO YOUR QUESTION, LIKE IN THE SUP, IF YOU'RE GOING TO EXPAND BEYOND YOUR ORIGINAL AGREEMENT WITH THE CITY, WOULD THAT THEN CALL THEM TO HAVE TO COME BACK BEFORE EITHER PNC OR THE CITY COUNCIL, OR DO THEY HAVE THE

RIGHT TO EXPAND WITHOUT RENEGOTIATING? >> WE MIGHT HAVE TO LOOK AT IT

MORE SPECIFICALLY AND COME BACK. >> I DIDN'T KNOW IF THAT WAS CODIFIED OR NOT. THAT'S WHAT I

WAS JUST TRYING TO MAKE SURE. OKAY, YEAH. >> IF YOU'RE MOVING ON TO PROPERTY THAT'S NOT ZONED PROPERLY, THEN THAT THAT IS A DIFFERENT THING. SURE. AND THAT

WOULD REQUIRE A ZONING APPROVAL. >> OKAY. OKAY. THANKS. APPRECIATE THAT.

>> NO PROBLEM. >> ALL RIGHT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF SEEING NONE.

THANK YOU SO MUCH. APPRECIATE IT. ALL RIGHT. WE'VE GOT SOME CARDS. AND WHAT I'LL DO IS I'LL CALL THE CARDS OUT. AND IF WHEN I CALL YOUR NAME, IF YOU COULD COME DOWN, STATE YOUR NAME. YOU HAVE FOUR MINUTES TO SPEAK. AND THEN WHEN WE GET THROUGH THE CARDS, ANYONE WISHING TO SPEAK AT THE PUBLIC HEARING, YOU'RE FREE TO COME DOWN, SHARE YOUR COMMENTS, AND THEN JUST ASK THAT ON YOUR WAY OUT, YOU FILL OUT A BLUE CARD AND LEAVE IT WITH WITH STAFF HERE. OKAY. THE FIRST SPEAKER IS, IS IT? MILES? BEDLAM SMILES HERE. YES. STATE YOUR NAME AND YOUR TIME WILL

BEGIN. >> MY NAME IS MILES BEDLAM. I LIVE OFF OF LOOP 288 IN DENTON.

MY ZIP CODE IS 76209. I SUPPORT A MORATORIUM ON DATA CENTERS AT THE VERY LEAST, AND FRANKLY, A BAN ON DATA CENTERS. SO THAT'S NOT THE CONVERSATION WE'RE HAVING. I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THE STRESS ON OUR ENERGY GRID, THAT THE CURRENT AI DATA CENTERS BEING BUILT WILL CAUSE, YET ALONE, EVEN MORE. THESE DATA CENTERS ARE PROJECTED TO NEED MORE POWER THAN IT TAKES TO POWER EVERY SINGLE DENTON HOME. CURRENTLY. THIS DEVELOPMENT WILL CERTAINLY INCREASE OUR ENERGY BILLS EXTENSIVELY GIVEN THE BASIC LAWS OF SUPPLY AND DEMAND, ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING THAT DENTON IS A RAPIDLY GROWING CITY, I FAIL TO SEE HOW OUR ENERGY GRID WILL BE ABLE TO HANDLE SUCH HIGH ENERGY USAGE. I'M ALSO CONCERNED ABOUT THIS EXCESSIVE ENERGY USAGE, HOW IT WILL AFFECT OUR CLIMATE, HOW AND THEN HOW THESE DATA CENTERS WILL POLLUTE OUR WATERSHED AND EVEN AIR. I'M CONCERNED THAT THE ENERGY DEMAND DOUBLING IN DENTON WILL RESULT IN SEEKING OUT NEW WAYS TO PROVIDE POWER TO THE GRID. MOST CONCERNING FOSSIL FUELS. A THIRD AND FOURTH. ANY MORE THAN THAT. SORRY, I JUST WROTE THIS. OKAY, A THIRD DATA CENTER, A FOURTH DATA CENTER, EXPANDING OUR DATA CENTERS WHEN OUR CURRENT ENERGY GRID CAN'T EVEN KEEP UP WITH THE ONES THAT WE ALLOWED IN, I FEAR, WOULD TOTALLY DESTABILIZE OUR POWER GRID. IT'S NOT EVEN REALISTIC. AT THE VERY LEAST, WE NEED A MORATORIUM. AND HONESTLY, WE NEED TO START A

CONVERSATION ABOUT BANNING THEM ALL TOGETHER. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE Y'ALL. SHOW OF ENTHUSIASM AND PASSION. OUR RULES STATE THAT THOSE TYPE OF DEMONSTRATIONS, WE'D LIKE TO REFRAIN FROM THOSE SIMPLY BECAUSE IT HELPS US PROCEED THROUGH THE MEETING MORE ORDERLY AND GET PEOPLE UP AND GET THEM OUT, BECAUSE WE'VE GOT PROBABLY A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT WANT TO SPEAK. SO I'M NOT TRYING TO QUELL YOU. I'M JUST TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT WE FOLLOW THE RULES SO THAT WE CAN HAVE AN ORDERLY PROCESS TO THIS AGENDA ITEM. SO ANY YOUR COOPERATION, THIS WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED. AND I DON'T KNOW IF Y'ALL NOTICED, BUT I THOUGHT I WAS LOSING MY MIND BECAUSE I THOUGHT THE LIGHTS DIMMED ON ME. I THOUGHT, OH, SOMETHING'S GOING ON. BUT APPARENTLY THEY DID. OKAY. ALL RIGHT, ALL RIGHT. GOOD. I'M NOT, I'M NOT HAVING A PROBLEM. EMMA ROBERTS, IF YOU'LL COME DOWN AND STATE YOUR NAME, YOUR TIME

WILL BEGIN. >> HI, MY NAME IS EMMA ROBERTS. MY ZIP CODE IS 7621. OH, SORRY, I LIVE OFF OF WEST OAK. ANYWAY, I THINK I FILLED OUT THE BLUE CARD WRONG BECAUSE I WAS NERVOUS AND IT WAS NOT PLANNING ON SPEAKING WHENEVER I CAME UP HERE. I'M ACTUALLY A AGAINST

[02:25:06]

DATA CENTERS, SO I DON'T KNOW IF I INDICATED THAT ON THE CARD. OKAY. BUT AS AS A AS I WAS DRIVING DOWN HERE, I WAS THINKING, AND I REALIZED THAT AS A LONG TERM DENTON RESIDENT AND AS SOMEONE WHO HAS HAD DENTON CLOSE TO MY HEART AND MY MIND MY ENTIRE LIFE, IT WOULD BE REMISS OF ME TO NOT COME AND AND SPEAK MY MIND. FRANKLY, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ENOUGH RESEARCH ON DATA CENTERS, NOT ON THE POWER USAGE, THE WATER USAGE, HOW IT AFFECTS THE ENVIRONMENT AND THE PEOPLE. I MEAN, WE'RE HAVING STUDIES ABOUT THE MICROPLASTICS THAT EVERYONE THOUGHT WOULD BE FILTERED OUT 20 YEARS AGO. WHAT IS THIS DATA CENTER BOOM GOING TO CAUSE IN THE NEXT 40, 50 YEARS? WHAT ARE WE NOT SEEING NOW? AND SO I LOVE DENTON, AND I JUST HAD TO COME DOWN HERE AND SPEAK MY MIND THAT I DON'T THINK THIS WOULD BE A GOOD MOVE FOR THE DENTON RESIDENTS, ESPECIALLY WHEN IN THE PAST FEW YEARS, WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO INCREASE TOURISM, ESPECIALLY DURING HALLOWEEN. I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU, BUT I WOULDN'T GO TO A PLACE THAT HAS DATA CENTERS. NOT FOR THE WATER, NOT FOR THE POWER USAGE THAT THEY'RE CHARGING THE COMPANIES THAT ARE USING IT FOR LIKE RESTAURANTS OR. WELL, SPECIALTY STORES THAT WE SPECIALIZE HERE ON DAYTON SQUARE, ESPECIALLY. BUT, BUT YEAH, AND THEN YEARS AGO, WE WERE ONE OF THE TOP GREEN PLACES IN NORTH TEXAS. AND NOW ALL OF OUR TREES ARE GONE. ALL WE SEE ARE BUILDINGS. AND SO WITH ADDED DATA CENTERS, LIKE 3 OR 4 MORE, HOW HOW MUCH IS GOING TO BE TAKEN FROM THE RESIDENTS? SO PLEASE, I URGE YOU TO CONSIDER ALL OF THE ALL OF THE IMPACTS AS YOU GO THROUGH YOUR CHOICES. THANK YOU FOR LISTENING.

>> THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THE NEXT SPEAKER IS SONNY BUSBY. COME DOWN,

STATE YOUR NAME AND YOUR TIME WILL BEGIN. >> HI, I'M SONNY BUSBY. I AM A LONG TERM RESIDENT IN DISTRICT ONE. I'M ALSO A CURRENT CANDIDATE FOR DENTON CITY COUNCIL IN DISTRICT ONE, MAYOR, MAYOR, PRO TEM, AND CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS. I AM HERE TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OF THE MORATORIUM. THANK YOU, MAYOR PRO TEM FOR PRESENTING THIS BACK IN MAY. I THINK IT'S AN IMPORTANT FACTOR. I THINK WE NEED A PAUSE. LARGE SCALE DEVELOPMENTS SUCH AS DATA CENTERS PLACE UNPRECEDENTED STRAINS ON OUR GRID, AS STAFF REPORTS HIGHLIGHT, REGIONAL TRANSMISSION OVERLOADS MEAN DME WILL REQUIRE A 300 MILLION IN TRANSMISSION UPGRADES TO HANDLE THE INCREASED LOADS, AND THESE PROJECTS WON'T BE FINISHED UNTIL AT LEAST 2031, LONG AFTER THE CENTERS HAVE BEEN COMPLETED. FURTHERMORE, WHILE CLOSED LOOP SYSTEMS PROTECT OUR LONG TERM WATER SUPPLY, WE NEED COMPREHENSIVE, TRANSPARENT AND UPDATED RULES IN OUR DENTON DEVELOPMENT CODE AND OR A CHANGE TO OUR CITY CHARTER TO PRIORITIZE CITIZEN VOICES THROUGH FORMAL VOTING PROCEDURES BEFORE NEW INDUSTRIAL SCALE FACILITIES ARRIVE. PASSING THIS MORATORIUM GIVES OUR CITY THE NECESSARY BREATHING ROOM TO ESTABLISH RIGOROUS PERMANENT STANDARDS, ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTIONS, AND POWER WITHOUT BEING RUSHED THROUGH NEW APPLICATIONS. MOST IMPORTANTLY, THIS PAUSE GIVES THE CITIZENS OF DENTON A VOICE. OUR COMMUNITY DESERVES A SAY IN WHAT INDUSTRIAL NEIGHBORHOODS MOVE INTO NEXT DOOR, AND HOW OUR POWER GRID IS IMPACTED. PLEASE APPROVE THE MORATORIUM. PLEASE USE THIS TIME TO CREATE A PERMANENT SOLUTION, EITHER THROUGH A CHANGE IN OUR CODE OR A CHANGE IN OUR CITY CHARTER, OR A COMBINATION OF BOTH. GIVE

DENTON RESIDENTS THE VOICE THAT THEY DESERVE. THANK YOU. >> MICROPHONE. THANK YOU FOR THOSE COMMENTS. THE NEXT SPEAKER IS ANNIE HEFFLEY. IF YOU'LL COME DOWN AND STATE YOUR

NAME, YOUR TIME WILL BEGIN. >> GOOD EVENING COUNCIL. MY NAME IS ANNIE HEFFLEY, AND I AM

[02:30:02]

HERE TODAY TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OF A DATA CENTER MORATORIUM. I AM A LIFELONG DENTON RESIDENT AND AN ORGANIZER WITH DATA CENTER FREE DENTON. I STAND AGAINST DATA CENTERS FOR AN ABUNDANCE OF REASONS. THERE ARE ENVIRONMENTAL CONCERNS, HEALTH CONCERNS, RESOURCE CONCERNS.

AND WHILE I UNDERSTAND THAT THIS COUNCIL HAS MADE SOME INITIAL ATTEMPTS TO REGULATE THESE FACILITIES, WE MUST CONTINUE TO DEMAND BETTER FOR OURSELVES. EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE TOUTED A CLOSED LOOP SYSTEM AS A WAY TO MITIGATE THE ENORMOUS AMOUNTS OF WATER TRADITIONALLY REQUIRED OF THESE FACILITIES. CLOSED LOOP SYSTEMS STILL RELY ON SYNTHETIC COOLANTS LIKE FOREVER CHEMICALS THAT CAN END UP IN OUR WATERSHED. THESE COOLING SYSTEMS CAN BECOME CORRODED WITH BUILDUP AND LEAK. OF COURSE, THIS ISN'T WHAT'S SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN, BUT WHAT ASSURANCES DO WE HAVE? THESE FACILITIES ARE ADVANCING AT RATES FASTER THAN WE CAN KEEP UP WITH. THE PROBLEM IS TWOFOLD. WE CANNOT COMPREHENSIVELY UNDERSTAND ALL OF THE DANGERS AND NEGATIVE IMPACTS AT THIS TIME. AND WHAT WE DO UNDERSTAND DEMONSTRATES IMMENSE DANGER.

DATA CENTERS AND AI UNDER CAPITALISM ARE PLACING US IN A STATE OF SIGNIFICANT PRECARITY.

WHILE BILLIONAIRES ARE PROFITING OFF THESE FACILITIES, WE ARE THE ONES FOOTING THE BILLS, NOT ONLY LITERALLY WITH UTILITY BILLS INCREASING, BUT PHYSICALLY. WE'RE PAYING IN HEALTH RISKS FROM POLLUTANTS BEING EMITTED. WE'RE PAYING AN INCREASING TEMPERATURES DUE TO THE WASTE HEAT BEING PRODUCED AND RESOURCES BECOMING MORE SCARCE. I DO NOT FEEL IT IS AN EXAGGERATION TO SAY THAT WE ARE EFFECTIVELY KILLING OURSELVES WITH THIS TECHNOLOGY UNDER CAPITALISM. IN THIS WAY, DATA CENTERS ARE A DANGER TO US ALL. AND TO THINK THAT DENTON IS ON ITS WAY TO BEING HOME TO ONE OF THE LARGEST AI DATA CENTERS IN NORTH AMERICA IS ALMOST UNFATHOMABLE. I HAVE BEEN EXTREMELY DISAPPOINTED WITH THE DIRECTION OUR CITY HAS DECIDED TO INVEST IN, FROM DATA CENTERS TO AI DRONE FACTORIES TO FLOCK SURVEILLANCE. I HAVE WATCHED THE CITY. I HAVE GROWN UP IN SHIFT FURTHER AND FURTHER FROM WHAT I HAVE KNOWN TO BE DENTON'S VALUES. I UNDERSTAND OUR COMMUNITY TO BE A TOWN OF MUSIC, ARTS AND CREATIVITY, ONE THAT INVESTS IN ITS ARTISTS, STUDENTS, AND FAMILIES, NOT ONE THAT SELLS ITSELF TO THE WHIM OF BIG TECH. I HAVE HEARD PEOPLE SAY THAT THIS IS THE DIRECTION THINGS ARE GOING IN, WHETHER WE LIKE IT OR NOT. I HAVE HEARD PEOPLE SAY THAT THERE IS NOTHING WE CAN DO, SO WE MAY AS WELL JUST GET ON BOARD. I COULD NOT DISAGREE MORE. THIS IS A LOSING MENTALITY. THIS IS A MENTALITY THAT ONLY SERVES TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR THE PEOPLE IN POWER TO CONTINUE TO DISREGARD OUR SAFETY AND WELL-BEING FOR THE SAKE OF PROFIT. WE MUST REFUSE TO ACCEPT THIS. IT IS OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO PUT UP A FIGHT. THIS CITY HAS A HISTORY OF PUTTING UP A FIGHT. WHILE I RECOGNIZE THAT A MORATORIUM IS ONLY A TEMPORARY PAUSE RATHER THAN A PERMANENT SOLUTION, I ALSO RECOGNIZE THAT MOVING FORWARD WITH A MORATORIUM IS DEEPLY SIGNIFICANT. ENACTING A MORATORIUM WOULD MAKE A STATEMENT INDICATING THAT OUR COMMUNITY IS OPPOSED TO THESE DATA CENTERS, THOUGH THE PAUSE WOULD ONLY BE UP TO SIX MONTHS IN AN OFFICIAL CAPACITY, IT COULD ACT AS A DETERRENT TO ADDITIONAL FACILITIES FOR MUCH LONGER. ENACTING A MORATORIUM WOULD ALIGN YOUR ACTIONS AS A COUNCIL WITH OUR COMMUNITY'S WANTS, WHICH IS HOW REPRESENTATION MUST FUNCTION. LET THIS MORATORIUM SERVE AS A REMINDER THAT OUR COMMUNITY DOES NOT WANT DATA CENTERS, A REMINDER THAT YOU CONTINUE TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT AND ALL OF YOUR DECISION MAKING GOING FORWARD. WHEN WE HOSTED OUR DATA CENTER TEACH IN BACK IN JULY, OUR COMMUNITY SHOWED UP. IT WAS STANDING ROOM ONLY SO MANY PEOPLE THAT WE NEEDED TO RELOCATE SOME ATTENDEES TO AN OVERFLOW SPACE. THESE FACILITIES ARE SOMETHING OUR COMMUNITY CARES ABOUT AND STANDS AGAINST. I AM CONFIDENT THAT OUR COMMUNITY WILL CONTINUE TO SHOW UP. THIS IS THE DENTON THAT I KNOW WE MUST CONTINUE TO DEMAND BETTER FOR OURSELVES AND FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS. WE HAVE TO WORK TO

BUILD THE WORLD WE WANT. LET US START WITH A MORATORIUM. >> THANK YOU, THANK YOU. THE NEXT SPEAKER IS, AND I JUST WANT TO SAY THANK YOU ALL FOR YOU KNOW, I KNOW THAT YOU'RE PROBABLY HAVING TO SIT ON YOUR HANDS. I REALLY DO APPRECIATE YOUR. I JUST WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THAT. I DO APPRECIATE THAT FROM FROM THE DAIS, RACHEL WEAVER, IF YOU'LL COME DOWN AND STATE YOUR NAME, YOUR TIME WILL BEGIN.

>> THANK YOU. I'M RACHEL WEAVER. I'VE LIVED IN DENTON FOR 20 YEARS. I ADOPTED MY PETS FROM THE SHELTER. I VOLUNTEER FOR THIS CITY. I VOLUNTEER AND WORK FOR NUMEROUS NONPROFITS. AND THANK YOU FOR LETTING ME SPEAK TODAY. I'M HERE TO STAND WITH MY FRIENDS AND NEIGHBORS AND ASK THAT THE CITY OF DENTON APPROVE A 90 DAY MORATORIUM ON DATA CENTERS IN DENTON, WITH THE EXPECTATION OF EXTENDING THE MORATORIUM ANOTHER 90 DAYS IN ORDER TO PAUSE NEW APPROVALS FOR A TOTAL OF SIX MONTHS, GIVING CITY COUNCIL PLANNING AND ZONING, CITY STAFF AND OUR COMMUNITY AT LARGE TIME TO REVIEW IMPACT STUDIES AND DEVELOP LONG TERM PROTECTIONS.

SORRY. I'M NERVOUS. >> ALL RIGHT. YOU'RE DOING GREAT.

>> FIRST, LET'S TAKE US BACK TO 2021. DENTON IS HIT BY WINTER STORM URI AND SIGNS A DEAL WITH CORE SCIENTIFIC FOR THEM TO BUILD A CRYPTO MINING FACILITY WITHIN THE CITY, LESSENING THE BURDEN OF THE DEBT ACCRUED DUE TO THE HIGH COST OF ENERGY DURING THE STORM. THE CORE

[02:35:03]

SCIENTIFIC AGREEMENT WAS TO DEVELOP A 300 MEGAWATT BLOCKCHAIN DATA CENTER IN DENTON. 300MW IS ABOUT THE SAME AS WHAT THE ENTIRE CITY OF DENTON WAS USING IN 2022. CORE SCIENTIFIC CRYPTO MINING WENT BANKRUPT AFTER OPERATING ONLY A FEW MONTHS AND DOUBLING OUR CITY'S ENERGY FOOTPRINT. NOW EMERGING FROM BANKRUPTCY, THE COMPANY HAS CONVINCED THE CITY TO SUPPORT ITS EVEN LARGER AI SUPERCOMPUTER. WHEN COMPLETED, DENTON'S CORE SCIENTIFIC $6 BILLION HYPERSCALE DATA CENTER EXPANSION WILL CONTRACT 391MW OF POWER. THE CUMULUS AI FACILITY WILL CONTRACT ANOTHER 20MW THROUGH THE CITY, AND A COMBINED TOTAL OF 411MW WILL BE DRAWN FROM THE GRID BY THESE DEVELOPMENTS THAT TAKE OVER 79 ACRES OF DENTON'S HABITABLE LAND. NOW, IN 2026, DENTON HAS ALREADY APPROVED UTILITY RATE INCREASES OVER THE NEXT FOUR FISCAL YEARS. GROWTH WAS ONE OF THE REASONS GIVEN FOR PROPOSED UTILITY RATE INCREASES, AS WAS PROJECTED POWER CONSUMPTION FROM DATA CENTERS. AT THE SAME TIME, DME REVENUE IS DOWN, AND THE BIG DRIVER IS THAT PROJECTED REVENUE FROM DATA CENTERS IS ALSO DOWN. DUE TO THE LACK OF TRANSPARENCY FROM THESE COMPANIES. WE DON'T KNOW THE FULL IMPACT AT A TIME WHEN WE ARE ALREADY IN A STATE OF RESOURCE SCARCITY LOCALLY, WE KNOW THAT IT. DENTON MORATORIUM WILL NOT STOP THESE TWO PREVIOUSLY APPROVED DATA CENTERS WITH THE MORATORIUMS WILL DO IS THAT THEY'LL SLOW THE PROCESS DOWN FOR A FEW MONTHS AND SHOW THAT THOUSANDS OF TEXANS ARE CALLING ON LOCAL AND STATE GOVERNMENTS TO PROTECT US FROM THIS ONSLAUGHT OF DATA CENTERS. OUR CONCERN IS VALID. WE CAN REQUEST IMPACT AND USAGE REPORTS AND WORK TOWARDS ECOSYSTEM MITIGATION EFFORTS AND RENEWABLE ENERGY INFRASTRUCTURE. WE ARE NOT ALONE. RESIDENTS AND CITIES HAVE BEEN EFFECTIVE IN ORGANIZING TO RESIST THESE DEVELOPMENTS. IN JUNE 2026, OUR NEIGHBORS LEWISVILLE CITY COUNCIL VOTED UNANIMOUSLY TO APPROVE A LANDMARK ORDINANCE REQUIRING DATA CENTERS TO OBTAIN A SPECIAL USE PERMIT BEFORE LOCATING IN THE CITY, GIVING RESIDENTS A FORMAL VOICE AND CITY OFFICIALS THE TOOLS TO PROTECT LOUISVILLE'S WATER SUPPLY, POWER GRID AND NEIGHBORHOODS. YOUR COMMUNITY IS HERE. WE WANT TO PARTICIPATE. I URGE YOU TO PASS THE MORATORIUM WITH AN INTENTION TO EXTEND, AND I URGE COUNCIL TO WORK WITH STAFF PLANNING AND ZONING AND DENTON MUNICIPAL ELECTRIC TO DEVELOP A SUSTAINABLE AND STRATEGIC PROCESS TO PROTECT OUR COMMUNITY AGAINST HARMFUL DEVELOPMENTS AND SUPPORT OUR TRANSITION TO MORE RENEWABLE ENERGY, MORE POLLUTION MITIGATION AND MORE GREEN SPACE PROTECTIONS. THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. THE LAST CARD WE HAVE FOR NOW IS, OH YEAH, THESE ARE FOR THE BUDGET IS RILEY QUINN. IS RILEY HERE? YES. YOU STATE YOUR NAME. YOUR TIME WILL BEGIN.

>> SOME BIG STEPS. EXCUSE MY LANGUAGE. BUT MY NAME IS RILEY QUINN, AND I'M HERE TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OF STRICT REGULATIONS ON THE DATE ON THE CURRENT DATA CENTERS AND DEVELOPMENT, AS WELL AS A MORATORIUM ON FUTURE DATA CENTERS. DATA CENTERS AROUND THE COUNTRY HAVE LED TO THE PRICES OF UTILITIES RISING GREATLY IN THE LOCALES, WHICH THEY ARE LOCATED. FURTHER, IN DENTON, OUR UTILITY RATES HAVE ALREADY BEEN INCREASING AND ARE PROJECTED TO CONTINUE INCREASING. DENTON RECORD CHRONICLE REPORTED THAT THESE DATA CENTERS ARE GOING TO CONTRIBUTE TO THIS INCREASE, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE'S SOME DISCUSSION OVER WHETHER OR NOT THAT WILL BE THE CASE. BUT I THINK DUE TO US NOT HAVING A FIRM ANSWER ON HOW THIS WILL AFFECT OUR ALREADY RISING PRICES IS ONE REASON WHY WE NEED TO PUMP THE BRAKES ON AND PUT MORE REGULATIONS ON DATA CENTERS. ADDITIONALLY, I WANT TO SAY THAT THE CORE SCIENTIFIC DATA CENTER WILL ALONE USE MORE ALMOST 400MW, WHICH IS ENOUGH TO POWER 8280 2000 HOMES. MIND YOU DIDN'T CURRENTLY ONLY HAS 57,000 HOMES. SO JUST ONE OF THESE DATA CENTERS IS GOING TO GREATLY EXPAND THE MEGAWATT USAGE IN OUR CITY. TEXAS ALREADY HAS AN EXTREMELY FRAUGHT POWER GRID, AND THE 2021 POWER OUTAGE, AN ESTIMATED 246 PEOPLE LOST THEIR LIFE, ACCORDING TO ONE ARTICLE THAT I FOUND. I FEAR THAT OUR DATA CENTERS WILL FURTHER STRAIN OUR GRID, AND THAT WILL POTENTIALLY LEAD TO A GREATER LOSS OF LIFE THE NEXT TIME OUR POWER GRID INEVITABLY FAILS US. FURTHERMORE, DATA CENTERS RELEASED THE HEAT THEY GENERATE INTO THE SURROUNDING ENVIRONMENT, CREATING A HEAT ISLAND AND THE IMMEDIATE AREA SURROUNDING THEM. THIS CAN CAUSE THE SURFACE TEMPERATURE TO RISE BY AS MUCH AS 16°F, AS I'M SURE MOST OF US ARE AWARE, THOUGH UNFORTUNATELY, SOME OF OUR COUNCIL MEMBERS WILL NEGLECT TO LISTEN TO LISTEN TO THE EXPERTS ON THIS. CLIMATE CHANGE IS HAPPENING RAPIDLY, ACCORDING TO THE. ACCORDING TO THE UNITED NATIONS ENVIRONMENTAL PROGRAM, WITHIN THE NEXT FEW YEARS, GLOBAL TEMPERATURES ARE GOING TO RISE PAST THE 1.5 DEGREE THRESHOLD.

THE CLIMATE CATASTROPHE IS GOING TO AFFECT THE MOST VULNERABLE MEMBERS OF OUR GLOBAL SOCIETY, PARTICULARLY THOSE IN THE GLOBAL SOUTH. FIRST, WE MUST DO EVERYTHING WE

[02:40:01]

CAN TO LESSEN THE INEVITABLE DAMAGE. AND ONE WAY WE CAN DO THIS IS TO RESTRICT DATA CENTERS TO THE BEST OF OUR ABILITIES. FINALLY, THE SENTIMENT OF BEING AGAINST DATA CENTERS IS ONE WHICH CLEARLY UNITES PEOPLE IN OUR CITY, STATE AND COUNTRY ACROSS POLITICAL LINES. ESSENTIALLY, THE ONLY SOCIAL GROUP WHO ARE PRO DATA CENTERS IS THE BILLIONAIRE CLASS, WHICH PROFITS OFF OF DATA CENTERS. IF YOU GO TO NEARLY ANY PERSON ON THE STREET AND ASK ANY WORKING CLASS PERSON THEIR OPINIONS ON DATA CENTERS, 99 TIMES OUT OF 100, THEIR VIEWS ARE GOING TO BE OVERWHELMINGLY NEGATIVE BECAUSE WE ALL RECOGNIZE THIS IS SOMETHING WHICH IS GOING TO PUT STRESS ON OUR GRID, MAKE OUR UTILITY PRICES RISE, DAMAGE THE CLIMATE, AND WILL CAUSE MUCH MORE HARM TO ALL OF US. THIS IS WHY I CALL ON OUR CITY COUNCIL TO DO THE CORRECT THING, TO DEFY THE WISHES OF THE BILLIONAIRES WHO DON'T EVEN LIVE IN OUR CITY, AND TO ACT ACCORDING TO THE WISHES OF THEIR CONSTITUENTS AND PASS

STRICT REGULATIONS AND A MORATORIUM ON DATA CENTERS. >> THANK YOU. THANK YOU. SO SO THAT'S YEAH, THAT'S SO THAT'S THE END OF THE BLUE CARDS. AND WE'RE GOING TO ALLOW THE PUBLIC TO SPEAK. BUT I BELIEVE REPRESENTATIVE FROM DME IS HERE. SO I THOUGHT THIS WOULD BE A GOOD TIME THAT HE COULD COME AND AND INTRODUCE HIMSELF. AND THEN MAYOR PRO TEM, YOU CAN SORT OF REPEAT THE QUESTION THAT THAT YOU HAD BEFORE YOU START THE PAPER.

>> GOOD EVENING MAYOR, APOLOGIZE FOR BEING LATE HERE. CHRIS ASSISTANT GENERAL MANAGER OF DME AND MAYOR PRO TEM. I THINK I HEARD YOUR QUESTION. I WAS DRIVING UP HERE, BUT IF YOU

DON'T MIND REPEAT IT, I THINK I HAVE AN ANSWER FOR YOU. >> I HAD A BEAUTIFUL SOLILOQUY.

I WAS TO KEEP IT SHORT. I WAS AT AT DINNER LAST NIGHT AND A BUNCH OF REALLY TALKATIVE PEOPLE WERE BEHIND ME WHILE I WAS TRYING TO ENJOY MY FOOD, AND THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT, OF COURSE, SCIENTIFIC, TALKING ABOUT LOOKING AT DIFFERENT PROPERTIES, MAYBE ONE BEING WITHIN THREE QUARTERS OF A MILE OF A RESIDENCE. THE QUESTION WAS, HAS CORE SCIENTIFIC APPROACHED DME ABOUT WANTING TO EITHER EXPAND THE DATA CENTER OR HAVE A SECOND DATA CENTER IN

THE COMMUNITY? >> WELL, TWO PART QUESTION THERE. THE SECOND DATA CENTER HAVE NOT HEARD THAT. SO IN MY INTERACTIONS WITH CORE SCIENTIFIC, WE'RE GOVERNED BY A PPA. THEY HAVE APPROACHED US TO TRY TO LEASE SOME MORE, SEE IF THE CITY WAS AMENABLE TO LEASING SOME MORE LAND THAT'S JUST SOUTH OF THEIR FACILITY. THEY DID NOT TELL US WHAT IT'S FOR. BUT WHAT I DO KNOW IS IN THE PPA, THEY'RE LIMITED BY THEIR THEIR MEGAWATT CONSUMPTION. THEY HAVE NOT GOT THERE. AND THOSE LIMITS ARE CONTROLLED BY ERCOT. THEY HAVE NOT REQUESTED ANY ADDITIONAL POWER BE BEYOND WHAT'S IN THE PPA.

>> BUT THEY HAVE APPROACHED ME ABOUT LEASING MORE LAND. >> CORRECT.

>> ANY IDEA WHEN ARE YOU ABLE TO SHARE THAT? WHEN THEY WANTED. WHEN THE LAST TIME AS Y'ALL

TALKED TO THEM. >> THREE MONTHS, FOUR MONTHS. IT SEEMED TO BE A PRETTY HOT TOPIC. THEY ACTUALLY, DUE TO THEIR CONSTRUCTION EFFORT WITH ALL OF THEIR CONTRACTORS OUT THERE, THEY ACTUALLY HAD TO GO SOUTH OF THE OF THE CITY TRACKS TO A PRIVATE RESIDENCE AND RENT SOME OR LEASE SOME LAND DOWN THERE JUST TO PARK THEIR CONTRACTORS SO THAT THEY KNOW ABOUT THE, THE LAND SWAP WE DID WITH THE TRANSFER STATION. AND THEY SAID, HEY, IF THAT TRACK EVER CAME AVAILABLE IN THE CITY, WAS INTERESTED IN LEASING IT TO US, WE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THOSE DISCUSSIONS. THAT'S WHERE IT'S ENDED. AT THAT POINT, WHAT THEY WANTED TO DO ON THAT LAND, THEY NEVER SAID EXPAND THEIR FACILITY, WHICH AGAIN WOULD BE CONTROLLED BY ERCOT AT THE LEVEL THEY'RE AT. THEY NEVER MENTIONED ANOTHER DATA CENTER OR ANYTHING OF THAT NATURE.

>> OKAY. AND JUST TO BE CLEAR, THE LAST TIME THEY TALKED TO ME ABOUT THIS WAS YOU SAID 3 TO 4

MONTHS AGO. >> YES, SIR. >> OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU.

>> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? I DON'T I DON'T THINK WE HAVE ANY OTHER THAN THAT ONE. YEP.

>> ALL RIGHT. >> THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. APPRECIATE YOU. APPRECIATE IT. ALL RIGHT. SO THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING. ANYBODY WISHING TO SPEAK, YOU CAN COME DOWN.

STATE YOUR NAME AND YOUR TIME AGAIN. BEGIN. YOU HAVE FOUR MINUTES. JUST SIMPLY ASK THAT BEFORE YOU LEAVE THAT YOU COMPLETE A BLUE CARD. SO ANYBODY WANTS TO COME DOWN, JUST COME ON DOWN. YES. COME ON DOWN. STATE YOUR NAME AND YOUR TIME WILL BEGIN.

>> HELLO, MY NAME IS LYDIA SIMMONS. I'M A RESIDENT OF DENTON. MY ZIP CODE IS 76201.

I'M HERE TODAY. ALSO IN FAVOR OF THE MORATORIUM ON DATA CENTERS. WE'VE SEEN COUNTLESS EXAMPLES ACROSS THE COUNTRY OF DATA CENTERS BEING BUILT IN COMMUNITIES AND CAUSING EXTENDED POWER OUTAGES, POLLUTION THAT MAKES THE WATER UNUSABLE FOR DRINKING, COOKING AND BATHING, NOISE, POLLUTION THAT CAUSES MASSIVE PSYCHOLOGICAL AND THEN SUBSEQUENTLY PHYSICAL DISTRESS TO NEARBY HUMANS AND ANIMALS. EXTREME HEAT WAVES, AIR POLLUTION THAT CAUSES PREVIOUSLY HEALTHY NONSMOKERS TO SUDDENLY DEVELOP COPD AND MORE. AND THESE ARE ONLY THE CONSEQUENCES THAT WE KNOW NOW. I'M SURE WE CAN ALL IMAGINE WHAT THE LONGER TERM IMPACTS OF THIS POLLUTION WILL BE ON OUR BODIES AND THE ENVIRONMENT. AND BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN LIVING THROUGH IT, WE ALL KNOW THAT TEXAS IS ALREADY FACING EXTREME

[02:45:03]

LEVELS OF HEAT, INTENSE DROUGHTS AND WATER SHORTAGES, AND AN INCREASINGLY FRAGILE POWER GRID THAT COULD LEAVE US ALL WITHOUT ELECTRICITY AND VULNERABLE TO THE ELEMENTS AT THE DROP OF A HAT. THE LAST THING WE NEED IS CORPORATIONS COMING INTO OUR COMMUNITIES AND FORCING US TO BEAR THE PHYSICAL, PSYCHOLOGICAL, AND FINANCIAL BURDENS OF THEIR EXPERIMENTAL AND UNASKED FOR TECHNOLOGIES. WE HAVE NO REASON TO BELIEVE THAT THESE PROBLEMS ARE GOING TO GET BETTER ANYTIME SOON, OR THAT WE WILL BE ABLE TO REVERSE THEM AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE. AS ALANIS OBOMSAWIN SAID, WHEN THE LAST TREE IS CUT, THE LAST FISH IS CAUGHT AND THE LAST RIVER IS POLLUTED. WHEN TO BREATHE THE AIR IS SICKENING. YOU WILL REALIZE TOO LATE THAT WEALTH IS NOT IN BANK ACCOUNTS AND THAT YOU CAN'T EAT MONEY. THE MONEY YOU GET FROM GAMBLING AWAY OUR ENVIRONMENT, THE SOCIAL CAPITAL YOU GET FROM SUCKING UP TO CORPORATIONS WHO COULDN'T CARE LESS ABOUT DENTON WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PROTECT YOU OR ANY OF THE REST OF US IN THE COMING DECADES. THIS IS THE ONLY PLANET WE HAVE, AND WE HAVE TO PUT OUR FIRST BEFORE IT

IS TOO LATE. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. ANYBODY ELSE WISHING TO SPEAK?

COME ON DOWN AND STATE YOUR NAME. OH. >> I'LL MAKE SURE I FILL OUT ONE OF THOSE BLUE CARDS. MY NAME IS SETH FULLER. I'VE LIVED IN DENTON FOR ABOUT TEN YEARS.

MY CURRENT ZIP CODE IS 762045. I HAVE AN OFFICE IN 76201, AND I'M RUNNING FOR DISTRICT COURT JUDGE. I WASN'T PLANNING ON TALKING, BUT I WANTED TO ADDRESS SOMETHING THAT I HADN'T HEARD ADDRESSED BEFORE, BECAUSE I THINK THERE'S A REAL CONCERN WITH EVEN THOUGH EVERYTHING THAT EVERYBODY'S ALREADY SAID IS IMPORTANT AND NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED AS FAR AS THE ENVIRONMENT, AS FAR AS THE POWER, AS FAR AS THE WATER, I DO THINK THOSE THINGS COULD BE ADDRESSED, AND THAT IS MORE CONCERNING TO ME BECAUSE TO ME, THERE'S SOMETHING MORE FUNDAMENTAL HERE, WHICH IS WHAT DO THESE DATA CENTERS BRING TO OUR COMMUNITY? IF THE ONLY ANSWER IS MONEY, A PORTION, A SMALL PORTION OF $1 BILLION COMPANY MONEY, THEN ESSENTIALLY THEY'RE GIVING US NOTHING IN EXCHANGE FOR OUR RESOURCES, IF YOU WANT. THIS GOES FAR BEYOND NIMBY, NOT IN MY BACKYARD. IF YOU WANT TO BUILD A PRISON HERE, SAY WHAT YOU WANT ABOUT THE PROS AND CONS OF PRISONS. IT CREATES JOBS. THE ONE THING I DIDN'T SEE FROM THAT PRESENTATION WAS A SINGLE TALK ABOUT HOW MANY JOBS THAT THESE THINGS ARE GOING TO CREATE FOR THE CITIZENS OF DENTON. IF IT'S JUST MONEY, THEN OKAY, SAY IT'S JUST MONEY AND SAY, BUT IT'S A LOT OF MONEY. BUT THEN THE NEXT STEP IS TO EXPLAIN TO THE CITIZENRY HOW THAT MONEY IS GOING TO GET BACK INTO OUR COMMUNITY, BECAUSE THESE THINGS AREN'T CREATING JOBS. AND IN FACT, WITH THESE AI CENTERS, THEY'RE TAKING AWAY JOBS. THEY'RE NOTED GOAL IS TO REMOVE AS MANY JOBS AS POSSIBLE, AND THEN SOMETIMES THEY GIVE US A LITTLE LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL OF, WELL, THAT WILL THAT WILL RESULT IN MORE COMING BACK A UNIVERSAL INCOME, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. BUT IN THE MEANTIME, THEY'RE JUST PARASITES, IT SEEMS. AND WE HAVE TO ADDRESS THAT. IS THAT WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, THAT THESE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO COME IN THERE, PUT A DATA CENTER, THEY'RE GOING TO GIVE US A PORTION OF THE MONEY EARNED BY THAT DATA CENTER. AND NOT A SINGLE OR VERY FEW PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE EMPLOYED, AND MORE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE UNEMPLOYED AND DIRECTLY BY THEM. AND NOW, HOW ARE THOSE UNEMPLOYED CITIZENS WHO CAN'T FIND A JOB? BECAUSE AI TOOK OVER. AND WE HAVE THESE CENTERS HERE THAT ARE TAKING UP HUGE AMOUNTS OF LAND AND RESOURCES, BUT AREN'T GIVING A SINGLE THING TO THE COMMUNITY. AND I HAVEN'T SEEN A SINGLE ONE TRY TO SPONSOR ANYTHING FOR THE COMMUNITY, FOR THE ARTS, FOR ANYBODY. HOW IS THE MONEY THAT THEY ARE GOING TO BE GIVING THE CITY GOING TO BE? THEN HELP THE ACTUAL COMMUNITY THAT YOU REPRESENT? AND SO THE REASON I WANT TO SAY THAT, AND I FELT THE NEED TO SPEAK, IS BECAUSE THEY CAN BRING YOU A STUDY THAT SHOWS THAT THEY'LL PAY FOR ALL THE ELECTRIC EXTRA ELECTRICITY. THEY CAN BRING YOU A STUDY THAT SHOWS THAT MAYBE THEY'RE NOT AS EFFECTIVE AS THE ENVIRONMENT AS SOME PEOPLE THINK, BUT UNDERNEATH THAT IS, EVEN IF THEY BRING YOU ALL THOSE STUDIES AND SHOW YOU THAT THESE DATA CENTERS ARE, ARE, ARE OKAY, THEY WON'T USE ANY MORE RESOURCES THAN THEY ARE. THE QUESTION IS, ARE THEY BRINGING ANYTHING INTO OUR COMMUNITY OR ARE THEY JUST PARASITES? AND IT SEEMS TO ME THAT'S AN UNDERLYING QUESTION THAT WE NEED TO ANSWER. AND AGAIN, I AGREE WITH EVERYONE THAT I DON'T EVEN THINK A MORATORIUM IS NECESSARY IF WE HAVE A COUNCIL THAT'S GOING TO REPRESENT THE PEOPLE IN THAT IN THE FUTURE, ANYTIME THEY BRING SOMETHING NEW UP, THEY THEY ADDRESS THE CONCERNS THAT PEOPLE HAVE, WHICH GO FAR BEYOND THAT, BECAUSE THE LAST THING WE WANT IS FOR A BUNCH OF BILLIONAIRES WHO ARE GETTING EVEN RICHER TO TAKE THE MONEY FROM THE COMMUNITY OR TAKE THE RESOURCES FROM THE COMMUNITY, GIVE US A PITTANCE, AND THEN THAT MONEY DOESN'T EVEN GET BACK TO THE VERY PEOPLE WHOSE JOBS IT'S TAKING. SO I AM IN FAVOR OF A MORATORIUM. AND ESPECIALLY I'D LIKE TO SEE A,

THE THE FUNDAMENTAL ASPECT OF WHAT THESE ARE ADDRESSED. >> THANK YOU. ANYBODY ELSE

[02:50:01]

WISHING ANYBODY ELSE WISHING TO SPEAK. COME ON DOWN. GIVE US YOUR NAME.

>> HELLO. MY NAME IS ARJUN. I GO BY RJ. I HAVE BEEN IN DENTON FOR, WHAT, TWO, ALMOST THREE YEARS AT THIS POINT. AND I AM SPEAKING IN FAVOR OF A MORATORIUM. NOW, I AM NOT GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT THE JOBS THAT THE DATA CENTERS ARE GOING TO TAKE AWAY, NOR TO THE NOISE PROBLEM THAT IS ALSO CREATED, OR THE HEALTH PROBLEMS CREATED FOR US, OR THE FARM ANIMALS THAT WE EAT IN THIS AREA, OR THE INSECTS THAT ARE HURT, WHICH POLLINATE OUR PLANTS FROM SAID NOISE POLLUTION, NOR THE HEAT ISLAND EFFECT THAT RILEY MENTIONED EARLIER. I WILL BE SPECIFICALLY TALKING ABOUT THE WATER PROBLEM THAT IS CREATED NOW. WHAT WAS TALKED ABOUT WAS A CLOSED COOLING SYSTEM, AND INITIAL INPUT OF WATER IS JUST ONE ASPECT OF THIS COOLING SYSTEM, WHICH USES ABOUT 5 MILLION ON THE LARGER END. BUT THESE SYSTEMS ALSO USE ARTIFICIAL COOLANTS, WHICH SOMEONE ELSE HAD ALSO MENTIONED. AND THOSE. THAT'S GREAT. THAT'S WHY THEY'RE ABLE TO WORK SO EFFICIENTLY. BUT THOSE SYSTEMS NEED TO BE FLUSHED. THERE IS BUILD UP. THOSE LINES NEED TO BE PURGED, AND OBSERVING PAST TRENDS AND THE LACK OF PROPER ENVIRONMENTAL STUDIES FOR THIS AREA. WITHIN THIS CONTEXT, I SINCERELY DOUBT THAT THESE COMPANIES, THESE DATA CENTERS, HAVE SPENT THE TIME TO DEVELOP PROPER DISPOSAL METHODS, SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE OF THE EPA'S REFRIGERANT RULES BEING SLASHED, THEY NO LONGER HAVE TO FOLLOW THE SAME RESTRICTIONS THAT THEY PREVIOUSLY PREVIOUSLY HAD TO, WHAT, TWO YEARS AGO?

EVEN? THAT'S ALL I HAVE. >> OKAY. THANK YOU. ANYBODY ELSE WISHING TO SPEAK? YES.

STATE YOUR NAME. YOUR TIME WILL BEGIN. >> HI, MY NAME IS MIGUEL ESPINAL. I'VE BEEN LIVING IN DENTON FOR 12 YEARS NOW, AND I'M NOT ORIGINALLY FROM HERE. I CAME HERE FOR GRAD SCHOOL, AND THEN I JUST FELL IN LOVE WITH THE COMMUNITY AND THE ARTISTIC COMMUNITY AND THE MUSIC. I'M A. SO I FIND DENTON RIGHT NOW. I'VE MOVED AROUND A LOT IN MY LIFE TO BE BASICALLY HOME FOR ME. I AM OBVIOUSLY AGAINST DATA CENTERS BEING BUILT HERE AND IN FAVOR OF A MORATORIUM. I HEAR THE PEOPLE THAT ARE PROMOTING THESE THINGS AND WANTING TO BUILD THEM SAY THINGS LIKE, LET'S MOVE FAST AND BREAK THINGS. AND I HEAR ALL THE DANGERS THAT EVERYBODY HAS BROUGHT UP, FROM THE JOBS TO THE WATER. AND, AND I LOVE DENTON VERY MUCH. I WOULD HATE TO SEE DENTON BE ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THESE PEOPLE WHO STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING, EVEN THE MONEY THAT HAS BEEN BROUGHT UP QUITE A BIT, IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE PAYING OFF. THERE'S SO MANY DATA CENTERS ACROSS THE COUNTRY THAT ARE BEING HALTED BECAUSE THE MONEY IS NOT COMING IN. THEY'RE DESPERATE FOR PEOPLE TO BE USING THEIR AI, WHICH IS REALLY JUST LARGE LANGUAGE MODELS. IT'S NOT THE AGI THAT THEY'VE BEEN PROMISING FOR THREE YEARS NOW THAT IT'S GOING TO COME IN IN SIX MONTHS, AND IT'S GOING TO MAKE EVERYBODY SUPER HAPPY. IT'S JUST A LIMITED TECHNOLOGY THAT THEY'RE REALLY WANTING TO SELL AND THEY'RE, THEY'RE WILLING TO BREAK EVERYTHING FOR AND TAKE OUR RESOURCES FOR. I WOULD HATE TO SEE DENTON BE ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT THEY'RE BASICALLY PLAYING WITH AS THEIR LITTLE TOYS FOR THEIR EXPERIMENT, THAT THEY'RE NOT EVEN SURE THEY'RE EVEN GOING TO BE ABLE TO PAY OFF ALL THEIR INVESTORS IN ALL THIS CIRCULAR INVESTING THAT THEY'VE BEEN DOING ANYWAY. SO I DON'T THINK THE CITY OF DENTON, EVEN IF WE GET SOME MONEY FROM IT, WE WOULD EVEN BE ABLE TO BENEFIT FROM IT IN A FEW YEARS. WE'VE ALREADY SEEN THE DATA CENTER THAT'S BEEN BROUGHT UP BY RACHEL EARLIER FOR THE CRYPTO MINING BE BANKRUPT. WHAT HAPPENS WHEN WE LOSE ALL OUR WATER AND OUR ECOSYSTEMS GET DAMAGED AND WE LOSE A LOT OF GREEN SPACES, AND THEN EVEN THE MONEY'S NOT EVEN COMING IN. AND TURNS OUT AI WAS A FLOP OR JUST ANOTHER KIND OF USEFUL TECHNOLOGY THAT PEOPLE USE TO SORT THROUGH DATABASES. SO I REALLY THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT FOR US TO THINK ABOUT THESE THINGS AND TAKE OUR TIME, LIKE PEOPLE HAVE SUGGESTED, COME UP WITH RELIABLE SOLUTIONS AND TRY TO TAKE CARE OF OUR COMMUNITY AND SEE WHAT OUR LIKE. THE ACTUAL RESIDENTS OF DENTON THINK ABOUT AND WHAT WE'RE WANTING FOR TO HAVE IN OUR AROUND US. SORRY I DIDN'T PREPARE FOR THIS. I WASN'T EVEN

EXPECTING TO TALK. BUT THAT'S ALL I HAVE. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU, THANK YOU VERY

[02:55:02]

MUCH. ANYBODY ELSE WISHING TO SPEAK? YES, PLEASE COME DOWN. AND THEN YOU'RE NEXT. MEMBERS

OF COUNCIL. >> I'M JOSH TAYLOR, AND LIKE SO MANY OF MY NEIGHBORS TONIGHT, I'M HERE TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OF THIS MORATORIUM. I RECOGNIZE THAT THIS IS NOT A DECISION WITHOUT CONSEQUENCES. AND I WANT TO COMMEND YOU ALL FOR ALL OF THE HARD WORK THAT YOU'VE DONE ON THE BUDGET THAT YOU'RE GOING TO DISCUSS A LITTLE LATER IN THIS MEETING. DATA CENTERS REPRESENT SIGNIFICANT POTENTIAL REVENUE FOR OUR CITY, INCLUDING PERSONAL PROPERTY TAX REVENUE.

THAT IS IMPORTANT TO TO THAT BUDGET. I RECOGNIZE THAT, BUT I ALSO RECOGNIZE THAT THE DEPRECIATION OF THAT REVENUE COULD PRESENT CHALLENGES IN YEARS AHEAD, BALANCING THE BUDGET OF A RAPIDLY GROWING CITY WHILE MAINTAINING THE SERVICES OUR RESIDENTS EXPECT IS DIFFICULT WORK. THE FINANCIAL IMPLICATIONS DESERVE SERIOUS CONSIDERATION, BUT SO DO THE SIGNIFICANT ENVIRONMENTAL CONCERNS SURROUNDING THESE DEVELOPMENTS.

BUT TONIGHT, I REALLY BELIEVE THAT THE QUESTION BEFORE YOU IS MUCH MORE STRAIGHTFORWARD. WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO ACTUALLY LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE YOU WERE ELECTED TO REPRESENT? DATA CENTERS HAVE REPEATEDLY COME UP IN CONVERSATIONS WITH RESIDENTS, INCLUDING DURING YOUR OWN CAMPAIGNS FOR OFFICE. THE CONCERNS BEING EXPRESSED TONIGHT ARE NOT NEW, AND THEY ARE NOT LIMITED TO A HANDFUL OF PEOPLE IN THIS ROOM. A MORATORIUM IS NOT A PERMANENT DECISION ABOUT THE FUTURE OF DATA CENTERS IN DENTON, BUT IT IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO EXAMINE THE IMPLICATIONS OF CONTINUED DEVELOPMENT, TO ASK DIFFICULT QUESTIONS, AND TO MAKE SURE WE UNDERSTAND THE LONG TERM COST AS WELL AS THE POTENTIAL BENEFITS. MAYOR PRO TEM STEPHENS RAISED AN IMPORTANT QUESTION TONIGHT ABOUT PLANS FOR FUTURE EXPANSIONS OF OUR CURRENT DATA CENTERS. WHAT ADDITIONAL DEVELOPMENT IS ANTICIPATED, WHAT DEMANDS WILL IT PLACE ON OUR INFRASTRUCTURE AND RESOURCES? AND AS MR. FULLER SAID, HOW WILL WE ENSURE THAT THE FINANCIAL BENEFITS TO THE CITY ARE NOT OUTWEIGHED BY COST BORNE BY OUR RESIDENTS? THESE ARE QUESTIONS THAT DESERVE ANSWERS BEFORE WE MOVE FORWARD. SO A MORATORIUM IS THE LEAST WE CAN DO. TONIGHT, YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO DEMONSTRATE THAT THE PUBLIC THAT PUBLIC PARTICIPATION MATTERS, NOT SIMPLY BECAUSE RESIDENTS HAVE BEEN GIVEN OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK, BUT BECAUSE THEIR CONCERNS ARE REFLECTED IN THE DECISIONS YOU MAKE. I URGE YOU TO APPROVE THIS MORATORIUM AND USE THE TIME THAT IT PROVIDES TO ASK THOSE DIFFICULT, DIFFICULT QUESTIONS. OUR RESIDENTS ARE SPEAKING QUITE LOUDLY ON THIS ISSUE, AND THE QUESTION TONIGHT IS WHETHER OR NOT YOU'RE LISTENING. ONE TIMELY, FACTUAL DETAIL THAT YOU MIGHT WANT TO CONSIDER IS THAT ON SEPTEMBER 21ST, GOVERNOR ABBOTT DIRECTED TEXAS REGULATORS TO HALT NEW DATA CENTER PERMITS. SO THIS IS NO LONGER A PARTIZAN ISSUE. WE HAVE CONSENSUS ACROSS THE STATE THAT WE NEED TO TAKE THE TIME, ASK THE QUESTIONS AND MAKE

THOUGHTFUL DECISIONS. >> THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. YES. COME ON DOWN. STATE

YOUR NAME. YOUR TIME WILL BEGIN. >> HI. MY NAME IS VICTORIA DONALDSON. I'M A RESIDENT IN 76201. I'M NOT ORIGINALLY FROM DENTON. I ALSO MOVED HERE FOR GRAD SCHOOL AND FOUND THAT I REALLY ENJOYED IT. I WASN'T ALSO PREPARED TO SPEAK TODAY, BUT. SO I DON'T HAVE FIGURES FOR YOU, BUT I DID WANT TO LOOK TO PASS THINGS. SOMEONE MENTIONED EARLIER HOW WE'RE STILL JUST NOW LOOKING INTO AFTER EFFECTS FROM THINGS THAT WERE STARTED 20 YEARS AGO. SO I WOULD LIKE YOU TO LOOK TO LIKE WEST VIRGINIA, FOR EXAMPLE. THERE ARE SO MANY ENVIRONMENTAL FACTORS THAT ARE KIND OF BEING JUST NOW INVESTIGATED AND OFTEN COVERED UP BECAUSE HONESTLY, DO WE EXPECT THESE LARGE SCALE CORPORATIONS TO BE HONEST WITH US AND TO REALLY PLAY BY THE RULES WHEN ALL THEY CARE ABOUT IS PROFIT? SO THERE ARE SO MANY MINES WHERE THERE'S A BUNCH OF CHEMICAL RUNOFF, AND THEY'RE CLAIMING THAT THEY DON'T KNOW ABOUT IT, AND THEY DO, AND THEY COVER IT UP. AND WHO'S TO SAY THAT THESE THINGS WON'T HAPPEN HERE AS WELL? ALSO, IF WE LOOK AT BOXTOWN RIGHT OUTSIDE OF MEMPHIS AND TENNESSEE, THAT WAS AN AREA WHERE SO MANY MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY HAVE ENDED UP HAVING CANCER, BECAUSE THERE WAS JUST SO MUCH POLLUTION IN THE AIR THAT WAS UNDERSTUDIED AND UNDERREPORTED. AND THERE WAS A PRETTY, PRETTY CLEAR CORRELATION THAT IT WAS POLLUTION FROM THE NEARBY DATA CENTERS. SO REALLY, EVEN IF I EXPECT YOU GUYS TO HAVE OUR BACKS AND CODIFY THINGS AND MAKE MORE RULES, I REALLY DON'T TRUST THESE LARGE SCALE CORPORATIONS TO PLAY BY THEM, MUCH LESS ACCURATELY REPORT. SO I'M DEFINITELY IN FAVOR OF A MORATORIUM AND HOPEFULLY EVENTUALLY A POSSIBLE BAND. AND

I APPRECIATE YOU GUYS LISTENING TO US TONIGHT. >> THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR COMING DOWN TO SPEAK. ANYBODY ELSE WISHING TO SPEAK. YES. STATE YOUR NAME AND YOUR TIME

[03:00:13]

WILL BEGIN. >> I'M BACK. I'M ANNA. I'VE SPOKEN TO YOU A FEW TIMES ABOUT MASS SURVEILLANCE AND LAST TIME ABOUT DATA CENTERS. AND THEN THE LAST TIME I SPOKE ABOUT DATA CENTERS WAS WHEN YOU VOTED TO HAVE THESE MEETINGS. SO I REALLY APPRECIATE THAT. IT MEANS A LOT TO ME. I DID SPEAK ABOUT THE FOREVER CHEMICALS AND THE FLUSHINGS, LIKE THOSE WERE BROUGHT UP. EMINENT DOMAIN IS ANOTHER HUGE CONCERN I BROUGHT UP LAST TIME AND MORE OBVIOUSLY NOW, I'M WORRIED THAT THE CORPORATIONS ARE TRYING TO SNEAK UNDER OUR NOSES AND ARE LYING TO YOU ABOUT WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO DO BEHIND YOUR BACKS, AND THAT'S BEEN A COMMON THING ACROSS THE COUNTRY. SO I THINK IT'S SOMETHING TO TAKE VERY SERIOUSLY. I WOULDN'T BELIEVE WHAT THEY SAY AT FACE VALUE, DESPITE WHAT THE GOVERNMENT AND THE GOVERNOR TEMPORARILY ORDERS, IT IS UP TO LOCAL GOVERNMENT TO DO THE RIGHT THINGS TO ENSURE QUALITY OF LIFE FOR US IN DENTON LONG TERM. TO ALL OF YOU WITH THE ARGUMENT STATING THAT WE NEED MORE DATA CENTERS TO GO ON APPS AND USE OUR PHONES, WHILE YOU ARE PARTIALLY CORRECT THAT THE DATA IS STORED SOMEWHERE, WE DO NOT AND HAVE NEVER NEEDED MANY AS MANY MEGA DATA CENTERS AS ARE POPPING UP NOW. AND YOU DO NOT NEED TO USE GENERATIVE AI FOR YOUR BAD FLIERS OR TO READ YOUR TEXTS AND EMAILS FOR YOU. BUT THE PROBLEM IS BIGGER THAN THAT. THESE DATA CENTERS ARE USED FOR LARGE SCALE AI INFRASTRUCTURE, STORING YOUR PERSONAL CONSUMER DATA, MASS SURVEILLANCE DATA, AND FOR CORPORATIONS AND ENTITIES THAT SIMPLY SHOULD NOT BE COLLECTING INSANE AMOUNTS OF PRIVATE INFORMATION ON ALL OF US, AND NOT JUST FOR YOUR PSEUDO RELATIONSHIP WITH CHATGPT. THESE TECH BILLIONAIRES ARE TRYING TO MAKE A PROFIT BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY BEFORE THE OVERINFLATED AI BUBBLE BURSTS, AND YOU AND OUR RESOURCES WILL FALL VICTIM TO THEIR GREED. ANYONE WHO WILLINGLY AGREES TO BUILD MORE DATA CENTERS HAS SIMPLY CHOSEN NOT TO DO UNBIASED RESEARCH TO FIND THAT THEY ARE BEING LIED TO BY THESE COMPANIES ON EVERY LEVEL. THE PURE DEVASTATION THEY CAUSE COMMUNITIES HAS BEEN SHOWN REPEATEDLY ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND IN THIS STATE. AND YET, GREED AND IGNORANCE STILL FUEL THESE CHOICES, BECAUSE THE ONES MAKING THE DECISIONS DO NOT HAVE TO LIVE NEXT TO THEM. IF YOU DO NOT EVENTUALLY PASS A SOLID DATA CENTER BAN, I'LL BE THINKING OF YOU. I'LL THINK OF YOU EVERY TIME I SEE WATERS RECEDE AND THE ELECTRIC BILLS GO UP. I'LL THINK OF YOU EVERY TIME WE BREAK MORE HEAT RECORDS.

AND ON THE DAYS WHEN THE POLLUTION IS THICK. I'LL THINK OF YOU. WHEN ANY BIT OF PEACE AND QUIET WE HAVE LEFT IS GONE. AS OUR NATURE IS SURRENDERED FOR THE SAKE OF OUR DEVELOPMENT AND PROGRESS, I'LL ALSO THINK OF YOU IF AND WHEN AI DRONES MADE AT THE POTENTIAL SKY FACILITY KILL CHILDREN IN PALESTINE. I'LL REMEMBER EVERY ONE OF YOU WHO DO NOT VOTE FOR A MORATORIUM AND WHO SUPPORT UNETHICAL AI INFRASTRUCTURE. WE SAY YES TO A MORATORIUM, AND I HOPE FOR A BAN FOR THE SAKE OF EVERYTHING THAT MAKES DENTON GREAT.

>> THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING. ANYBODY ELSE WISHING TO SPEAK? RIGHT AFTER THIS PERSON COMING DOWN HERE? YEAH. COME ON, STATE YOUR NAME

AND ADDRESS. >> HELLO. >> MY NAME IS CANDACE DOWNING.

I LIVE AT 76201. I'VE TALKED TO YOU GUYS RECENTLY ABOUT SOME ZONING NEAR MY HOUSE. I JUST WANTED TO ADD MY NAME TO THE PILE IN FAVOR OF THE MORATORIUM. I WANTED TO SHARE A LITTLE ANECDOTES, NOT AS GRAND AS SOME OF THE THINGS PEOPLE HAVE SAID, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF YOU ALL REMEMBER SNOWPOCALYPSE. I LIVED JUST OUTSIDE THE DMV ZONE AND I WATCHED ALL OF MY NEIGHBORS GET THEIR POWER BACK DAYS BEFORE I DID, AND I SPENT SO MUCH TIME SITTING IN A TINY ROOM COVERED IN BLANKETS WITH HOT WATER, JUST TRYING TO STAY WARM. AND BECAUSE OF THAT EVENT, I AM NOW WHAT YOU WOULD CONSIDER A LIGHT PREPPER. I HAVE A CABINET FULL OF FOOD AND WATER IN CASE THAT EVER HAPPENS TO ME AGAIN. I MOVED INTO THE DMV POWER REALM ALMOST SPECIFICALLY FOR THAT REASON. I DON'T WANT TO BE CAUGHT WITH MY PANTS DOWN AGAIN LIKE THAT. AND IF THESE DATA CENTERS MAKE OUR PUBLIC SERVICES LESS RELIABLE, I I'M NOT GOING TO WANT TO STAY HERE.

IT'S IT WAS SUCH A DAMAGING EVENT. THE DEGRADATION OF OUR PUBLIC SERVICES HAS PSYCHOLOGICAL RAMIFICATIONS FOR THE CITIZENRY. AND I REALLY WANT TO AVOID THAT. AND THAT'S

ALL I WANTED TO SAY. >> THANK YOU. >> YES. COMING DOWN AND STATE

YOUR NAME AND YOUR TIME WILL BEGIN. >> HELLO, MY NAME IS SHANA ALSUP. I'LL MAKE THIS REALLY SHORT BECAUSE I THINK THAT MY NEIGHBORS DID A GREAT JOB EXPLAINING ALL THE REASONS THAT WE ARE IN FAVOR OF A MORATORIUM AND POTENTIALLY A BAN REAL QUICK. JUST WANTED TO BRING UP SOME OTHER POINTS YOU MIGHT WANT TO CONSIDER. ONE IS THAT OUR ELECTRIC FACILITIES ALREADY USE WATER TO COOL OUR ELECTRIC. AND SO NOT ONLY DO YOU HAVE TO CONSIDER THE WATER THAT THESE DATA CENTERS ARE GOING TO TAKE, YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THE INCREASED DEMAND ON ELECTRICITY AND HOW MUCH WATER THAT IS GOING TO TAKE. YEAH, IT'S

[03:05:04]

REALLY BAD FOR THE ENVIRONMENT. A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE ARE FOLLOWING SUIT AND SHUTTING DOWN. I WOULD HOPE THAT DENTON IS ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF HISTORY, AND I IMPLORE YOU TO PLEASE SELECT THE PEOPLE TO DO THE ENVIRONMENTAL STUDIES. IF YOU HAVE THAT ABILITY WITH GREAT CARE, BECAUSE IF THERE'S ANYTHING THAT'S GOING TO BE ABLE TO SLOW THIS DOWN OR SHUT THIS DOWN, IT'S GOING TO BE THE FINDINGS THAT ARE IN THAT. SO PLEASE JUST DO THAT WITH GREAT CONSIDERATION FOR ALL OF YOUR CONSTITUENTS. BECAUSE IF NOT TRULY, THIS IS SUCH A PIVOTAL DECISION. SO MANY PEOPLE WILL LEAVE ME INCLUDED, AND ANYBODY ELSE LEFT HERE WILL BE LEFT TO

KISS ROBOTS BUTTS. THAT'S THAT'S OUR FUTURE. >> THANK YOU, THANK YOU. ALL

RIGHT. ANYBODY ELSE WISHING TO SPEAK? YES. >> I HATE PUBLIC SPEAKING.

>> YES. STATE YOUR NAME. AND YOUR NAME. >> IS 76201. OKAY. I WROTE THIS A LONG TIME AGO WHENEVER I HEARD ABOUT THE DATA CENTER HAPPENING. SO LET'S SEE IF IT STILL SOUNDS GOOD. CAN I ASK Y'ALL QUESTIONS? AM I ALLOWED TO ASK Y'ALL QUESTIONS? NO. CAN

I ASK THEM QUESTIONS LIKE GENERAL QUESTIONS? >> IF YOU CAN SHE CAN SHE ASK

US QUESTIONS OR CAN WE RESPOND? YES. OKAY. >> OKAY, COOL. WHO HERE USES WATER EVERY DAY? OKAY. WHO HERE DRINKS COFFEE? TEA. LOVES A GOOD SODA FOUNTAIN DRINK, LOVES STARBUCKS. JUPITER HOUSE DUTCH BROS IS OBSESSED WITH SONIC ICE. WHO HAS PLANTS OR PETS OR CHILDREN THAT DRINK WATER EVERY DAY. OKAY, WHO GETS HERE OCCASIONALLY? WHO HERE GETS OCCASIONALLY ANNOYED BY LOUD NEIGHBORS OR LOUD NOISES? WHETHER IT'S THE LAWNMOWER OUTSIDE WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO SLEEP AND ON A SATURDAY, OR CROWD CELEBRATING THE WORLD CUP WHILE YOU'RE TRYING TO HAVE A NICE DINNER DATE, OR YOU'RE UPSTAIRS OR SIDEWAYS NEIGHBORS WALKING AROUND AND TALKING LATE AT NIGHT, WHO IN THIS ROOM KNOWS SOMEONE LOVES SOMEONE? OR IS SOMEONE WHO HAS OR HAS HAD OR HAS CANCER? WHO KNOWS TWO PEOPLE WHO HAS HAD OR HAS CANCER. DO WE REALLY WANT TO ALLOW DATA CENTERS TO COME INTO OUR TOWN AND QUADRUPLE THESE NUMBERS? WE KNOW FOR A FACT THAT DATA CENTERS POLLUTE AND DRY UP DRINKING WATER. THEY CAUSE IMMENSE NOISE POLLUTION, WHICH HAS BEEN LINKED TO MIGRAINES AND OTHER HEALTH ISSUES, AND THEY HAVE BEEN TIED TO INCREASES IN CANCER AND OTHER HEALTH RELATED ATROCITIES.

WE CAN WATCH THESE THINGS HAPPEN IN REAL TIME TO OTHER CITIES. WE CAN LISTEN TO PEOPLE'S HORROR STORIES. WE CAN READ COURT DOCUMENTS AND LAWSUITS ATTESTING TO THESE FACTS. WE CAN SEE THE GHOST TOWNS AND DESTRUCTION THAT DATA CENTERS HAVE LEFT BEHIND. WE CAN ALSO WATCH THE PEOPLE COME TOGETHER IN OTHER CITIES AND SAY NO. AND WHEN, BECAUSE WE THE PEOPLE ARE AND ALWAYS HAVE BEEN MANY. I READ SOMEWHERE THAT WHEN I FORGOT ABOUT THIS IN HERE, I READ SOMEWHERE THAT WHEN TEXAS SNEEZES, AMERICA GETS A COLD. AND WHEN AMERICA SNEEZES, THE REST OF THE WORLD GETS A COLD. TEXAS HAS LONG BEEN A STATE OF RESISTANCE AND A STATE OF PROUD PEOPLE. EVEN THOSE OF US WHO ARE LIKE, OH YEAH, I'M FROM TEXAS. AND EVERYONE ELSE GASPS AND THEY'RE LIKE, WHAT? YOU'RE FROM TEXAS? WE HAVE PRIDE IN THAT. BEING FROM TEXAS MEANS SOMETHING IN THIS WEIRD LITTLE WORLD. AND WHAT WE DECIDE HERE WITH THIS ISSUE MATTERS. DENTON MATTERS. I LIVE IN DENTON BECAUSE I LOVE DENTON. WE CAN KEEP OUR DENT IN THE WAY WE WANT IT, AND IF WE WANT IT, FREE OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL CATASTROPHE AND QUALITY OF LIFE. SOUL SUCK THAT IS DATA CENTERS. NO ONE CAN REALLY TELL US. NO.

>> THAT'S IT. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. ANYBODY ELSE? >> THOSE ARE REALLY BIG STEPS.

MY NAME IS RACHEL 76201. I CAME HERE STRAIGHT FROM WORK. I'M NOT PREPARED AT ALL. SO I'M JUST GOING TO WING IT. I AM IN FAVOR OF THE MORATORIUM ON DATA CENTERS. IT'S TOO HOT OUTSIDE ALREADY. WE CAN'T AFFORD TO HAVE IT EVEN HOTTER IN DENTON. WE ARE ALREADY STRUGGLING WITH OUR ENERGY NEEDS RIGHT NOW. WE CAN'T AFFORD TO STRESS OUR SYSTEM ANYMORE. WE DON'T HAVE WATER TO SPARE. OUR STATE'S BEEN IN EXTREME DROUGHT FOR QUITE A WHILE. EVERY YEAR SINCE I'VE BEEN ALIVE. THAT I KNOW OF. AND TRUTH BE TOLD, EVEN IF WE COULD MITIGATE ALL OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL RISKS OF A DATA CENTER, WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT WHAT THESE DATA CENTERS ARE FOR.

WE'VE BEEN PROMISED ALL THESE AMAZING, MIRACULOUS THINGS THAT AI CAN DO WITH, YOU KNOW,

[03:10:03]

MEDICAL CARE OR MAKING OUR JOBS EASIER AND ALL OF THAT. BUT WHAT WE'VE SEEN SO FAR IS MASS SURVEILLANCE, SPYING ON CITIZENS WITHOUT WARRANTS. WHAT WE'VE SEEN IS THE UGLIEST FLIERS WE'VE EVER SEEN IN YOUR LIFE. AND ARTISTS LOSING, LOSING THEIR LIVELIHOODS. WE'VE SEEN STUDENTS LOSING THEIR ABILITY TO THINK CRITICALLY AND TO ARE FAILING THEIR CLASSES AND THEIR TESTS, AND COME OUT OF SCHOOL NOT HAVING A QUALITY EDUCATION BECAUSE AI IS SO FULLY INTEGRATED IN WHAT THEY DO. IT WOULD BE WONDERFUL IF WE GET ALL OF THE HUMANITARIAN THINGS OUT OF THIS TECHNOLOGY THAT ARE PROMISED, BUT I THINK THE MORATORIUM AND ANY KIND OF BAN, ANY KIND OF DELAY WE CAN PUT ON THIS TECHNOLOGY, IS USEFUL SO THAT WE HAVE TIME TO REGULATE AND PASS LAWS AGAINST WHAT WE WANT THIS TECHNOLOGY FOR AND WHAT WE DON'T. WE PASS LAWS AGAINST, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE CAN USE NUCLEAR ENERGY FOR. WE PASS LAWS AGAINST ALL THESE KINDS OF THINGS THAT SHOW POTENTIAL TO HARM PEOPLE. WE NEED THAT. ANY KIND OF DELAY WE CAN GET GIVES US TIME TO DO THAT. I WOULD ALSO SAY, YOU KNOW, I'VE HEARD THAT NOT EVERYBODY IS MOTIVATED BY COMPASSION FOR OTHER PEOPLE. NOT EVERYBODY IS MOTIVATED BY STRONG PRINCIPLES AND ETHICS. SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO APPEAL TO PEOPLE'S SELFISH SELF-INTEREST.

SO I WOULD SAY YOU BREATHE THE AIR, YOU DRINK THE WATER, YOUR KIDS GO TO THESE SCHOOLS. YOU WANT TO HAVE THE PRIVACY AND PROTECTIONS OF THAT ANY CITIZEN SHOULD EXPECT. AND THIS ISSUE IS WIDELY POPULAR ACROSS ALL KINDS OF DEMOGRAPHICS, ACROSS PARTY LINES. THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY OPPOSE DATA CENTERS AND ARE VERY, VERY SUSPICIOUS OF AI. SO I WOULD SAY NOT ONLY THINK ABOUT YOURSELVES AND YOUR OWN FAMILIES, BUT THINK ABOUT YOUR

OWN POLITICAL FUTURES, BECAUSE WE'LL REMEMBER. >> THANK YOU, THANK YOU. OKAY.

ANYONE ELSE? YES. OH, OKAY. SORRY. YEAH. Y'ALL SORT OF RAISE YOUR HAND HIGH SO I CAN MAKE SURE I GET THE ORDER CORRECT. SO I APPRECIATE THAT. THANK YOU FOR HELPING ME STATE

YOUR NAME AND YOUR TIME WILL BEGIN. DAMN. >> ALL RIGHT. I'M GOING TO KEEP THIS BRIEF, JOSHUA. I'M IN 76201. YEAH. ANY CURSORY SEARCH ON THE INTERNET AND YOU'LL FIND SEVERAL SOURCES SOURCES SHOWING THESE AI DATA CENTERS USE FRESH WATER. SO I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING WORTH LOOKING, LOOKING INTO WHAT THIS CENTER IS GOING TO BE USING, WHAT TYPE OF WATER, BECAUSE EVERYTHING I'VE SEEN, THAT'S THE CHOICE THAT THEY MAKE. THEY DECIDE TO USE CLEAN WATER INSTEAD OF DIRTY WATER. ANYWAY, LET'S LOOK AT DOING THE BARE MINIMUM OF JUST LIKE EXTENDING THIS BECAUSE FRANKLY, WE NEED A BAN OF THIS BECAUSE LIKE OUR NEIGHBORS ARE SAYING THERE'S NOT ENOUGH INFORMATION ON THIS. SO WE SHOULD PUT THE PEOPLE OVER THE PROFITS THAT THIS COULD BRING. AND IF THAT MEANS THIS TAKES A HIT TO A COMPANY LIKE PETERBILT, THAT'S JUST WHAT IT IS. BUT YOU KNOW, WE'RE MORE IMPORTANT. WE'RE THE LABORERS AND WE'RE THE WE'RE THE PEOPLE THAT'S BRINGING THE MONEY INTO THE CITY. SO LET ME SEE WHERE I'M AT. I WORK IN A NON CLIMATE CONTROLLED WAREHOUSE JUST NORTH OF DENTON.

AND THIS SUMMER I SEEN SO MANY PEOPLE, YOUNGER AND OLDER PASSING OUT ON THE JOB SITE.

YOU KNOW, WE'RE DRIVING FORKLIFTS ALL DAY. THE FORKLIFTS EMIT AN IMMENSE AMOUNT OF HEAT, SO YOU HAVE TO CONTINUALLY DRINK WATER. SO YOU SEE THE CONNECTION I'M TRYING TO BRIDGE BETWEEN IF I HAVE MY I NEED TO MENTION AS WELL, MY JOB DOESN'T HAVE CLEAN WATER.

THE ONLY CLEAN WATER SOURCE THAT ONE OF MY COWORKERS FOUND IS IN A JANITOR CLOSET. THAT'S FILTHY. BUT BUT HE CHECKED WITH SOMETHING HE HAD. AND IT'S. THE ONLY CLEAN WATER WE HAVE COMES FROM LIKE A HOSE THAT THE MOP BUCKET, LIKE, SITS IN LIKE A SINK LIKE THAT, THAT WE HAVE TO USE TO MAKE COFFEE EVERY MORNING. SO THIS IS JUST, THAT'S JUST ONE EXAMPLE OF LIKE, IF I HAVE TO BRING WATER FROM HOME, WHICH IS WHAT I DO NOW IN A GALLON JUG, IF I'M HAVING TO PULL THAT WATER FROM MY SINK, I HAVE TO DRINK THAT WATER. I ALREADY AM QUESTIONING WHAT'S IN THE WATER NOW. I CAN'T IMAGINE IF LIKE THERE SIPHONING CLEAN WATER INTO THIS DATA CENTER THAT'S JUST GOING TO BE USED TO SPY ON US AND ALL SORTS OF DIFFERENT WAY, ALL SORTS OF DIFFERENT WAYS THAT NOW I HAVE TO LIKE FIGURE OUT ANOTHER WAY TO GET CLEAN WATER BECAUSE MY JOB DOESN'T REQUIRE IT. I'M GONNA CALL THEM OUT TO NOW DO, DO BETTER. OR MAKE MORE MONEY THAN WALMART AS FAR AS DISTRIBUTION. AND WE CAN'T EVEN AFFORD THE WORKERS THAT ARE

[03:15:01]

BRINGING IN ALL THE MONEY, NOT THE TRUCK DRIVERS ARE JUST AS MUCH AS THE TRUCK DRIVERS MONEY.

WE CAN'T AFFORD THE LABORERS CLEAN WATER. SO ANYWAY, JUST AS WELL AS DOING THE BARE MINIMUM, LIKE I SAID, ON A MORATORIUM, THAT'S ONLY WHAT, SIX MONTHS BECAUSE WE SHOULD BE BANNING THEM. LET'S LOOK INTO LIKE WHAT THIS DATA CENTER. IF INEVITABLY Y'ALL DECIDE TO CHOOSE MONEY OVER THE PEOPLE, WHICH IS USUALLY THE PATTERN, AT LEAST LET'S PRIORITIZE LIKE BANNING

IT. THAT NEEDS TO BE PART OF THE CONVERSATION. >> THANK YOU, THANK YOU, I BELIEVE. YES, YES. COME ON DOWN. THANK YOU. STATE YOUR NAME. YOUR TIME WILL BEGIN.

>> MY NAME IS DENNIS FISHER 76209. AND I THINK WE ALL APPRECIATE THE GOVERNOR'S RESPONSE YESTERDAY BY PUTTING A TEMPORARY BAN ON NEW PERMITTING, WHICH SEEMS TO BE COINCIDENTAL WITH LOBBYING FOR REELECTION. AND I THINK THAT I WOULD ENCOURAGE THE COUNCIL TO CONSIDER NOT A 60 DAY OR 180 DAY BAN OR MORATORIUM, BUT A FULL YEAR. I THINK WE CAN ANTICIPATE THAT MANY MINDS WILL BE CHANGED IN THE LEGISLATURE WITH INTENSE LOBBYING. AND AT THE END OF THAT LEGISLATIVE SESSION AT THE END OF MAY, THAT THERE WILL BE SOME SORT OF STATEWIDE. SOME SORT OF STATEWIDE REGULATIONS THAT ARE LIKELY TO BE MORE PERMISSIVE THAN MANY OF US WOULD LIKE TO SEE. THE ADDITIONAL TIME WOULD GIVE YOU AN OPPORTUNITY TO TO RESPOND OR TO STRATEGIZE ON HOW YOU WILL DEAL WITH WHATEVER COMES FORWARD. I THINK ALL OF THE COMMENTS TODAY HAVE BEEN PRESCIENT WITH. SINCERE FEELINGS ABOUT ALL OF THE THINGS THAT ARE HARMFUL TO COME FROM THIS, BUT I THINK A LONGER TIME FOR YOU TO DEAL WITH THE FALLOUT FROM WHATEVER HAPPENS IN THE LEGISLATURE WOULD BENEFIT THE CITIZENS OF DENTON.

THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. ANYONE ELSE WISHING TO SPEAK? ANYONE ELSE? YES. YES. COME ON. YES. DO WHAT? YEAH. IF YOU'VE ALREADY SPOKE. YEAH. YOU ONLY GET YOU ONLY GET ONE TIME TO SPEAK. YES. OKAY. SORRY. I GOT MY GLASSES OFF SO I DIDN'T, I COULDN'T. YEAH. ALL RIGHT. SORRY ABOUT THAT. OKAY. ANYBODY WISHING TO SPEAK FOR THE FIRST TIME. STATE YOUR NAME,

YOUR TIME. BEGIN. >> HELLO. I'M LONDON. GOOD AFTERNOON. COUNCIL. I JUST WANTED TO ASK, HOW DOES THIS POSITIVELY AFFECT THE COMMUNITY IN DENTON? THESE DATA CENTERS.

COUNCIL. >> ANYBODY? YEAH. WELL, I THINK I YOU'RE ASKING HOW DO THEY POSITIVELY AFFECT. I MEAN, WE'RE CONSIDERING A MORATORIUM. WE'RE IN THE PROCESS OF CONSIDERING A MORATORIUM. SO I CAN ONLY SPEAK FOR MYSELF. BUT I THINK THAT THE VERY PROCESS INDICATES THAT WE DON'T KNOW IF THEY BRING THAT MUCH VALUE TO THE CITY. FROM MY PERSPECTIVE,

BASED UPON WHAT WE'RE DOING RIGHT NOW. >> OKAY, SO YOU'RE ASKING THE

PEOPLE. >> WE'RE ASKING FOR THE PEOPLE'S INPUT. YES, YES. YES,

SIR. >> YES, SIR. ANYWAY, I WOULD I'M IN FAVOR OF THE MORATORIUM.

OKAY. THAT'S ALL I WANT TO ASK. >> OKAY. >> THANK YOU, THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ANYBODY WISHING TO SPEAK. GOING ONCE. ANYBODY WISHING TO SPEAK. ONE MORE TIME. OKAY. WE WILL NOW CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. AND WE WE DON'T. THIS THIS AGENDA ITEM DOESN'T REQUIRE ACTION. THIS IS THE FIRST OF TWO PUBLIC HEARINGS. SO THERE'S NO VOTE TAKEN TODAY. BUT WE CAN STILL ENTERTAIN QUESTIONS FOR STAFF AND THE LIKE. SO COUNCIL MEMBER

FERRY. >> THANK YOU, MR. MAYOR. FIRST, I WANTED TO SAY THANK YOU TO EVERY SINGLE PERSON THAT SPOKE TODAY. I AM NEW TO COUNCIL, SO I REMEMBER SITTING IN THAT CHAIR AND COMING TO COUNCIL TO ADVOCATE ON ALL THE THINGS THAT WERE IMPORTANT TO ME AND MY COMMUNITY MEMBERS. SO I COMMEND YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE AND SPENDING YOUR EVENING WITH US.

I TRULY THANK YOU FOR IT AND I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. I WANTED TO PROVIDE ONE CLARIFICATION TO THE SPEAKER WHO ASKED FOR A YEAR LONG MORATORIUM. SO STATE LAW PROHIBITS US FROM DOING MORE THAN A SIX MONTH MORATORIUM, WHICH IN THE PRESENTATION HAS STATED WE HAVE TO DO A 90 DAY AND THEN WE CAN EXTEND IT 90 MORE, AND THEN WE CAN'T EXTEND IT BEYOND THAT, NOR CAN WE'RE ASSERT ANOTHER ONE FOR ANOTHER TWO YEARS AFTER THAT. SO I JUST WANTED TO

[03:20:05]

PROVIDE THAT POINT OF CLARIFICATION JUST SO WE ALL WALK AWAY UNDERSTANDING THE SAME FRAMEWORK THAT WE'RE HELD TO UNDER THE STATE LAW, WHICH SUPERSEDES THE MUNICIPALITY.

AND THEN TO THE OTHER QUESTION THAT WAS JUST ASKED ABOUT THE POSITIVITY, THE POSITIVE EFFECT ON THE CITY. YEAH, I RAN RECENTLY AND I MR. TAYLOR ASKED THE QUESTION ABOUT, YOU KNOW, BEING ASKED THESE QUESTIONS THROUGHOUT ALL OF OUR PUBLIC FORUMS. ONE THING THAT'S BEEN REALLY IMPORTANT TO ME IS WHEN WE TALK ABOUT HOW THEY ARE NEW IN TERMS OF STUDIES, WE DON'T HAVE LONGITUDINAL STUDIES, RIGHT? I DON'T KNOW, A 20 YEAR IMPACT ON AIR QUALITY BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T BEEN THIS DENSE THIS PRESENT FOR TWO DECADES. SO WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LONG TERM IMPACTS, WE DON'T HAVE THOSE STUDIES YET. SO YES, IT IS CONCERNING TO SEE THEM POP UP EVERYWHERE. AND I JUST WANTED TO UNABASHEDLY KIND OF STATE HOW I FEEL ABOUT IT. AND I WILL BE CONTINUING TO SERVE ON THE DEVELOPMENT CODE REVIEW COMMITTEE UNDER CHAIR, COUNCILMAN, COUNCIL MEMBER RUMOHR, AND MYSELF AS VICE CHAIR. YOU KNOW, THAT IS COMING UP TOMORROW ON PNC. LIKE YOU WERE LIKE YOU WERE TOLD PNC MEETS TOMORROW HERE AT THIS DAIS AT 6:30 P.M. AND THEY'LL BE REVIEWING THE CODE CHANGES THAT WE'VE IMPLEMENTED THAT WE HOPE TO GET THROUGH COUNCIL AND PUT THOSE ALONGSIDE WITH THE MORATORIUM. SO I ENCOURAGE YOU TO WATCH THAT MEETING ONLINE IF YOU CAN. AND IF YOU CAN SHOW UP, SHOW UP. IT'S ANOTHER PUBLIC HEARING, BUT YOU CAN SEE THE MORE RESTRICTIVE POLICIES THAT WE'RE PUSHING FORWARD. SO YEAH, AND I'M ALWAYS AROUND TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS. I WILL BE HERE AFTER THIS MEETING, AND I

WELCOME AND APPRECIATE AGAIN, YOUR FEEDBACK. THANKS. >> THANK YOU. COUNCILMEMBER

MAYOR PRO TEM STEPHENS. >> THANK YOU. MAYOR. CITY ATTORNEY, AM I ALLOWED TO ASK THE CROWD JUST FOR A SHOW OF HANDS ON SOMETHING? IF YOU ARE IN SUPPORT OF A MORATORIUM, COULD YOU RAISE YOUR HAND? OKAY, YOU CAN PUT THEM DOWN. IF YOU ARE AGAINST A MORATORIUM, CAN YOU RAISE YOUR HAND? OKAY. THERE WERE SOME PEOPLE THAT DIDN'T RAISE THEIR HANDS, BUT I SAW A LOT OF HANDS THAT WERE RAISED. FOR THOSE WHO DIDN'T SPEAK. I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT WAS ON THE RECORD, BECAUSE I'VE ALSO GOTTEN A TON OF EMAILS, AND I HAVE NOT YET HEARD FROM THE PRO DATA CENTER ACTIVISTS THAT DOESN'T WANT A MORATORIUM.

YOU'RE WELCOME TO EMAIL ME, THOUGH, BUT I JUST HAVEN'T HEARD THAT YET. I THINK THAT THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT DOES UNIFY OUR RESIDENTS, AND THAT IS, QUITE FRANKLY, SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD BE FOCUSED ON RIGHT NOW IS WHAT ARE THE THINGS THAT WE CAN BE DOING THAT BRING PEOPLE TOGETHER INSTEAD OF TEARING PEOPLE APART? THAT'S SOMETHING I'M VERY PASSIONATE ABOUT. I WANTED TO MAKE A NOTE ON A FEW THINGS. FIRST OFF, IF IT WASN'T CLEAR WHEN THIS COMES TO A VOTE IN DECEMBER, I'LL BE VOTING FOR MORATORIUM. I WANT TO REMIND YOU ALL, THOUGH, THAT BECAUSE OF THE RESTRICTIVE NATURE OF HOW THIS IS IMPLEMENTED, IT REQUIRES SIX VOTES FROM CITY COUNCIL. NOT A SIMPLE MAJORITY. REQUIRES SIX VOTES FOR THIS TO HAPPEN. AS COUNCIL MEMBER, FERRY BROUGHT UP PLANNING AND ZONING, WILL ALSO BE DISCUSSING SOME DEVELOPMENT CODE CHANGES TOMORROW. AND YOU KNOW, I'M SUPPORTIVE OF THOSE THINGS, BUT THEY DON'T REALLY FIX THE FULL PROBLEM. I'M IN FULL SUPPORT OF ALL OF THAT. BUT IN SOME WAYS IT'S LIKE TAKING A TEST BEFORE STUDYING FOR THE TEST. AND SO THE PURPOSE OF A MORATORIUM IS TO STUDY WHAT WE CAN BE DOING BETTER. A LOT OF YOU HAVE ASKED FOR A BAN. I DON'T KNOW IF WE CAN HAVE ONE OR NOT. I DON'T KNOW WHAT STATE LAW WILL ALLOW, PARTICULARLY BECAUSE SAN MARCOS, I THINK, HAS IMPLEMENTED A BAN. I THINK AUSTIN HAS. I THINK IT'S WORTHY TO HAVE A PAUSE TO SEE IF THERE ARE ANY TYPES OF POTENTIAL LITIGATION THAT TAKE PLACE. THAT IS A WORTHY REASON TO HAVE SIX MONTHS, NOT ONLY DEVELOPMENT CODE CHANGES, I MEAN. SO YES, THAT IS A PART OF THE SOLUTION, BUT ALSO IN THAT TIME PERIOD, WE HAVE TO GO BEYOND THAT AND ASK OURSELVES QUESTIONS AS COUNCIL MEMBERS, LIKE, DO WE WANT TO OFFER ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT OR TAX INCENTIVES TO DATA CENTERS? A MORATORIUM IS IS TIME FOR US TO DISCUSS THAT AND PASS A RESOLUTION STATING, WE DON'T WANT TO DO THAT AND NOT TO GET INTO THE NITTY GRITTY, BUT COUNCIL MEMBER FERRY, YOU JUST APPOINTED A NEW PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSIONER WHO USED TO SERVE ON THE BOARD AS THE BRIGHTEST PERSON I CAN THINK OF WHO COULD POSSIBLY BE ON THAT BOARD. IT'S WORTHY TO HEAR FROM HER WITH HER EXPERTISE ABOUT WHAT HOW WE CAN GO FURTHER. AND SO I REALLY APPRECIATE YOU ALL BEING HERE. IT REALLY DOES MATTER. SO THANK YOU.

>> COUNCIL MEMBER MOORE. >> I WANTED TO ECHO THE THANKS OF EVERYBODY THAT WAS HERE. I

[03:25:01]

REMEMBER BEING AT THAT DAIS AND OR AT THE PODIUM. AND HONESTLY, I THINK IF I WAS Y'ALL AND I WAS UP THERE, I WOULD STILL BE NERVOUS. SO THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE NERVOUS, YOU KNOW, TOTALLY NORMAL. SO THANKS EVERYBODY FOR TAKING THE TIME TO BE OUT HERE. I DID JUST WANT TO PLUG AGAIN, THE THE PUBLIC HEARING TOMORROW NIGHT AT PLANNING AND ZONING. THOSE ARE THE THE MORATORIUM IS TEMPORARY. AS COUNCIL MEMBER PERRY SAID, THAT'S A STATE KIND OF RESTRICTION ON US, BUT THE CODE CHANGES WILL BE FAR MORE PERMANENT. THEY WOULD HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE PROCESS TO BE CHANGED BY THIS COUNCIL IN ORDER TO CHANGE THOSE AGAIN, SO THOSE WILL BE MORE PERMANENT.

SO I DO ENCOURAGE YOU ALL TO TAKE A LOOK AT THOSE. THE AGENDA IS POSTED ONLINE ALREADY.

YOU CAN GO TO LIKE GOOGLE PUBLIC MEETINGS, FIND THE PLANNING AND ZONING AGENDA AND ALL THOSE ATTACHMENTS ARE THERE. SO YOU CAN TAKE A LOOK AT THOSE BEFORE THE MEETING. IT'LL BE ANOTHER PUBLIC HEARING. SO IT'LL BE LIKE THIS WHERE YOU CAN SIGN UP AHEAD OF TIME OR DECIDE TO SPEAK PARTWAY THROUGH. BUT THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT FOR NOW, WILL WILL HAVE THE MOST LASTING IMPACT ONCE THE MORATORIUM IS UP. BUT THEN AFTER THAT, WE CAN CONTINUE TO LOOK AT WHAT OTHER OPPORTUNITIES THERE ARE TO TO KIND OF WORK ON THIS. THANK YOU

ALL. >> I WANT TO THANK EVERYBODY FOR COMING OUT, BECAUSE IT'S SO INSPIRATIONAL TO ME TO SEE PEOPLE WHO ARE ENGAGED. YOU DON'T KNOW HOW MANY MEETINGS WE HAVE IN HERE WHERE THE ONLY PEOPLE IN HERE ARE STAFF AND US. AND IN SOME WAYS THAT'S SAD BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS GOING ON IN THIS COMMUNITY. BUT I WILL SAY, I APPRECIATE YOUR ENGAGEMENT. I APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS. AND LET'S BE CLEAR THAT WE ARE PURSUING SOME CODES THROUGH OUR SORT OF NORMAL ZONING PROCESS, ENTITLEMENT PROCESS ABOUT RESTRICTIONS AND SOME REQUIREMENTS THAT WOULD BE REQUIRED FOR LIKE SUPS ON LAND. BUT THOSE AREN'T A BAN EITHER.

ALL RIGHT. SO I JUST WANT EVERYBODY TO HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING OF, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO EXPLORE. AND THAT'S WHAT THE MORATORIUM IS HERE TO DO IS TO GIVE US A PAUSE TO HELP US FURTHER LOOK AT WE HEARD TONIGHT AND WE HEARD AN ANSWER THAT THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION, BUT IT REALLY DIDN'T SEEM TO GO THAT FAR. BUT THE MORATORIUM, UNTIL IT'S IN PLACE, PEOPLE CAN STILL CONTACT PEOPLE CAN STILL TRY TO FIND A WAY TO PLACE ANOTHER DATA CENTER HERE. BUT I WILL TELL YOU WHAT YOU ALL HAVE DONE TONIGHT. YOU SENT A VERY CLEAR MESSAGE TO THE COMMUNITY, TO US, THAT THOSE AREN'T THE KIND OF CONVERSATIONS WE WANT TO HAVE, AND IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE HEAR YOUR VOICES. AND IT ALSO HELPS US BECAUSE IT KNOWS THAT WE'RE UP HERE TRYING TO MAKE DECISIONS TO BETTER THE COMMUNITY. AND SO TO HEAR FROM THE COMMUNITY WHAT THEIR THOUGHTS ARE ABOUT THAT YOU JUST YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW, AT LEAST TO ME, AND I THINK I WOULD SPEAK FOR MY COLLEAGUES, IMPORTANT IT IS WHETHER YOU'RE PRO OR CON ON WHATEVER THE ISSUE IS, BUT THAT YOU'RE ENGAGED. AND SO I APPRECIATE YOU COMING OUT. AND I REALLY WANT TO SAY THIS SINCERELY. I APPRECIATE YOU BEING RESPECTFUL DURING THIS TIME BECAUSE IT HELPS US MOVE THROUGH THINGS. IT HELPS PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, COME TO THE PODIUM. AND I WILL SAY THIS, I HAVE BEEN AT THAT PODIUM RECENTLY WITHIN THE LAST 6 TO 8 MONTHS, AND I'VE BEEN SITTING IN THIS CHAIR FOR MANY YEARS IN THE PAST. AND FOR SOME REASON, THAT MIC SEEMS A LONG WAY AWAY. BUT WHEN YOU'RE STANDING AT THAT MIC, IT FEELS LIKE YOU'RE STANDING LITERALLY RIGHT, RIGHT UP HERE IN FRONT OF US. SO THANK YOU ALL FOR FOR YOUR THOUGHTS AND FOR THOSE WHO SIGNED UP, FOR THOSE WHO DIDN'T, AND FOR THOSE WHO JUST DECIDED TO SPEAK AND CAME AND SPOKE CONTEMPORANEOUSLY. THANK YOU FOR THAT AND CONTINUE TO FOLLOW AND CONTINUE TO STAY ENGAGED. AND DON'T HESITATE TO EMAIL US. TALK TO US WHEN YOU SEE US OUT IN THE COMMUNITY. SHARE WHAT YOUR THOUGHTS ARE NOT JUST ON THIS, BUT ON ANYTHING BECAUSE IT'S YOUR CITY AND WE'RE YOUR COUNCIL AND IT'S IMPORTANT THAT ALL VOICES BE HEARD. SO THANK FOR COMING OUT. SO WE'RE GOING TO PROCEED ON TO THE OTHER AGENDA ITEMS NOW. AND IF YOU NEED TO, I'M PROBABLY GIVE ABOUT 30S. IF PEOPLE ARE STAYING, THAT'S GREAT. STAY.

WE'RE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT THE BUDGET. ALL RIGHT. THE BUDGET'S VERY IMPORTANT. SO WE'RE GOING TO GIVE JUST A LITTLE BIT OF TIME FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO TO EXIT TO DO SO.

THANK YOU SO MUCH. HAVE A GOOD NIGHT, YOU TWO. THANK YOU. >> OKAY. WE'RE GOING TO GO AHEAD AND PROCEED ONWARD. AND THANK YOU ALL FOR WHO ARE STILL HERE WITH US TONIGHT. WE'RE

[B. ID 26-1580 Hold a public hearing and receive citizen input on the FY 2026-27 Proposed Budget.]

GOING TO GO ON TO PUBLIC HEARING AGENDA ITEM THREE B, WHICH IS ID 26-1580, WHICH IS HOLD A PUBLIC HEARING, RECEIVE CITIZEN INPUT ON THE FY 2020 627 PROPOSED BUDGET. SO I HAVE A QUESTION I DON'T SEE WE'RE TAKING ANY ACTION ON THAT PARTICULAR AGENDA ITEM. IS THAT

CORRECT? OKAY. ALL RIGHT. >> OKAY. >> GOOD EVENING, MAYOR AND COUNCIL. AMY KASLIK, CHIEF STRATEGIC OFFICER HERE TONIGHT TO PROVIDE YOU AN OVERVIEW OF THE FISCAL YEAR 2627 BUDGET AND RECEIVE PUBLIC FEEDBACK. THIS SLIDE OUTLINES THE PROPOSED TAX

[03:30:09]

RATE FOR FISCAL YEAR 2627. BOTH THE O AND M RATE AND THE DEBT SERVICE RATE DECREASED FROM THE PRIOR YEAR, RESULTING IN A TOTAL PROPOSED TAX RATE OF 0.548485. THE NO NEW REVENUE RATE IS 0.515958. THIS IS THE RATE NEEDED TO COLLECT THE SAME AMOUNT OF REVENUE USING THE SAME PROPERTIES ON THE TAX ROLL LAST YEAR. THIS YEAR, THE PUBLISHED MAXIMUM TAX RATE IS 0.553485 AND IS DESIGNED TO PROVIDE COUNCIL WITH FLEXIBILITY IN THE DECISION PROCESS. IT IS THE SAME AS THE VOTER APPROVAL RATE, WHICH IS THE MAXIMUM RATE ALLOWED TO BE ADOPTED WITHOUT TRIGGERING AN ELECTION. THE CITY MANAGER'S PROPOSED RATE OF 0.548485, WHILE HIGHER THAN THE NO NEW REVENUE RATE, IS LOWER THAN THE VOTER APPROVAL RATE. IN ADDITION, THIS RATE IS $0.05 LOWER THAN THE CURRENT TAX RATE. THIS IS A SAVINGS OF $203 A YEAR TO THE AVERAGE HOMEOWNER. THIS IS A HISTORY OF ASSESSED VALUES AND THE TAX RATE.

CERTIFIED ASSESSED VALUES ROSE TO $26.7 BILLION, WHICH ALLOWS US TO REDUCE OUR TAX RATE WHILE MEETING SERVICE DEMANDS. GENERAL FUND REVENUES ARE PROPOSED AT $233,411,949. THIS INCREASE INCLUDES PROPERTY TAX INCREASES, SALES TAX AND FRANCHISE FEE AND ROI, REVENUE INCREASES. GENERAL FUND EXPENDITURES ARE PROPOSED AT $233,411,949, WHICH IS RESULT IN A BALANCED BUDGET. INCREASES INCLUDE PERSONNEL SERVICES WITH ALL POSITIONS FULLY FUNDED IN FISCAL YEAR 2027, ALONG WITH COMPENSATION ADJUSTMENTS FOR GENERAL GOVERNMENT AND CIVIL SERVICE. TWO EMS LIEUTENANTS ARE ALSO INCLUDED. IN ADDITION, THERE ARE STRATEGIC INVESTMENTS BEING MADE IN VEHICLE REPLACEMENTS, CAPITAL MAINTENANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT. THE FUND BALANCE TARGET IS MET FOR FISCAL YEAR 2627 AND IN THE YEARS BEYOND.

SO HERE'S A SUMMARY OF THE EIGHT INTERNAL SERVICE FUNDS USED TO ACCOUNT FOR SERVICES PROVIDED BY ONE DEPARTMENT TO ANOTHER. THIS INCLUDES CUSTOMER SERVICE, TECHNOLOGY SERVICES, MATERIALS MANAGEMENT, FLEET FACILITIES, RISK ENGINEERING AND ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICES.

THERE IS ONE POSITION FUNDED IN FACILITIES, AND IT IS ENTIRELY OFFSET BY A REDUCTION IN CONTRACTUAL SERVICES FOR HVAC MAINTENANCE. THE TOTAL PROPOSED BUDGET IS $116,419,304. THIS SLIDE SUMMARIZES THE CITY'S 21 SPECIAL REVENUE FUNDS, EACH TIED TO A SPECIFIC REVENUE SOURCE AND RESTRICTED IN HOW IT IS USED. MAJOR FUNDS INCLUDE TOURISM, STREET IMPROVEMENTS, HEALTH, THE CATALYST FUND AND THEN VARIOUS IMPACT FEE FUNDS. THE TOTAL PROPOSED BUDGET IS $110,236,503. NEXT ARE THE ENTERPRISE FUNDS, WHICH ARE SELF-SUPPORTED THROUGH USER FEES. THE ELECTRIC FUND IS PROPOSED AT $499,304,148 IN REVENUES, AND $487,661,431. IN EXPENDITURES FOR A NET INCOME OF $11 MILLION SIX $11,642,718. THIS DOES INCLUDE INCLUDE A PROPOSED 3% RATE INCREASE THAT HAS BEEN DELAYED UNTIL JANUARY. NEXT IS THE WATER FUND. IT HAS A PROPOSED REVENUE OF $61,575,770, AND EXPENDITURES OF $64,749,543. THAT IS A NET LOSS OF $3,173,733, WHICH IS A PLANNED USE OF FUND BALANCE. A 3% RATE INCREASE IS INCLUDED FOR RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL CUSTOMERS, AS WELL AS AN INCREASE IN WHOLESALE RAW WATER RATES. NEXT IS THE WASTEWATER FUND. IT HAS A PROPOSED BUDGETED REVENUE OF $51,278,645, AND EXPENDITURES IN THE AMOUNT OF $51,818,788. THIS IS A NET LOSS OF $540,143. THIS, TOO, IS

[03:35:05]

A PLANNED USE OF FUND BALANCE. A 9% INCREASE IS INCLUDED FOR ALL CUSTOMER CLASSES. NEXT IS THE DRAINAGE FUND. IT HAS A PROPOSED REVENUE AND EXPENDITURES OF FIVE.

$5,915,669. THIS, TOO, HAS A BALANCED BUDGET AND INCLUDES A 5% RATE INCREASE. AND. THIS IS THE FIRST SORRY FEE INCREASE. THIS IS THE FIRST INCREASE SINCE THIS FEES ADOPTION IN 2002. NEXT UP IS THE SOLID WASTE FUND. IT HAS A PROPOSED REVENUE AND EXPENDITURE BALANCED IN THE AMOUNT OF $55,345,497. THERE ARE SEVEN NEW POSITIONS IN THIS FUND THAT ARE NEEDED TO MEET THE DEMANDS OF GROWTH. THERE ARE NO PROPOSED INCREASES FOR THE SOLID WASTE UTILITY. WHEN LOOKING AT THE OVERALL IMPACT OF RATE ADJUSTMENTS AND THOSE RATE ADJUSTMENTS THAT WILL BE EFFECTIVE ON OCTOBER 1ST, THIS WILL RESULT IN AN INCREASE OF $5.94 A MONTH FOR THE AVERAGE HOMEOWNER, AND $8.97 FOR THE AVERAGE SMALL CUSTOMER COMMERCIAL CUSTOMER. THAT WILL INCREASE TO $8.15 PER MONTH FOR THE AVERAGE HOMEOWNER AND $12.34 FOR A SMALL COMMERCIAL CUSTOMER IN JANUARY. AGAIN, BASED ON THAT ANTICIPATED INCREASE IN ELECTRIC UTILITIES. THE LAST OF THE ENTERPRISE FUNDS IS THE AIRPORT FUND. IT HAS A PROPOSED BUDGET OF $2,664,698 IN REVENUES, AND 2,610,182 IN EXPENDITURES. THIS IS A NET INCOME OF $54,516, MAKING THE AIRPORT CONTINUING TO BE A SELF-SUPPORTING ENTERPRISE FUND. NEXT, WE'LL LOOK AT THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM. IT INCLUDES $384.8 MILLION IN PLANNED NEW FUNDING. WE'RE GOING TO COVER THAT FUNDING IN DETAIL ON THE NEXT FEW SLIDES. FIRST UP IS GENERAL GOVERNMENT. IT HAS A CAPITAL PROGRAM OF 48.9 MILLION. THIS INCLUDES FUNDS FOR THE 2023 BOND PROGRAM, FIRE STATION NUMBER TEN FACILITY IMPROVEMENTS, VEHICLE REPLACEMENTS AND TECHNOLOGY IMPROVEMENTS, ALONG WITH FUNDS FOR ROADWAY IMPROVEMENTS. OF THE TOTAL FUNDS, 5.8 MILLION ARE GEO BONDS FOR THE 2023 BOND PROGRAM, 34.9 MILLION ARE CERTIFICATES OF OBLIGATION AND 8.2 MILLION ARE FUNDED THROUGH A VARIETY OF OTHER SOURCES. ELECTRIC HAS 67.9 MILLION CAPITAL PROGRAM TO ADDRESS INFRASTRUCTURE AND CAPACITY NEEDS. OF THAT, 59.5 MILLION IS DEBT FUNDED, 3.5 MILLION IS REVENUE FUNDED, AND 5 MILLION IS FUNDED THROUGH COST PARTICIPATION. WATER HAS 107.9 MILLION. CAPITAL PROGRAM. AGAIN TO ADDRESS INFRASTRUCTURE AND CAPACITY NEEDS. NEARLY ALL OF IT IS DEBT FUNDED, WITH A MAJORITY OF THOSE FUNDS GOING TO PLANT IMPROVEMENTS AND LINE REPLACEMENTS. LOOKING AT WASTEWATER, IT HAS A 100, I'M SORRY, 147.3 MILLION TO ADDRESS INFRASTRUCTURE AND CAPACITY NEEDS, INCLUDING PLANT AND LIFT STATION IMPROVEMENTS, AS WELL AS LINE REPLACEMENTS. 143 MILLION IS DEBT FUNDED AND 3.5 MILLION WILL BE FUNDED WITH REVENUES. DRAINAGE HAS A CAPITAL PROGRAM OF $4 MILLION FOR IMPROVEMENTS TO THE STORMWATER SYSTEM. THE ENTIRE PROGRAM IS FUNDED WITH REVENUE DOLLARS. SOLID WASTE HAS A $12.5 MILLION CAPITAL PROGRAM TO PROVIDE FUNDING FOR THE DESIGN AND ENGINEERING OF THE CITY'S FIRST TRANSFER STATION, AS WELL AS VEHICLES TO ADDRESS SERVICE CAPACITY NEEDS. 5.2 MILLION IS DEBT FUNDED, AND THE REMAINING 7.2 MILLION IS REVENUE FUNDED. THE AIRPORT HAS A TOTAL CAPITAL PROGRAM FOR 2027 OF $100,000, AND THIS WILL BE USED FOR A RUNWAY SWEEPER.

THOSE REVENUES ARE THOSE. THE PROGRAM IS DERIVED SORRY, ENTIRELY OF REVENUE FUNDS. WE

[03:40:01]

WILL BE ASKING COUNCIL TO ADOPT THE BUDGET LATER THIS EVENING. AND WITH THAT, I STAND FOR

QUESTIONS. >> COUNCILMEMBER RUMOHR. >> THANK YOU. THANK YOU, AMY, JUST SOME QUICK QUESTIONS JUST TO HIGHLIGHT A COUPLE OF ITEMS. OKAY. SO THE PROPERTY TAX RATE IS GOING DOWN, CORRECT? CORRECT. HOW MUCH DOES THAT PROPERTY TAX DECREASE TRANSLATE FOR THE

AVERAGE DENTON HOME? >> $203 PER YEAR. >> PER YEAR. WHAT IS THE

PRIMARY DRIVER OF THE PROPERTY TAX RATE DECREASE. >> THE INCREASE IN OUR OVERALL VALUES INCREASING TO 26.7 BILLION. ALLOWED US THEN TO LOWER OUR TAX RATE FOR THIS

NEXT YEAR. >> OKAY. AND WHAT WAS THERE A PRIMARY CAUSE OF THE INCREASED

VALUE? >> ROUGHLY 3 BILLION OF THE INCREASE IN VALUE. SO NEARLY ALL OF THE THREE ALL OF THE INCREASE IN VALUE IS DUE TO THE DATA CENTER.

>> OKAY, THANKS. >> OKAY. YEAH. ALL RIGHT. MAYOR PRO TEM.

>> I JUST I DON'T KNOW WHY I NEVER ASKED THIS QUESTION BEFORE, BUT IF ANYONE KNEW,

YOU'D KNOW IT, BECAUSE. >> I HOPE SO. >> I'M STILL I'M. I'M STILL IMPRESSED BY HOW MUCH YOU'VE MADE MY HEAD HURT FOR THE PAST FEW MONTHS IN THE BEST WAY POSSIBLE. WHEN IS THE LAST TIME? I KNOW IT'S BEEN FOUR YEARS SINCE WE'VE HAD A DECREASE PROPERTY TAX, BUT WHAT? WHAT YEAR? WHEN'S THE LAST TIME WE HAD SOME TAX RATE THAT LOW? ANY

IDEA? >> YEAH. THIS IS THIS IS THE LOWEST LOOKING ALL THE WAY BACK

TO. >> YEAH. BECAUSE I. SAW ALL THE WAY BACK TO 2020. I WAS JUST CURIOUS IF WE WE HAD ANY IDEA THE LAST TIME IT WAS THIS LOW. OKAY. I WAS JUST WONDERING.

IT'D BE COOL TO KNOW, JUST AS A FUN FACT TO THROW AT A RESIDENT. BUT YEAH, THAT'S IT.

>> WELL, HERE'S A FUN FACT FOR YOU. IT WAS $0.68 PROBABLY BACK IN 2016 OR 17. SO I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ALSO BECAUSE WHEN YOU SHOWED THE UTILITY BREAKDOWN, YOU KNOW, THE 4 OR $5 FOR SOLID WASTE WATER AND SO FORTH, THAT THE ELECTRIC PORTION WAS A WAS A DASH. AND THAT'S PRIMARILY BECAUSE THE COUNCIL GAVE DIRECTION TO STAFF THAT ON THIS 3% PROPOSED INCREASE IN ELECTRIC RATES, THAT WE WOULD TOLL THAT TILL, I BELIEVE, JANUARY THE 1ST FIRST PENDING OUR CONVERSATION ON OCTOBER 27TH ABOUT ENERGY FUND BALANCE, PRICING AND ALL THOSE KINDS OF THINGS. SO THAT'S WHY YOU SAW THAT THAT DASH THERE, EVEN THOUGH THE SLIDE SHOWED A 3% INCREASE, WE'VE WE'VE SORT OF SUSPENDED IT UNTIL WE HAVE FURTHER CONVERSATION ABOUT THE UTILITY RATES AND FUND BALANCE AND THINGS SUCH AS THAT. SO I WANT TO JUST MAKE SURE WE LET THE PUBLIC KNOW THAT. AND THEN ALSO IN THE OUT YEARS FOR THESE CAPITAL FUNDING DEPARTMENTS LIKE UTILITIES, BECAUSE WE'VE GOT WHAT WE'RE GOING TO PROPOSE THIS YEAR AND SOME OF THEM NEXT YEAR INCREASE DRAMATICALLY. I MEAN, HUNDREDS OF, YOU KNOW, TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS, MAYBE EVEN A FEW MILLION. ARE THOSE JUST PROJECTIONS? OR IS THAT REALLY ALSO BASED UPON WHAT WE BELIEVE IS GOING TO BE NEEDED IMMEDIATELY FROM PROJECTS THAT WE'RE GOING TO START? I'M JUST I'M JUST CURIOUS. YEAH. IF WE WENT BACK TO THE THE CAPITAL PROGRAMS, LIKE JUST PICK ONE, YOU KNOW, PICK PICKS, SOLID WASTE, NO, NOT SOLID WASTE WASTEWATER, PICK WASTEWATER. YEAH. JUST SO I CAN SORT OF SHOW, OKAY, LIKE WASTEWATER, WE'VE GOT 27, 2027 IS 95 MILLION, 2028 GOES UP TO 216.

AND THEN 2029 IS 302. AND THEN IT TAPERS BACK DOWN. SO IS THAT INDICATIVE OF THE NEW WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANT THE EXPANSION THAT WE WENT TO. AND IS THERE ANOTHER PLANNED NEW ONE HICKORY CREEK. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. OKAY. OKAY. I THINK THAT'S I THINK THAT'S ALL THE QUESTIONS I HAVE. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS BEFORE WE OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING? ALL RIGHT.

SEEING NONE, WE'LL GO AHEAD AND OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. WE HAVE TWO CARDS. WISHING TO SPEAK. MR. NEIL DURANT, IF YOU'LL COME DOWN AND STATE YOUR NAME, YOUR TIME WILL BEGIN.

[03:45:13]

>> NEIL DURANT'S 1108 NORTH LUCAS DENTON, TEXAS. GOOD EVENING. COUNCIL. I WANTED TO DISCUSS THE BUDGET, BUT WITH THREE MINUTES AND 52 SECONDS, IT'S LIKE, YOU KNOW, GOING AT BREAKNECK SPEED. SO I THOUGHT SOME A LITTLE ALLEGORY MIGHT BE HELPFUL. YOU KNOW WHAT THIS IS? ANYBODY GOT ONE? SOMETIMES THEY'RE CALLED FLASH DRIVES OR DRUNK JUMP DRIVES. BUT IT TOOK ME TWO YEARS TO GET THIS. AND IT IS ALL 197,000 LINES OF THE ACTUAL LINE ITEM BUDGET OF THE CITY OF DENTON. THIS NEEDS TO GO UP FOR THE PEOPLE TO SEE. WHAT I FOUND ON THIS WAS NOT ONLY SHOCKING BUT DISMAYING. AND WHEN I TRIED TO TALK TO CITY COUNCIL AT THAT TIME, AND FOR THE LAST TWO YEARS, THE ANSWER HAS BEEN NOBODY CALLS BACK. COUNCILMEMBER STEVENS, YOU ARE AN EXCEPTION. THANK YOU. NEVERTHELESS, THERE IS 197 LINE THOUSAND LINES IN THIS ONE.

EVERYBODY SHOULD HAVE A LOOK AT THIS. WHAT WE ARE DOING ARE PASSING BUDGETS WITH PRETTY PICTURES, LOTS OF NUMBERS AND NO EXPLANATIONS. OUR BUDGET IS BLOATED. IT IS TOP HEAVY, IT IS OPAQUE, AND IT FAILS TO ACCOUNT FOR MANY OF THE MOST BASIC ACCOUNTING RULES THAT ARE NASCENT. I WITH TWO MINUTES AND A HALF LEFT, I CAN'T GO INTO EACH ONE OF THOSE. BUT IF YOU BEGIN TO LOOK AT THIS, EVEN A CURSORY EXAMINATION, IT RAISES ALL KINDS OF QUESTIONS. I'LL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE. THE LADY WHO WAS HERE PREVIOUSLY JUST TALKED ABOUT WASTEWATER. I NEVER HAD A PROBLEM WITH THE WASTEWATER PART OF MY BILL, BECAUSE IT WAS ALWAYS ABOUT 5 TO $10, AND NOW IT'S DOUBLE THE AMOUNT OF MY MY WATER BILL FOR I'M PAYING MORE FOR WASTEWATER THAN I AM FOR GETTING THE WATER. HOW DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? BUT THAT'S ONLY ONE OF MANY THINGS.

AND NOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT RAISING UTILITIES YET AGAIN. WELL, I WOULD TELL YOU THAT WE SHOULD PROBABLY TAKE A LOOK AT DOING WHAT DME WAS ORIGINALLY DESIGNED TO DO, AND THAT WAS TAKE THE MONEY INSTEAD OF DUMPING IT INTO GENERAL FUNDS FOR SQUANDERING WITH OTHER LITTLE PROJECTS. IT SHOULD BE USED TO REDUCE THE RATES. FOR THOSE OF US WHO ARE NOT DOING WELL THESE DAYS. AND THERE'S A LOT OF US SUFFERING FROM AN INFLATIONARY VALUE. SO I WOULD I KNOW THIS IS A ALL SET IN STONE AND I'M, YOU KNOW, A DOLLAR LATE OR SEVERAL DOLLARS SHORT AND SEVERAL DAYS LATE. BUT I REMEMBER WHAT AN OLD POLITICIAN ONCE SAID WHO WAS PRETTY GOOD UNITED STATES SENATOR FOR A WHILE AND YEARS AGO WHEN HE SAID, DON'T TELL ME WHAT YOUR VALUES ARE. SHOW ME YOUR BUDGET, AND THEN I'LL TELL YOU WHAT YOUR VALUES ARE. THIS BUDGET SAYS A LOT, AND IT SAYS A LOT. THAT'S VERY, VERY DISTURBING. AND IT STARTS WITH A VERY HARD ANNALISTIC. LOOK AT IT. I WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS THIS MORE WITH MY COUNCIL MEMBERS. I WOULD HOPE TO BE ABLE TO SOMEDAY, BUT I DOUBT IT. SO UNTIL THEN, JUST REMEMBER ONE PERSON WAS SITTING ON THE SIDE OF THE TABLE AND HAD ABOUT ANYWHERE FROM 4 TO 8 STAFF ON THE OTHER SIDE, AND WAS TOOK TWO YEARS TO GET A LINE ITEM OF THE BUDGET TO SEE WHAT IS ACTUALLY GOING ON IN ALL THESE SUMMARIES THAT YOU'RE SHOWN, BUT NEVER EXPLAINED. AND I STILL HAD THEM OUTNUMBERED BECAUSE I SAID, THIS IS MY TAX DOLLARS GOING FOR A BUDGET THAT IS NOT MAKING SENSE. AND THEY HAD TO FORK IT OVER FINALLY. AND THAT TOOK TWO YEARS. SO LET'S THINK ABOUT THIS CAREFULLY AND THINK ABOUT WHAT WE'RE TELLING THE PEOPLE OF DENTON, BECAUSE RIGHT NOW, I WOULD ARGUE THAT OUR BUDGET AT THE PRESENT TEMPLE, AT THE PRESENT STATUS IS TONE DEAF. TONE DEAF TO A LOT OF WHAT'S GOING ON OUT THERE. AND MY TIME

HAS EXPIRED. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. >> THANK YOU. THE NEXT SPEAKER IS CURTIS WELKER. CURTIS. THANK YOU. COME DOWN, STATE YOUR NAME AND YOUR TIME WILL BEGIN. THANK

YOU. >> MY NAME IS CURTIS WELKER. I LIVE IN FLOWER MOUND RIGHT OFF OF ROLLING HILLS OF CROSS TIMBERS. AND I AM HERE TO TALK ABOUT PROPERTY TAXES HERE TODAY.

A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT THAN OUR BUDGET. I'M ACTUALLY AN ALASKAN. I GREW UP IN ALASKA. -40, -50, -60. THE WHOLE NINE YARDS NEXT TO FORT WAINWRIGHT IN FAIRBANKS. SO 110 HERE IS QUITE A SHIFT

[03:50:02]

FOR ME. AND I GAVE UP MY ALASKAN STREET CRED WHEN I TURNED ON THE HEAT IN THE WINTER. THAT HAPPENED A FEW YEARS BACK. SO I CONSIDER MYSELF TEXAN NOW. I OWN A HOME AND I PAY PROPERTY TAXES. SO I'VE COME HERE AND I'M HERE TO SHARE A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THAT. I I'M ACTUALLY RUNNING FOR THE DENTON COUNTY BOARD OF DIRECTORS PLACE TWO, AND I'M HOPING TO DO SOME CHANGES THERE WHEN I GET THERE. IT IS A VOLUNTEER POSITION. YOU MIGHT KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS. AND I'M DOING IT. THE GOODNESS OF MY HEART BECAUSE I AM COMPELLED.

THE REASON WHY I'M COMPELLED IS BECAUSE THE ARB HEARINGS ARE A JOKE. WHO HERE HAS PROTESTED THEIR PROPERTY TAXES RECENTLY? HOW DID IT WORK OUT? PROBABLY PRETTY GREAT. IF NOT, YOU MIGHT BE ON MY SIDE HERE. IF YOU GO THROUGH THE PROCESS AND YOU'RE GOING TO THE ARB HEARINGS, YOU PROBABLY HAVE FIGURED OUT IT'S A KANGAROO COURT. YOU WILL HAVE THREE MINUTES. I HAVE MORE TIME HERE THAN I PROBABLY DO IN THE HEARINGS. YOU GET 15 MINUTES, THEY WILL PRESENT THEIR CASE.

THEY WILL HAVE ALL THE NUMBERS. AND THE JUDGES PRETTY MUCH HAVE THEIR MIND MADE UP. THIS IS NOT GOING TO WORK OUT FOR YOU. THEY'RE ETHOS PASSED THOSE LOGOS HAS PRETTY MUCH NO SHOT.

WHEN YOU GO THROUGH THE ARBITRATION PROCESS. IT HAS CHANGED YEAR AFTER YEAR DRAMATICALLY. I'LL MAKE SOME SPECIFICS ABOUT MY CASE. WHEN I BOUGHT MY HOME EIGHT YEARS AGO OR SO, IT WAS AT THE MEDIAN. THIS YEAR, I'M BEING COMPED AGAINST $1.4 MILLION, SO I'M BELOW 350 NOW, 1.4 MILLION. I'M THE GREATEST REAL ESTATE INVESTOR OF ALL TIME. OR THE PROPERTY APPRAISER BOARD IS INCREASING THE BUDGET DRAMATICALLY ACROSS THE BOARD FOR EVERYBODY. THAT INCREASES THE TAX ROLLS AND THE TAX RATES CAN GO DOWN. BUT THE REASON WHY IS BECAUSE MY HOME THAT I BOUGHT FOR AROUND 350 IS NOW WORTH THEORETICALLY 1.4 MIL.

IT'S NOT. SO YOU GO TO THE ARB HEARING YOU DO YOUR LITTLE CASE, THEY GIVE YOU A PITTANCE NUMBER, THEN YOU GO TO ARBITRATION. I'VE BEEN ARBITRATION TWICE AND I'VE WON TWICE. THAT MEANS BACK TO BACK ARBITRATION CHAMPION THAT TO ME. SO THAT'S ALSO NO FUN. YOU GET A $450 CHECK WHEN YOU WIN, YOU PAY $500 AND YOU WIN. I CAN TELL YOU GUYS HOW THE GAME GOES AND HOW THE INSIDE BASEBALL IS ON THE. I WILL SAY THE TACTICS BEING USED TO STACK IT AGAINST YOU, HOW YOU GO TO ARBITRATION. THEY BASICALLY THROW AWAY THE ENTIRE ARB HEARING. SO AT THE ARB HEARING, IF THEY PRESENT SOMETHING NON-FACTUAL TOUGH. SO YOU GO YOUR ARBITRATION AND NOW THERE'S A WHOLE NEW CASE FOR YOU, AND I CAN TELL YOU ABOUT HOW THE TIME DISTANCE WILL GO ON, THAT I'VE DONE THIS ALL ON MY OWN. I'M NOT A LAWYER. I'M NOT A REAL ESTATE AGENT. I'M JUST SOME GUY WHO DOESN'T LIKE BEING LIED TO. SO WHEN I GO TO HEARING AND THEY LIE TO ME UNDER OATH VERY AGGRESSIVELY, I MIGHT ADD, WHICH I'VE RECORDED AND PUT ON MY WEBSITE, IT'S DENTON TAX.COM. SO IF YOU WANT TO LOOK ME UP AND SEE KIND OF WHAT THESE TRIALS AND TRIBULATIONS ARE FOR ME AND MY NEIGHBORHOOD AND WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE GOING ON IN MY LAST MINUTE. I WANTED TO SHARE WITH SOMETHING TO YOU GUYS THAT WE CAN DO, BECAUSE DENTON COUNTY IS GOING TO SET THE TAX RATE. YOU KNOW, I KNOW MY PLACE ISN'T GOING TO LOWER TAXES, BUT WHAT WE CAN DO IS A HOMESTEAD EXEMPTION. THERE'S OTHER COUNTIES AND OTHER STATES THAT HAVE PASSED THAT HOMESTEAD EXEMPTION. IT GOES DIRECTLY TO THE CITIZENS OF THE TEXAS WHO OWN HOMES. THAT IS MONEY DIRECTLY BACK INTO THEIR POCKETS, AS THE PREVIOUS GENTLEMAN WAS TALKING ABOUT. AND IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW DENTON COUNTY DOES IT. OTHER CITIES HAVE HIGHER HOMESTEAD EXEMPTIONS. THAT IS, AGAIN, A DIRECT DISCOUNT TO EVERYBODY THAT OWNS A HOME, AND IT'S A LITTLE BIT TIGHTER THAN JUST LOWERING THE RATE. I'M NOT HERE TO CHANGE YOUR MIND OR MAKE YOU THINK ABOUT THIS RIGHT NOW, BUT I WOULD HOPE THAT YOU CONSIDER IT IN THE FUTURE BECAUSE AGAIN, THE HOMESTEAD EXEMPTION IS PROBABLY OUR BEST WEAPON. IT CAN GO UP TO 20%. IT'S CURRENTLY 0.5% HERE IN DENTON WITH SOME MINIMUMS. AND I'M NOT GOING TO GO INTO IT IN 10S. BUT THE POINT OF THE STORY IS THE ARB HEARINGS ARE NOT FAIR. CHECK OUT DENTON TAX.COM. I'M TRYING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

THANK YOU GUYS FOR YOUR TIME. >> THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING, RIGHT? IT IS PUBLIC HEARING, RIGHT? YEAH. I LOST TRACK OF MY AGENDA. THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING. ANYBODY WISHING TO SPEAK, PLEASE COME DOWN AND TALK ABOUT THE BUDGET. ANYBODY WISHING TO SPEAK ON THE BUDGET. ONE MORE TIME, SEEING NO MOVEMENT EXCEPT FOR STAFF. WE'LL WE'LL CLOSE THIS PUBLIC HEARING. AND THIS IS, I BELIEVE, INFORMATIONAL ONLY AS WELL. SO WE WILL BE ADOPTING OR CONSIDERING ADOPTION OF IT AND ITEMS FOR INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION FOR A. SO THEN

[C. A26-0007a Hold a public hearing and consider a petition for voluntary annexation of approximately 28.212 acres of land, generally located on the north side of Jim Christal Road, approximately 1,284 feet west of the intersection of N Masch Branch Road and Jim Christal Road, into the City of Denton, Denton County, Texas. (A26-0007a, Lybbert-Rogers-Cole, Sean Jacobson)]

WE'LL MOVE ON TO AGENDA ITEM THREE. CA26-007A HOLD A PUBLIC HEARING AND CONSIDER A PETITION FOR VOLUNTARY ANNEXATION OF APPROXIMATELY 28.212 ACRES OF LAND GENERALLY LOCATED ON THE NORTH SIDE OF JIM CRYSTAL ROAD, APPROXIMATELY 1284FT WEST OF THE INTERSECTION OF NORTH MARSH

BRANCH ROAD AND JIM CRYSTAL ROAD. >> GOOD EVENING, MAYOR AND MEMBERS OF COUNCIL. SEAN JACOBSEN, SENIOR PLANNER HERE TO PRESENT A 26007 A LITTLE BIT ROGERS COLE PUBLIC HEARING. THIS IS THE SECOND STEP IN THE PROCESS OF THIS ANNEXATION

[03:55:05]

TONIGHT. SO AGAIN, THIS IS IN REGARD TO A VOLUNTARY ANNEXATION REQUEST FOR 28.212 ACRES OF LAND ON THE NORTH SIDE OF JIM CRYSTAL ROAD. THE ZONING IN THIS AREA IS PRIMARILY LIGHT INDUSTRIAL. THE FUTURE LAND USE IS PRIMARILY INDUSTRIAL COMMERCE FOR THIS PROPERTY.

REMINDER ON OUR ANNEXATION SCHEDULE. THIS IS STEP TWO. THERE'LL BE NO ACTION TAKEN ON THIS PUBLIC HEARING TONIGHT. THERE WILL BE ONE MORE STEP THAT WILL TAKE TONIGHT. AND THEN WE'LL BE WAITING FOR THAT SECOND READING. WITH THAT, I'M HAPPY TO STAND FOR ANY

QUESTIONS ON PUBLIC HEARING. >> I JUST HAVE ONE. COULD YOU PUT THE SLIDE SHOWING THE CONFIGURATION OF THE PARCEL? THAT ONE? OKAY. THAT'S 28 ACRES. HOW WIDE IS THAT? DO WE KNOW THE DIMENSIONS OF THAT? THE I MEAN, THAT IS A VERY KIND OF NARROW. DEEP. OKAY. ALL RIGHT.

JUST I WAS JUST CURIOUS BECAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE IT'D BE FAIRLY CHALLENGING TO PUT ANY TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT ON THAT UNLESS IT'S I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS BY SCALE, BUT. OKAY. THAT'S OKAY. I WAS JUST CURIOUS IF WE KNEW OFF THE TOP. ALL RIGHT. I DIGRESS. THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING SO I WILL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? SEEING NONE. THANK YOU. APPRECIATE IT. THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING. ANYBODY WISHING TO SPEAK ON THIS ITEM, PLEASE COME DOWN AND STATE YOUR NAME AND YOUR TIME WILL BEGIN. ANYBODY WISHING TO SPEAK ON THIS PUBLIC HEARING. OKAY. ONE MORE TIME. SEEING NO MOVEMENT. ALL RIGHT, WELL, THEN

[D. SRN 26-0002 Hold a public hearing and consider adoption of an ordinance of the City of Denton, Texas, renaming the existing east-west section of Hilltop Road between FM 1830 (Country Club Road) and the existing north-south section of Hilltop Road to Hickory Creek Road, in the City of Denton, Denton County, Texas; providing for severability and an effective date. (SRN26-0002, Street Renaming, Sahar Esfandyari)]

WE'LL MOVE ON TO AGENDA ITEM THREE D, WHICH IS I'D SRN26-0002. HOLD A PUBLIC HEARING AND CONSIDER ADOPTION OF AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF DENTON, TEXAS. RENAMING THE EXISTING EAST WEST SECTION OF HILLTOP ROAD BETWEEN 1830, WHICH IS COUNTRY CLUB ROAD AND THE EXISTING NORTH SOUTH SECTION OF HILLTOP ROAD TO HICKORY CREEK ROAD IN THE CITY

OF DENTON. >> GOOD EVENING, MAYOR AND COUNCIL. MY NAME IS SAHAR ESFANDIARI, SENIOR TRANSPORTATION PLANNER. TONIGHT I'D LIKE TO DISCUSS HILLTOP ROAD RENAMING REQUEST. AS YOU CAN SEE ON THE MAP TO THE RIGHT, THE TARGET ROAD IS IDENTIFIED IN GREEN. THIS IS APPROXIMATELY 900FT OF EXISTING EAST WEST SEGMENT OF HILLTOP ROAD. THIS REQUEST IS A STAFF INITIATED REQUEST BACK IN MAY 2026 BY CAPITAL PROJECTS. SINCE THEY ARE WORKING ON HICKORY CREEK ROAD PHASE THREE. SO THE PURPOSE OF THE STREET RENAMING IS TO ESTABLISH THE CONTINUITY OF STREET NAMES AND AVOID THE DUPLICATION OF THE STREET NAMES.

THIS REQUEST MEETS THE CRITERIA FOR APPROVAL SINCE IT'S. SINCE IT IS ABOUT ESTABLISHING THE CONTINUITY OF THE STREET NAME AND AVOIDING THE DUPLICATION OF THE NAME. ALSO, THIS IS AN ELIGIBLE APPLICATION ACCORDING TO THE CODE OF ORDINANCES, SINCE IT IS SUBMITTED BY CITY STAFF. STAFF ALSO MET THE CRITERIA FOR PUBLIC OUTREACH FOR THIS REQUEST. WE HAD PUBLIC WEBSITE POSTING. WE HAVE MAILED THE NOTICES 60 AND 30 DAYS BEFORE THIS MEETING, AND WE ALSO HAD IN-PERSON AND VIRTUAL MEETINGS, AND WE NEVER RECEIVED ANY RESPONSES IN OPPOSITION OR IN FAVOR OF THIS REQUEST. SO STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THIS STREET RENAMING REQUEST TO CHANGE THE TARGET PORTION OF HILLTOP ROAD TO HICKORY CREEK ROAD, AS IT COMPLIES WITH THE CONSIDERATION FOR STREET RENAMING. UNDER THE ORDINANCE NUMBER 21-2177. OKAY.

>> THANK YOU. THANK YOU. COUNCIL MEMBER HOLLAND QUESTION. >> THANK YOU. WHAT IS THE STREET? AND I KNOW THIS. WHAT IS THE NAME OF THE ROAD BEYOND COUNTRY CLUB ROAD THAT WOULD THAT WOULD CONNECT WITH WITH THE PROPOSED HICKORY CREEK ROAD. BRUSH CREEK. THANK YOU. THAT THAT WON'T THAT WON'T AFFECT BRUSH CREEK. THANK YOU. I KNEW THAT I KNEW THAT. GOLLY.

>> OKAY. ANYBODY ELSE WISHING TO. ANY STAFF WISHING TO. EXCUSE ME. COUNCIL MEMBERS. ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? I SEE. THANK YOU. THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING, SO WE'LL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. ANYONE WISHING TO SPEAK ON THIS ITEM, PLEASE COME DOWN. STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS OR NOT ADDRESS. YOUR NAME AND YOUR TIME WILL BEGIN. ANYBODY WISHING TO SPEAK? JUST A LITTLE ANECDOTE. YOU KNOW WHEN SOMETIMES SOMEBODY WILL MOVE. WHEN I'M SAYING ANYBODY

[04:00:01]

WISHING TO SPEAK. SO I THINK THEY'RE COMING. IT'S LIKE WHEN YOU'RE AT AN AUCTION AND YOU DON'T WANT TO DO ANY MOVEMENT BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO ACT LIKE YOU'RE RAISING YOUR HAND AND BE CALLED ON THAT YOU JUST MADE A BID. SO NOBODY WISHING TO SPEAK. I DON'T SEE ANY MOVEMENT. SO THEREFORE, WE WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. AND I GUESS THIS IS A THIS IS AN

ACTION ITEM. COUNCIL MEMBER HOLLAND. >> JUST THINKING ABOUT.

>> I WAS JUST THINKING ABOUT DRIVING DOWN MALONE AVENUE, AVENUE C, AND I LOVE THE IDEA THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE ONE, ONE NAME ON ON AS MUCH STREET AS POSSIBLE. I HAPPILY MOVE THE

APPROVAL OF THIS ITEM. >> COUNCIL MEMBER FERRY. >> I'LL SECOND.

>> WE HAVE A MOTION A SECOND. LET'S VOTE. PLEASE. MOTION CARRIES FIVE ZERO. WE'LL MOVE

[E. SRN 26-0003 Hold a public hearing and consider adoption of an ordinance of the City of Denton, Texas, renaming the section of the existing Bonnie Brae Street, between Solar Way (north of Roselawn Drive) and South Bonnie Brae Street (north of Vintage Boulevard), to Old Bonnie Brae Road, in the City of Denton, Denton County, Texas; providing for severability and an effective date. (SRN26-0003, Street Renaming, Sahar Esfandyari)]

ON TO PUBLIC HEARING. AGENDA ITEM 3ESRN26-0003. HOLD A PUBLIC HEARING. CONSIDER ADOPTION OF AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF DENTON, TEXAS, RENAMING THE SECTION OF THE EXISTING BONNIE BRAE STREET BETWEEN SOLAR WAY NORTH OF ROSELAWN DRIVE AND SOUTH BONNIE BRAE STREET, NORTH OF VINTAGE BOULEVARD TO OLD BONNIE BRAE ROAD IN THE CITY OF DENTON.

DENTON COUNTY, TEXAS, PROVIDING FOR SEVERABILITY AND EFFECTIVE DATE.

>> GOOD EVENING, MAYOR AND COUNCIL MEMBERS. ESFANDIARI, SENIOR TRANSPORTATION PLANNER.

ANOTHER REQUEST IS TO RENAME BONNIE BRAE STREET. AS YOU CAN SEE ON THE MAP, THE TARGET ROAD IS. ROAD IS IDENTIFIED IN COLORED GREEN. THIS IS AN EXISTING TWO LANE RURAL SECTION OF SOUTH BONNIE BRAE STREET BETWEEN SOLOWAY AND SOUTH BONNIE BRAE STREET, JUST NORTH OF VINTAGE BOULEVARD. THIS REQUEST WAS STAFF INITIATED BACK IN AUGUST 2022 BY CITY OF DENTON CAPITAL PROJECTS. SINCE THEY ARE WORKING ON THE CONSTRUCTION OF NEW BONNIE BRAE STREET PHASE THREE. THE PURPOSE OF THIS STREET RENAMING IS TO AVOID DUPLICATION OF THE NAMES.

THIS REQUEST MEETS THE APPROVAL CRITERIA. SINCE THIS IS ABOUT ELIMINATING THE DUPLICATION OF THE NAMES. ALSO ENHANCE THE EASE OF LOCATION. ALSO PROPOSING THE OLD BONNIE BRAE ROAD MATCHES THE CHARACTERISTICS OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD WITH LARGE ACRES AND RURAL RANCHES. ALSO, THIS REQUEST IS ELIGIBLE ACCORDING TO THE CODE OF ORDINANCES, SINCE IT IS SUBMITTED BY CITY STAFF. STAFF MET THE CRITERIA FOR PUBLIC OUTREACH. WE HAD WEBSITE POSTING MAILED NOTICES 6060 DAY AND 30 DAY PRIOR OF THIS MEETING. WE HAD COMMUNITY MEETINGS IN PERSON AND VIRTUAL, AND WE RECEIVED NO RESPONSES IN FAVOR OR IN OPPOSITION OF THIS REQUEST. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THIS STREET RENAMING REQUEST TO CHANGE THE TARGET PORTION OF BONNIE BRAE STREET TO OLD BONNIE BRAE ROAD, AS IT COMPLIES WITH THE CONSIDERATION FOR STREET RENAMING UNDER ORDINANCE NUMBER 21-2177. THANK YOU.

>> OKAY. ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? I DON'T SEE ANY. OKAY. THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING. WE'LL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. ANYBODY WISHING TO SPEAK, ANYBODY WISHING TO SPEAK ON THE PUBLIC HEARING? DO WE KNOW? I MEAN, I'LL ASK QUESTION AFTER ANYBODY WISHING TO SPEAK ON THE PUBLIC HEARING. SEEING NONE, WE'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. HOW MANY HOMES ON BONNIE BRAE DOES THIS MEAN? I MEAN, I LIVE ON BONNIE BRAE, SO IT'S NOT GOING TO IMPACT ME. BUT HOW MANY HOMES IS THIS ACTUALLY IMPACTING ON BONNIE BRAE ITSELF? I KNOW SOLAR WAY AND GOODSON

WAY, BUT DO WE KNOW HOW MANY HOMES? >> 25.

>> 25 OKAY. YOU PROBABLY SAID THAT. >> THERE ARE IDENTIFIED. YEAH.

>> OKAY. >> THEY ARE DIRECTLY IMPACTED ON THIS CHANGE. THERE IS STREET NUMBER IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE. ONLY WE ARE GOING TO ADD THE OLD BONNIE BRAE.

>> SO THERE WON'T BE ANY CORRESPONDING. BECAUSE I'M TRYING TO THINK ON THAT NEW STRETCH, AT LEAST TO ROSELAWN. I DON'T KNOW OF ANY HOMES, AT LEAST NOW THAT ARE BUILT ON THAT. SO THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE EVEN IF IT DOES GET DEVELOPED, THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE ANY DUPLICATION OF ADDRESSES. WHO CONTROLS THAT? I'M JUST CURIOUS WHO CONTROLS THE

ADDRESSING OF PROPERTY. IS IT. >> YES. >> WE HAVE OUR CAPITAL PROJECT

MANAGER WHO IS WORKING ON THIS. CONSTRUCTION OF THE ROADS. YES. >> YES. WE SEE WE SEE THEM OUT

THERE QUITE OFTEN. >> YEAH. GOOD EVENING. I'M ROBIN DAVIS, PROJECT MANAGER

FOR CAPITAL PROJECTS. DINKO. 911 CONTROLS THE ADDRESSING. >> OKAY. OKAY, GOOD.

[04:05:01]

>> SO THERE WAS 25 PARCELS THAT WERE AFFECTED, BUT NOT 25 HOMES. I REALLY COULDN'T TELL YOU HOW MANY HOMES, BUT WE DID DO 25 PARCEL MAILERS. A LOT OF THOSE WERE DUPLICATED. YEAH. PROPERTY

OWNERS. >> YEAH. I WAS GOING TO SAY I THOUGHT 25 WAS A LITTLE HIGH.

AS FAR AS ACTUAL HOMES, BUT OKAY. ALL RIGHT. SO IT'S THEN CODE 911 THAT SETS THE ADDRESS.

YES. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. GOOD DEAL. THANK YOU. APPRECIATE THAT. COUNCIL MEMBER HOLLAND, DID YOU

HAVE A QUESTION? >> YES, SIR. THANK YOU. SO THIS IS GOING TO AFFECT WHAT I KNOW NOW AS BONNIE BRAE FROM ROSELAWN TO THAT RED DOT. RED STRIPE. IS THAT CORRECT?

>> YES. YES. >> AND WILL, WILL THERE BE IF THIS PASSES, WILL THERE BE

SOUTH BONNIE BRAE ROAD AND OLD BONNIE BRAE ROAD? >> YES.

>> NO, SIR. SO THE NEW ALIGNMENT THAT WAS CONSTRUCTED FROM CARBON TO ROSELAWN.

>> IF YOU COULD COME TO THE. >> THE NEW ALIGNMENT. >> SPEAK INTO THE MICROPHONE,

IF YOU PLEASE. >> YES, SIR. >> THE NEW ALIGNMENT THAT WAS CONSTRUCTED FROM CARBON TO ROSELAWN IS A BRAND NEW ALIGNMENT. SO THAT'S THE NEW STREET THAT IS THE CONTINUATION OF SOUTH BONNIE BRAE. SO THAT WILL BE SOUTH BONNIE BRAE STREET. AND THEN OLD BONNIE BRAE ROAD WILL BE FROM. IF YOU SEE IF WE'RE GOING FROM SOUTH TO NORTH, IT'LL BE DOWN HERE NORTH OF VINTAGE. AND IT'S THE OLD TWO LANE RURAL ROAD THAT'S OUT THERE RIGHT NOW. AND IT GOES ALL THE WAY UP TO SOLAR WAY, WHERE THERE'S A CUL DE SAC.

>> SO WHERE DOES THE MAYOR LIVE? >> HE LIVES. ON SOUTH BONNIE BRAE.

>> RIGHT THERE WHERE THEY'VE BEEN BUILDING FOR THREE. NO, I'M RIGHT AT THE AT THE CURVE.

YEAH. >> I KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE. I'M JUST WONDERING WHAT THE NAME OF

YOUR STREET. >> WOULD BE. IT'S GOING TO. >> STILL BE SOUTH BONNIE BRAE.

>> YEAH. YEAH. >> SO HE'LL HAVE BONNIE BRAE TO THE FRONT AND OLD BONNIE BRAE

TO THE BACK. >> JUST DOWN THE SIDEWALK. >> SO THEY DON'T CONNECT, RIGHT.

IF THAT HELPS. >> YEAH. THEY RUN MORE OR LESS PARALLEL. OKAY. I DON'T LIKE

THAT. >> WELL, OKAY. I'VE GOT SOME OTHER.

>> THE WAY THAT THIS CAME ABOUT WAS HISTORICALLY THE THE RESIDENTS OUT THERE, THE LIFELONG RESIDENTS OUT THERE DID NOT WANT THE OLD BONNIE BRAE ROAD NAME TO CHANGE. THEY WANTED IT TO BE OLD BONNIE BRAE. THEY WANTED IT TO BE BONNIE BRAE. AND SO THEY HAVE A LOT OF RANCHES OUT THERE. HORSE RANCHES, JUST BIGGER LOTS. AND THEY WANTED THEIR ROAD TO STAY.

BONNIE BRAE. BUT WE COULDN'T DO THAT WITH THE NEW ALIGNMENT, BECAUSE THAT IS THE CONTINUATION OF SOUTH BONNIE BRAE. THAT IS BONNIE BRAE ALL THE WAY UP TO 77. SO THIS WAS OUR COMPROMISE. AND IT BECAUSE THERE IS NO DUPLICATING ADDRESSES OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT ON THE NEW SEGMENT. THERE SHOULDN'T BE ANY ISSUES WITH ANY ANY MAILERS. IT'S KIND OF THE EASIEST WAY FOR PEOPLE TO GET THEIR ADDRESS CHANGED BECAUSE THEY'RE JUST ADDING THE NAME OLD IN FRONT OF THEIR STREET NUMBER OR IN IN FRONT OF THEIR STREET.

>> AND I'M THE ONLY PERSON THAT THINKS THAT'S THINKS THAT'S GOING TO NOT BE CONFUSING. OLD

BONNIE BRAE, BONNIE BRAE. >> OLD BONNIE BRAE ROAD AND SOUTH BONNIE BRAE STREET. OKAY.

RIGHT NOW, THERE'S NO OTHER HOUSES ON SOUTH BONNIE BRAE THAT HAVE THE SAME NUMBERS.

THERE'S NO HOUSES THERE ON THE SEGMENT OF SOUTH BONNIE BRAE STREET THAT WE JUST BUILT.

THERE'S NO HOMES THERE. OKAY. SO WHENEVER THEY'RE ADDRESSED, THEN CALL 911 PROBABLY WOULD NOT GIVE THEM THE SAME DUPLICATING STREET NUMBERS AS OLD BONNIE BRAE ROAD HAS.

>> OKAY. I THINK THIS IS CONFUSING. I CANNOT SUPPORT THIS. THANK YOU.

>> COUNCILMEMBER MORE. >> APPRECIATE IT. ROBIN. I KNOW THAT THE THE GREEN THE ONE THAT'S GOING TO BE OLD BONNIE BRAE HAS BEEN USED AS A BIKE ROUTE TO STAY OFF OF THE BUSY ROAD. YES. WILL THERE STILL BE BIKE ACCESS FROM THE SIDE PATH? THE NEW SIDE PATH THAT'S BEING

BUILT THAT CONNECTS TO THIS OLD BONNIE BRAE? >> YES, ACTUALLY, FROM BONNIE BRAE STREET. YOU GO. YOU STAY ON THE TEN FOOT SIDE PATH, AND IT TAKES YOU THROUGH TO THE CUL DE SAC AREA, AND THEY'LL BE EMBLEMS DIRECTING THEM TO USE THAT PATH, AND IT WILL TAKE

THEM THROUGH THE OLD RURAL ROUTE. >> OKAY, SO THERE'S LIKE A RAMP AND EVERYTHING TO FEED THEM. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THAT'S ALL I HAD. THANK YOU.

>> SO, COUNCILMEMBER HOLLAND, I UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW, I'VE TALKED WITH SOME NEIGHBORS OUT THERE, AND EVEN THOUGH IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE ANYBODY SUBMITTED ANY CARDS OR RESPONSES TO YOUR LETTERS, DID YOU HAVE IN PERSON? DID YOU HAVE ANYBODY THE IN PERSON MEETING OR THE VIRTUAL MEETINGS? I MEAN, DID ANYBODY SHOW AGAIN IN THE IN PERSON MEETINGS ON

AUGUST 17TH? >> NO, NO ONE SHOWED UP TO THE IN PERSON MEETINGS. I DID HAVE ONE RESIDENT CONTACT ME JUST BY PHONE. IT'S THE GENTLEMAN WITH THE TOW TRUCK. YES. AND HE DID HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT THE BUSINESS NAME CHANGE AND EVERYTHING OR THE ADDRESSING CHANGE. AND HE DIDN'T WANT IT NAMED RENAMED AT ALL. HE WANTED IT TO STAY SOUTH. BONNIE BRAE.

AND WHEN I EXPLAINED THAT THE NEW ALIGNMENT IS THE CONTINUATION OF SOUTH BONNIE BRAE, THAT WE COULDN'T DO THAT. THEN HE UNDERSTOOD AND HE WAS HE WAS SATISFIED THAT IT WOULD

[04:10:01]

STILL BE OLD BONNIE BRAE ROAD, BECAUSE IT DOESN'T REQUIRE THEM TO CHANGE EVERYTHING, LIKE CHANGING IT TO A COMPLETELY NEW STREET NAME THEY FELT WOULD BE VERY DIFFICULT.

>> AND I HEAR THAT. BUT SO BECAUSE I THINK WHAT I HEARD YOU SAY WAS LIKE, IF HIS ADDRESS IS 123, IF IT BEFORE THE ALIGNMENT, IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN 123 SOUTH BONNIE BRAE.

RIGHT. WHEREAS NOW IT'S GOING TO BE ONE, TWO, THREE OLD BONNIE BRAE ROAD. IS THAT WHAT I'M UNDERSTANDING? HOW DOES THAT HOW DOES ALL THAT CHANGE OCCUR? I MEAN, DOES IT HOW DOES THE POST OFFICE FIND OUT ABOUT IT? DO THEY HAVE TO PUT IN CHANGE? IS THIS AN AUTOMATIC THING THAT HAPPENS, OR DO PEOPLE HAVE TO PUT IN A CHANGE OF ADDRESS CARD? HOW DO HOW

DOES THAT CHANGE OCCUR? >> I MEAN, SAHARA MIGHT KNOW, BUT IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT ONCE THIS IS APPROVED, WE NOTIFY THE POST OFFICE THAT THERE'S A NEW ROAD NAME. WE RENAME THE ROAD WITH STREET SIGNS, WE MAKE GOOGLE MAPS AWARE, AND THE ROAD NAME TAKES PLACE. AND THEN AS THEY BEGIN TO TO ADDRESS LETTERS, THEY JUST ADD THE WORD OLD IN FRONT OF BONNIE BRAE. AND THE SOUTH JUST KIND OF DROPS OFF. WE DON'T HAVE A NORTH BONNIE BRAE,

RIGHT. >> BUT IT WOULD BE UP TO THE RESIDENTS THEN, LIKE IF THEY'RE HAVING IF THEY WANT THEIR MAIL SENT TO THIS NEW ADDRESS, THEY'VE GOT TO GO THROUGH THE PROCESS OF CHANGING ALL THAT WITH THEIR VENDORS, WITH THEIR CREDITORS, WITH THE AND THOSE

KINDS OF THINGS. YES. >> AS THEY DO THOSE THINGS, YEAH, THEY WOULD CHANGE IT.

>> ALL RIGHT. OKAY. COUNCILMEMBER HOLLAND. >> I'M SORRY. SO IT'S OLD

BROWNIE, OLD BONNIE BRAE STREET. >> NO, IT'S OLD BONNIE BRAE ROAD BECAUSE IT'S A TWO LANE

RURAL ROADWAY SECTION. >> OKAY. RUN THE TAPE BACK BECAUSE THE MAYOR JUST CALLED IT OLD, OLD BONNIE BRAE. OLD BONNIE BRAE ROAD. THE CONFUSION STARTS IMMEDIATELY.

>> YOU MEAN I REFERRED TO IT AS BONNIE BRAE STREET? >> YES, SIR.

>> OKAY. WELL, I CERTAINLY CAN UNDERSTAND THAT MISTAKE. I MEAN, IT IS CONFUSING. I'M NOT GOING

TO SIT HERE AND SAY IT'S NOT. >> AND YOUR PACKAGES WILL BE AT THE UPS DEPOT IN. FORT WORTH.

RIGHT. BECAUSE THEY CAN'T FIND YOU. >> YEAH, YEAH. OKAY. OKAY. YEP.

OKAY. COUNCIL MEMBER RUMOHR. >> THIS MIGHT BE A OR IT COULD BE A CHARLIE QUESTION, I DON'T KNOW. WHAT IS THE ALTERNATIVE HERE? SO IF IF IT'S LIKE, OH, THIS IS TOO CONFUSING.

>> WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY SUGGESTIONS FOR MANY OF THE RESIDENTS FOR A DIFFERENT NAME.

IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT BACK IN LIKE 2010, 2012, WHEN THIS PROJECT WAS BEING PLANNED, THAT WAS ONE OF THE ONE OF THE REQUESTS BY, BY THE PEOPLE THAT WERE, THAT WERE GIVING UP RIGHT AWAY, THAT WERE PART OF THE PROJECT, YOU KNOW, PLANNING PHASE OF IT, THAT THEY WANTED IT TO REMAIN A RURAL SECTION, AND THEY DIDN'T WANT A CONNECTION TO NEW BONNIE BRAE BECAUSE THEY WANTED IT TO STAY KIND OF QUIET AND NOT HAVE PEOPLE CUTTING THROUGH TRAFFIC.

SO THERE WAS NEVER ANOTHER SUGGESTION THAT WAS PROVIDED. >> SO THE ALTERNATIVE TO NOT CHANGING THE NAME HERE WOULD BE TO CHANGE THE NAME ON THE NEW SEGMENT. SO THEN YOU WOULD HAVE SOUTH BONNIE BRAE, SOUTH BONNIE BRAE, AND THEN IT CHANGES TO SOMETHING ELSE. AND IT'S THE

SAME ROAD. >> THE THROUGH STREET THAT GOES ALL THE WAY FROM 77 AT BONNIE BRAE DOWN TO VINTAGE WOULD NOT BE BONNIE BRAE ALL THE WAY THROUGH.

>> RIGHT. SO THE WHOLE OTHER SECTION, THE MAIN BONNIE BRAE, WOULD HAVE TO HAVE A NAME

CHANGE, BASICALLY. >> OR AND THERE'S NO CONNECTION. THERE'S NO CONNECTION TO THE EXISTING SOUTH BONNIE BRAE FROM WHAT IS SOUTH BONNIE BRAE NOW? THERE'S NO CONNECTION TO IT.

>> ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. >> YEAH. AND IT WOULD IT WOULD WIND UP BEING, AS YOU SAID, IF YOU RENAMED THE SEGMENT FROM PAVON DOWN TO ROSELAWN AND THEN AGAIN FROM ROSELAWN DOWN TO. IT WOULD BE THE SAME AS AVENUE C, MALONE AND J GO, IN A SENSE. BUT NO, I UNDERSTAND, I UNDERSTAND COUNCIL MEMBER HOLLAND I DO AND I IT'S IT'S REALLY A VERY CHALLENGING SITUATION, BUT I THINK, IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, WHEN THIS PROJECT WAS FIRST BORN, THERE WAS ALWAYS THIS UNDERSTANDING OR AT LEAST REPRESENTATION THAT THAT SEGMENT WOULD HAVE TO BE RENAMED. NOW, WHAT IT RENAMED TO THAT WASN'T NECESSARILY, I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS DECIDED AT THE TIME. SO THEN WHEN THE POST OFFICE IS NOTIFIED, IT'S NOT LIKE THEY'RE GOING TO THE MAIL.

OKAY. I'M JUST LOOKING AT IT. PRACTICALLY SPEAKING, THE NAME CHANGE OCCURS, THE SEGMENT GETS FINISHED. WE DO ALL THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE TO DO TO CHANGE THE NAME. AND ALL THIS MAIL IS COMING TO PEOPLE AT ONE, TWO, THREE SOUTH BONNIE BRAE STREET, WHICH IS WHAT IT WAS. WHAT

HAPPENS? >> IT STILL GOES TO THE EXISTING RESIDENT THAT LIVES ON ONE, TWO, THREE OLD BONNIE BRAE ROAD. BUT BECAUSE THERE'S NOT A ONE, TWO, THREE SOUTH BONNIE BRAE STREET THAT DOESN'T EXIST, THERE'S NO DUPLICATION IN STREET NUMBER ON SOUTH BONNIE

[04:15:03]

BRAE STREET. AND SO KNOWING THAT THERE'S ANOTHER ROAD CALLED OLD BONNIE BRAE THAT IS PARALLEL TO THIS, THEY WOULD JUST GRAVITATE TO THE OLD BONNIE BRAE ROAD.

>> OKAY. YEAH, THAT'S. >> AND JUST TO, TO REAFFIRM WHAT ROBIN WAS SAYING. SO SO THE CITY OF DENTON DOES OUR ADDRESSING WHEN IT COMES FORWARD, SOMEBODY DOES A PLAT, WE ADDRESS THE PLATS, AND THEN WE WORK WITH THE POST OFFICE TO NOTIFY THEM OF THE ADDRESSES.

SO WE HAVE A GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH THE POST OFFICE. SO CERTAINLY WHEN WHEN THIS NAME CHANGE, IF IT MOVES FORWARD, WE'LL COORDINATE WITH THEM, LET THEM KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON AND AND TALK WITH THE POSTMASTER IF WE NEED TO, JUST TO, TO LET THEM KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THE, THE NAME CHANGE AND THE ROADS BECAUSE THERE'S NO TO MAKE SURE THERE'S NO ISSUES IN

THE TRANSITION. >> BECAUSE A LOT OF THAT HAS TO DO WITH THE CARRIER. I MEAN, THE CARRIER HAS TO, NUMBER ONE, KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON AND THEN BE WILLING TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY CAN FIND THAT ACCOMMODATION, WHICH THERE'S NOTHING TO SAY ANYTHING ABOUT CARRIERS. BUT I UNDERSTAND BECAUSE WE'VE HAD SOME, YOU KNOW, INTERESTING SITUATIONS WHERE IT WAS CLOSED IN FRONT OF US. SO BUT OKAY, BUT I REALLY DON'T THE THE ONLY ALTERNATIVE IS IF THIS FAILS IS TO THEN RENAME THAT SEGMENT, THEN TAKE IT TO SOUTH BONNIE BRAE AGAIN ON THE OTHER SIDE OF ROSELAWN, AND THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO MAINTAIN THEIR SOUTH BONNIE BRAE STREET INSTEAD OF BEING OLD SOUTH BONNIE BRAE ROAD. IS THAT MY UNDERSTANDING? OKAY.

>> YES, OR WE WOULD HAVE TO COME UP WITH ANOTHER NAME FOR OLD BONNIE RAILROAD.

>> OKAY. SO WHICH. >> WE NEVER. WE WERE JUST TRYING TO KEEP THE. WE WERE JUST TRYING TO KEEP THE WISHES OF THE RESIDENTS THAT THAT LIVE THERE.

>> I CAN TELL THEM. >> NOW, LORD, IT'S REALLY NOT EVEN GETTING LATE. WE'RE OKAY.

ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU SO MUCH. IT'S JUST SORT OF A REALLY. I MEAN, THE OTHER ONE YOU HAD DIDN'T LOOK LIKE THE HICKORY CREEK. DIDN'T LOOK LIKE THERE WAS A WHOLE LOT OF HOUSES THAT

WERE AFFECTED AND THOSE KINDS OF THINGS. >> THERE REALLY ISN'T THAT MANY

HOMES THAT ARE ADDRESSED. IT'S I THINK THERE'S LIKE SEVEN. >> I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT. YEAH, YEAH, I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT. SURE. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, COUNCIL MEMBER

RUMOHR. >> I'D LIKE TO MOTION APPROVAL. >> ALL RIGHT. MAYOR PRO TEM SECOND. ALL RIGHT, LET'S VOTE ON THE BOARD, PLEASE. AYE. MOTION CARRIES FOUR ONE. ALL

[A. ID 26-0564 Consider adoption of an ordinance of the City of Denton, Texas, adopting the fiscal year 2026-2027 Annual Program of Services and the Capital Improvement Program (Budget) of the City of Denton, Texas, for the fiscal year beginning on October 1, 2026 and ending on September 30, 2027; appropriating funds from available resources; ratifying all prior transfers made under the direction of the City Manager pursuant to Article VIII, section 8.07 of the city charter of the City of Denton; requiring City manager to file a copy of the budget with the City Secretary, Denton County Clerk, and Texas Comptroller, and ensuring the record vote, budget and cover page is posted on the city’s website; and declaring an effective date.]

RIGHT. THAT CONCLUDES OUR PUBLIC HEARING ITEMS. SO NOW WE'LL GO ON AND CONTINUE WITH ITEMS FOR INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION. AGENDA ITEM FOUR A WHICH IS D26-056. FOR IS CONSIDERATION OF. CONSIDER ADOPTION OF AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF DENTON, TEXAS. ADOPTING THE FISCAL BUDGET 2026 THROUGH 2027. ANNUAL PROGRAM OF SERVICES AND THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM. ARE WE GOING TO GO THROUGH THAT WHOLE PRESENTATION AGAIN?

>> ONLY IF YOU WANT TO. >> OKAY. ONLY IF YOU WANT. YEAH. >> ALL RIGHT. SO I ASSUME I ASSUMED AS MUCH. GOOD EVENING, MAYOR AND COUNCIL. AMY CATHOLIC, CHIEF STRATEGIC OFFICER, PRESENTING THIS ITEM AGAIN. THE SAME ITEM THAT WAS PROVIDED AS PART OF THE PUBLIC HEARING. THE NEXT FOUR ITEMS ON THE AGENDA ARE RELATED TO THE AND I APOLOGIZE. LET ME CLOSE THIS ONE. ARE RELATED TO THE ADOPTION OF THE BUDGET. THE FIRST IS FOR THE BUDGET ITSELF.

THE SECOND ITEM IS APPROVAL OF THE TAX RATE. THE THIRD ITEM IS APPROVAL OF THE TAX ROLLS, WHICH IS A REQUIREMENT OF TEXAS CODE AND ALLOWS THE COUNTY TO MAIL TAX BILLS. THE FINAL ITEM IS THE RATIFICATION OF THE BUDGET, WHICH IS REQUIRED WHEN THE PROPOSED BUDGET WILL RAISE MORE REVENUE FROM PROPERTY TAXES THAN THE PRIOR YEAR'S BUDGET. I WOULD SAY WITH THAT, I'LL STAND FOR QUESTIONS. BUT FUN FACT FOR YOU. SETH HARRELL, OUR BUDGET MANAGER, DID SOME QUICK RESEARCH. THE LAST TIME THE TAX RATE WAS LOWER WAS 2004 AT 0.54815.

>> OKAY. THANK YOU. SO 22 YEARS. YEAH. OKAY. RIGHT. IN THE HEYDAY OF THE BIG BOOM. AND THEN ON THE EVE OF THE BIG CRASH. OKAY. SO THESE THESE WILL ALL BE VOTED. THESE WILL ALL BE VOTED ON SEPARATELY. AND I UNDERSTAND JUST AS SOME HOUSEKEEPING AGENDA ITEM B IS GOING TO REQUIRE THREE MOTIONS AND THREE SEPARATE VOTES. AND I BELIEVE THERE'S THERE'S BEEN A HANDOUT THAT GIVES THE MOTION. AND SO WHEN Y'ALL MAKE A MOTION ON B, THEN WE'LL NEED THOSE THREE SEPARATE ONES. OKAY. SO WE ARE ON AGENDA ITEM FOR A COUNCIL. MAYOR PRO TEM.

[04:20:08]

>> CAN I, I SIGNED UP TO SPEAK AS WELL. CAN I DO THAT FIRST? SURE. BUT 2004 YOU SAID. RIGHT.

>> THAT'S CORRECT. >> I DON'T EVEN THINK I WAS BORN THEN. THAT'S CRAZY.

>> DON'T FLATTER YOURSELF. I DON'T. >> THINK I DON'T THINK ANY OF US WERE BORN THEN. I'M JUST GOING TO GET MY THANK YOUS OUT OF THE WAY NOW. BECAUSE WE HAVE A LOT OF THINGS TO DO. BUT. AND I KNOW I'VE DONE IT A LOT THROUGHOUT THIS PROCESS, BUT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE ALL OF STAFF'S WORK. AND SO THANK YOU FOR ALL THE PRESENTATIONS ONCE AGAIN. I DON'T THINK WE CAN THANK YOU ENOUGH. YOU JUST KILLED IT. I MEAN, JUST THROUGHOUT THE PAST FEW WEEKS. THANK YOU SO MUCH. ANOTHER PERSON IS JUSTIN IN THE ROOM? THANK YOU SO MUCH. I, I I'VE BOTHERED YOU SO MUCH WITH ALL MY EMAILS OVER THE. AND YOU'VE RESPONDED TO ALL OF THEM TO DIRECT EVERYTHING TO APPROPRIATE STAFF MEMBERS. AND SO I, I JUST WANTED TO GIVE YOU THAT CREDIT FOR. I'M SURE YOU'RE SICK OF SEEING MY EMAIL ADDRESS COME ACROSS. AND SO THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR WORK. THANK YOU TO ALL OF CMO AND THE DIRECTORS FOR THIS. THIS BUDGET AND, AND TO CITY MANAGER OGDEN. THANK YOU AGAIN. WHEN WE FIRST STARTED TALKING ABOUT ALL THIS, AND I HOPE YOU TAKE THE VICTORY LAP YOU DESERVE THROUGHOUT ALL OF THIS, BECAUSE WE ACCOMPLISHED SO MUCH TOGETHER AS A TEAM WITH THINGS THAT MAYBE A LOT OF US DIDN'T THINK WERE POSSIBLE. TWO NEW EMS LIEUTENANTS, MORE FUNDING FOR COMMUNITY EVENTS THAN WE ALL THOUGHT. A CURRENT PAUSE ON THE ELECTRIC RATE. I KNOW I'M MISSING THINGS, BUT BECAUSE THERE'S SO MUCH THAT WE ACCOMPLISHED THROUGH THIS AND ALL OF MY COLLEAGUES, I SAID THIS EARLIER TO YOU ALL TODAY IN A DIFFERENT SETTING, BUT THIS WAS ARDUOUS AND DIFFICULT AND CHALLENGING AND FRUSTRATING. AND I THINK THAT'S EXACTLY THE WAY IT SHOULD BE, BECAUSE IT MEANS THAT WE'RE ALL TALKING TO EACH OTHER AND. FINDING REALLY GOOD SOLUTIONS. AND SO I THINK EVERYONE SHOULD BE PROUD OF THEMSELVES. AND CITY MANAGER, WE COULD NOT HAVE DONE IT WITHOUT YOU. YOU INHERITED A LOT AND YOU SHOULD BE VERY PROUD OF YOURSELF FOR THAT WORK. AND SO WITH THAT, I MOVE TO ADOPT THE 2026 2027 BUDGET AS

PRESENTED. >> OKAY. COUNCIL MEMBER. PERRY. >> DEFINITELY DRINKING FROM A FIRE HYDRANT THE LAST THREE MONTHS. I CAN ECHO THAT. AND THE 1% INCREASE TO FIRE. TO ADD TO WHAT YOU SAID TO FUNDING THE MAJORITY OF ALL THE EVENTS THAT WE LOVE DOWN DOWNTOWN AND ACROSS OUR TOWN. AND WITH THAT, I SECOND THIS MOTION. THANK YOU. AND THANK YOU, JUSTIN, FOR

ANSWERING ALL OF MY EMAILS TOO. >> OKAY, SO WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND ON AGENDA ITEM FOR A LET'S VOTE, PLEASE. MOTION CARRIES FIVE ZERO. WE'LL MOVE ON TO AGENDA ITEM FOUR B. I'D

[B. ID 26-0565 Consider adoption of an ordinance of the City of Denton, Texas, levying the ad valorem property tax of the City of Denton, Texas, for the year 2026, on all taxable property within the corporate limits of the City on January 1, 2026, and adopting a tax rate of $0.548485 per $100 of valuation for 2026; providing revenues for payment of current municipal maintenance and operation expenses and for payment of interest and principal on outstanding City of Denton debt; providing for limited exemptions of certain homesteads; providing for enforcement of collections; providing for a severability clause; and providing an effective date.]

26-0565. TAX RATE ADOPTION LEVY. CONSIDER. ADOPTION OF ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF DENTON, TEXAS.

LEVYING THE AD VALOREM PROPERTY TAX OF THE CITY OF DENTON, TEXAS FOR THE YEAR 2026 ON ALL TAXABLE PROPERTY WITHIN THE CORPORATE LIMITS OF THE CITY ON JANUARY 1ST, 2026, AND ADOPTING A TAX RATE OF 0.0.548485 PER $100 OF VALUATION FOR 2026. SO WE HAVE THIS WILL REQUIRE UNANIMOUS VOTE. IT REQUIRES FIVE MEMBERS REQUIRED FOR APPROVAL. AND THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE. AND IT ALSO REQUIRES THREE SEPARATE MOTIONS AND THREE SEPARATE VOTES. AND THE MOTIONS ARE AT EACH COUNCIL MEMBERS. CHAIR. SO COUNCIL MEMBER PERRY.

>> THANK YOU, MR. MAYOR. THE FIRST MOTION IS I MOVE THAT THE PROPERTY TAX RATE BE INCREASED BY THE ADOPTION OF A TAX RATE OF 0.548485, WHICH IS EFFECTIVELY A 6.3% INCREASE IN

THE TAX RATE. AND TO APPROVE ITEM 26-0565. >> ALL RIGHT. IS THERE A SECOND?

MAYOR PRO TEM. >> SECOND. >> SO I HAVE TO SAY THIS. OKAY.

THIS IS STATUTORILY REQUIRED LANGUAGE. OKAY. SO WHEN IT SAYS IT SAYS WE'VE GOT EFFECTIVELY A 6.3% INCREASE IN THE TAX RATE THAT'S BASED FROM THE NO NEW REVENUE TAX RATE CALCULATION.

SO SOME OF YOU ARE WONDERING, WE'RE HAVING A FIVE CENT TAX DECREASE. AND HERE WE'RE MAKING

[04:25:02]

A MOTION FOR SAYING IT'S TAX INCREASE. IT'S LEGISLATIVE UNDERSTAND IT. I'M NOT DISPUTING IT. I'M NOT DISAGREEING WITH IT. I JUST WANT TO PROVIDE A LITTLE BIT OF CONTEXT TO THAT. SO WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. I BELIEVE WE HAD A MOTION IN A SECOND.

AND SO LET'S VOTE PLEASE. WE HAVE UNANIMOUS APPROVAL OF FIVE ZERO. OH NO WAIT. OH YEAH. WE GOTTA HAVE THREE SEPARATE VOTES. OKAY. YES, SIR. SO WE'VE GOT TO HAVE TWO MORE MOTIONS AND TWO

MORE VOTES. SO COUNCIL MAYOR PRO TEM. >> I MOVE TO APPROVE AN

INTEREST IN SINKING RATE OF 0.316344. >> COUNCIL MEMBER MOORE.

>> I SECOND. >> LET'S VOTE FOR THE SECOND MOTION IN AGENDA ITEM THREE B.

DO THE MOTIONS AGAIN. OKAY. IF YOU'VE MADE YOUR THE MOVEMENT OR THE SECONDER PLEASE. THANK YOU ALL. MOTION CARRIES FIVE ZERO. THEN WE HAVE THE LAST OF THE MOTION FOR AGENDA ITEM 4BI

WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION COUNCIL MEMBER HOLLAND. >> I MOVE TO APPROVE A

MAINTENANCE AND OPERATIONS RATE OF 0.232141. >> COUNCIL MEMBER FAIRY.

>> I SECOND. >> LET'S VOTE ON THE THIRD MOTION OF AGENDA ITEM FOUR B.

[C. ID 26-0566 Consider adoption of an ordinance of the City of Denton, Texas, approving the 2026 tax rolls; and providing an effective date.]

MOTION CARRIES FIVE ZERO. THEY WILL NOW MOVE ON TO AGENDA ITEM FOUR C I'D 26-0566. CONSIDER APPROVAL OF AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF DENTON, TEXAS, APPROVING THE 2026 TAX RULES EF.

COUNCILMEMBER PERRY. >> A MOTION TO APPROVE THE ITEM AS PRESENTED. OKAY.

>> DO WE HAVE A SECONDER? COUNCILMEMBER RUMOHR. >> I'LL SECOND.

>> ALL RIGHT. WE HAVE A SECOND. SO LET'S VOTE FOR AGENDA ITEM FOUR C. AGENDA CARRIES. MOTION

[D. ID 26-0567 Consider adoption of an ordinance of the City of Denton, Texas, ratifying the adoption of the fiscal year 2026-2027 Annual Program of Services and the Capital Improvement Program (Budget) of the City of Denton, Texas, for the fiscal year beginning on October 1, 2026, and ending on September 30, 2027 when the budget will raise more revenue from property taxes than last year’s budget; and providing an effective date.]

CARRIES FIVE ZERO. THEN WE HAVE AGENDA ITEM FOUR D WHICH IS D26-0567. IT JUST SIMPLY SAYS WE'RE GOING TO VOTE AGAIN FOR WHAT WE JUST AGREED TO RATIFYING THE ORDINANCE.

COUNCIL MEMBER MOORE. >> I MOTION TO APPROVE THE ITEM AS PRESENTED.

>> OKAY. AND COUNCILMEMBER PERRY. >> I SECOND.

>> ALL RIGHT. LET'S VOTE PLEASE. MOTION CARRIES FIVE ZERO. OKAY. SO WE'VE GOT ONE MORE ITEM FOR

[P. A26-0007b Conduct the first of two readings of an ordinance of the City of Denton, Texas annexing approximately 28.212 acres of land, generally located on the north side of Jim Christal Road, approximately 1,284 feet west of the intersection of N Masch Branch Road and Jim Christal Road, into the City of Denton, Denton County, Texas; providing for a correction to the City map to include the annexed land; and providing for a savings clause and an effective date. (A26-0007b, Lybbert-Rogers-Cole, Sean Jacobson)]

INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION WHICH IS AGENDA ITEM P, WHICH IS A 26-0007B. CONDUCT THE FIRST OF TWO READINGS OF AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF DENTON, TEXAS, ENHANCING APPROXIMATELY 28.212 ACRES OF LAND. SO WE DID THE PUBLIC HEARING ON THE ANNEXATION. NOW WE'RE READING THE ORDINANCE, BUT THIS DOES DOES THIS REQUIRE ACTION? NO ACTION. OKAY. ALL RIGHT.

>> GOOD EVENING. ONE LAST TIME, MAYOR AND MEMBERS OF COUNCIL ON THIS ITEM. A 267 B ROGERS COLE.

SO AGAIN, AS STATED, MAYOR, THIS IS THE FIRST OF TWO READINGS STATUTORILY REQUIRED FOR THE ANNEXATION PROCESS. WE'VE GONE OVER THE SITE LOCATION. THE INTENT HERE, THE ANNEXATION SCHEDULE. I DO NEED TO ACTUALLY READ THIS CAPTION. SO THIS IS AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF DENTON, TEXAS, ANNEXING APPROXIMATELY 28.212 ACRES OF LAND GENERALLY LOCATED ON THE NORTH SIDE OF JIM CRYSTAL ROAD, APPROXIMATELY 1284FT WEST OF THE INTERSECTION OF NORTH MARSH BRANCH ROAD AND JIM CRYSTAL ROAD INTO THE CITY OF DENTON. DENTON COUNTY, TEXAS, PROVIDING FOR A CORRECTION TO THE CITY MAP TO INCLUDE THE ANNEXED LAND AND PROVIDING FOR A SAVINGS CLAUSE AND AN EFFECTIVE DATE. AS NOTED, WE WILL HAVE THE SECOND READING IN NOVEMBER, AND

[04:30:03]

I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE. >> OKAY. ANY QUESTIONS?

>> OH GO AHEAD. IF I MAY ALSO NOTE, WE DID A LITTLE MATH. CHARLIE HELPED ME OUT HERE ON THE MAP. THAT PROPERTY IS ABOUT 300FT WIDE, BUT ABOUT 3200FT LONG.

>> OKAY. ALL RIGHT. OKAY. THANK YOU. APPRECIATE THIS. REAL TIME DATA GATHERING. IT'S FANTASTIC, ISN'T IT? I MEAN, WOW, THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH. I APPRECIATE THAT, SERIOUSLY. IT'S VERY HELPFUL AND JUST INFORMATIVE. THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH FOR THAT EFFORT. COUNCIL MEMBER HOLLAND.

>> WHERE IS IT? >> OH WE DON'T WE DON'T HAVE A MOTION ON HERE.

>> DID I MOTION. >> WELL, THERE'S NO ACTION REQUIRED ON.

[5. CONCLUDING ITEMS]

>> THIS ONE. >> YES YES YES. SO WE ARE NOW AT CONCLUDING ITEMS. SO LET ME JUST SAY IF WE WERE A GAMBLING COUNCIL I PROBABLY WOULD HAVE WON ON WHAT TIME WE THOUGHT WE WOULD GET OUT OF HERE TONIGHT. WE HAD IT ANYWHERE FROM, WHAT, 11:00 AT NIGHT TO SO. AND I REALLY I REALLY GIVE THE CREDIT TO THE PEOPLE HERE TONIGHT. AND THEN THE ONES IN THE PUBLIC HEARING REALLY JUST WERE RESPECTFUL AND VERY EFFICIENT. AND I REALLY THANK THEM AGAIN.

COUNCIL MEMBER RUMOHR. >> MAYOR, I, I THINK I SAID 10 P.M. SO I'M GOING TO DO A